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Learn Copywriting in 76 Minutes – Harry Dry
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Harry is a master copywriter — and that’s not hyperbole. With Marketing Examples, he’s taught over 100,000 people how to write copy that rips. And guess what? You’re next. Copywriting is the wrapper of success for every company. It’s the difference between Snickers, the bestselling chocolate bar in the world (“You’re not you when you’re hungry”) and a chocolate bar that looked and tasted just like Snickers, but went out of business in 2006. (Ever had a Fuse bar? Yeah, neither have we.) Good copywriting burns into your brain, seeps into your guts. And in this episode, you’re going to learn how to write it. Harry and David get down-and-dirty with the most important principles of copywriting. You’ll learn “The Three Rules” of good copy. You’ll compare ads that worked with ads that didn’t. You’ll get an inside look into how Harry writes his copy, down to his favorite software and tea of choice. If you want to grow your marketing skills, this is your Harry-sent solution. Come learn the art of masterful copywriting. SPEAKER LINKS: Website: https://marketingexamples.com/ Newsletter: https://marketingexamples.com/newsletter Twitter: https://twitter.com/harrydry Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/marketing_examples/ LinkedIn: https://uk.linkedin.com/in/harrydry WRITING EXAMPLES: Sign up and learn from the best writing of all time: https://www.writingexamples.com WRITE OF PASSAGE: Want to learn more about the next class for Write of Passage? https://writeofpassage.com/ 00:00:00 Introduction 00:01:57 Harry’s Three Rules 00:03:20 Can I visualize it? 00:06:15 Can I falsify it? 00:08:46 “Imagine you can’t talk you can only point” 00:09:55 Can nobody else say it? 00:10:40 Why learn copywriting? 00:13:55 Fire round! 00:14:15 “They don’t write songs about Volvos” 00:15:15 Athletic Greens is clean 00:16:50 Apple's “1000 songs in your pocket” 00:18:35 We love Volvo’s ads 00:19:40 That legendary Economist ad! 00:20:48 The line that created desire for diamonds 00:21:46 You sit down. You write copy. What’s the process?! 00:22:34 Piece 1 — “Who you’re talking to” 00:24:40 Don’t write it on a Google Doc 00:25:46 Piece 2 — “Having something to say” 00:27:35 Piece 3 — “Saying it well” 00:29:45 Harry writes an ad (with screen sharing) 00:41:50 www.WriteOfPassage.com 00:42:25 Harry explains another ad he wrote! 00:44:10 Tesla’s Copywriting is Good 00:45:38 “First line. Second line.” 00:46:30 Facts. Facts. Facts! 00:50:50 Harry’s Newsletter 00:51:40 How’d you write a newsletter 00:53:20 Every example has conflict 00:53:52 Loom’s Positioning 00:54:47 Every paragraph is two lines 00:55:42 “Walk me thought this intro” 00:57:20 How Harry writes simply 00:57:58 Kaplan’s Law of Words 00:58:26 The strength of an idea is inversely proportional to it’s scope 00:59:25 A good paragraph is like a burrito 01:01:15 Structure is wildly underrated 01:04:00 Your standards are your work 01:05:12 How do you create conflict in copy 01:06:25 Why AI can’t write copy 01:10:20 “Silence and action” 01:12:05 Writing example (John Steinbeck) PODCAST LINKS: Website: https://writeofpassage.com/how-i-write Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/how-i-write/id1700171470 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2DjMSboniFAeGA8v9NpoPv ABOUT THE HOST: I’m David Perell and I’m a writer, teacher, and podcaster. I believe writing online is one of the biggest opportunities in the world today. For the first time in human history, everybody can freely share their ideas with a global audience. I seek to help as many people publish their writing online as possible. How I Write is a podcast by Write of Passage // Production by Adam Soccolich
Segments Timeline
The Game of Memory
Harry Dry introduces a memory game to illustrate the importance of visualization in copywriting. He emphasizes three critical questions to ask when writing: Can I visualize it? Can I falsify it? Can nobody else say it? These rules help ensure that the copy resonates and stands out.
"Let's start with a game. Six words. I'm going to ask you which one do you remember? Okay. Seamless transition. Charging pitbull. Musly Irishman better way. Leg of lamb. Which ones you got? Irishman, p..."
Harry’s Three Rules of Copywriting
Harry outlines his three essential rules for effective copywriting: visualization, falsifiability, and uniqueness. He explains how these principles help writers create compelling and memorable copy that cannot be easily replicated.
"Dry. I know that you have these three rules that you apply to every sentence. I do. What are they? Can I visualize it? Can I falsify it? Can nobody else say this? So, you get free nos, you've probably..."
Visualizing Ideas
Harry discusses the significance of visualization in copywriting. He shares a game to demonstrate how concrete imagery helps people remember concepts better than abstract ideas. This segment emphasizes the need for clarity and vividness in writing.
"I visualize it? So let's start with a game. Why does this matter? If if you can't if you can't visualize it, you won't remember it. Lisa Cron says, um "If I can't see it, it's not there yet." So, I'm ..."
Falsifiability in Copy
In this segment, Harry explains the importance of writing falsifiable statements in copy. He illustrates this with examples, showing how concrete claims engage readers and make the writing more impactful. The focus is on creating statements that can be proven true or false.
"All right. Why does it why does this work? Like, why does why do we like stuff which is falsifiable? I I came up with this tip and I thought about it myself and what I what I concluded was um when you..."
The Power of Pointing
Harry introduces the concept of 'pointing' in copywriting, where writers should focus on concrete evidence rather than vague adjectives. He provides practical examples of how to effectively communicate ideas through visual and factual references.
"the lesson with the pointing? This is what I still don't understand. When I say when I say don't talk, only point. Let's say I'm trying to sell you gold. All right. I might say gold, you know it's a g..."
Why Learn Copywriting?
Harry makes a compelling case for why everyone should learn copywriting. He compares successful brands like Snickers to failed ones like Fuse, highlighting how effective copy can make a significant difference in a product's success.
"chumps. I'm not going to learn that. It's not really important." But you are the first person I met who changed my mind on that. Why should people learn copyrightiting? Why should people learn copyrig..."
The Secret Footballer
Harry shares an anecdote about footballer Dave Kitson, who outsold famous players by leveraging unique storytelling in his book. This example illustrates the power of positioning and narrative in copywriting, emphasizing that compelling stories can elevate ordinary products.
"Uh, and we saw Kitson run around Freton Park, ginger hair again, not scoring very many goals, but you know, he he put in a shift. Kitson ended up with one England cap, so he played for England good pl..."
Instant Recognition in Copywriting
Harry introduces the 'one Mississippi, two Mississippi' test to evaluate the effectiveness of copy. He discusses how good copy should convey its message instantly, emphasizing that if it takes longer than two seconds to understand, it may not be effective. This segment underscores the importance of clarity and immediacy in copywriting.
"we'll talk about them. Okay, tell me about this. They don't write songs about Volvos. What's going on here? Why do you like this one? It's an ad by Corvette, I think. Um why I like that? Six words. Um..."
Athletic Greens: Positioning 101
In this segment, Harry examines an ad for Athletic Greens, discussing its positioning as an all-in-one solution for vitamins. He highlights the importance of addressing consumer pain points and how effective copy can simplify complex ideas into relatable messages. This illustrates a key principle of copywriting: understanding and addressing the audience's needs.
"hours. Let me give you this test. I can't remember who who came up with it but it's called one Mississippi, two Mississippi. So, I got this ad. I show it to you. One Mississippi, two Mississippi. You ..."
Understanding Your Audience
Harry discusses the significance of knowing your audience when crafting copy. He shares insights on how ads should resonate with the target demographic, using examples from his experiences. This segment emphasizes the necessity of audience awareness in creating effective marketing messages.
"pain point? The pain point is morning routine. I want vitamin A, vitamin D vitamin C. I want some zinc. I want some whatever you're going to need. You don't need a cabinet. You use all in one Athletic..."
The Power of Metaphor in Advertising
Harry explains the concept of 'muttonomy' and how metaphors can enhance advertising effectiveness. He uses Apple's famous '1,000 songs in your pocket' line to illustrate how a metaphor can create a vivid image and emotional connection with consumers. This segment highlights the role of creativity in copywriting.
"which is just like so a bad way of doing that ad. You're going to need a smaller cabinet might be um one drink to replace them all. You know, it's been said you want to write something that no one sai..."
The Impact of Effective Advertising
In this segment, Harry reflects on the success of Apple's advertising strategies, contrasting them with less effective campaigns. He emphasizes that strong copywriting can significantly influence consumer behavior and sales, showcasing the critical role of effective messaging in marketing.
"what? We need to show these two together. Yeah, because this is why I like it so much. Okay, these Mac and PC ads, this is the problem with PC ads where they were all about features and it was all abo..."
The Economist's Iconic Ad
Harry analyzes a famous ad from The Economist that uses minimal elements to convey a powerful message. He discusses how the ad's design and wording create intrigue and engagement, demonstrating that simplicity can be highly effective in advertising. This segment illustrates the importance of visual hierarchy and clarity in copywriting.
"deal. It's also a metaphor. It's an example of muttonomy. What's muttony? What's I don't know what that is. Matonomy is where a shorthand term stands in for a literal term. It's very technical, but I ..."
Creating Demand for Diamonds
Harry delves into the historical context of diamond advertising, focusing on the famous line 'How can you make two months' salary last forever?' He explains how this campaign transformed consumer perceptions of diamonds and created lasting demand. This segment highlights the power of strategic messaging in shaping consumer behavior.
"It's more punchy. One of the great ads. I well you I you should judge an app by how much it sells. Everyone had an iPod. Everyone walked around with an iPod. You look at the Vision Pro. I went straigh..."
The Process of Writing Copy
Harry shares his approach to writing copy, emphasizing the importance of understanding the current and desired attitudes of consumers. He outlines his process of connecting these points through effective messaging, illustrating the strategic thinking required in copywriting. This segment provides valuable insights into the mechanics of crafting compelling copy.
"your customer feel like they're making a smart decision, you're doing something right. So they're making you think, you know, god, if you want to be clever with your money, you're going to buy one of ..."
Identifying Your Audience
In this segment, Harry discusses the critical step of identifying the target audience in copywriting. He shares anecdotes about misaligned advertising efforts and the importance of tailoring messages to the right demographic. This highlights the necessity of audience analysis in creating effective marketing strategies.
"load of cash on a Ferrari, spending a4 million on an object that I could crash and break at any times. Okay, you know what? This is the smart decision. You're right. Bang on. I've never read The Econo..."
The Importance of Clarity in Messaging
Harry emphasizes the need for clarity in advertising messages, using examples to illustrate how straightforward communication can lead to better engagement. He discusses the balance between creativity and clarity, reinforcing that effective copy should be easily understood by the audience.
"There's no logo. The logo is the I've never read the economist. That's why it doesn't look like an advert. Adverts look when they've got you know that logo in the bottom right picture logo. It doesn't..."
Writing in Context
Harry Dry emphasizes the importance of writing copy directly in the platform where it will be published, such as ConvertKit for newsletters. He believes this approach allows him to visualize how the reader will experience the content, ensuring that the layout and flow are effective. This segment highlights the significance of context in copywriting.
"Photoshop where it's just that and it's not competing against anything. You want to do that and then you take that ad and you pull it into a picture where you've got seven ads around it, people walkin..."
The Purpose Behind Copywriting
In this segment, Harry discusses the necessity of having a meaningful purpose when creating copy. He shares his motivation for starting Marketing Examples, which is rooted in his belief that every marketer should learn to write. This segment underscores the idea that copywriting should stem from a vision or belief rather than just a monetary goal.
"That makes it a heck of a lot easier. Dave Gart says to me once, why did you start this business in the first place? Like, why? I run marketing examples. Why do you start marketing examples? Why am I ..."
Defining Good Copywriting
Harry Dry explains what most people think copywriting is and contrasts it with his definition. He uses the example of Hinge's tagline, 'designed to be deleted,' to illustrate how effective copywriting conveys a memorable message that resonates with the audience. This segment focuses on the essence of crafting impactful and memorable copy.
"So I'm going to go counterposition and build the opposite. So So market was exactly that. I I didn't have a career in marketing when I started that website, but I was just fed up of trying to learn ma..."
The Creative Process of Writing Ads
Harry shares his creative process for writing ads, emphasizing the importance of iteration and feedback. He discusses how he draws inspiration from existing ads, like Volkswagen's, and the significance of visual design in copywriting. This segment provides insight into the practical steps involved in creating compelling advertisements.
"app that's designed so that I can finally fall in love which is what people are looking for. It's write copy that can't be copied. No over app can say that now. H owns that phrase. And we're talking a..."
Understanding Conflict in Copy
In this segment, Harry explains the concept of conflict in copywriting, using examples to illustrate how contrasting ideas can enhance the effectiveness of an ad. He discusses different types of conflicts and how they can be leveraged to create compelling narratives that resonate with the audience. This segment highlights the strategic use of conflict in copywriting.
"like there's a lot to it. Um, it's probably about 20 rewrites. Are you looking at the same thing as me now? Yes, sir. You are. So, the difference between 1% and 2% is not just 1%, it's 100%. I saw thi..."
Refining Your Copy
Harry discusses the importance of refining copy through multiple iterations. He shares his experience of receiving feedback on his writing and how it led to improvements in his ads. This segment emphasizes the value of collaboration and critique in the copywriting process, showcasing how great ideas can evolve through feedback.
"So I had that idea. I was like, "All right, we need to set this up a little bit. So how can I write a header? Want to grow twice as fast? You've got two choices. Spend twice as much on ads or increase..."
The Role of Design in Copywriting
Harry highlights the integral relationship between copy and design, explaining how visual elements enhance the effectiveness of written content. He shares his approach to incorporating design into his writing process, emphasizing that both aspects should work in harmony. This segment underscores the importance of visual storytelling in copywriting.
"1% to 2%." starting to take a little bit of shape. And where are you at now? What do you like about this? What don't you like about this? Critique this and just give me a sense of I Well, at the time ..."
The Iterative Nature of Writing
In this segment, Harry reflects on the iterative nature of writing and the importance of persistence in the creative process. He discusses how initial ideas can evolve into stronger concepts through continuous refinement and exploration. This segment captures the essence of dedication and resilience in the journey of a copywriter.
"landing page, learn to write, and increase conversions from 1% to 2%. And then I think, how can I make that even shorter? I can get rid of learn to write and put that as the header. That ends up being..."
Feedback and Final Touches
Harry shares his experience of seeking feedback on his writing and how it influences the final product. He discusses the importance of collaboration and the role of design in enhancing the overall impact of the copy. This segment emphasizes the significance of external perspectives in the writing process.
"now for probably I don't know 2 3 hours and I just I don't know. I can't I can't work out if it's good or not. So, I text a few friends. Go on. One thing that's really revealing you just said I've bee..."
Crafting the Perfect Ad
Harry Dry shares his process for creating effective advertisements, emphasizing the importance of feedback and design. He discusses how he iterates on ideas, using repetition and rhythm in his copy to enhance engagement. The segment highlights the balance between creativity and structure in copywriting, showcasing how small changes can lead to significant improvements in messaging.
"page directly and if I do a billboard I'll get it up amongst all the other billboards and I'll put it in like where it is. I don't like doing stuff not where it is. So, I'm confused at this point and ..."
The Art of Simple Communication
In this segment, Harry Dry explains that copywriting is not about tricking consumers but about clear and simple communication. He emphasizes the importance of sincerity in advertising, using relatable examples to illustrate how effective copy can tell a story and engage the audience. The discussion highlights the value of crafting messages that resonate with consumers on a deeper level.
"ended up with. Let me synthesize a few things here. So the first thing this is I just realized what I love about the way that you approach this craft. It is that you when most people think about copyr..."
Learning from Inspiration
Harry discusses how he draws inspiration from existing ads and concepts to create compelling copy. He shares his approach to using parallelism and concrete language to enhance clarity and impact. This segment underscores the importance of building upon successful ideas while maintaining originality in copywriting.
"sinc. And then there's a few other things that stuck out. First of all, we started off with that quote from visualized value that you can increase from 1% to 2%. So you had this little C and you said,..."
The Value of Time in Copywriting
Harry Dry presents a compelling argument for the importance of learning copywriting by framing it in terms of time savings. He contrasts the hours marketers spend writing with the minimal time investment required to learn effective copywriting techniques. This segment highlights the practical benefits of mastering copywriting skills for long-term career success.
"because I got to tell you about write a passage. The training that we do is rigorous, but I promise promise that it won't have the sludge of your fifth grade English class. You know how I roll. I like..."
Framing Copywriting as a Skill
In this segment, Harry emphasizes the significance of viewing copywriting as a valuable skill rather than a mundane task. He discusses how effective copy can save time and enhance productivity, encouraging marketers to invest in their writing abilities. The conversation focuses on the mindset shift necessary to appreciate the craft of copywriting.
"hours. I think originally it was 20,000 but I wrote 22,000 because I wanted the parallelism word of the day really with spend two learning how to do it well. Um, so I had the 22 and the two. It's deli..."
Tesla's Compelling Comparisons
Harry analyzes a Tesla ad that compares the Cybertruck to well-known vehicles, illustrating how effective comparisons can clarify complex products. He discusses the importance of using strong, concrete language to enhance the message's impact. This segment showcases how strategic comparisons can make a product more relatable and understandable to consumers.
"can make a small number bigger, which I've done here, 4 hours a day, just by expanding the time frame. That's the technical side. Um, yeah, one of my favorites. Tell me about this Tesla ad that you ma..."
The Power of Facts in Advertising
Harry Dry discusses the role of facts in copywriting, emphasizing their importance in creating credibility and engaging the audience. He shares examples of how precise facts can enhance storytelling and make advertisements more compelling. This segment highlights the necessity of incorporating factual information to ground creative messaging.
"Also, what we said, can nobody else say this? What other car can say they're tougher than F50, faster than 911? There's no there's no car which exists which can say that. Read that one. This from the ..."
Precision in Communication
In this segment, Harry emphasizes the need for precision in communication, particularly in copywriting. He critiques vague language and advocates for using concrete facts to convey messages effectively. The discussion focuses on how precise language can enhance clarity and impact, making advertisements more persuasive.
"mean? So, in this episode, I start what Asana Asana spent 345 millions of pounds each year on sales and marketing. That's a fact. Jack Carowak lived on the road for 7 years. He wrote on the road in 3 ..."
Transforming Facts into Stories
Harry explains how to transform facts into engaging narratives in copywriting. He discusses the importance of grounding stories in reality while using facts to enhance relatability. This segment illustrates how effective storytelling can emerge from factual information, making advertisements more engaging and memorable.
"That's what I'm saying. I think that also the thing with a fact we don't understand with a fact. You start with a fact. You could turn it into something else, but start with a fact. It's true. Then th..."
The Importance of Credibility
In this segment, Harry discusses the significance of credibility in copywriting. He contrasts vague statements with factual information, highlighting how facts can lend weight to arguments. The conversation emphasizes the need for precision and clarity in communication, reinforcing the idea that effective copywriting is rooted in truth.
"listen to Alan Sheer the football. Yeah. And he just he says, "Why was England bad today?" And he says, "God, let's just not play him well. It's all wrong. Southgate this. Southgate that. Give me a fa..."
Crafting an Engaging Newsletter
Harry discusses the success of his newsletter, highlighting the significance of subscriber engagement over sheer numbers. He shares insights into his writing process, emphasizing the struggle and thoughtfulness that goes into creating content that resonates with readers.
"weight and credibility in what the announcer is saying. And I love the word that you said, precision. There is such a lack of precision in what people say. So, so um all well, all right. Modern writin..."
The Art of Writing a Newsletter
In this segment, Harry explains how he approaches writing newsletters, focusing on the structure and personal touch. He draws parallels between newsletters and letters, emphasizing the importance of context and relatability in engaging readers.
"It's the engagement. You once shared this screenshot. It's a while ago. I don't know if you remember this. And you shared the replies that you get for a newsletter. I've never seen a newsletter get as..."
Three Key Elements of a Newsletter
Harry outlines three essential components of his newsletters: density of content, the presence of conflict, and the use of short paragraphs. He explains how these elements contribute to readability and engagement, making the content more impactful.
"to to get something good. Um, how I write it, I I think what's a newsletter? Why is it different to a blog firstly? Like, why is it different to a to a tweet? Uh, and Hanley has this great line. It's ..."
Using Conflict to Enhance Engagement
Harry discusses the role of conflict in writing, explaining how contrasting ideas can create memorable content. He illustrates this with examples from his own work, showing how presenting problems and solutions can captivate readers.
"little, you know, bit at the start. But the actual meat of a newsletter, I think there's three things I do which not sure too many other people do. Firstly, you get five things in a newsletter, six th..."
The Importance of Short Paragraphs
In this segment, Harry shares his unique approach to writing short paragraphs, likening them to monkey bars for easy reading. He explains how brevity aids comprehension and keeps readers engaged, especially in a fast-paced world.
"That's positioning. Um so I like conflict in in in a news. I really I really like introducing some kind of conflict. The third thing, I only noticed this the other day. I was reading back previous iss..."
Finding Simplicity in Writing
Harry emphasizes that simplicity in writing comes from rewriting. He discusses Kaplan's law of words and how eliminating unnecessary words can strengthen ideas. This segment highlights the value of clarity and precision in effective communication.
"Walk me through this intro. Hey, it's Harry. It's 3:47 a.m. I'm in the big smoke alone. Laptop, green tea, looking at the whiteboard like a dozy dog. Six words on it. Five with lines through. Intro gl..."
The Process of Rewriting
Harry explains his rewriting process, which involves creating multiple drafts to refine ideas. He shares how this iterative approach allows for creativity and improvement, ultimately leading to clearer and more impactful writing.
"saying is a lot of writers don't see what's right. I I like it cuz it's not it's not particularly clever. Like it's it's actually boring. What stands out from that example is that the writing is so si..."
Structuring Ideas for Clarity
In this segment, Harry discusses the importance of structure in writing. He shares techniques for organizing thoughts and ideas, making complex topics more accessible. This approach helps readers grasp the main points effectively.
"the word and on a landing page is normally never a good thing. We sell jeans and t-shirts and socks and we we have dressing rooms. I buy jeans from Huy at denim. We've got shorts today but I buy jeans..."
Dividing Ideas for Better Understanding
Harry elaborates on how to break down complex ideas into simpler components. He emphasizes the significance of clear divisions in writing, using examples to illustrate how structured content enhances reader comprehension and engagement.
"of words. Third thing I I talk about when I'm talking about writing simply. Um I don't think it's something I do but I'll write a sentence or a paragraph um for a headline or whatever, and I'll I'll c..."
Maintaining High Standards
Harry recounts a lesson from a billionaire mentor about the necessity of maintaining high standards in work. He discusses how these standards shape the quality of one's output and the challenges that come with upholding them, reinforcing the idea that your work reflects your standards.
"There's a paper, I think it was published in 1971. It's called That's interesting. And the whole paper is just a formula for different ways to frame an idea to make it interesting. And the structure t..."
Recognizing Quality in Your Work
Harry describes the feeling of recognizing quality in his writing, likening it to a perfect garden where nothing can be removed or added. He illustrates this with examples of concise and impactful ads, emphasizing the importance of flow and simplicity in effective copy.
"nothing but your standards. Nine out of 10 plus it goes out. If not, you won't see it. Tell me about something you said a few minutes ago about knowing what good looks like. What is that feeling like ..."
Creating Conflict in Copy
In this segment, Harry discusses the role of conflict in storytelling and copywriting. He explains how to introduce conflict naturally without overusing conjunctions like 'but,' and shares a personal anecdote to illustrate how conflict can enhance narrative engagement.
"like worn by supermodels in London Dad's in Ohio. You can't add a word to that ad and make it any better. You can't take away a word and make it any better. It just is. Tell me more about the conflict..."
The Role of AI in Writing
Harry shares his perspective on AI's role in writing, asserting that while AI can be a useful tool, it lacks the essential qualities of taste and conviction that come from human experience. He argues that good writing stems from personal insights and experiences that AI cannot replicate.
"conflict you just go but butt what went wrong that's a butt that's conflict I got to ask how does AI show up in all of this for you is AI part of your writing and the thing that we've spoken about is ..."
Collecting Excellence for Better Writing
Harry discusses the importance of surrounding oneself with excellence to elevate one's own work. He shares his daily routines and practices that foster creativity, emphasizing the value of silence and focused action in the writing process.
"It seems like a lot of what you're trying to do is collect excellence surround yourself with all different kinds of excellence and then use those inspirations to basically set the standard for the wor..."