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James Bay: Imposter Syndrome, Trauma & Controlling The Voice In Your Head | E166
60 segments available
James Bay is a BRIT-award winning musician who’s sold over 5 million records, and one of the most personal and authentic artists working in the field today. Never afraid to wear his heart on his sleeve in his work, his artistry has helped millions of people articulate feelings in their own heart of love, regret, and friendships made and ended. 00:00 Intro 01:30 Childhood 08:50 Idle time, insecurities & expectations 23:13 Becoming a musician and its learnings 35:06 How did it change your life? 45:10 Your albums and their influence 49:45 Would you change anything? 52:01 Your mental health 01:02:15 The consequences and symptoms of your inner voice 01:15:26 The cost of fame 01:22:54 Your partner 01:29:17 Your latest album 01:40:31 Our last guest’s question James: https://twitter.com/JamesBayMusic https://www.instagram.com/jamesbaymusic/ James’ new album: https://www.jamesbay.com Listen on: Apple podcast - https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast... Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/7iQXmUT... FOLLOW ► Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/steven/ Twitter: https://twitter.com/SteveBartlettSC Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stevenbar... Sponsors: Huel - https://my.huel.com/Steven BlueJeans - https://www.bluejeans.com/ Carpets gifted from Tapi - https://bit.ly/3P10anj Chandelier & Lights gifted from Tom Kirk Lighting - https://bit.ly/3Q6vJxd
Segments Timeline
The Joy of Writing 'Hold Back The River'
James Bay reflects on the excitement of writing his hit song 'Hold Back The River' and the overwhelming joy it brought to his label. He shares his childhood dreams of performing on big stages and the intense desire that fueled his ambition, while also hinting at the unexpected challenges that fame would bring.
"i remember writing hold back the river and everybody at the label jumping for joy and thinking that they had a hit on their hands i dreamt about being on those stages in front of all the people that m..."
Growing Up in Hitchin
James Bay discusses his upbringing in Hitchin, Hertfordshire, describing it as a safe and quiet town. He shares insights into his family dynamics, including his parents' fiery personalities and how they influenced his social skills and confidence as a child.
"but if you are then please keep this yourself [Music] james so you're a 90s baby yeah 1990 same as me 1992. okay what about those early years defined you and the person you would go on to be when you ..."
Parental Influence on Ambition
Bay elaborates on his parents' approach to his interests in music and performance. He describes their encouragement as practical and straightforward, emphasizing the importance of commitment and authenticity in pursuing his passions.
"excitable so i feel that that was going on all the time they had people around all the time and they kind of i suppose inspired me and my brother to sort of be okay in all sorts of social situations a..."
The Pressure of Performance
James reflects on the pressure he felt to excel in various activities during his childhood. He shares his insecurities about being the best at running, drawing, and football, and how these pressures shaped his ambition and drive.
"were you know his dad was flying fighter planes in the second world war most of uh my friends parents parents parents like there's there's another generation usually involved whereas for me it was my ..."
Idle Time and Creativity
Bay discusses the significance of idle time in fostering creativity. He contrasts his mother's insistence on productivity with his belief in the necessity of unstructured time for creative thought and inspiration.
"heroes and or any one of her heroes musically you know my parents are big music fans she said look at what they give it you've got to give it that and without quite saying it she was saying you know y..."
The Guilt of Creativity
James shares his struggle with guilt associated with taking time to be creative. He emphasizes the importance of allowing oneself to simply exist and think, which he believes is crucial for artistic creation.
"they didn't need their kids to get a job they just wanted their kids to be kids and have a nice time and i guess it's not that my parents didn't want me to have a nice time but from like 12 years old ..."
Finding Balance in Creativity
Bay reflects on the balance between enjoying creativity and the pressure to perform. He discusses how societal expectations can create guilt for creatives, and the importance of nurturing a space for ideas to flourish.
"a as a kid you know helping someone a like a you know a corner shop or something he he like heartily believed in that and was trying to instill that in us from clearly you know very early on because w..."
The Weight of Insecurities
James Bay reflects on the insecurities he faced during his childhood, particularly in school where he excelled in sports and arts. He discusses the pressure of maintaining his status as the best and the fear of not living up to expectations, revealing how these feelings shaped his ambition and drive.
"heightened the sense of guilt so it's a strange one to juggle and uh and i find myself fighting against it and that's a that's really inconvenient to what i'm trying to do as a passion and actually fo..."
The Danger of Validation
In this segment, James explores the dangerous territory of seeking validation through achievements. He shares his childhood desire to be recognized for his talents and how this need for external approval influenced his creative pursuits and self-worth.
"about the worries that i had about what if one day i'm not the fastest and what if somebody draws something better than me and i hate to admit that i don't know why i felt those things but i had i had..."
The Gift of Time to Create
James discusses the importance of having time and space to create, reflecting on a recent experience as a new parent. He emphasizes how the gift of time allows for creativity to flourish, despite his tendency to feel guilty about how he spends that time.
"but yeah i wanted to i wanted if if i could be if i could say people think i'm really good at this then i could have a reason for why i should be allowed any amount of time to focus on them and you co..."
Cultural Pressure on Productivity
James shares insights into the cultural pressures surrounding productivity and the negative connotations associated with idle time. He reflects on how these societal expectations shaped his childhood and the perception of laziness among his peers.
"uh and still an hour into that time i knew i was an hour into that time because i looked at the clock i didn't need to but i still carry it uh it's [ __ ] frustrating was there any anyone in your circ..."
Belief in Potential
In this segment, James reflects on the support he received from friends and family regarding his aspirations. He recounts a pivotal moment with a friend who believed in his musical talent, highlighting the importance of encouragement in pursuing one's dreams.
"anybody was doing with idle time they were already being told not to waste it that was a that was yeah in my wider circle as a kid around you know my my family and my family friends and friends of fri..."
The Journey to Music
James shares his journey into music, discussing the early days of learning guitar with friends and the pressures of deciding on a future career. He emphasizes the passion that drove him to pursue music and the emotional connection he felt towards his aspirations.
"you know we were all playing guitars at the same time learning to do this that the other and me and matt were doing our gcses and we were in like a biology class we did the same we had the same scienc..."
The Power of Open Mic Nights
James recounts a transformative experience at an open mic night that led to his discovery by a record label. He reflects on the significance of these early performances and how they shaped his career, emphasizing the importance of perseverance and seizing opportunities.
"question if you called them up is yeah i think they i think they would have believed or hoped that i'd sort of got close maybe even half as close as i've come um yeah and off you go to study music rig..."
Crafting the Perfect Performance
In this segment, James discusses the lessons learned from performing at open mic nights and the importance of honing his craft. He shares how feedback from audiences helped him improve his music and the dedication required to create an engaging performance.
"mean because as you say people look at that and go are [ __ ] so lucky you know but um what does that what has that told you about the nature of how life happens and i guess it's taught me to use the ..."
The Journey of a Musician
James reflects on the journey of becoming a musician, emphasizing the significance of the early, often unnoticed moments that contribute to success. He discusses the importance of practice, dedication, and the emotional connection to music that drives him to improve with every performance.
"work because i didn't have them in the verse and i didn't have them in the chorus but i had them in the bridge and that's why it was all training and so i go home this is when i'd moved to brighton ac..."
Adapting to Audience Feedback
In this segment, James Bay shares insights on how performing in noisy pubs and open mic nights taught him to adapt his music based on audience reactions. He explains that learning what resonates with listeners is essential for any artist, and he candidly discusses the challenges of capturing attention in less-than-ideal environments. This adaptability became a key factor in his growth as a musician.
"they've every right to and and it's how it was always about how i managed in those situations i remember going into noisy pubs that wanted to hold an open mic night at the same time and someone pluggi..."
The Fast Track to Fame
James Bay recounts the whirlwind experience of signing his first record deal and the rapid changes that followed. He describes the excitement and nervousness of transitioning from small gigs to larger stages, emphasizing the support from his record label. Bay reflects on how this swift progression impacted his creative process and the importance of being ready to seize opportunities as they arise.
"it does change to me it absolutely changes the music because until i changed those things i was just playing i was playing something that wasn't because i was often going back to the same rooms not al..."
The Release of His First EP
In this segment, James Bay discusses the release of his first EP, 'The Dark of the Morning,' and the changes it brought to his life. He shares his feelings about the fast-paced nature of the music industry and how he navigated the excitement and pressure of being a new artist. Bay reflects on the significance of his early work and the journey that led to his first headline tour.
"you end up signing a record deal in new york right yeah it was there was two visits to new york so it was probably more like sort of a couple of months two or three years for the story to say six let'..."
From EP to Album: A Rapid Ascent
James Bay elaborates on the swift transition from releasing his EP to launching his debut album. He shares the excitement of performing at festivals and the overwhelming experience of having audiences sing his songs back to him. This segment highlights the rapid growth of his career and the pivotal moments that defined his early success in the music industry.
"all the time i was constantly training as i say but i didn't i didn't appreciate there would kind of be an end to that in a way in another respect i'm sort of still training but at that time with what..."
The Power of Music and Memories
In this reflective segment, James Bay discusses the emotional connection people have with his music, particularly the song 'Let It Go.' He shares how music can evoke powerful memories and feelings, illustrating the profound impact of songwriting on both the artist and the listener. Bay emphasizes the importance of authenticity in his work and how it resonates with fans on a personal level.
"we went to sydney to do a show for about we went to sydney for about barely 36 hours 30 of them are on a plane where's the idle time out of time on a plane is like not whatever but it's all sort of cr..."
Trauma of Fame
James Bay opens up about the psychological effects of fame, describing it as a form of trauma. He recounts a moment with fellow artists Sam Smith and Niall Horan, discussing the unexpected emotional toll that comes with success in the music industry. He reflects on how this experience has shaped his life and artistry.
"and i still don't really i mean i don't i suppose typically i don't spend my time listening to my music once it's out i have to do so much listening as we're finishing the productions and the mixing a..."
Expectations and Artistic Growth
James explores the challenges of meeting expectations with each new album. He shares his gratitude for the success of his second album while acknowledging the pressure to replicate the success of his debut. He discusses the emotional conflict of wanting to surprise fans with new music while dealing with the realities of artistic evolution.
"actually i was this not to sort of drop names um that's not really my style but i was at a show a great artist called maggie rogers who was just fantastic i know maggie and i'm a big fan at the same t..."
The Journey of Self-Discovery
In this segment, James reflects on his creative journey and the influences that shaped his music. He discusses the importance of exploring different artistic directions and how his experiences have informed his songwriting. He emphasizes the need for personal growth and the desire to create music that resonates with both himself and his audience.
"that they went through but you just said to me chaos from the carmen's you know debut album went straight to number one it did and it was amazing and i'm still trying to work it out to this day you kn..."
Navigating Mental Health
James Bay shares his evolving understanding of mental health, recounting his early misconceptions and the stigma surrounding it. He discusses how his experiences in the music industry have highlighted the importance of addressing mental health openly and the necessity of seeking help when needed.
"every single time the chances of anyone getting a number one album at any time there's only one number one spot you know me as a lover of so much music with so many influences and inspirations differe..."
Performing Through Struggles
James talks about the conflict between performing and dealing with personal struggles, particularly during his tour with Ed Sheeran. He reflects on the pressure to maintain a public persona while grappling with his own mental health challenges, emphasizing the importance of authenticity in his performances.
"nobody else is so um it was interesting who uh received the second album who who of all the people that got on board for the release of my first album and followed my music and me as an artist some of..."
The Cost of Success
In this segment, James discusses the psychological toll of competing with his own success. He reflects on the challenges of following up a successful debut album and the expectations that come with it. He emphasizes the importance of staying true to himself and creating music that he loves, regardless of external pressures.
"in hindsight now if you could go back and you could just move the order of things you know what i'm going to say right you could just move the order of things would you maybe put you know electric lig..."
Creative Freedom and Personal Growth
James Bay shares insights into his creative process and the importance of exploring different musical influences. He discusses how his second album was a reaction to the overwhelming success of his first and the need for artistic freedom. He emphasizes the significance of personal growth in his music and the joy of celebrating diverse inspirations.
"reaction to what i felt personally to me was was like almost overkill on my first album i had had enough of who i was when i was roaming around the world on the chaos and the calm campaign what i repr..."
Understanding Mental Health
James reflects on his journey with mental health, discussing how his perspective has changed over the years. He shares his experiences of growing up in an environment where discussing feelings was often stigmatized and how this has influenced his understanding of mental health as an adult.
"was a reaction to something i needed to do as a reaction to how my first album campaign had gone we wouldn't have changed the the things around you know the order of things when you when you spoke abo..."
Breaking the Stigma
In this segment, James discusses the importance of breaking the stigma surrounding mental health, particularly for men. He shares his personal struggles and the realization that it's okay to talk about feelings and seek help. He emphasizes the need for open conversations about mental health in today's society.
"i remember struggling with you know as a teenager to be male and talk about your feelings wasn't the should never be the sort of first choice i i remember feeling like it was it was more about can you..."
The Weight of Imposter Syndrome
In this segment, James discusses his experience of imposter syndrome while touring with Ed Sheeran. He reveals the internal conflict of feeling unworthy despite performing in front of large crowds, highlighting the pressure and expectations that come with success in the music industry.
"it can take a toll and it's okay to talk about that to try and relieve some pressure and some strain and some stress that came as a result of various individuals that i was touring with or that i knew..."
Ambition vs. Self-Doubt
James explores the duality of ambition and self-doubt, expressing his desire for greater recognition while grappling with feelings of inadequacy. He candidly shares the internal dialogue that questions his achievements and the relentless drive that fuels his career.
"as an artist i don't know if i agree with them and so i felt like an imposter syndrome essentially in that time uh on the one hand i'm being you know it's really disproportionate and and and probably ..."
The Voices in My Head
James opens up about the critical voices in his head that challenge his self-worth. He discusses how these voices can undermine his confidence, even in moments of success, and the struggle to reconcile these thoughts with his reality as a successful artist.
"ambitious and driven everybody is i understand that and i am in my way and so i do want those kind of uh rewards of selling out such an enormous venue and so many and so often in the way that he adds ..."
Managing the Inner Critic
In this segment, James reflects on the importance of managing his inner critic. He shares insights from therapy about recognizing and reasoning with these negative thoughts, emphasizing that while they may never fully disappear, learning to control them is crucial for his mental well-being.
"and it stopped my ambitions and my drive feeling silly the bit the bit i was a little bit confused about there is you're saying you felt like an imposter in those moments but the voice is saying so i ..."
The Cost of Fame
James discusses the personal costs associated with fame, including the pressure to maintain a public persona while dealing with private struggles. He highlights the importance of finding balance and the impact of these pressures on his relationships and mental health.
"i think therefore trying to kind of come to terms with it is one of my big exercises at the moment because it's holding your happiness hostage right kind of yes and i know that it's winding up my mana..."
Finding Perspective in Trauma
James shares his journey of understanding and coping with trauma. He emphasizes the significance of perspective in overcoming insecurities and how therapy has helped him diminish the power of past traumas over his present life.
"be here you've been invited to talk on this on this podcast that's had so many exciting guests some of those voices say yeah they just they had someone pull out so they've got you last minute because ..."
The Drowning Feeling
In this poignant segment, James describes the overwhelming feeling of drowning in negative thoughts during challenging times. He contrasts the highs of performing with the lows that follow, illustrating the emotional rollercoaster that comes with being a public figure.
"voices the the the the negative ones um the more they can have an effect unfortunately a negative effect the more that they can sort of um they can stop me going out into the world and doing certain t..."
Therapy and Self-Reflection
James discusses the lessons learned from therapy regarding his inner voices. He reflects on the importance of self-reflection and understanding that these voices are part of his journey, rather than obstacles to overcome completely.
"i've learned since then through various types of therapy one of those is songwriting for me another one is typical sort of therapy as we know it speaking to somebody i've i've i've learned a little bi..."
Embracing Imperfection
In this closing segment, James emphasizes the need to embrace imperfection and the ongoing nature of personal growth. He shares insights on how accepting the presence of negative thoughts can lead to a more balanced and fulfilling life.
"were drowning yeah and that was definitely had a lot to do with the the the negative voices and feeling like they were all getting way too loud and way too much and way too overpowering and and it cou..."
Confronting Inner Voices
James Bay discusses the impact of therapy on his understanding of the negative inner voices that tell him he isn't good enough. He reflects on the importance of reasoning with these voices rather than trying to eliminate them entirely, emphasizing the need for perspective and self-compassion in the face of self-doubt.
"and saying and using them as a reason to tell me i wasn't good enough what has therapy taught you about that those voices well the things i've just said really they've it's therapies taught me um very..."
Navigating Emotional Currents
In this segment, James uses the metaphor of a river to describe his struggles with imposter syndrome and emotional turmoil. He explains the importance of wading through these feelings rather than trying to jump over them, highlighting the value of the journey and the lessons learned along the way.
"in 2019 when you feel like you're drowning what are the symptoms of that what are the what would i what are they that's a heart that's a good question a hard one to answer the symptoms are so invisibl..."
The Cost of Fame
James reflects on the pressures of fame and the emotional toll it can take. He shares a story about Barry Gibb from the Bee Gees, illustrating how even successful artists grapple with feelings of inadequacy and the fleeting nature of success, reminding listeners that life is a long journey filled with ups and downs.
"time that it takes because you typically like the river i'm talking about is never any less than like 20 feet wide so i'm not jumping over it you can't i can't fly i'm gonna have to just get in the wa..."
The Paradox of Success
James discusses the paradox of seeking success while recognizing its potential downsides. He shares insights from his own experiences and those of other musicians, emphasizing the importance of connection and the genuine love for music over accolades and recognition.
"often somebody actually not to go off on too much of a tangent here but it really resonated with me only a couple of days ago someone from my label was telling me about her time a long time ago now ac..."
The Drive for Connection
In this segment, James expresses his hunger for connection through music and performance. He reflects on the importance of building lasting relationships in his work and the emotional fulfillment that comes from creating and sharing music with others.
"and now you're telling me i'm a household name he said i unfortunately if i'm honest he said i still struggle with all sorts of these demons that i'm not good enough and having this and that success b..."
The Weight of Expectations
James shares his thoughts on the weight of expectations in the music industry, discussing how past successes can create pressure to replicate those moments. He acknowledges the struggle of balancing ambition with the reality of the industry's ups and downs.
"there in all of that is so many opportunities for connection not just for fans but with people i work with as well i cherish my working relationships i don't love lots of people coming in and out of m..."
Music Beyond Awards
James reflects on the significance of music beyond awards and accolades. He shares his thoughts on how the true essence of music lies in its emotional impact rather than the recognition it receives, emphasizing the importance of staying true to one's passion.
"yeah you're sure it's good reasons oh yeah i'm talking about the the accolades here though because number one is just a comparative measure so okay and actually i'm the same i'm playing devil's advoca..."
Vulnerability in Songwriting
James discusses the vulnerability involved in his songwriting process for his new album. He highlights the importance of expressing affection and emotional depth in his lyrics, revealing how his personal experiences shape his music and the desire to create a nurturing environment for his family.
"away by great music as i was when i was i don't even know how young let's talk about your new music sure your new album you know yeah let's we can do that i struggle i struggle talking about my stuff ..."
A New Depth of Affection
In this segment, James shares how becoming a parent has influenced his songwriting. He expresses his desire to foster a loving environment for his child and how this has led him to explore deeper emotional themes in his music, culminating in a heartfelt dedication to his partner.
"to be a different kind of affectionate than than the people i grew up around my immediate family um yeah i'm not afraid to say that because i don't criticize them um for how they were affectionate it ..."
Navigating Relationships
James reflects on the challenges of maintaining a long-term relationship while pursuing a music career. He discusses the importance of communication and support in their partnership, illustrating how they have grown together through various life changes and uncertainties.
"why she knew me before i you know got near the music industry i think she she knew me who went together but she knew me but like intimately as a friend before i even was certain how much i i definitel..."
The Anchor of Support
In this heartfelt segment, James describes Lucy as his anchor amidst the chaos of life and fame. He acknowledges her role in helping him manage his emotions and focus, highlighting the mutual support they provide each other in their personal and professional lives.
"and she's driven and she's ambitious for me for us for her for our family but i do tell her i do talk to her about it what do you think your life would be like without her god forbid calamitous tragic..."
The Journey of Growth
James reflects on the journey he and Lucy have taken together since their teenage years. He discusses the challenges of growing up and evolving as individuals while staying committed to each other, emphasizing the significance of their shared experiences and the strength of their bond.
"uh we've been on a journey man we've you know we really have and i can't you know we continue to to get to be on one and that's just it's so important to me it's a beautiful balance it's a beautiful b..."
The Importance of Vulnerability
In this segment, James talks about the necessity of vulnerability in his music and life. He shares how being open about his feelings and experiences has allowed him to connect more deeply with his audience and himself, marking a significant evolution in his artistic expression.
"years she had an opportunity through the degree that she did to go to america for a year and she did it and we decided to sort of hold on to each other in that time i didn't get to go but we sort of s..."
Leaping into the Unknown
James discusses the concept of taking risks and the fear associated with stepping into the unknown. He reflects on the phrase 'leap and the net will appear,' exploring how this mindset has influenced his life choices and creative process, and the importance of embracing uncertainty.
"does and i i know i do the same for her you know she's like a sort of anchor and you know the rest of me is sort of floating around in a stormy sea how much did that go into this album leap how much o..."
The Cost of Inaction
In this thought-provoking segment, James emphasizes the risks of not taking action in life. He discusses how stagnation can lead to missed opportunities and the importance of embracing challenges, using his own experiences to illustrate the value of taking leaps of faith.
"and more than that here's here's what she means to me so on the one hand it's the first time i've been more sort of public about talking about my my relationship on the other hand it's a total celebra..."
Understanding Risk and Reward
James shares his perspective on risk, challenging the conventional notions of bravery and cowardice. He reflects on his journey, discussing how understanding the true nature of risk can empower individuals to pursue their passions and live authentically.
"i think we want the net to appear we want to leap do something wonderful in the air and land safely and if you don't leap there's no wonderful in the air and there's no landing safely so you've not go..."
Embracing Life's Finality
In this introspective segment, James contemplates the concept of mortality and the urgency it brings to life. He discusses how recognizing the finite nature of time can motivate individuals to take risks and pursue their dreams, reinforcing the importance of living fully.
"these songs so much of the heart in these songs is about in the face of difficulty i have i have this and this and i have you and that references lucy quite directly most of the time you know that's t..."
The Balance of Public and Private Life
James reflects on the challenges of balancing his public persona with his private life. He discusses the importance of authenticity and the need to share his personal experiences, particularly regarding his relationship with Lucy, to connect with his audience on a deeper level.
"it's a story i've seen a couple of other people do it yeah yeah but when you think about the things you're consuming your mind with the concerns the procrastination this is not someone who thinks they..."
Sharing Personal Stories
James Bay opens up about the significance of sharing his personal life and experiences with his audience. He reflects on the balance between privacy and openness, explaining how sharing can be enlightening and liberating. This segment emphasizes the importance of celebrating relationships and the positive aspects of life, even amidst darker thoughts.
"because it's so easy to get it's dragged down by sort of darker thoughts that are always going to kind of exist don't like forget the the light on the horizon the silver lining that's there as well le..."
Would You Do It All Again?
James Bay contemplates the question of whether he would relive his past experiences. He acknowledges the brilliance of his journey but also expresses a desire to move forward without repeating the past. This segment captures the tension between nostalgia and the excitement of future possibilities, highlighting the importance of growth and new experiences.
"oh this is an interesting one yeah so our previous guest leaves a question for our next guest right go on okay so the question they um they left for you and i really want you to think about this becau..."
Unlocking New Depths in Music
In this concluding segment, James Bay discusses the evolution of his music and how it reflects his personal growth. He shares insights into the creative process and the deeper emotional connections his new work aims to establish with listeners. This segment underscores the transformative power of art and the importance of authenticity in expressing one's journey.
"of you know fight with all these voices but it's also what makes it exciting well james um you are a person who is particularly enjoyable to talk to oh thanks man and i think likewise very much likewi..."