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4:35
Today is Monday, August 10th, 2026.
4:38
[applause] We're live in the TBNN Ultra Dome, >> the Temple of Technology, the fortress of finance, the capital of capital.
4:46
We got a packed studio today. We got a great show. Uh big big news.
4:51
Mark Zuckerberg dropped a blog post also.
4:54
I mean, the bigger news is that they open sourced uh already one model and they're planning to open source Muse Spark 1. 2. That's big.
5:02
Um but but the blog post lays out his AI vision and we should go through it.
5:06
First I'm going to tell you about ramp.
5:08
com times money save both.
5:10
He's used corporate cards, bill pay accounting and a whole lot more all in one place.
5:13
So um Meta was sort of set up to be also ran in the AI race like the Llama project stalled out.
5:20
Llama project stalled out. Yan Lun exited their biggest model behemoth never shipped which was ironic because in the Bible a behemoth is this untameable land creature and of course it was just the model was too big to be tamed to be released and it was like nominative determinism in action happens a lot in tech unfortunately but um they
5:43
also turned over the entire team and Zuck said I'm not quitting I'm not out of the game I'm staying I'm all in yeah and I'm raising debt equity doing all sorts of deals, uh, making things happen, making big offers to AI researchers, rebuilding the team, bringing in Alex Wang, Natt Freriedman, Daniel Gross, bunch of heavy hitters, um, and, uh, they already build massive data centers. Uh, they have a huge
6:04
Uh, they have a huge surface area to distribute AI, uh, consumer experiences.
6:08
If they come up with new ones, they have, you know, billions of users, they can they can, you know, put some, you know, hey, try this thing and maybe they'll get a bunch of users from it if it's good.
6:16
Um uh and then semi semi analysis also just one month ago laid out like a much more detailed bullc case for MSL in particular.
6:25
It was interesting uh because I was always optimistic about okay they have a lot of data from Instagram.
6:32
They have a lot of images they'll do a great image model like the image editing will be the best in class.
6:37
Uh they they can finally like kill Cap Cut with their edits app which is great.
6:42
Uh, and when I think about you're taking an image, you're taking a video, you have a bunch of videos from a trip, you want to edit all that together for some Instagram story or Instagram reel.
6:50
Uh, reals editing is its own skill, its own talent.
6:55
It's not available to everyone.
6:57
A lot of like family friends of mine will use Instagram and they'll just post a picture on stories.
7:01
They're not doing edited cinematic reels.
7:03
But with AI, you could potentially get someone from, oh, you took a bunch of video.
7:07
Some of it's horizontal, some of it's vertical, some of it's sort of cropped wrong, some of it's color.
7:12
>> Turn that into some brain wrap for [laughter] >> you could just throw it right here in this trough.
7:17
>> Yes, >> adding those programmatically.
7:20
Uh, no, you actually could. You actually could.
7:24
Um, and so and so I I was optimistic about that.
7:25
And then obviously we talked to Eric Seford about uh just the gem model and how AI can immediately move the needle on ad monetization, targeting, all of that.
7:33
So there were lots of reasons to be optimistic.
7:35
semi- analysis laid out this more detailed bull case and they said that there was this interesting detail that maybe was getting missed which was that uh by uh recording the screens of every Meta employee which is very controversial and bold but actually ripping that band-aid off and just saying hey we're we're an AI training company now and everyone's going to be recording their screens and their flows and all how all their work gets done.
8:00
They basically got like a frontier leading AI data labeling company for free.
8:06
I mean they took a you know PR hit for it.
8:08
Had to answer some questions but in general like the volume of tasks the volume of quality data that's coming from that workforce now is on the order of a scale.
8:18
Meror Handshake etc surge and so uh they just get that more or less for free.
8:24
Obviously Meta's lawyers are great.
8:27
Meta's researchers are great.
8:29
Meadow's finance team is great.
8:30
So if you're if you're getting all of that, it's equivalent to hiring a really talented person to do a training task. >> Yes. Yes. And yes and no.
8:38
I think I think a lot of the data that that the surges and merkors are creating is much more specialized. Yeah.
8:46
>> And I think there's just a lot of noise coming out of that data.
8:48
They also have like rolled some or maybe most of the program back.
8:52
I think there was >> so much push back.
8:55
>> You can pause it for 15 seconds once a day.
8:57
No, no, I think you can pause it for like half an hour, an hour, uh, if you want to go get a nice scroll in at work.
9:03
[laughter] But I mean, that's on brand.
9:06
If you're like, "Yeah, I was scrolling reals. I work at Meta." You know, why not? >> Testing. I was hunting for bugs. >> Yeah, your honor. >> For sure. For sure.
9:14
Um, but uh, yeah, I I I I think there are some there are some employees who are just fully excluded because they work on proprietary things that they don't want leaking into the training data whatsoever.
9:24
Uh, there's a whole bunch of nuance there.
9:26
There was these funny like leaked messages from Bos being like, "If you're saving time with AI, don't take more vacation days.
9:32
Like, go ask your parents." >> What was that? >> What was that line?
9:34
Like, ask your parents if it's a good strategy every time you talk to your boss to ask for more time off.
9:40
>> It's a It's a good point.
9:41
>> So, it was a really good point.
9:43
>> It's a really good point.
9:43
But the timing was funny cuz over the weekend, Zach had a UFC fighter in Tahoe and they're just like on this like, you know, onwater octagon.
9:54
You can tell there's like, you know, all all of Zuck's like security boats around it and they're just like fighting like, you know, wrestling or whatever. >> Let's pull this up.
10:02
Zuck busy fighting with Morab in Lake Tahoe while his execs tell employees not to take vacations thanks to AI.
10:09
>> I think I've seen enough after this.
10:09
I think he's ready for the octagon. >> He's looking good.
10:12
What are those leg braces that you got on?
10:15
Is that >> Those are for like they're effectively gloves for your knees. >> Oh, okay. Okay.
10:19
So you don't get your shins bashed up or something. >> Yeah, you don't. Okay, that's cool.
10:23
Well, anyway, uh, so following up on the op-ed ad that Mark Zuckerberg dropped in the in the payw wall street Journal section, which was a little bit ironic because he's saying it's for everyone.
10:33
Yeah, I will be abundant and free except for this article.
10:35
Well, now you can go read a more lengthy version of his thesis for free, uh, not paywalled on Meta's corporate blog effectively.
10:42
Meta's corporate blog effectively. uh you know I don't even think you need to log into any Facebook property to get access to this but uh it's a 6,500word encyclical the Wall Street Journal called it like it's a paper uh bull uh on the AI future high level AI it's for
11:01
everyone turns out it's for everyone >> who >> that's what he's saying but it's good it's an anti-permanent underclass message um which comes which is good it's just good from a comm's perspective to lay out a more optimistic uh philosophy here uh and it also seems seems to be borne out by the data in the short term. Uh you're not seeing any
11:17
Uh you're not seeing any like crazy displacements in the economy.
11:22
Uh and so uh this comes from like a place of strength that's like backed up and it's also just a very optimistic uh correct version of the piece.
11:29
He takes a shot at fear-based marketing uh early on in the piece.
11:34
He says still it's surprising that the discourse from many developing AI is so filled with doom.
11:38
I do not understand why anyone who believes that AI will eliminate most jobs and much of humanity's relevance would rush to build that future.
11:47
The notion that AI is so dangerous that the only safe path is an extreme concentration of power inherent isn't seems inherently problematic.
11:58
Historically, hoping that an absolute power will benev benevolently provide for humanity if sufficiently enlightened has not led us to safe or positive outcomes. What do you think?
12:12
>> Do you want to read a little bit more before I >> Well, uh, so I mean my my take on that was basically that uh so he's framing this as uh I don't understand why anyone who believes in AI would try and become like the emperor and the dictator of AI and I I understand it.
12:26
Uh you know uh it's funny that he's like sort of playing dumb here.
12:30
Uh because uh extreme concentration of power is awesome if you're the one that has the power.
12:35
Uh like I don't see you have to imagine that most dictators living in other countries aren't like oh I would kill just to be like a normal American citizen.
12:45
No it's like yeah it sucks for the citizenry.
12:49
>> Also this is coming from a guy who has you know is is >> effectively a monopoly more like a duopoly.
12:57
Um yeah >> and uh has enjoyed the benefits of you know extreme concentration of of um at least users. >> Yeah.
13:07
>> And social media activity. Yeah.
13:07
Um I I came away from this um >> first first there are there are three very concrete proposals that I think are good uh and then we can go into some on what what's downstream of it.
13:19
So, uh, he there's some handwavy parts about the future and how things will align in the future, uh, that are sort of just guesses about how the future will play out in my opinion.
13:28
Um, but there's some really solid concrete proposals in here that I thought were awesome.
13:32
Uh, one, he calls out that in Richland Parish, Louisiana, where Meta is building a large data center, teachers received a $50,000 bonus this year because of the increased tax revenue from their investment there.
13:45
Uh the superintendent told Meta that teachers are now moving there from across the country and he believes it will become one of the nation's best school districts.
13:53
Uh there's been a lot of skepticism about money actually flowing from AI companies to citizens because a lot of times money just goes into the government and then it gets like squirreled away into weird projects that different you know developers can like pull from and the money just sort of disappears.
14:09
this feels like a pretty linear track from like data center built per dollars in in citizens pockets. That's very very good.
14:19
I I like how that played out.
14:19
He also said that uh Meta's data centers are designed to be among the most water efficient in the world.
14:25
We are committing to being water positive which is a frame uh like a term that I hadn't heard before but I think is a good one.
14:32
So what that means is they will restore more water than they use in the waterheds that they operate and the goal is by 2030 to be net water positive.
14:40
And in areas with high water stress, the goal is to restore 2% of the water that they use.
14:47
And so I think that's good.
14:50
Obviously there's been a lot of uh you know it's been a bit of a quagmire on the water issue because there was that um calculation error that people got way wrong.
14:57
They thought the data centers were using way more water than they were.
15:00
And so a lot of tech people just sort of wrote it off as like ah I don't even need to address it because it's misinformation.
15:05
But of course it's a resource.
15:07
It's important to address it appropriately.
15:08
And I think this messaging does a good job of laying out like okay yes like it might not be that much of an issue but if it's not that much of an issue then you can deal with it pretty easily and we're going to deal with it. So here's our plan. Yeah.
15:19
Um on electricity they were a little bit less a little bit softer.
15:24
the the language is just we we help keep electric electricity prices low by building our own energy generating infrastructure wherever we invest.
15:34
This ensures that not only are we consuming energy that could uh we are not consuming energy that could have gone to the local communities but in some cases we even we even supply a surplus of lowcost energy back to the communities.
15:46
We think this is an important investment principle for sustainability um that in some cases is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.
15:52
Uh ideally you would wind up I think a lot of people would want to see like uh oh yes in every case when you build a data center you bring enough power that the price of energy does not increase in the local community. Um but good direction.
16:08
He does call out nuclear energy in a really interesting way. He shares this stat.
16:12
Countries like China are are bringing online one gigawatt of nuclear capacity every other week which is insane.
16:21
[laughter] and he says, uh, so we'll need to accelerate building of both energy and data centers to remain competitive.
16:27
I thought this was a good framing and good reminder of how slow we are because we bring on one gawatt of nuclear energy like every couple decades and they're doing it like every two weeks.
16:38
Uh, and so uh, uh, good good to see that.
16:42
And then also Meta's been spending on nuclear power, making commitments.
16:46
All of them are longdated.
16:48
there's a lot of regulatory hurdles, but uh he is putting his money where his mouth is in that regard, which I thought was good.
16:53
Um and then of course the news is also paired with uh some real action from Meta.
16:58
They're opening the weights of Muse Glimmer, a 30 billion par parameter dense model that can run locally along with a plan to release the weights to Muse Spark 1.
17:08
2, their latest foundation model.
17:11
Uh makes sense from a business perspective, I think, to ramp adoption.
17:14
Uh there was a lot that was going on like the llama ecosystem and you could imagine that you you you download the weights to musepark 1. 2 too. Fine-tune it. You're pretty happy. You're like, "Ah, okay.
17:25
Yeah, let me get on the on the hype on the on the API plan as well."
17:29
Um, and also it's you can imagine that there's businesses that want to cut costs but don't want to use a foreign model.
17:36
That definitely exists for a variety of reasons.
17:38
So, this is a good option there.
17:40
Uh, and then it also just disentangles the geopolitical discussion from the safety discussion.
17:46
So if you're talking to someone who has a strong opinion about open source one way or the other, you can you can just divide the discussion into okay, how do you feel about Muspark 1. 2?
17:54
Is that too dangerous to release? Is this a safety issue?
17:58
Because it shouldn't be a distillation issue and it shouldn't be a uh like a geopolitical issue.
18:02
So you can narrow it down just to are you are you okay with uh strong powerful you know AI being in the hands of just random people. Yeah. Anyway, don't mind.
18:14
>> Anyways, uh >> first before you react, let me tell you about Figma. Agents meet the canvas.
18:18
Your AI agents can now create and modify your Figma files with design system context.
18:24
>> Uh anyways, I think I think a lot of the stuff in here is like great and directionally correct.
18:28
I think uh it was good that they tried to ground it in some concrete actions.
18:36
uh he does come away as the uh it seems like they've chosen to position him as the the pickme >> AI uh lab leader, right?
18:44
Uh he's saying uh if you're not familiar, pick me is an internet slang term for someone who tries too hard to get validation, attention, or approval.
18:56
>> And uh that is certainly what he's doing.
18:59
I think there's an incredible irony that like he I think on Friday of last week is having to uh u go through this like basically a billion dollar settlement for causing harm at scale with uh all of their all of their other products. Yeah.
19:15
>> And then ultimately uh I still don't think that >> he has or like MSL has any type of cohesive vision or strategy. Right?
19:25
They were doing open source.
19:29
>> We were excited with the Manis thing.
19:29
We were like, "Oh, this makes sense.
19:32
There's like deploy an agent within your Instagram account.
19:34
There's a lot that you could do there, but that never really came >> fruition."
19:38
You know, so so they were doing open source, then they're getting cooked and then >> they stop and then now they're back and the first thing they released was Meta Vibes, which is like kind of what you would expect them to release, but obviously got a horrible reaction. Yeah.
19:55
>> Uh wasn't world positive at all. Wasn't personal. super intelligence.
19:57
It was slop intelligence.
20:00
>> Um, >> it's kind of fun.
20:01
I like that it had music integrated.
20:02
Like I like that you could go and pick a real song from the library and then basically make a music video based on it. Yeah.
20:10
I just think like very much uh >> very much too soon I think for Mark to be like the good guy like tech leader where >> I just don't think he has like people's like his brand got so much better over the last few years when he was just doing the UFC thing
20:28
>> and wakeboarding and all that kind of stuff but you it's too early to be trying to parlay that into like I can be trusted with >> Do you think he needs to put points on the board or do you think he needs to move the needle before he can actually uh take a victory lap here. >> I think I think uh I think he's trying
20:42
>> I think I think uh I think he's trying to move the needle, he needs to be more focused on getting some points on the board.
20:48
Um because open sourcing a model that isn't a frontier model >> is just like okay like like uh I don't like knowing how commercial this team is, I don't think they would open source or or open uh make the model open weights if they felt like there was going to be exceptional demand for it. Mhm.
21:08
>> Um, and I think overall like Mark standing up and saying like, "Hey, I want to be the leader of world positive AI probably hurts AI's public perception even more." >> Um, >> yeah.
21:21
Bernie Sanders now, right? He was included in that. >> Yeah. Yeah.
21:24
Which is amaz which is amazing for >> for >> for Meta MSL. >> Yeah.
21:31
>> To be included in that group. >> Yeah.
21:33
Like you would think that like um was deep not or Elon >> Elon and Deep Mind were not included Elon was so that was just because there there were the three cyber incidents.
21:43
Oh, >> and so I mean people have been you know alleging that maybe the meta >> you know cyber incident was maybe you know somewhat not as real as other ones >> to be included but >> yeah anyway so so I don't come away with
21:56
this like I think he has he has no confidence from the market on the strategy >> uh he >> still has not actually explained I think in a compelling way what their what their product vision is they're coming out with with a coding harness. They're
22:12
They're coming out with coding models.
22:14
They're also doing open source.
22:18
>> Yeah, >> there's whispers of them, you know, getting into the, you know, becoming a neocloud.
22:24
It's just like uh I think as I I can I can see why shareholders and employees just continue to be deeply frustrated >> that the coding harness thing would be it feels like it would be much more believable from Microsoft. Like we own GitHub.
22:38
We were first in GitHub copilot. Yeah.
22:40
Nat Fre Friedman's not here anymore, but we have a really strong relationship with OpenAI for the models and Azure in the enterprise.
22:47
We are going to make a run at this.
22:50
Seriously, and they have a better strategy.
22:52
I I I like the strategy more, but uh but but it's it's it's a really really crazy pivot to go from social media to the enterprise. >> Yeah.
23:01
And ultimately, it's a lot of words from someone who I don't believe has any real vision or strategy.
23:06
Like at least when Daario comes out with an essay, this is someone who is undeniably a visionary, right?
23:12
Has has made a bunch of calls >> correctly.
23:15
And so when he says something they >> uh I think it I think it means some.
23:19
But I think that uh >> yeah, the product strategy so far just feels like throwing slop at a trough [laughter] >> maybe.
23:31
>> But uh defend it, John. >> Um >> steelman. >> What is the steelman?
23:34
I mean, the steelman is the is uh basically the steelman is like this could go the deep mind route where they get too uh they they get a little bit too there's too much tension between the various corporate organizations and the nightmare scenario would be like the reals team at Instagram saying like we need the compute for reals and ad monetization and that putting tension with the researchers.
24:02
So the researchers are saying, "Hey, that new data center looks amazing.
24:06
We want to train some amazing model or we want to do some cheap inference."
24:09
And the and the ad team and the reals team says, "Hey, we really got to keep the lights on over here."
24:18
And so that tension just keeps uh butdding heads against each other and they can't move as smoothly as some of the pure play labs.
24:25
Um, at the same time there is I like this Bos quote about like you know uh Bos recently told employees that any extra time freed up by AI should not be used for vacation.
24:38
Instead it could it should go towards building cooler stuff at Meta.
24:40
Like you have so many users, so much data, so many different product surface areas.
24:49
It's clear that we're not at the end of history in terms of what you can do on your phone, what you can do in these apps, and there are really delightful experiences that we run into all the time.
25:00
Like Sunno is a really cool consumer product.
25:02
We had the CEO of whatnot on like that's getting a bunch of traction.
25:05
Um there are there are things that you should be able to build faster, leverage the current uh technology stack more efficiently, and then also like add AI features to actually bring those to consumers at scale.
25:18
scale. like when they launched their uh AI image model, I was I was like why can't they just like uh when you open Instagram say hey we've pre-generated a Studio Giblly version of your latest post or your or your Instagram profile do you want to share on your story like
25:37
those little like productled growth hacks that would be compute intensive you'd have to you have to inference all >> it's got a lot of compute >> yeah you got a lot of compute but actually >> at the time at the time that there's whispers of selling ute they're also buying ultra long-term contracts. Um Um >> yeah. >> Yeah.
25:53
So, so you know I think uh watching the the the social network was like formative on all of us.
26:04
>> Zuck is is a legend in his own way.
26:07
>> But it's just like push putting this out while it's coming out like less than two months ago that you're working on a gambling integration >> on Instagram. Mhm.
26:17
>> Like please, it doesn't make uh there's no >> Yeah, but you could say >> there's no there's no strategy.
26:23
And then the other irony of this, the thing that stood out to me is he said, "Still, it is surprising that the discourse from many developing AI is so filled with doom.
26:31
I do not understand why anyone who believes that AI will eliminate most of human most jobs and much of humanity's relevant would rush to build that."
26:38
The AI doom over the last two weeks has been around these loss of control incidents which are which are serious >> and and real.
26:47
And so to stand up there and be like actually guys nothing to worry about.
26:54
>> I got this AI is awesome. >> Yeah. [laughter] Yeah.
26:56
And also the >> don't worry about it >> like like the >> the birth rate might be collapsing and I might have something to do with it but don't worry about it.
27:05
I mean there is there is another side to it to the to like the if you believe in doom you shouldn't work in in doom prevention is like oh you yeah your your house burned down as a kid now you're a firefighter. Isn't that ironic?
27:20
It's like no like you're you're actually working to prevent the bad thing that you were affected by or you're we worried about like if you're worried about wildfires and then you go and work on wildfire prevention that's actually fine.
27:31
That makes a lot of sense. That tracks logically.
27:34
So it it it's it's not that much of a red flag that someone would be like, I'm really worried about the way AI will go, so I need to work in that industry and build something that prevents the bad outcome from happening.
27:48
Uh it it it like like it or not, it's like it is logically consistent.
27:51
uh even even if sometimes it can be seen as like a path to regulatory capture sometimes or a path to you know like like actually might wind up accidentally getting the negative outcome because people get too scared or something like that or or overvalues you.
28:06
There's a million negative outcomes that can string from this.
28:09
But >> and yeah, part of this is like >> we've we've met Zach multiple times.
28:15
We've had great conversations with him. I like him. I like Bos. I like Adam.
28:17
I like a lot of people over at MSL. >> Yeah.
28:22
Um, but this whole strategy continues to confuse.
28:28
>> It's deeply unfocused.
28:32
It's deeply mimedic >> and it doesn't seem like it's going to get any better anytime soon.
28:39
>> Well, I mean, it'll all hinge on the next model and also and also like does the Neo cloud strategy work because people were skeptical about Elon getting into AI.
28:48
They're like XAI really like this deal.
28:51
this deal. so highly valued the models aren't frontier and now you know semi- analysis last Friday put out this insane bold case where they're going to make a trillion dollars in a couple years and I I don't know like like yeah it's it's a
29:05
really really bold claim to think that they will be able to scale that fast but like on the current revenue base it's working like they have customers that are happy and deploying uh models and and when you're good at building data centers that's a huge advantage. There's
29:18
There's a lot of there's a lot of companies that aren't and there's a lot of there's a lot of business to be done. >> Yeah.
29:23
Part of it is that I just don't I don't know how much time uh I don't know how much time Meta actually has.
29:27
how much time Meta actually has. like they have a lot all of their best talent is on these like you know multiund or billion dollar comp packages and there's gonna everyone in there is going to have a number where if they truly care about >> AI >> they probably will want to go to a
29:45
company that has a more coherent strategy around AI and work with other talented people that aren't just there because they're getting these like nine figure or even bigger contracts and so we're about a year into like the major talent rates right >> what happens if the topups They're 10 billion plus. [laughter] So, we want
30:00
[laughter] So, we want you. That's my concern. They might have to be. They might have to be.
30:04
I don't know because eventually those people are just going to say like, "Look, I actually want to go back and work with my friends." >> Yeah, maybe. >> Um, and uh, anyways.
30:13
>> Oh, well, let me tell you about Railway.
30:15
Railway is the all-in-one intelligent cloud provider.
30:17
Use your favorite agent to deploy web apps, servers, databases, and more while Railway automatically takes care takes care of scaling, monitoring, and security.
30:24
Uh, the Wall Street Journal had a huge scoop, huge, huge piece.
30:31
Andrew Zucker writes in the lifestyle section, "This summer's hottest arm candy is a private equity boyfriend.
30:38
Reese Witherspoon, Nicole Kidman, and Olivia Rodrigo are all hanging out with finance guys."
30:43
Um, Jordy chimed in on this. It was remarkable.
30:48
Every single person got Jord's joke.
30:51
I thought it was a little like inside baseball and you'd have to have more context to understand it, but it was like this rare weird scenario where everyone understood that you were joking.
31:02
And >> yeah, I didn't get any push back.
31:02
I didn't get called any names.
31:06
>> It almost would have been better if there was push back, but it was just uniform praise for your quote across everything.
31:12
Uh, now >> a lot of people were saying brave.
31:14
Yeah, >> finally someone said it. >> Um, yeah.
31:17
So, I don't know that there was a um it's like you take a lot of celebrities that are based in New York. Yeah.
31:26
>> At least a few of them are going to end up dating >> some people in in finance.
31:29
So, I don't know how much of a of a of a real trend this is or if this is new or not, but [laughter] it certainly got >> uh the people going.
31:40
Should we start maybe with what Mr. Wonderful said? >> Oh, yeah. What did he say?
31:45
Um he said, "If you live in a celebrity bubble, party after party with the same people, the same 25 people, life gets really boring." >> Yeah.
31:55
>> When you end up with a private equity guy, your life gets far more interesting.
32:00
>> Um so he I don't think was uh rage baiting. >> No.
32:04
>> I think [laughter] uh so maybe that's how some people >> uh would have would have taken my quote out of out of context.
32:13
>> Um and then what did I say?
32:13
The piece centers around >> I almost don't want to read that quote out loud, but you should you should read uh you should read my quote.
32:22
>> Well, first let me tell everyone about console.
32:24
Console builds AI agents that automate 70% of IT HR and finance support giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets.
32:33
Uh your quote that burned up the internet uh was whether they want to admit it or not, many women have always been attracted to bad boys and risktakers, said Jordy Hayes, co-host of the technology industry talk show TVPN.
32:46
I can't think of any archetype of man that fits that description more than today's today than capital allocators that put it all on the line every day in the markets.
32:57
And I like that your screenshot included the the uh the scroll wheel showing that you're you're hunting around for this.
33:06
>> Uh and then so I posted this >> and I said I weighed in on one of the defining stories of our time.
33:11
[laughter] >> And so >> yeah, >> putting such a silly caption Yeah.
33:18
>> above a silly story and a silly quote, I just >> I just assumed that it would um that it would be quite obvious that it was that it was satire.
33:26
But let's pull up uh let's pull up this uh 4 by uh 2 by two and we can we can go through it some of the different reactions. So uh one top left.
33:38
Let's give it up for the elite quadrant. This is all of you.
33:40
[applause] >> I mean uh zoom out zoom out a little bit. A little bit more.
33:45
This is people that understand the joke. Zoom up uh or go up.
33:50
>> And people that love it.
33:50
These you guys were saying we get it and we get you.
33:54
And that made me feel really great. >> Now go down.
33:57
This was also a um powerful part of the of the people that were supporting it.
34:04
Um people that uh people that don't understand the joke.
34:10
>> Well, there's some people >> people that support it. Yeah.
34:11
There's some And there was a lot there was a shocking amount of people.
34:14
Um >> like this is >> Can you guys just zoom fully out and and leave it? Yeah.
34:19
So there this was people that love it and people that don't understand the joke.
34:22
And I just want to say bless bless their hearts.
34:24
Uh they don't get it but they vibe with it.
34:28
>> Uh and then and then we had some respectable haters.
34:30
People that that hated it um but they they they get they get the joke but they just hate that they do.
34:38
And then and then there was the bottom right um which uh was uh was tearing it up in the replies.
34:45
Loud wrong and very confident. >> That's great.
34:49
Well, but uh well, we should take this and I thought it was it was a fun story.
34:54
>> We should we should take people through this article a little bit more because >> uh the piece centers on Oliver Harmon of Search Like Capital.
34:59
Of course, everyone knows him.
35:01
Uh but he is apparently dating Reese Witherspoon.
35:03
And so, uh, just to get everyone to up to speed, Witherspoon, uh, is an Oscar-winning American actress who became famous in the 1990s and 2000s, including films, uh, like Election, Pleasantville, Legally Blonde, Walk the Line.
35:18
Uh, so now you should be up to speed on her.
35:23
Uh, Michael Rinstein, of course, of Private Equity from Regent, uh, is dating someone named Nicole Kidman, which, uh, our audience might not be familiar with.
35:31
She's actually an Australianborn actress whose career stretches across prestige cinema, blockbuster films.
35:37
Seems like she's been really successful.
35:39
So, good to see her profiled alongside Michael Ryinstein of uh Private Equity from Region.
35:45
>> I think a lot of a lot of the people that that watch TVPN Yeah.
35:47
were reading that article to to learn about >> these celebrities. Yeah. Celebrities. Yeah.
35:53
It's a fascinating world that's it's just tucked behind, you know, so much obscurity.
35:58
you don't hear about them if you're in the finance world.
36:00
And so, uh, good to see, uh, folks like that get, you know, some some some coverage and and really educate the audience.
36:10
>> Uh, no, it was a lot of fun over the weekend with the Wall Street Journal, people going back and forth.
36:14
Uh, uh, Joe, [laughter] Joe Weisenthal had the best the best take that, uh, this is the classic, uh, cynical pattern.
36:23
I think he said I think he's meaning cyclical pattern.
36:24
Back in the mid as there was a raft of stories about celebrities dating real estate executives and shipping heirs like Stavros Narcos and Paris Latis.
36:36
>> We got to find what all these guys have in common, John.
36:38
We got to find what what they have in common because they're working across so many different industries booming, right?
36:43
But what is the common ground?
36:46
>> The industry is booming.
36:47
>> Could it be something to do with their fee streams? >> Well, yeah. Well, no.
36:51
>> Well, yeah. Well, no. So someone had a much more uh nuanced take from this which was that uh celebrities are becoming uh like multiplatform multiddisciplinary there actually are multiple income streams and so this was not I I gave a quote too that they
37:07
didn't use but someone someone chimed in and said like yes a lot of these people are a lot of these celebrities are doing u much more complex deals uh starting brands starting companies building holding companies and so they actually wind up interacting acting with like the finance bros much more much more often. And it's not so much like, oh, you got
37:25
And it's not so much like, oh, you got set up with someone with money.
37:27
It's much more like, oh, you work on deals together and you talk about the same things.
37:32
Because when you're a celebrity at a certain level, yeah, you're going on set and filming a movie for a couple weeks, >> but you're also talking about your all your your catalog, your royalty stream.
37:45
Royalties are often Yeah, they're often forever, right?
37:47
Um unlike uh unlike management fees with at some point or another >> at that uh revenue line comes to a close >> pulling the purse strings.
37:59
>> Anyway, let me tell you about the New York Stock Exchange.
38:00
Want to change the world?
38:01
Raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange.
38:03
Uh we have another story here that we should go through.
38:06
South Korea's AI boom is reshaping the dating market as engineers from Samsung and SKH Heinix become some of the country's most eligible bachelors.
38:17
According to the Wall Street Journal, engineers at the two semiconductor companies are increasingly being viewed alongside doctors, lawyers, and accountants as top marriage prospects.
38:26
Samsung employees are expected to receive average bonuses of roughly $400,000 this year.
38:31
While SKH Highix workers could average closer to $500,000, chip engineers have historically ranked below more traditional high status professions in South Korea's highly competitive marriage market.
38:44
But local matchmaking agencies now say that a gap has large that that gap has largely disappeared.
38:52
While the trend has become a recurring joke in Kore Korean pop culture and dating shows. Interesting.
38:56
Uh the newfound status is creating some awkward side effects.
39:00
Some engineers say they are reluctant guys. >> It's it's rough.
39:04
It's rough out there in Korea.
39:06
Uh some engineers say they are reluctant to reveal where they work on first dates because they worry potential partners may be more interested in their compensation than in them.
39:14
Others have increasingly started dating fellow chip industry employees instead.
39:19
Meeting someone in the fab. A real meat cute.
39:25
you you're carrying a tray of wafers bump into someone and it's love at first sight.
39:29
You look up as as your as your car as [clears throat] your scattered HBM is being >> It is very funny they included they just included a picture of of a young woman here that says Kim Young a photographer in soul laments not having any contacts at chipmakers [laughter] like >> wow really really >> framing her as part of the problem.
39:50
Well, well, the photo credit is her, so she must have posted this on social media or something and then the uh and then the the journal got a hold of it.
39:57
[laughter] It's a fun one.
39:57
Uh anyway, the other the other big story is that an AI assistant in Australia hacked a gym's booking system on its own after being given the simple task of reserving a class in what is believed to be the country's first known autonomous cyber attack by an AI agent. Naughty, naughty indeed.
40:19
Uh, funny, in college, I built a system that would register for classes automatically, but it was just a Python for loop that would just refresh the page when the classes would become available because they would go online at like 7 a. m.
40:32
and I wanted to sleep in just lazy bones mode.
40:34
Um, and I think I think there's a story about Mark Zuckerberg doing a similar thing, sort of like hacking the the the the admission system or some sort of class registration system.
40:45
But now with AI agents, you can just have the AI agent do it yourself. Anyone can. It's been democratized. Everyone can sleep in.
40:50
Uh this is >> Yeah, I think I think Run was saying like the the tennis court booking software in SF is going to be the most like battle merchant.
40:59
>> It'll be like the NSA.
40:59
You won't be able to break into it.
41:01
So >> SF tennis reservation system will become one of the most hardened softwares on the planet of Earth. >> I believe it. I believe it.
41:07
So earlier this year, Andrew Bird, who's the head of AI at Aphinda, used an AI agent powered by Opus 4.
41:13
6 6 to book a morning class at his gym.
41:16
Instead of simply filling out the online form, the agent discovered a vulnerability in the gym software that allowed it to reserve classes weeks or months earlier than customers were normally permitted.
41:26
So, you could go in and book your class for two months out even though by default the web interface would restrict you to just, hey, we only want you booking this week.
41:37
Uh, the agent went further though, according to this post, after Andrew asked whether it was possible to move him higher on a wait list.
41:44
The AI discovered that the booking system did not properly verify who was allowed to cancel reservations.
41:50
And so, without being explicitly told to, it removed another person from the wait list, moving Andrew from fourth to third place.
41:58
Andrew immediately asked the AI to reverse the action, but the agent said it was unable to restore the other customer's reservation.
42:05
Now, there's some back and forth on this uh on how real this is because the the actual post that went up is has no longer live.
42:12
I had to find it in the wayback machine, but it's been reported on uh by ABC News, I believe, in in in uh in Australia. ABC. net. auu.
42:27
And >> so, you're saying 100% factual if that's >> Yeah, it's it's qu it's a question like you could also be doing a little bit of content marketing.
42:34
It's an interesting story.
42:35
you might have helped it a little bit.
42:37
All these things are sort of gray areas, but uh it's certainly a glimpse into sort of like what is possible in the future, especially with these longtail uh SAS platforms that probably don't even think that they need to be hardened because who on earth is going to deploy a a country of geniuses in a data center to get a to get a gym membership or or a gym reservation?
42:58
But now, uh everyone can. So, it's happening.
43:03
Um and uh it it's another it's another data point.
43:05
Um Greg Brockman uh is uh announcing that he's releasing a new model at OpenAI, GPT 5.
43:11
6 Cyber, and expanding Daybreak to help put Frontier intelligence in defender's hands.
43:18
This is sort of the the reaction to these types of longtail events.
43:20
It should become easier for companies to spin up an agent to help them harden their systems.
43:27
uh especially if you're giving out uh tennis reservations in San Francisco because those will be the hot ticket.
43:34
Um anyway, >> Tyler Cowan uh has a post this morning. >> Yeah.
43:39
What do you say >> just past midnight says, "I am seeing so many uh so much doom and at least severe worries due to the OpenAI hugging face incident and related stories.
43:47
But virtually all of these I find under argued to say the least.
43:51
So I have a simple request.
43:53
If you are worried and wish to persuade the doubters, try the methods of science.
43:57
He's science checking them.
43:59
I would like to see the following.
44:01
Your outline of how, say, 2 or 3 years from now, we might estimate the additional cyber security costs from all the AI breakins.
44:07
I'm convinced that the number is not zero, but give me your method, please.
44:12
>> If it helps, here's an estimate of past cyber costs done by top economists.
44:14
your current finan a numerical estimate of what those costs might end up being.
44:18
Of course, to be tested against what actually happens over time.
44:21
Obviously, you can do this for a few regulatory safety scenarios.
44:27
There's one simple way to prove yourself largely correct, albeit with a lag.
44:31
Three, a list of what stocks or other assets you have shorted.
44:35
Now, this is a this is an important part.
44:37
Obviously, if your answer to number two is sufficiently low, you could answer here zero as I would as as I would do.
44:45
I expect cost, but not so high that we cannot muddle through and have expected positive stock returns.
44:53
>> This would all help to make the discourse more scientific and less like an extended exercise in personal anxiety management.
44:59
If it is all so important, surely this exercise is worth the effort. >> I I like it.
45:06
A lot of people have um yeah, we're in this funny moment right now where there's there's people with no exposure to AI, long or short, >> that are very very confident about certain positions, but won't actually take a position, right?
45:22
Um and they have various reasons for that.
45:27
>> Um and then >> and I and I I do think this would be I do think this would be quite helpful.
45:33
The thing with situational awareness that was so awesome is he just like called his shot and he invested against that extremely aggressively.
45:40
>> And so I would like to see I would like to see some of the the AI bears do their own version of situation if they're so smart >> do their own version of situational awareness.
45:51
>> Um even if they're trying to like hyperstition a crash, right?
45:55
>> Um >> I mean Michael Bur was doing that for a while for sure.
45:57
Cassandra, >> what whatever.
45:59
But I think maybe timed it a little bit wrong.
46:02
I'm not exactly sure what happened with the fund.
46:04
Um, I saw a funny I saw a funny post that was uh showing a screenshot of radiation pills being sold to true preppers.
46:12
So in the >> I don't even think true preppers these were here. I have the post here. >> Post. >> Yeah, pull it up. Okay. >> I put it in there. >> Oh, okay.
46:24
They're selling Millennial branded emergency radiation exposure medication pills you take when nuclear war starts to increase your odds of survival with buy now pay later options.
46:35
>> Yes, but economically that's exactly what you want to do with a doomsday prepping product.
46:40
You want as much debt as possible because you assume that the apocalypse is going to come.
46:45
Clara is gonna not going to come after you.
46:47
Of course, you don't want to pay with cash up front. You want to be max debt.
46:51
Like this is actually extremely >> highly leveraged preppers. There's got to be a few. There's got to be a few. >> Yes. Yes.
47:00
You should have a ranch in Argentina on a 50-year mortgage right now.
47:04
Like that's that's the correct way to to financially ride out the apocalypse because the the bank's not going to come from an American financial institution >> from anybody anybody who's not going to be around to collect postapocalypse.
47:18
Like this is extremely consistent.
47:20
Although it is ironic and funny and I and I understand the joke, but uh this is actually exactly what you want to be doing if you believe an apocalypse is imminent.
47:28
You want to be max levered and and and max debt because no one's going to come back and collect it, right? So funny.
47:36
Uh anyway, uh yeah, a lot of people are pushing back on this post being like, well, I my my doom scenario is so extreme I won't be around to collect the short position, so it's not worth doing.
47:47
Uh and that is a little faith in in our financial system. [laughter] Come on. >> Yeah.
47:54
That the asteroid comes and you're like, "Yes, my puts are paying out." >> Uh, no. I I don't know.
47:58
It's a reasonable but but like unless you're full full doom.
48:02
Like, yeah, you should be able to express this as a bad >> Okay, quick pause. >> What's up?
48:08
>> Because I we we need to uh say some kind words to Tyler.
48:12
Last week, >> what happened?
48:14
>> Earlier in the week, >> Yeah.
48:15
I made some snide comments about Tyler's software that we used to run the show. >> Oh yeah.
48:21
>> He logged in and [laughter] shipped an entirely new app, a native app.
48:23
And this is our first time using it on the show today. It is incredible. Snappy.
48:30
[laughter] It's well thought through. It's very easy. It's very easy to use.
48:33
This is my first time using it. No, no hiccups. >> It's really good.
48:38
>> Um so so fingers crossed. But you cooked. You cooked. >> Absolutely cooked.
48:41
And uh tell us about the architecture.
48:43
It's uh do you know what programming language was used?
48:48
>> Um [laughter] so I I think it's Swift, right?
48:50
So it's it's native Mac app. >> It's native Mac app.
48:51
We've been using a Chrome extension, a browser plugin.
48:54
Uh it's been a little slow, a little clunky, but we got it's not even an Electron app. So call John Gruber.
49:00
We're getting a pat on the back for going native native. I got the DMG. I installed it myself.
49:07
And uh actually Tyler was over my shoulder.
49:10
He helped me help to install it.
49:13
Tyler was burning the midnight oil.
49:13
I think one of my comments just pushed him over the edge and he locked in.
49:21
>> He restored his honor. >> Well done, Tyler.
49:24
>> Um, SpaceX is up uh >> 13%.
49:29
>> Uh, in the past 5 days, >> almost certainly in part due to semi analysis, >> major major bullish updates, crazy.
49:36
Um I uh yeah not uh they've been contrarian lately right?
49:46
>> Yeah totally >> with Meta now now SpaceX.
49:49
>> So the headline here SpaceX turns a compute company into eight quarter in eight quarters uh into a >> turns into a computers AI compute goes from nothing to 77% of run rate revenue and uh the the illustrative 10 gawatt path.
50:07
I mean he's really good at building data centers and uh they're they're predicting that uh that lots that Microsoft will be the largest offtaker uh open ananthropic will wind up doing deals with them.
50:19
Uh 500 billion in ARR for SpaceX and the number that was getting thrown around was a tr a trillion in ARR or something by 2030 something uh which is uh staggering staggering.
50:32
They're gonna have to rebrand it. Rebrand it though.
50:34
Landex because they're not going to space with this.
50:38
This is all built just on the ground.
50:40
I'm I'm pretty sure I'm pretty sure this is all pre-space data center.
50:45
Space data center is like is the act five or whatever we whatever act we're on the act two.
50:50
>> So landax or ground X but uh either way it's working and uh very very exciting to see.
50:56
Um yeah and Elon did say that that uh their internal projections which they are operating from uh get them to a trillion by 2030.
51:03
He said or we may be delusional.
51:07
>> Um and uh and yeah there there's certainly a lot of reasons uh a lot of reasons to be bullish.
51:13
There's certainly a lot of reasons to be skeptical, right?
51:16
You had um you know look at look at the way that he talked about uh the Cybert truck.
51:20
He said you know they were going to be selling hundreds of thousands of those units a year. Yeah.
51:25
>> Uh they've been selling units.
51:25
I actually ordered I ordered one. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's so crazy.
51:29
They don't have a six-seater, sevenseater cybert truck configuration.
51:32
Like it's just I I'm I'm I'm thinking about like a family.
51:37
You want one other kid to come with you and it's like, okay, back in the back in the extended wheelbase SUV or back in the minivan like >> Yeah.
51:48
>> Um >> I was thinking about it.
51:48
One of one of Elon's advantages building data centers is that he seems to not care about um like getting cancelled, right?
51:56
So, look at everything that's been happening in Memphis.
51:59
Like, you cannot imagine Satia, >> you can't imagine Zach going in there and and building their Memphis projects the way that they have, right?
52:07
It's been done >> uh they've done it, yeah, extremely aggressively.
52:12
The local community >> is not happy.
52:14
I'm sure they can figure out a way to work a lot of that out over time, but a lot of people just don't have the stomach to be effectively >> It's funny you're using the term stomach because uh the Wall Street Journal has an article here about Elon Musk's stomach.
52:32
First, whether you're long SpaceX, short SpaceX, do it on public investing for those that take it seriously.
52:37
They got stocks, options, bonds, crypto, treasuries, and more with great customer service.
52:41
So, uh, SpaceX may be a rocket company, but nowadays it feels more like a roller coaster, says Tim Higgins in the Wall Street Journal.
52:50
This past week alone, chief executive Elon Musk watched as its shares plummeted almost 14% in one day, which wasn't even the worst performance in SpaceX's short tenure as a publicly traded company.
53:00
By Friday, the shared had the shares had soared more than 20% from where they began the week.
53:05
Put another way, that was a more than $300 billion market value swing.
53:10
For most CEOs, that would be a vomit inducing ride for Musk.
53:16
It's a nagging reminder that he's back in grind mode having to deliver on all of his high-flying promises for SpaceX's performance.
53:23
Yeah, I mean, he does have the stomach for it and uh it does give a good uh good cover to the other hyperscalers.
53:30
This was a lot of the neocloud thesis for a while was that uh some of the neoclouds like a lot of the hyperscalers had made really really a aggressive uh environmental pledges that they were tied into and locked into because ESG funds had invested and if they go back on their ESG commitments then uh then those ESG investors would have to divest and the stock price could fall.
53:56
stock price could fall. But you all of a sudden like you had underwritten the whole ESG plan on the back of well we just do cloud storage for images and some ad recommendations and yeah we store people's docs in the cloud like this is going to be easy throw some
54:12
solar panels on the top you know build okay we'll build a custom chip to for the YouTube encoding algorithm like it's no big deal it's not going to use that much energy and then it's like artificial intelligence uses like a million times more resources for everything and so you have compute
54:27
scaling 3x every year now and as a result the question is like can the hyperscalers develop the new data centers internally or will they have to go to neoclouds and the SpaceX Neocloud sort of fits in there anyway what were you thinking about >> um here's the actual quote I was
54:44
referencing earlier Elon says no I meant actual revenue in the year 2030 itself not cumulative which would be high which would be a higher number of course it's always possible that we flounder along the way or are delusional but those are actual internal projections. Uh Ben was
54:56
Uh Ben was bringing up some some recent truth.
55:00
Um you know, pre-launch the the Cybert truck had over 1 million reservations, demand off the charts.
55:08
They were targeting a quarter million units a year once ramped by 2025.
55:14
>> Uh and in 2024, they sold 39,000 units. Not bad.
55:18
Uh but in 2025, they only sold 20,000.
55:21
So cumulative uh is under 70,000.
55:26
So the peak year was about 15% of the stated annual target.
55:28
I'm trying to get these numbers up.
55:30
I ordered a Cybert truck. I need the self-driving.
55:36
>> Yeah, self-driving is really really good.
55:37
And I am getting more and more bullish on Tesla's car business >> because last year >> there were so many reasons to be bearish.
55:46
But as we've like I've I've just talked with enough people in the automotive world now and none of them think that good self-driving is coming to any of their cars for like a very very long time.
55:58
>> Almost all of them think it's coming this century though. >> Yeah. This century. >> This century. >> This century.
56:02
Um, and so I think there's a lot of reasons for what it's worth to be uh bullish on the car business in the near >> Got to do some some more styles or something.
56:11
The reduction in the portfolio is so rough.
56:13
No convertible, no off-road vehicle, no SUV.
56:16
Like there's there's just so little that you like you you just get blocked into this like bland thing. But I don't know.
56:24
It worked with the iPhone, so who knows? Who knows?
56:27
Let me tell you about MongoDB.
56:28
What's the only thing faster than the AI market?
56:30
Your business on MongoDB.
56:32
Don't just build AI, own the data platform that powers it. Uh, Vogue World.
56:37
We got to talk about Vogue World. >> Here we go.
56:40
>> Vogue World is taking place in San Francisco this year.
56:42
Quote, "Vogue believes in celebrating cities and San Francisco is a city like none other," says Anna Winthor.
56:50
"Sfly really is a city [applause] like none other."
56:53
Emily Sunberg writes, "With one, two, three, four, five, six, seven periods, [laughter] which feels like a day."
57:00
SF wasn't going to be back until Anna said it's back. >> Yeah.
57:06
>> And so this is a bold bold statement. >> That's true.
57:09
>> Uh one of the most beautiful cities in the world. >> Mhm.
57:14
>> Grew up in the Bay Area, so it's kind of maybe I'm a little bit biased. >> Sure.
57:18
>> But it deserves it deserves the Vogue treatment.
57:21
For those not familiar, Vogue World uh will be this live stream event.
57:26
It's very, you know, theatrical.
57:26
There's going to be celebrations.
57:28
Um, and uh, I'm excited to see some of our favorite entrepreneurs and investors put on their best, >> the Patagonia vests and walking the runway in those.
57:39
>> Maybe that or or ditch the ditch the quiet luxury and go for some loud opulence. >> I like that. Yeah.
57:45
I mean, Jensen's got the leather jacket. He's looking good. Collect.
57:49
>> I could see I could see Jensen getting chedd up for this. So, >> yeah, maybe. Maybe.
57:53
What What What brand does he wear again? >> Tom Ford. >> Tom Ford jackets. Yeah, those are nice. Those are nice.
58:00
Uh yeah, we'll be >> This will be fun. We'll be there.
58:04
>> I wonder who >> and uh Yeah, I'm excited to cover it.
58:07
>> Yeah, it's going to be great.
58:08
>> Hopefully it's not the last.
58:08
[laughter] >> Just like we can never do this again. >> No. No.
58:16
I mean, >> the city has no aura.
58:19
>> The beauty of San Francisco, it really does have such a diverse community of you know, you have the Burning Man crowd, the VC crowd, the startup founders.
58:28
There's like there's all these different worlds.
58:29
There's the >> product managers, [laughter] >> the product managers, the product engineers, the quality assurance engineers, the quality assurance testers, the reinforcement learning engineering environment, pre-training and post- training.
58:42
These are the wild communities.
58:43
You want to hear from them both.
58:45
They have unique styles for sure.
58:46
You can you >> know, but but part of the the actual like tech has an insane amount of influence on fashion, right?
58:54
Like when you look at Instagram's impact on the world broadly, the whole world's starting to look the same in many ways because of Instagram styles >> globally are uh are starting to look more and more similar because Instagram connects everyone all the time.
59:12
>> So a taste maker >> around the world somewhere else in the world might be influencing your style even though you'll never in your life cross paths with them. >> Interesting. Interesting. Yeah.
59:20
Well, uh, there's a little bit more news from the situational awareness story.
59:24
Uh, first, David Saxs on the All-In podcast had a good take here.
59:30
Uh, a lot of people were saying like Leopold was using Forex leverage.
59:34
That was the number that was getting thrown around and and when I heard that, I thought it was he buys Micron and he buys uh he buys $40 billion of Micron with 10 billion of cash and 30 billion of debt.
59:50
And so he's 4x levered on that long semiconductor memory bet.
59:53
Uh it seems like it's a little bit more of 2x levered long, 2x levered short.
59:58
So you're a long short hedge fund, but both the long positions and the short positions are directionally the same trade because you're levered long Micron and you're levered short Adobe.
1:00:11
And so if the trade weakens, you get hurt in both directions.
1:00:15
And so it's the same effect, but I think it was just an interesting little piece of nuance.
1:00:21
>> Yeah, very interesting.
1:00:21
And and um yeah, just turn the risk up a lot.
1:00:24
The the the crazy thing is like if you look at what the actual what the AI companies, the labs are doing, the neolabs, pretty much every AI company is still using a lot of legacy software.
1:00:37
If you just talk to these teams, part of it's like, yeah, we could replace this thing this this product, but it's not a good use of engineering resources.
1:00:45
The the the bet against SAS is that one day it will be so easy that it is a good use of engineering resources because it, you know, you can create it quickly and it may maybe can self-maintain, >> but um >> and a lot of these are just like ensemble products like uh so we're having the founder and CEO of Neural Frames on.
1:01:04
It's an AI video generation platform.
1:01:06
If you watched our most feared lawyer music video for John Quinn, uh I generated the video using seance but through neural frames as like the harness.
1:01:17
Uh but even after generating it in neural frames, which has its own editor that's web- based that they were clearly able to vibe code very quickly. It works really well.
1:01:27
I still wound up installing Premiere Pro for the last step of melding a couple different uh renders together, getting it all sequenced out, doing the final touches.
1:01:38
And so there's a lot of these situations where you might have an agent that's doing a lot of interesting things and then yeah, you actually want the endpoint to be Salesforce or you want it to be Adobe.
1:01:47
And so you're still in that legacy platform which you know, you're like, ah, it's it's costing me 20 bucks a month, but whatever. Yeah, this one.
1:01:57
Uh, so there were two different video styles that you can do.
1:01:59
One that's him uh just not lip-syncing and just visual reference and and just an illustration of the story.
1:02:09
There's another version that you can have it render where the character sings along to the lyrics.
1:02:17
Now, it's pretty sloppy and it doesn't get it right all the time. Sometimes it nails it.
1:02:21
So, I only wanted to use the generated video where the lip sync was pretty good.
1:02:26
And so, for those, I I dialed it in and I edited those on top.
1:02:32
So, this this clip turned out pretty well.
1:02:34
Um, and the next one turned out pretty well, but there were lots of the lip-s sync videos under underelling it.
1:02:42
[laughter] >> I mean, it's still sloth. like it's all sloth.
1:02:44
But the but uh there were plenty of others that were like wildly wrong, like the wrong person singing or just like didn't match up at all.
1:02:51
And so I wanted to cut those out, use a little bit, blend it all together.
1:02:55
And and ultimately I want landed in Adobe Premiere again, you know, even though they have their own editor.
1:03:00
And so uh it was it was an interesting detail.
1:03:02
The other piece of the situational awareness story.
1:03:06
Do you want to move on or go back? >> Go for it.
1:03:08
I have one more post before our first guest. >> Okay, great.
1:03:11
So, uh, the other story is from Kate Clark, who is over at the Wall Street Journal now, uh, following the money.
1:03:18
And Kate Clark reported on a scoop.
1:03:20
She says, "Situational awareness made a big bet this week on Source Foundry, a startup aiming to reinvent the way chips are manufactured.
1:03:27
Sequoia is an earlier investor.
1:03:29
Uh, they bet $400 on a stealth chip startup after the crash.
1:03:35
And so, this is, I believe, an ASML competitor.
1:03:36
Um and uh situational awareness now has invested 500 million in total.
1:03:42
Uh they have a bunch of Stanford researchers on the team.
1:03:44
People are generally very bullish on this company.
1:03:47
It seems like a great bet.
1:03:47
But um but there was this question of like what is the sequence because this is very much framed as like a whoa okay situational awareness is back.
1:03:54
They uh you know they sold their public book to Citadel and they're already writing new checks.
1:04:01
But there is a question about the sequence of events here.
1:04:02
In my experience, closing a $400 million round.
1:04:07
I've never done round of that size, but um even like a $20 million round might take a few months.
1:04:11
Like you have a handshake deal, you sign a term sheet, you do some due diligence.
1:04:16
Even if you're moving really really fast, uh that's usually something that >> Leopold a month to to make a 400.
1:04:21
At the same time, if there was ever if there was ever a wedding to marshall 400 million in one deal and sign and wire in two days, it would have been his wedding.
1:04:33
But it's entirely possible that this happened earlier and is just coming out now.
1:04:37
So, still still not a lot of uh like since Leopold shared that one letter with LPS, there's still a lot of uncertainty about where the overall fund is going, what the strategy is.
1:04:49
Will they be in public companies?
1:04:50
Will they be using leverage at all?
1:04:52
A whole bunch of questions around rebuilding.
1:04:55
And I'm sure that there's a lot of LPs that that got in late, don't have that anthropic stake, don't have as much with a private book, might be sitting down, not up 80%, but actually down on their investment down 80%, down 90%.
1:05:08
And those bringing leverage to privates, right?
1:05:12
The way Masa is one of the few, the brave that uh indulges in leverage in the private [laughter] market.
1:05:19
>> You think that's what his message was?
1:05:21
I'm not going to use leverage in public markets anymore.
1:05:23
And they're like, wow, that's so brave.
1:05:25
You really learned your lessons.
1:05:26
Like, I'm gonna use leverage in private markets.
1:05:28
And you're like, no, >> I mean, less volatility. >> Less volatility.
1:05:32
Uh, but still, I mean, you can effectively have a bank run if you have redemption rules because as a hedge fund, typically you can get your money back a lot faster than a private uh VC firm.
1:05:41
So, I don't know what what >> you're the boss.
1:05:43
I'm just the guy who's right.
1:05:45
[laughter] Uh now Paul Graham uh apparently is 14-year-old [laughter] an iconic quote. You're the boss.
1:05:52
I'm just the guy who's right. >> That's a great quote. >> That's a great line. >> Wow.
1:05:58
[laughter] >> I think the team you full permission to try to deliver this line.
1:06:04
>> You got to deliver with authority with some gusto. Um for sure. Also fun fun post here.
1:06:10
Uh Tim Urban from Wait but why was on the apprentice?
1:06:12
How did we not know this until just now?
1:06:15
I love this picture so much.
1:06:18
Tim Urban's looking great there in the suit.
1:06:20
I got to go back and watch this entire season.
1:06:24
Figure out what happened to Tim Urban on weight of Wait, But why?
1:06:26
Uh you've seen his viral charts, his graphics, um his mafia appearance.
1:06:32
He was in the Founders Fund mafia episode.
1:06:34
Uh, lots of fun with Tim Urban, but funny to see him uh, you know, spotted there in uh, what mid 2000s television. I don't know.
1:06:42
Did you ever watch The Apprentice?
1:06:46
>> No, >> I don't think I ever watching.
1:06:48
>> No, but you should watch the movie The Apprentice. >> I have seen that.
1:06:51
>> That's a fantastic >> told me to watch that great movie. Great movie.
1:06:54
Uh, and I think that that that that just about does the job.
1:06:55
Uh, anyway, we have our first guest, Ryan Spoon from Yahoo here with us live in the TVP Ultradome. Get this button ready.
1:07:08
[laughter] >> We came prepared.
1:07:11
>> You want to open this Jordy? >> Honorable. >> Yeah.
1:07:13
Well, thank you so much for coming on down. How you doing? >> This is awesome. Thank you.
1:07:18
>> And uh super appreciative to be here.
1:07:20
>> Uh please introduce yourself for everyone. >> Ryan Spoon.
1:07:23
Um I'm um president of Yahoo Media Group, which includes Yahoo Finance, Yahoo Sports, and some of our video efforts.
1:07:32
Uh, how do you wind up in this role?
1:07:37
>> I have spent um a lot >> the Yod.
1:07:40
>> It's a good the yodel. The yodel. >> The yodel.
1:07:42
>> And so this is >> they never die.
1:07:45
>> And so this is um we'll talk about sports and today's obviously um important day [clears throat] for fantasy, but this is our Yahoo sports. Yahoo fantasy. >> Whoa. There we go. That's great. I love it.
1:07:54
>> So this was started by um >> Yeah.
1:07:57
>> Uh the gentleman who who founded StockX has a company called Ghostright.
1:08:01
We made these for our talent and our Yeah.
1:08:02
And there's a hundred of those in the world.
1:08:06
You You are now one of those. >> I mean, >> I love it.
1:08:09
Is does does Yahoo have a long history of like deal toy type objects between the button and now this or is this uh >> they are related but unrelated?
1:08:17
Um the we we try to create a bunch of things for different parts of the community.
1:08:24
Um in fantasy we have 10 million plus people who play fantasy.
1:08:28
Um, we have a bunch of subscribers and so we've created a bunch of merch chach to uh to send to those fans.
1:08:36
Um, and then we got, you know, we do 60 hours of live shows a week at this point, just sports. >> Wow. >> And we want >> crazy. >> We don't have this.
1:08:43
Um, but we want the backgrounds and and so forth. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:08:48
Um, how cyclical is the business around sports?
1:08:50
I mean, you mentioned like it's a big day.
1:08:51
Break down what's happening now, the big moments on the calendar. >> Yeah. Um football is king. >> Yeah.
1:09:02
>> Um and we have a heritage around fantasy in particular.
1:09:06
Um >> and obviously fantasy is biggest around football.
1:09:10
So there is cyclicality there.
1:09:13
>> Um >> but sports is now almost 365 days.
1:09:14
um on the um obviously you had the World Cup in July, you had the Knicks and the Spurs in June, but starting September and we're 30 days out now of NFL kickoff. >> Mhm.
1:09:29
>> Um fantasy for us is really really critical.
1:09:33
Those users are using the app five out of seven days a week.
1:09:37
>> Um almost two hours a week.
1:09:40
>> Um and there's something >> I bet the winners are using it quite a bit more.
1:09:44
I don't know what what they're doing taking a couple days off a week.
1:09:48
>> We give them lots of research, lots of videos to consume, um draft guides.
1:09:50
Um but at this point now, there's sports to consume hours a day, every day.
1:09:57
Uh and it really is 365 days a year.
1:10:01
>> What do what do uh fantasy sports users want on the product side, on the features side?
1:10:06
Because obviously there's a way that you you know stuff AI in every single [clears throat] piece of the UI.
1:10:11
It can get a little bit over the top.
1:10:14
At the same time, people can go to any AI app of their choosing and sort of ask the same questions and they get that for free.
1:10:23
It's less work for you guys, but there's probably some pull there on or some tension there for you.
1:10:29
>> It's really an interesting question because you could make it so that you press one button. >> Yeah.
1:10:36
>> And that's not very fun. >> No. Yeah. It's like chess.
1:10:37
com if it's like I get to play as Stockfish like Okay.
1:10:41
And the beauty of fantasy is you have 12 friends or whatever your number is >> and you're chatting and you're going back and forth.
1:10:48
>> Y >> and that >> there's a rhythm to it.
1:10:51
This is the great part about uh fantasy in particular is I can tell you what users do Monday, Tuesday, it's different Wednesday, it's different Thursday.
1:10:59
>> And so we want the tool set >> to um be easy.
1:11:02
We want it to make you feel smart or smarter. Yeah.
1:11:07
>> But at the end of the day, we want you to be in control. >> Yeah.
1:11:09
Um the other part our big learning has been let's just create different formats create different um ways to play. >> Okay.
1:11:19
>> So last year we introduced uh something called death leagues with liquid death. It was a lot of fun.
1:11:25
>> It's a very different way to play.
1:11:25
Your goal >> is what it sounds like [laughter] >> somewhat.
1:11:29
Um your goal is to not get last every week. >> Okay.
1:11:34
>> You get last you're kicked out >> eliminated fully. >> Eliminated.
1:11:37
all those players go back better because a lot of times someone comes in last two times and then they're not even updating their roster and then everyone's sort of picking over it, right?
1:11:45
>> And the strategy is >> when that person is kicked out, their players go to the waiverss. >> Yep.
1:11:51
>> So, how do you use your budget?
1:11:51
How do you figure out um >> interesting?
1:11:54
>> Two weeks ago, we announced um college football fantasy. >> Yeah.
1:11:59
>> And that is >> that hasn't existed that feels like >> and it's awesome.
1:12:03
Or is that is that on the back of NIL stuff or was this just like a technical >> why?
1:12:08
So >> I think there's a bunch of things all happening at the same time.
1:12:11
First of all, college has never been bigger. >> Yeah.
1:12:14
>> Um the conferences are realigned and now quite large.
1:12:20
>> Um and so we created a game that has the power for conferences and Notre Dame. >> Okay.
1:12:26
>> Um and we created a couple different formats for it.
1:12:29
So there is also a uh team offensive flex.
1:12:32
So if you are a big UT fan, you can draft Arch Manning and Texas. >> Okay.
1:12:40
>> Um but there are some twists that we need to because it is different than NFL. >> Sure. Sure. Sure.
1:12:44
>> It's been really really fun so far.
1:12:46
>> What is the the uh the structure of the revenue base for Yahoo Fantasy?
1:12:50
revenue base for Yahoo Fantasy? um similar to Yahoo Sports um which is we are consumption and ad based predominantly >> okay >> but there are subscription products and I would say this is true of how we treat Yahoo Finance >> and then there's paid partnerships like the liquid death thing presumably >> yeah that's sponsorship
1:13:10
>> we have lots of sponsorship sponsorship >> um and so you and you'll see that the same way you do a great job with reads and integration and onset we do that across all of our shows all of our apps y >> but then there are premium subscriptions We have a Yahoo Fantasy Plus product >> um which has different data, different insights and features for fantasy. We do
1:13:27
We do the same on finance as well.
1:13:31
>> What is the shape of uh if everyone in a fantasy league is putting a hundred bucks in, the winner takes it all, is there a way that Yahoo facilitates that, takes a cut, or is all of this off book because of the way it's regulated? >> Um all the above. Okay. We have public leagues. >> Yeah.
1:13:49
We have private leagues which are 12 friends or whatnot based on your states.
1:13:53
We have the ability to play paid leagues. Oh, sure.
1:13:55
Um and that's a lot of fun.
1:13:57
Those are very uh engaged uh uh leagues, very active.
1:14:01
And then we do have the way to kind of manage your league. Yeah.
1:14:05
>> Um what we don't do is uh we stick to fantasy. Sure.
1:14:09
>> Uh so we're not in the sports gaming, sports gambling.
1:14:12
>> Yeah, that makes sense.
1:14:12
Have you thought about setting up regional SAT testing facilities for fantasy football punishments?
1:14:19
So if I lose, I can go to a Yahoo brand SAT testing facility and I can send Tyler over there to take the SAT. No, that's my favorite.
1:14:29
>> The the crew in the front was telling me some of the highs of of their wins and then also some of the punishments.
1:14:34
And the SAT sounds positive in comparison. >> Oh yeah, I'm sure.
1:14:39
I'm sure it's like a familyfriendly one.
1:14:43
uh how do you think about new sports leagues?
1:14:45
We've had uh people on the show.
1:14:48
Uh our friend our friend Alexis is like a big investor in like a in a in an all women's uh track running league.
1:14:53
Uh we had the >> Slam Ball or was he just talking about Slam Ball being cool? >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know.
1:15:01
Um but then you know we had the the I think one of the founders of the enhanced games. We covered that.
1:15:08
But what's your outlook like?
1:15:11
At what point does something become, do you care about emerging sports and leagues? >> We do.
1:15:16
Um, >> look, >> it's great to be the NFL. Yeah. >> To be NBA, MLB.
1:15:24
>> Um, but you exemplify this as as well as anyone, which is you find your audience. >> Yeah. Niches >> and you grow. >> Yeah.
1:15:33
Um, and there's never been a better time to be able to do that.
1:15:35
Both for the rights holder, the league, and also the athletes.
1:15:39
There's some really fascinating stuff.
1:15:41
Alexis is involved in a lot of it.
1:15:43
There's also TGL, that indoor golf league. >> Oh, really? >> It's awesome. >> Huh.
1:15:48
>> Um Sean White has a snowboard uh league.
1:15:51
>> Slamball was Gary Vee, by the way. >> Oh, that's right. Okay, got it.
1:15:55
>> Gary's also in pickle ball. >> Yeah, pickle ball.
1:15:57
>> There's a lot of emerging uh sport. >> Yeah.
1:16:00
Um, and part of the reason is the athletes have huge audiences and followings, no different than you have your own audiences and following.
1:16:09
>> And then you're able to construct and to go live.
1:16:11
And we in many cases there's a um the indoor football league had its semi-finals last night.
1:16:17
It's not the NFL um but they broadcast on Yahoo.
1:16:22
>> Um and there's five million people who've watched that season on Yahoo.
1:16:24
Um, so there's tons of examples of people starting up new >> uh new product, if you will.
1:16:31
>> How do you You're doing 60 hours a week of live content. Um, >> 40 50 in finance. >> Yeah, absolutely. Moging us.
1:16:39
Um, we're only we're barely putting up 15.
1:16:44
>> Um, but uh, how do you >> more than two people doing it?
1:16:47
[laughter] >> Uh, how do you how do you identify talent?
1:16:50
How confident are you when you're looking at signing or helping create a show?
1:16:54
How confident, like how refined is your kind of um forecasting ability to understand if somebody's going to be be great?
1:17:06
>> I would love to say it's super refined.
1:17:08
Um the um look the way the way we've done everything is and I say it's the same north star just said differently for sports and finance which is our aim is to deliver smart content make you a smarter fan make you a smarter investor uh starts with that we know what our priorities are we have to be great in fantasy >> uh and hands down we have the best fantasy roster and then sport by sport
1:17:38
or category by category whether it's crypto or it's mag we need voices tied to those >> sure >> um in general we are looking for people who are multiplatform >> um so we want you know just like you some days I listen on pod some days I
1:17:58
listen on video >> it's a skill set to be able to do both of those well as the talent side that's important a lot of our folks are also writers >> and they also have followings on social Sure. >> Um, most importantly, and and I again
1:18:08
>> Um, most importantly, and and I again think you guys are excellent at this, you just have to have fun. >> Yeah.
1:18:15
>> And you can see it when you hear Kevin O'Connor >> uh on NBA, you can see it Brian Sazy on finance.
1:18:20
They just are happy and they enjoy their job and they're smiling. Yeah.
1:18:25
>> And that is you can learn. You can't learn that.
1:18:28
You either have that energy or you don't.
1:18:30
>> How are you thinking about uh shared distribution infrastructure?
1:18:32
Like we've done a lot to uh clip the show and repurpose it for LinkedIn and Instagram.
1:18:40
And when you have a lot of content, it can sometimes be yep overwhelming to have duplication across all your hosts and all your different shows.
1:18:46
But it might be better if one of those one of those talented hosts is sharing clips on their own personal Instagram, for example, but then where's the value acrew to Yahoo or not?
1:18:57
And so there's this like tension there, but I'm wondering how you've how you've sorted through that over the time.
1:19:04
So, I don't think that's a tension.
1:19:04
I think it's a reality and you got to accept it. >> Sure.
1:19:09
>> Um, >> and I spent a lot of years at ESPN.
1:19:10
I spent almost eight years at ESPN.
1:19:14
>> I'm sure you saw it with like Twitter like and ESPN at that time where it was like, "Oh, wow."
1:19:18
Like, this person's getting really big just for taking a picture, sending out 140 characters.
1:19:23
>> So, we have a a gentleman named Ariel Hwani. >> Yeah.
1:19:26
>> And if you know MMA or UFC, he is the voice. Yeah. And he's awesome.
1:19:29
He's he's got a beautiful studio. >> Yeah.
1:19:34
Yeah, we looked at his studio.
1:19:34
Uh I was studying his studio setup early on because he does a lot of remote guests and it's uh he has an interesting setup to make it feel like it is a conversation but also the viewer can >> and it's similar in the sense that um he does with his crew.
1:19:50
They do a period every they go live three hours every day. Sounds familiar.
1:19:54
They have a period >> tiring um but it works. >> It works.
1:20:00
And then they have a lot of guests and a lot of those guests come on video.
1:20:03
A lot of those guests are live in person. >> Yeah.
1:20:06
>> Um >> for his audience, for him and and for his team and his brand to do the the sharing on social is more impactful.
1:20:13
We obviously still amplify it and Yahoo will do it and we have our but >> that's a good thing.
1:20:20
Um same as Brian Sazi super active on LinkedIn. >> That's a good thing.
1:20:26
uh better than and he can say things and relate to his audience in a way that is more impactful >> doing that than it would be from a brand.
1:20:36
>> What's been uh how have you processed the prediction market boom?
1:20:38
huge demand from sports fans broadly.
1:20:41
Even just when I'm watching the World Cup, I want to even though I'm not a better uh I or trader I >> predtor >> predictor uh I like to just have a clear number of like oh okay 20% chance that America wins this or whatever.
1:20:57
Uh it's an easy way to understand a line and and what experts are thinking uh at the same time complicated from regulatory perspective.
1:21:06
How have you experienced the the boom?
1:21:08
How have you decided to integrate or not?
1:21:13
>> So, you raised two very important but I think separated points.
1:21:16
The first um >> and I've I said this before the space kind of opened up on the sports betting side.
1:21:24
Um um >> whether you bet or predict or not, >> I think it's actually really important to the storytelling. Yeah.
1:21:34
>> For the reason >> you just outlined. Yeah.
1:21:35
It's a very easy way to digest what is likely to happen. >> Yep.
1:21:41
>> Um if you can actually then overlay the live oddsuh or predictions on top of a game or an event >> and start to understand things very interestingly.
1:21:50
The same way you can take a stock price and say, "Oh, there's earnings, there's news." >> Totally.
1:21:54
>> Totally. Um so I I think it's actually really important that we do it and we do it right um and safely uh from a storytelling perspective on the our role there is a little different obviously we do the storytelling um we're not going to process uh or or be actively the platform >> but we have a very big audience 100 million plus users in in sports 100 million plus people
1:22:21
>> we go >> 100 million plus in finance Um >> our job is to work with those platforms >> and so uh we've worked with poly market uh khi we talked about aerial hani and uncrowned ki provides all the they vertically have that >> um you see odds from uh uh other platforms we think that's really important but we're going to do that in an integration in a partnership in a sponsorship way. >> What's driving top of funnel? I mean 100
1:22:47
>> What's driving top of funnel?
1:22:47
I mean 100 million is a ton. There's a lot of people.
1:22:52
I imagine you want to grow.
1:22:54
What's the plan for getting to 500 million?
1:22:58
>> Um, [laughter] 500's a lot.
1:23:01
>> What's the plan to get to 5 billion? >> Yeah.
1:23:05
>> Sports more sports fans.
1:23:07
>> We need those need like was like we need to put internet in Africa if we're going to get >> No. No.
1:23:14
an example like like you're you're somewhat the best marketing for Yahoo is is probably like the league's doing well.
1:23:21
They're being like riveting storylines >> and it is it has been interesting.
1:23:24
Um, uh, the UFC has had a couple big moments this year, but, um, the league has like, from my point of view, and again, I'm I'm a casual, but from my point of view, the league has somewhat struggle struggled to cultivate American superstars or or or Western superstars, which is where a lot of the the, you know, which is important for the league um, overall.
1:23:52
And so, yeah, it's this interesting dynamic where like how much you can only do so much without these big moments happening and you have to be ready for those big moments.
1:24:04
>> And it's it's interesting the we want to drive fandom. >> Yeah.
1:24:11
>> And we don't play in the live rights, you know, we're not licensing.
1:24:14
Uh that's a very different game.
1:24:16
We play a different game than ESPN, >> but all of us benefit from fandom generally growing.
1:24:24
>> And so, um, while the UFC, uh, bout will not occur on Yahoo, >> the pregame, the postgame, we want to be the game around the game, the discussion around and drive the fandom.
1:24:38
>> I'll give you a a slight pivot on the how do we grow?
1:24:40
Uh, and yes, we do want to grow and yes, we are growing. Of course.
1:24:44
>> Um >> I actually spend more time thinking about usage. >> Sure.
1:24:49
>> Um and one of the takeaways from being at a TV world >> was >> priority number one is grow minutes, >> which is a very kind of TV uh term, but we look at overall consumption in minutes.
1:25:04
>> Um and there's two ways to grow that.
1:25:06
>> Get new people coming in and get them to do more things. >> Yeah.
1:25:09
Um, and that's why things like fantasy are so important is we introduced college football.
1:25:13
It's been very good so far.
1:25:15
A third of those users have never played on Yahoo.
1:25:18
>> A third of the people who play death leagues have never played on Yahoo.
1:25:20
New formats adding top of the funnel, but we know that when those users come, they're habitually there.
1:25:27
>> Um, I don't know how you go from 100 to 500, but I I do have a sense of how you go from um get you to spend 10 minutes today to get you to spend 12. >> Fantasy Movie League.
1:25:36
That's what you got to do.
1:25:38
played this unironically. It was not on Yahoo.
1:25:40
It was on some random website.
1:25:42
You have a you have eight screens. You get to pick.
1:25:44
Okay, I want the Odyssey. That's really expensive. >> A box office. >> You box office.
1:25:48
You create a theoretical box office.
1:25:50
Then when the numbers come in, you see who ranks.
1:25:52
I got all my friends playing for like one season, but the season doesn't really end because there's movies and it's yearly.
1:25:58
But, uh, people have a lot of fun with that. The niche. >> Yeah.
1:26:03
I always I always wish there was so fun. >> Yeah.
1:26:05
I wish there was fantasy private markets. >> Yes.
1:26:09
>> But but one of the challenges I think one of the challenges is like attention spans.
1:26:12
Like there's companies right now that I just know are like obvious shorts and I would love to express that notation for a decade like realistically >> hang out for it'll be it's like >> like this and then just bam.
1:26:27
>> Um but yeah, I don't even want to do it publicly but just with like you know just for uh fun with like a group chat.
1:26:34
It sounds incredible, but I just don't think the >> I don't know if the attention spans are there because sometimes a company like isa actively failing but will take >> a long time. >> No, totally. >> Yeah.
1:26:47
[laughter] >> I don't know how to answer that part, but but connected to the one of the How do you get more time?
1:26:55
You have to satisfy different ways of play, which could be what we just talked about, but also I want something to play today. >> Yeah. >> Versus a season. >> Totally.
1:27:02
versus perpetuity of the box office forever.
1:27:08
>> But we have different formats for different things.
1:27:10
So we had a World Cup game with Fox. >> Sure.
1:27:12
>> Um obviously the broadcast uh we have daily games which we've done for WNBA, we've done for F1, and that's a way to watch a game, make some make some uh predictions.
1:27:23
Um and then you can play within a week, but really it's consumed in a single day.
1:27:27
And then you have the whole NFL season or MLB season is a commitment >> and there's enough overlap there that true sports fans must have something for sure. For sure.
1:27:38
>> Well, thank you so much for coming on. >> Thank you so much.
1:27:40
>> Thank you for the gift.
1:27:40
Stunning for me to make some of those. Love this. >> Great to see you. >> Good luck.
1:27:46
Uh good luck with uh >> and let me tell you about Codex.
1:27:49
Codeex is a powerful workspace for getting work done with AI agents.
1:27:54
Whether you're writing code, analyzing data, creating content, or automating business workflows, Codex helps you move projects forward from start to finish.
1:28:01
Jordy >> Matt Lavine has a new postline.
1:28:06
>> He says, "Whether they want to admit it or not, many women have always been attracted to bad boys and risktakers.
1:28:09
I can't think of any archetype that fits that description more today."
1:28:13
That newsletters that put it all on the line every day.
1:28:18
>> Newsletter writers that put it all on the line every day.
1:28:20
Uh, I love that your quote has already become a copy pasta.
1:28:25
That's a true that's a badge of that's a badge of honor. Badge of true virality. Wow.
1:28:30
Uh, tell me about the 118 Wall-E power designed by Lazarini Pickering Archite Archite. >> So, yeah. Incredible.
1:28:42
>> Call it the most beautiful.
1:28:43
>> I'm so happy that Lusso, this account shared this. >> Uh, I saw this.
1:28:46
I thought it maybe was a render at first.
1:28:50
It just looks too good to be true.
1:28:52
And the craziest thing to me is this.
1:28:55
I I'm kind of gonna go out on a limb and say that like the Cybert truck maybe was inspired by this.
1:29:01
Like it looks if you just put them up side by side, it looks uh very very very similar. >> Uh 118 uh feet long. >> Oh.
1:29:12
>> Um and uh it is it is quick.
1:29:12
Michael Bay used it in a movie, I believe, The Island.
1:29:19
Uh if you scroll down in the comments, there's uh there's some shots from the movie where uh they're illustrating that there's a whole city inside. Very cool shot. >> Crazy.
1:29:29
>> Um but yeah, looking at these pictures, I want to >> I wonder right now >> with my friends and family and just head out >> the yacht. Yeah. Yeah.
1:29:37
The inspo potentially the stealth icon. $115 million.
1:29:43
Joe Weisenthal, famous vibe coder, has a timeline dropping >> lange. >> Long langa >> langa. >> No, I don't know.
1:29:53
>> Play chess against a computer of any rating and talk with the tutor while doing so. >> The guy's shipping. He's shipped more.
1:29:59
He's shipped more than honestly.
1:30:01
>> Yeah, >> a lot of actual >> engineers in the last year. >> Okay.
1:30:06
Um, a lot of people say they're going to ship a game and then, you know, they they show a cool demo and then they they they go dark, never to be heard from again.
1:30:16
>> Um, >> this seems like a great way to learn chess.
1:30:18
I've been I've been playing a lot of chess. It's a lot of fun. So, you set your ELO. I like it.
1:30:22
Fun fun that he's shipping.
1:30:26
Um he says this is still very much a work in progress since obviously uh to me yet that LLMs can actually evaluate positions and articulate both strategies and tactics but we'll keep f fiddling with it.
1:30:37
It was interesting that yeah he he actually remarks that like it like that the a the fundamental AI models might be the uh the like the thing holding this product back. But uh yeah pretty cool.
1:30:48
Um yeah yeah good good good project.
1:30:53
Uh, >> I had something else about chess, but I forgot.
1:30:57
Anyway, >> more more ads. Hit the subway. We should pull this up. >> Oh, yeah.
1:31:01
>> Um, uh, and see some of the Let's get a little review going of some of the tech ads. >> Oh, yeah.
1:31:09
My feedback for Joe is that it need the design needs to be more responsive.
1:31:12
I'm opening it up on like half a window.
1:31:14
Uh, so ideally, uh, hardcoded Objective C app, that's where the bar is.
1:31:21
Ideally, uh, you vertically integrate all the way into hardware.
1:31:24
And I want a a physical version of this product. >> Yeah. >> All right. Pull up this video. >> What video? The video of Oh, yeah. More fake tech ads. We love these guys. >> Underwear. Underwear that think.
1:31:41
>> Underwear that think >> grieving trade on it with wake market. That's >> really dark.
1:31:46
That sounds unfortunately real. What's this one? >> Froggle is now Brian.
1:31:53
Cloud-based safety just got personal.
1:31:55
[gasps] >> I I has anyone actually done >> hire everyone on Earth without doing anything. Meet Gravy HR.
1:32:03
>> It's the best >> grandfather.
1:32:04
The first wearable AI direct shot at friend.
1:32:07
That's just friend [laughter] [clears throat] >> idea. Light bulb dashboard.
1:32:12
That is the perfect the >> You have an idea, we turn it into a wombie. A wle.
1:32:19
[laughter] A womble >> payroll now in pill form. >> Payroll in pill form.
1:32:24
That sounds that sounds really delightful.
1:32:28
>> From two to five and just three. Dennis.
1:32:31
>> I mean that's correct.
1:32:31
I guess >> still merging manually. Merge Michael. >> What's this last one?
1:32:40
>> Your calendar is married to your email.
1:32:43
Your email didn't want to get married.
1:32:45
Your emails your email's father gave your calendar's father five goats.
1:32:47
One of the goats cannot produce. [laughter] >> Wow.
1:32:55
The most dear family ever.
1:32:59
>> Your email's father gave your calendar's father five goats.
1:33:01
One of the goats cannot produce milk. We have your back.
1:33:06
[laughter] This >> is the most abstract metaphor possible. I love it.
1:33:10
[gasps] >> Very, very well. >> I'm sold.
1:33:14
>> Okay, what else is going on the timeline?
1:33:15
Uh the Atilier Misor folks are building Prometheus 50 feet tall holding the torch of the west in Starbase, Texas.
1:33:25
I Everyone accused these guys of being AI, but it feels like they're actually out there building stuff.
1:33:29
They just went to Starbase and these guys [laughter] are just building a monument.
1:33:36
People have been, you know, demanding monuments in the timeline for a long time. 29,000 likes on this.
1:33:40
Uh, and yet, uh, it feels like maybe like a stated preference, revealed preference thing where people say they want a big statue, but no one actually wants to go and buy the big statue. I don't know.
1:33:52
It it we'll see how this is how this is received.
1:33:57
It's certainly cool that they're doing all this metal work.
1:33:58
I think it's uh I think it's fun to watch.
1:34:02
Um, I wonder if they'd turn this into a real business.
1:34:03
You think people will buy this?
1:34:05
You think there's a startup here?
1:34:06
You think they can spack this?
1:34:07
>> There's no way they're doing this for free for Elon.
1:34:08
You know, like >> wouldn't be the first time someone put six figures on the line for Elon.
1:34:15
[laughter] You know, people have done crazier builds.
1:34:18
>> Possible this is like uh some type of Trojan horse and they're putting [snorts] >> Oh, you think so?
1:34:26
>> Putting some of Elon's enemies inside.
1:34:28
>> Potentially Blue Origin engineer with a little spy glass looking out understanding the way Starship is built.
1:34:36
Uh never seen this before.
1:34:36
for a fifth century Byzantine gambling machine. Inform anyone familiar?
1:34:42
>> Someone in the team chat just said Tai Morris is inside.
1:34:46
>> Ty Morris [laughter] is inside.
1:34:46
If >> Ty Morris is inside microphone >> Starbase [laughter] really good. He deserves it.
1:34:53
Give him the Give him Give him the interview. Give him the interview.
1:34:57
He worked so hard for that.
1:34:59
>> He went into debt for that interview. >> I like this. Uh >> he bet it all.
1:35:02
Okay, watch this video of this guy who restored a uh a fire department call box.
1:35:08
I I I didn't even know what these were for.
1:35:11
I I've seen these in New York.
1:35:13
I just thought that they were I don't know like like just >> so there's a can inside and then string runs like underground >> basically. I I think it was that.
1:35:20
that this uh gentleman, this uh Instagram or uh YouTube creator went and painted one, I think, without the city's permission, which is sort of cool and against maybe against the rules. I don't know.
1:35:36
I would hope that this is uh wellreceived and no one it doesn't face any push back.
1:35:39
Um because the end result is remarkable and it looks really great.
1:35:45
Look at this detailed painting of the FDNY logo. Pulls it off.
1:35:50
Look at how fresh that thing looks from that to beautiful.
1:35:51
And >> can we get a health check on it after >> Oh, it's already been ruined.
1:35:57
Yeah, we got to send someone out and see the progress.
1:36:01
But uh this is uh this is something that I think uh should be the example that Trey Stevens gives for civil service.
1:36:08
Like if your if your son was drafted by the government to go do a year and they were working on projects like this, just beautifification of the city, I'd be like, "Yeah, that's fine."
1:36:20
And I I feel like anyone could figure out how to do that.
1:36:21
Not that it it's not incredible artisanship, but like I I do think that you give any enterprising young person a couple cans of paint, couple couple tutorials, they could go around and clean up things like that.
1:36:36
And I think that would be a very very valuable use of of individuals time. I don't know.
1:36:40
What do you think, Jordy? Are you against it? Are you pro dirty? >> I'm pro.
1:36:43
I think it sounds I think it sounds like a great idea.
1:36:45
You want your call boxes to be to be all scuffed up or you want them to be fresh. Freshly fresh.
1:36:50
And yeah, it might get scuffed up again. Send somebody else out.
1:36:52
Do it weekly if you have to. I love it. >> That's right.
1:36:57
>> Uh, someone posted what happened.
1:36:59
>> We ought to romanticize SF more if we ever want this city to be actually cool.
1:37:05
There's two beautiful images of of people walking around smiling. >> Motion blur.
1:37:09
>> Someone comments, "Is this AI generated?"
1:37:11
And the original poster just says, "Yep." Wow.
1:37:16
>> Two on the nose >> poetry. >> Two on the nose.
1:37:19
But Anna Winour is changing this. >> That's true. Yeah.
1:37:23
>> Bring world vog world will will actually look like that or or or even more uh more striking.
1:37:28
Let me tell you about CrowdStrike. Your business is AI.
1:37:30
Their business is securing it.
1:37:32
Crowd Strike secures AI and stops breaches.
1:37:33
And we need to play our intro video.
1:37:37
the most feared lawyer, the video that I produced in Neural Frames because we have the founder and CEO from Neurof Frames.
1:37:43
I've been really enjoying the product and I wanted to show you a little bit of what we built with this and then we can bring in the founder and talk about the actual product. There we go.
1:37:52
This so the song is from Sunno and then I took the song, put it in Neuroframes and it generated all of this for me was able to edit it together.
1:38:08
The lawyer, [music] the law of fear.
1:38:09
When John Quinn stands, the whole room kneels [music] and BILLION DOLLARS APPEAR. >> So fun. Let's bring him in.
1:38:23
We have Nikolai from Neural Friends, the founder and CEO. >> Let's switch over. >> What's going on? >> How you doing? Welcome to the show. >> Hi guys. >> Great to meet you. >> Great to meet you.
1:38:34
Very exciting to be here.
1:38:36
Thanks so much for hopping on. Uh, introduce yourself.
1:38:38
Tell us a little bit about the company.
1:38:40
Uh, how long you've been building, the size of the team, where you're based off. >> Yeah.
1:38:43
And a little bit more backstory.
1:38:43
I think the first your first attempts at making music videos I think you were doing manually. >> Um, maybe. Yeah.
1:38:52
>> But then, but then at some point it switched over and you were just flipping them over to me like every 20 minutes.
1:38:58
And I'm like, how is how is how is John doing this?
1:39:00
Now we know he's using your product. >> Yeah. Now we know.
1:39:03
Now we know John, first of all, props for for the music video.
1:39:07
Amazing what you got out of the platform and the and the lawyer [clears throat] the lawyer.
1:39:12
>> Real real real career ahead of me as music AI music video [laughter] director. I'm sure. >> I think so. I think so.
1:39:16
>> Well, no, I mean we go into this about like like it's not it's not a broadly like amazing video.
1:39:22
It's only funny in this context of like there's like 50 people that think that's funny that understand Quinn Emanuel, but you would never be able to underwrite making a m full music video for a random corporate lawyer.
1:39:36
Um but uh you can now and I think that's what's actually interesting about this product and AI video generally, but uh but give us the history of the company. >> Sure.
1:39:45
Um so uh yeah, I'm I'm Nikico, founder and CEO of Neuroframes.
1:39:48
Uh this started three and a half years ago.
1:39:52
first as a kind of indie hacking uh solopreneur project.
1:39:54
I just kind of played around with stable diffusion.
1:39:57
So I'm I'm a I I have a long time history as a musician uh as a passionate hobby musician.
1:40:03
I have a PhD in physics and then I kind of wanted to build something myself in the real world and not only in in physics labs basically >> was looking for a startup to build and um in the end of 2022 played around with AI animation based on stable diffusion which has just just kind of come up.
1:40:18
Um, and I deeply fell in love with creating these animations.
1:40:23
It was it was so much fun.
1:40:24
I had a model fine-tuned on myself and then I, you know, there was an image to image to image loop and I could just steer the animations with my own words and that was so much fun. I loved it.
1:40:32
I thought like I cannot be the only one who who enjoys this uh and um I didn't really have a clear use case in mind, let's say, but just hacked together a prototype launched in January 2023.
1:40:41
It kind of went viral on Hacken News and and Reddit and then just grew from there.
1:40:47
Uh fast forward to today, we are platform focused on music videos.
1:40:50
Uh we are a team of 12 people at the moment in Berlin.
1:40:54
Um uh yeah, we are bootstraps still. We are profitable.
1:40:57
I I don't know if you hit the gong for bootstrap.
1:41:01
>> Oh, we definitely we definitely hit the gong for profitability.
1:41:02
[laughter] Those are >> those are our favorite gongs to hit.
1:41:09
>> Yeah, that's the best.
1:41:11
>> My live stream coming true, John. Thank you very much.
1:41:13
I mean, we're doing 5 million and your run rate.
1:41:14
We grew 6x on year and so We have we are very excited for what's to come. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:41:20
With 10 people, I'm sure it's gone very well. Uh yeah.
1:41:22
So I mean >> in the castle [laughter] in the castle.
1:41:27
>> So yes, I mean so so many questions.
1:41:27
Um first I'm I'm interested in the positioning of the product because I I found neural frames.
1:41:33
Uh by actually going to chat GPT and saying like I have a pseudo song.
1:41:38
I want to make an AI music video and I want to do not a lot of work like what do you recommend?
1:41:45
recommended neural frames and then I went there.
1:41:46
But I'm interested in uh in in how how opinionated you think you need to be in the product, how narrow you want to stay focused because uh Midjourney is a great example of a company where it it feels like it has David Holes fingerprints on every image that's generated.
1:42:02
And that could be a criticism because it's not this broad platform that's AGI doing everything, but there's an immense amount of value in having an opinionated product at this moment in time.
1:42:13
And I'm wondering do you think you'll stay there or do you want to broaden out or or do you want to go more opinionated? >> Great.
1:42:20
That's a very interesting question.
1:42:22
I mean so we are very focused on the music video use case which is already kind of a niche by itself, right?
1:42:27
Um >> uh we are very deliberate there because uh we are bootstrapped.
1:42:31
So uh there's no purpose in in competing with like generic a general purpose AI video companies out there. Right.
1:42:38
within the AI music video realm, it is definitely our ambition that you should be able to create kind of anything.
1:42:45
Um, but of course we have kind of our harness.
1:42:48
I think you called it harness before and this is also how how we call it internally.
1:42:52
We kind of bit our harness so that uh people get uh kind of high quality at at least like the highest possible quality with uh with the lowest uh amount of clicks out there.
1:43:02
Um still kind of trying to follow what they what they type in.
1:43:07
You can actually use the service for non-m music videos.
1:43:08
I uh >> I found a very weird story in my hometown of like a fraud case that there was only like one article about this uh this particular case um uh in like the LA Times.
1:43:24
But I was able to take that into ChachiBT uh turn it into a uh deep research report, turn that into a script for a Netflix style true crime documentary, then take that into make voice over and then I took that into neural frames and it basically made like a AI generated six-minute Netflix documentary.
1:43:45
documentary. neural frames origin initially got a little confused because it was like expecting beats I think and like it was having trouble cutting it up but it wound up working just like once I refreshed and so there there's a world where this like vertical short form storytelling could get there but it does
1:44:03
feel like uh there's still a really like the the magic is definitely in if you're not going for the funny shock value of like the content like oh it's really polished about something that does not deserve a music video um the the the quality bar is a lot higher and so I'm interested in how you're assessing progress across the various video models. Uh I I did try Cance 2.5. It's Uh I I did try Cance 2. 5. It's good.
1:44:28
I don't know if it was my prompt, but it was still very clockable as AI imagery.
1:44:33
And so I'm wondering about how you're thinking about the the the progress in AI video models, the cost, and what you're seeing across the landscape.
1:44:45
So, I mean, first of all, one year ago, we were, I think, to the best of my knowledge, the first music video tool out there that had character consistency, right?
1:44:52
Um, just to to to tell you where we're coming from.
1:44:55
So, like one year ago, it was impossible to have character consistency basically.
1:45:00
Then we added three character consistency and now I mean, the lawyer was with all the criticism that you had, it was pretty consistent person and we're actually very proud of like the the character consistency.
1:45:10
You can even upload yourself and and create. Yeah. >> Yeah. And it's easy.
1:45:13
You just take a couple screenshots, upload it, it creates a character, and then and then you just tag it.
1:45:18
And it's very very simple to actually like create consistent character.
1:45:23
>> Of course, like if you imagine, I mean, AI video models create usually 5 10 second clips. Right now, Cance 2.
1:45:27
5 can even go up to 30 seconds, but that's very new. >> Okay.
1:45:32
>> And our kind of challenge is um the the main challenge of music video generation. Um, okay.
1:45:37
You have a three, four, five, six minute song and and you need to create all the images and videos that kind of match the beat, match the mood of the song, right?
1:45:45
Uh, uh, match the character, tell a story >> and and, uh, so it is actually surprising the the AI video models themselves are important.
1:45:54
We can do cool stuff with good new models, but it is surprisingly, I would say, not the most important uh, aspect of this whole thing.
1:46:03
The the whole harness and image generation is is at least equally as important and of course we're continuously working on that and making I think also very good progress.
1:46:11
I I think this this video that you showed would have looked very different three years uh three months ago already. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
1:46:18
How do you think about the trade-off between like UI and and sort of really surfacing the feature versus baking everything down into a text box?
1:46:28
because there's a world where I I could have just gone and said, "Make a music video about John Quinn of Quinn Emanuel."
1:46:36
Uh I I I did have a few steps where I went to Sunno, generated the the music, gave that to you guys, and then uploaded the photos.
1:46:44
And you could sort of do all of that in one huge box and huge prompt, but obviously you get higher quality as you layer in more user interaction.
1:46:54
And you're just surfacing more of those.
1:46:56
Like I didn't know the character consistency was an option until there was like a little button there and I oh what's that and then I see and then I go down that flow.
1:47:05
If it's just a blank box it's harder to do the user education.
1:47:10
>> Yeah this is a very interesting question and and one that we are debating at least every few days here uh in in the team.
1:47:16
Uh this is also changing a lot.
1:47:16
I still think there is a lot of value in an opinionated UX somehow to to guide the user along certain steps, right?
1:47:23
And also to allow um great editing uh in the end. Yeah.
1:47:29
So we we I mean our power users, they spend a lot of time on the platform refining each scene, right?
1:47:33
We have a timeline where you can drag things around.
1:47:36
We you can change the characters, you can change the outfit and stuff like that.
1:47:39
I just personally feel in a in a chatbased uh product that would be a bit more difficult to do. But let's see.
1:47:46
I mean, um, we we might experiment with that in the future. >> Okay.
1:47:50
Give me a lightning round of the video models.
1:47:52
I want your review slash like explanation of what they're good at or what they're not.
1:47:57
Uh, let's start with Cance 2. 5.
1:47:59
It's now on neural frames. What is it good at? Is it too expensive?
1:48:04
How should I think about that model?
1:48:07
>> It's an amazing model.
1:48:07
It's probably the best model that exists at the moment and can create up to 30 second um cohesive clips and it has like a multi-shot feature.
1:48:16
So it it doesn't create one long 30 secondond clip but multiple shots at the same time which new frames kind of does for all models already but but uh in incidents it's kind of integrated.
1:48:24
You can also uh upload lots of references so lots of objects can reappear across scenes.
1:48:29
All of this is very new >> in theory.
1:48:32
There's also audio input uh in in this model uh which um sometimes works better than uh and sometimes doesn't. >> What about cost?
1:48:40
>> It is also it is also probably the most exposive model that exists and and cost is cost is definitely a huge issue.
1:48:44
I mean video models are are quite costly, right?
1:48:48
And um cling is amazing as well.
1:48:50
Cling 3 is a great allrounder kind of um also is not the cheapest but um significantly cheaper than Cance 2 and Cance 2. 5. Yeah.
1:49:02
>> What's going on with the VO family of models from Google, Gemini?
1:49:05
Very impressive at various moments, but I haven't seen them really be harnessed in the same way as C dance recently.
1:49:15
>> I think the latest releases um of of Google were Nano Banana Light, which is a um very good lightweight image model actually, which is also very useful for for several steps in in our workflow. Okay.
1:49:28
um not the highest quality ever but kind of affordable and very fast.
1:49:32
And then they also released Gemini Omni Flash I think it's called.
1:49:34
It's a it's a video model that allows also editing.
1:49:38
It's also very good but um in our experiments doesn't uh quite reach the quality of seed 2.
1:49:45
>> Have a lot of marketers discovered neural frames?
1:49:47
Can I imagine people just saying like, "Yeah, well, they made it for music videos, but you know, if you want to make a Facebook ad, you know, and you have you want >> I think Facebook ads should be music videos, more likely to stop scrolling, >> right?
1:50:01
[laughter] We had an we had a cosmetic brand uh using Neurof Frames.
1:50:05
They they kind of created an AI influencer that then created songs with uh one of the AI music tools and and then music videos with Suno also uh with with Neuro Frames.
1:50:14
Um um we're also seeing music musicians themselves running ads uh on on Instagram or or Facebook that then link to their Spotify Spotify playlist.
1:50:27
>> So that's also an interesting use case, I think. Yeah. >> Yeah, that's fun.
1:50:29
Well, thank you so much for coming on. >> Yeah, very cool.
1:50:33
>> You have anything else? >> No. >> Have a great day.
1:50:35
>> Thank you for providing so much entertainment.
1:50:38
>> We're having a good time with it. >> Definitely.
1:50:39
Definitely tens of thousands of dollars worth of entertainment.
1:50:42
I don't know how much how much you're [laughter] you're charging us, but uh it's been amazing.
1:50:48
>> It's not cheap, but it's very affordable for what you get.
1:50:50
Like, you know, these things are still in >> Yeah, belly laughs aren't free. >> Priceless.
1:50:55
>> There's no such thing as a free belly laugh. >> That's true. That's true. That's true. >> Uh great to meet you. Yeah.
1:50:59
And congratulations on the progress.
1:51:01
Keep it up and come back on the show when there's new when there's more. >> Big fan of you guys.
1:51:05
Thank you so much for having to dude. >> Have a good one.
1:51:08
Let me tell you about Cisco.
1:51:09
Critical infrastructure for the AI era.
1:51:11
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1:51:13
Up next, we have two >> I'm surprised that uh Mikey hasn't come in with the the maxed out offer yet. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:51:25
That the other side of that is that it's going to be a very competitive market and there's a lot of different uh tools and rappers, but I I just think like if you create an opinionated product that's really delightful to use, has good NPS, uh you can carve out a fantastic business as they have.
1:51:38
Anyway, our next guests are Adam Goldstein and Brian Yudco from Archer and Boeing.
1:51:42
We're very excited to talk to them about this partnership.
1:51:48
Welcome to the show and welcome back. How you doing?
1:51:52
>> Good to see you again. >> Good. Good to be here.
1:51:54
>> Uh can you kick us off with some introductions and then set up the partnership for us? >> Yeah, sure.
1:51:58
I'm Adam Goldstein, founder and CEO at Archer. >> I'm Brian Yko.
1:52:02
I lead product development for Boeing. >> Amazing.
1:52:04
And what are you working on together?
1:52:06
So today we announced a pretty big uh strategic transaction where Archer will be acquiring three businesses from Boeing.
1:52:13
Um Whisk which is their advanced air mobility platform in situ which is their ISR drone platform and Sky Grid which is their air traffic control product. >> Wow.
1:52:22
How long have you guys been working together talking about potentially doing some sort of deal?
1:52:26
Um what what what's the story behind this story?
1:52:33
>> Yeah, so Brian and I have known each other for uh you know for several years.
1:52:36
Brian's actually uh he comes from the startup world too. Cool.
1:52:37
And so I'll let you give him you know he'll give his his story there.
1:52:41
But uh you know Boeing has always viewed as this uh you know this big company that we all know that has amazing factory flying every day, but they do a lot of really cool innovative stuff too.
1:52:49
And Brian's the guy that leads a lot of that projects. >> Yeah, thanks Adam.
1:52:52
Yeah, we uh yeah, we got pretty we got pretty involved chatting a couple years back when uh you know um we were developing some autonomous electric aircraft.
1:52:59
Um Adam and his team were developing some piloted electric aircraft.
1:53:03
piloted electric aircraft. there's some natural kind of uh you know complimentarity between those things and and um you know it's been a couple of year um collaboration frankly you know uh going back to probably early 22 or so and uh what does this mean for Archer
1:53:20
should I think about this as uh pulling forward an R&D roadmap uh developing a stronger customer base jumping forward on on revenue or profit uh how are you thinking about integrating these new products and and companies Yeah, in the world of EV talls, it's a pretty small universe, right? And so
1:53:37
And so there hasn't been a scenario here where two companies have come together like this.
1:53:42
So this is kind of like shaken it up in our industry, but if there ever were two companies to come together, it's the perfect match.
1:53:47
We were actually both building aircraft that had similar architectures.
1:53:51
So we both had 12 sets of engines uh and uh uh six propellers that will tilt and six propellers that are stationary.
1:53:58
So the similar type of architecture but Archer took this pathway where we were all about commercialization and Boeing took this pathway where they were advancing all the new technologies like autonomy.
1:54:07
So bringing them together really allows us to supercharge the path to market but also some of the advanced capabilities. >> Yeah.
1:54:15
Uh what what can you share about what the relationship will look like on a go forward basis?
1:54:19
Uh it feels like you guys are getting on together.
1:54:23
So this is unless this is goodbye, I imagine you're going to be doing a lot more work together. Yeah.
1:54:30
So the deal is actually an all stock transaction.
1:54:32
So it makes us partners now. Okay.
1:54:33
And so Boeing locked up the stock.
1:54:35
There's u some incentives for us to collaborate together and really this uh kind of mutually aligned uh roadmap that we're working on.
1:54:41
And so we're both trying to go build the future of aviation and it just aligns us to be able to do it together and we do it now as partners.
1:54:47
I think it's a really great example of kind of a a large institutional company being really creative in deal space, you know, in advanced technology because, you know, frankly, um, you know, we see an opportunity here where we can take some of the pioneering capabilities that we developed for autonomous aviation.
1:55:03
We can add them to what Adam and his team have built and really kind of supercharge some of what can be built in the advanced air mobility market.
1:55:11
And then at the same time through our relationship we can build we can bring some of those advanced capabilities back to our core products as we go off and start trying to win the future on the kind of next wave of commercial aviation.
1:55:24
>> Uh what can you tell us about uh uh Archer's overall surface area or theory around partnerships?
1:55:30
I've been seeing a bunch of these.
1:55:31
Obviously the Ander one happened recently.
1:55:33
Uh is is uh how do you think about the overall structure of partnerships right now?
1:55:38
Like what makes for a great deal?
1:55:42
Well, aviation is actually very collaborative and so even on the defense base, most of the primes will end up working with each other on different projects. Sure.
1:55:49
>> And so a lot of it is just working together to advance these really complex products that ultimately uh are better for the country if we can do it because they are really country level initiatives.
1:55:58
This is the first new product category in the US in almost 60 years.
1:56:02
So it's it's a big deal that this is happening and the US wants to lead that.
1:56:06
So I think it's common that a lot of these industries will work together in this industry.
1:56:09
One of the unique elements to this one too was uh the company Insitu where Insichu is a a revenue producing company, a cash flowing company.
1:56:18
So in the startup land of aviation, you generally don't see uh early revenue uh that comes to these companies.
1:56:24
So the joke is like the Silicon Valley show. It's like revenue. It's like are you sure?
1:56:29
>> Are you sure you want that revenue?
1:56:30
[laughter] So, it's kind of like this uh this funny like uh you know period of time where it's actually a way for us to get products to market, test out the new capabilities on these smaller drones, um generate cash flow to help extend the runway and really allow us to keep building ultimately to the big commercial markets where we want to get to. >> Yeah.
1:56:48
>> Uh you're wearing a uh LA Olympics jacket.
1:56:52
It looks like it's a little far away, but uh what what should people I've been starting to see Olympic signage going up around LA getting excited.
1:57:00
What what should people expect from uh from Archer uh around the Olympics?
1:57:06
>> So, Archer was selected as the exclusive air taxi provider for the LA28 games.
1:57:09
Um that was a huge deal for us.
1:57:12
It's really a chance for the world to see these products on the big stage and that's what it was all about.
1:57:17
And so it also served as a timeline like a an unslippable date for um the company, the regulators, the ecosystem, the infrastructure partners to all work towards getting these product to markets.
1:57:30
It's important for the administration to see America leading in aviation.
1:57:33
So we're really trying to help create those forcing functions to do that.
1:57:36
So the goal is to be flying at the games.
1:57:38
Um lots of aircraft flying around.
1:57:40
Uh people see this new technology, but really you can think about it as an industry promotion to help show it's safe.
1:57:45
It's new technology and good consumer experience.
1:57:49
>> Yeah, I I mean I'm super excited for it.
1:57:51
It's going to be an incredible moment.
1:57:53
Uh how do you think about uh reaching the sort of like iPhone moment, Chachi PT moment, Whimo moment of uh of uh of this product specifically this market because uh there's these some of these technologies they work for they're they're in the lab for a decade two decades and then all of a sudden it's like okay if you go to San Francisco you see Whimos on the road and you know that self-driving is a real thing. It's here.
1:58:20
uh how how are you how do you think that moment will happen for you?
1:58:25
>> So, we've been working on this this project together uh that for the as an industry called the EIP or EV tall integration pilot program and that came from an executive order from President Trump last year that will allow us as an industry to start flying in these big cities and that will take place um it's really already started and it's it's really kind of ramping um the back half of this year.
1:58:45
So Archer's been doing that, Whisk has been doing that.
1:58:47
And the goal is to really take um those aircraft to show them to people so they can see them, they can get comfortable around them, but ultimately so the regulators can get comfortable around them that these are safe and it's not just an archer thing or a whisk thing, but it's an industry thing that all of a sudden we can expand the amount that are out there and they can be ultimately become a part of our everyday life. >> Amazing. I can't wait for it.
1:59:06
Well, thank you so much for coming on the show.
1:59:10
Congratulations on the deal.
1:59:12
>> Yeah, good to see you, Adam, and great to meet you, Brian.
1:59:13
Congrats on uh on the transaction.
1:59:14
Have a great rest of your day. We'll talk to you soon. >> Thanks, guys. >> Goodbye.
1:59:19
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We're bringing horses to the data center. It's the future. Um, >> love it.
1:59:52
>> Anything else you want to talk about? The yenvention.
1:59:55
The yen is extending its decline.
1:59:55
We're raising half of intervention gains.
1:59:57
Book your trip to Japan now. The the yen is weak.
2:00:02
The best time to go to Japan is maybe now. Who knows?
2:00:05
Uh last thing there was some news maybe it was Friday or Saturday that uh they may be SpaceX may be abandoning the Cursor >> brand. That's right.
2:00:17
>> And just focusing on Grock and uh >> yeah as someone in the peanut gallery that that seems insane.
2:00:25
>> Well they're going to have different products.
2:00:26
There's like Grock for consumer.
2:00:27
There's Grock work which they'll call Gwork.
2:00:28
And I think Gwork could really see a lot of adoption in the better in the enterprise.
2:00:32
Wouldn't you want to use Gwork? I love Gwork. Gwork is Grock Gw.
2:00:36
You just call it Gwork is is great.
2:00:39
That's a brand I can get by.
2:00:42
>> No, to me, Cursor is just an amazing brand.
2:00:45
>> It's love even as a startup and people idolize the founders.
2:00:47
It's such an interesting story.
2:00:49
Michael Trill like goated young kid like builds this amazing product completely dominates in this category going up against anthropic and open gets the deal.
2:00:58
Like there's just so much lore there that's so positive. People love the product. Yeah. No, no.
2:01:04
I I I agree with the peanut gallery.
2:01:06
It is a little bit of a an odd left turn, but uh grocking is maybe the bigger picture, right? Yeah.
2:01:12
Because grocking means to really understand the cursor might go away nowadays.
2:01:16
You know, you're just typing or talking.
2:01:19
You might not even use a cursor. I don't know.
2:01:21
Uh I still like it as a brand.
2:01:23
Like cursor the name is just a great name. Yeah.
2:01:25
Uh but uh we'll we'll we'll see.
2:01:28
I mean the early a year ago like the there was some crazy reporting that showed that I think Grock was banned in more enterprises than it was used in something like that.
2:01:40
The numbers were not good because there was a lot of fear around uh was it going to say something inappropriate?
2:01:43
Was it going to go off the rails?
2:01:45
There were misin I don't think they've solved that just judging by by some of the viral >> post.
2:01:53
Yeah, that might be like a different different fork versus >> Brian says it worked for Twitter.
2:01:56
I would I would I would still push back.
2:02:01
I've tried to be respectful to the to the company and say and say the word X, but Twitter to me again iconic.
2:02:09
>> I think that's I I I think that eventually will be, you know, uh like an uncell a little bit like you you'll be revealing how old you are looking at Twitter. Yeah, it's true.
2:02:18
Um, but uh with uh with Cursor and Grock, like they're the same age and so it's not like people like if they if they sunset the cursor brand and everyone goes Grock or Gwork or whatever they want to call it.
2:02:32
Um, everyone it it won't be the same thing where it's like, oh, I can't stop calling it cursor because it's like, oh well, you only use that for two years.
2:02:39
Whereas with Twitter, it's like for 20 years people were saying Twitter and then all of a sudden it went away. What?
2:02:48
Equis in the X chat says, "Guys, what's your view on the glow up of gentle giant or intuitive iguana?" >> What is that?
2:02:55
>> That is uh Gary Vee had a very viral video over the weekend. >> What happened?
2:03:00
>> Uh talking about talking about his NFT project.
2:03:02
>> Oh, people are still in the NFT projects.
2:03:05
>> He's he's keeping it alive, isn't he? He's still in the game. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That is wild.
2:03:08
I NFT just gives me like a Whoa. Wow.
2:03:12
I was in the trenches or something, you know?
2:03:15
[laughter] I I wasn't personally, but I remember that time as like those are some pretty crazy times. >> Crazy times.
2:03:21
Well, folks, we hope you have some crazy good times this afternoon. >> Thanks for tuning in.
2:03:27
Leave us five stars in Apple Podcast and Spotify.
2:03:29
Sign up for our newsletter at tvpn.
2:03:31
com and we'll see you back here at 11 a. m. Pacific tomorrow. Goodbye.