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How to become a category pirate | Christopher Lochhead (Author of Play Bigger, Niche Down, more)
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Christopher Lochhead is a 14-time #1 bestselling author, top podcaster, and former 3x public tech company CMO and has been an advisor to over 50 VC-backed tech startups. He is best known as a “godfather” of category design, and Adobe named his book Play Bigger one of “the five greatest marketing books of all time.” In this episode, we discuss:• What exactly category design is • The “Frame It, Name It, Claim It” framework • How to go about designing your category • Why “languaging” is so powerful • Rating yourself on the category design scorecard • Why Chris considers “product-market fit” a dangerous concept • Chris’s spicy take on positioning • The “better trap” and why it’s crucial to avoid it • The magic triangle of product, company, and category • How to embrace negative feedback • Why the greatest time in the history of innovation is now — Brought to you by Mixpanel—Event analytics that everyone can trust, use, and afford: https://mixpanel.com/startups | Vanta—Automate compliance. Simplify security: https://vanta.com/lenny | Round—The private network built by tech leaders for tech leaders: https://www.round.tech/apply?utm_campaign=lennys-letter&utm_medium=email-ad&utm_source=email-marketing&utm_content=send-3-2023-09-17 Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/how-to-become-a-category-pirate-christopher Where to find Christopher Lochhead: • Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lochhead • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopherlochhead/ • Website: https://www.categorypirates.com/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Chris’s background (05:08) Why Chris shares his negative criticism on his website (11:58) A simple explanation of category design (18:00) How Purell mastered category design (23:07) What Gong got right (and wrong) (29:01) The “better trap” and why it’s crucial to avoid it (38:51) Reflective thinking vs. reflexive thinking (44:45) How Lomi created a revolutionary solution for food waste (48:50) The “Frame It, Name It, Claim It” framework (49:08) The concept of “languaging” (54:00) Examples of languaging (59:19) Spend more time on the problem than the solution (1:01:37) The power of “backcasting” (1:07:33) The truth behind building legendary brands (1:10:39) The problem with product-market fit (1:16:11) Chris’s spicy take on positioning (1:19:20) “Damming the demand” (1:24:49) Laws from Chris’s book The 22 Laws of Category Design (1:29:46) Word of mouth: the most powerful form of marketing (1:34:05) Chris’s closing message to listeners (1:39:01) Lightning round Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Segments Timeline
The Greatest Time to Create
Christopher Lochhead emphasizes that now is the best time in history to be a creator, entrepreneur, or marketer. He encourages those who want to innovate and make a significant impact to embrace this moment, stating that the future needs them. This segment sets the stage for the discussion on category design and its importance in building a legendary career.
"the point being now is the greatest time in history to be a Creator to be an entrepreneur to to be a marketer I've been a marketer for my entire adult life it's never been greater than it is right now..."
Meet Christopher Lochhead
In this segment, Lenny introduces Christopher Lochhead, a renowned author and podcaster known as the 'godfather of category design.' They discuss Lochhead's impressive background, including his bestselling books and experience advising tech startups. This introduction lays the groundwork for the deep dive into category design concepts.
"I say to you is the future needs you welcome to Lenny's podcast where interview world-class product leaders and growth experts to learn from their hardwind experiences building and growing today's mos..."
The Importance of Category Design
Lochhead explains why creating your own category is crucial for building a legendary business. He contrasts this with the common approach of competing in existing categories, emphasizing that true innovation comes from breaking new ground rather than trying to be the best in a crowded market.
"our conversation we dig deep into all things category design including what exactly is category design why in order to build a legendary business it's so essential to build your own category versus tr..."
The Myth of Competition
Christopher discusses the misconception that success comes from competing with better products or services. He highlights that legendary figures in various fields, like Bob Marley and Pablo Picasso, did not achieve greatness by competing but by creating new categories. This segment challenges conventional business wisdom.
"with Chris with that I bring you Christopher lad after a short word from our sponsors this episode is brought to you by mix panel get deep insights into what your users are doing at every stage of the..."
The Value of Category Leadership
Lochhead shares insights from his research on venture-backed tech companies, revealing that the leader in a category captures a significant majority of the market value. He explains that focusing on category design allows businesses to create demand rather than just capture it, which is essential for long-term success.
"the full user funnel powered by first-party behavioral data instead of thirdparty cookies mix panel is built to be more powerful and easier to use than Google analytics explore plans for teams of ever..."
Design vs. Creation
In this segment, Lochhead clarifies the distinction between category design and category creation. He argues that 'design' implies a strategic approach to shaping a market, while 'creation' can lead to confusion about product features. This nuanced understanding is vital for entrepreneurs looking to innovate effectively.
"privacy Frameworks such as sock 2 ISO 27 ,1 gdpr Hippa and many more vanta helps companies obtain the reports they need to accelerate growth build efficient compliance processes mitigate risks to thei..."
The Power of Category Design
Christopher Lochhead discusses the critical role of category design in determining a company's success. He shares insights from a study showing that the leading company in a tech market category captures 76% of the total market value. Lochhead emphasizes the importance of designing a category rather than merely competing for a small share of an existing market, highlighting the distinction between creating demand and capturing demand.
"who broke and took newr and the AHA here is the category makes the product the category makes the brand the category makes the company so I'll give you the the the data and then I'll fully answer your..."
Reimagining Problems: The Gojo Example
Lochhead illustrates the concept of category design using the example of Gojo Industries, the creator of Purell. He explains how the founders redefined the problem of handwashing by focusing on the unpleasantness of bar soap, leading to the creation of liquid soap and ultimately hand sanitizer. This shift in perspective exemplifies how identifying and addressing a problem can lead to the design of a new market category.
"two-thirds of the economics so the AHA here Lenny is when we make the unquestioned unconsidered UND dialogued decision that we didn't know that we made to compete we have unwittingly said we're we're ..."
The Importance of Problem Focus
In this segment, Lochhead emphasizes the necessity for companies to focus on the problem they are solving rather than just the solution they offer. He argues that successful innovators, like Gojo, prioritize understanding the core issue and ask different questions to create new categories. This approach leads to significant differentiation and market leadership.
"if I could own any product in the world right now I think I'd probably want to own purel and there's a great thing about the company that makes purel the company's been around for a very very long tim..."
The Challenge of Category Expansion
Lochhead discusses the challenges faced by successful companies as they grow within their categories. He explains that many entrepreneurs find their growth limited by their current market category and must continuously expand their vision to avoid stagnation. This segment highlights the importance of evolving category definitions to maintain competitive advantage.
"want to talk to me about our [ __ ] I want to talk all about it we could do a 12-h hour uh Deep dive on all your content and how you built the newsletter and the right and you'd love it it'd be great ..."
Gong's Strategic Missteps
Christopher Lochhead analyzes Gong's approach in the emerging revenue operations space. He praises their initial strategy of targeting a specific niche but warns that failing to expand beyond that niche can lead to diminished growth. Lochhead emphasizes the need for companies to set the agenda for their categories to avoid being outpaced by competitors.
"now on their homepage you'll see a Gartner report or a Forester report on their homepage you'll see ads Andor content that say here are three competitors and a list of features and there'll be 25 feat..."
The Dangers of Staying Niche
In this segment, Lochhead elaborates on the risks associated with remaining in a niche market. He explains that companies like Gong, which initially thrived in their specific areas, may struggle to grow if they do not broaden their category vision. Lochhead stresses the importance of adapting to market changes and expanding to capture larger opportunities.
"going to go build that you're going to show up and say we have a suite that's equivalent to that of sap just for this other area so they pick off a very tight part of a broader emerging C category and..."
The Better Trap: A Cautionary Tale
Lochhead introduces the concept of the 'better trap,' where companies focus on being a better solution within an existing category rather than creating a new one. He uses the example of Threads, which attempted to position itself as a superior alternative to Twitter but ultimately failed to capture lasting interest. This segment underscores the importance of reframing problems to create new categories.
"category and so you have to continuously expand the vision for the category and continuously build on that and if you don't and somebody else frames claims and names the bigger agenda as has been the ..."
Threads: A Case Study in Category Failure
Christopher Lochhead analyzes the launch of Threads, highlighting its initial success and subsequent decline. He argues that despite having significant distribution advantages, Threads failed because it did not address a new problem or reframe an existing one. This segment illustrates the pitfalls of relying solely on product improvements without a strong category design.
"follow but something I definitely wanted to touch on is you have this concept of the better trap which is where most people go where they try to be the better solution in an existing category and just..."
Creating vs. Capturing Categories
In this concluding segment, Lochhead emphasizes the distinction between creating new categories and capturing existing ones. He argues that true innovation requires either solving a new problem or reframing an existing one in a novel way. This perspective challenges the conventional belief that the best product always wins, highlighting the importance of category design in achieving market success.
"quiet so the legendary Kevin man said that category design is a new lens on business it's a different lens it sits next to the product lens it sits next to the competition lens but it is equally impor..."
The Myth of Product Superiority
In this segment, Lochhead argues against the belief that a product must be ten times better to succeed. He shares examples of failed products, like the Amazon Fire Phone, to illustrate that without a clear understanding of the problem being solved, even superior products can fail to gain traction.
"on the wrong salable the ossus is on the product because we live in a world where just like the availability of oxygen we believe the best product wins Zuckerberg is going to blow in excess of a billi..."
Lessons from Red Bull's Mistake
Lochhead draws parallels between Red Bull's failed cola product and Meta's Threads, emphasizing that strong brands cannot simply apply their name to new products without understanding the underlying category dynamics. He highlights the importance of category creation over brand recognition.
"like it's the same thing but 10 times better or do you have to In your experience reframe and I want to talk about that but let's just look at the evidence so we can agree that Jeff Bezos is not a dum..."
The Cost of Imitation
Discussing Microsoft's failed retail stores, Lochhead illustrates the pitfalls of imitating successful competitors without a unique value proposition. He stresses that attacking an incumbent category requires a fresh perspective on the problem rather than a mere replication of existing solutions.
"they go oh great we can put our brand on anything and it'll sell so let's make Cola they lost a bazillion dollars um it's reported that Microsoft lost somewhere between $400 and a billion dollars in M..."
The Future of Innovation
Lochhead warns that many venture capitalists will continue to invest in me-too products that fail to address real problems. He reflects on the tragedy of innovative ideas that never see the light of day due to a lack of understanding of category design principles.
"new solution even if people qu un hate Twitter didn't do anything to Twitter and now ze's going to have to write off probably over a billion dollars on threads and and the funny thing is Lenny this ju..."
Designing a New Category
In this segment, Lochhead introduces the concept of 'Frame It, Name It, Claim It' as a framework for designing new categories. He emphasizes the importance of starting with deep thinking about the problem to create a compelling category narrative.
"entrepreneur believed in the product but didn't know that every solution has to fit into a problem of value for people and so their Innovation went nowhere let's talk about how to actually go about de..."
Reflective vs. Reflexive Thinking
Lochhead distinguishes between reflective and reflexive thinking, explaining how most people operate on autopilot without challenging their assumptions. He argues that legendary entrepreneurs think differently, envisioning a future that diverges from the present.
"management thinker or certainly one of them alive today uh we lucky enough to have him on the podcast when his last most recent book came out which I if I'm remembering correctly is called the new way..."
The Mindset of Legendary Entrepreneurs
Lochhead shares insights on the mindset of successful entrepreneurs, who are often seen as 'visitors from the future.' He discusses how their obsession with solving significant problems drives them to innovate and design new futures.
"just does this twitch right so that's a reflex and reflexive thinking is very very powerful you have a driver's license I'm guessing I do and when was last time you were in a vehicle driving uh yester..."
The Story of Lomi
Lochhead introduces Lomi, a kitchen appliance that revolutionizes composting. He explains how Lomi created a new category by addressing the significant problem of food waste and how their innovative approach has led to rapid growth and consumer acceptance.
"experienced in this field that have meaningfully different opinions in my own oh there are okay well why is that etc etc etc we don't [ __ ] do that we say our opinion on abortion is the opinion on ab..."
Creating Demand Through Category Design
In this segment, Lochhead elaborates on how Lomi framed their product not as a better garbage solution but as a new way to tackle food waste. He emphasizes the importance of aligning personal motivations with broader environmental goals to create demand.
"are obsessed they're they it drives them insane they don't understand why we're not all in EVS already and so my friend Mike Maples the legendary Adventure capitalist from Floodgate says the greatest ..."
The Power of Languaging
Lochhead discusses the strategic use of language in category design, illustrating how effective languaging can reshape consumer perceptions. He shares the story of Otis Elevators to demonstrate how framing a problem can lead to category leadership.
"composter so imagine a device that's sort of one and a half or twice the size of a of a good siiz toaster and uh what Lomi does is you take your food scraps and it turns out that uh depending on whose..."
The Power of Languaging in Category Design
Christopher Lochhead discusses the concept of 'languaging' in category design, emphasizing the strategic use of language to reshape perceptions and thinking. He illustrates this with the story of Alicia Otis, who invented the safety elevator and reframed the category by introducing the term 'vertical railway' to create demand where none existed. This segment highlights the importance of innovative language in establishing new categories and driving market understanding.
"of their First Investors wow okay so I have their site up so thinking about this framework of frame name it claim it they framed the problem in this unique way of like is it the the framing of the pro..."
Creating New Categories: The Vertical Railway
In this segment, Lochhead elaborates on how Alicia Otis successfully created a new category for elevators by reframing the conversation around safety. By naming it the 'vertical railway,' he made the concept relatable and understandable, thus generating demand for skyscrapers. This example underscores the significance of framing and naming in category design, demonstrating how effective languaging can lead to innovation and market creation.
"called it the safety elevator to address the current problem in the space which is I don't know people still went okay that's interesting but like why do I need a safety elevator it's a solution with ..."
Starbucks and the Art of Languaging
Lochhead shares how Starbucks revolutionized the coffee industry through innovative languaging. By creating a new lexicon around coffee sizes and types, they transformed consumer expectations and perceptions, allowing them to charge premium prices. This segment illustrates the impact of language on consumer behavior and market positioning, emphasizing that the company that defines the category language often wins.
"minute what if it was a vertical Railway oh well what could we do with a vertical Railway and so this is why thinking matters the way you think about the problem the way you frame claim and name the p..."
The Importance of Category Language
Christopher Lochhead discusses the critical role of language in defining categories, using examples from the tech industry. He highlights how terms like 'large language model' have become standard, shaping industry discussions and perceptions. This segment emphasizes that creating new language not only influences thinking but also establishes a competitive edge in the marketplace.
"buildings I really like this idea of languaging are there any other examples come to mind have awesome examples of languaging in action that worked out I got a bazillion of them okay another one of my..."
Backcasting vs. Forecasting in Category Design
In this insightful segment, Lochhead contrasts backcasting with forecasting as a strategic approach in category design. He explains how envisioning a successful future and working backward can lead to innovative solutions, rather than being constrained by past experiences. This method encourages entrepreneurs to think unconventionally and create categories that address unrecognized needs.
"other conversation the point being if you want to charge three bucks for something that here to for has been 10 cents or a quarter change the language and you know it's Starbucks language if you like ..."
Rejecting Premises for Innovation
Lochhead emphasizes the importance of rejecting existing premises to foster innovation. He shares a unique exercise where participants design a bicycle that cannot be ridden, illustrating how removing constraints can lead to groundbreaking ideas. This segment highlights the necessity of thinking outside the box to create new categories and avoid incremental improvements that fail to capture market attention.
"perceived value and she who changes Endor creates net new value perceptions wins this episode is brought to you by round round is the private Network built by Tech leaders for Tech leaders round combi..."
Obsessing Over Problems, Not Solutions
In this segment, Lochhead advises entrepreneurs to focus more on understanding the problems they aim to solve rather than jumping straight to solutions. He shares a case study of a security startup that prioritizes customer feedback to identify core issues. This approach is crucial for effective category design and ensuring that new products resonate with market needs.
"solution so there's a very early stage uh uh security startup I'm working with right now in the AI space that's doing absolutely mind-boggling things and the founders have incredible backgrounds with ..."
Unshackling from the Past
Christopher Lochhead discusses the concept of category design, emphasizing the importance of envisioning a radically different future rather than being constrained by past references. He critiques the notion of disruption, arguing that it often leads to incremental improvements rather than groundbreaking innovations. Lochhead introduces the idea of 'thinking wrong' to foster creativity and explore new possibilities.
"for customers how big's our company how many people H and then we say okay standing in that future five years out looking back to the present what did we do to make this different future happen that's..."
The Cost of Category Design
In this segment, Lochhead addresses the common misconception that designing a new category is expensive and time-consuming. He compares the challenges of category design to those of product development, highlighting that both require significant effort and investment. He argues that creating a new category is essential for building a successful business and that the potential rewards far outweigh the costs.
"this is the mistake that many many entrepreneurs make is they whether they realize it or not what they're doing is incremental better and they're fighting for market share fighting for existing Demand..."
The Myth of Product-Market Fit
Lochhead presents a provocative perspective on the concept of product-market fit, labeling it a dangerous idea. He explains that the traditional view focuses on fitting products into existing markets, which can limit innovation. Instead, he advocates for designing new market categories that products can fill, emphasizing that true success comes from creating new insights and solutions for customers.
"want to be easy go work at the [ __ ] DMV that's kind of point a point B is the reality Len when you look at it the the vast majority of innovation comes from startups so people say only big companies..."
The Role of Categories in Innovation
In this segment, Lochhead elaborates on the relationship between categories and products, asserting that categories shape products rather than the other way around. He critiques the tech industry's focus on product superiority and argues that successful marketing should center around customer needs and insights. Lochhead emphasizes that understanding and designing categories is crucial for meaningful innovation.
"raise money the VCS who invest in early stage Mass potential companies are the ones who see your different future kind of along those lines I had this note that you had this quote around product Marke..."
The Importance of Customer-Centricity
Lochhead stresses the significance of understanding customer needs over promoting products. He argues that customers are primarily interested in their own problems and opportunities, not the intricacies of a product's features. This segment highlights the need for businesses to focus on creating solutions that resonate with customers rather than merely showcasing product attributes.
"other way around and so what you want is you want to design a market category for your product not fit your product into a market category and the problem is our industry like many others but the tech..."
Competing Against the Status Quo
Lochhead introduces the concept of 'damning the demand,' where businesses should focus on reframing problems rather than competing directly with existing products. He uses examples from the fitness industry to illustrate how new categories can emerge by addressing customer pain points. This segment emphasizes the need for category designers to challenge the status quo and create innovative solutions.
"can say and can't say about the data but one of the things we wanted to understand is what categories of business books sold and which categories didn't and why we can get into all that if you want bu..."
Positioning vs. Category Design
In this segment, Lochhead contrasts traditional positioning strategies with category design. He argues that positioning often leads to competition over a small market share, while category design focuses on creating entirely new markets. Lochhead asserts that successful innovators do not merely differentiate their products but instead redefine the market landscape.
"we're definitely going long which I expected and we've actually gone through most of the questions I had but I have just a few more to kind of close out the conversation one is positioning that's some..."
Creating New Demand
Lochhead discusses how successful category designers create new demand rather than competing for existing market share. He provides examples from the cycling industry to illustrate how reframing problems can lead to innovative solutions that resonate with customers. This segment reinforces the idea that true innovation comes from addressing unmet needs and creating new categories.
"that's what's true look at look at any space you want you want to go back to your list we can go through the list right and so positioning has become sort of category design for the cowards right it's..."
The Electric Guitar Analogy
Lochhead uses the example of the electric guitar to illustrate how new categories can coexist with existing ones without disrupting them. He explains that the introduction of electric guitars increased overall demand for guitars rather than replacing acoustic guitars, highlighting the importance of creating net new demand in category design.
"squirrels and the [ __ ] raccoons eat it that's the personal upset and the environmental one is we're destroying the planet no by the way rather than destroy the planet why not create this super aweso..."
The Magic Triangle of Category Design
In this segment, Lochhead introduces the 'Magic Triangle' concept, which emphasizes the equal importance of product, company, and category in achieving success. He argues that effective category design is crucial for product success and that neglecting this aspect can lead to failure.
"[ __ ] so in that case you're actually creating net new demand in the pelaton example you're both creating net new demand and you're getting your start and this is where I think a lot of the discussio..."
Lightning Strikes vs. Peanut Butter Marketing
Lochhead contrasts the 'lightning strike' marketing approach with traditional 'peanut butter' marketing strategies. He advocates for making a significant impact in a short time rather than spreading efforts thinly over the year, drawing parallels to Hollywood's marketing strategies for movie launches.
"just as a last question can you just share a few of these laws maybe two or three of your favorite laws from the book just to give people a sense of the book I think we talked about law number one whi..."
The Power of Word of Mouth
Lochhead emphasizes the importance of word of mouth (WOM) as the most powerful form of marketing. He discusses how effective category design can leverage WOM to create significant growth and engagement, particularly in the digital landscape.
"you know B2B or BC doesn't matter and that's what they do and what they don't realize Lenny is that approach that peanut butter approach is predicated on a almost hundredy old mental scaffolding and m..."
Understanding Super Consumers
In this segment, Lochhead explains the concept of 'super consumers'—the small percentage of buyers who drive the majority of profits. He discusses how identifying and understanding these consumers can inform marketing strategies and enhance category design efforts.
"work and so uh because the number of marketing messages we get is massive there's there experts who say we get up to 60,000 a day whether it's you know logos on coffee cups or ads on the internet and ..."
Creating a Compelling Point of View
Lochhead discusses the importance of crafting a compelling point of view (POV) in category design. He explains how a well-articulated POV can resonate with super consumers and drive engagement, ultimately leading to growth and success.
"strategy go hang out where they are put something provocative and engaging in front of them and matter in that moment so the idea of a lightning strike is if you're in our target audience for that day..."
The Future Needs You
Lochhead delivers an inspiring message about the current era being the greatest time for innovation and entrepreneurship. He encourages listeners to embrace their potential to create exponential change and not to be deterred by negativity or doubt.
"Mouth this boggles our minds those of us in category design because wam is was and always will be the most powerful form of marketing and in the native Digital World wam can spread in a way that was n..."
The Greatest Time to Create
Christopher Lochhead emphasizes that now is the greatest time in history to be a creator, entrepreneur, or marketer. He encourages innovative individuals to embrace the current technological advancements and make an exponential difference in the world. Lochhead believes that the future needs those who are willing to stand up and take advantage of these opportunities, especially the younger generations who are native to digital technologies.
"dangerous concerning do we need to focus on the downside do we need to be smart do we need to be thoughtful do we need to learn do we need to work with uh regulators and legisl absolutely could it go ..."
Embrace Your Unique Path
Lochhead discusses the importance of finding or creating your unique place in the world, particularly for innovators and entrepreneurs. He highlights that many individuals may not fit into traditional roles and encourages them to carve out their own paths. This segment underscores the essence of category design as a means to establish a distinct identity for oneself, one’s product, and company.
"and what I would say to you is the future needs you most people are not working on the exponential different and so the future of our world requires that the Innovative people that the entrepreneurial..."
The Call to Action for Innovators
In this passionate call to action, Lochhead urges listeners to make a difference by leveraging their unique perspectives and capabilities. He stresses that those who are different are the ones who create the most significant impact. This segment serves as an inspiring reminder for entrepreneurs to embrace their individuality and contribute value to the world through innovative category design.
"than right now I love that message your just passion and energy for creating and inspiring is comes through really clearly in all your writing and so I love hearing it in person with that we reached o..."
Lightning Round Insights
In the lightning round, Lochhead shares his favorite books and a recent TV show he enjoyed. He recommends Richard Bach's 'Illusions' and Mark McCormack's 'What They Don't Teach You at the Harvard Business School.' This segment provides a glimpse into Lochhead's personal interests and influences, showcasing his eclectic taste in literature and media.
"they don't teach you at the Harvard business school what is a favorite recent movie or TV show that you really enjoyed oh right now we're watching designing Anna or inventing Anna or whatever that's c..."
Powerful Interview Questions
Lochhead reveals his favorite interview questions, emphasizing the importance of open-ended inquiries. He discusses how asking 'Is there anything else?' can often elicit crucial information from candidates. This segment highlights the significance of communication and the art of interviewing, providing valuable insights for listeners interested in hiring practices.
"that one what is a favorite inter question you like to ask candidates when you're hiring people so there's actually two uh and I'll start with the second most important interview question which I thin..."
Life Lessons from the Top
In this segment, Lochhead shares his life motto about helping others once you've reached success. He reflects on his journey and the support he received along the way, emphasizing the importance of lifting others as you climb. This message resonates with the theme of community and mentorship, encouraging listeners to give back and support those who are still on their journey.
"favorite my first favorite is so Lenny are you legendary you want me to answer that you can if you like or not no I I will but the answer to that question yeah what are you looking for is always radic..."
The Pirate Spirit
Lochhead shares a fun anecdote about his favorite 'pirate,' Tony Etherington, a legendary surfer. He recounts a memorable surf adventure that embodies the spirit of adventure and risk-taking. This light-hearted segment illustrates Lochhead's personality and his belief in embracing challenges, paralleling the concept of being a 'category pirate' in business.
"life you know when I was young I started with nothing and I got thrown out of school and I didn't know until I was 21 because when I was young learning differences weren't a thing and by the way the w..."
Final Thoughts and Resources
As the conversation wraps up, Lochhead provides listeners with resources to learn more about category design and how to connect with him. He emphasizes the importance of courage in making a difference and encourages aspiring entrepreneurs to pursue their unique paths. This closing segment reinforces the episode's themes of innovation and category creation.
"this question L to something fun and interesting Chris thank you so much for being here this conversation was entertaining insightful spicy fun funny everything I hoped it would be two final questions..."