"- How would a kangaroo attack a human?` - Knock 'em down and then they choke him. - Who, the kangaroos do? - They choke each other. Yeah. - They don't choke each other. - You don't believe me? You got..."

"Craig, can you introduce everyone? - Yep. So, we got Nicky Rod here. Brown belt, two-time ADCC silver medalist. Nicky Ryan, here. That's it. (laughter) - Okay. Who are you? - And I'm Craig Jones. Also..."

"- That's a good introduction to Craig. So, what about you? When's the first time you made money on jiu-jitsu? Or what's-- Actually, stepping back, like, what's the thing you're most proud of? Is it a ..."

"- Are you actually a brown belt? Or was that a joke? - Brown belt, yeah. - You're a brown belt. Like how many stripes? - No stripes. - No stripes. Okay. - Stripeless. - Okay. Is that part of the proce..."

"- Yeah. It's an interesting rank. It's like, it's something that takes many years to accomplish, and for a lot of people it's truly meaningful. It's like it represents a particular step in a journey. ..."

"- But you know like, because you coming from a little bit of the wrestling culture. One of the things I really love is at the end of the match when they lose they just, there's no, they just run off. ..."

"- Low energy. - What about you, Nicky? Love of winning versus hate of losing? - I'm a very competitive person. So, I for sure hate losing more than I like winning. I do think it's something that's kin..."

"- Step on the mats. My philosophy is there's no warmups on the street. (chuckling) - We're so vastly different. (laughter) - All right. So, you like legit don't warm up? - No, I probably should now I'..."

"- That's exactly what I was thinking. - How does the sun run out of energy? (laughter) You caught me there. - It burn out. It's like a, it's a nuclear fusion engine and eventually burns out. - Like, w..."

"- Excellent. Thank you. I have a bunch of your merch. - Oh nice. This one's the Jordan Burrow's rip off. - All I see is silver. The way he pronounce burrows is very sexy. Okay. - I throw lines at peop..."

"And should you make a T-shirt out of it or? - I mean, honestly a T-shirt, I don't know how well that sells. You know? - I think it would, you know, I think that-- (chuckles) Let's brainstorm on this o..."

"And I remember I competed against him at a ADCC and then we had the EBI event, and then I had a Kasai. I used to compete all the time, every week. I wouldn't even do the preparation or anything. I'd j..."

"and join a bigger team just cause that flight to Australia is death. Australia is so far away from everywhere. It's kind of like, not realistic to base yourself in Australia when all the tournaments a..."

"- You get humbled? - Humbled? - Do you get humbled in that room at first? - For sure. Cause my style at the time was basically a rip off version of what they were doing. - [Lex] Yeah. - Leg locks came..."

"John Danaher as Colonel Kurtz. Things got very weird in the jungle, and the teams went into different interactions. But honestly, I mean it's not really my story to tell. I had some issues with some o..."

"- What is that happening in the jungle? - The things happen in the jungle. - Shall never be spoken of. - That I personally cannot speak of. Yeah, but obviously I do miss certain aspects like, I mean, ..."

"You come to my house and defend my people. All right. (chuckling) We're gonna go to every dark place, apparently. Nick, how did you get with DDS? Like what was that journey like? Is there, try to see ..."

"whose tougher came up between the wrestlers and a few of the bouncers that trained jiu-jitsu. And you know, they convinced me to go to a practice. And I went to my first practice over there, and for t..."

"At the time I lived in South Jersey, and it was about two and a half hour, three hour drive without traffic to New York. - Where in South Jersey? - Gloucester County. Clayton, New Jersey specifically,..."

"What, are there things that you remember that you've learned from John Danaher from your time you spent with him? - Yeah, I mean I definitely learned a ton from John and the team as a whole. Like, you..."

"So I was like, all right, I'm good at getting to the back. Let me perfect controlling the back and then submitting opponent via rear naked choke. And then besides that, I really focus on leg lock defe..."

"that I can continue to go to with multiple questions. But yeah, definitely, it took me some time to adjust to training or to learning from, you know, specifically my team and not just one person. - We..."

"I knew what I wanted to do with my life at a young age. So, I ended up dropping outta school actually, after my freshman year in high school. So yeah, 15 I ended up dropping out and just pursuing jiu-..."

"I'll do the Russian translation. (laughter) Okay. So, what are, what are things that you enjoy that you remember from working with John Danaher? - Yeah, I mean, you know, obviously he's considered one..."

"and he had a crazy match with Kron, at Kron Gracie at ADCC. But Eddie was just starting to break out. Gordon just started winning EBI. So, I started training under John, you know, right when everythin..."

"Like, if you wanted to actually make a living, you'd eventually have to transfer to MMA. And I feel like Gordon and Gary and those guys were, you know, some of the first people to make a very good liv..."

"- Definitely initially, during the initial split, we definitely hated each other at the beginning. But it's definitely started to calm down. Actually, just prior to, you know, all this social media dr..."

"- Well, there's this godfather quote that I wrote down, I recently re-watched it. From the Don, from Don Corleone, Vito Corleone. "The strength of a family, like the strength of an army lies in its lo..."

"So I definitely, you know, miss him from time to time. - Okay. Imagine you're like 40 years from now, sitting on a porch with a shotgun drinking whiskey, looking over like all the land you've conquere..."

"- Might be a play. (laughter) - A musical? - Yeah, a musical. - On Broadway. How's your singing voice? - Mine's not so good, but Nicky has a beautiful voice. - Does he? Of an angel? I bet. Okay. Speak..."

"flowers for Valentine's Day. A posting on Instagram, quote, "I've been fucking him in every round in competition since we met in 2018. The least I can do is buy him flowers." - We didn't get the flowe..."

"- We didn't get the flowers. - No, so... Yeah, that was the question. Did you get the flowers? You never got the flowers. - He sent it to the wrong address. - [Lex] He did? - Yeah. - Where do you thin..."

"- With a toe hold. - With a toe hold, yep. And you know, after that, we had a a bit more. I was just being working on top positions trying to get my body lock. Time runs out and we go to overtime. In ..."

"- Grade three. - How hard do you think is it to, I always wondered that with like a straight foot lock, how hard is it to break the shin, or like the actual bones versus the tear stuff? - Depends how ..."

"- Okay, what happened in overtime? Let's see, trying to hang. Oh okay. I go with defense first. Whistle blows, I'm able to escape in like 17 seconds. And then immediately after, I go on his back, and ..."

"- So, you're implying you're a natural athlete, is what you're saying? - Oh, I'm definitely a natural athlete. Yeah. Heavy immolation. (laughter) - Okay. So, for people who don't know the EBI rules, i..."

"and it kind of goes the other way. - What about you? - I mean honestly, there's all the different roles. When I look at the role sets, I just try to think of what role set I could beat that individual..."

"Yeah, so I think EBI is very good from a spectator point of view. You know, people find it very entertaining to watch. You know, cause people wanna see submissions and you're putting people, - [Lex] Y..."

"- Good. (Lex chuckles) - The issue is people like stalling to just win the overtime. - Yeah. - So, where you got this guy, his whole training camp is just, not get subbed and win the overtime. It's a ..."

"- If you, Nicky Rod, definitively beat Gordon Ryan, how would you do it? - Buggy choke. - Buggy Choke. - Buggy choke. For the listener, (soft laughter) I don't even know how to describe buggy choke. W..."

"- [Craig] Yeah. - To everybody. - People pull out very quick to avoid suffering the consequences. - I think some people underestimate how good of a submission it is. I mean like once you're locked in ..."

"- I mean, yeah. I don't know if we'd call it a system. (laughter) It's a good move. - I mean, you take an opponent that was just winning in a greatly dominant position and then boom, in that same posi..."

"- I have, yeah. (Craig chuckles loudly) Yeah. I gave you a little, you know? - Gave me a little pop and then he let go. (chuckles) - That was only 10% right there. Imagine-- (laughs) - [Craig] Hey, do..."

"- [Lex] That's impressive. (Lex chuckling) - Oh and five. I mean, I will say one thing, nobody beats me four times. (soft laughter) - I love you so much, Craig. - I did have a question. I did have a q..."

"To me, if I can just gently provoke and get a strong reaction, that's hilarious. Like Aussies, we'll just attack each other, and the first person that gets upset, he kind of loses the exchange. So, I ..."

"Okay. Well by the way, you've talked very lightly. You've talked shit very lightly against Alexander Volkanovski's opponent, very lightly. Have you received death threats or, how are you still alive? ..."

"But, I would love to travel with you to Russia. - That would be a good time. - [Lex] Yeah. - You might get killed with me, now. - No, I would be like the first to turn to backstab you. (laughter) - Li..."

"- But generally, like, do ADCC and like, does jiu-jitsu test? - [Craig] It's actually encouraged. - What's encouraged? - No, I'm kidding. - You get a pamphlet. Okay. They don't test? There's no testin..."

"just for the glory? - I think if you're 40, about to die, looking at a cabinet of gold medals for wrestling other men, it's probably not gonna hit the same way on your death bed. You know? - What? Sor..."

"- How many years are you willing to shave off for a gold medal? - That's a good question. How many? How many are you willing to shave off for a gold medal? What year for silver medal? - For silver. I ..."

"But why don't grapplers talk about it? Because the team's cheating. - I mean, it's kind of insinuated as a bit of cheating. Even if it's not, like, if it's not tested, I mean, still, you're taking a p..."

"- Okay. And by the way, gear is steroids? - [Nicky Ryan] Steroids, yeah. - Okay. - I also think that you don't have to be as consistent in like your sleep, in your food and stuff, if you're on gear. Y..."

"cause he kind of admitted it and whatnot, you know, previously. So, it's yeah, I just kind of felt like I had to rebuttal. And I didn't do it immediately cause I was like, all right. I know I have thi..."

"- Okay. Best. All right. What does B stand for, for you? What does it represent? What is the ideal like the, you know, Miyamoto Musashi, philosophical foundation of B-Team? - Aim low and achieve. - Hm..."

"We focus on more, we lean heavily towards the professional athlete side of things. We have a lot of high level guys in there. - [Lex] Yeah. - Class structure, regular instruction and positional sparri..."

"Like, I portray a pretty insane image online, and I guess I am that, a lot of the time But at training, try to keep it, while training. Around training I'm insulting everyone. But while training, I tr..."

"Keep it lighthearted. - What was in the video? What are the dos and don'ts? Because like the address is public, like anyone can show up. - Anyone can show up. Yeah. What were the dos and don'ts? - Doe..."

"You now allow white belts to train with you. What's it like to open it up to a bigger audience? - We haven't opened it up yet, but it'll be interesting to see. I mean, I feel like your higher belts, t..."

"- For those of you who are Russians, I'll give you, I'll send you instructions, or all the forms, so you know how to steal it. - [Craig] Yeah, a discount card. - I bought 'em all so I'll just send it ..."

"Like, if you were to optimize the first six months of a beginner. There's a lot of people who would listen to this and haven't tried, they've been curious. I have a lot of friends who haven't, who are..."

"- You wrote Craig, "I'm a big fan of constraint based learning," I guess, was what you're talking about. "I love presenting beginners with a problem before the solution. Like here, attempt to hold sid..."

"- Yeah, I think that probably that style of teaching forces people to focus on. Cause it's so easy to fall into focusing and like memorizing a particular details of a technique without thinking like, ..."

"because obviously the jiu-jitsu guy's shot isn't gonna be as athletic or as quick as a wrestler, especially a wrestler who shoots. - So, it actually comes down to the fact that jiu-jitsu people just o..."

"- And then there's another level of wrestling of course, with the Soviet block, that was just unachievable for your kind. - Who knew an Australian rugby, - [Lex] Yeah. - A former rugby player. - Rugby..."

"Your friend, your training partner, Alexander Volkanovski, you helped him prepare for the Islam Makhachev versus Volkanovski fight. Who do you think, first of all, won that fight? - That's a tricky on..."

"I think sometimes you're blinded in the moment because again, everyone counted Volkanovski out. The crowd's behind him. So, everything he does is gonna get a huge cheer. You're bias towards the smalle..."

"But obviously, that's gonna hold up both divisions. So, I don't know if they'll be able to do it. - Do you think they'll do a rematch soon? I mean, that was an epic fight. I was listening to the fight..."

"What was the brief conversation you had with Islam Makhachev and his team? - I didn't know how he would take the joke. Cause obviously Khabib tried to flying eagle kick Dillon Danis in the face. So, I..."

"And then, I thought the interaction was over, and then he circled back. So, that's why I was so awkward. I was like, oh, he's coming back. He wants to say, he wants something else. But he just said, w..."

"- I think they all scored four towards Islam. - [Lex] Yeah. - Three and five. Two of the judges scored towards Volks. One of the judges scored three for Islam. One of the-- It was 49-46 for one of the..."

"greatest fighter in the world. How long have you known him? - I don't know the first-- I met him before he was in the UFC, when I used to live in Melbourne. He came down to train at Absolute. - [Lex] ..."

"- [Lex] Yeah. - Obviously, I was useful in the Ortega fight. Helped him get out of submissions. He fought then Korean zombie, Max Holloway. I basically just held the bucket at that point in the corner..."

"He's super good on the cage, super like, under respected in that position. And we knew that if you were able to take the scrambles to the cage, he would be effective against Islam. Cause again, Islam ..."

"Islam loves Kimuras, obviously rear naked from the back, arm bars, those are sort of-- And arm triangles dominant submissions. But again, the guys he submitted, not grapplers. Apart from Charles Olive..."

"unstoppable boogeyman that people make him out to be. So, we approached it from that, just focused on the techniques, ability to get back up, using turtle to get back up. Using turtle to scoot to the ..."

"whether you're fresh or you're tired. And then you combine that with Volkanovski, who incredible willpower, never gets tired, you're never gonna break him. And as you saw, he only attempted one submis..."

"He gets into that sort of mindset. - [Lex] He actually says that out loud? - You can't teach that survival he did in the Ortega fight, you know? - Have you guys ever been like pushed to the limit like..."

"You know? Like, you've seen in matches where guys sprint the last like minute, they try to win the match in the last minute, and it's like, you definitely had some mistakes leading up to that if you h..."

"Is the bottom a bad place to be? - I mean, the bottom's bad if you don't want that guy on top of you. That's the way I look at it. You know? - Yeah. That sounds like something a cowboy would say. But ..."

"Like when I do play guard, the bottom, I feel like the submissions come much easier. And when I'm on top, they come also pretty easy. But, maybe I just take a different route. (giggling) - Two cowboys..."

"- So, almost like the psychological aspect of like, of doing the best you can for him. - Exactly. Yep yep. - What was the hardest about the actual training? Was it the technical aspect of trying to fi..."

"and all that kind of stuff. So, all these submissions like, both judo and submissions just attacking, attacking. - Exactly. And there's only so much he can do really, cause obviously he's been, I thin..."

"- That's right. He takes a joke pretty well. - [Lex] Yeah. - No, you'll be welcome with open arms. (Craig laughs) - I think your average jiu-jitsu coach, MMA fighters have bad experience with jiu-jits..."

"- Okay. (laughs) - I can think of a good opponent, you know? - Which dude was that? All right. (laughter) Who do you think is the greatest MMA fighter of all time? Craig, we can start with you. Just a..."

"That kind of thing. Well, what about you? What do you think? Like, who are the fighters you admire? Like, who do you think is the greatest of all time? - I think the fighter I paid most attention to w..."

"- I wonder what that is. What is that, technique? What is that? What is it about their upbringing? Cause it's just that part of the world. Or the Saitiev brothers with the freestyle wrestling side to ..."

"He's probably by far the most popular combat athlete of all time because of that. - [Craig] Yeah. - I feel like you have to cross the line. I don't think enough people appreciate like the values he's ..."

"All right. What do you think is the most important muscle for jiu-jitsu? Is it biceps? - Oh, I think a strong, I think a strong back. I think back one, core second, and then biceps. - Okay, biceps. Co..."

"(giggles) What about, like, what about injury prevention and so on? How do you train to minimize the risk of injury? You guys have all been pretty beat up. You've gotten a major injury with the ACL. -..."

"But it was during the no points period. And then as the match went on, I gassed out and eventually, he ended up taking me down and then scoring with two hooks on the back. - So, what's the injury? - Y..."

"I just go out there compete. You know, I knew it was like the biggest event to date, and I really wanted to do it. - Did you think about not doing it? - It definitely was a thought in my head. Especia..."

"And man, he had a close match with one of the best grapplers in his weight class and it's like, you know, a few adjustments here and there. And especially, you know, if he was able to train previously..."

"- How do you guys think about injury? How do you train, you know, training with the best in the world, training to be the best in the world, and avoiding injury. Cause you've gotten-- You tore your bi..."

"you know, having a very vigorous arm day, few hours prior. - You hear that about warmup. So like, what are some lessons about avoiding injury? - I would say number one is, warming up properly. Making ..."

"- Well, what about you, Craig? So, what's the way to avoid injury? What's the worst injury you've had? - What's the worst injury? I don't even know. I'm pretty good, pretty healthy. Yeah. - Whenever y..."

"You know what I mean? Get too emotional in the role. I feel like those are the times that I've been hurt, where I've just like, Ugh! I can't let this guy get me. When I have that attitude and tra-- I ..."

"is there wisdom you've learned from that experience? - Yeah, definitely should be doing rehab and prehab. You know, I think that, you know, especially if you're a hobbyist or a professional athlete, y..."

"- Well, that's the problem with the injury I have. It feels like a stubbed toe. So, I was like, all right, I'll just wait a couple days, it'll be fine. And then a couple days later, it's not fine. And..."

"Oh, you mentioned you're doing a whole thing on the pre-match ritual. Can you kind of preview like what kind of, what's involved in your pre-match ritual? - It's pretty big in the wrestling culture an..."

"- On game day? Honestly, no routine, nothing. I don't, yeah, I don't do anything. - [Nicky Rod] This guy's a double silver. - We're both double. (laughter) - You should get it. You should buy his inst..."

"- What about the motivation aspect? Like, that voice that says like, why am I doing this? That voice can break a lot of people. Like, in the weight cut, it can break a lot of people. Like, why am I do..."

"Sometimes the pressure of taking everything way too seriously can break you. - I mean, I just don't think it's that big a sport really. You know? Like-- - I think if I compete every day in practice, i..."

"- Are you proud of your performance there? Like, you stepped on the mat that you pushed through all of it? - Like I said, I'm a very competitive person and I hate losing. So, definitely not, yeah. - Y..."

"It was very grueling-- - I'm very mean when I'm in the midst of drilling or live. Like, we would do, we would drill wrestling, you know, quite a bit, like stand up. And in the drilling, like, I just w..."

"- What do you think is the value of positional training in general in jiu-jitsu? Actually, this one just interacting with you guys. It's not commonly done in just like regular jiu-jitsu gyms. What do ..."

"- Prior to-- - Getting up, including like, physically. - Prior to the keeping escape, I would probably agree with him. But that keeping escape's so difficult to manage. It's the funny looking escape. ..."

"- See what they'll believe. - Speaking of which, how do you balance, you have to travel all across the world. How do you balance that with running a school or being a world class jiu-jitsu athlete? - ..."

"- [Lex] Yeah. - For sure, until I get back. - All right. What about you? Just like balancing it, do you try to stay completely focused on competing, like for some of the big matches you have coming up..."

"- How do you experiment with stuff? Like how do you, So, there's like regular positional stuff, but when you have ideas, like where? Do you do it in during the training sessions, or do it outside of t..."

"You don't seem like a guy that over. - I've heard of it. Never been close to it. Nah, I think controlling how hard you train is definitely protects you from injury, you know what I mean? Like, if you ..."

"I'm always on, bro. Okay. What advice would you give to people who are not always on hobbyists? How to get better. Like, people that are already there. I don't know. Purple belts, brown belts, black b..."

"and what he looks like. (laughter) So, editing this podcast will be especially difficult. This would be doubly difficult. But I'm glad the rest of you are here. I don't know. That's a real thing. Do y..."

"Basically, when you become a hobbyist, your skill is basically slipping. Your age and your skill. And so, not taking stuff seriously is actually its own psychological skill of like you're... That, it'..."

"you know, they're coming in hot. And I usually like to just basically get submitted quickly twice and just, it changes everything. It makes it more fun. I see. I've noticed it. - Let them submit you t..."

"- I think the beauty of just is like the camaraderie of it. Like, as you get to know each other's like technical, like different ideas you have and all of that. Yeah. Okay. Do you think Gi jiu-jitsu i..."

"Like heel hooks, I can vaguely understand, if you don't understand heel hooks. - If you work a desk job and you've never wrestled and a guy double legs you, that's gonna probably break you back. You k..."

"I don't know, sixth months. - But you're also using judo in competition, basically. Aren't you doing like Harai type throw like you're doing? - Yeah, I don't know where I learned that. I just started ..."

"That was pretty interesting to see you escape all that and to put put it on. That's the cool thing about EBI, to see like the world class athletes. I was surprised that it's possible to escape with yo..."

"- Have you ever broken anyone's arm? - Oh yeah. I mean the first few competitions cause I was like, you know, pretty athletic grappler or athletic wrestler going against local black belts and brown be..."

"- Yeah, I mean I'm learning them now. We had some kid come into practice one day and like fucking pull out all of us do it. - Pull a straight foot lock? - Straight foot lock. Just this little like Pol..."

"- When's the last time you shut the ego off? - It's been a long time. (soft laughter) (Lex laughing) - What about you, Craig? Do you, I mean, you seem to be super easygoing. Is there, like, is the ego..."

"Like, people you've met that are just like. - Well, somebody that I think has a probably the best like submission grappling in MMA, I think like Gilbert Burns is a-- His submission grappling, that's s..."

"All right, well... Is there people, like you've done all these seminars are they're just, especially in the eastern block that you see. - [Craig] Ah, yeah. - Like you went to Kazakhstan. Is there kill..."

"but just doesn't compete anymore. - Who wins in a fight, a lion or a bear? - [Craig] Polar bear? - This for you, Reddit. No, not a polar-- Well, yes, it's a good ques-- See, you're on-- Polar bear is ..."

"- A lion would kill a black bear, I think. - Not every black, again, I'm trying to tell you, there's differences. (laughter) - But grizzly and polar bear, I'm betting on those. - Yeah, no, I think gri..."

"- Gimme a snake bite any day. - [Lex] Yeah. Hey, you know what? Let me change the question. Is like, if you had to fight a bear or a lion, how would you try to defeat it? Do you think you have a chanc..."

"Like a full grown lion. - Yeah. And they're also like terrifyingly like, loud with their roars and stuff. - Yeah, I think, So, first of all, if I saw grizzly I'm like, all right, he's gonna attack me...."

"like if there's a predator around, they'll wait in a pool of water. And then if it comes to attack, they drown 'em. They're pretty smart. (Lex chuckles) - Okay. Speaking of which, what's the most effe..."

"They could be false though. - That sounds crazy. - [Nicky Rod] I'm saying. - I kind of admire that, but I've also been playing Red Dead Redemption recently. So, I like internalized the cowboy a little..."

"- Still, it sucks. Just to mention, I'm clueless to this. But I'm just now learning this. Somebody I met and talked to and I really like is Isaac. And he just learned because you're also active on Red..."

"Definitely a lesson for me from a management role to try to address these things sooner. But also, sometimes I came up in a different time where there was no money, no opportunities. I had to pave tha..."

"- Take some MDMA, or really get down to it. - Drugs solve everything. (Craig chuckles) If you've learned anything from this conversation. I've actually haven't done MDMA yet. People say that that's so..."