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Dawn Song: Adversarial Machine Learning and Computer Security | Lex Fridman Podcast #95

Dawn Song: Adversarial Machine Learning and Computer Security | Lex Fridman Podcast #95

17 segments available

Dawn Song is a professor of computer science at UC Berkeley with research interests in security, most recently with a focus on the intersection between computer security and machine learning. Support this podcast by signing up with these sponsors: - Cash App - use code "LexPodcast" and download: - Cash App (App Store): https://apple.co/2sPrUHe - Cash App (Google Play): https://bit.ly/2MlvP5w EPISODE LINKS: Dawn's Twitter: https://twitter.com/dawnsongtweets Dawn's Website: https://people.eecs.berkeley.edu/~dawnsong/ Oasis Labs: https://www.oasislabs.com Oasis Labs Twitter: https://twitter.com/OasisLabs PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 1:53 - Will software always have security vulnerabilities? 9:06 - Human are the weakest link in security 16:50 - Adversarial machine learning 51:27 - Adversarial attacks on Tesla Autopilot and self-driving cars 57:33 - Privacy attacks 1:05:47 - Ownership of data 1:22:13 - Blockchain and cryptocurrency 1:32:13 - Program synthesis 1:44:57 - A journey from physics to computer science 1:56:03 - US and China 1:58:19 - Transformative moment 2:00:02 - Meaning of life CONNECT: - Subscribe to this YouTube channel - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LexFridmanPage - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman

Segments Timeline

1
0:00 - 1:50
1:49 duration324 words

Introduction to Dawn Song

In this segment, Lex Fridman introduces Dawn Song, a professor at UC Berkeley specializing in computer security and machine learning. The conversation sets the stage for exploring the intersection of these fields, emphasizing the importance of security in the digital age.

"the following is a conversation with Dan song a professor of computer science at UC Berkeley with research interests and computer security most recently with a focus on the intersection between securi..."

2
1:50 - 9:00
7:10 duration1023 words

The Nature of Software Vulnerabilities

Dawn Song discusses the inherent challenges in achieving bug-free software, highlighting that security vulnerabilities will always exist. She explains the evolving nature of attacks and the difficulty in defining what constitutes a vulnerability, emphasizing the need for ongoing advancements in security measures.

"with dawn song systems will always have security vulnerabilities I started abroad almost philosophical level that's a very good question I mean in general right it's very difficult to write completely..."

3
9:00 - 16:50
7:50 duration1224 words

Humans: The Weakest Link in Security

In this segment, Dawn Song elaborates on the concept that humans often represent the weakest link in security systems. She discusses how attackers increasingly target individuals through social engineering, making it crucial to develop methods that help protect users from these vulnerabilities.

"vulnerabilities it's exciting ones very fascinating ones in the space of machine learning but is there a particular security vulnerability that worries you the most that you think about the most in te..."

4
16:50 - 51:27
34:37 duration5161 words

Adversarial Machine Learning Explained

Dawn Song introduces adversarial machine learning, explaining how attackers manipulate input data to deceive machine learning systems. She discusses the implications of these attacks on the accuracy and reliability of AI systems, emphasizing the need for robust defenses against such vulnerabilities.

"fascinating topic you work on is again also non-traditional to think about a security vulnerability but I guess it is is adversarial machine learning is basically again high up the stack being able to..."

5
51:27 - 57:33
6:06 duration988 words

Adversarial Attacks on Self-Driving Cars

In this segment, Dawn Song discusses the specific challenges posed by adversarial attacks on self-driving cars, such as Tesla's Autopilot. She highlights the potential consequences of these attacks and the importance of ensuring the safety and security of autonomous vehicles.

"let's talk about another space that people have some concern about which is autonomous driving is sort of security concerns that's another real world system so do you have should people be worried abo..."

6
57:33 - 1:05:47
8:14 duration1196 words

Privacy Attacks in the Digital Age

Dawn Song addresses the growing concern of privacy attacks, discussing how adversaries exploit vulnerabilities to compromise personal data. She emphasizes the need for stronger privacy protections and the role of technology in safeguarding user information.

"so another thing another part of your work has been in the space of privacy and that too can be seen as a kind of security vulnerability as social thinking of data as a thing that should be protected ..."

7
1:05:47 - 1:22:13
16:26 duration2484 words

Ownership of Data

In this segment, the conversation shifts to the topic of data ownership. Dawn Song discusses the implications of data control in the digital landscape, exploring how individuals and organizations can navigate the complexities of data rights and privacy.

"the attacks and the defense of privacy you also talked about ownership of data so this this is a really interesting idea that we get to use many services online for seemingly for free by essentially s..."

8
1:22:13 - 1:32:13
10:00 duration1377 words

Blockchain and Cryptocurrency

Dawn Song delves into the intersection of blockchain technology and cryptocurrency, discussing its potential to enhance security and privacy. She explores the implications of decentralized systems and how they can reshape the future of digital transactions.

"interesting space where security is really important is in in the space of any kinds of transactions but it could be also digital currency so can you maybe talk a little bit about blockchain and can y..."

9
1:32:13 - 1:44:57
12:44 duration1743 words

Program Synthesis and Security

In this segment, Dawn Song discusses program synthesis, explaining how it can be leveraged to improve software security. She highlights the advancements in this area and the potential for creating more secure systems through automated code generation.

"so much amazing work that we'll never be able to get to but I have to ask at least briefly about program synthesis which at least in a philosophical sense captures much of the dreams of what's possibl..."

10
1:44:57 - 1:56:03
11:06 duration1531 words

From Physics to Computer Science

Dawn Song shares her personal journey from studying physics to becoming a leading figure in computer science and security. She reflects on the interdisciplinary nature of her work and the importance of diverse perspectives in tackling complex problems.

"had a very interesting and we talked about rich representations he had a rich life journey you did your bachelor's in China and your masters and PhD in the United States CMU and Berkeley are there int..."

11
1:56:03 - 1:58:19
2:16 duration359 words

US and China in Tech

In this segment, the discussion turns to the technological landscape between the US and China. Dawn Song examines the competitive dynamics and implications for innovation and security in both countries.

"not sure but I think you're not in similar positions is I've been here for already 20 years as well and looking at Russia from our perspective and you looking at China in some ways it's a very distant..."

12
1:58:19 - 2:00:02
1:43 duration272 words

A Transformative Moment

Dawn Song reflects on transformative moments in her career and the broader tech landscape. She discusses the significance of adaptability and innovation in navigating the rapidly changing world of technology.

"romanticized question but looking back what would you say was the most transformative moment in your life that maybe made you fall in love with computer science you said physics you remember there was..."

13
2:00:02 - 2:00:30
0:28 duration62 words

The Meaning of Life

In the closing segment, Dawn Song shares her thoughts on the meaning of life, tying together themes of technology, security, and human experience. She emphasizes the importance of purpose and connection in the digital age.

"ask a silly question or maybe the ultimate question what is to you the meaning of life what what gives your life meaning purpose fulfillment happiness joy okay these are two different questions very d..."

14
2:02:10 - 2:04:33
2:23 duration347 words

Creation as Purpose

Dawn shares her belief that creation is central to her life's meaning. She discusses how the act of creating—whether it's programming, writing papers, or developing ideas—brings her joy and fulfillment. The conversation touches on the importance of growth and the journey of creation in defining one's purpose.

"right like this is your destiny um so who right so that's the one question like who gets to define the meaning of your life should you be finding some other thing some other factor to define this for ..."

15
2:04:33 - 2:06:16
1:43 duration297 words

The Journey vs. The Destination

The dialogue shifts to the idea that the journey of growth and creation is often more significant than the end goal. Dawn and Lex reflect on how the process of overcoming challenges and striving for improvement can be more fulfilling than the achievements themselves, emphasizing the intrinsic value of the journey.

"often questions is not worse most questions open I tend to think that just asking the question as you mentioned as you've done for a long time is the only that there is no answer and asking the questi..."

16
2:06:16 - 2:09:29
3:13 duration537 words

The Search for Meaning

Dawn and Lex discuss the ongoing search for meaning in life, acknowledging that while definitive answers may be elusive, the act of questioning itself can be liberating. They explore how personal definitions of meaning can evolve and the importance of finding purpose in one's pursuits.

"share a lot of similarity here like the creation is also really important for me even from you know the things that I've already talked about even like you know writing papers and these are our creati..."

17
2:09:29 - 2:12:34
3:04 duration466 words

Closing Thoughts on Life and Hacking

As the conversation wraps up, Dawn and Lex reflect on the significance of discussing life's meaning. They conclude with a nod to the playful nature of hacking, quoting Steve Wozniak, and emphasizing the importance of curiosity and exploration in both life and technology.

"long time you know I thought like isn't it all right like why what's how do we even know what's good and what's evil like it isn't everything just relative like how do we know you know the the questio..."