"they're like jim don't use jargon we're trying to appeal to everyone good luck there's a couple of quants you kidding me come on [Music] hi i'm jim o'shaughnessy and welcome to infinite loops sometime..."

"this episode of infinite loops jim o'shaughnessy is chairman and co-chief investment officer of o'shaughnessy asset management where jamie catherwood is an associate all opinions expressed by jim jami..."

"it's great to be here jim a little reluctant to be here but it's great to be here okay no okay so that's my first question why why are you reluctant to be here you know i mean jim it's a it's that old..."

"a lot of time and energy spent all day long like what does everyone talk about all day long is how to allocate your assets right and we have an infinite it's like the grocery aisle of cereal like an i..."

"uh of required reading per year but if you look at their portfolio and it is extremely different than what most institutions look like now some institutions have quote copied this yale model over the ..."

"actually replicate yale uh based on basic factor-based exposures you know speaking your language here um and a little bit of leverage right some of these some of these are leveraged some of the assets..."

"well yeah no i was brought up under the pp model which is parents pay so i can't be done in my kids uh and and so i wrote that in i think 1994 and back then nobody knew what a quant was nobody knew i ..."

"day totally agree and you know that that was one of the first things i thought about back then was um man this could be a pretty amazing product uh but you know i was i i was a little ahead of the tec..."

"the 200-day moving average uh but we used in the paper the 10-month moving average lip simplest uh quant strategy in the world either you're invested when above the price is above the average uh you'r..."

"know and so um the old turtles of uh trend following lore eckhart and dennis many moons ago you know they were like uh teaching traders these trend following rules a long time ago and and they said yo..."

"basis points oh and note from one of my new colleagues i'm getting this staff of young guys and women and like they're like jim don't use jargon we're trying to appeal to everyone good luck there's a ..."

"thought yeah yeah yeah but but the the idea like so i think you know when you're a veteran of this stuff like you and i are and i'm much older veteran than you it's just like you can screen you we cou..."

"take for many but but the bigger challenge i think for many is the compliance and you know we i like doing polls on twitter kind of like you like gifs so meb is the poles as jim is the gifts and i do ..."

"stuff over and over and over again um and so you know it's funny you and i can probably spend hours and hours talking about like the final 10 of investing debates and ideas and strategies but this ver..."

"more homework but again it's like much of life right woody allen uh what 80 of success is just showing up you know it's pretty true 80 90 of what we do right and we're crazy because we're obsessed and..."

"the poll is gonna be like trying to demonstrate a lesson but the answer was over 60 percent right obviously it was during the great depression when stocks lost well over 60 percent but i mean over 80 ..."

"when it happens you're like well okay now i gotta deal with it but um but also that's one of the challenges of buying hold you know i think um as a great portfolio the difficulty for many of of buying..."

"and there's nothing they like more than uh than the opposite side which i think we'd see time and time again in our world we definitely do and uh you're also right about humility uh wasn't it um where..."

"what do you learn from these trades you make a ton of money on usually nothing it's the scars you and i could take off our shirts we're not going to do it youtube uh we take off for sure we got scars ..."

"there's going to be you and i arm wrestling overseas it's got to be because like as i'm preparing for this i'm going through the stuff i'm like i don't like we should have just crossed all this i wou..."

"figure out something listen okay we'll find something to fight about but the the other thing i mean like i've had that conversation you just went through um you know not a million times i'm exaggerati..."

"that and if you don't understand that the market not you the market is always right and the market's going to pound your ass and you know i always say that a career in active management is like a sine..."

"the way you do that because i used to do that too when i wrote what works like most of the money came in over the transit literally again couldn't happen now because back then when the first edition c..."

"you want to avoid that strategy and you want to see and these are like live strategies that work but are underperforming so yeah because you kind of want to avoid it currently and you want to go to so..."

"for the past five years so it's a it was a factor based value and momentum strategy basic stuff you know could write it down in five minutes on a napkin you and i but it also would hedge the portfolio..."

"inquiries and i'm like you're asking me now come on guys like i like let's talk about it when it was really sucking it up not now like you know that come on man so i'm just gonna do that every year ju..."

"or when they were down 60 to 80 to 90 percent and then we expanded it to sectors and industries you had to expand the length of time because obviously if you're looking at a tiny industry it's going t..."

"technically overrode a model that's right it's basically well that's another kind of belief i've always had um and so it's just part of osam's culture right is like i you don't have to talk to clients..."

"and then same thing with like angel investing like you talk about it and no one thinks about in terms of their actual portfolio they're like well my s p this year was driven all by these five stocks a..."

"yeah happens man yeah speaking of happening jim we can't do podcasts anymore because every day every 100 of the time you and i do a podcast the market goes down four percent five percent from my tech..."

"and so uh and so you think about investing and someone was tweeting about this the other day and i think buffett really gets this he's really a great example of it and there's nothing that makes peopl..."

"and it's expensive to live here i love it i think it's worth it but my goodness if you make a lot of money you pay a lot in taxes and so dividends you have to pay taxes every year so theoretically a w..."

"i understand this but um but the reality is like it's hard if not impossible to argue with the data and so um this concept is like our least downloaded paper i think uh we wrote one in the during the ..."

"but i got to think of a better marketing phrase low no yielder is probably not the right uh we we have a constant back and forth the sec over our naming we've had a number of challenges coming up with..."

"and i think that i think the the thing that you guys did in this paper that was so clear uh was that you basically showed in in particular levels of buybacks so the ceos that were buying back a lot ve..."

"every day a day doesn't go by where we don't get uh trolled we've actually started compiling uh i haven't i haven't uh mentioned this um but for the past decade i told my team i say you know we've had..."

"entrepreneurs out there because like it it's you know being an entrepreneur and you've been through this many times um you know it's like the hardest job on the planet and our favorite phrase there is..."

"we had four no load mutual funds uh my first company oceano c capital management and we sold them to a company called hennessey and the reason we sold them was because i just found the ad cam we were ..."

"but you know it it is what it is you gotta you gotta have a a good sense of humor about it but jim i need some netfolio gear you gotta like you gotta if you dig in find a little t-shirt i'm a large no..."

"um the the funeral companies uh healthcare companies etc that thing i mean and you know go out and try and market that and and so you know everyone that's horrible that's awful how could you be so cru..."

"deal that we were trying to figure out was like we had this whole sort of series of things that like really looked great and then like you just said coming up with a name and a marketing strategy it's..."

"impossible to get to the end and think you know what i should have all my money in one stock market and so i did a post the other day where i said you know here's my top five investing mistakes one is..."

"the broad u.s stock market's expense so it's it's a is it dumb usually yes it's dumb usually you put all your money in one country reams of research on that is it dumb particularly right now absolutel..."

"is absolutely insane i don't care if it's greece i don't care if it's brazil i don't care if it's argentina or the us and it's the normally it's the least bad offense in the u.s because you're 60 of t..."

"tokyo vice on netflix great show but it reminds me of this was a different country 40 years ago in japan right like that was the biggest market gap country in the world and the biggest bubble we've ev..."

"right like we did a post where we blinded multiples in value versus bullish bear sentiment and they move in very similar movements over time and my favorite example ai highest bullish sentiment ever w..."

"do what i say versus do what i do so everyone is super bearish right now your stock market's only down like mid teens right or low teens and usually you don't see that until you're really down the 20 ..."

"stated preferences over the last 15 years have become more and more falsified people have been gotten used to simply lying about how they feel and you know there's a lot of reasons for that right that..."

"they tend to be much more kind of conservative so that one puzzles me still the uh double a double i american association of individual investors uh but i do think that the answer to the bearishness t..."

"prefer the actual numbers yeah but that's an interesting question actually there's a great quote i think it's ned davis um where he says like price is unique in that it's indicator that can't diverge ..."

"they absolutely don't want to right no they they they they could do these five things and become vanguard 2.0 in no way will they ever do these uh you know so i'm uh i don't think history is going to ..."

"ticker at some point but uh it's that's a great ticker i love to do this yeah that's fantastic well listen man this has been so much fun um we should uh we should promise this is just our one of six l..."

"of the world which a lot of people like um and a lot of people really dislike and guess which group i like better um but you can't kill anybody you can't put anybody in re-education camps what you can..."

"and ideas um and i'm gonna tell you one quick story and then give you my answer um but growing up i got a little colorado little north carolina background in me but but love the fish and fly fish and ..."

"you you don't get exposure to but there was a phrase um and this goes back to one of the old dalai lama books and um you know he was talking about uh you know a mantra or idea and and i am not there o..."

"health problem and i haven't told anybody you know i've been dealing with um you know some of my companies just stole all the money you know on and on like all these like things that are going on in t..."