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Hiring Engineers with Ammon Bartram
28 segments available
Ammon Bartram is the cofounder of Triplebyte (YC S15) and Socialcam (YC W12) - https://twitter.com/ammonbartram Triplebyte connects software engineers with companies that are hiring: https://triplebyte.com/ Read the transcript here: http://blog.ycombinator.com/hiring-engineers-with-ammon-bartram YC's podcast is hosted by Craig Cannon - http://twitter.com/craigcannon
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Meet Ammon Bartram
Ammon Bartram introduces himself as the co-founder of Socialcam and Triplebyte, sharing his journey from joining Justin TV to launching his own recruiting startup. He highlights his early experiences in hiring and the challenges faced in the tech industry.
"hey guys uh today we have almond Bartram a co-founder of social cam triple bite and he is here to talk to us about hiring so um could you just give us a quick intro about what you've worked on"
The Birth of Triplebyte
Ammon explains the concept behind Triplebyte, a recruiting startup designed to connect engineers with companies. He discusses the interview process for engineers and how they match candidates with companies based on their skills and potential.
"quick intro about what you've worked on cool uh so I joined uh Justin TV uh fresh out of school in uh 2009 when it was uh just 25 folks and kind of went through the the the roller coaster of the early..."
Defining a Good Engineer
Ammon discusses the subjective nature of what makes a good engineer, emphasizing that different companies have varying definitions. He highlights the importance of understanding these differences to avoid hiring mismatches and noise in the recruitment process.
"triple bite just for context for people can you explain sure so yeah so we're a recruiting startup uh so we help startups uh hire Engineers okay and so Engineers apply to us and then we do sort of a f..."
Hiring for Different Needs
Ammon elaborates on how early-stage startups should identify their specific needs when hiring engineers. He contrasts the requirements for productivity versus deep technical knowledge, stressing the importance of aligning hiring strategies with company goals.
"example if one you know company um thinks that Engineers need to be you know very fast and productive and be able to show that in an interview um and a different company thinks that Engineers need to ..."
Common Interviewing Pitfalls
Ammon warns against common pitfalls in the interviewing process, such as bias towards familiar skills. He explains how this can lead to a homogenous team and the importance of broadening the criteria for evaluating engineering talent.
"more in in that direction and so do you have general advice for people that come to you guys at triple bite or just you as a friend adviser um for diagnosing like what kind of engineer is a good engin..."
Evaluating Credentials: Boot Camps vs. Degrees
Ammon shares his perspective on the value of experience over formal education, arguing that real-world experience is more critical than whether a candidate comes from a boot camp or a prestigious university. He discusses how to assess candidates effectively.
"direction that might not make sense M okay um you know it's very complicated because there are plenty of examples of companies with you know with defined engineering cultures that have worked out very..."
The Interview Process at Triplebyte
Ammon outlines the interview process at Triplebyte, detailing how they evaluate candidates through programming tasks, debugging exercises, and system design challenges. He emphasizes the importance of assessing practical skills in real-world scenarios.
"perhaps they they may have a more academic slant to what they've studied than someone out of a boot camp but both those people lack Real World Experience M um I think catering that differently than so..."
Data-Driven Hiring Insights
Ammon discusses the data-driven approach Triplebyte takes in their hiring process, sharing insights from over 2,000 interviews conducted. He highlights how this data helps refine their evaluation methods and improve hiring outcomes.
"and this is this is not this you know it's not irrational on the part of the companies um it's just the reality sure okay and so then when you guys are like pre-screening these people for triple bite ..."
The Noise of Traditional Interviews
In this segment, Bartram critiques the traditional interview format used by many tech companies, pointing out the excessive reliance on single questions that often lead to misleading assessments of candidates. He shares his findings on the variability in interviewer opinions and how this can obscure the true abilities of candidates.
"shorten it I think if you starting from scratch you would probably need about about twice the amount of time to get through all that stuff okay and so what like so having gone through all these interv..."
The Impact of Company Size on Interviews
Bartram explains how larger companies tend to focus more on innate intelligence and problem-solving abilities during interviews, often using brain teasers. He contrasts this with smaller companies that prioritize immediate productivity and specific technical skills, highlighting the implications for candidates based on the size of the company they are interviewing with.
"this huge amount of noise and like we have this pretty incredible lens on this this because we evaluate Engineers pretty rigorously and then send them out to multiple companies and see what happens ge..."
Predictive Value of Easy Questions
Bartram reveals that simpler interview questions can be more predictive of a candidate's engineering skills than complex ones. He discusses the balance between getting the right answer and the ease of answering, emphasizing that many candidates who struggle with difficult questions may still be excellent engineers.
"to say we're using you know Ruby on Rails we need a very productive rails developer um you know come take this interview you know and and and and we're going to meure how well you can maybe how well y..."
Preparing for Technical Interviews
In this segment, Bartram provides advice for candidates preparing for technical interviews, particularly new graduates. He stresses the importance of mastering fundamental computer science concepts and practicing coding under pressure to improve performance during interviews, offering practical tips for effective preparation.
"yeah can you give you like a couple examples of what those easyer questions might be yeah sure just Des like like saying like you know we want you to create a checkers game absolutely no you know no l..."
Trends in Interview Preparation
Bartram discusses a trend where companies like Facebook offer interview prep classes to applicants. He reflects on the implications of this trend, expressing both optimism for increased transparency and concern about the pressure it places on candidates to prepare extensively.
"seen that I think is high quality an interesting aside to this though is that most companies actually want you to do these things right it's not companies would prefer that all their candidates we pre..."
Navigating Brain Teasers in Interviews
Ammon Bartram addresses the role of brain teaser questions in interviews, noting that while they are rare, practical applications of computer science concepts are more common. He shares his personal experience with challenging interview questions and reassures candidates that not passing every interview is normal.
"it right I just wonder if it like if it's filtering for those types of people right who are just like looking for like I don't know what to do I don't know what to do it's like well if you apply here ..."
The Role of Side Projects
In this segment, Bartram discusses the significance of side projects in the hiring process. He explains that while they can help candidates stand out during resume screenings, they are often not heavily considered during interviews, as most engineers lack substantial side projects due to proprietary work.
"majority of of of of questions at big companies and so uh so when I was in college I interviewed at one of those like big management consulting firms and uh they did have all those questions um and we..."
Screening Out Candidates
Bartram elaborates on the challenges candidates face when being screened out of the hiring process. He emphasizes the need for companies to develop better methods for assessing skills directly, rather than relying on traditional filters like educational background or previous employment.
"gone in that direction um so what about the role of like you know projects someone's portfolio of like side projects are there certain types of side projects um that across the board are attractive to..."
Location and Job Applications
Ammon Bartram provides insights on how location affects job applications, particularly for smaller companies. He explains that while larger companies are indifferent to a candidate's location, smaller firms may prefer local candidates, giving them a slight advantage in the hiring process.
"consistent so if you make it consistent then you can optimize it um and having this sort of other process where you look at at projects um introduces noise and it's also just really hard to do so you ..."
Interview Methods Overview
In this concluding segment, Bartram reviews various interview methods used by companies, discussing the tension between measuring quick problem-solving skills and the ability to manage larger projects. He emphasizes the need for a balanced approach to effectively evaluate engineering candidates.
"so what other things should I think about if I am being screened out like say like you know I'm I'm getting a call back from like one out of 10 yep what should I do PL a TR bite that's the short answe..."
The Flaws of Traditional Interviews
Bartram critiques the traditional interview process, likening it to democracy as the worst form of evaluation except for all others. He emphasizes the need for consistency in questioning and evaluation to reduce noise in hiring decisions, highlighting the challenges faced by companies in accurately assessing engineering talent.
"first you know the first approach you can take to interviewing is just say okay we're going to we're going to not do it we're going to do like trial employment something like that um and that totally ..."
Identifying Company-Specific Needs
Bartram discusses the importance of companies understanding their specific hiring needs and the biases that can arise in the interview process. He explains how different companies may prioritize various skills and how this can lead to inconsistent hiring practices, stressing the need for introspection in hiring decisions.
"except for like all the other options um and so we're so like you have to do it it's it's fundamentally inaccurate but you still have to do it and the goal is to make it as accurate as possible um you..."
The Impact of Interview Techniques on Candidate Evaluation
This segment focuses on how different interview techniques, such as whiteboard coding, can skew evaluations towards academic skills rather than practical programming abilities. Bartram advocates for assessing candidates in environments that reflect their actual work conditions to better gauge their capabilities.
"think that's that's more important than what you're actually asking right so like the first step is be consistent second step is tweak that over time based on on the results you see okay um you know o..."
Crafting the Perfect Interview at Triplebyte
Bartram reveals the interview process at Triplebyte, emphasizing the importance of a standardized approach to candidate evaluation. He discusses the skills prioritized in their hiring process, including data analysis and general programming knowledge, and how they tailor assessments based on specific roles.
"you want to hire Cowboys um you know those those those are all those are you know logical decisions okay um but but but very often companies are making similar kinds of decisions almost by accident an..."
Staying Relevant in a Changing Tech Landscape
In this segment, Bartram advises engineers on the importance of keeping up with industry trends and technologies. He warns against becoming outdated and emphasizes the need for continuous learning, especially for those aspiring to start their own ventures in the tech field.
"mean I imagine you made it right yep okay well so first of all everyone goes through all our candidates go through a regular process okay so we we hire there people out of our our regular stream MH an..."
Qualities for Long-Term Employee Retention
Bartram discusses the qualities that correlate with longer employee retention in engineering roles. He highlights the significance of candidates being genuinely excited about the company's mission, suggesting that passion for the work often leads to greater job satisfaction and longevity.
"going to going to pay a price yeah I mean especially if you're actually interested in starting your own thing at some point like being on the edge really really matters um okay I uh I mean maybe uh th..."
The Flaws in Traditional Interviewing
Bartram critiques conventional engineering interview practices, arguing that many popular beliefs about interviewing do not hold up. He shares findings from Triplebyte's research, revealing that past project discussions are often less predictive of job performance than practical programming assignments. This challenges the status quo of how candidates are evaluated.
"can get a lot out of I have not actually found any books that I think are very useful I think this is going to sound arrogant maybe but I think engineering interviewing is this field where it's so eas..."
Avoiding Hazing in Interviews
Ammon Bartram warns against the culture of hazing in engineering interviews, where candidates face unnecessary stress and pressure. He stresses the importance of maintaining a supportive environment and suggests shifting from evaluation to teaching mode when candidates struggle. This approach fosters a more positive interview experience and helps candidates perform better.
"well yeah yeah I mean standardize right so well you be really careful about helping people interestingly so certain certain candidates are a lot better at listening help without necessarily realizing ..."
Optimizing Interview Dynamics
In this segment, Bartram discusses the dynamics of interview panels, recommending a maximum of two interviewers to reduce stress on candidates. He emphasizes the need for consistent training among interviewers to ensure fair evaluations. This insight is valuable for organizations aiming to improve their hiring processes.
"away from like the so does that just mean like uh crazy brain teasers does that mean like uh cutting them off in conversation what does that mean yeah mean it well it means all those things right so i..."
Connecting with Ammon Bartram
Bartram shares his contact information for those interested in following up with him after the discussion. This segment provides a direct way for listeners to engage with him, fostering connections within the engineering community.
"it really helps cool um so if people want to follow up with you and ask you questions how can they reach out to you sure uh my email is uh amen drill.com that's am m o n cool thanks man thank you Crai..."