All Segments
Pay Without Borders with Alex Bouaziz (Deel), Darren Murph (GitLab), and Sondre Rasch (Safetywing)
47 segments available
It’s been a century since the 40-hour work week was adopted, and decades since wifi has appeared on the scene. Despite countless new technologies fundamentally changing how we can work, many work practices have remained the same. COVID sent a shock into that system and many are left debating what the future of work holds. So in this episode, we speak with Alex Bouaziz, Darren Murph, and Sondre Rasch about the many ways companies are now being forced to adapt. Will companies shift toward more asynchronous work? How will a distributed model shift the way we hire? How will companies attract top talent, and is remote the only benefit that matters? What workers and companies will come out on top of this sea change? And of course… is the office dead? We’ll address these questions and more. Topics Covered: 00:00 - History of remote work 3:25 - Is the office dead? 7:30 - Async vs sync 16:30 - Building culture remotely 29:15 - Attracting top talent 31:26 - The evolution of benefits 38:54 - Remote work vs work 42:44 - Location-based pay 49:44 - Open salaries 55:37 - Vetting top talent 59:25 - The need to adapt 1:01:52 - Rewriting the rules 1:07:52 - Infrastructure gaps Resources: * GitLab’s Remote Handbook: https://about.gitlab.com/handbook/ * Deel’s Salary Insights Tool: https://www.deel.com/salary-insights * Deel’s State of Global Hiring report: https://www.deel.com/state-of-global-hiring-2022 Deel: * Deel’s website: https://www.deel.com/ * Deel on Twitter: https://twitter.com/deel * Alex on Twitter: https://twitter.com/Bouazizalex SafetyWing * SafetyWing’s website: https://safetywing.com/ * SafetyWing on Twitter: https://twitter.com/safetywing * Sondre on Twitter: https://twitter.com/SRasch GitLab: * GitLab’s website: https://about.gitlab.com/ * GitLab on Twitter: https://twitter.com/gitlab * Darren on Twitter: https://twitter.com/darrenmurph Stay Updated: * Find us on Twitter: https://twitter.com/a16z * Find us on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/a16z * Subscribe on your favorite podcast app: https://a16z.simplecast.com/ * Follow our host: https://twitter.com/stephsmithio Please note that the content here is for informational purposes only; should NOT be taken as legal, business, tax, or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security; and is not directed at any investors or potential investors in any a16z fund. For more details please see a16z.com/disclosures.
Segments Timeline
The Evolution of Remote Work
In this segment, the speakers discuss the historical context of the office and how remote work has evolved over the centuries. They highlight key milestones, such as the introduction of the 40-hour work week and the impact of technology like the internet and Wi-Fi. The conversation sets the stage for understanding the current landscape of remote work and the shifts brought about by COVID-19.
"so a lot of top talent are entering the remote market and they're specifically looking for organizations that not only offer or allow remote work but Empower people through remote work as in they do r..."
Introducing the Panel
The hosts introduce the panelists: Darren Murph from GitLab, Alex Bouaziz from Deel, and Sondre Rasch from SafetyWing. Each panelist shares their name, company, and location, establishing their credentials and perspectives on the future of work.
"informational purposes only should not be taken as legal business tax or investment advice or be used to evaluate any investment or security and is not directed at any investors or potential investors..."
Is the Office Dead?
The panelists dive into the provocative question of whether the office is dead. They discuss the shift in mentality towards remote work, emphasizing results over physical presence. The conversation explores how distributed work allows companies to attract talent globally and redefines the purpose of physical office spaces.
"having me I'm Alex Boise I'm the CEO and co-founder of deal and I'm calling you from Paris amazing and Sandra let's as they say popcorn to you uh great to be here Steph uh my name is Sandra I'm the co..."
The New Reality of Workspaces
Darren Murph shares insights on how the traditional office environment is changing. He discusses the potential for physical offices to evolve into experiential spaces that foster collaboration without the constraints of a fixed location. The panelists agree that the focus is shifting from where work happens to how it happens.
"companies to focus on results and create atmospheres where people can do their best work from wherever they are and so it leads to to two new realities one is that the actual physical office really ha..."
Economic Factors Shaping Remote Work
Sondre Rasch highlights the economic realities driving the decline of traditional offices. He explains how remote work enables startups to access a global talent pool, allowing them to compete effectively. The discussion emphasizes the advantages of hiring the best talent regardless of geographical limitations.
"touch on this but we're at the the earliest stages of realizing that this is all about how work happens and much less about where people are and that's really I think is what's at the heart of that qu..."
Defining the Office Experience
The panelists reflect on their personal experiences with offices, discussing how definitions of 'office' are evolving. They explore the idea that an office can be a flexible space for collaboration rather than a fixed location, emphasizing the importance of adaptability in modern work environments.
"similarly from the from the employee side you know you could apply to the best companies in the world instead of just the best in your town see I have a very biased opinion I've never never worked in ..."
Asynchronous vs. Synchronous Work
The conversation shifts to the differences between asynchronous and synchronous work. The panelists discuss how remote work allows for more flexible schedules, enabling team members in different time zones to collaborate effectively. They highlight the benefits of asynchronous communication in enhancing productivity.
"really well so the definition of the office is kind of fuzzy for me is it a place that you're sitting from nine to five with an assigned desk that's maybe that in most in in a lot of at least the indu..."
GitLab's Approach to Asynchronous Work
Darren Murph shares GitLab's strategies for implementing asynchronous work. He explains the importance of integrating asynchronous workflows into the company culture and how it respects employees' time. The discussion includes GitLab's meeting policies and the emphasis on documentation.
"example of this that I'm seeing a lot more of is this idea of asynchronous versus synchronous work so when you are in an office you are kind of forced to work quite synchronously right everyone comes ..."
Meeting Policies and Respecting Time
Darren elaborates on GitLab's meeting policies, emphasizing that all meetings are optional and must have an agenda. This approach is designed to respect employees' time and ensure that everyone can contribute, even if they cannot attend the meeting in person.
"synchronous tools sometimes you need the asynchronous tool but we've been very intentional about weaving asynchronous workflows into the culture at get lab and and to create massive Tailwinds around a..."
Building Knowledge Management Systems
The panelists discuss the importance of building knowledge management systems to support asynchronous work. Darren explains how organizations need to prioritize knowledge retrieval over knowledge transfer, enabling employees to access information without needing to be online simultaneously.
"are globally distributed the core reason that I have found is that most management philosophies prioritize the speed of knowledge transfer as in how fast can person a tap person be on the shoulder and..."
Optional Meetings and Documentation
The conversation continues with a focus on how GitLab documents meetings and decisions. The panelists discuss the benefits of having a comprehensive handbook that allows employees to reference past meetings and decisions, ensuring continuity and knowledge sharing across the organization.
"global space you did ask a bit about meetings so at gitlab all meetings are optional and we're very intentional about what a synchronous meeting has to have before it can even be accepted on a calenda..."
Balancing Asynchronous Work
Alex and Sondre share their perspectives on the challenges and benefits of asynchronous work. They discuss the importance of setting realistic expectations for different stages of a company's growth and how certain roles may require more synchronous collaboration than others.
"you know eating its own dog food in the sense that it is focusing on documentation so that anyone no matter where they are at what time even years from now can go back and leverage the information or ..."
Balancing Async and Sync Work
The discussion continues on the balance between asynchronous and synchronous work. The speakers share personal experiences from their companies, noting that while async work can enhance productivity, it can also lead to weaker relationships and slower project progress. They advocate for a hybrid approach that allows for both coordination and focused work time.
"actually on that side normally I'm the only one who's not uh probably thinking these conversations but uh uh yeah I built my previous company uh fully async meaning like zero zero meetings so often wh..."
Building Culture Remotely
This segment addresses the challenges of fostering company culture in a remote work environment. The speakers discuss the importance of clear vision and values, as well as the need for effective written communication. They explore how to create a shared cultural framework that accommodates a diverse, global workforce.
"in the ways that people operate like I can share one example from me is I first worked remotely at a quote-unquote remote first company who had been remote from the ground up and they tended to be mor..."
Implementing Cultural Values
The conversation shifts to practical strategies for implementing cultural values within remote organizations. The speakers emphasize the need for leaders to embody these values and to hire and reward employees based on them. They discuss how visible actions reinforce company culture and create a cohesive work environment.
"well I mean the basics of I think you know a great culture is the same remote which is you know your vision and values you know are they worthwhile and you know are they conducive to Joy and productiv..."
Defining Organizational Culture
In this segment, the speakers highlight the importance of defining what culture means within an organization. They discuss GitLab's approach to documenting values and operating principles, and how these elements shape employee behavior and communication. The conversation underscores the need for intentionality in defining how work gets done.
"unnecessary just to quickly double click on that when you say that you are outlining your culture or being really discreet about it like what does that look like because what I'm imagining is you know..."
Creating Authentic Connections
The speakers share innovative ideas for fostering authentic connections among remote employees. They discuss community impact outings as an alternative to traditional happy hours, emphasizing the importance of meaningful engagement. This segment explores how shared experiences can strengthen team bonds and enhance workplace culture.
"sorry uh but uh you know when people can see that that this is not just you know uh you know a vague aspiration but it's a it's actually a hard constraint it's something that we're willing to take cos..."
Rethinking Team Bonding
This segment focuses on reimagining how teams bond in a remote setting. The speakers suggest alternatives to typical virtual gatherings, such as engaging in fun, interactive activities that promote camaraderie. They emphasize the value of creating memorable experiences that foster genuine relationships among team members.
"I think a lot of companies don't pay enough attention to how work gets done and how communication happens that is critical to culture so being very intentional about that is a massively important Thir..."
Attracting Top Talent in a Remote World
The discussion turns to the competitive landscape of attracting top talent in a remote work environment. The speakers reflect on the shifts in hiring dynamics post-COVID and how companies can leverage their remote-first approach to stand out. They explore the evolving expectations of job seekers and the importance of offering meaningful benefits.
"zoom happy hour so same hour spent much higher impact and this is something that would be very difficult to pull off in a co-located space so for leaders who are becoming remote or they've been Force ..."
Attracting Top Talent in a Remote World
Darren Murph shares insights on how the shift to remote work during COVID-19 has changed the landscape for attracting top talent. He explains that while competition has increased due to more remote job options, many professionals who previously resisted remote work are now seeking it, raising the bar for companies to provide a compelling remote work experience.
"for a period of time several years before covid those companies actually could attract top talent quite easily because they had this one benefit you know I've heard some people say the one benefit tha..."
Evolving Employee Benefits
Sondre Rasch discusses the changing landscape of employee benefits in the remote work era. He notes that while companies like SafetyWing offer modern benefits, many workers still lack basic health insurance and retirement options. The segment explores how companies are adapting their benefits to meet the needs of a diverse, global workforce.
"experience I mean Sandra mentioned this even though there's certain elements of the company that they love having synchronous moments the backbone of that is a rigor around documentation the backbone ..."
Navigating Compliance and Hiring Models
In this segment, Sondre Rasch explains how companies are navigating the complexities of hiring globally, including compliance issues and the shift towards offering both contractor and full-time employment models. He emphasizes the importance of providing equitable benefits across different employment types.
"like health insurance and retirement is still not really available uh it's very difficult so you have of course options you know you can use services like uh deal that does make it much easier to buy ..."
The Future of Work: Beyond Remote
The discussion shifts to the broader implications of remote work as a concept. Sondre Rasch and Darren Murph argue that remote work should simply be considered 'work' as technology evolves. They explore how this shift is changing perceptions and practices in the workplace, emphasizing the need for organizations to adapt to a more flexible work environment.
"context um I do we help companies hire around the world we basically build the whole infrastructure for them to be able to do so without having any so as you said they can hire people as independent c..."
Location-Based Pay: A New Standard?
Alex Bouaziz addresses the debate around location-based pay in the context of remote work. He discusses how companies are adjusting their pay structures based on employee location and the implications of this trend for attracting talent. The segment highlights the importance of data-driven insights in determining fair compensation in a global job market.
"key thing that we're seeing and these people are starting to because they're starting to look out right from their 30 miles ranges right they're starting to hire globally and hiring globally right mea..."
Flat Salary Structures in Remote Work
Sondre Rasch shares insights on how his company, SafetyWing, has adopted a flat salary structure to address the global labor market's dynamics. He argues that remote work has created a global talent pool, and companies should not subsidize high living costs in expensive cities. Rasch emphasizes the importance of fairness and contribution value in determining salaries, suggesting that a flat approach can help maintain equity among employees.
"um so you know going global is just redistributing wealth and redistributing opportunities has definitely balanced out this a little bit where very skilled people get tend to get paid higher but at th..."
Hiring Challenges in Competitive Markets
Sondre Rasch discusses the challenges of hiring top talent in competitive markets, particularly in relation to salary expectations. He notes that while his company is based in the San Francisco area, they do not compete directly with the highest-paying companies. Rasch highlights the importance of understanding local market conditions and the potential for salary convergence across different regions as companies seek to attract skilled workers.
"flat salary and there's also some fairness and I can understand you know there is pros and cons like the fairness argument favor of local pays living conditions but you know with the people who work i..."
The Complexity of Salary Transparency
The conversation shifts to the complexities of salary transparency in remote work environments. The panel discusses the challenges of sharing salary information and how companies navigate the balance between transparency and competitiveness. Darren Murph shares GitLab's approach to salary calculators and the importance of aligning expectations with reality to avoid employee dissatisfaction.
"baffled by that I saw the some data from car to last month which saw that U.S jurisdictions were actually converging on San Francisco salaries uh in their data set which is of course just a national l..."
The Role of Documentation in Hiring
Darren Murph emphasizes the significance of documentation in the hiring process at GitLab. He explains how clear communication of company values and expectations can help attract the right talent. Murph suggests that candidates should be encouraged to self-select into the company culture, ensuring alignment between employee expectations and the company's operational principles.
"people are paid or should we you know tuck that behind the belt should I tell my employer that I'm living actually in an outskirt of SF so it's not as expensive or should I tell them I'm living in an ..."
Navigating Cultural Shifts in Hiring
The discussion continues with strategies for navigating cultural shifts in hiring as companies transition to remote work. Murph advises organizations to clearly state their expectations in job descriptions to attract candidates who are excited about building a new culture. He highlights the importance of finding individuals who will contribute positively to the company's evolution.
"candidate you'll have access to it as well in becoming a public company there were certain things that were connected to that that just made more sense to to have it there but we still believe in the ..."
Globalization and Talent Acquisition
Alex Bouaziz discusses the impact of globalization on talent acquisition, noting the rise of engineering talent in countries like Brazil and India. He highlights how successful tech companies are creating hubs that attract skilled workers, allowing them to compete on a global scale. Bouaziz emphasizes the importance of cultural alignment and the evolving landscape of remote work.
"Sandra about what you're seeing about things actually moving to that upper echelon because I think many people would expect the opposite to happen because as you make everything distributed you do get..."
Vetting Top Talent: The New Approach
In this segment, the speakers discuss the evolving methods of vetting top talent in the remote work landscape. They highlight the trend of using assessments and trial contracts as a way to ensure alignment between candidates and company culture. The importance of clear communication of company values and expectations during the hiring process is emphasized to avoid misalignment and dissatisfaction.
"something that I've noticed in the industry is a move from not necessarily getting rid of interviews but also inserting a lot more assessment in the process of vetting top talent and in addition to th..."
Building a Culture of Change
The conversation shifts to the necessity of fostering a culture of innovation within organizations, especially those transitioning to remote work. The speakers suggest including enthusiasm for cultural development in job descriptions to attract candidates who are eager to contribute to change. This proactive approach is crucial for companies undergoing significant transformations.
"values and operating principles page at some point during the interview and ask people what resonates what do you love about this what don't you love about this and you want to get clear early on if i..."
Navigating the Future of Work
As companies grow, understanding the future of work becomes essential. The speakers discuss the generational differences in work expectations and the need for organizations to adapt their compliance and operational structures to attract top talent. They emphasize the importance of flexibility and the evolving nature of work arrangements in the modern workforce.
"part of that change to Darren's points you know the way one other thing that's been really fun I do is now that we're starting to get quite quite larger you know we've been working with Fortune 500s i..."
Identifying Gaps in Corporate Infrastructure
This segment focuses on the gaps in understanding and infrastructure that many Fortune 500 companies face regarding remote work. The speakers highlight the complexities of employee mobility across borders and the outdated policies that hinder flexibility. They stress the need for organizations to adapt to the new realities of work and the importance of having the right tools and systems in place.
"about yeah I mean there's there's tons right like a very basic example is my employee wants to live in five different countries over the next year right uh that's like there's much more complex cases ..."
The Challenge of Outdated Regulations
The discussion continues with a focus on the outdated regulations that complicate remote work arrangements. The speakers share personal experiences with restrictive policies that do not accommodate modern work practices. They highlight the need for companies to navigate these challenges and adapt to the evolving landscape of remote work.
"necessary right because of the workforce of tomorrow um but it's also even a tool shift right and this is why you've got companies like ours right or Sunrise Company no I I can definitely confirm that..."
Finding Solutions in a Complex Landscape
In this segment, the speakers explore how leaders can find solutions to the challenges posed by remote work regulations. They discuss the importance of networking and sharing best practices among companies to navigate international laws. The conversation emphasizes the need for a collaborative approach to establish effective policies and infrastructure.
"I worked for a large Enterprise company prior to this and they were figuring that out and they had a policy where you could I think spend 90 days outside of your country or your your base that you're ..."
Government Collaboration for Remote Work
The speakers discuss the increasing collaboration between companies and governments to address the challenges of remote work. They highlight the importance of creating supportive environments for remote workers and the role of governments in facilitating this transition. The conversation underscores the potential for new policies and frameworks to emerge as the demand for remote work grows.
"position yeah I mean there's a couple things um most sea levels are heads up at companies um usually have their own networks of people that they usually ask to right between sharing policies or you kn..."
Emerging Infrastructure Needs
This segment focuses on the emerging infrastructure needs in the context of remote work. The speakers discuss the shift from traditional office spaces to residential and co-living arrangements. They highlight the opportunities for innovation in city planning and the legal frameworks necessary to support a distributed workforce.
"there's an opportunity right there's a ton of governments that are being super helpful so that more people see them as in attractive countries right and there's a couple of things playing uh in their ..."
Legal and Financial Infrastructure for Nomads
The conversation shifts to the legal and financial infrastructure required to support digital nomads. The speakers discuss the need for new systems to facilitate contracts, credit scores, and other essential services for remote workers. They emphasize the importance of building trust and creating a supportive ecosystem for the growing remote workforce.
"Insurance health insurance there and uh across the whole stack there's so many amazing companies to be built you know also being on that same Frontier that Alex is it's how fluid and willing the count..."
The Future of City Building
In this segment, the speakers explore the concept of city building in response to the rise of remote work. They discuss innovative projects transforming hotels and resorts into remote workspaces and the potential for new cities to emerge. The conversation highlights the historical significance of this shift and the opportunities it presents for urban development.
"going to go to the next state and work with them right and again that's both on the individual level of moving to those places but also the company level like can we hire in in your jurisdiction can o..."
Creating a New Legal Framework
The speakers conclude by discussing the need for a new legal framework to support the evolving nature of work. They emphasize the importance of addressing outdated regulations and creating systems that accommodate the realities of remote work. The conversation highlights the potential for innovation in legal practices to support the future workforce.
"I'll open it up to the group to see if anyone wants to to start but yeah I guess to reiterate the question what infrastructure is missing I'm a bit Wildlife on these topics but uh so you know city bui..."
Legal Infrastructure for Remote Work
The conversation shifts to the legal challenges posed by a global workforce. The need for legal arbitration and credit scoring systems tailored for remote workers is emphasized. This segment discusses how existing legal frameworks are inadequate for the complexities of international contracts and the necessity for new solutions to facilitate remote work arrangements.
"um you know credit scores it's like really basics of being able to enter into contracts you know imagine you know let's say you sign a contractor agreement with some today and you don't use a new or s..."
Building Trust in the Internet Economy
This segment delves into the importance of trust in the internet economy, particularly for remote workers. The discussion highlights the challenges faced by non-traditional workers in securing loans and mortgages due to outdated banking practices. It emphasizes the need for innovative solutions that can unlock new economic opportunities for digital nomads.
"so that's my uh my third request please build that's my new pet project if you wanna if you want to work on it that's the one thing I've actually been working on exactly for a couple of months now so ..."
Entrepreneurial Opportunities in Remote Work
The speakers discuss the entrepreneurial landscape emerging from the shift to remote work. They highlight the potential for new companies that cater to the needs of remote workers, such as life design services and specialized teams for knowledge workers. This segment captures the excitement around building solutions that address the unique challenges of a distributed workforce.
"the U.S but it's like the the rush to gold right or something that like I don't remember the actual Rush Oh like um build troubles exactly right so like there's so many things that can be built in thi..."
Leveraging Remote Work for Social Impact
This segment explores how the flexibility of remote work can enable individuals to engage in social causes, such as addressing the orphan crisis. The discussion emphasizes the potential for remote workers to utilize their time and skills to make a positive impact in their communities, highlighting the intersection of work and social responsibility.
"space that solve one problem in really well and there's so many of those that yeah it's very exciting all right I'll give you two companies and a product so the first is a company that employs life de..."
Decision-Making in a Distributed Workforce
The conversation shifts to the challenges of decision-making in a remote work environment. The speakers discuss the importance of clear decision-makers and the need for effective frameworks to facilitate faster, informed decisions. This segment emphasizes how a distributed workforce can thrive with the right management philosophy and decision-making processes.
"more decoupled so that's one the second one is a riff on something I heard on my first million which is Oceans 11 teamwork but for knowledge workers so in Oceans 11 there's a heist that needs to happe..."
The Future of Work: Embracing Change
In this closing segment, the speakers reflect on the evolving nature of work and the importance of adapting to new realities. They encourage leaders to view the changes in the workforce as opportunities rather than challenges. This segment encapsulates the optimism surrounding the future of work and the need for organizations to remain flexible and innovative.
"there's some interesting Arbitrage that could happen there all right so that's two companies the product decision making I'm of the belief that we have some massive challenges ahead of us as a society..."