"like the actual really small initial growth team we really had an aggressive mentality and aggressive approach and what that looked like was at the time a very small percentage of I think hubspot's su..."

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"it's a special place to be in and that I get to help lead HubSpot in terms of how we should be thinking about building the foundational technology to create AI powered experiences and then also lead t..."

"like a big you know strategic play for them for us excuse me at the time and it was meant to be disruptive but I don't think that there was a fully formed perspective on what was going to happen after..."

"and so I think to answer your question I think I was just willing to take some risks and really push for the things that I believed made sense even though maybe based on the titles uh that I had at th..."

"doing product-led growth the right way then you're trying to balance the science of you know and sort of taking like a somewhat hygienic approach to validating assumptions and hypotheses with being re..."

"important in my mind I think coachability is another one uh in in the sense that I still think that like the sort of sub-category of like growth product management is still like fledgling compared to ..."

"cool trait and I I kind of like categorize that under creativity you mentioned this phrase Relentless curiosity and it made me think about a story I read about you or the way you got into product mana..."

"think there's a lot more energy and interest around the the around the tradecraft and the function and so I think it's much easier today for someone to learn the fundamentals of product management wit..."

"think are all sort of important thought exercises along the way I would also say that if you're already at a shop you know where you are working a different function and you're sort of like product cu..."

"there's so much stuff that super resonates there one is that I always think of like the bare minimum job of a PM is just to be useful to people on the team and help them do better work and if like if ..."

"along those lines what did you find was most helpful to you to learn the craft of product management in the first few years what do you think back to like oh that was really helpful other than just do..."

"of bad product those years if I'm being completely honest like I don't know that I would look back at would I ship back then or what we we shipped back then and sort of say like you know they were the..."

"and having like a level of rigor around that and really being forced to articulate a hypothesis and have a point of view on what the outcomes might be before you actually build something we're all sor..."

"enjoy my conversations with people who decided not to use HubSpot and to really try to unpack what drove that decision and was it as calculated as I think sometimes we can all uh maybe assume that som..."

"absolutely I want to shift talking about HubSpot the business but one more last thing I wanted to highlight from what you just shared which is a really good Insight is you shared that your biggest inf..."

"into sort of a conversation about you know the difference between a manager and a mentor versus a sponsor and an advocate mentors are great don't get me wrong I have a ton of people that I would consi..."

"overpower the fear of being inadequate at something and you know I I played Sports growing up and so I I like being coached like I can take hard feedback and I like it because if I get better feedback..."

"which is a pretty incredible success story a from what my notes it's worth something like 30 billion dollars now as a business it's been around for 17 years still growing I think something like 30 yea..."

"those decisions maybe not easier but at least you can have more conviction around the why behind the decision at the end of the day another thing that I think makes HubSpot before you actually move on..."

"is there something in the way you operate that helps you systemize that like in your experiment plan or product specs or experiment results or is there a story of something where you just like ship so..."

"awesome okay so I cut you off in this one bullet points so far so electric you let's keep going yeah so uh we're talking about the things that make HubSpot special so customer obsession is definitely ..."

"codified today what amendments might we need to make in terms of who we want to represent uh ourselves to be to our customers and uh how do we want to work with with each other and investing in that l..."

"is this episode is brought to you by merge every product manager knows how slow product development can get when developers have to build and maintain Integrations with other platforms merge's unified..."

"your competitive Advantage with merge visit merge.dev Lenny to get started and enter great up to three customers for free is there anything really fun about the culture that like a fun thing that you ..."

"of letting it go but one of the things I think is like super dope that we do is we do this thing called peer week which was something that popped up uh during the pandemic and the tldr is that uh it's..."

"success elements that were key I would say the early years of doing freemium and and for the record there's definitely like a a an iteration of the growth team before I join that you know really like ..."

"some plays and what that looked like was uh at the time a very small percentage of I think hubspot's subscription Revenue would be described as like self-service like people putting in their credit ca..."

"moment of everyone saying oh well there might actually be something here and so that attitude of sort of saying that like every problem is our problem and and sort of being willing to like really take..."

"odd that there were so many humans involved in every stage of the customer journey and some of our customers just like I just want to be able to try the thing and like buy it if I want to be like I re..."

"more product like again think about it right like I think any company is probably searching for ways to operate more efficiently and if your revenue is so tied to like go to market head count like it ..."

"and saying okay cool like who is our customer what is the product that we sell how are our customers used to buying this thing how would they prefer to buy it in the future that they would like to liv..."

"to self-service right it's why there are companies that the value prop is just so like you don't need a person to sell you boom like I use a loom it's so intuitive that I can just decide on my own whe..."

"know across our entire business we've never taken sort of like a very pure everything here is for this line of business or this product line is going to be self-service without sort of being able to d..."

"comfortable with things not necessarily fitting into like clean boxes and seeing and and having conviction that a modular approach or a more hybrid approach is actually the way to optimize for the cus..."

"least at that point even though you're saying it was plg early on it feels like a huge shift to the business so I really like this framework you just shared of if you're trying to become more product ..."

"market approach where your product's job is to grow revenue and you use humans as a backstop and not the other way around right awesome and and I think the key thing is that like humans can be a backs..."

"broader without disclosing Trade Secrets of how HubSpot Works how would you describe the loop of growth of HubSpot in the words of you mentioned Brian Balfour and Farid but it's kind of the growth Loo..."

"how that album sounds are going to come and stick around for more and so in our pre plg days it was content marketing and you know white papers and listicles and ebooks and things that people had to d..."

"and I I would say an honest macro Loop in in the sense like that's the way we think about our flywheel oh man this could be a whole other hour of a podcast just diving into this stuff this is so good ..."

"up machine what I will say is being really aggressive about experimenting with new channels is so important and diversifying your channel mix is so important is so important because things can change ..."

"domain and it crawled your site and then gave you a set of sort of recommendations for how you would optimize your site and it was free right it was definitely a one-trick pony but what it did was it ..."

"know we have the I would say chat spot is actually and for those who don't know what chat spot is chat spot is a bit of an AI co-pilot that darmesh built that has sort of been very positively received..."

"like I I don't really interview as many like Frontline PMS anymore but I used to really like doing case study questions and like really random ones too I'd be like tell me how many people cross the Lo..."

"in those scenarios I try not to overdo them so if you think there's a lot of like inherent bias in some of those types of questions and so trying to think of things that are kind of like really relata..."

"do you have a favorite life motto that you come back to or you share with other people The Details Matter and that's both in work and life I imagine yeah The Details Matter The Details Matter and one ..."

"obsess over the details of something right whether that be art music products film whatever uh is I care a lot about that I love that and that comes back to a lot of the things we've talked about of t..."

"and most recently I bought a Garmin watch and that thing is just like magical like you you roll up to the First Tee Box you look at your watch it knows exactly where you are which golf course sometime..."

"bought in a while damn I love it and I was also thinking as you were talking about getting into golf connects back to your Relentless curiosity and resilience they look for in people that you hire so ..."

"the happy hour rotation these days I just had an apple is it aperol aperol Spritz right yeah I mean I'm not good at pronunciation I just had that for the first time it's amazing hey that's gonna be my..."

"have a Twitter I don't spend a ton of time x I have an X account but I haven't spent a lot of time on the the app formerly known as The Bird app but I'm on Instagram at milsy Joe Young which is a nod ..."