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a16z Podcast | Why Crypto Tokens Matter

a16z Podcast | Why Crypto Tokens Matter

30 segments available

We’ve already talked about why bitcoin matters. But as the set of cryptocurrencies — and networks and “tokens” enabled by the underlying blockchain — grow (Ethereum being one of the fastest-growing ones), where do we go from here? How do we tease apart the signal from the noise, given all the buzz and critiques out there? In this episode of the a16z Podcast, general partner Chris Dixon and Fred Ehrsam (former Goldman Sachs trader and a co-founder of Coinbase) break down the fundamentals of it all — from incentives, developer communities, and protocols, to new models of governance and the tradeoffs between centralized and decentralized systems (including central planning vs. letting a thousand experiments bloom). And then, given all the hype out there right now around crypto tokens and “ICOs”, how do we tell the difference between what’s promising/legitimate vs. a red flag? How could we value tokens? And what does it mean for incumbents when all the value that was created in the previous paradigm is being commoditized by the new one, and that value creation now has to happen at some new layer? At the end of the day, the key word through it all is incentives. And it’s a testament to the power of getting incentive structures right that someone pseudonymously dropping a 9-page whitepaper onto the internet led to a $70 billion cryptocurrency, a whole ecosystem of companies and users, and the largest supercomputer network in the world. Then again… isn’t that how innovation happens?

Segments Timeline

1
0:00 - 0:22
0:22 duration97 words

The Importance of Crypto Beyond Hype

In this segment, the hosts introduce the podcast's focus on cryptocurrencies and tokens, emphasizing that the internet is just the beginning of blockchain-enabled innovation. They outline the key topics to be discussed, including incentives, networks, and governance models, setting the stage for a deeper exploration of why cryptocurrencies matter.

"hi everyone welcome to the a six in Z podcast I'm sonal there's a lot of talk about crypto currencies and tokens and I SEOs out there but beyond the hype why does it all matter it turns out the intern..."

2
0:22 - 1:01
0:39 duration160 words

Understanding Economics in the Internet Age

Chris Dixon explains how cryptocurrencies embed economics directly into the internet, contrasting it with previous models that relied on indirect economics. He discusses the limitations of traditional internet protocols and how new blockchain technologies like Ethereum and Filecoin offer more direct and neutral economic interactions.

"know on the topic from incentives networks developer communities and new models of governance to the trade-offs between centralized and decentralized systems and then we briefly touch on how to tell t..."

3
1:01 - 2:02
1:00 duration225 words

The Developer Crisis and Centralization

Dixon highlights the challenges faced by developers in a centralized system, where innovation has stagnated due to a lack of investment in protocol development. He discusses the frustrations of developers who feel constrained by platforms like Facebook and Google, and how decentralized protocols offer a new way to empower developers.

"well so let's go right into our favorite topic which is what we talked about whole time which is the cool stuff happening in cryptocurrencies so for people that are listening and they've heard about B..."

4
2:02 - 3:12
1:10 duration271 words

Incentives: The Key to Blockchain Success

The conversation shifts to the critical role of incentives in blockchain networks. Dixon illustrates how well-engineered incentive structures can lead to significant emergent behaviors, using Bitcoin's creation as an example of how a simple whitepaper can spawn a massive ecosystem and the largest supercomputer network.

"way I think of it is we had this we had this significant design constraint we meaning the Internet community for building things right which is you you basically had like two models like one was you d..."

5
3:12 - 4:14
1:02 duration228 words

Overcoming the Bootstrap Problem

Dixon discusses the bootstrap problem in network effects and how cryptocurrencies can incentivize early users to join a network. He compares this to traditional startups, emphasizing that cryptocurrencies can provide financial rewards to early adopters, thus facilitating network growth and utility.

"group of developers who have been frankly kind of abused by the platforms for a decade you just arbitrarily get banned you know or an if you're lucky you get to pay them 30% right so there's a there's..."

6
4:14 - 5:36
1:22 duration250 words

Decentralization as a Solution to Platform Grievances

The hosts explore how decentralization addresses grievances associated with centralized platforms. They argue that cryptocurrencies and blockchain technology offer a new governance model that empowers users and developers, contrasting it with the frustrations experienced with traditional tech giants.

"a network where developers come together with users and so that goes back to you know Windows is a platform obviously you know iOS and I phone is a platform Andrew platform Twitter it was applied for ..."

7
5:36 - 6:59
1:22 duration266 words

Experimenting with Economic Models

Dixon highlights the potential of cryptocurrencies to serve as experimental grounds for various economic and governance models. He discusses how each token can function like a central bank, allowing for diverse monetary policies and governance schemes, thus fostering innovation in economic structures.

"four orders of magnitude so it just goes to show how powerful incentive structures are and one that is really well engineered can just create massive amounts of emergent behavior that are almost hard ..."

8
6:59 - 8:30
1:30 duration333 words

Tasos: A New Blockchain Experiment

The segment introduces Tasos, a new blockchain similar to Ethereum that allows for smart contracts. The hosts discuss its unique features and how it represents the ongoing evolution of blockchain technology, emphasizing the importance of continuous innovation in the crypto space.

"chicken and the egg problem yeah as it relates to network effects the good news is once your critical mass they're awesome right right the bad news is until your critical mass they're terrible like a ..."

9
8:24 - 9:10
0:45 duration152 words

The Value of Network Effects

Chris Dixon discusses how the value of a network increases as more users join, highlighting the risk-reward dynamic similar to startups. He emphasizes that early adopters may face low utility initially, but if the network succeeds, both users and developers benefit, playing a role in governance. This segment underscores the importance of decentralized systems in addressing grievances with centralized platforms.

"utility if you're the first person on the network the value is effectively zero and then as more people join the network the value goes up drastically and there is a risk/reward thing they're just lik..."

10
9:10 - 10:04
0:54 duration190 words

Decentralization as a Solution

Dixon critiques the media's portrayal of cryptocurrencies, arguing that decentralization aims to resolve issues associated with centralized platforms like Facebook. He points out that the cryptocurrency movement is not solely a Silicon Valley phenomenon but has significant social and economic implications, creating a testing ground for various governance models and economic policies.

"frustrating to read some of the news reports one column they'll say we're very frustrated with how Facebook handled the election and the other column they'll say wow cryptocurrencies this this terribl..."

11
10:04 - 10:51
0:47 duration138 words

Tezos: A Self-Amending Blockchain

The segment introduces Tezos, a blockchain that allows for self-amendment through user voting. Dixon explains how this feature enables the protocol to evolve over time, providing a unique mechanism for developers to contribute improvements and be compensated, thus fostering innovation within the ecosystem.

"thousand tokens so in some ways what we're doing is we're creating a giant experimenting ground for all sorts of different monetary policies and all sorts of different governance schemes so this lipst..."

12
10:51 - 12:03
1:11 duration250 words

Incentives for Improvement

Dixon discusses the potential value creation in cryptocurrencies like Ethereum, where improvements can significantly raise network value. He explores how to align incentives for developers to contribute to protocol enhancements, suggesting that offering a portion of the perceived value could motivate innovation and participation.

"as time goes on and the reason this is interesting is it provides this unique evolutionary mechanism within Tasos if you view it as sort of an organism where it can evolve and adapt over time based on..."

13
12:03 - 12:39
0:35 duration125 words

Token Inflation as a Reward Mechanism

The conversation shifts to how Tezos proposes to reward developers through token inflation. By creating new tokens for contributions, Tezos aims to incentivize improvements while diluting existing holders, thus balancing the overall value for the network.

"thing and that's where I think more more innovation needs to happen what if you could offer even half of the perceived value of one of these improvements so in this case let's say you're to offer abou..."

14
12:39 - 13:40
1:01 duration220 words

Staking and Negative Incentives

Dixon explains the concept of staking, particularly in Ethereum's transition from proof of work to proof of stake. He highlights how staking can introduce negative incentives to deter malicious behavior, drawing parallels to email spam and how economic models can evolve to improve system integrity.

"kind of like a new employee joining a company where everybody's stock gets diluted a little bit but it improves the overall value for everyone yep let's let's talk about staking I've heard this concep..."

15
13:40 - 15:02
1:22 duration253 words

Centralization vs. Decentralization

This segment contrasts the pros and cons of centralized and decentralized systems. Dixon argues that while centralization may offer efficiency, it limits experimentation. He emphasizes the value of decentralized protocols in fostering innovation and user engagement, drawing parallels to historical economic models.

"called overnight oh yeah it probably overnight em okay so let's talk about centralized decentralized let's talk about pros and cons sure so pros to centralization are you can potentially have more con..."

16
15:02 - 16:34
1:31 duration335 words

The Power of Decentralized Protocols

Dixon discusses the potential of decentralized protocols to outperform centralized platforms in the long run. He highlights the importance of network effects and user engagement, suggesting that decentralized systems can adapt and evolve more effectively than their centralized counterparts.

"the same way that PayPal could never really become the money of the internet but crypto currencies theoretically could or in the same way that developers are now quite scared of building on the Twitte..."

17
16:34 - 19:00
2:26 duration571 words

Long-Term Thinking in Innovation

The segment concludes with a discussion on the long-term thinking inherent in decentralized innovation. Dixon contrasts the short-term focus of centralized companies with the broader time horizons of decentralized developers, suggesting that this dynamic fosters more significant breakthroughs and innovations in technology.

"the platform in check right like it doesn't matter if you can spur you date from Facebook all your friends are on Facebook it's a network fact that game is over there will be new games if you had to m..."

18
19:00 - 19:56
0:55 duration184 words

Embracing Decentralized Experimentation

The conversation shifts to the advantages of decentralized systems, where multiple paths can be explored simultaneously. Dixon emphasizes that this chaotic nature allows for rapid learning and adaptation, contrasting it with the limitations of centralized planning.

"try less things the the interesting thing about the decentralized paradigm is the ability to try many things as opposed to just one path it would be the equivalent of being able to take Facebook copy ..."

19
19:56 - 21:04
1:07 duration207 words

Developer Activity as a Leading Indicator

Dixon highlights the importance of developer activity in the cryptocurrency space as a key indicator of innovation. He reflects on the resurgence of experimentation in the crypto ecosystem, particularly with Ethereum, and how this has led to a broader range of possibilities and excitement in the industry.

"currency as opposed to 2014-15 which were pretty pretty winter wintry and whatnot and it's not the prices people say oh the Bitcoin is down now they're up and it's not to me it's not that it's exactly..."

20
21:04 - 22:14
1:09 duration256 words

Understanding the New Internet Paradigm

The discussion focuses on the need to understand cryptocurrencies beyond just their monetary value. Dixon argues that these technologies are reshaping the internet's architecture, allowing participants to own parts of networks, which requires a deeper understanding of both technical and cultural aspects.

"different things like one it showed that you could just simply have another scaled Network right I think a lot people just assumed it was gonna be one network to rule them all network effects etc etc ..."

21
22:14 - 23:16
1:02 duration227 words

Identifying Promising ICOs

Dixon and Ehrsam delve into the current landscape of ICOs, discussing the challenges of distinguishing legitimate projects from scams. They outline key indicators of promising tokens, emphasizing the importance of genuine technical specifications and the presence of a capable development team.

"words you need to understand it as currency and that's one way to model fundamentally what these things might be worth and how certain aspects of the system flow but if that's your only lens then you ..."

22
23:16 - 24:28
1:12 duration223 words

Red Flags in Token Projects

The segment identifies common red flags in token projects, such as rent-seeking behavior and poorly defined use cases. Dixon stresses the importance of evaluating the underlying technology and the team's capability to deliver on their promises.

"little about what's going on now yeah so everyone's coming out of the woodwork selling a token because they think there's free money to be had just like startups there's a small percentage that are le..."

23
24:28 - 25:13
0:44 duration165 words

Navigating the Risks of Cryptocurrency Investments

Dixon advises caution when investing in cryptocurrencies and ICOs, highlighting the complexities and risks involved. He encourages potential investors to conduct thorough research and treat these investments with the same caution as venture capital.

"in the traditional way other favorites are releasing a white paper that is actually just a marketing brochure it has nothing to do with the technical specifications of a protocol which is what a token..."

24
25:13 - 26:05
0:52 duration174 words

Infrastructure vs. Application Development

The conversation shifts to the current stage of the cryptocurrency industry, emphasizing the importance of building infrastructure rather than jumping straight into application development. Dixon argues that foundational components are crucial for future scalability.

"and so tread very carefully we're not in any way suggesting that people should buy any of these things even though we're excited about them - what else like what are the other yeah well one is maybe m..."

25
26:05 - 27:10
1:04 duration267 words

The Importance of Native Blockchain Solutions

Dixon discusses the necessity of creating solutions that are uniquely enabled by blockchain technology. He warns against hybrid approaches that attempt to merge old paradigms with new technologies, advocating for innovative designs that leverage the full potential of blockchain.

"building optical switching and you know web servers and all sorts of other infrastructure there's a reason it took you know it took 20 years to get to Facebook you had to have AWS and you had to have ..."

26
27:10 - 28:06
0:55 duration200 words

The Value of Tokens vs. Equity

Dixon explores the misconception that tokens function like equity in traditional finance. He explains that while equity represents rights to future cash flows, tokens are fundamentally different and should be valued based on their utility and the economic models they support, rather than by drawing direct comparisons to established companies.

"it it's things like stripe hey what would be like if we made like the most awesome payment system for developers and we design it from scratch yeah and it's always gonna be better that way then hey le..."

27
28:06 - 29:10
1:04 duration225 words

Modeling Token Value: A New Approach

The discussion shifts to how to model the value of cryptocurrencies like Filecoin. Dixon highlights the importance of understanding the underlying economic factors, such as money supply and transaction velocity, that influence token value, moving beyond speculative pricing to a more rigorous financial analysis.

"subconsciously most people think about the value of tokens like equity and if you're to say that directly to them they may not say oh yeah I think a token is equivalent to equity but that's just how w..."

28
29:10 - 30:00
0:50 duration192 words

Commodities vs. Network Resources

Dixon differentiates between cryptocurrencies that act as commodities, like Bitcoin, and those that serve as network resources. He explains how the valuation models for these two categories differ, emphasizing the need to understand the unique attributes and use cases of each type of token.

"you go through and you really kind of model out in detail you know if file coin got to scale and you were using file coins to transact and the storage market were this big and people were paying willi..."

29
30:00 - 31:14
1:13 duration255 words

The Role of Software in Innovation

The conversation delves into how software can encode various economic concepts, including equity and commodities. Dixon argues that the potential for innovation in the blockchain space is limited only by human creativity, contrasting it with traditional models of innovation that may not apply in the software realm.

"flows rather it's the money supply it's the velocity of money it's the average price of goods or services in the economy and it's the number of goods or services in the economy that the that are sold ..."

30
31:14 - 34:42
3:28 duration664 words

Decentralization: Opportunities and Challenges

Dixon discusses the challenges and opportunities that incumbents face in adapting to a decentralized economy. He emphasizes that the shift from centralized to decentralized systems does not have to be a zero-sum game and highlights the potential for new value creation in this evolving landscape.

"nomenclature like I think of in the first bucket the commodity bucket there's Bitcoin there's Manero and Zee cash maybe - there's other thing which is kind of the network's call them fat protocols cal..."