
43 segments available
(00:00:00) Welcome to Invest Like the Best (00:04:29) Market Structure Evolution (00:07:09)The Impact of Passive Investing (00:08:51) Collaboration & Team Dynamics (00:12:18) Excitement in Periods of Extreme Change (00:12:51) The Role of Competition & Curiosity (00:20:30) Fundamental Research & Data Integration (00:26:04) Investment Philosophy (00:34:01) People-Centric Investing (00:40:54) Succession Planning (00:48:02) Facing the Pressure of Early Success (00:49:01) Burnout & Rediscovery (00:55:38) Learning from Industry Leaders (00:56:34) Evaluating Talent and Competition (01:09:59) Lessons in Investment (01:25:57) The Kindest Thing Anyone Has Ever Done For Kelly My guest today is Kelly Granat. Kelly is the Co-Chief Investment Officer and Managing Director at Lone Pine Capital, one of the most storied and successful hedge fund and investment firms of the last several decades. We explore how investing has evolved since Kelly joined the industry and she shares insights into Lone Pine maintaining its edge through deep fundamental research and a collaborative culture. We discuss what makes great businesses and great investments, how leadership can transform companies, and Kelly’s perspective on evaluating management teams and identifying opportunities around corporate change that the market often misprices. Please enjoy my conversation with Kelly Granat. Presented by Ramp: https://ramp.com/business-cards?utm_s... Sponsored by AlphaSense and Ridgeline: https://www.alpha-sense.com/invest/ https://www.ridgelineapps.com/ https://joincolossus.com/series/inves.... Full Transcript and Show Notes: https://joincolossus.com/episode/investing-at-lone-pine/ Patrick O'Shaughnessy: https://x.com/patrick_oshag
Kelly Granat discusses the significance of duration as a competitive advantage in today's market structure. She emphasizes how this advantage feels more prominent than ever, highlighting the transformational opportunities in the market and society that come with it.
"we've always said that duration is our single biggest Advantage but it's never felt more prominent and powerful than it is in today's market structure I love to compete I love a scorecard there's a ve..."
Kelly reflects on her journey from a summer intern in 2001 to a Co-Chief Investment Officer, detailing the dramatic changes in market structure. She contrasts the past's fundamentally oriented investors with today's landscape dominated by passive investing and pods, emphasizing the shift in how investment decisions are made.
"fun place to begin is the playing field of investing as you see it I'm especially curious about how it feels the most different not in terms of AI and like where the opportunities are but just like th..."
In this segment, Kelly Granat explains how the tools and techniques available to investors have evolved. She discusses the shift from siloed sector coverage to collaborative research practices, and how modern tools enhance portfolio construction and risk management.
"addition to that the tools with which we used to do our jobs were pretty different you would meet with companies you would read filings you would go to conferences you would try to do some proprietary..."
Kelly shares insights on how the dynamics of trading have changed, particularly with the influence of third-party data and setup dynamics. She discusses the importance of being positioned to capitalize on non-fundamental dislocations in the market.
"job right um in in addition obviously what I mentioned earlier we do now have as portfolio managers a lot of tools to help us think through risk differently portfolio construction differently and then..."
Kelly emphasizes the importance of duration as a strategic advantage in the current market environment. She explains how her firm has adjusted its gross exposure to allow for flexibility in capitalizing on market opportunities.
"discreet moments like in a quarterly calendar like is that a good thing for markets is it is that even the right way to think about it like how do you think about meing efficiency right is it a good t..."
Kelly expresses her excitement about navigating periods of extreme change in the market. She discusses the competitive nature of investing and the importance of curiosity and growth in her career, highlighting the dynamic environment of investment management.
"we can not have to play defense at the wrong time and it can actually lean in when everyone's leaning out and vice versa people that really love investing and I know you're one of them seem to get the..."
In this segment, Granat reflects on where future investment winners may emerge, particularly in the context of AI and technology. She shares her perspective on the consolidation of AI applications and the importance of being positioned in the right sectors. This discussion provides insights into the evolving landscape of technology investments and the strategic thinking behind identifying opportunities.
"where will the profit pools evolve and that's an ongoing live conversation inside of our firm and everyone's got different opinions and over what time frame and where is their fake Ai and where is the..."
Granat discusses the significance of private markets in fostering innovation and the emergence of new companies. She draws parallels to past technological transitions, highlighting how many successful companies often arise from private funding before going public. This segment underscores the importance of understanding market dynamics and the timing of investments in relation to company growth stages.
"high level you know obviously we have been um of the view or questioning of the view from the beginning I would say just stepping back that llms would not be where the value was ultimately probably la..."
In this segment, Granat explains how her team tracks market constraints and identifies sustainable profit pools. She discusses the shifting nature of these constraints and how they impact investment strategies. This insight into the analytical framework used by Lone Pine Capital provides a deeper understanding of how investment decisions are made based on market dynamics.
"not public yet and so our positioning has been more really around picks and shovels with the view that like let's see how the ecosystem evolves let's see where profit pools are going to be created ove..."
Granat outlines the research process at Lone Pine Capital, detailing how analysts are integrated into the firm and the collaborative culture that fosters idea generation. She describes the importance of mentorship and the hands-on approach to research that allows new analysts to find their voice. This segment highlights the unique aspects of Lone Pine's investment philosophy and team dynamics.
"thought process I'm curious about it just the literal Machinery of the firm so like how many analysts are there uh what do they do how does that feed into something else what do you do on top of it ho..."
In this segment, Granat explains how investment ideas are generated and discussed within the firm. She describes the structure of team meetings, including new ideas sessions and portfolio updates, emphasizing the importance of dialogue and debate in refining investment strategies. This insight into the collaborative process at Lone Pine Capital showcases how teamwork drives successful investment outcomes.
"when you start to get into 20s and 30s then you have a very siloed research team we don't that's not sort of how we're oriented and culturally not how we work um how it works is um and maybe the best ..."
Granat discusses the role of data in investment research at Lone Pine Capital, highlighting the collaboration between analysts and the data team. She explains how external resources are utilized to answer key investment questions and the importance of data-driven insights in the decision-making process. This segment illustrates the integration of technology and data analytics in modern investment strategies.
"see how we work at that point obviously they have an appreciation for our process how we approach companies how we talk to companies how we conduct research I maybe segueing to that part of the how ho..."
In this segment, Granat emphasizes the significance of risk management in investment strategies. She discusses the evolution of risk functions within the firm and how they contribute to better decision-making. This insight into risk assessment highlights the proactive approach Lone Pine Capital takes to ensure sustainable investment performance.
"three-person data team and the data team's role is a is is a couple different things they are our interface with third party vendors on the outside and internally with our research team they sit in on..."
Granat articulates the investment philosophy at Lone Pine Capital, focusing on how it adapts to rapid changes in the market. She discusses the importance of understanding exposure to emerging technologies and the nuanced risks associated with them. This segment provides a thoughtful perspective on maintaining a guiding philosophy while navigating a dynamic investment landscape.
"to be a supportive arm for fundamental research and answering key questions that's just sort of how the ideas get generated researched process we as an organization meet um two days a week Mondays and..."
In this segment, Granat reflects on the challenges of navigating market volatility, particularly in relation to AI investments. She discusses the potential for market reactions to be influenced by broader trends and the importance of being prepared for fluctuations. This insight into market psychology and investment strategy underscores the complexities of modern investing.
"actually beginning to transact in it and we want to kind of surface it to the group and debate it so that's the Thursday meeting so again all of this conversation is meant to Foster dialogue debate li..."
Kelly Granat discusses the evolving investment philosophy at Lone Pine Capital, emphasizing the importance of exposure to emerging technologies like AI. She highlights the challenges of navigating market dynamics and the need for a flexible approach to portfolio construction, especially in uncertain environments.
"know balance in the book and where returns are coming from and how how the composition is evolving as you approach this whole thing I'm curious if there is a fixed or fixed is investment philosophy th..."
In this segment, Kelly Granat explains how macroeconomic factors have become integral to investment strategies at Lone Pine Capital. She reflects on the shift from a purely fundamental focus to incorporating macro insights, discussing how this influences portfolio positioning and decision-making in volatile markets.
"challenge another way to think about it is there are certain investors that I would argue are playing a different game and there are certain investors that are playing the popular game best right like..."
Kelly Granat provides a behind-the-scenes look at how Lone Pine Capital processes significant market news, such as tariff announcements. She describes the collaborative discussions among portfolio managers and the careful consideration that often leads to a decision to maintain the status quo rather than react impulsively.
"you maybe the cariff is a perfect excuse cuz it sort of like happened and then unhappened you know very quickly may unen maybe unhappened who knows U but it's like a live thing just bring us into the ..."
Kelly Granat emphasizes the importance of people in investment decisions, likening companies to families with distinct cultures. She discusses how understanding leadership dynamics and company culture can drive performance, highlighting examples of successful transitions in management that have transformed businesses.
"it's a conversation that's live right and so I don't want to like all of this you know all the AI stuff these are all very live conversations that you know live inside of meetings but are constantly b..."
In this segment, Kelly Granat shares insights on identifying exceptional businesses and the leaders who can elevate them. She discusses the balance between investing in strong business models and the significance of leadership changes, using examples like Ulta and Starbucks to illustrate her points.
"exciting to us it is is something like Starbucks like the perfect example of the first thing you said where you know it's sort of this story that people are worried about skeptical about you know ther..."
Kelly Granat explores the interplay between business quality and leadership effectiveness. She discusses how Lone Pine Capital evaluates companies with strong fundamentals, even when leadership is less prominent, and the importance of understanding internal business dynamics to make informed investment decisions.
"you know with the benefit of hindsight never should have sold I mean they would have gone to very large positions over time so of course they would have trimmed but um look that's why a portfolio is s..."
Kelly Granat reflects on how Lone Pine Capital has evolved in response to market changes since its founding. She discusses the need for modernization in processes and technology, as well as the importance of collaboration and communication within the investment team. Granat highlights the shift in focus towards developing the next generation of talent and adapting to the changing landscape of the investment industry.
"the beginning you know what we have been doing with you know him officially stepping back to really just kind of a chairman type of role and Dave and I taking over as co-cio was to really transition w..."
In this segment, Kelly Granat discusses the changing definition of hedge funds and the need for firms like Lone Pine to adapt their strategies. She reflects on the historical context of the firm and how its approach to investment has shifted over the years. Granat emphasizes the importance of communication and storytelling in the modern investment landscape, highlighting the need for firms to articulate their growth and evolution.
"organization Dave and I are very focused now on kind of the Next Generation right you know I'm 50 Dave's I believe 54 maybe he's 55 I'm not sure if I'm in this seat in 10 years that's probably not the..."
Kelly Granat shares a personal story about discovering her competitive instincts at a young age while playing tennis. She recounts her experience of competing for access to practice on a backboard and the excitement that came with winning. Granat reflects on how this early experience shaped her understanding of competition and the drive to excel.
"love to hear the very first time you remember feeling your competitive Instinct in your life like going back as early in your life as possible um my sister will laugh at this if she listens to this so..."
In this segment, Kelly Granat opens up about her experience with burnout in junior tennis and how it led to a transformative moment in her life. She discusses the pressure of competition and the importance of taking a step back to rediscover her passion for sports. Granat shares how her college experience reshaped her relationship with tennis and the lessons she learned about teamwork and personal growth.
"made me feel very energized and excited and I feeling that I wanted to replicate what has it always been excited has it ever been nerves sure of course so what what when was it first nerves oh when wh..."
Granat discusses her early experiences in public markets and the gradual realization of her capabilities. She recounts her excitement about joining Lone Pine Capital, where she thrived in a culture of excellence and research, and shares a pivotal moment when she successfully challenged a seasoned colleague's perspective on an investment.
"experience and then allowing it to become something else for me I love that moment with your mom what was the kind of the same question more investing Centric what was the first formative experience y..."
In a memorable encounter with Steve, Granat describes how she presented her investment thesis on Gap Inc. Despite initial skepticism, she successfully convinced him of her viewpoint, which not only boosted her confidence but also highlighted the importance of being able to challenge established ideas in investing.
"attracted to the same types of Industries and companies um when I got to alone Pont I worked a lot with him and Steve was obviously sort of this super impressive you know figure who loomed large over ..."
Granat reflects on the characteristics of driven leaders, citing Mark Zuckerberg as an example. She discusses the importance of focus, boldness, and the ability to pivot quickly, emphasizing how these traits contribute to successful leadership and organizational culture.
"sense and he turns around and just writes to and I was like okay maybe I actually know something because he knows more about this whole space than body on the planet in our world you know who's living..."
Granat shares her approach to hiring, emphasizing the value of competitive athletes and individuals who have faced adversity. She highlights the importance of curiosity, hard work, and the ability to learn from failures as key traits for success in the investment field.
"are wrong meta um it's having knowing when to be bold and when to be humble attracting challenging you know motivating a really talented organization um and vulnerability and when you think about all ..."
Discussing the challenges of decision-making in investing, Granat emphasizes the need for a balance between continuous learning and knowing when enough information is available to make a decision. She warns against analytical paralysis and stresses the importance of being decisive.
"to figure out if there's a fit how this person Works um how they think so for me I look for a couple things um it won't surprise you to hear that I love hiring competitive athletes um who have compete..."
Granat discusses her perspective on competition within the investment industry, noting that her closest friends are often seen as competitors. She emphasizes a collaborative spirit, focusing on self-improvement rather than rivalry, and highlights the importance of relationships built over years in the industry.
"thinking that um often can position us really well to to make money so who do you view as your competition is it firms is it just the whole Market is it it's so funny because the firms that we're alwa..."
Granat reflects on the significance of leadership in shaping the trajectory of businesses. She shares insights from her experiences, noting how strong leadership and teamwork can create resilience and drive success, especially in challenging market conditions.
"wall of XYZ firm or someone's numbers that I'm tracking to say oh we did better than that person um it's it's actually sort of the opposite which might be counterintuitive is that I root for a lot of ..."
In a discussion about market dynamics, Granat outlines the traits of successful companies in a challenging economic environment. She emphasizes the importance of clear strategy, accountability, customer care, and long-term orientation as key differentiators between winners and losers in the market.
"interesting and maybe not really well understood outside in I'm curious how much more or less you feel like leadership matters than early on in your career like a couple of the examp you've given is t..."
Granat elaborates on the strategic decisions that successful companies make, contrasting them with those that struggle. She discusses the importance of having a focused strategy, accountability in execution, and a long-term vision that aligns incentives across the organization.
"think strong leadership great teams you know a lot of um collaboration across those teams and a lot of like ups and downs that everyone experiences together that is creates so much resilience um I jus..."
Kelly Granat discusses the key differentiators between successful and unsuccessful companies in a challenging cost of capital environment. She emphasizes the importance of clear strategy, accountability, and a customer-centric approach. Granat highlights how companies that prioritize long-term thinking and effective communication with the market tend to outperform those that do not.
"still making airplanes Uber's still driving people around lift is too so so what is what are yeah list those things like what are the winners doing in a in a real cost of capital environment that the ..."
In this segment, Kelly Granat reflects on the market's transition from a zero-interest-rate environment to one where cost discipline is paramount. She explains how companies that previously thrived on growth at any cost must now adapt to a new reality where accountability and valuation support are critical. Granat shares insights on how this shift impacts decision-making and investment strategies.
"two are able to communicate to the market you know a a a consistent level of execution right we we joke a lot internally that and I say this a lot to management teams every time you open your mouth to..."
Kelly Granat recounts the challenges faced by Lone Pine Capital during the market downturn at the end of 2021 and early 2022. She discusses the lessons learned from this period, including the importance of accountability in valuation and the need for a balanced portfolio. Granat emphasizes the necessity of adapting quickly to changing market conditions and the mistakes made in not reacting swiftly enough.
"and has helped me make better decisions versus like an input that was one of 10 that didn't actually change anything for me right what has been the worst period of returns that you've experienced at L..."
In this insightful segment, Kelly Granat outlines the characteristics of the ideal business. She highlights the significance of strong leadership, robust unit economics, and a compelling value proposition. Granat discusses the importance of organic growth potential and the ability to sustain long-term success without disruption, providing a framework for evaluating investment opportunities.
"respond quickly enough to a conversation we were having as well as the market was having at the same time around sort of a different a different regime from a macro perspective an interest rate perspe..."
Kelly Granat shares her perspective on promising sectors for investment, including aerospace and non-bank financials. She explains the unique attributes of these industries, such as organic growth and pricing power, that make them attractive. Granat emphasizes the importance of thorough research and understanding market dynamics to identify undervalued opportunities in these sectors.
"years without being disrupted if we're doing our jobs right and in terms of the management team of the company that's running it and and maybe like an adjacent question is the perfect investment becau..."
Granat shares insights on the consumer sector, noting the challenges of finding long-term growth opportunities. She reflects on the recent performance of major players like Walmart and the implications of their high valuations, suggesting that the market has recognized these winners, leaving less room for underappreciated growth.
"time so I think those that's another big area those are two I mean consumer is harder I would say most businesses were more active there on the short side than the long side at this point just because..."
In this segment, Kelly Granat addresses the undervaluation of active management in the current market landscape. She contrasts the short-term focus of many investors with Lone Pine's long-term compounding strategy, emphasizing the importance of fundamental analysis and the challenges posed by market pressures on investment decisions.
"businesses that we love if you think about the whole industry what do you think is the biggest problem facing the investing world I mean certainly the funds flows of the last bunch of years would tell..."
Granat explains the dynamics of market reactions to earnings reports, highlighting the influence of peer networks and short-term incentives within investment firms. She discusses how these factors can distort stock performance and the need for long-term investors to adapt their strategies in response to market behavior.
"what the Market's missing so say one more click about how the pods work from your perspective and the weird the weird incentives in there I mean you have inside of these shops 20 30 40 desks or pads a..."
Kelly Granat shares a personal story about the kindest advice she received from a golf pro during her college years. He encouraged her to prioritize meaningful relationships and show up for the people who matter in her life, a lesson she reflects on as she navigates her career and personal growth.
"amazing story I always ask the same traditional closing question what is the kindest thing that anyone's ever done for you so the summer after my freshman year of college I taught tennis at a camp in ..."