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Julian Gough — The Egg and The Rock | Episode 249
15 segments available
Julian Gough sums up his career as follows: “ I just sit in my room and write.” Well, I think being an acclaimed children’s author, novelist, radio and stage playwright, poet and top ten Irish musician is a little bit more impressive than he’s letting on… Oh, and I didn’t even mention that he also wrote the ending to the computer game Minecraft! His current project, The Egg and The Rock, puts all of these to shame. This book, which Julian is writing in public on Substack, seeks to do no less than redescribe the universe, arguing that is not some random, dead, purposeless sack of chemicals, but instead a living, evolving organism. Julian joins me to discuss why the arc of human evolution bends towards man-made black holes, the hidden catastrophe at the heart of materialist science, the strange life of subterranean ice aliens, and MUCH more! This was such an interesting conversation - I can’t wait for you to hear it. For the full transcript, episode takeaways, and bucketloads of other goodies designed to make you go, “ Hmm, that’s interesting!”, check out our Substack - https://8ca54796.streaklinks.com/CJPd0z7cXCh07hc4JAiMaKTC/https%3A%2F%2Fnewsletter.osv.llc%2F. Important Links: - Julian’s Website - https://www.juliangough.com/ - The Egg and The Rock - https://theeggandtherock.com - Julian’s Twitter - https://x.com/juliangough Show Notes: 0:00:00 Intro 0:00:58 “I just sit in my room and write” 0:05:37 Why write a book in public? 0:10:25 Materialism & science’s hidden catastrophe 0:18:52 “The scientific method is in conflict with human nature” 0:28:31 The faulty assumption at the heart of cosmology 0:37:38 Big bangs, supermassive black holes & Darwinian evolution: A 30 minute masterclass in cosmological natural selection 1:09:00 “I'm predicting very, very large amounts of life in this universe.” 1:15:20 The strange life of subterranean ice-aliens 1:20:48 Could we spot man-made black holes? 1:22:10 Bringing consciousness into physics 1:32:17 Pulling back the curtain 1:39:46 Julian as World Emperor Books & Articles Mentioned: - The New Inquisition: Irrational Rationalism and the Citadel of Science; by Robert Anton Wilson - Against Method: Outline of an Anarchistic Theory of Knowledge; by Paul Feyerabend - What the Tortoise Said to Achilles; by Lewis Carroll - The Life of the Cosmos; by Lee Smolin - What Is Life? The Physical Aspect of the Living Cell; by Erwin Schrödinger - Isis Unveiled: A Master-Key to the Mysteries of Ancient and Modern Science and Theology; by Helena Petrovna Blavatsky - The Bhagavad Gita - Did the Universe evolve? - https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/0264-9381/9/1/016; by Lee Smolin - The Great Filter - Are We Almost Past It? - https://philpapers.org/rec/HANTGF-2; by Robin Hanson
Segments Timeline
The Startup Energy of Science
Julian Gough discusses the initial excitement in scientific fields, comparing them to startups filled with innovative ideas. He highlights how this energy often diminishes as science becomes institutionalized, leading to a corporate hierarchy that can stifle creativity and exploration. Gough emphasizes the importance of maintaining the spirit of inquiry and the dangers of conforming to established norms.
"there's a sort of startup energy to Scientific Fields when it's just a bunch of guys coming up with a bunch of ideas and that's when all the breakthroughs happen then the startups turn into corporatio..."
The Courage to Create in Public
Julian Gough shares his journey as a writer, revealing his decision to write his latest book, 'The Egg and The Rock,' in public. He reflects on the challenges and fears associated with exposing unfinished work to the world, emphasizing the courage required for public creativity. Gough explains how this approach allows for community engagement and feedback, enhancing the creative process.
"with yet another infinite Loops I have been looking forward to talking to today's guest ever since I discovered him my guest today is Julian Goff he I Julian I don't even know how to I I it's going to..."
The Hidden Catastrophe in Materialist Science
In this segment, Gough critiques the materialist worldview prevalent in modern science, suggesting it leads to a hidden catastrophe. He discusses how this perspective can limit scientific inquiry and stifle alternative theories, particularly those that challenge established norms. Gough argues for a more open-minded approach to scientific exploration that embraces diverse ideas.
"really want to talk about your new non-fiction uh book called The Egg and The Rock yes what's very interesting to me well it's very interesting to me in many many regards but the first thing that grab..."
Conflict Between Science and Human Nature
Julian Gough explores the inherent conflict between the scientific method and human nature. He argues that the rigid structures of scientific inquiry often clash with the fluidity of human experience and intuition. Gough calls for a re-evaluation of how science is conducted, advocating for a more holistic understanding of the universe that incorporates human perspectives.
"yeah rert sheldrick uh who I've had on the podcast told me once that there is a huge group of scientists like himself right who are basically in hiding and and he says they're in hiding because of the..."
Cosmology's Faulty Assumptions
In this segment, Gough critiques the foundational assumptions of cosmology, arguing that they are flawed and limit our understanding of the universe. He discusses the implications of these assumptions on scientific theories and the need for a paradigm shift in how we approach cosmological questions. Gough emphasizes the importance of questioning established beliefs to foster true scientific progress.
"think one of the things through all the rabbit holes I uh Dove down that I've learned is I don't know almost anything yeah sure none of us do we like we're like we're mammals running around domates as..."
Masterclass in Cosmological Natural Selection
Julian Gough provides a comprehensive overview of cosmological natural selection, discussing its implications for understanding the universe. He connects concepts from Darwinian evolution to cosmology, illustrating how life and the universe may evolve in tandem. This segment serves as a masterclass on the intersection of biology and cosmology, challenging listeners to rethink their understanding of existence.
"the the challenge is I'm also a fan of Charles Dodson better known as Lewis Carroll uh who who wrote uh about this extensively um if you haven't read his very short piece what the tortois said to Achi..."
Predictions of Life in the Universe
Gough shares his bold predictions regarding the existence of life throughout the universe. He discusses the implications of these predictions for our understanding of biology and cosmology, suggesting that life may be more prevalent than previously thought. This segment encourages listeners to consider the vast possibilities of life beyond Earth and the significance of these ideas in the context of Gough's work.
"I and uh you've set the table nicely for uh for our listeners and viewers for a fuller explanation of the cosmological natural selection Theory um and I I'm familiar with it from Lee smallin work uh i..."
The Strange Life of Subterranean Ice Aliens
In a fascinating exploration, Gough introduces the concept of subterranean ice aliens, discussing their potential existence and implications for our understanding of life. He speculates on the characteristics and environments of these hypothetical beings, challenging conventional notions of life and intelligence. This segment invites listeners to expand their imagination regarding extraterrestrial life forms.
"cosmological natural selection is a kind of a three-stage version I'm saying our universe has three kind of rounds of reproductive success each of them is a is a is an evolutionary breakthrough that h..."
Spotting Man-Made Black Holes
Julian Gough delves into the intriguing possibility of detecting man-made black holes. He discusses the scientific and ethical implications of such technology, raising questions about humanity's role in the universe. This segment encourages listeners to consider the future of scientific advancements and their potential impact on our understanding of reality.
"to the well-known fmy Parx right uh which is yes H for those who don't know and I would guess that virtually all of our listeners and viewers know about the FY Paradox but if you don't it's like okay ..."
Bringing Consciousness into Physics
In this thought-provoking segment, Gough discusses the integration of consciousness into the realm of physics. He explores the implications of consciousness on our understanding of the universe, challenging traditional scientific paradigms. Gough advocates for a more inclusive approach to science that recognizes the significance of consciousness in shaping reality.
"yeah so so what would that imply about because the third type of black hole that you you uh infer is those that are created by technology right yeah and would you under the theory that you're developi..."
Pulling Back the Curtain on Science
Gough reflects on the need to reveal the underlying structures and assumptions within the scientific community. He emphasizes the importance of transparency and open dialogue in scientific discourse, advocating for a shift towards a more inclusive and collaborative approach. This segment serves as a call to action for scientists and thinkers to engage in meaningful conversations about the future of science.
"because we haven't even touched on uh where Consciousness enters and that's that's been an obsession of mine for decades right I think I'm going to have to do that in a second book that's that that be..."
Julian as World Emperor
In a humorous and imaginative conclusion, Gough playfully considers the idea of being a 'World Emperor.' He reflects on the responsibilities and challenges that come with such a title, using it as a metaphor for the influence of ideas in shaping society. This segment invites listeners to think critically about leadership, creativity, and the impact of individual voices in the world.
"me is how getting back to kind of the fearful kind of authoritarian view of modern science right now the these guys are Your Heroes and you're just conveniently avoiding the fact that they all went a ..."
Incepting Universal Wisdom
Julian Gough shares profound insights from a meditation experience, where he received two key pieces of advice: 'accept everything' and 'do not ration your love.' He emphasizes the transformative power of these ideas and how they can inspire individuals to act on their greatest thoughts. This segment encapsulates Gough's philosophy on embracing life and love fully.
"think I think you will love some of his his stuff I think I've read a tiny bit but I definitely haven't read the the the the main stuff no I'm getting the hook from my producers here and we haven't ev..."
The Gold of New Ideas
In this engaging conclusion, Gough expresses his enthusiasm for exploring new ideas in cosmology and invites others to join him in this intellectual adventure. He reflects on the richness of the universe and the importance of collaboration in uncovering its mysteries. This segment serves as a rallying cry for creative thinkers to contribute to the evolving discourse on the nature of existence.
"are you going to incept I actually have a very clean simple answer to this question because when I was a a young man I was I it took me a long time to grow up it really took me a very long time to gro..."
The Living Universe
Gough concludes with a powerful assertion that the universe is a living entity, evolving and gaining self-awareness. He critiques the traditional view of a lifeless cosmos and argues that humanity's understanding of the universe must evolve to reflect its complexity. This segment encapsulates the essence of Gough's work and his vision for a more profound understanding of existence.
"Your Love wow those are fabulous kind of reminds me of Amore fat right uh that that falls in line very nicely with accept everything Julia this has been this is actually surpassed my expectations whic..."