All Segments
Yeonmi Park: North Korea | Lex Fridman Podcast #196
24 segments available
Yeonmi Park is a North Korean defector, human rights activist, and author of the book In Order to Live. Please support this podcast by checking out our sponsors: - Belcampo: https://belcampo.com/lex and use code LEX to get 20% off first order - Gala Games: https://gala.games/lex - BetterHelp: https://betterhelp.com/lex to get 10% off - Eight Sleep: https://www.eightsleep.com/lex and use code LEX to get special savings EPISODE LINKS: Yeonmi's Twitter: https://twitter.com/YeonmiParkNK Yeonmi's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/officialyeonmipark Yeonmi's YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/c/YeonmiParkOfficial In Order to Live (book): https://amzn.to/3wdtKfL PODCAST INFO: Podcast website: https://lexfridman.com/podcast Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/2lwqZIr Spotify: https://spoti.fi/2nEwCF8 RSS: https://lexfridman.com/feed/podcast/ Full episodes playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOdP_8GztsuKi9nrraNbKKp4 Clips playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLrAXtmErZgOeciFP3CBCIEElOJeitOr41 OUTLINE: 0:00 - Introduction 3:58 - Growing up in North Korea 9:22 - Animal Farm 15:37 - Search for meaning 20:25 - Love 22:42 - Language 27:06 - Yeonmi's dad 29:07 - Escaping North Korea 34:24 - The world is ignoring the genocide in North Korea 46:26 - Evil 49:17 - Nuclear war 50:07 - Marxist origins of North Korea 55:20 - Famine 1:00:07 - Kim Jong-un is pure evil 1:06:43 - Freedom 1:09:55 - Michael Malice 1:13:35 - Diversity 1:20:55 - Political correctness 1:30:27 - Jordan Peterson 1:34:39 - Michael Malice book on North Korea 1:40:08 - Advice for young people 1:43:10 - Facing assassination 1:53:25 - Siddhartha by Hermann Hesse 1:55:57 - Meaning of life SOCIAL: - Twitter: https://twitter.com/lexfridman - LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/lexfridman - Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/lexfridman - Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/lexfridman - Medium: https://medium.com/@lexfridman - Reddit: https://reddit.com/r/lexfridman - Support on Patreon: https://www.patreon.com/lexfridman
Segments Timeline
The Silent Suffering of North Korea
Yeonmi Park discusses the devastating famine in North Korea from 1994 to 1998, which led to the deaths of hundreds of thousands to millions. She reflects on the psychological impact of hunger and the extreme measures people resorted to, including cannibalism. Park emphasizes the ongoing suffering under Kim Jong-un's regime and the lack of awareness about the atrocities occurring in North Korea.
"the following is a conversation with yon mi park a north korean defector human rights activist and author of the book in order to live quick mention of our sponsors balcampo gala games better help and..."
Growing Up in the Hermit Kingdom
Yeonmi Park shares her childhood experiences in North Korea, describing her initial belief that she lived in the best country on earth. She reflects on the indoctrination she faced, the absence of color in her life, and the lack of basic human rights. Park contrasts her past perceptions with her current understanding of freedom and happiness.
"from north korea to today as you describe in your 2015 book and with the extra perspective on life love and freedom you've gained since then wow that's a long story so i was born in the northern part ..."
The Awakening Through Literature
Park recounts her transformative experience reading 'Animal Farm' by George Orwell after escaping North Korea. She describes how the book helped her understand the lies she was told in her homeland and the nature of oppression. The realization that her beliefs were based on propaganda led to a profound awakening about her past and the reality of her situation.
"yeah so you've uh i have to say i often say that my favorite book is animal farm by george orwell i've read it i don't know how many times and so i was really happy to hear that that was uh of the man..."
The Haunting Nature of Oppression
In this segment, Yeonmi Park reflects on the gradual transition from freedom to oppression depicted in 'Animal Farm.' She discusses the haunting nature of the story, particularly the loss of identity and the normalization of suffering. Park draws parallels between the book's themes and her own experiences in North Korea, emphasizing the importance of awareness and resistance.
"you mentioned anger when i watch your interviews you're really calm and collected not just your interviews you know instagram the way you present yourself you um i don't know it seems like you're almo..."
The Power of Love and Hope
Yeonmi Park shares her belief in the power of love and hope amidst the darkness of oppression. She discusses how memories of her grandmother's love give her strength and hope for the future. Park emphasizes the resilience of the human spirit, even in the face of unimaginable cruelty.
"yeah so i talk about love quite a bit and you mentioned that romantic love uh i'm fascinated about love in many aspects but you mentioned romantic love was forbidden in north korea yeah what do you th..."
The Role of Language in Identity
In this segment, Park discusses the significance of language in shaping identity and understanding freedom. She reflects on how the lack of language for concepts like 'fashion' and 'romantic love' in North Korea contributed to a distorted sense of reality. Park emphasizes the importance of language in expressing individuality and connecting with the world.
"read 1984 by georgia where it talks about double think and double speak who controls the language who controls thoughts and why he does talk about as they go they like eliminate a lot of words right n..."
The Impact of Family
Yeonmi Park reflects on the role of family in her life while growing up in North Korea. She shares how her family's love provided moments of happiness amidst the oppressive regime. Park contrasts her experiences with the propaganda that sought to define happiness and meaning in her life.
"story of um of his struggle um uh of his death i mean first do you miss him do you think about it all the time like i had a son when i was 22. and i had ivf three times and i know as you see i'm like ..."
Escaping North Korea
In this segment, Yeonmi Park recounts her harrowing journey of escaping North Korea. She shares the challenges she faced and the risks involved in her quest for freedom. Park emphasizes the importance of resilience and determination in overcoming the obstacles that stood in her way.
"can you tell the story of um you escaping north korea to china yeah i think it's it's a thing it's amazing even though i was like 13 my like life outside north korea is almost like it went by like one..."
The Global Indifference to North Korean Genocide
Yeonmi Park discusses the world's ignorance regarding the ongoing genocide in North Korea. She highlights the need for global awareness and action to address the atrocities committed by the regime. Park emphasizes the importance of speaking out and advocating for the rights of North Koreans.
"what do you make of the others suffering in the world today the people there in north korea so that is part of the your of your life's work is helping those people mm-hmm what do you think about them ..."
Confronting Evil
In this emotional segment, Yeonmi Park expresses her feelings of hatred towards dictators like Kim Jong-il and Kim Jong-un, who perpetuate suffering in North Korea. She reflects on the nature of evil and the impact it has on innocent lives. Park shares her struggle to reconcile her emotions with the hope for a better future.
"evil comes from a tiny minority of people or does it permeate much larger parts of the population like if we look at sex trafficking how many people like is it 99.9 of the people are s are um longing ..."
The Threat of Nuclear War
Yeonmi Park addresses the looming threat of nuclear war under Kim Jong-un's regime. She discusses the implications of North Korea's nuclear ambitions and the potential consequences for the world. Park emphasizes the urgency of addressing this threat to prevent further suffering.
"see north korea being a potential instigator of a nuclear war they will not start any korean war as long as they can do whatever they want right now right north korea's army not designed to fight the ..."
The Marxist Roots of North Korea
In this segment, Park explores the Marxist origins of North Korea and how they have shaped the regime's ideology. She discusses the impact of Marxism on the country's governance and the suffering it has caused. Park emphasizes the need to understand these roots to address the current situation.
"aspects about north korean life can you describe the seongbon system of uh ascribed status used in north korea yeah so that's a very interesting thing right right now there are a lot of people playing..."
The Reality of Famine
Yeonmi Park shares her insights on the reality of famine in North Korea, drawing from her personal experiences and historical context. She discusses the government's role in perpetuating starvation and the impact it has on the population. Park emphasizes the need for awareness and action to combat this crisis.
"the there's something about famine you know that um is another is another level of evil to me you know what stalin did in ukraine in the 30s yeah fuck him yeah this is what torture is cannibalism yeah..."
Kim Jong-un: A Symbol of Evil
In this segment, Park describes Kim Jong-un as a symbol of pure evil, reflecting on the atrocities committed under his leadership. She discusses the impact of his regime on the North Korean people and the global community's response. Park emphasizes the importance of recognizing and confronting this evil.
"what about kim jong-un kim jong-un yeah is he intentionally evil or is he mindless mindlessly propagating an evil system created by his ancestors what's your sense of the man so with the keemer's song..."
The Meaning of Freedom
Yeonmi Park reflects on her understanding of freedom after escaping North Korea. She discusses the significance of liberty and the challenges faced by those who seek it. Park emphasizes the importance of valuing and protecting freedom in the face of oppression.
"can we talk a little bit about freedom what what does it mean to you having had we talked about love in that same way about freedom having sort of discovered it later in life what does it mean to you ..."
Michael Malice and the North Korean Narrative
In this segment, Park discusses her interactions with Michael Malice and his perspectives on North Korea. She reflects on the importance of sharing accurate narratives about the regime and the experiences of defectors. Park emphasizes the need for diverse voices in the conversation about North Korea.
"so you talked you're friends with michael malus he believes and so i want to kind of ask you about government he believes he's an anarchist and he believes kind of in freedom fully implemented in in h..."
The Complexity of Diversity
Yeonmi Park explores the concept of diversity in the context of her experiences. She discusses the importance of understanding different perspectives and the challenges faced by marginalized voices. Park emphasizes the need for inclusivity and empathy in discussions about human rights.
"the united states in the current culture that kind of has echoes of the same things you saw in north korea that that worry you that much absolutely it's it's uh it's in america now the meritocracy doe..."
Political Correctness and Its Implications
In this segment, Park addresses the topic of political correctness and its implications for free speech and discourse. She reflects on her experiences and the importance of open dialogue in addressing complex issues. Park emphasizes the need for critical thinking and honest conversations.
"jordan peterson recently and people should listen to that conversation it was a fascinating one i think um he he almost got emotional on the discussion about universities and your experience with colo..."
Jordan Peterson's Influence
Yeonmi Park discusses her admiration for Jordan Peterson and his influence on her understanding of freedom and personal responsibility. She reflects on the importance of individual agency and the role of education in fostering critical thinking. Park emphasizes the need for strong moral foundations in society.
"jordan peterson you had a great conversation with him what uh what was chatting with him like i'm just i'm just curious because he's deeply passionate especially on the soviet union side about the atr..."
Michael Malice's Book on North Korea
In this segment, Park shares her thoughts on Michael Malice's book about North Korea. She discusses the importance of accurate representation of the regime and the experiences of defectors. Park emphasizes the need for diverse narratives to challenge misconceptions about North Korea.
"so jordan is one of the great thinkers of our time but i would say the greatest thinkers of our time is michael malus you've also got to just talk to uh well so he wrote a book on north korea yeah it'..."
Advice for the Next Generation
Yeonmi Park offers advice for young people based on her experiences as a North Korean defector. She emphasizes the importance of resilience, critical thinking, and the pursuit of truth. Park encourages the next generation to be aware of the world around them and to advocate for justice.
"do you have a device for young people today you've lived an incredible life and you have i hope an incredible life ahead of you what advice would you give to young people today high schoolers college ..."
Facing Assassination
In this emotional segment, Park discusses the threats she faces as a human rights activist and the reality of assassination attempts. She reflects on the risks involved in speaking out against the North Korean regime and the importance of continuing her advocacy despite the dangers.
"you mentioned considering suicide do you think about your mortality now now that you're perhaps in slightly more comfortable place you still think about death i do because i was informed actually when..."
Siddhartha and the Search for Meaning
Yeonmi Park shares her reflections on Hermann Hesse's 'Siddhartha' and its themes of self-discovery and the search for meaning. She discusses how literature has shaped her understanding of life and the importance of personal growth. Park emphasizes the value of introspection and the journey toward enlightenment.
"the books you like are all the books i love so i have to mention this you mentioned uh briefly on the uh with jordan uh siddhartha by herman hesse is uh it's an incredible book yeah they're i mean i d..."
The Meaning of Life
In the concluding segment, Yeonmi Park reflects on the meaning of life and the lessons she has learned through her experiences. She discusses the importance of love, hope, and resilience in the face of adversity. Park emphasizes the need to find purpose and meaning in one's journey.
"question what do you think is the meaning of this whole thing of uh what's the meaning of life well i think at this point i stop questioning why i'm here right like it doesn't matter someone put the a..."