
63 segments available
Geoffrey Moore is an author, speaker, and advisor, widely known for his seminal book Crossing the Chasm: Marketing and Selling Disruptive Products to Mainstream Customers, which many consider the most important book ever written on go-to-market strategy. Moore’s work is focused on the market dynamics surrounding disruptive innovations, and how one overcomes the challenge of transitioning from serving early adopters to the mainstream. In this episode, we discuss: • What “crossing the chasm” means • What steps to take before you try crossing the chasm • The importance of winning a marquee customer • The role of executive sponsors in the sales process • The differences between visionaries and pragmatists, and how to build for each • Geoffrey’s four go-to-market playbooks based on stage: Early Market, Bowling Alley, Tornado, and Main Street • The problem with discounting before crossing the chasm • “Deadly sins” to avoid when crossing the chasm — Brought to you by: • CommandBar—AI-powered user assistance for modern products and impatient users: https://www.commandbar.com/lenny • WorkOS—An API platform for quickly adding enterprise features: https://workos.com/ • Arcade Software—Create effortlessly beautiful demos in minutes: https://arcade.software/lenny Find the transcript and references at: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com/p/geoffrey-moore-on-finding-your-beachhead Where to find Geoffrey Moore: • X: https://twitter.com/geoffreyamoore • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoffreyamoore/ • LinkedIn posts: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geoffreyamoore/recent-activity/articles/ Where to find Lenny: • Newsletter: https://www.lennysnewsletter.com • X: https://twitter.com/lennysan • LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lennyrachitsky/ In this episode, we cover: (00:00) Geoffrey’s background (04:03) What people often get wrong about Crossing the Chasm (05:58) Finding your beachhead segment (09:29) The four inflection points of the technology adoption lifestyle (15:45) Geoffrey’s bonfire and bowling alley analogies (18:36) Steps to take before trying to cross the chasm (22:19) Signs you’re ready to cross the chasm (25:19) Advice for startups on where to start (27:31) Thoughts on venture capital (27:53) A general timeline for crossing the chasm (30:52) What exactly is the “chasm”? (32:35) The difference between visionaries and pragmatists (36:05) Finding the compelling reason to buy (43:45) The Early Market playbook (45:46) The Bowling Alley playbook (48:39) Different sales approaches for early market and bowling alley (51:26) Changing the value state of the company (53:28) The Tornado playbook (57:35) Why combining playbooks doesn’t work (59:10) Using generative AI in different market phases (01:03:02) The risks of discounting (01:04:21) Other “deadly sins” of crossing the chasm (01:09:09) Positioning in crossing the chasm (01:10:36) Product-led growth and crossing the chasm (01:13:54) The challenges of software and entrepreneurship (01:16:35) How Geoffrey’s thinking has evolved (01:19:30) The importance of entrepreneurship and impact (01:20:42) His book The Infinite Staircase (01:23:58) Connect with Geoffrey Moore Production and marketing by https://penname.co/. For inquiries about sponsoring the podcast, email podcast@lennyrachitsky.com. Lenny may be an investor in the companies discussed.
Geoffrey Moore discusses the common misconception among startups in the chasm phase, emphasizing the danger of trying to attract any customer for revenue. He uses the metaphor of lighting a fire to illustrate the importance of focusing on the right audience and building a strong foundation before expanding.
"the tendency when you're in the chasm is I just need more customers I should take any customer I could find right because I we need we need Revenue right it's like taking a match and running it back a..."
Moore explains why startups must narrow their initial target audience to create a powerful market presence. He introduces the concept of the 'beachhead' strategy, highlighting the need for a marquee customer to establish credibility and attract an ecosystem of partners.
"is the author of maybe the most influential and important book on go to market ever written crossing the chasm even though it's sold over a million copies still feels like people continue to reinvent ..."
In this segment, Geoffrey Moore elaborates on how a startup can gain power in the market by consolidating its position within a specific segment. He emphasizes the significance of being a 'big fish in a small pond' to attract partners and create a viable business ecosystem.
"Jeffrey Moore after a short word from our sponsors let me tell you about command bar if you're like me and most users I've built product for you probably find those little in product popups really ann..."
Moore discusses the dynamics of market leadership and how ecosystems form around established companies. He explains that new startups must focus on becoming leaders in their niche to attract partners and build a sustainable business model.
"have search and chat products that let users describe what they're trying to do in their own words and then see personalized results like customer walkthroughs or actions and they do pop-ups too but t..."
Geoffrey Moore contrasts the motivations of visionary customers who embrace new technologies with pragmatic customers who seek proven solutions. He highlights the shift in sales strategy required to appeal to each group, emphasizing the need for social proof and references in the pragmatist market.
"some point your customers will start asking for Enterprise features like samle authentication and skim provisioning that's where work OS comes in making it fast and painless to add Enterprise features..."
In this segment, Moore explains how to effectively communicate with pragmatist customers by focusing on their specific pain points. He stresses the importance of asking probing questions to understand their needs rather than pushing product features.
"developer up to 1 million users check it out at work.com to learn more that's work.com Jeffrey Moore thank you so much for being here and welcome to the podcast well it's nice to be here Len and thank..."
Moore introduces the concept of the early market, where visionary customers are eager to adopt new technologies. He discusses the importance of having an executive sponsor to drive adoption and the unique challenges of selling to this segment.
"most about what people still don't get about the things that you teach particularly crossing the chasm you wrote that I think 33 years ago at this point you have a lot of follow-up books around the to..."
Geoffrey Moore outlines the transition from a project-based model to a solution-oriented approach as companies cross the chasm. He emphasizes the need for vendors to deeply understand customer problems and provide tailored solutions.
"however you choose to and and people people sometimes do that in ways that are just they actually end up Mis being very misleading about what what's possible uh so I I can remember one person early on..."
In this segment, Moore explains the bowling alley strategy for expanding into adjacent markets after establishing a foothold in the initial segment. He discusses how leveraging existing customer references can facilitate entry into new markets.
"with the fact that their world's more important than my world so I try to work with their with their with their world so that's exactly where I actually wanted to go next is this idea of starting very..."
Moore discusses the challenges of scaling a business beyond the initial target segment. He emphasizes the importance of maintaining focus while exploring adjacent markets to ensure sustainable growth.
"power around your company that you can navigate your future on your own power so where does power come from uh in an early adopting technology world first of all it'll come from can you get a lighthou..."
Geoffrey Moore discusses the transition from a project model to a solution model in sales. He emphasizes the importance of understanding the customer's pain points and engaging them in a dialogue about their needs, similar to how a doctor would approach a patient. This approach is crucial for scaling a business effectively and targeting the right market segments.
"problem is still un it's not that it's unsolved it's being solved in a crummy way and and by the way in a deteriorating crummy way so it's getting actually worse so there's pressure for them to act th..."
Moore introduces the Bowling Alley model, which illustrates how companies can expand into adjacent market segments after successfully capturing their initial target. He explains how leveraging customer references and partnerships can facilitate this growth, potentially leading to significant revenue increases in specialized industries.
"most other categories at some point you have this third inflection point which is it's when people go well wait a minute Wi-Fi isn't just for you know Financial analysts or isn't just for Wi-Fi is for..."
In this segment, Geoffrey Moore explains the Tornado phase of market adoption, where demand for a product surges as it becomes widely recognized. He discusses the importance of having a standard product and broad sales coverage to capture market share during this critical period.
"models and and and crossing the chasm was about that second amazing you touched on so many things that I want to talk about I definitely want to dive into the bowling alley metaphor and strategy there..."
Moore highlights the shift to the Main Street phase, where products become commoditized and services drive innovation. He uses Uber as an example of how service-oriented models can disrupt traditional product ownership, emphasizing the need for businesses to adapt to this changing landscape.
"that have made crossing the chasm uh uh successful the one that we wrote about first was this company called documentum and it's a good example so was a document management database back in the day th..."
Geoffrey Moore shares the bonfire analogy to illustrate the importance of focusing on the right initial target audience. He warns against the temptation to pursue any customer for revenue, advocating instead for a strategic approach that prioritizes quality over quantity in customer acquisition.
"petrochemical guys got well the the the chemical guys got then the petrochemical guys got and of course they're oil and gas and they say well you do an add dish we have all these leases and all these ..."
In this segment, Moore discusses the criteria for selecting a beachhead segment that is 'big enough to matter, small enough to lead.' He emphasizes the importance of having a marquee customer to establish credibility and visibility before attempting to cross the chasm.
"customer that puts you on the map so don't don't that's that because if you're not you need to get Vis you need to make yourself visible before you can make the crossing the chasm play Let's assume yo..."
Moore explains how a compelling use case can drive customer engagement and accelerate the sales process. He highlights the need for entrepreneurs to understand their target market deeply and to create urgency for potential customers to act on their problems.
"that's a fish to Pond ratio thing so you want to think about particularly as you're starting out if you if if you could if you could this is a B2B model predominantly if I could take the top 20 custom..."
Geoffrey Moore discusses the significance of securing marquee customers and the role of executive sponsors in the sales process. He advises startups to seek visionary sponsors who are willing to champion their solutions, contrasting them with more risk-averse pragmatists.
"with them amazing and this phase comes you kind of imply comes after say you're at a million dollars AR you don't do this sort of work of trying to cross the chasm at that point until you reach someth..."
In this concluding segment, Moore provides advice for early-stage startups on how to approach finding marquee customers. He suggests starting with smaller projects to gain experience and credibility before targeting larger accounts, emphasizing the importance of customer-led development.
"would go essentially the advice here is if you're a new early stage startup one of the biggest Milestones you want to aim for is a big Marquee customer like when I think about this and look at a start..."
Moore advises startups on the strategic importance of securing a marquee customer. He suggests starting with smaller projects to gain experience and insights, ultimately leading to cash flow break-even without relying on venture capital, unless absolutely necessary.
"thing there that is really interesting and then say that you are an early stage startup again how soon do you think it makes sense to invest in finding that big Marquee customer versus finding some sm..."
In this segment, Moore explains when it makes sense for startups to seek venture capital. He highlights that it should only be pursued if the technology is too costly to self-fund or if rapid market entry is essential. He reflects on the benefits of bootstrapping.
"I would try to get to cash flow break even on my own money with no Venture Capital the only reason you need venture capital is if the with two things either a that the technology is too expensive and ..."
Moore emphasizes the importance of value pricing instead of discounting when crossing the chasm. He uses the analogy of heart surgery to illustrate that customers prioritize quality and commitment to solving their problems over price reductions.
"yeah yeah that's I mean you know I'm I'm you know this is like another an English major doing math right so be careful but but because I am an English major and you know but but in general because aga..."
Moore shares a story about Figma's dedication to customer satisfaction, illustrating how startups can differentiate themselves by being deeply committed to their customers' needs. This approach fosters loyalty and can lead to significant market traction.
"that's a little bit weird because if you've invented chat GPT and now you're saying but I am going to solve the third grade math problem which is a real problem but chat GPT can do any I know but we'r..."
Moore explains the concept of the chasm in technology adoption, highlighting the differences between visionaries and pragmatists. He discusses how visionaries make independent decisions, while pragmatists require peer validation before adopting new technologies.
"sure they were using it and they were also just fixing the most ridiculous bugs that were not important because they just wanted to make sure they were really happy with it and where a larger company ..."
In this segment, Moore delves into the pragmatist's mindset, explaining their skepticism towards visionaries and the need for reliable references. He emphasizes the importance of securing a pragmatic customer as a reference to bridge the gap to mainstream adoption.
"important and this was funny because this I was working at a at Bridges McKenna which was this marketing agency that was sort of the Premier high-tech marketing agency in the 80s and we had all these ..."
Moore uses the metaphor of a junior high dance to illustrate the challenge of getting pragmatists to adopt new technologies. He discusses the importance of social proof and how early adopters can influence the decision-making process of more cautious customers.
"stuff yeah and the by these other pragmatists need to feel that this is my person this is just like and they love it I mean by the way one of the reasons that pragmatists have a certain it's not they ..."
Moore outlines the different product requirements for visionaries and pragmatists. He explains that while visionaries may accept a less polished product, pragmatists need stability and reliability before they are willing to cross the chasm.
"conservative with other so it it the way to really think about them is what is my Persona in relation to this decision I love this example of the Junior High dance problem where nobody wants to go ask..."
Moore discusses the necessity of establishing a compelling reason for pragmatists to buy. He emphasizes the importance of having a strong executive sponsor who can advocate for the product within their organization, overcoming inertia in the decision-making process.
"cross the CM and a big part of that is obviously there's they have bosses they have checklists they have compliance people they have it people they have they have people that need to build buy into th..."
Geoffrey Moore discusses the intense pressure he faced when tasked with solving a significant problem at work. He highlights the urgency and expectations from higher-ups, emphasizing the importance of addressing issues effectively to maintain credibility and avoid being replaced. This segment illustrates the high stakes involved in decision-making processes within companies.
"this problem to everybody in the room and our answer sucks he wouldn't say it that way but but that's the truth and and therefore we're kind of at the I mean I'm getting the message first of all my bo..."
Moore references insights from April Dunford's book, explaining the complexities of purchasing software in today's market. He notes that the fear of making the wrong choice often leads to inaction, as decision-makers prefer to stick with familiar solutions rather than risk their jobs on new software. This segment sheds light on the psychological barriers faced by pragmatists in the software buying process.
"product demo has never been easier with browser based recording arcade is the no code solution for building personalized demos at scale arcade offers product customization options designer approved ed..."
In this segment, Moore explores what constitutes a compelling reason for customers to buy a product. He discusses various scenarios, such as cybersecurity threats like ransomware, that create urgency for potential buyers. Moore emphasizes the importance of understanding customer pain points and how these compelling reasons can drive purchasing decisions.
"It come on let's move on it ain't broke don't fix it if it is broke who who has fixed it is there fix in production does the fix work I want that in other words it's a it's a basically to your to Apri..."
Moore elaborates on the distinction between compelling reasons to buy and the sales pitch itself. He stresses that the focus should be on the customer's problems rather than the seller's story. This segment highlights the need for entrepreneurs to gather problem domain knowledge to effectively address customer needs and facilitate sales.
"reason to but if you look around like you know kids who are struggling with school okay that the parent has a compelling resour anything with healthare compelling reason to buy anything with with with..."
Moore outlines the characteristics of the early market phase in the technology adoption lifecycle. He explains the importance of demonstrating disruptive technology and understanding the trapped value it releases. This segment provides insights into how startups can position themselves effectively during the early stages of market entry.
"hard for a series of entrepreneurs because they want to give a demo they want to tell the story they want to share their Vision the answer is we don't care we don't want to hear your story we hate Dem..."
In this segment, Moore introduces the Bowling Alley playbook, emphasizing the need to identify specific problems within targeted industries or use cases. He discusses the significance of maintaining intellectual curiosity about customer challenges and how this approach can lead to successful market penetration.
"even more helpful would be like what does it look like when you're in the early market like what do how do you know if you're in the early Market versus in the bowling alley versus in the tornado okay..."
Moore discusses strategies for addressing customer churn, particularly in the SaaS industry. He emphasizes the importance of diagnosing customer issues and understanding their unique challenges. This segment highlights how identifying symptoms of churn can help businesses tailor their solutions and improve customer retention.
"for the for the bowling alley one then then the Playbook is no within where's the problem and then you got to take it down in what geography what industry what profession what use case and that takes ..."
Moore stresses the value of problem domain knowledge for entrepreneurs. He explains how understanding customer pain points and challenges can lead to more effective sales conversations. This segment underscores the importance of listening to customers and gathering insights to refine product offerings.
"around the lead genin is hey do you have any of these seven symptoms of you know fatal churn right and people the people that respond to that add are pre-qualified and then and then the bdr if you're ..."
Moore outlines the transition from the early market to the bowling alley phase, emphasizing the need for businesses to scale their operations. He discusses the importance of changing the value state of a company to attract further investment and ensure long-term viability. This segment provides a roadmap for startups looking to navigate these critical phases.
"take notes and by the way this is a place where you probably still want to remember to use a pen because you actually want them to see you writing down their words because that means okay he's listeni..."
In this segment, Moore explains the concept of 'value state change' in the context of venture capital funding. He discusses how startups must demonstrate growth and stability to secure future investments. This segment highlights the critical nature of evolving a company's value proposition to ensure sustainability and attract investors.
"understand how Venture Capital funding works for a second this is important a venture capitalist gives you money and what they're buying from you with this money is I want you to use this money to cha..."
Moore elaborates on the significance of being cash flow positive as a measure of a company's health. He argues that while profitability is important, the primary focus should be on maintaining positive cash flow to sustain operations and growth. This segment underscores the strategic shift needed to attract investment at a favorable valuation.
"oh my God I'm running out of money so you you the sooner you can get off with the I'm running out I mean and particularly last year was well last year was fatal to a huge number of companies because t..."
Geoffrey Moore explains the tornado phase in market dynamics, where a category gains rapid acceptance and budget allocation from customers. He discusses how companies must compete fiercely for market share during this phase, as budgets are established and customers are eager to spend. This segment highlights the competitive landscape and the strategies needed to thrive in a tornado market.
"positive yeah and as long and you know and you'd like to grow and you might want to raise money but the point is if you do go out to raise money you get to raise money at a different valuation so the ..."
In this segment, Moore outlines the differences between the early market, bowling alley, tornado, and Main Street phases. He emphasizes the need for tailored sales approaches for each phase, explaining how misalignment can lead to failure. This discussion provides insights into the strategic considerations necessary for successfully crossing the chasm.
"was going to say AI is clearly a an example of being in the tornado so maybe just talk a little bit about what that is the tornado phase and then there's the Main Street Playbook so how do you know th..."
Moore warns against using the wrong sales strategies in different market phases. He explains that applying a project model in the bowling alley phase or a solution model in the early market can hinder growth and scalability. This segment stresses the importance of understanding market dynamics and adapting sales tactics accordingly.
"people go well yeah we all want we all want Wi-Fi we all want mobile apps we all want cloud computing we all want whatever it is and now what happens is and by the way the prag is heard is they went f..."
In this segment, Moore discusses how budgets are established in different market phases and the implications for sales strategies. He explains that in the early market, companies must create budgets, while in the bowling alley, they must redirect existing budgets. This understanding is crucial for entrepreneurs looking to navigate market transitions effectively.
"you know and a chimp is like a local gorilla I'm not the gorilla but but for my you know I'm not I'm not Cisco I'm Juniper but for Telos Juniper was the Cisco of Telos you know at that time so that th..."
Moore highlights the importance of targeting the right customer types in various market phases. He contrasts the visionary customers sought in the early market with the pragmatic customers in the bowling alley phase. This segment provides insights into how understanding customer motivations can drive successful sales strategies.
"continues working and doesn't deteriorate by the way the way I would just of last two is think of tornado as kind of the land and Main Street as the expand I mean that's not a bad way to think about t..."
Moore discusses the integration of AI across different market phases, emphasizing the need for companies to adapt their strategies based on their market position. He provides examples of how AI can enhance productivity and drive growth, illustrating the importance of aligning technology with market dynamics.
"overinvestigation Market has moved to the next phase but I'm really good at the old Playbook so I want to stay with the Playbook I'm good at and so that's when they get in trouble so I think that's ex..."
In this segment, Moore addresses the challenges and opportunities presented by generative AI in various market contexts. He explores how companies can leverage AI to improve their offerings while navigating the complexities of market adoption. This discussion highlights the evolving landscape of technology and its impact on business strategies.
"bless you know it's it's kind of like just an add-on to teams or to to your whole Office 365 Suite stuff that's in the tornado right now I don't know I'm trying to think about what in the what is the ..."
Moore outlines the 'seven deadly sins' of crossing the chasm, focusing on the pitfalls that can derail a company's efforts. He emphasizes the dangers of discounting before crossing the chasm and the importance of understanding customer needs. This segment serves as a cautionary guide for entrepreneurs navigating market transitions.
"think would and modest disruption for the bowling alley you'd say I don't if this is bowling alley or or early early market I'll say it's bowling alley so if you're Sal Con and you have the Con Academ..."
Moore explains why discounting before crossing the chasm can be detrimental to a business. He argues that discounting does not reduce risk for customers and may even increase it, as it can lead to a perception of lower value and reduced support. This segment outlines the importance of maintaining perceived value when transitioning to mainstream markets.
"were talking about that lawyer example I was thinking part of the pitch would be and it's also a lot cheaper but that reminds me of this other post that you wrote the seven deadly sins of crossing the..."
In this segment, Geoffrey Moore addresses the common mistake of misidentifying target customers when attempting to cross the chasm. He emphasizes the need to focus on a specific pool of potential customers and understand who controls access to that market. This insight is crucial for startups aiming to validate their market fit and secure early adopters.
"to pick on a couple of these other sins that you mentioned one is you call the Target customer mixup can you talk about that the key to this whole crossing the chasm Playbook is you know start with th..."
Moore discusses strategies for validating a beachhead market before attempting to cross the chasm. He suggests running targeted marketing campaigns to attract additional customers that fit the identified use case. This approach helps startups gauge interest and readiness in their chosen market segment.
"and you may not know them uh typically my experience is you probably have worked with at least one company in the industry at some point along the line it's it's it's kind of odd if you just had never..."
In this segment, Geoffrey Moore highlights the significance of securing marquee customers as a validation step before crossing the chasm. He explains how these high-profile clients can serve as a powerful endorsement, attracting media attention and facilitating further market penetration.
"might go after it so I think this is worth spending a little more time on this idea of how you know you're ready to cross the chasm so one is you find one very excited Marquee customer then you're sha..."
Moore elaborates on the differences between visionary and pragmatist buyers in the technology adoption lifecycle. He stresses the importance of engaging with economic buyers rather than just end users, as the latter may not have the authority to make purchasing decisions. This insight is vital for effectively positioning products in the market.
"the local if if there were if there was a local press they'd be all over it right the Castle Run The Castle Run thank you the Castle Run in 15 Parx thank you thank you exactly that was his Visionary t..."
Geoffrey Moore discusses the common confusion between compelling reasons to buy and compelling reasons to sell. He emphasizes that entrepreneurs often focus on their selling points rather than understanding the customer's pain points and motivations. This segment highlights the need for a customer-centric approach in sales strategies.
"then another deadly s which you've touched on but I think it might be worth sharing again is just this idea you call it the compelling reason confusion where instead of thinking about your compelling ..."
In this segment, Moore outlines effective positioning strategies for startups crossing the chasm. He explains how to articulate the unique value proposition by comparing the startup's technology with incumbent vendors and competitors. This positioning is crucial for establishing credibility and attracting customers.
"know you should come back and Dem with this to our this is really interesting right yeah it is really interesting kind of along those lines positioning how important is that and any advice on figuring..."
Moore discusses the implications of product-led growth strategies in B2B markets. He explains how these strategies differ from traditional sales approaches and the importance of understanding user behavior and telemetry. This segment provides insights into how product-led growth can be effectively integrated into market strategies.
"do and that's our positioning I love that say you're building a product Le Growth Company a bottomup oriented B2B SAS company is there anything that changes in your advice yeah if you're going to use ..."
In this segment, Geoffrey Moore addresses the necessity of building a sales team even for product-led growth companies. He explains that while these companies may initially attract users organically, they will eventually need a dedicated sales force to secure enterprise deals and navigate complex buying processes.
"can't because it's it's like saying well yeah I'm G to cure I'm G to cure um Co by just putting vaccines out in public places it's like no people need to learn more no so so you you you you'd have to ..."
Moore reflects on the continuous challenges faced by entrepreneurs, emphasizing that crossing the chasm is just the beginning of a long journey filled with evolving problems. He discusses the importance of resilience and adaptability in navigating the complexities of the software industry and maintaining competitive advantage.
"had product Le growth for a long time and I don't know if anyone's heard this perspective on it that if you really want to cross the G I imagine it happens in some form of well and here's the thing if..."
In this concluding segment, Geoffrey Moore shares how his understanding of market dynamics has evolved over time. He highlights the shift towards recognizing the complexities of B2B markets and the importance of federated decision-making in high-risk buying scenarios. This reflection underscores the need for continuous learning and adaptation in entrepreneurship.
"hardships and I know you went back and forth trying to correct this but what's your what's way to think about what happens so actually Martin and I had a couple to say his biggest by the way his bigge..."
Geoffrey Moore reflects on how his understanding of market dynamics has evolved, particularly regarding B2B markets. He notes that while his original model was tailored for B2B, the rise of consumer computing has shifted the landscape, making B2C innovation increasingly central.
"would say for the for the 20th century that was 95% attack but what was was was so interesting about the change in the century because remember right at the change of the century B2B Tech went in the ..."
In this segment, Moore emphasizes the significance of making a positive impact rather than focusing solely on wealth accumulation. He encourages entrepreneurs to leverage their skills for meaningful contributions to society, rather than chasing billionaire status.
"designed for that for that problem so that's that's a different problem so basically if you're building a consumer app don't spend time studying crossing the CM yeah if if you're doing B2B this is the..."
Moore discusses the themes of his book 'The Infinite Staircase,' which explores how to live a good and meaningful life. He addresses the challenge of upholding traditional values in a changing world and the importance of nurturing ethical behavior from a secular perspective.
"my goal I mean frankly I don't even know what a billionaire would even do with their money I mean I don't know how they even imagine their money that's a thousand million dollar I mean I don't doesn't..."
In this concluding segment, Geoffrey Moore shares insights from his book about how to integrate ethical values into daily life. He argues that these values can emerge from our nature as mammals and the nurturing we receive, rather than solely from religious teachings.
"of that book was twofold one was so I was looking around this is an American sort of experience the the between social media and the politicians or whatever our our ability to defend Traditional Value..."
Moore wraps up the conversation by inviting listeners to connect with him on LinkedIn. He encourages those interested in his work to engage with his blog and reach out for further discussions on the topics covered in the podcast.
"anyway that is beautiful message to end on I promised I'd get you out of here in one minute and so just to let people know you do speaking you do Consulting where can people find you online if they wa..."