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Brett Johnson: US Most Wanted Cybercriminal | Lex Fridman Podcast #272
121 segments available
Brett Johnson was a US Most Wanted cybercriminal, called the Original Internet Godfather by US Secret Service for building the first organized cybercrime community called ShadowCrew, which was the precursor to today's darknet and darknet markets. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Public Goods: https://publicgoods.com/lex and use code LEX to get $15 off - NetSuite: http://netsuite.com/lex to get free product tour - Blinkist: https://blinkist.com/lex and use code LEX to get 25% off premium - MasterClass: https://masterclass.com/lex to get 15% off - Onnit: https://lexfridman.com/onnit to get up to 10% off EPISODE LINKS: Brett's Twitter: https://twitter.com/GOllumfun Brett's Website: https://anglerphish.com PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 3:15 - Early years 37:32 - Phishing and social engineering 55:36 - SolarWinds cyberattack 1:01:23 - Future social engineering fears 1:04:04 - Early cybercrimes 1:16:38 - Cybercrime entrepreneurship 1:20:06 - ShadowCrew 1:51:10 - Dark web 1:59:56 - ShadowCrew arrested 2:11:55 - Cybercrime 2:17:02 - Love 2:49:06 - Prison 3:17:18 - Life after prison 3:39:06 - Advice for young people 3:40:30 - Hope for the future 3:43:59 - Meaning of life SOCIAL: - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman
Segments Timeline
The Run and the Revelation
Brett Johnson recounts a pivotal moment during his time as a fugitive, revealing how he discovered his name on a most wanted list while engaging in cybercrime. This segment highlights the tension and fear of being hunted, as well as the notoriety that came with his criminal activities.
"i was on the run for four months stole 600 thousand dollars i was in las vegas nevada one day i had stolen the night before i stole 160k out of atms went in the next the next morning i woke up signed ..."
The Original Internet Godfather
In this segment, Brett Johnson introduces himself as the 'Original Internet Godfather,' discussing his role in creating ShadowCrew, the first organized cybercrime community. He reflects on his journey through the cybercrime world and the impact of his actions over nearly two decades.
"the following is a conversation with brett johnson a former cyber criminal who built the first organized cyber crime community called shadow crew that is the precursor to today's dark net and dark kni..."
A Childhood of Crime
Brett shares the origins of his criminal behavior, tracing it back to his childhood in Eastern Kentucky. He describes a tumultuous family life, where his mother was deeply involved in fraud and crime, shaping his understanding of morality and legality from a young age.
"placed on the us most wanted list in 2006 before being convicted of 39 felonies for cybercrime escaped from prison and then eventually being locked up served his time and now is helping people underst..."
The Influence of Family
In this segment, Brett discusses the complex dynamics of his family, particularly his mother's manipulative behavior and his father's passive nature. He reflects on how these relationships influenced his path into crime and shaped his understanding of trust and betrayal.
"it's our responsibility and burden of being human in a complicated and dangerous world this is the lex friedman podcast to support it please check out our sponsors in the description and now dear frie..."
The First Steps into Crime
Brett recounts his early experiences with crime, including shoplifting food with his sister. He describes how these actions were normalized in his environment and how he learned to navigate the world of theft at a young age, setting the stage for his later involvement in cybercrime.
"it sounds like she diversified the methodologies by which she uh hustled very had that entrepreneurial spirit okay you know we we see that a lot with with cyber criminals you know that that sense of b..."
The Cycle of Abuse
Brett opens up about the abuse he and his sister faced from their mother, detailing the psychological and physical trauma that marked their upbringing. This segment explores the impact of such experiences on his mental health and future choices.
"it and denise kicks her through a closet is what happens and uh denise stands up and she said uh you're through hitting me and that was the last time that mom hit us at that point but so sorry to take..."
A Moment of Violence
In a shocking revelation, Brett describes a violent incident at the age of 15, where he attacked a woman in an elevator. He reflects on the anger and confusion that led to this moment, highlighting the deep-seated issues stemming from his childhood.
"tell him that hey i'm leaving you i don't love you anymore i want you to die blah blah blah blah blah this was my mom um there were two instances where the man where he can't take it anymore and the f..."
Consequences of Anger
Brett discusses the aftermath of his violent outburst, including his arrest and the psychological evaluation that followed. He reflects on how this incident marked a turning point in his life, leading to feelings of isolation and shame in his community.
"in a nutshell and she had a history of doing this kind of stuff um motivations as far as fraud with her i think with her it was uh she was an lpn she had a very good nurse but she didn't want to work ..."
The Path to Redemption
In this segment, Brett contemplates the possibility of redemption and the influence of his childhood on his adult choices. He emphasizes the importance of personal responsibility while acknowledging the lasting impact of his early experiences.
"my mom like i said she used to bring men home in front of my dad she would he'd sit there and cry and beg her not to do it she'd do it anyway when she leaves him she kept up that so we were we were li..."
The Elevator Incident
Brett Johnson recounts a pivotal moment from his youth when he violently attacked a woman in an elevator, who resembled his mother. This incident led to his arrest by the Kentucky State Police and marked the beginning of his troubled relationship with authority and his community. He reflects on the anger that fueled his actions and the consequences that followed, including spending three months in solitary confinement.
"didn't really know what the fuck happened didn't really know but uh just anger came from somewhere yeah yeah and uh you know the elevator beat the hell out of this lady turned out she looked a shitloa..."
Struggles in High School
After the elevator incident, Brett Johnson faced ostracism at school, feeling like a pariah among his peers. He describes the challenges of transitioning to a new high school where he was initially rejected by students. Eventually, he found acceptance at a different school, where a supportive teacher recognized his potential and encouraged him to participate in drama and academics, leading to a significant turnaround in his life.
"i became this pariah in the county uh it's crazy man i mean not a day goes by that i don't think about that that that moment in the elevator yeah and and what happens is is uh you know you're 15. fuck..."
Finding Purpose in Drama
Brett Johnson shares how a teacher named Carol Combs became a pivotal figure in his life, guiding him towards success in academics and drama. He reflects on how her mentorship helped him excel in competitions and ultimately win accolades, transforming his identity from a troubled youth to a respected student. This segment highlights the importance of positive influences in overcoming adversity.
"this english teacher name's carol combs i walked in and handed her the paper she was my homeroom teacher and she heard this voice as the way she explains it to me she heard this voice and she looks up..."
Turning Down Opportunities
Despite his success in high school, Brett Johnson reveals that he turned down multiple scholarships for college due to fear of leaving home. He recounts a significant moment when a theater director offered him a scholarship, only to be scared off by his mother's aggressive behavior. This decision marked a turning point, leading him deeper into a life of crime as he struggled with his family dynamics.
"you'd make a hell of a i mean of all the many things you could probably do you make a hell of a actor i'm very good on stage i'm very good on stage have you acted professionally anywhere or not not no..."
A Life of Crime Begins
Brett Johnson discusses how his upbringing in a family involved in illegal activities led him to embrace a life of crime. He describes various illegal operations, including drug trafficking and illegal coal mining, that he was exposed to as a child. This segment illustrates how his environment shaped his choices and set the stage for his future as a cybercriminal.
"had no idea what went on it takes me a couple weeks what happened is my mom he walks in introduces himself my mom pulls a knife on the guy i will kill you you are not going to steal my goddamn son fro..."
Understanding Illegal Mining
In this segment, Brett Johnson explains the intricacies of illegal coal mining in Eastern Kentucky, detailing the lack of permits and the risks involved. He shares insights into the operations, including how coal is mined without proper authorization and the challenges of evading law enforcement. This discussion provides a deeper understanding of the criminal landscape he grew up in.
"all that crap on top of it all right the reclamation gets pretty expensive so if you're uncovering a pit of coal you know a pit so a ton of coal is basically about 36 cubic inches that's what what two..."
Charity Fraud Explained
Brett Johnson elaborates on his involvement in charity fraud, describing how he would collect donations under false pretenses for various causes. He explains the mechanics of setting up fake charities and the deceptive practices he employed to exploit people's goodwill. This segment sheds light on the moral decay that characterized his early criminal activities.
"two o'clock in the morning hauling this ass out is what you're doing you sell it out from there so and your mom ran operations like this yeah yeah and you said you worked the mine too yeah you were yo..."
Complex Family Dynamics
Brett Johnson reflects on his complicated relationship with his parents, particularly his mother, who was abusive. He discusses the emotional toll of growing up in such an environment and how it shaped his views on love and responsibility. This segment highlights the psychological impact of familial abuse and the struggle for forgiveness.
"prior to 52 i'd have been like no you need to do this but i looked at him and i was like i understand i understand you're done and uh so he's not going to get the operation i was talking to him yester..."
Coming to Terms with Abuse
In this poignant segment, Brett Johnson shares his journey of understanding and coping with the abuse he faced as a child. He discusses the differences in how he and his sister dealt with their traumatic upbringing and the realization that he had to take responsibility for his own life. This reflection emphasizes the importance of self-awareness and healing.
"you know are you able to forgive her your mom my my boundary with my mom the reason i've not spoken with her over two years ago i started um this this legal career of mine i i've been the guy who has ..."
The Cycle of Abuse and Crime
Brett Johnson reflects on his childhood experiences with abuse and how it shaped his path into cybercrime. He discusses the expectations placed on him as a male in Eastern Kentucky and how he felt compelled to engage in criminal activities to protect his partner, Denise, from the same fate. This segment highlights the psychological impact of abuse and the complex motivations behind criminal behavior.
"it's a control mechanism the only control you had was that and she's like kids do that and i was like so i'm not unique she's like no you're not unique in that so um that you know this whole history o..."
Despicable Acts of Cybercrime
In this segment, Brett Johnson recounts some of the most egregious acts he committed during his cybercrime career, including stealing from a family in need and sending counterfeit checks that led to wrongful arrests. He candidly admits to his lack of empathy for victims, revealing the mindset that drove his criminal actions. This discussion sheds light on the moral decay often present in the world of cybercrime.
"that so um your life of cybercrime and describing some of the things you did or knew about you said quote i once stole several thousand dollars worth of coins from a family trying to sell them to put ..."
The Coin Lady: A Personal Story
Brett shares a specific story about a woman he defrauded while she was trying to sell her silver coin collection to afford a new roof for her home. He details how he manipulated her trust through social engineering, showcasing the emotional and ethical implications of his actions. This narrative exemplifies the personal toll of cybercrime on innocent victims.
"it which lady the coin lady i was uh by that point shadow crew had made the front cover of forbes august of 04 october 26 though for secret service had to shut us down 33 people rested six countries i..."
The Art of Social Engineering
Brett Johnson explains the techniques of social engineering he mastered as a child, which later translated into his criminal activities. He discusses the duality of empathy and manipulation, emphasizing how understanding a victim's emotions can lead to successful scams. This segment explores the psychological tactics used by cybercriminals to exploit trust.
"didn't give a damn it was more important was me at that point can i ask you a question about the social engineering aspect so maybe specifics like the methodology email you said phone maybe you could ..."
Trust and Manipulation in Cybercrime
In this segment, Brett delves into the concept of trust in the context of cybercrime, explaining how criminals establish trust with their victims through technology and social engineering. He discusses the balance between naivety and skepticism that individuals must navigate in the digital world, highlighting the challenges of maintaining security online.
"exactly and i would argue i would argue that that is not a sociopath because a cyber criminal and i was no different most cyber criminals justify those actions so the justification becomes what's impo..."
The Evolution of Phishing Attacks
Brett Johnson reflects on the early days of phishing attacks, describing how they were initially easy to execute due to a lack of awareness among victims. He contrasts this with modern phishing tactics, which have become more sophisticated and targeted. This segment provides insight into the evolution of cybercrime and the ongoing challenges of digital security.
"have this uh you have a lot of conspiracy theories now about distrusting institutions and thinking like everything around us it's like i've been listening to uh people who believe the earth is flat an..."
Business Email Compromise Explained
Brett discusses the mechanics of business email compromise (BEC) scams, detailing how attackers gather information to craft convincing phishing emails. He explains the process of impersonating executives to manipulate employees into transferring funds, illustrating the vulnerabilities within organizations. This segment highlights the importance of cybersecurity awareness in preventing such attacks.
"all right it's it's not really coming up with a brand new story at all it's just knowing what that victim is what the motivations of that victim is feeding into it at that point so you have to again t..."
Exploiting Financial Systems
In this segment, Brett shares how cybercriminals exploit financial systems, particularly through pump-and-dump schemes involving stolen e-trade accounts. He discusses the implications of these actions on victims' retirement savings and the lack of accountability from financial institutions. This narrative underscores the real-world consequences of cybercrime on individuals and the financial sector.
"saying hey we've got a security problem we need you to update your account information well back then no one had ever seen a phishing attack so you could ask for all the information you were getting j..."
The Sad Reality of Phishing Today
Brett expresses his sadness over the ongoing prevalence of phishing scams and the emotional toll they take on victims. He discusses how scammers have adapted to become more convincing, making it increasingly difficult for individuals to discern legitimate communications. This segment emphasizes the need for continued education and vigilance in the face of evolving cyber threats.
"bam bam bam and of course e-trade's response is not our problem it's your problem you shouldn't give up your password or what have you at that point and you still see that issue today with zell scams ..."
The Legality of Cybercrime
Brett Johnson addresses the legal implications of cybercrime, particularly focusing on spear phishing. He discusses the challenges of prosecuting such crimes when there is no clear victim or monetary loss, highlighting the complexities of cyber law. This segment provides a thought-provoking look at the intersection of legality and morality in the digital age.
"so so when phishing first comes out you could look at the language of the text or the website and say yeah if you if you were paying attention that that's so okay so that's not an english speaker who ..."
SolarWinds: A Case Study
Brett discusses the SolarWinds cyberattack, explaining how it compromised numerous organizations by exploiting vulnerabilities in their systems. He critiques the company's accountability and the broader implications for cybersecurity. This segment serves as a cautionary tale about the importance of robust security measures in protecting sensitive information.
"that looks like an eye but without the dot on top all right comes back into the email into the payroll email blocks the real ceo's email replaces that with the unicode email that he's got and then sen..."
The SolarWinds Catastrophe
Brett Johnson discusses the SolarWinds cyberattack, emphasizing the responsibility of the actual criminals behind the attack rather than the company itself. He details how SolarWinds' vulnerabilities were ignored for years, leading to a catastrophic breach that exposed sensitive information across numerous organizations. Johnson highlights the implications of such attacks and the ongoing threat they pose to cybersecurity.
"uh like you are the victim of qnap's incompetence that's the way they kind of phrase it and see i don't agree with that i don't agree with that at all so solarwinds [Laughter] let's so i've got a 130 ..."
Understanding SolarWinds
In this segment, Brett Johnson explains what SolarWinds is and its role in cybersecurity. He describes how the Russian group hacked into SolarWinds, gaining access to sensitive data from thousands of clients. Johnson paints a grim picture of the aftermath, indicating that the attack has created a long-lasting threat landscape that organizations may never fully recover from.
"solarwinds was very it was it provided a background a backbone of security for hundreds thousands of different companies um if you looked at a lot of security companies were using solar winds that wou..."
Nation-State Involvement in Cybercrime
Brett Johnson explores the involvement of nation-states in cybercrime, particularly focusing on countries like Russia, China, and North Korea. He discusses how these nations collaborate with cybercriminals to steal information and money, highlighting the sophisticated nature of these attacks and the motivations behind them. Johnson emphasizes the growing complexity of cyber threats in the modern world.
"all right and something that you are not going to recover from you're not i mean it's done at that point um you know there's not been a lot of news lately about it but the fact of the matter is is tha..."
The Evolution of Cyber Attacks
In this segment, Johnson reflects on the evolution of cyber attacks, particularly the sophistication of social engineering tactics. He contrasts technical sophistication with social engineering, explaining how access to source code can amplify the effectiveness of cybercriminals. Johnson warns of the cascading effects of such attacks on cybersecurity and the potential for future vulnerabilities.
"like there's been a lot of negative impact but we're just starting right so that's starting the capacity for destruction is huge here how much involve involvement from nation states do you think there..."
The Perception of Truth in Cybersecurity
Brett Johnson shares his insights on the perception of truth in the digital age, arguing that it often outweighs objective truth. He discusses the implications of deep fakes and misinformation, emphasizing the need for trust in human interactions. Johnson suggests that society may need to adapt to a reality where consensus replaces absolute truth, raising concerns about the future of trust in the digital landscape.
"boys in this game all right because all of a sudden it's not i don't have to worry about social engineering i've got source codes and i've got professionals that are looking at that and that's your as..."
Building ShadowCrew: The Original Cybercrime Community
Brett Johnson recounts the founding of ShadowCrew, the precursor to today's darknet markets. He shares personal anecdotes about his early life and how he transitioned into cybercrime. Johnson's story illustrates the origins of organized cybercrime and the motivations that drove him to create a community that would shape the future of online criminal activity.
"style consensus so you let go of like you know what uh there's this human dream you get this on the internet you get like facts as if there's at the bottom at the bottom there's one turtle that's hold..."
The Art of Deception
Brett Johnson shares a vivid example of how he executed a scam involving a blue elephant and money orders. He explains the psychological tactics used in cybercrime, highlighting how delaying a victim can lead to their exhaustion and eventual silence. This segment reveals the mindset of a cybercriminal and the strategies that allow them to evade consequences.
"hey we've not done any business before i don't even know if i can trust you what i need you to do protect us both go down the u.s postal service get two money orders totaling fifteen hundred dollars s..."
The Victim's Dilemma
In this segment, Johnson discusses the reasons why victims of cybercrime often do not report incidents to law enforcement. He explores the feelings of embarrassment and confusion regarding jurisdiction that prevent victims from seeking help, illustrating the complexities of reporting cybercrimes.
"they eat it so it's a it's a mixture of like you're exhausted by the process so it's just easier to walk away and second almost like an embarrassment so there's there's a whole slew of reasons all rig..."
From Small Crimes to Big Schemes
Brett Johnson recounts his evolution in cybercrime, starting with identity theft and moving into selling pirated software and mod chips. He explains how these early ventures laid the groundwork for more sophisticated criminal activities, showcasing the entrepreneurial spirit within the cybercrime world.
"everything else um so i got away with that crime and did it under my own name at that point i kept going and got better at it started to understand how to hide identities things like that started sell..."
Innovation in Crime
Johnson reflects on the innovative mindset required for successful cybercrime, comparing it to the thinking of entrepreneurs like Elon Musk. He discusses the ethical implications of crossing legal boundaries and the necessity of understanding the damage caused to others in the pursuit of profit.
"into cable television boxes so you could watch all the pay-per-view which in turn led into programming satellite dss cards those 18-inch rca satellite systems pull the card out of it program it turns ..."
Trial and Error in Cybercrime
In this segment, Johnson describes his problem-solving approach in cybercrime as one of trial and error. He emphasizes the importance of learning from mistakes and adapting strategies, illustrating how this iterative process is crucial for success in the criminal underworld.
"justifying it but in terms of me sort of as an engineer that is some gutsy thinking that's how waz and steve jobs thought sure it that's that's innovation and maybe just think you're if you can intros..."
The Foundation of Cybercrime
Johnson introduces a key principle he taught on ShadowCrew: all crime should begin with identity theft. He explains the rationale behind this strategy and how it serves as a buffer for criminals, allowing them to operate under false identities and evade law enforcement.
"i'm committing these crimes under my name how do i solve that well one of the first principles that we started to teach on shadow crew is all crime should begin with identity theft that's one of the m..."
The Birth of a Criminal Network
Brett Johnson narrates the transition from Counterfeit Library to ShadowCrew, detailing how the emergence of new technologies and legal rulings created opportunities for cybercriminals. He highlights the formation of a community that capitalized on these changes, setting the stage for modern cybercrime.
"because identity thought can take so many forms right right so yes so shadow crew uh so what's so as we're you started with love started with love so now we're we're you know doing these schemes onlin..."
Building Trust in the Underworld
Johnson discusses the importance of trust among criminals, sharing his experiences with partners in the cybercrime world. He explains how establishing reliable relationships is crucial for success and how he navigated the challenges of working with others in illegal activities.
"it's like you don't even have to really ask they're like can we pay by yeah you can pay all day long by paypal and paypal had no clue what they were doing with security so it's like okay so they're se..."
The Quest for a Fake Identity
In this segment, Johnson recounts his search for a fake driver's license, detailing the risks and challenges he faced. He emphasizes the significance of having a credible identity in the world of cybercrime and how he eventually found a trustworthy source for obtaining one.
"library and counterfeit library only dealt with counterfeit degrees and certificates as all degree meal type stuff but they had a forum and no one was using the forum so i basically get on there and b..."
The Rise of Credit Card Fraud
Johnson explains how the introduction of new technologies and the rise of online marketplaces led to a boom in credit card fraud. He shares insights into the methods used by criminals to exploit these systems and the lucrative opportunities that emerged as a result.
"so but it is a kind of a strong first step in creating a fake identity very strong very strong so this so that was like gasco just on on the point he made that if you're going to be successful in this..."
The Mechanics of Cybercrime
Brett Johnson delves into the technical aspects of cybercrime, explaining how stolen credit card data is used in fraudulent transactions. He breaks down the process of creating counterfeit cards and the importance of understanding the underlying technology to succeed in this illicit trade.
"that means you have to trust those people so what happens with shadow crew all right so counterfeit library is the start all right counterfeit library transitions over to shadow crew right before that..."
The Evolution of Cybercrime Networks
In this segment, Johnson discusses the evolution of cybercrime networks, focusing on the emergence of new players and the changing landscape of online crime. He highlights the importance of adaptability and collaboration among criminals to stay ahead of law enforcement.
"message one day script shows up and he posts just on the general forum he posts hey i've got credit card data give me an address give me a burner phone number wait five business days order whatever yo..."
The Art of Credit Card Fraud
Brett Johnson discusses the lucrative world of credit card fraud, detailing how experienced fraudsters could earn $30,000 to $40,000 a month by purchasing stolen credit card data and reselling items like laptops. He explains the mechanics of using counterfeit cards and the importance of the magnetic stripe data, emphasizing the technical aspects of executing these fraudulent transactions.
"stolen credit card data back then a a fairly experienced fraudster could profit 30 to 40 000 a month okay just buying you know laptops what have you and cashing out you know put them on ebay for sale ..."
The Rise of the Dumps Market
Johnson elaborates on the underground market for 'dumps,' which are stolen credit card data tracks. He explains how fraudsters would create counterfeit cards using this data, allowing them to bypass security measures at retail locations. This segment highlights the technical sophistication of early cybercriminals and the methods they employed to exploit vulnerabilities in payment systems.
"dump and the reason that's sold is when you go into a shop you insert the card or you swipe the card the only information that's sent out for verification is the second data track all right that goes ..."
Ukrainian Hackers and the CVV1 Breach
In this segment, Johnson reveals how Ukrainian hackers discovered a significant vulnerability in banking systems, allowing them to exploit credit card data without proper encryption. He discusses the implications of this breach, which enabled fraudsters to withdraw cash from ATMs using stolen data, marking a turning point in the scale of cybercrime.
"he was reduced to selling things at the same time he's looking for how do i make more money all right the ukrainians happened upon this thing called the cvv1 breach or hack that's what it's what they ..."
The Evolution of Cybercrime Cash-Out Methods
Johnson explains how the methods for cashing out stolen funds evolved from traditional means like Western Union to more sophisticated methods involving prepaid cards and eventually cryptocurrencies. He discusses the challenges faced by cybercriminals in cashing out their earnings and how these methods became more complex over time.
"so it's a valid track too that doesn't matter so the pin is the thing that gets you in right so back then all right back then what we're talking about is you need to typically today you need a whole t..."
Law Enforcement's Response to Cybercrime
This segment covers the increasing attention from law enforcement agencies towards cybercriminal activities. Johnson shares anecdotes about how law enforcement began to track cybercriminals, including the use of IP addresses and the challenges they faced in identifying and apprehending suspects.
"used um started stealing a lot of money a lot and that got law enforcement attention so we started to see i mean this it's a crazy-ass story we started to see uh ips coming in from law enforcement age..."
Exploiting Public Databases for Fraud
Johnson discusses how he exploited public databases, such as the Indiana state sex offenders registry and the Texas driver's license database, to create fake identities and bank accounts. He highlights the ease with which he could access sensitive information and the implications for identity theft and fraud.
"had access to was the texas driver's license database and started using that to create fake driver's licenses what have you and then finally we happened upon the california death index all right compl..."
The Mechanics of Filing Fake Tax Returns
In this segment, Johnson reveals how he devised a scheme to file fake tax returns, allowing him to steal significant amounts of money. He explains the process of manipulating the IRS system to receive refunds before verification, showcasing the ingenuity and risks involved in his fraudulent activities.
"there's a lot of people probably a lot of people because that death benefit's only like 219 yeah okay nobody's thinking about that shit so i started to apply for social security benefits nope number's..."
The Logistics of Cashing Out
Johnson details the logistics of cashing out stolen funds, including the use of ATMs and the physical challenges of transporting large sums of cash. He shares insights into the operational side of cybercrime, emphasizing the need for careful planning and execution to avoid detection.
"that's changing ip that's uh changing address everything else will return every six minutes for three days a week fourth day i would take a road trip plot out a map of atms and then the next two days ..."
Learning to Launder Money
This segment focuses on Johnson's journey to learn how to launder money effectively. He discusses the importance of cash-based businesses and the strategies he employed to make illicit funds appear legitimate, highlighting the complexities of financial crime.
"go do a good uh run with david goggins with it nice i like it you know this is great so wait uh where does that come in with a backpack so what happens is i didn't know how to launder money all right ..."
The Dark Side of Cybercrime
Johnson reflects on the darker aspects of cybercrime, including the potential for violence and the moral dilemmas faced by criminals. He shares a chilling story about a fellow fraudster who resorted to violence, marking a significant shift in the culture of cybercrime and the risks involved.
"money that needs to be moved to other people uh so how does that work what's what's the business your service and you're giving them money right so you you do the ozark thing if you want to do that so..."
The Emergence of Violence in Cybercrime
In this segment, Johnson discusses how violence began to infiltrate the cybercrime world, particularly through the actions of individuals like 'script.' He recounts a specific incident where a member of the community resorted to torture, illustrating the dangerous evolution of criminal behavior in the digital age.
"come into play here where he uh had someone who owed him money kidnapped and tortured so when does it turn darker it turns darker when the more the the more money you make script was a kid that he was..."
The Descent into Darkness
Johnson contemplates the psychological effects of engaging in cybercrime and the gradual desensitization to violence. He reflects on how the lure of money can lead individuals to cross moral lines, drawing parallels to other notorious figures in the cybercrime landscape.
"point that's when things got you start realizing things are getting a little serious how does that make you feel the first response is can't be real he's he's just that's he's just doing that you know..."
ShadowCrew's Legacy in the Darknet
In the concluding segment, Johnson discusses the legacy of ShadowCrew and its role in shaping the modern darknet. He explains how the community established trust among criminals and laid the groundwork for today's illicit online markets, emphasizing the ongoing impact of their actions on the cybercrime landscape.
"that online aspect with those communities like that if you're the head guy you really feel like you're the parent of these guys yeah so somebody's starting to threaten them it's like all right what do..."
The Evolution of the Dark Net
In this segment, Johnson discusses the transition from ShadowCrew to the modern dark net and its markets. He highlights how the introduction of cryptocurrency and the Tor browser revolutionized online criminal activities, allowing for greater anonymity and the rise of platforms like Silk Road. This evolution marks a significant shift in the landscape of cybercrime.
"important remember those three necessities that i talked about but the important thing is is it established trust among criminals all right because that's a necessity you have to be able to trust who ..."
Silk Road: Ideology vs. Cash in Cybercrime
Johnson contrasts the motivations of cybercriminals, focusing on Ross Ulbricht's ideology behind Silk Road compared to cash-driven criminals. He discusses how Ulbricht believed he could change the world through his platform, illustrating the complexities of motivation in the cybercrime world. This segment delves into the philosophical underpinnings of illegal online marketplaces.
"today all right so when that that was the way things were until a couple of things happen and one was cryptocurrency the other one was the tour browser the dark web now i was working with the secret s..."
The Rise and Fall of ShadowCrew
Brett Johnson recounts the operational dynamics of ShadowCrew, detailing the rise of key figures and the eventual downfall due to law enforcement crackdowns. He shares anecdotes about the internal challenges and the eventual arrests that dismantled the organization, providing insight into the precarious nature of cybercrime networks.
"thing all right so along the same time we get well a few years later we get satoshi nakamoto pops up with his ideas for bitcoin and then ross ullbrick runs with it ross albert decides he's going to st..."
The Arrests and Aftermath of ShadowCrew
In this segment, Johnson narrates the dramatic events leading to the arrests of ShadowCrew members, including his own experiences and the chaos that ensued. He reflects on the implications of these arrests for the cybercrime community and the lessons learned from his time in the criminal underworld. This segment serves as a cautionary tale about the risks of cybercrime.
"albert gonzalez this kid's name we had we were growing so big that i had to start farming things out so the first thing i started farming i i instituted this review system kind of establishing that tr..."
The Cost of Cybercrime
In this segment, Johnson discusses the personal toll of engaging in cybercrime, emphasizing the lies and deceit that erode personal relationships. He shares his experiences of isolation and the impact of his actions on victims, illustrating the moral decay that accompanies a life of crime.
"i was in charleston south carolina when i saw it happen and i'm like [Laughter] you're you're you're the one that got away i'm the one public there were a couple other guys that got away that they did..."
The Addiction of Crime
Johnson explains how cybercrime can become an addiction, similar to substance abuse. He discusses the mindset of a criminal and the inability to form genuine connections, revealing the psychological struggles faced by those entrenched in illegal activities.
"well why is that so i don't want to say that's because you're going to be arrested because honestly very few people are arrested all right but it doesn't end well because of the type of person that th..."
The Tragic Outcomes
Reflecting on the tragic outcomes of cybercrime, Johnson shares stories of individuals who faced dire consequences, including suicide and violent retribution. He emphasizes the harsh realities of a life spent in crime and the emotional scars it leaves behind.
"i lied to them the entire time you become that individual i don't think a lot of people really understand how bad that is you know you talked about you pointed out that woman that i ripped off she was..."
Finding Love Amidst Chaos
Johnson recounts his tumultuous love story with a stripper, detailing how their relationship developed amidst his criminal lifestyle. He shares the challenges they faced, including trust issues and the impact of addiction on their bond.
"the addiction comes first all right and you know you pointed out some of those truly despicable things script for example tortures that guy you get to the point where it's like okay this is the busine..."
The Struggles of Intimacy
In this segment, Johnson discusses the struggles of intimacy in his relationship, highlighting how addiction affected their connection. He reflects on the emotional turmoil and the lengths he went to in order to support his partner while grappling with his own issues.
"partners with albert he's arrested with albert law enforcement they were going on they were going to blame him he was the only competent individual so this kid gets up one day he wasn't in prison yet ..."
The Illusion of Control
Johnson shares his misguided belief that he could control the situation by showering his partner with gifts and affection. He discusses the false sense of security this created and the eventual realization that love cannot be bought.
"you're okay with that my god man it got to the point i had one guy ripped off it's like for nine hundred dollars is when i first started the cyber crime stuff that's when i was becoming competent and ..."
The Breaking Point
As Johnson's relationship deteriorates, he reaches a breaking point when he discovers his partner's drug use and potential prostitution. He reflects on the heart-wrenching moment he realized he could no longer support her lifestyle.
"can i actually backtrack i listen i love love okay and there's a story uh that you fell in love with the stripper i mean you you have to tell the story so how did you fall in love um with somebody not..."
A Desperate Decision
In a moment of desperation, Johnson confronts his partner about her drug use and sets an ultimatum. He shares the emotional weight of this decision and the hope that it would lead to a positive change in their lives.
"up the wardrobe got a suitcase out started putting her clothes in it and she wakes up she's like where are you going i'm like i'm not you are well my my bravado disappeared pretty quickly i uh took ab..."
The Cost of Love
Johnson discusses the sacrifices he made for love, including financial strain and emotional turmoil. He reflects on the lengths he went to in order to keep his partner from returning to her destructive habits.
"i'd never done drugs anything else like that because my mom was an addict as well so i i was this guy i always wanted to be in control didn't want to you know lose control of myself and had never been..."
The Illusion of Wealth
As Johnson navigates his relationship, he grapples with the illusion of wealth and the reality of his criminal activities. He shares how he used counterfeit checks to maintain the facade of financial stability while facing increasing pressure.
"so i leave she you guys just talked and just talked and there's no damn feeling of love and all of that yeah so just talk just you know got along pretty good i'm like i like her i like her so come bac..."
The Final Straw
In this poignant segment, Johnson recounts the moment he realized his partner's struggles were beyond his control. He reflects on the emotional devastation of their relationship and the impact of addiction on their lives.
"got along really well really well so i ended up moving her in with me she hadn't quit her job and uh what was happening was she's working weekends and uh you know the club would close at three or four..."
The Illusion of Wealth
Brett Johnson shares the struggles of maintaining a facade of wealth while engaging in fraudulent activities. He reflects on his relationship with a woman who believed he was financially secure, highlighting the emotional turmoil and deception involved in his life as a cybercriminal. This segment delves into the complexities of love, intimacy, and the lengths he went to uphold a false image.
"who to trust online i'm left with running counterfeit cashiers checks to get money in trying to make it until you know i can start back with some other fraud and uh lying to her the entire time she kn..."
The Engagement Ring Scheme
In a desperate attempt to impress his fiancée, Brett Johnson recounts how he resorted to running counterfeit cashier's checks to purchase an expensive Tiffany engagement ring. This segment illustrates the lengths he went to maintain his relationship while simultaneously engaging in illegal activities, culminating in his arrest just weeks before their wedding.
"i was like oh let's get married she's like well i've always wanted a tiffany ring shit i didn't have money to buy the tiffany ring because all my money was overseas so here i am i've defraud says coun..."
The Arrest and Its Aftermath
Brett Johnson describes the dramatic events surrounding his arrest in Charleston, South Carolina. He details the overwhelming presence of law enforcement and the emotional impact on his fiancée, who was left in shock and confusion. This segment captures the chaos of his arrest and the immediate consequences that followed.
"something like that of course i wanted to call her you know and uh the fbi got me it turns out it was it was controlled delivery there were like 30 agents in the parking lot fbi got me charleston pd g..."
Facing the Consequences
After being arrested, Brett Johnson reflects on his time in jail and the emotional strain it placed on his relationship. He discusses the limited contact he had with his fiancée and the realization of the damage caused by his actions. This segment highlights the personal toll of his criminal lifestyle and the challenges of maintaining relationships under such circumstances.
"they throw me in a cell meanwhile more charges keep coming in you know and uh it's like 10 12 charges a day at that point and i'm trying to call her to make sure she's all right and uh just get throug..."
Manipulating the System
Brett Johnson shares how he attempted to manipulate the legal system while working with the Secret Service. He recounts his experiences of breaking the law from within their offices and the eventual fallout from his actions. This segment reveals the complexities of his dual life as a consultant for law enforcement while still engaging in criminal activities.
"police charleston county jail me and a secret service agent standing there and elizabeth had a friend that owned a limo company so she pulls up in a limo gets out pops the trunk gets these two plastic..."
The Downfall of a Relationship
In this segment, Brett Johnson discusses the deterioration of his relationship with Elizabeth as he continued to engage in illegal activities. He reflects on the emotional impact of his choices and the eventual breakup, emphasizing the consequences of his deceit and the strain it placed on their love.
"and she's like okay and so we moved from from charleston the field office is in columbia south carolina and uh i'm breaking the law even before i start working with them i'm breaking the law and so th..."
The Final Straw
Brett recounts a pivotal moment in his relationship when Elizabeth suggested he engage in infidelity, marking a turning point in their connection. This segment captures the emotional fallout of their relationship and Brett's decision to move on, illustrating the complexities of love and betrayal in his life as a cybercriminal.
"completely fell apart do you have an understanding of why it's just because of the her heart got broken because there was lying it was the truth like she did a lot yeah to uh sacrifice for the liver y..."
The Breaking Point
As Brett Johnson navigates the aftermath of his breakup, he reflects on the financial pressures he faced while continuing his criminal activities. This segment highlights the challenges of maintaining a criminal lifestyle and the eventual realization that he could no longer support Elizabeth, leading to a final confrontation.
"she knew something was going on and uh she looks at me one day and she's like why don't you just tell me that it's over and i looked at her i said it's over we're done and i told her i was like look i..."
On the Run
Brett Johnson shares his experiences of being on the run after his legal troubles escalated. He details how he continued to engage in cybercrime while evading law enforcement, illustrating the thrill and danger of his lifestyle. This segment encapsulates the chaotic life of a fugitive and the lengths he went to in order to survive.
"right there what happens is as i was breaking law from inside the offices i had a buddy that his name was shawn mims out of los angeles i had taught him how to do tax return fraud i told sean i go mis..."
The High Stakes of Cybercrime
Brett describes his foray into cybercrime, including stealing prepaid debit cards and making significant profits. His ambition to escape to Brazil and continue his criminal enterprise illustrates the allure and risks of a life of crime.
"driving west on i-20 no idea where to go to anything else got to dallas there was a prepaid debit card supplier in dallas went in walked in the office convinced the guy social engineering convinced th..."
The Most Wanted List
Brett Johnson reflects on the moment he discovered he was listed as one of the US's Most Wanted criminals. His reaction and the surreal nature of the situation reveal the gravity of his actions and the attention they garnered.
"so i sit there looking at it and i was like said it out loud i was like well mr johnson you've made the united states most wanted list what do you do now and i was like i'm going to disney world liter..."
Living Large on the Run
After being placed on the Most Wanted list, Brett shares how he indulged in a lavish lifestyle, including frequent visits to theme parks and extravagant purchases. This segment highlights the juxtaposition of his criminal life and the temporary pleasures it afforded him.
"paid paid for a time share they were building these new time shares right off universal drive building these brand new time shares paid for a time share nine months cash yeah i was like we take cash y..."
The Arrest
Brett narrates the day of his arrest, detailing the unexpected visit from law enforcement and the ensuing chaos. His nonchalant attitude during the encounter underscores the tension and unpredictability of his criminal lifestyle.
"walking down the hall is bobby kirby another south carolina guy and a uh orlando orange county cop and uh they turn around they're like hey brett i'm like hey bobby how are you and it's like we're goo..."
Manipulating the System
In this segment, Brett discusses how he attempted to manipulate the legal system by feigning addiction issues to secure a better outcome during sentencing. His strategic thinking reveals the lengths he was willing to go to in order to gain an advantage.
"physically and everything i get to uh columbia south carolina now while i was at orange county what happens is this inmate because we were in federal holding this inmate he looks at me his name was ye..."
The Sentencing Experience
Brett describes the courtroom atmosphere during his sentencing, including the prosecutor's accusations and the judge's decisions. This moment encapsulates the culmination of his criminal activities and the reality of facing the consequences.
"i can't get an erection and he looks at me and i'm looking at him like because i had gotten that shit from boogie nights so i'm like and finally i'm like is that right and he was like it could happen ..."
Life in Solitary Confinement
Brett shares his harrowing experience of spending eight months in solitary confinement. He reflects on the psychological challenges and the coping mechanisms he developed during this isolating period.
"so i looked at my lawyer and i was like can you get the drug program for me he's like i don't know i'll ask so he stands up your honor will you order the drug program for mr johnson the judge says no ..."
Transitioning to Real Prison
After solitary confinement, Brett discusses his transition to a federal prison and the stark differences he encountered. His insights into prison dynamics reveal the harsh realities of incarceration.
"work in the national forest and i'm like no i'll die out there he was like well you could do landscaping i'm like i can run a weed eater two days later i walk into the landscaping office and the cop t..."
Facing the Aryan Brotherhood
Brett recounts his first encounter with the Aryan Brotherhood in prison, highlighting the misconceptions and dangers associated with being labeled a computer criminal. This segment illustrates the complexities of prison culture and survival.
"you think you can teach somebody how to do that and i'm like so what i used to say and again that it's this i it's this thing of you know really coming to terms with things what i used to say was is i..."
The Reality of Prison Life
In this segment, Brett discusses the harsh realities of prison life, including the social hierarchies and the importance of reputation. His experiences shed light on the challenges faced by inmates and the constant threat of violence.
"money he had to his name he had four thousand dollars cash so i manipulated him and given me that and to drop me off a change of clothes a cell phone and a driver's license the only driver's license h..."
First Impressions in Prison
Brett Johnson recounts his initial encounter with members of the Aryan Brotherhood upon entering prison. He shares the misunderstanding that arises from his admission of being in prison for 'computer crime,' which is misinterpreted as child pornography, leading to a tense situation. This segment highlights the harsh realities and misconceptions within the prison system.
"at the door by a guy named nick sandofer he's the treasurer of the aryan brotherhood and uh first question out of his mouth is any more white guys come in and shit i didn't know i was like i don't kno..."
The Danger of Being a Snitch
In this segment, Brett discusses the implications of being labeled a 'snitch' after an article in Wired magazine identifies him as a Secret Service informant. He describes the immediate danger he faces from other inmates and the protective measures taken by prison authorities to ensure his safety, illustrating the brutal social dynamics of prison life.
"yeah yeah and what you see and that's one thing you find out that the guys that are going in there for child porn they will tell them it's credit card theft so yeah right they've learned so i'm that g..."
Navigating Prison Hierarchies
Brett explains the unwritten rules and hierarchies within the prison system, particularly regarding inmates charged with crimes against children. He shares his role in advising other inmates on how to survive and avoid conflict, emphasizing the importance of trust and the consequences of breaking prison codes.
"been talking to kevin poulsen over at wired magazine about max butler he does an article about that shows up in wired magazine so at the end of the first month wired magazine hits compound front cover..."
Surviving Riots and Violence
In this gripping segment, Brett recounts his experiences during prison riots and the violence that ensues. He describes the fear and chaos of these events, as well as the racial dynamics that often fuel such conflicts, providing a raw look at life behind bars.
"so they do a locker search try to confiscate the magazines they can't the next day i walk into the unit there's nick sanders laying on his bunk magazine wide open reading it i'm like oh shit walked up..."
The Code of Conduct in Prison
Brett discusses the strict code of conduct that governs inmate interactions, particularly regarding loyalty and the consequences of betrayal. He shares insights into the psychological landscape of prison life, where survival often hinges on understanding and adhering to these unspoken rules.
"and my other job i had two jobs with them the other job you get to the point it's weird man you get to the point people walking off the bus you know immediately two groups of people you know who the b..."
Witnessing Death and Despair
Brett reflects on the traumatic experiences of witnessing murders and suicides during his time in prison. He paints a vivid picture of the despair that permeates the environment, highlighting the psychological toll of incarceration and the fragility of life within the prison system.
"so that's that's the way that works at that point and everybody quickly learns this quickly quickly and uh so typically the guys would say i just want to do my own time that would be the line and it's..."
The Network of Trust in Crime
In this segment, Brett draws parallels between the cybercrime community and the prison system, emphasizing the importance of trust in both environments. He discusses how relationships and alliances are formed and maintained, revealing the complexities of criminal networks.
"they shut the compound down and this is what happens so you shut the entire compound down they make two lines of the inmates and what happens is inmate walks into a room they shut the door behind the ..."
Coping with Riots and Fear
Brett shares his evolving perspective on prison riots, detailing how his fear transformed into a more analytical understanding of the motivations behind such events. He describes the psychological adaptation required to navigate the chaos and maintain a sense of safety.
"the day the riots that i went through the uh the first riot man you're scared to death scared to death you know you've got the cops dressed up in the ninja turtle outfits you've got the uh the rubber ..."
Transformative Experiences in Prison
Brett discusses the pivotal moments that led to his transformation during incarceration, including the impact of cognitive behavioral therapy and the loss of familial relationships. He reflects on how these experiences shaped his understanding of responsibility and personal growth.
"half five and a half you made it out made it out i went through uh the the i told you it was a good lie that i told i went through the residential drug abuse program it's a nine month intensive therap..."
Life After Prison: Struggles and Redemption
In this segment, Brett opens up about the challenges he faced reintegrating into society after prison, including the difficulty of finding employment and the stigma of his past. He shares his journey towards redemption and the support he received from loved ones, illustrating the complexities of rebuilding a life after incarceration.
"ever happen it truly is that part what what is it what was the thing that changed you as a man is it the solitary confinement was it the years was it losing uh the the people you loved or was it that ..."
Desperation Leads to Crime
Brett candidly discusses the desperation that drove him back to crime after his release from prison. He shares the circumstances that led him to make poor choices, including shoplifting, and the internal struggle of wanting to provide for his loved ones while battling his criminal past.
"couldn't touch a computer i had a job offer from uh deloitte to run a cyber crime office in the uk which that was a no no you're not moving and that's a computer idiot so yeah then had a job offer fro..."
Finding Love and New Beginnings
Brett recounts how he met his wife during a difficult period in his life. He shares the significance of their relationship in his journey towards stability and redemption, highlighting the role of love and support in overcoming past mistakes and building a future.
"so about the same time i had a friend that uh this guy i i've been dating the same type of women i had been dating you know these yeah you know the unhealthy ones the hot unhealthy ones yes love yeah ..."
The Road to Redemption
In this concluding segment, Brett reflects on his journey from a notorious cybercriminal to a man seeking redemption. He discusses the importance of hard work, personal responsibility, and the support of others in his transformation, offering insights into the possibility of change and growth.
"like all right so my job was to push a lawnmower 10 hours a day five days a week for 400 a week and busted my ass i i hit it so hard i would uh i'd come in of a night and pass out wake up the next mor..."
Descent into Cybercrime
In this segment, Brett discusses how desperation led him to the dark web, where he began ordering food and stealing clothes using stolen credit cards. He reflects on the moment he was arrested for a food order, revealing the impact of his actions on his family and the emotional turmoil he faced during his sentencing.
"a guy was offering to pay me 1500 a week doing the sales for uh oil rig training was what it was and i accepted the job i quit working for dustin and the guy um i told him before he even offered me th..."
A Second Chance: The Power of Support
Brett recounts his experience during sentencing, where his partner Michelle stood up for him, highlighting his role as a father. This segment emphasizes the importance of support systems in rehabilitation and how Brett's probation officer advocated for a lighter sentence, allowing him to return to his family sooner.
"police station i've been arrested and uh she shows up and uh she didn't know i've been doing that my probation officer of course he didn't know or anything else at my sentencing for that probation off..."
Rebuilding Trust and Finding Purpose
After serving time, Brett reflects on how he rebuilt his life and established trust within the cybersecurity community. He shares how reaching out to an FBI agent led to opportunities in consulting and speaking, marking his transformation from a criminal to a contributor in the fight against cybercrime.
"so i can touch a computer and they tell you they tell you they were like you know inmates a felon if nothing else he can sell cars well it turns out you can't you can sell cars if you're a drug dealer..."
Understanding Cybercrime: A Collective Effort
Brett discusses the collaborative nature of cybercrime, emphasizing that criminals often work together and share information, unlike many companies. He stresses the need for organizations to understand this dynamic and to address known vulnerabilities to better defend against cyber threats.
"i was all right from that point so now you're helping in many ways fight the very guy that you used to be so big picture advice what given that you were that guy how do we fight cyber crime today and ..."
The Importance of Education in Cybersecurity
In this segment, Brett highlights the critical role of education in combating cybercrime. He discusses the necessity for companies to report incidents and raise awareness, as well as the importance of understanding one's position in the cybercrime spectrum to design effective security measures.
"like like criminals do criminals do that um you have to appreciate that you have to understand that that big statistic that ninety percent of your tax use known exploits it's not the stuff we don't kn..."
The Role of White Hat Hackers
Brett shares his views on white hat hacking and penetration testing, acknowledging their value while also cautioning against over-reliance on them. He emphasizes the need for a realistic understanding of cybersecurity and the importance of diverse tools and strategies to protect against cyber threats.
"uh people absolutely so it's the social side it's constantly because there's so many probably attack vectors oh this is the software that you have if you look at it that's that attack surface you can'..."
Identity Verification and Privacy Concerns
Brett discusses the controversial practices of identity verification companies like ID.me, particularly in relation to government services. He raises concerns about privacy and the implications of citizens being forced to share personal information for access to essential services.
"authenticate yourself as a human being by uh using fake your face or something like that so private information they've got a they've got a tiered system with verification they've got you can do uh th..."
Living in the Shadows: The Threat of Violence
Brett reflects on the evolution of cybercrime and the increasing violence associated with it, particularly from organized crime groups. He shares his perspective on the dangers of the cyber underworld and how it has changed since his involvement.
"is so having lived a life of crime for many years i'm sure you've connected indirectly to a large number of very dangerous people directly and directly yeah but the network indirectly is is even large..."
Hope for Humanity: Lessons from Adversity
In this closing segment, Brett discusses the importance of human connection and resilience in the face of adversity. He shares his hope for the future, emphasizing the need for collaboration and understanding to overcome challenges and build a better society.
"could be really proud of what would you say biggest lesson i've learned um you you want your life to be one where you're helping people and not hurting people and uh that that really hit me the first ..."
The News Cycle Trap
In this segment, Johnson shares his experience with the news and how it can fuel anger and division. He recounts a lesson learned from his partner about the benefits of avoiding sensational news, advocating for a historical perspective on current events instead of getting caught up in daily outrage.
"i wake up in the morning and i watch fox news and cnn so i can be pissed off at everyone all right so the division the outrage they're really feeding they want you they want you to be angry yeah that'..."
The Importance of Love
Brett Johnson reflects on the significance of love in human life, acknowledging its power to drive both positive and negative actions. He emphasizes that love and connection are fundamental to our humanity, encouraging a deeper understanding of these emotions in the context of personal growth and relationships.
"on take on modern times you know how will this time be written about in the history books yeah and react to that don't the uh the daily ups and downs of the outrages um which is getting worse and wors..."
Finding Meaning in Life
Johnson tackles the profound question of life's meaning, suggesting that it revolves around helping one another. He shares his personal journey of transformation, expressing no regrets about his past actions, as they have shaped who he is today and led him to his current purpose.
"this big ridiculous question why the hell what are we all here for i don't think it is ridiculous man i i to me that meaning life is finding out that lesson that we need to help each other if you you ..."
Launching the Brett Johnson Show
Brett Johnson announces his upcoming podcast, 'The Brett Johnson Show,' where he plans to discuss cybercrime, security, and personal stories of transformation. He expresses his desire to make a difference and engage with listeners on important topics while also sharing his candid thoughts.
"weird thing it's true yeah also you mentioned that you're uh you're thinking of launching a show what's it gonna be called because you've done it uh you've done a couple of podcasts you're incredibly ..."
A Conversation of Honesty
In the closing moments of the podcast, Lex Fridman praises Brett Johnson for his authenticity and public speaking skills. Johnson's journey from cybercriminal to advocate is highlighted, along with a poignant quote from George R.R. Martin, emphasizing the complexity of good and bad actions in life.
"i'm going to subscribe you should too uh you're launching it soon soon next week uh brett you're an incredible human being the the honesty the the the love i could just see how much of yourself you pu..."