"the only thing that's worse than a channel or a tactic that you tried not working the only thing that's worse than that is when you didn't give it the appropriate shot right and and you prematurely or..."

"with that i bring you yuri timmin hey ashley head of marketing at flat file how many b2b sas companies would you estimate need to import csv files from their customers at least 40 and how many of them..."

"hear that i've consistently seen that improving onboarding is one of the highest leverage opportunities for both sign-up conversion and increasing long-term retention getting people to your aha moment..."

"they work with high-growth companies like gusto pipe classpass and marquetta modern treasury's robust apis allow engineering to build payment flows right into your product while finance can monitor an..."

"was only eight and a half years ago okay usually people round those up i'm impressed that you uh you get active i figured eight and a half is um long enough so i i mean yeah i i i'm not sure i wanna r..."

"been unsuccessful you're failing in your group she was like are you trying to push me to having a third kid i was like no no i swear this is just just product testing clever so i've had casey winners ..."

"because i've done it i've done it in a shorter period of time i i'm much newer to advising than both of those but no i have a ton of vibration respect both of them they're you know phenomenal what the..."

"and i feel like i'm not you know showing up as best as i can with each individual company as a early plug or anti-plug depending on how you answer this are you looking for more companies to work with ..."

"for work right and so maybe they're expensing it or just the perceived value so much higher that they're willing to bear that you know 120 130 a year uh subscription if i'm seeing things like that and..."

"uh if the utility increases the utility of the product increases the more users are using it another archetype i see are companies that can lead into seo very heavily especially if there is like a lon..."

"for that early on because that can become that can just you can build incredible mode with that kind of strategy that makes sense there's kind of like these three engines that you can tap into and i i..."

"right you think about what dropbox has done around uh you know file sharing like that's an iconic example then it's really powerful i think that there is another case where referral buyer looks could ..."

"people or there's amazing word of mouth already or there's collaboration probably a good sign that you could lean into virality yeah maybe referrals what about seo oh that's a good one it's a very it'..."

"later so i think i said you know with seo it's like the first pillar i'm gonna say is do you have a unique angle when you take a look at the seo landscape today uh you look at editorial uh landscape w..."

"possible i think as a rule of thumb like if you can time boxing to three months like what can i do that at the end of three months i know like is this likely to work or not awesome couple follow-up qu..."

"usually a very good use of time because they have templates so what they can turn but they can turn around you know for 5 to 10k would take you many many human hours to try to pull together yourself a..."

"scientists on the ship right okay so we've talked about reality talked about seo paid i imagine that's pretty straightforward if your ltvs are high enough and you can pay back ads on those then that's..."

"for the last 30 minutes no i'm kidding let loose all right i'm not kid friendly but nobody's cursed yet this could be okay all right all right um uh but anyways yeah so so i think there is a short a s..."

"uh attribution stack on average for companies combined with just a level of acceptance that attribution will never be as good as it maybe once was we're gonna probably get you know hit like come out o..."

"wow i haven't heard this perspective so interesting that the fact that it's gotten harder it's creating new opportunities for companies to do it better and more intelligently you said you mentioned a ..."

"etc it was leveraging data to some extent you would probably were doing it maybe on a quarterly basis and then you would only update it every quarter there was no way with media big slaughter there wa..."

"other forms of advertising i think it's still you're just yeah i think it's useful if you're spending a considerable amount was considerable essay north of 100 000 a month on paid media and if you hav..."

"incrementality testing which is typically really hard to do cleanly and also companies have always been often been wary about doing it because you have to like turn off a channel potentially in a key ..."

"right they're just like okay what do i actually do and so the more it's clear what to actually try and how to solve these problems the more people can actually make make change i had a couple question..."

"velocity this might be too hard to answer in a chat like this but you have any guidance for how to know when you've gone far enough i imagine there's a lot of nuance in detail there is there anything ..."

"frankly it's like what's the incremental lift for us as a team to to try to experiment with the next phase of this channel or this tactic and what is the opportunity cost of that right what are the ot..."

"one more quick question along these lines so you talked about these three broad ways companies grow oftentimes a couple of them work something i've seen and i'm curious if you agree usually one is lik..."

"there you know with canberra it was the seo lego right so for them that was working really well which is more defensible than paid right that sort of like long tail programmatic seo angle but look you..."

"put all of your energy like sure this one tactic is accounting for say 80 plus percent of your user acquisition but your user acquisition is still small right it's like don't don't get distracted with..."

"to optimize that versus being distracted by oh let's do seo now i see that argument for sure so you mentioned at this point about how later stage growth strategies are starting to move earlier into gr..."

"and then seo is for the grown-up companies right when we're that we can think about it and they were getting this reinforcement from everywhere from peers from vcs it's like it's growth growth growth ..."

"oversimplification number one because it actually like drives drives returns at efficient unit economics whatever that may mean for your company your business your industry the other way to do it is b..."

"maybe card on a little bit of budget if you want to quickly test you know positioning and and things like that but it's just it's just too soon but if instead i encounter a company that's really healt..."

"asymptote at like 25 30 percent what about like a conversion you know from a if you're a freemium from like a free user to a uh billion account or a paying account i think anything under five percent ..."

"almost all the time onboarding is a big opportunity awesome that's what i was expecting to hear to give folks some context what's kind of an order magnitude that you've seen improvement on onboarding ..."

"off i mean i think i think over reliance on paid it comes to bite shoe in in in the rear end i think when i think about tracking and attribution i think it's a question of like the right level of inve..."

"amazing all right are you ready for our very exciting lightning round i'm gonna ask you five questions i think and then just yeah let's go through a quick let's do it let's do it okay what are two or ..."

"that that is a book i swear by um i read a lot outside of like work and business so i don't know if it's appropriate but i'll say that if the freckles a man search for meaning it's just a remarkable m..."

"understand what's at stake not to end on two grandiose of a note we'll go less grandiose quickly but i will add one thing that stood out in that book that is also true in ukraine is how during the fir..."

"that i like that summary yeah so delightful maybe one more question uh who else in the industry do you most respect as a thought leader maybe someone people may not know or if anyone else comes to min..."

"it's kind of that's about it amazing yuri you are awesome thank you so much for making the time to do this i learned a ton i can't wait to get this episode out there's just so much meat to this thing ..."