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90 Minutes of Unfiltered Writing Advice — Mark Manson
46 segments available
Sign Up for "Writing Examples" and Learn From The Best Writing of All Time: https://www.writingexamples.com In this episode, we dive deep into how Mark Manson stays true to his own voice. You’ll learn how he 3X’d his audience in just a few months; how he wrote Will Smith’s memoir; and how he combines quality ideas, catchy titles, and whip-smart marketing. We cover the evolution of ideas, how to structure them, the “awkward teenage phase” of writing, and how to write in a way that spreads on the Internet. TIMESTAMPS: 00:00:00 Intro 00:00:42 Early Days of Blogging 00:02:35 Implementation vs Theory 00:05:00 Philosophy 00:06:30 Reading 00:09:00 Education 00:13:45 Blogger to Writer 00:17:00 Brand 00:20:05 Fame 00:22:55 The Subtle Art of Not Giving A F*ck 00:24:50 Audiobooks 00:29:15 Different Mediums like YouTube 00:30:15 Writing a book 00:37:00 Copywriting 00:40:10 What is Mark really good at? 00:44:30 Mark's Career 00:49:00 Cultivating Style & Taste 00:51:00 Reading 00:58:00 Mark's writing advice 01:01:30 Mark's writing style 01:04:55 Mark's writing process 01:09:00 Introductions 01:11:00 Will Smith 01:26:25 Writer's block SPEAKER LINKS: Website: https://markmanson.net/ Books: https://markmanson.net/books Twitter: https://twitter.com/IAmMarkManson WRITE OF PASSAGE: Want to learn more about the next class for Write of Passage? Click here: https://writeofpassage.school PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://writeofpassage.school/how-i-write/ Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv ABOUT THE HOST: I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. How I Write is a podcast by Write of Passage // Production by Adam Soccolich
Segments Timeline
Imagining the Scene
Mark Manson shares his approach to writing by visualizing himself in a social setting, emphasizing the importance of making the reader feel present in the scene. He reflects on the growth of his blog audience from 100,000 to 2 million readers, attributing this success to his understanding of copywriting and the power of descriptive writing.
"whenever I write I always try to imagine myself in a bar or a restaurant what would I say out loud if you can make the reader see the scene that's when it comes alive my blog went from maybe 100,000 m..."
The Power of Practical Learning
Mark discusses how he transitioned from reading dating blogs to writing, highlighting the realization that practical skills can be learned through reading. He reflects on his early influences, including Neil Strauss's 'The Game,' and how it sparked his understanding of social skills as something that can be actively improved.
"yeah you were one of the guys who B me into online reading which then got me into online writing and it was cuz I read your dating blog in college and actually the thing that got me really excited was..."
Implementation vs. Theory
In this segment, Mark explores the balance between theoretical knowledge and practical implementation in personal development. He emphasizes that understanding concepts is not enough; one must also take action to see real change, illustrating the necessity of both theory and practice in achieving personal growth.
"solve my problems which was like a brain explosion yeah that that's honestly that was the Epiphany for me about five years before that when I found Neil Strauss as the game yeah it just it's funny bec..."
Introspection and Philosophy
Mark reflects on his upbringing in a conservative environment and how it shaped his introspective nature. He discusses his early interest in philosophy, the challenges of communication within his family, and how these experiences fueled his curiosity about human behavior and motivations.
"really going to work and so there it's kind of this weird marriage between the two and I think earlier in my career I was very FOC I thought the theories and the Frameworks were bad and so a lot of th..."
The Reading Revelation
Mark recounts his journey into reading, highlighting Stephen King's 'It' as a pivotal book that ignited his passion for literature. He shares how reading became a source of enjoyment and inspiration, leading him to explore various genres and authors, ultimately shaping his writing style.
"introspective and very curious about motivations and why do people do the things they do you know I would see my parents behave one way at church and then they'd come home and behave a completely diff..."
The Writing Big Bang
Mark discusses the moment he realized he wanted to pursue writing seriously, sparked by his exposure to David Foster Wallace's work. He reflects on how Wallace's insightful and descriptive writing inspired him to aim for a similar impact in his own writing, marking a significant turning point in his career.
"read a lot of Stephen King I read a lot of Michael kon's books in in middle school and like early High School uh and just really loved it it reading was always it's funny my Amazon account goes all th..."
From Hobby to Career
In this segment, Mark shares his early experiences with writing, initially viewing it as a hobby rather than a career. He discusses how his struggles with traditional education and writing led him to discover the joy of blogging, which eventually became a viable career path.
"initially when I was say in college or whatever and this is I I think the reason for this is I got bad grades in writing all through school yeah me too yeah I was so bad at writing I couldn't spell it..."
The Influence of David Foster Wallace
Mark elaborates on his admiration for David Foster Wallace, particularly his essay 'This is Water.' He describes how Wallace's unique perspective and writing style influenced his own approach to writing, inspiring him to strive for depth and insight in his work.
"and then when I started my internet businesses I started blogging because that's how you got traffic back then so you had the blog and it never even occurred to me that that was actually the better ca..."
Descriptive Writing Mastery
Mark discusses the brilliance of Wallace's descriptive writing, using examples from Wallace's essays to illustrate how specific observations can resonate deeply with readers. He emphasizes the importance of detail and insight in creating engaging and thought-provoking content.
"what he's going to write and so he he wrote a whole piece about it and that that piece was so unbelievably insightful observant thoughtful funny like he he would go on the I remember there's one part ..."
Embracing the Writer's Journey
Mark reflects on his transition to focusing solely on writing, describing how this shift felt liberating and natural. He shares how dedicating himself to writing led to significant growth in his audience and reinforced his belief in pursuing what feels like play in one's career.
"descriptiveness and it blew my head off yeah it it was incredibly inspiring and so that book was the moment that I was like I want to do this I want to be able to give people this feeling uh and and I..."
Finding Your Writing Focus
In this segment, Mark discusses his strategy for choosing writing topics, emphasizing the importance of aligning personal interests with audience expectations. He describes the intersection of what excites him, what his audience wants, and what benefits his brand, highlighting the dynamic nature of content creation.
"something in the next few months and I was like oh okay this this makes sense now when you thought about what you were going to write about did you focus on hey this sounds interesting I'm just going ..."
The Accidental Brand Evolution
Manson reflects on the evolution of his career, from internet blogger to mainstream writer, and how many of his brand decisions were made by seizing unexpected opportunities. He shares insights on the importance of experimentation in branding and how iconic elements, like the cover of his book, emerged from trial and error.
"much I feel like you're so perceptive with the brand stuff it's interesting that you said earlier that hey the marketing stuff didn't come naturally to me because when I look at the Arc of your career..."
Testing Ideas and Audience Feedback
Mark explains his process for testing new ideas and designs, including the cover of his book. He describes how he sought feedback from trusted individuals and fans, emphasizing the importance of personal excitement in the creative process and the role of audience testing in refining his work.
"Splat uh so Harper sent me the cover for subtle art and originally it was just an asteris and I was like this is so boring and so I actually put it in Photoshop and I started like testing a bunch of d..."
Transitioning to Mainstream Fame
Manson shares his experience transitioning from internet fame to mainstream recognition. He contrasts the two types of fame, noting the differences in how he is approached by fans and the challenges of maintaining relatability as his public persona evolves.
"feel too so yeah it's some combo of personal taste and it it's kind of like con concentric circles you know it's like in in the center you've got to be super excited about it like don't let anything i..."
The Challenge of Relatability
In this segment, Mark discusses the struggle of maintaining relatability as he gains fame. He reflects on how success can distance a writer from their audience and the importance of staying grounded in personal experiences to connect with readers.
"there's more of an understanding of like you have your own life and and I'm not going to bother you whereas I think when you're kind of Internet famous uh all the other people who are doing things on ..."
Realizing Book Success
Mark recounts the slow realization of his book's success, detailing its initial launch and subsequent rise in popularity. He reflects on how it took time for him to accept that his work would have lasting impact, highlighting the gap between expectations and reality in the publishing world.
"much what was the moment when you realized that your first book was going to be huge it took a couple years years oh wow um so first of all it was a slow burn leading up so it LO it came out it had it..."
The Audiobook Experience
Manson shares insights into the creation of his audiobook, discussing how it was initially an afterthought. He highlights the importance of choosing the right narrator and the unexpected success of the audiobook format in reaching a wider audience.
"a long time I think up until that point I was just kind of like oh cool I caught another lucky Break um it hit number one in India wow that's really lucky like wonder how long that's going to last and..."
Lessons from New Mediums
In this segment, Mark reflects on the challenges of adapting his writing for different mediums, including audiobooks and YouTube. He emphasizes the need for careful consideration and adaptation when transitioning ideas across formats, sharing lessons learned from his experiences.
"lot of that growth curve so back in 2015 nobody really thought a whole lot about audiobooks and there was zero pressure for me to read it myself zero expectation authors didn't really read their own b..."
Organizing Ideas with Scrivener
Mark discusses his writing process using Scrivener, a tool he adopted while writing 'The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck.' He explains how the software aids in organizing ideas and structuring his books, while also acknowledging its limitations in later stages of writing.
"do over the top of it right um so yeah it was a very complicated project what's the lesson from that the lesson from that I guess was uh don't underestimate a new medium which I've done consistently u..."
The Power of Strong Ideas
In this segment, Mark emphasizes that the strength of an idea is crucial for effective writing. He reflects on how a strong idea makes writing easier, while a weak idea complicates the process. He shares personal insights on how he identifies compelling topics and the importance of research in crafting impactful narratives.
"eventually anyway yeah so that I just make I make the switch over at that point what do you feel is the Lynch pin for your writing do you feel like it's a really good oneliner you think it's like a re..."
The Art of Crafting Headlines
Mark Manson explains how his blog's success was driven by the strategic use of catchy headlines during the Facebook era. He discusses the significance of titles and images in generating clicks and shares how he learned from successful publications like BuzzFeed and Upworthy to enhance his writing's virality.
"wow I've never heard that before I'm like all right I'm on to something there like that's when I really have it and I just think the barbell is super interesting because ah this is like mildly difficu..."
SEO and Viral Success
Mark shares his experience with SEO and how his ability to create viral content on social media inadvertently boosted his search engine rankings. He reflects on the relationship between social media engagement and SEO success, emphasizing that much of his visibility came as a byproduct of his viral writing.
"and that's where I really refined that that skill of and realizing too that you don't necessarily because before that it was always about the idea it was like okay what's a really cool idea that I cou..."
Tuning into the Zeitgeist
Mark discusses his knack for identifying cultural trends and how he positions himself within them. He reflects on his early adoption of new ideas and platforms, explaining how his boredom with conventional media drives him to seek out fresh perspectives and engage with emerging content forms.
"was talking to our friend Taylor Pearson who was in a writing group with you in New York and I want to hear about this writing group but one of the things I said yeah what what is Mark really really g..."
Transitioning to Self-Help
Mark reflects on his evolution from writing about dating to broader self-help topics. He explains how he recognized the underlying personal issues behind dating problems and shifted his focus to personal development, which resonated with a wider audience and led to the success of 'The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck.'
"intuitive tracker on this is you you go to the front Shelf at a bookstore you look at the non-fiction books what percentage of those people started off as bloggers and a few years ago it was like 10% ..."
Developing a Distinct Writing Style
In this segment, Mark shares insights into cultivating his unique writing voice. He emphasizes the importance of authenticity in his writing process and how he strives to communicate as if speaking to a friend, which helps him maintain a relatable and engaging style.
"for that piece that's such a good title yeah um choose your struggles um you are not special uh I I just like had a whole string of them and it just like people started eating that up I found that my ..."
The Awkward Teenage Phase of Writing
Manson describes the 'awkward teenage phase' in creative pursuits, where writers experiment with different styles and voices before finding their own. He explains that this phase is essential for growth, as it allows writers to explore various influences and ultimately discover their authentic expression. The conversation highlights the inevitability of ridicule in the creative process.
"sort of like your description for the guy who you wanted to read your audio book yeah you cuz you used Tipsy yes and it is funny that I I guess this is something I haven't really thought about before ..."
Read Books, Not Blogs
Mark Manson advises aspiring writers to focus on reading books rather than blogs to cultivate original ideas. He warns against becoming too absorbed in the current trends, which can stifle creativity. Manson encourages readers to explore diverse genres and subjects to draw unique connections and insights that can enrich their writing.
"really be yourself I agree with that I I feel like there's kind of an awkward teenage phase yeah with any creative Pursuit where you have to try to fit in with a a bunch of different crowds and then b..."
The Value of Interesting Ideas
In this segment, Manson discusses the importance of presenting ideas in a fresh and engaging manner. He emphasizes that the best books challenge conventional thinking and offer new perspectives. Manson shares insights on how to make ideas interesting by flipping them around and presenting them in unexpected ways, enhancing the reader's experience.
"within somebody's own mind with aspects of their identity maybe there's a market-based system inside our minds where different aspects of our identity are like trading self-esteem to you know I'm like..."
The Power of Repetition in Writing
Mark Manson explores the role of repetition in effective writing. He reflects on how certain phrases can resonate deeply with readers when used strategically. Manson shares examples from his own work and discusses how repetition can create a rhythmic quality that enhances the emotional impact of the writing.
"that perform the best for me they they dudes seem to be common threads like inversion is like a obvious one um but it'd be nice to see like just a list of them somewhere yeah there's a book called The..."
Quality Traffic Over Quantity
Manson emphasizes the importance of focusing on quality traffic rather than sheer numbers when building an audience. He advises writers to first understand their unique voice and what they enjoy creating before seeking a larger audience. This segment highlights the necessity of honing one's craft before attempting to appeal to a broader audience.
"oh damn that landed there's something yeah there is something about the just human psychology repetition Rhythm tell me about this you have this awesome Kora keys from years ago practical writing advi..."
Writing First, Branding Second
In this segment, Manson discusses the priority of writing quality content before establishing a personal brand. He stresses that understanding what one is passionate about and what resonates with readers is crucial for developing a successful online presence. Manson shares insights on how to evolve one's brand based on the writing journey.
"written a 100 posts you generally have no clue what you enjoy writing about or what people enjoy reading from you you have not developed anything close to decent writing chops and you have no chance a..."
The Journey to Finding Your Audience
Mark Manson reflects on the early days of his writing career, sharing how he initially connected with a small audience. He describes the excitement of reaching readers beyond his immediate circle and the importance of persistence in building a following. This segment captures the transformative experience of growing as a writer and finding one's voice.
"about or you're you're trying to be somebody else you're trying to be something else uh and it feels very in congruent so the people who know you see that and they're like this is weird you know um bu..."
The Melodic Nature of Writing
Mark Manson discusses how he optimizes his writing for a melodic flow, prioritizing emotional resonance over strict adherence to detail. He reflects on the balance between truth and resonance, explaining how poetic expressions can sometimes lack logical clarity, yet still evoke strong emotional responses from readers.
"always thought of writing in terms of sound so what you were saying about the JFK thing yeah like I'm always thinking about that yeah I'm like I'm always optimizing maybe this is why the audiobooks do..."
The Fractal Experience of Writing a Book
Manson shares his insights on the writing process, particularly the challenges faced in the early chapters of a book. He describes the common pitfalls of losing excitement and clarity as the writing progresses, emphasizing the need to refine initial ideas and outlines to create a cohesive narrative.
"made nobody Happy Well if you take truth and resonance to their logical extremes they actually begin to contradict each other sometimes so you would think just that's true therefore that resonates but..."
Overcoming Writer's Block
Mark Manson reveals his experiences with writer's block and the moments of doubt that arise during the writing process. He discusses how organizational challenges often lead to breakthroughs, allowing him to restructure his ideas and find clarity in his writing.
"is it's it's almost fractal so there's almost like a mini book experience in and of itself with like the first three chapters which is basically what I've discovered is chapter one is always exciting ..."
The Art of Structuring Ideas
In this segment, Manson explains how the organization of ideas can make or break a book. He shares his experience with 'The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck,' detailing how he rearranged chapters to enhance the flow and impact of the narrative, ultimately leading to a more engaging reading experience.
"on books yeah yeah yeah I've quit on on a couple different books was there a moment from setle art or any of the other books where you were like stuck and something clicked yeah with subtle art it was..."
Collaborating with Will Smith
Mark Manson recounts his journey of working with Will Smith on his memoir. He describes the initial meetings, the chemistry they developed, and how he helped Smith structure his life stories into impactful themes that resonate with readers, showcasing the collaborative nature of writing.
"I I used to get over the years you know it doesn't happen often but it's I'd say every year or two I get an email that's like really insightful and helpful and I had a guy he emailed me this is probab..."
Crafting Emotional Arcs
Manson discusses the importance of emotional arcs in storytelling, particularly in Will Smith's memoir. He explains how he identified key emotional themes in Smith's life and structured the narrative to reflect a journey from fear to love, creating a relatable and powerful story for readers.
"with that um so yeah it's it's all over the place tell me about how you met Will Smith and what that project was like so meeting Will Smith is not simple no kidding it's not as simple Endeavor as you ..."
Researching for Authenticity
In this segment, Manson elaborates on his research process while writing Smith's memoir. He shares how he immersed himself in Smith's life by interviewing family members and visiting significant locations, emphasizing the importance of authenticity and detail in creating a vivid narrative.
"months I flew out and met him uh on set of one of his one of his movies hung out with him for three or four days and uh we just really hit it off like we have a very natural chemistry we both we both ..."
Painting the Scene
Mark Manson shares his approach to vividly describing scenes in writing, using a specific example of capturing a moment in a black church in West Philly. He emphasizes the importance of sensory details and creating a visual experience for the reader, drawing inspiration from Robert Caro's interviewing technique of asking what he would see in a scene.
"just I need to be able to describe this it's really just a paragraph right it's like and I think what I ended up writing was like the cuz he had told me the kind of music that they used to sing like t..."
The Importance of Detail
Manson discusses the significance of detailed descriptions in writing, recalling how he had Will Smith draw a floor plan of his childhood home to capture the essence of his experiences. This method helps Manson visualize the scenes he needs to write about, ensuring authenticity and depth in storytelling.
"requires going to West Philly and taking a video of the church right yeah so when Robert Caro was doing his biographies of Lyndon B Johnson and still now he's writing his last one the thing that he do..."
Navigating Conversations with Will Smith
Mark Manson reflects on the challenges of interviewing Will Smith, noting that gaining deeper insights often requires more time than he was able to secure. He shares his strategy of shadowing Smith and corroborating stories with family members to enrich the narrative he was crafting.
"it in this head I I when I worked with him I always talked about it being downloading the data from his brain to mine yeah and there's something link for writing exactly and there's some things you ca..."
The Flow of Writing
Manson describes the writing process for Will Smith's memoir as both challenging and enjoyable. He highlights how the collaboration allowed him to curate Smith's stories without the self-doubt that often accompanies personal writing, making the experience feel more like a creative adventure.
"I remember actually about a year in I told one one of his managers I was like look like if you can't get me more than an hour it's not even really worth me being here at this point um so I kind of I s..."
Capturing Will's Voice
In this segment, Manson explains how he adapted his writing style to match Will Smith's larger-than-life personality. He discusses the collaborative process of drafting the memoir, where he provided the initial draft, and Smith infused his unique voice and flair into the narrative.
"Yeah by Usher comes on he's sort of teaching him he like and then Albert bman starts going QP throw it away ctip throw it away and my sister and I have probably watched that clip 50 times like even no..."
The Reality of Celebrity Writing
Manson contrasts his experience with Will Smith to the common perception of celebrity memoirs, emphasizing Smith's active involvement in the writing process. He shares insights into the extensive revisions Smith made, debunking the myth that celebrity books are often written without their authors' engagement.
"where the truth is um just cuz he gets so excited and he's like oh there's like a thousand people there and it's like well there actually like 80s okay you know um so I I really just went for it in te..."
Overcoming Writer's Block
Mark Manson offers advice on overcoming writer's block, suggesting that high expectations can stifle creativity. He encourages writers to remove self-imposed limitations and write freely, drawing parallels to the concept of 'writing from conversation' to unlock natural ideas and flow.
"nice I want to end with this quote that you have which I think is so good writers block is usually because you're putting way too many expectations on yourself remove the expectations and just start w..."