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Marc & Ben on the Collapse of Traditional Media - Podcasts, Politics & the New Media Playbook
22 segments available
On this episode of The Ben & Marc Show, a16z cofounders Marc Andreessen and Ben Horowitz sit down with Erik Torenberg— General Partner at a16z and founder of the media company Turpentine—to unpack how the internet shattered the old media order and reshaped the way power works in America. What begins as a look at the evolution of media quickly becomes something bigger: a conversation about truth, trust, and the collapse of institutional authority. They explore how social media became both an x-ray and an engine, why authenticity now beats polish, and how the rules of politics, and journalism, have permanently changed. Together, they break down: - Why 2017 marked a structural break between tech and the press - The tension between objectivity, activism, and “speaking truth to power” - Why podcasters. not pundits, are setting the agenda - How the barbell strategy is reshaping media: short-form virality meets long-form depth With stops at Watergate, the rise of Rogan, the fall of legacy gatekeepers, and the media playbooks behind Obama, Trump, and the Kardashians—this episode explores how we got here, what’s next, and what it means for founders, voters, and anyone trying to build (or tell) a story. Timecodes: 00:00 Introduction 00:40 The Evolution of Media: From Centralization to Disruption 02:33 The Internet’s Impact on Legacy Media 09:32 Activism in the Modern Tech Press 12:30 The Rise and Fall of Institutional Trust 15:07 Recognizing the Shift in Legacy Media 20:51 Journalism: Objectivity vs. Activism 25:08 Martin Gurri and the Collapse of Authority 28:30 The Trump Era and the Media Paradigm Shift 32:23 Decentralization: From Talk Radio to Social Media 37:04 Is Social Media an Engine or a Camera? 43:50 Ben’s Early Perspective on Media and Politics 49:49 Trump as a Bridge Between Legacy and Social Media 55:44 Media Training vs. Unfiltered Authenticity 57:57 Reality TV, Professional Wrestling, and the New Playbook 1:01:04 Drama, Partisanship, and the Age of Personality 1:03:13 How Cable News Became 24/7 Entertainment 1:09:27 The UFC’s Early Struggles for Media Access 1:14:44 The Barbell Effect: Short Clips vs. Long-Form Podcasts 1:29:30 The Tools of Subversion When Out of Power 1:32:00 Media Strategy for Founders 1:37:16 The Power of Going Direct: Founders, Brands, and Audiences Listen to Us! Apple: https://bit.ly/3SdsfNt Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3SclPOr Resources: Marc on X: https://x.com/pmarca Marc’s Substack: https://pmarca.substack.com/ Ben on X: https://x.com/bhorowitz Erik on X: https://x.com/eriktorenberg Erik's Substack: https://eriktorenberg.substack.com/ Stay Updated: Find us on X: https://x.com/a16z Find us on LinkedIn: / a16z This information is for general educational purposes only and is not a recommendation to buy, hold, or sell any investment or financial product. Turpentine is an acquisition of a16z Holdings, L.L.C., and is not a bank, investment adviser, or broker-dealer. Individuals and companies featured during this podcast are not endorsing AH Capital or any of its affiliates (including, but not limited to, a16z Perennial Management L.P.). Any investments or portfolio companies mentioned, referred to, or described in this podcast are not representative of all a16z investments and there can be no assurance that the investments will be profitable or that other investments made in the future will have similar characteristics or results. A list of investments made by a16z is available at https://a16z.com/investment-list/. All investments involve risk, including the possible loss of capital. Past performance is no guarantee of future results and the opinions presented cannot be viewed as an indicator of future performance. Before making decisions with legal, tax, or accounting effects, you should consult appropriate professionals. Information is from sources deemed reliable on the date of publication, but a16z does not guarantee its accuracy.
Segments Timeline
Introduction
"He's not trained in this business at all. He doesn't follow any of the protocol that you're used to. He's just so uncomfortably unusual. What he was trained on was he was trained in reality television..."
The Evolution of Media: From Centralization to Disruption
"Mark show. I'm Eric Torberg, uh the newest GP at 816Z. And before this, I was uh I was investing and also running a media company called Tarpentine, which uh I'm glad is now part of A16Z. and we thoug..."
The Internet’s Impact on Legacy Media
"basically of course the what happened was you know the the the the the internet actually worked um and uh it uh you know became a big factor in in in and it started to actually change the business of ..."
Activism in the Modern Tech Press
"And and it felt like that happened that ramped up at some point where a lot of media particularly in tech sort of turned from sort of reviewing gadgets to defending democracy. Yes. So that evolution, ..."
The Rise and Fall of Institutional Trust
"once called it uh moral clarity uh sort of in in justifying what what journalists uh needed to needed to have. Well, there's there's also there there's always been an inherent well, not always, for ma..."
Recognizing the Shift in Legacy Media
"when when did you guys start to notice that that some of the legacy media was really failing to achieve its its ideals and maybe Mark we can get into Martin Gur's sort of analysis and some of the stru..."
Journalism: Objectivity vs. Activism
"at this point. Yeah. And and that that was, you know, also when Trump started calling them the fake news. Um which, you know, that and and that was actually in response to um the kind of journalist sa..."
Martin Gurri and the Collapse of Authority
"bring to this uh this analysis? He's really shaped your thinking here. Yeah. Yeah. So Martin Gur is a is a you know good friend of ours and is a brilliant writer. Um he spent 30 years in the CIA doing..."
The Trump Era and the Media Paradigm Shift
"government. Um right um you know there's only a few politicians who who are really in charge, right? And so um so basically like that that whole idea of authority um that you could basically trust and..."
Decentralization: From Talk Radio to Social Media
"Well first off what happened in the 70s to to give full context. Yeah. So the the the I would say there's a there's a cultural argument um and the cultural argument has to do with basically the you kn..."
Is Social Media an Engine or a Camera?
"and accelerating all the way to social media. One one question Mark you also like to ask is uh is social media the engine or the camera? Is it sort of yeah um creating net new behavior or or kind of j..."
Ben’s Early Perspective on Media and Politics
"Ben, I'm curious to hear more more of your perspective on kind of your your personal evolution. You mentioned earlier that that your father uh was a journalist and and a political writer as well. You ..."
Trump as a Bridge Between Legacy and Social Media
"legacy media playbook was being disrupted by the internet. And this is where it might be interesting to return back to the Trump phenomenon less in terms of the the politics but more in terms of the t..."
Media Training vs. Unfiltered Authenticity
"Yeah. and and say more about the the style that that Trump and and maybe Elon and others the sort of evolution has has followed where it seems um like you're less trying to be you know unifying to eve..."
Reality TV, Professional Wrestling, and the New Playbook
"No, no. What I agree with everything you just said, but I'd also add what what he was trained on was he was trained in reality television. Yeah. Right. Um and so I have not been on reality TV. My unde..."
Drama, Partisanship, and the Age of Personality
"Yeah. Yeah. It makes sense that in a supply constrained world you'd want to stay out of drama and in a in a you know when the internet shifts the sort of um the structural dynamic such that that deman..."
How Cable News Became 24/7 Entertainment
"kind of thing. Yeah. Kamala is for they them. Uh yeah that that you know Trump is for you there's a great great advertisement to to that to that effect. Mark, talk talk about Life the Movie because I ..."
The UFC’s Early Struggles for Media Access
"real life things that are happening if you want to you can imsh yourself in them 24/7 right and and this this new media landscape Cape will just like feed you infinite content um on on on whatever the..."
The Barbell Effect: Short Clips vs. Long-Form Podcasts
"People called this past election the podcast election or you many people are not sort of the influence of people like like Rogan and and others. Um you know Democrats are asking why don't we have our ..."
The Tools of Subversion When Out of Power
"talking around it, but you know, when when your party is out of power, you have to learn sort of uh sort of the skills of subversion, right? And and and comedy and and sort of contrarian thinking. The..."
Media Strategy for Founders
"Yeah. So, let's um we we've been talking at a at a structural level, at a theoretical level. Why don't we make this a little bit uh practical, a little bit applied? Um Mark, what would you say to that..."
The Power of Going Direct: Founders, Brands, and Audiences
"And yeah, the thing you you would say is is really or we'd well say is sort of invest in the go direct um capabilities. Uh you know, founders who have great sort of um you know, reputations, public pr..."