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The FBI's Secret Weapon Was A Journalist — Neil Strauss
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Sign Up for "Writing Examples" and Learn From The Best Writing of All Time: https://www.writingexamples.com Neil writes about all the icky, taboo things you’re not supposed to say out loud. As the author of ten New York Times Bestselling books, he’s built his career on getting celebrities like Rick Rubin, Kevin Hart, and Jenna Jameson to open up in a way that most writers are too afraid to do. But don’t get it twisted — “being vulnerable” doesn’t mean “word-vomit your deepest, darkest secrets to the world.” It means sharing who you truly are in a way that’s interesting to other people. In this episode, Neil reveals how to be vulnerable in your work, the right way. He breaks down story structures that hook your reader. He reveals how to cultivate your life to support your writing. And he shows you how to say things in public that most people would be too scared to share with their closest friends. If you’re scared of sharing your work in public, this episode is for you. Come learn how to synthesize your vulnerability in a way that resonates with other people. WRITE OF PASSAGE: Want to learn more about the next class for Write of Passage? https://writeofpassage.com/enroll SPEAKER LINKS: Website: https://www.neilstrauss.com/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/neilstrauss Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/neil_strauss Books: https://www.amazon.com/Neil-Strauss/e/B001H6NT1I Blog: https://www.neilstrauss.com/blog/ PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://writeofpassage.com/how-i-write Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:35 "You can't say that" 00:03:30 Sharing secrets 00:06:00 The public eye 00:07:50 Vulnerable 00:10:25 Critics and haters 00:11:15 Kevin Hart 00:11:55 Vomit drafts 00:17:10 First books 00:17:30 Epiphanies and Eurekas 00:18:40 "To Die For" podcast trailer 00:35:10 Writing worth reading 00:43:00 Trying too hard 00:49:30 Interestingness 00:51:30 Howard Stern 00:56:20 Writing profiles 00:58:50 Observe and notice 01:08:45 Rick Rubin 01:09:30 Editing 01:19:30 Writer's block ABOUT THE HOST: I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. How I Write is a podcast by Write of Passage // Production by Adam Soccolich
Segments Timeline
The Power of Authenticity
Neil Strauss discusses the importance of authenticity in writing, emphasizing the need to share deep, personal truths that resonate with others. He shares Kevin Hart's advice on vulnerability and the necessity of crafting a compelling narrative that hooks readers from the start.
"I'm trying to get something so authentic on the page that people are like, "Oh my God, I can't believe you're telling the truth." There's parts of you that sort of are inside that are like secret..."
Understanding Vulnerability
In this segment, Neil explores the concept of vulnerability in writing, explaining how sharing one's deepest thoughts can connect with others. He reflects on the fear of being seen and the importance of context in storytelling, especially in a world where social media often distorts narratives.
"tune in for this conversation with Neil Strauss. Do you feel like psychologically, you don't have the muscle of resistance that makes you say, "Oh, you can't say that.'" Or do you have it and you..."
The Fear of Sharing
Neil shares his personal experiences with the fear of publishing vulnerable content. He discusses the emotional weight of revealing secrets and how overcoming this fear can lead to a sense of relief and authenticity in writing.
"your second question is I believe in context, which meaning that social media is an out of context machine. It takes things out of context and sensationalize them, and helps people get really de..."
The Burden of Secrets
In this segment, Neil reflects on the burden of keeping secrets and how sharing them can lead to a feeling of being seen and safe. He discusses the paradox of vulnerability and the fear that often accompanies it, particularly in the context of public perception.
"can really share and people can understand. And if someone takes the out of context, it's like, well, there's the context already there in the book. Yeah. I remember I published a piece one time an..."
Navigating Public Perception
Neil addresses the difference between being vulnerable with friends versus in the public eye. He emphasizes the importance of conscious sharing and the potential for narratives to be manipulated, highlighting the need for context in storytelling.
"Yeah, no kidding. And that said though, to speak to that fear, everyone I've ever done a book with has a moment before it's going to come out where they're completely terrified. If they are, you..."
Crafting Meaningful Vulnerability
Neil discusses the distinction between genuine vulnerability and mere emotional outpouring. He stresses the importance of synthesizing experiences into insightful narratives that resonate with readers, rather than simply sharing raw emotions.
"seen in the public eye versus being seen in the eyes of your friends. So I think I'm super open with my buddies, but to be seen in the public eye and then maybe to have those things maybe even be ..."
The Drafting Process
In this segment, Neil outlines his drafting process, describing the first draft as a 'vomit draft' meant for personal expression. He explains how subsequent drafts should be refined for the reader, emphasizing the importance of crafting a compelling narrative.
"think maybe that's the difference. I want to make sure that since people may not have read the work or have the context for this, that we're doing it in a conscious way versus an unconscious way. ..."
The Role of the Critic
Neil elaborates on the importance of separating the writing process from criticism. He explains how the final draft should be polished with the critic's perspective in mind, ensuring that the work is both authentic and engaging.
"I call it, so the first draft is for you I say. The first draft is just for you. You're doing it just for you, no one's ever going to see it. And then it's out of your brain. It's somewhere on th..."
Finding the Right Narrative
Neil shares insights from his book 'The Truth,' discussing the challenges of finding the right narrative and the importance of adapting the story to fit the book's direction. He emphasizes the need to listen to the story as it unfolds.
"Yeah. The hater, the critic, exactly. So this is super important for writers. I find that all these questions of what are people going to think or what am I going to get attacked for this? Or is..."
The Creative Process
In this segment, Neil reflects on the creative process, comparing it to sculpting. He discusses the importance of staying engaged with the work and allowing the narrative to evolve naturally, rather than forcing it into a predetermined structure.
"Yeah, sure. So I did a book called The Truth, and it was literally about my questions of is monogamy natural? And what's the right relationship style for us? And everything else. And so I underwen..."
Embracing the Unfinished
Neil draws a parallel between the creative process and the unfinished statues of David, highlighting the beauty in imperfection. He emphasizes the importance of embracing the messy aspects of creativity as part of the journey.
"telling you what it wants to be. And that happens really early. So I always start a book with an intention and an idea of what I want it to be. And eventually I'm just helping the book that wants ..."
The Unfinished Statues of Creativity
Neil Strauss uses the metaphor of Michelangelo's unfinished statues to illustrate the creative process. He emphasizes that the initial drafts of writing can often feel rough and unrefined, much like the incomplete sculptures. This segment highlights the importance of embracing the messy stages of creativity before achieving a polished final product.
"that person with a vulnerability essay. Once it really gets going, it's almost like puzzle pieces, certain pieces fit in certain pieces. Yeah. I want to go back to that first draft idea because w..."
John Lennon’s Writing Wisdom
Neil discusses John Lennon’s advice on completing creative work, emphasizing the importance of staying immersed in the thought process until a piece is finished. He reflects on the challenges of maintaining focus and the sacred energy of inspiration that can be fleeting if not captured immediately.
"a very good metaphor for the creative process. Yeah, I always do use that metaphor. It's funny, interesting, I guess a lot of people do because it makes sense. You have this block of marble and y..."
Harnessing Epiphanies in Writing
In this segment, Neil Strauss shares how epiphanies manifest in his writing process. He explains the significance of capturing those moments of inspiration and how they often lead to solving problems within a narrative. Neil emphasizes the need to document ideas immediately to preserve their essence.
"I didn't realize that. Yeah. So is that what you do? How do you think about that when writing a book? You just stay in the thought process of it. You keep your head in the creative questions of th..."
The FBI's Call: A Writer's Journey
Neil recounts a pivotal moment when he received a call from the FBI, asking him to train intelligence agents in seduction techniques. This unexpected request sets the stage for a deeper exploration of storytelling and the unique intersection of journalism and espionage.
"Yeah. And if you can't write it, just record it on your phone. That's what I do. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And so it's true. When it's there and you think you're going to remember it, you won't rememb..."
Crafting Compelling Audio Stories
Neil discusses the nuances of storytelling in audio formats, particularly for his podcast. He emphasizes the importance of pacing and how to structure a narrative to maintain listener engagement. This segment highlights the creative decisions involved in making audio storytelling effective.
"FBI. The caller wanted me to fly to Washington, DC and train several dozen intelligence agents. As a writer and journalist, I was confused. "Train them in what?" I asked. His answer, "Seduction." ..."
Building Suspense in Storytelling
In this segment, Neil explains how to build suspense in storytelling by carefully controlling the flow of information. He shares insights on how to keep the audience engaged through strategic pauses and the layering of different voices to enhance the narrative.
"you're in control of the pacing. So in my memory of what I just heard, and I don't know that this is exactly what it's like, but there's a pause after, "In 2011." And then a huge pause that goes..."
The Art of Editing for Impact
Neil reflects on the editing process of his podcast, focusing on how he trims content to enhance the storytelling experience. He discusses the importance of pacing and the strategic placement of pauses to maintain energy and engagement throughout the narrative.
"rewrite that and what were you going for? I went back to the experimenting of thinking where do I begin this? Where do I begin telling the story of what this podcast is about? And by the way, thi..."
The Russian Seduction Spy
Neil introduces the concept of a Russian seduction spy, revealing how the Russian government employs seduction as a tactic. This segment builds intrigue as Neil sets the stage for a deeper exploration of espionage and the complexities of human relationships.
"Latest, the game details his journey into the secret world of pickup artists. He knows how to do it, he's here to... And to my complete shock, the man on the phone informed me that the book was r..."
Creating Emotional Resonance
Neil discusses the importance of emotional resonance in storytelling, particularly in the context of his podcast. He emphasizes the need for authentic dialogue and the impact of real conversations on the audience's connection to the narrative.
"Yes, yeah, that's it. I think the important thing to discuss with writing and everything else is I give things an energetic listen. And even as I'm listening now, there's a little place where th..."
Seduction as a Weapon
In this gripping segment, Neil reveals how seduction can be weaponized, sharing insights from a military-trained seduction spy. He discusses the chilling implications of using attraction as a means to manipulate and control, setting the stage for a deeper exploration of the darker aspects of human relationships.
"Yeah. As a journalist, I decided to find out and soon uncovered a ring of Russian models sent around the world with specific instructions. All these girls were sent out into the world and they we..."
The Mechanics of Love
Neil explores the mechanics of love and attraction, discussing how quickly someone can fall in love. He highlights the authenticity of real conversations and the nuances that make interactions feel genuine, emphasizing the importance of capturing these moments in writing.
"I'm Neil Strauss and from Tenderfoot TV, this is To Die For, coming March 26th. Listen for free on Apple Podcasts. How long does it take to make someone fall in love with you? To make someone fal..."
Engaging the Audience with Curiosity
Neil explains how to engage an audience by starting with compelling questions that pique curiosity. He discusses the importance of drawing listeners in with intriguing openings that make them want to learn more about the story being told.
"Right. Can we just zoom out and just walk through the structure of what we just heard? So walk me through from beginning to the end, what were the different parts as you see them? First piece is ..."
Bridging Ideas in Storytelling
In this segment, Neil discusses the importance of bridging different ideas in storytelling. He shares insights on how to connect seemingly unrelated concepts to create a cohesive narrative that captivates the audience and maintains their interest.
"what was that call? Why did you receive a call from the FBI? So another thing about the first sentence is that it always asks a question that the person reading or listening to the first sentenc..."
The Slow Build of Suspense
Neil emphasizes the value of a slow build in storytelling, creating suspense and anticipation. He discusses how to layer information gradually to enhance the impact of the narrative and keep the audience engaged throughout the story.
"stuff is what bridges that. So in other words, you get an interesting opening and then there's this. But what's the bridge? And the bridge is that line where he says, "If you think we're doing thi..."
The Challenge of Conciseness
Neil reflects on the challenges of conveying complex ideas concisely. He discusses the difficulty of distilling a rich narrative into shorter formats while maintaining the essence of the story, highlighting the art of brevity in writing.
"One of the things that I find is that there's the build, the sort of slower staircase of suspense and then a deep slide of ominousness. That is a good way to put it. Yeah, I think that's a better..."
Editing for Clarity and Flow
In this final segment, Neil shares his approach to editing for clarity and flow in his writing. He emphasizes the importance of refining content to ensure that the narrative is engaging and easy to follow, ultimately enhancing the reader's experience.
"that's the structure. It's interesting because it's so much harder to do something short than something long. If you were to say, let's do the 10-minute Neil interview and give you as much value..."
Making Readers Care
Neil emphasizes that the key to engaging writing is starting from the premise that 'nobody cares.' He explains how writers must make their content interesting and compelling enough to capture the reader's attention, focusing on the importance of creating a connection with the audience.
"How do I personally cultivate my life so I can do that writing thing? Yeah. Yeah. I think everyone, I'm sure it's some part of your podcast, everyone has their own schedule that works for them or..."
The Art of the First Line
Neil discusses the significance of crafting captivating first lines in writing. He shares examples of powerful opening lines that draw readers in and explains how to avoid overwhelming them with too much information at once, allowing the story to unfold naturally.
"not only will you handle it once every two days or once every day, whenever you want to do it, but everyone actually gets responded to. You're actually better at it if you systematize it. I want ..."
Building a Compelling Narrative
In this segment, Neil elaborates on the importance of world-building in writing. He explains how the first chapter sets the tone for the entire piece and how writers should focus on creating an engaging introduction that invites readers to explore further.
"walk through. And I just want to double-click on something that you're saying that's very profound, is if you are writing about something that is as large as the United States of America, all yo..."
Avoiding Clichés and Finding Originality
Neil warns against the pitfalls of clichés in writing, emphasizing the need for originality and distinctiveness. He encourages writers to express their thoughts clearly and engagingly, focusing on the depth of perception rather than adhering to traditional writing norms.
"one room's kind of a dud, you'll be like, "Okay, but that next room's probably going to be cool." When you're starting to write a book or an essay, I spend a lot of time either on the first chapte..."
Expressing Yourself Clearly
Neil emphasizes the importance of clear expression in writing over adhering to rigid writing conventions. He shares insights from authors like Cormac McCarthy, who prioritize the purity of expression over grammatical perfection. This segment encourages writers to focus on authentic communication rather than getting bogged down by technicalities.
"Yeah. And I just thought of this as you were speaking, the mistake people make is I'm writing, so I need to be a writer, and I'm not a writer. And what do writers do? But you're really just expr..."
Exploration vs. Pushing in Writing
Neil discusses the difference between exploring ideas in writing and forcing them. He argues that genuine creativity comes from a place of exploration and enjoyment rather than a need to impress. This mindset allows writers to produce more authentic and engaging work, as they focus on what excites them rather than conforming to expectations.
"writing? Because what you're able to do is you do weird things in your life and you ask distinct questions. So there's a lot that you do away from the keyboard. But then when you're sitting at t..."
The Art of a Compelling Introduction
In this segment, Neil shares a memorable introduction he wrote for a piece on Howard Stern, highlighting the importance of starting with an engaging hook. He explains how a strong opening can set the tone for the entire piece and draw readers in, using humor and surprise to create interest and anticipation.
"Yeah. Fair warning to our listeners, this is will pause the children's portion of the program because this is a vulgar first sentence that you wrote, but I think is probably out of all the ones ..."
Writing Profiles: Capturing Essence
Neil Strauss delves into the nuances of writing profiles, focusing on the importance of capturing the essence of the subject. He shares insights on building trust and rapport with interviewees to uncover their humanity. This segment emphasizes the need for observation and connection in creating compelling profiles that resonate with readers.
"relationship between the writer and Howard Stern that we're about to find out. And so we're doing those things. And so it's hard to force these things. It's back to what we said about noticing. ..."
The Importance of Notetaking
Neil discusses his notetaking practices as a writer, emphasizing the necessity of capturing experiences and observations in the moment. He explains how writing down thoughts shortly after an event helps preserve the emotional resonance and details that might otherwise fade from memory. This segment highlights the value of documentation in the writing process.
"Tell me more about writing profiles. You've done so many of them. And what are some of the things that are distinct about writing profiles versus the other kinds of nonfiction writing that you'v..."
Connecting Observations to Writing
In this final segment, Neil explores how writers can make connections between their observations and their writing. He shares techniques for drawing parallels between everyday experiences and broader themes in their work. This approach encourages writers to find inspiration in the world around them, enhancing their storytelling and creative expression.
"of the experience. Oh really? Yeah. So I really remember say The Truth, when I had that commune story that I was writing about with all that drama. And I would just be so tired at night I would j..."
The Importance of Journaling
Neil advocates for keeping a journal to document significant experiences, especially for those in public roles. He explains how journaling can transform personal experiences into compelling narratives, reinforcing the idea that every moment can contribute to a greater story.
"Yeah, I was going to say, there's three. So there's in the moment notes, where I might just write down story of this, story of that. Then I'll go home at night and get the whole thing. And somet..."
Writing with Specificity
Neil discusses the pitfalls of trying to appeal to everyone in writing. He argues that specificity and personal truth resonate more deeply with readers than broad generalizations. This segment emphasizes the importance of authenticity in storytelling and the courage to share unique perspectives.
"and here's what you said. "It is poetry, it is social commentary. It is disturbing, it is compelling. In short, it is art." And I thought that that description was a good description of how I wo..."
The Art of Brutal Editing
In this segment, Neil shares insights on the editing process, highlighting the necessity of cutting unnecessary content to enhance clarity and impact. He references advice from Kevin Kelly about telling stories with honesty and then editing with rigor, illustrating the balance between creativity and precision.
"people, just like the secrets. The secrets that you're sharing, probably a million people are holding a version of those same secrets, like the Carl Rogers quote, like the personal is the univer..."
The Role of Editors in Writing
Neil discusses the critical role of editors in the writing process, emphasizing that effective editing can significantly improve a writer's work. He explains how editors with a stake in the content can provide valuable feedback that enhances the overall quality of the writing.
"Talk to me about editing. Yeah. So I run this writer's workshop just once a week I take. So I just did an exercise with them where I said, "Take that first chopper you work so hard on and then cu..."
Embracing Feedback
Neil addresses the challenges writers face when receiving feedback, particularly from editors. He encourages writers to focus on the underlying issues highlighted by feedback rather than getting defensive about specific suggestions, promoting a mindset of growth and improvement.
"Yeah. It reminds me of, there's a line from Elon Musk where he's talking about the systems in a factory. And he says that one of the biggest things that companies do is they're so quick to add t..."
Finding Common Goals with Editors
In this segment, Neil emphasizes the importance of viewing editors as collaborators rather than adversaries. He discusses how understanding that both the writer and editor share the goal of creating successful work can foster a more productive editing relationship.
"Tell me more about when you're editing, how is your writing routine different? I don't know if there's much of a difference between writing and editing. In fact, I would almost argue that the rev..."
The Value of Unbiased Reading
Neil advises against guiding editors on what to look for in a manuscript, suggesting that they should experience the work as a reader would. This approach allows for more genuine feedback and helps writers understand how their work resonates with an audience.
"wrinkles out. And there's just one stubborn one you're just going over back and forth to get that. And we've all been there before. I find editing to be infuriating actually, at times. There'll b..."
The Necessity of Deadlines
Neil concludes by discussing the importance of deadlines in the writing process. He shares his experience of publishing a newsletter weekly, highlighting how deadlines can drive creativity and productivity, ultimately leading to better writing outcomes.
"instead of resisting, you look for the rules and patterns of what they're noticing. I always ask my editor, "Is there something you notice that recurs throughout?" And it might be as small as sayi..."
Understanding the Editor's Role
Neil Strauss emphasizes the importance of collaboration between writers and editors. He explains that both parties share the same goal of creating a successful work, and that conflicts often arise from misunderstandings. By focusing on the underlying problems rather than the editor's solutions, writers can improve their work and foster a more productive relationship.
"them a book cover or a title that they don't want to have. So again, not everyone's going to be in this position, but I think you're all going to be in the position of being edited in some way i..."
The Art of Receiving Feedback
In this segment, Neil discusses how to effectively receive feedback from editors and peers. He advises writers to allow their readers to experience the work without guidance, which can lead to more genuine insights. This approach helps writers understand how their work resonates with an audience, ultimately enhancing their writing process.
"whether by friends or by editors, oftentimes you're going to get a piece of feedback that you just don't like, that you just feel is horrible and you think they're an idiot. However, the problem ..."
The Power of Deadlines
Neil shares his experience with deadlines and how they can drive creativity. He recounts his time publishing a weekly newsletter and how the pressure of deadlines often led to unexpected and high-quality writing. This segment highlights the importance of structure in the writing process and how constraints can foster creativity.
"I ask that editor to look for? Because you've mentioned some very specific things of is because, stuff like that. But should I ask them to look for those specific copy things or should I say, "H..."
Overcoming Writer's Block
Neil challenges the notion of writer's block, suggesting that it stems from performance pressure rather than a lack of ideas. He encourages writers to focus on self-expression and to push through distractions that hinder their creativity. This segment provides practical advice for overcoming mental barriers in writing.
"Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I had to do a weekly column with the New York Times, and sometimes it was like that morning and nothing to write about. And some of those ended up being like the best ones, bec..."
Finding Ideas Within Reach
In this insightful discussion, Neil explains that often the best ideas are right in front of us. He emphasizes the importance of engaging with others and experiences to gain new perspectives. This segment encourages writers to look inward and recognize the value of their immediate surroundings as sources of inspiration.
"Can we focus on that writer's block piece? Because I think that there's something to that. I think a lot of writer's block is in your first draft, you have the critic of, I think what you would ..."
The Freedom to Write
Neil concludes with a powerful message about the freedom necessary for writing. He shares an exercise designed to help writers break free from limitations and explore their creativity without constraints. This segment encapsulates the essence of writing as a liberating act, encouraging self-expression and exploration.
"by talking to other people. By hey, having an experience that gives me a mirror onto what's right here actually changing my perspective, then I can see it. And I find a lot of my writer's block ..."