"every star in the sky probably has planets Y and life is probably emerging on these planets but I think the commentarial space Associated to these planets is so different our causal cones are never go..."

"dear friends here's Lee Cronin so your big assembly Theory paper was published in nature congratulations thanks it created uh I think it's fair to say a lot of controversy but also a lot of interestin..."

"through definitions so there's a central equation I'd love to uh talk about but definition wise what is an object um yeah an object so from so if I'm going to try to be as meticulous as possible objec..."

"I'm happy with both depending on the day okay so the set of steps it took to create the object so there's a sense in which every object in the universe has a history Y and that is part of the thing th..."

"not so trivial to figure out so when you look at an object we can say a molecule we can say object more generally mhm to figure out the minimum number of steps it takes to create that object that does..."

"that I don't yet understand so what's the computational complexity of figuring out the shortest path in um with molecules with language with mathematical theorems it seems like once you have the fully..."

"correlation assembly index and we used another technique as well in addition to infrared called NMR nuclear magnetic resonance which tells you about the number of different magnetic environments in a ..."

"so I've started assembly theory of emoticons with my lab believe it or not so we take emojis yeah pixelate them yeah and work out the assembly index for emoji yeah and then work out how many emojis yo..."

"a new way of looking at not just compression what we do right now in computer science and data one big kind of um uh um kind of misunderstanding is assembly theory is telling you about how compressed ..."

"assembly so that means those are actually constraints I guess yes and they're the only constraints they're the constraints at the base so the way to look at is you got all your atoms they're quantied ..."

"processes um but you can find instances where the shortest path isn't taken for an individual object an individual function MH um and people go ah that means the shortest path isn't right and then I s..."

"my competence but in economics I'm just wondering if you could apply this in economic process it seems like capitalism is very good at finding shortest path you know every time and there are ludicrous..."

"one the equation basically has a on one side which is the Assembly of The Ensemble MH and then a sum from one to n where n is the total number of unique objects and then there is a few variables in th..."

"done my job the phys well you say in the physics they say because you're basically saying that physics is not enough to tell the story of how biology emerges I think so and then they said a few physic..."

"of life yet do doesn't mean it won't or can't okay just to be clear sorry intelligent designers we are going to get there second point we say that Evolution works but we don't know how Evolution got g..."

"the broader sense of what selection means yeah that's really good for selection selection so I think for selection you need so this is where for me the concept of an object is something that can persi..."

"super subtle the object has to be continually being destroyed and made by process so it's not just about the proc the object now it's about the process and time that makes it because a rock could just..."

"everywhere how special is that how do you know those kinds of uh Evolution factories aren't everywhere in the universe I I don't and I'm excited cuz I think selection isn't special at all I think what..."

"you put a single e cell of e eoli cell yeah and then you say I'm going to I'm going to measure the assembly in the amount of assembly in the box so it's quite low but the rate of change of assembly da..."

"they're all familiar with a molecule and molecules you can hold you know on your hand lots of them identical copies a molecues actually a super important thing chemistry to say look you can have a mol..."

"and so it's to do with the detection system that you have and the resolution so I wonder if there's an art and science to the which detection system is used when you show up to a new planet yeah yeah ..."

"Technique you then you what you then do is you then look at the assembly index now if the assembly index of them is really low right and they all they're all indistinguishable then You' then it's tell..."

"that are well you you've either got to find the source living system because the problem with just looking for complexity is it gets burnt away so in a harsh environment on on on say on the M surface ..."

"alternatively you'd shine infrared light on them you count the number of bands but you'd have to in that case do some separation because you want to separate in and so in Mass Spec it's really nice an..."

"of selection okay so let's apply our life meter to Earth so what you know if we were just to apply assembly index measurements to Earth what do what what kind of stuff are going to be get uh are going..."

"complex molecules of which the copy number is two or greater yeah exactly so on Earth so coming back to Earth what we did is we took a whole bunch of samples we and we were running Prebiotic chemistry..."

"for fun I C took some Glen coin whiskey andard B and put them into the mass backck and measure the assembly index I also got eoli so the way we do it take the eoli break the cell apart take it all apa..."

"on Earth um that's a success yeah oh yeah resounding success um well can can you uh just go back to the beer and the eoli so what's the assembly index on those so what you were able to do is like the ..."

"things that are no longer exist I mean the tree contains information about the past I would some of it is gone yeah yeah absolutely I would love to get old fossil samples and apply assembly Theory MPC..."

"decomposition of molecules you think it's possible oh yeah without a doubt it may not be better than what cuz like the I was just at a conference where some brilliant people looking at isotope AR wren..."

"yeah like you could say oh this person is 10 years old and this person 30 years old because they' be metabolizing more carbon and they've accumulated it that's the basic idea it's probably completely ..."

"so yeah so this that even what what what's it mean for a penny to be I mean the the Penny's dropped right because a lot of people were like it's rubbish it's rubbish you've insulted me it's wrong and ..."

"the hierarchy um you know it has been criticized quite a bit the paper uh what has been some criticism that you found most powerful like that you can understand and can you explain it the yes the most..."

"cannot in principle be encoded in the initial conditions of the universe just to clarify what you mean by life is like what high assembly index objects yeah and this goes back to your favorite subject..."

"vocal and some of them were really rude really spiteful and needlessly so right because look you know um it I I I didn't people misunderstand publication as well some of the people have said how dare ..."

"upon well what about the criticism of you're just putting a bunch of sexy names on something that's already obvious um yeah that's really good so so um the assembly index of a molecule is not obvious ..."

"to say there one is you know this is um in part of Phil philosophical framework because you know it's not like you can apply this generally to any object in the universe it's very chemistry focused ye..."

"very talented chap basically was like oh I can realize that different people had different ideas or different rules and they copied each other and made slightly different bit different Celler automete..."

"hierarchies of emergence right so you shouldn't compare them I mean the assembly index of a human brain what does that even mean well maybe we can look at the morphology of the human brain say all hum..."

"compression it is about um understanding how you can make the most of the in the architecture you've already built and I think this is something beautiful that Evolution does we're re reusing those ar..."

"a Linux guy by the way so your examples go way over my yeah well whatever is that is that like a is that a fruit company of some sort I don't even know yeah there's a lot of interesting stuff to ask a..."

"assembly theory that it has more understanding of the past and how things were created well basically the thing with llms is are like everything everywhere all at once Splat and make the user happy so..."

"comra complexity of an object is the length of a shortest computer program that produces the object as output yeah I'm I I seem to there seems to be a disconnect between the computational approach the..."

"there's no caal chain yeah and I think that's the main as the caal chain is at the at the at the core of uh assembly Theory exactly and if you're if you've got all your data in a computer memory all t..."

"shortest path then says allows you to say oh this object wasn't just created randomly there was a process and so assembly theory is not meant to you know one up AIT or to ignore the factory it's just ..."

"that's the same thing if you're looking at in assembly spaces for a object where you don't know the entire history but you know that um you know in the history of this object is not going to have some..."

"little criticism I saw of do you uh by way of question do you consider the different probabilities of each reaction in the chain so like that there could be different when you look at a chain of event..."

"reactions like so you could have like I don't know the vitic reaction which is by you know vitic um you could have the Suzuki reaction which is by Suzuki now what are these reactions so these reaction..."

"transformations to occur do exist okay okay so it's constraint applic so it's there's no chemical reactions it's all constraint application Y which enables the emergence of Rea of what's a different w..."

"highest level the nature Communications paper we on the Mass backc on the on the idea went through went to Nature and got rejected went through six rounds of review and got rejected and and it and it'..."

"don't you understand and so um so what I did so what I would just is try to be as as as um as rational as possible and say yeah you didn't like it um tell me why and then um sorry silly never get emot..."

"submitted the paper and then when it was almost accepted right the mass Beck one and it was astrobiologist gray um you know a mass spectroscopist said great and the chemist went nonsense like biggest ..."

"um the actual experimental data so this is kind of in this paper the experimental justification was already published so when we did this one and we went through the versions and and then we sent it i..."

"you it doesn't get better than that if you can't accept a few people hating it and the nice thing is the thing that I really makes me happy is that no one has attacked the actual physical content like..."

"good at school right um this is uh when you were very young yeah yeah well but in primary school I U my handwriting was really poor and apparently I couldn't read and um and I and my mathematics was v..."

"know and there were people can speak English MH and there were people that really had learning difficulties so um the one thing I can objectively remember um was I mean I could read um I like reading ..."

"a levels but then that also kind of limited what I could do at a levels I wasn't allowed to do a level maths what do you mean you weren't allowed to because I I had such a bad math grade from My GCSE ..."

"chemistry professor in my group is I I don't I hire people that I think that you know I'm kind of who am I if they're persistent enough um who am I to deny them the chance because some you know people..."

"and do is get enough criticism um from people to then triangulate and go back and I've been very fortunate in my life that I've got great colleagues great collaborators funders mentors and people that..."

"scared yeah I yeah the I've seen you be pretty aggressively critical but it's every time I've seen it it's the idea not the person um I I'm sure I make mistakes on that I mean I I you know I argue I a..."

"word not correct that we are going to know that the universe as it stands the present the way the present builds the future so big the universe can't ever contain the future and this is a really inter..."

"a good example intuitive example but it's possible that we might be able to predict you know whether it's going to snow if we had the perfect information I I think we you're saying not impossible impo..."

"cultures and language and these things are the biggest things exist in the universe because we can just Build architectures That Could naturally arise anywhere and the further that distance goes in ti..."

"about alien life why it's why we have to create alien life in the lab as quickly as possible because I don't know if we are going to be able to be able to build um architectures that will intersect wi..."

"exactly if we could basically recreate the selection before biology as we know it that gives rise to a different biology we should be a to put the constraints on where to look in the universe so here'..."

"we start to um but I would say that cuz I'm a Shameless assembly theorist yeah I it just feels like the the cone I might be misusing the word cone here but the width of the cone is growing faster um i..."

"look you see I think Carl Sean did the wrong well not the wrong thing he he flicked the Voyager program pale blue dot said look how big universe is I would have done it the other way around said look ..."

"of change your mind about time because I'm I'm guessing that your uh time is just um coordinate yeah so I'm I'm going to change your guessing you're one of those I'm going to change your one of those ..."

"conditions don't apply well how do you know it can't store it um well how do you store an infinitely long number in a finite size well we're using Infinity very Loosely here no no we're using infinite..."

"intrinsically too big and that's why time exists it's non-deterministic looking back into the past you can look at the you can use logical um arguments because you can say was it true or false you alr..."

"observables we're trying to see exactly where time being fundamental sneaks in and this difference between that the the the golf ball can't contain its own position perfectly precisely if how that lea..."

"generating novelty um I don't know all the features of that experiment yet but by you know having these conversations openly and getting people to think about the problems in a new way better people m..."

"you have to have so that the novelty what is novelty you know this is why I think is a funny thing you ever want to discuss AI why I think everyone's kind of gone AI mad is that they're misunderstandi..."

"that the problem with wave particle duality and quantum mechanics is not um about the Multiverse it's about understanding how determined the past is well I don't think just think that actually this is..."

"Theory helps us quantify the transition to biology and biology appears to be novelty mining because it's making crazy stuff you know um that that we are unique to earth right there are objects on Eart..."

"law and right now I mean I'm we don't need the second law if the future's bigger than the past it follows naturally right so why are we retrofitting all these these sticking plasters onto our reality ..."

"you're disrespecting the power of the initial conditions uh let me ask you about so how do you explain that cellometer are able to produce such incredible complexity given just basic rules and basic i..."

"out sure and that's that that to use fundamental and you can't predict it from initial conditions yeah if you could then it' be fine and that time is res the foundation of uh the history the memory of..."

"AGI I think that we have no conception of intelligence and I think that we don't understand how the human brain does what it does I think that we are neurosciences making great Advan but I think that ..."

"know maybe I don't know anything you can't think of why is this is a and I'll I'll take a very simple series of logical arguments and and this is the the the AI doomers are have not had the correct an..."

"AI dumers in the owski camp saying it's definitely going to kill us because there's a spectrum 95% I think is the limit yeah 95% plus that's no not not plus I think I don't know I was seeing on Twitte..."

"all um we don't know where the intention comes from the problem is that people think they keep you know watching all the husters online with the prompt engineering and all this stuff where when I talk..."

"category era number one is agen they have agency C era number two is saying that assuming that anything we make is going to be more intelligent now you didn't say super intelligent I'll put the words ..."

"embodied intelligence so I think that there are so many levels that we're missing out we're just kind of went oh we've discovered fire oh gosh the planet's just going to burn one day randomly I mean I..."

"consequences that come to life I I think that that's right that the unintended consequences we have to think about and i' that I fully I fully agree with but let's go back a bit sentient I mean I'm ag..."

"it yeah I mean but you don't think it's possible to get a I mean if you were super I mean I if you were it not kill all of life on Earth but kill all humans there's not many of us there's only like 8 ..."

"yeah you know well I I think uh there's several things to say there uh one I think there is a role in society for people that say we're all going to die cuz I think uh it filters through as a message ..."

"civilization dying but there's could be a lot of suffering if this is done poor I I understand that and I'm I kind of I guess I mean I'm involved in the whole hype cycle like why what I would like us ..."

"I really like an AI to be in charge of all World politics and this is sounds ridiculous for a second hang on but if we could all agree on the aiers just woke up yeah yeah yeah on that statement but I ..."

"out with our our conceptual capability but right now what about the Nations certain nations are being um exploited for their natural resources in the future because for a short-term gain because we do..."

"take would take that trade yeah I mean we have to ask ourselves a question of how many Which percentage of humans would be suicide bombers essentially where where they would sacrifice their own life t..."

"really terrified at this point no they're happy they have a job for another 20 years right oh Fe Monger yeah yeah yeah we got I'm a Believer in equal employment you've mentioned that uh what you call ..."

"made me really feel really happy I got a hit from it but actually it just exposed how little intelligence I use in in every moment because I'm easily fooled so what I would like to do is to say well h..."

"a party trick it's like you know the the I like the um I think it's in the fabric of reality from David deuts where basically you know the farmer is feeding the chicken every day and the chicken's get..."

"set because you mind the past the thing that I'm getting to is I think that actually current machine learning Technologies might actually help reveal why time is fundamental it's like kind of insane b..."

"to give back at you and I it's like how do you tell the difference between trial and error um and the generation of new knowledge I think the way you can do it is this is that you come up with a a the..."

"again if the if the intelligent system be a human being a chat chat bot something else is able to produce something truly novel that we I could not predict even having full audit trail from the past t..."

"is and you train the neural network to know what electron density is so then you give it an unknown pocket you pour in noise and you say right produce me electron density it produces electron density ..."

"seen yeah and how novel the things that humans generate is also difficult to uh quantify MH they seem novel that's what a lot of people say like you know so the way to really get to genuine novelty an..."

"for this you want to know yeah is I think that um a lot of and maybe I'm being and I think I really do respect um you know um a lot of the people out there who are trying to have discourse about the p..."

"place some debates that were inspired by the assembly Theory paper let me ask you about God is there any room for Notions of God in assembly Theory um who God yeah I I don't know what God is a I mean ..."

"right I have lots of I have lots of there are some people I know that angry atheist and say you know say that religious people are stupid I don't think that's the case um I have faith in some things C..."

"actually in the present the things everything that can exist in the present does exist well that would mean is deterministic right no I think the universities might so the universe started super small..."

"tangible way which is what the the initial conditions and physics cannot predict like your imagination has a causal consequence in the future isn't that weird too yeah how do you it breaks breaks the ..."

"chase you know um do you hate that it's going to be over at some point for you no I I well for me I don't so I I I I think if you think about it is it over for Newton now Newton has had causal consequ..."