"I'm super excited to host Casey again thanks for coming down from the city to do this um he's a teacher reforge he's a growth expert and adviser I'm sure you've read his he's got you know great posts ..."

"you hey everybody how's it going I don't have a book to sell you today uh I just have a bunch of random thoughts uh from a lot of pain uh trying to te startups growing for the long term which a lot of..."

"a team to work the second product how do you figure out the process and what are kind of some failure modes you might want to be paying attention to so uh that's that's what we're going to talk about ..."

"and I'm sure you've all have used products that have had that so when you found product Market fit most of the time you've done this as a Founder like you're working on you just by iterating a lot you..."

"because there's so much room for the product you found product Market fit in to find the audience it should theoretically work for uh but of course you know that will end over time okay um one of the ..."

"just just five in YC right now it's crazy um the also the incumbents you're dealing with the ones that are not in YC and the medallas of the world the product board whatever uh they're not asleep at t..."

"of the product as possible process right so what you see here are the attributes of these different types of expansions is is my product changing is the market uh I'm targeting changing and are the co..."

"your Market sorts of shift of well I'm still selling to my existing Market but I'm also kind of selling to developers and that's kind of the new market which is why that's mixed and you're ask to buil..."

"complicated model uh but it's still really optimized about how do we get more creators how do we posting more events and then when they post an event how do we make sure they sell as many tickets as p..."

"been Del you know I'm dedicating a lot more time my road map to this second product a lot earlier then what are the things you can look for to try to figure that out so if you talk to people historica..."

"other things that matter in terms of when you need to build a second product is what's the size of the First Market you're you're targeting and what's the growth rate up right so uh we're going to tal..."

"example uh in the consumer space so um I joined cist at the end of 2013 and um we had launched around the same time a Snapchat so these were two companies that were compared pretty closely because the..."

"growing via verality uh right you would think verality would have higher acquisition potential it usually grow a bit faster you know on brity versus versus SEO um so that's why I have that Medium vers..."

"stream as as based businesses so mod look like a challenge for step um both are in extremely large markets extremely growing markets um and they uh while Pinterest had expansion opportunities around o..."

"want to necessarily see you know all the stuff that she's saving you have very different interest so we moved away from a friend graph to a topic graph or an interest graph and we asked you what conte..."

"valued at about the same certainly seemed like Snapchat had a much harder Road um so you can see just because you're a consumer product doesn't mean you don't necessarily need a second product to scal..."

"business teachers individuals so that ability to share content than they get other people to pay because they're also going to create content was lower um which meant the monetization potential uh was..."

"entire company uh C was trying to make that work but I wouldn't say that's really been a driver of its growth so far but Camp was able to leverage some more consumer techniques to grow SEO is the one ..."

"to see that you know thingo tried to get acquired for 20 billion you know federal government had some things to say about that so I put in their last you know uh MEC valuation which was 10 but both th..."

"what this means is when you're looking at these attributes right of competition how well you're able to acquire retain monetize growth in the markets adjacencies you have to be looking at these variab..."

"very well because while grub maybe some consider a little bit of an old school Marketplace at this point basically all it's doing is connecting buyers and sellers and facilitating payments the restaur..."

"subscription has always been really difficult to retain customers um consumers are irrational they don't have as much money as businesses um so you don't have net dollar retention so the people that s..."

"growth and they started trying to create these hacks for daily engagement like the daily column and push notifications okay so they also tried to launch their second products around the same time uh d..."

"these markets that are you know sizable but not infinite we're going to need new products to work um I think what you also see in all of these examples is that new products are less likely to work whe..."

"going to bet big on some new thing uh that probably attacks the biggest weakness in their grow with MAA whether it's the retention side or the acquisition side or the ability to monetize um and you're..."

"arrow okay so uh Switching gears if you're working on a new product uh how do you know if it's actually successful inside a company and you know as D mentioned earlier we have pretty great Frameworks ..."

"launch a second product than a first product right it's just like yes and no because while you really only need one of these three to work when it works it has to work big enough so that eventually it..."

"know that were there once the company was already 100 people and you know had thousands of customers um they're generally not going to be good at navigating the second product problem so I recommend F..."

"before we're winning if we even get there it's going to be are we learning something that gets C closer to the pot of gold and we have a better understanding of what the shape and size of that pot of ..."

"they're like the only thing they're coming back to you as as a leader or a Founder is saying like well this didn't work this didn't work but they're not like because this didn't work I learned x and x..."

"any take questions awesome thanks a lot ccie yeah great talk I have a question real quick so you have I love S curves and you were saying hey well when the team projects that their current scurve is g..."

"right so um we kind of build an understanding of how our cross Network effect is working and then I start to basically turn what I showed today as a qualitative model which is like you map on a whiteb..."

"of the year and we're 99.3% to goal because in reality it's just like a super trackable business uh you know a geographic Marketplace um so once you have the back data you can you know reasonably fore..."

"times hi uh thanks for the talk uh I just have a question it seems like a lot of product strategy is um identifying what the product work you need to do depending on the like competitive landscape and..."

"building cross-side Network effects and then then Data Network effects I think what I've seen with other consumer companies uh that I've worked with or that I've been employed by is even if they're a ..."

"so I can kind of say like oh I recognize that's like a good brand but I'm not gonna be the one that builds that for you um so that's just I'm like honed in on that one but it's definitely not the the ..."

"measurement of so you have to go find a way to invent measurement of it right which is so uh like survey based right so at apartment.com um we charged on subscription um because we couldn't really tel..."

"a lot of times I'm working with like we don't actually have the data if we did our job how do we go get the data do we Institute a survey do we Institute a right in the case of GrubHub do we actually ..."

"Eventbrite was launching a platform strategy when I joined I said we can't even service our internal developers well what's the chances of us serving our external developers well shut it down and so w..."

"about double the time of B2B SAS um so out of the clients I've worked with uh Thumbtack I think took the longest it took four years to get the product Market fit uh fair I think was the fastest around..."

"restaurant can get an extra catering order or delivery order they just take it kind of no matter what they might complain about the fees but like they think of it it's extremely profitable to get thos..."

"in food delivery so grup was like 12 or 30 years back um is SEO as a acquisition channel is it still relevant is still as important as it was before uh okay so it's it's ebed and flowed right so um so..."

"we're convert it and they're they're growing incredibly fast but they're not doing only pickle ball they do other stuff golf tennis whatever right so uh sometimes you see that with new technologies ri..."

"of times I'm cautioning it for it being the thing that the only strategy you've got so y door door there by saying it's not your favorite what are some of the other channels that you are finding peopl..."

"nent as like a growth Loop um so that's probably where I'm most excited um I I'll give you a couple names off stream I don't want to I don't want to blow their spot thanks Casey it's very thought-prov..."

"match group has a ton of mostly mature dating apps and Tinder was the the fast growing one now um uh the founders founders of Tinder and a lot of early employees actually sued match group over this se..."