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4:05
[music] I see multiple journalists on the horizon.
4:20
Stand by >> founder of UAV online. You're watching TVN.
4:35
Today's Monday, July 6th, 2026.
4:38
We are live from the TVN Templar Technology, [applause] the fortress of finance, the capital of capital.
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4:55
Uh, [applause] happy July 4th, everyone.
4:57
I hope everyone had a fantastic weekend.
4:59
How was your fourth, Jordy? Incredible.
5:03
>> It was incredible >> cinema.
5:04
>> Tyler, how was your fourth? >> It was electric.
5:06
>> Can you tell us about that white party that you went to?
5:09
>> You can't talk about that.
5:09
What about the wedding you went to? Was that a fun one?
5:13
That was in New York, right? >> New York. Yeah. >> Manhattan. >> Yeah. Madison Square Garden.
5:16
>> But you can't you can't break it down for us. >> Yeah.
5:19
It's they they told us not to NDA.
5:22
>> Well, I'm glad you had fun. I'm glad you had fun.
5:24
I'm glad everyone had fun.
5:24
Uh my Fourth of July was great.
5:26
It was a little Was it humid?
5:28
>> Did you even get sunburned? No.
5:30
>> You don't even look sunburned. Not sunburned.
5:31
Can't say that for the rest of the team. Half the team over.
5:35
>> He's laring around saying, "Oh, I had the best Fourth of July." Not even sunburned. No. >> Make it make sense. >> Yeah. Shade. Shade.
5:40
You stay in the shade at the right time. >> UV index.
5:44
>> You're not You're not sunburned.
5:44
Why are you >> Oh, I'm brutally sunburned. >> Oh, on the back. >> On my back. >> Okay. Okay, that makes sense. Uh UV index. Was it humid in Malibu? >> Uh, a little bit.
5:54
It was a little humid in Pasadena and it made it feel very East Coast.
5:59
Like it felt like an East Coast Fourth of July to me.
6:01
I went I did East I did East Coast Fourth of July a couple years ago and it was sort of refreshing. I don't know. It was nice.
6:09
Uh but >> uh drone shows were in this year.
6:13
>> Yes, fireworks are out given the Palisades fire, the Aladina fire.
6:15
So a lot of townships are playing it safe with uh drone shows instead of fireworks.
6:22
Um, which is I don't know. I feel like it's cool. I like a drone show.
6:28
I've only seen one when we were in France. It was cool.
6:30
I don't have a problem with it.
6:33
But I'm anticipating a backlash.
6:35
I'm anticipating that people will be like, we got to go back to the organic authentic fireworks. Right. >> Yeah.
6:42
>> But >> yeah, they're like, I like when the air quality is terrible. >> Okay.
6:46
It's an air quality risk for you. You notice that?
6:50
>> I didn't notice it this year. Did you see fireworks?
6:52
>> I I I honestly >> I didn't see >> didn't see a single sleep.
6:57
>> I [laughter] didn't see a single firework. >> I was up at 6:00 a. m.
6:58
So, I went to bed at like 9.
7:00
>> I did not see a single firework on the 4th of July, which is crazy.
7:02
I heard some around, >> but uh I remember when I lived in LA, >> the air quality would genuinely be terrible for >> at least a few days because it just sits in there and if there's no wind.
7:15
>> When I lived in Echo Park, it was like fireworks everywhere.
7:18
It's the craziest neighborhood because people in the neighborhood buy the production level fireworks.
7:25
You know how normally you get like a sparkler or you get something that like shoots off a little?
7:29
>> No, they buy the the same thing that you see at like Dodger Stadium like the cannon that goes off and goes boom that but they they don't coordinate them.
7:35
So it's not like there's music that's playing and then it's sync see synced up and there's an finale.
7:40
It's just whenever someone feels like lighting went off it goes uh full fireworks scale.
7:46
Uh there's some really cool like helicopter video shots of Los Angeles during I think Fourth of July where they go really really crazy.
7:52
But >> Delian would do is like I'm gonna go fly my plane >> at 900 p. m. on the 4th of July. Yeah.
8:01
And just get into >> I have some crazy video of the fireworks show at Dodger Stadium before there were regulations around drones.
8:07
I had one of the first drones and I flew it like through the fireworks and then spectacular footage.
8:13
I'll I'll have to play it on the show one day.
8:15
uh wildly illegal by modern drone standards, but at the time no one knew uh how to regulate those things.
8:21
So you could just fly them anywhere uh which was really really crazy but a lot of fun.
8:25
Anyway, let me tell you about Cisco.
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8:31
So [applause] big changes at Microsoft, big changes at Xbox.
8:36
Xbox is cutting 3,200 jobs by the end of next year.
8:41
And here's where it gets interesting.
8:43
not because of artificial intelligence.
8:44
AI uh the new CEO of Xbox has been very clear that they're not stuffing AI everywhere.
8:51
They're going back to their roots, but they are focused on efficiency.
8:53
And so the newly appointed Xbox CEO Asha Sharma has announced this morning that Xbox will lay off 3,200 staffers by the end of 2027 with 1600 layoffs taking place today.
9:06
Uh she posted her full email to Xbox employees on X.
9:11
uh and it's very candid about the operational failures and trajectory of the company.
9:16
>> Very notable that the first major layoff from a major company just admits that the business is not healthy and doesn't blame it on AI.
9:25
>> Yes, >> we have we haven't we have not seen a layoff of this scale. >> Yes.
9:28
>> That wasn't at least partially credit credited to like the productivity increases that we're seeing from AI. >> Yes.
9:37
And this feels like the most honest layoff and they're sort of forced into doing it because of the gaming community is like so anti- AI, right? >> Yeah.
9:49
>> Few things that are going on.
9:49
So yeah, we need to break this debate into strategic.
9:53
Should they be doing layoffs?
9:56
What does this mean for the Xbox business?
9:57
And then uh the communications around it as well because the communications, we can dig into what she actually said.
10:02
Uh in her email she says the business is not healthy and lists a bunch of surprisingly bad trends and aspects of the operation.
10:08
Uh one Xbox is operating at margins three to 10 times lower than its competitors.
10:14
Uh it released its latest console to a smaller install base while the cost structure of the console itself was higher.
10:20
Of course memory prices are going up now and so the cost of these consoles is going to be even higher in the future.
10:27
And in some of the parts, in some parts of the company, work has to pass through as many as 14 layers of management. Wow, that's a lot.
10:35
In a typical year, Xbox lost 64 cents for every dollar it invested.
10:40
In addition to the layoffs, Asha said that Xbox will spin out game studios that it acquired over the years.
10:46
Compulsion games, Double Fine Productions, Ninja Theory, Undead Labs, and Arcane are all getting yeated in one way or another from the company.
10:53
>> Has been running Xbox into the ground for the love of the game.
10:58
You mean running it unprofitably for the love of the game? >> No, no, no.
11:02
>> Because I do I do agree that they faced really fierce competition.
11:05
PS5 has a ton of amazing exclusives and then Nintendo has Nintendo the N64 used to compete directly with the PlayStation.
11:12
It was like, did you get an N64 or a PlayStation?
11:16
And then once Xbox came in, PlayStation and Xbox, they fought for every exclusive.
11:20
And by and large, you could play Call of Duty on either.
11:23
You could play most of the games.
11:24
Madden was on both of them.
11:26
And so you would sort of decide, oh, I got some friends on Xbox.
11:30
I'm on the Xbox crew or I'm in the PlayStation world.
11:33
But then Nintendo went off and just did something completely different with the Switch.
11:35
PC gaming continued to grow and became more and more accessible on more and more, you know, devices.
11:42
So even even a laptop that you might get for school can still play most of the cate of the library on Steam.
11:50
And so you have more competition.
11:53
And then you also have mobile like the hyper casual games are taking mind share.
11:57
People are scrolling Tik Tok.
11:58
There are tons of free entertainment resources that they compete with.
12:01
This is something all the all the movie studios love to say.
12:05
>> People are making >> Yeah.
12:06
>> podcasts like podcast have this.
12:09
>> No, you can be gaming while you watch this. We We approve.
12:11
>> No, I'm saying because you're making this, you're not gaming. >> Oh, yeah.
12:15
>> You were spending at least back in the day. >> Yeah.
12:18
>> Pretty penny on >> That's true. That's true. Um, so yeah.
12:22
uh they they're they're they're tightening up operations at Xbox.
12:28
The question I think on everyone's mind is will Xbox be spun out as a standalone entity at some point?
12:32
Uh is it too far a field from the core uh Microsoft uh mission? There was a move.
12:39
Xbox was seen as a foothold into consumer for Microsoft.
12:45
Of course, with the way Azure's grown in their cloud platform and their cloud business, really it feels like Microsoft is having the biggest win in in enterprise and teams and uh and cloud and all of the workforce uh and productivity tools that they launch.
13:04
Obviously, they're very big in AI.
13:05
Um, and so the idea that the Xbox would be at one point they it came with uh the best 4K Blu-ray player, an Xbox One S.
13:16
I believe you can get one of these for a hundred bucks right now.
13:19
It's actually a great steal if you want to go uh physical media, which is very popular with parents these days.
13:23
Instead of, oh yeah, scroll the, you know, endless feed of Netflix and and Disney Plus.
13:31
Instead of that, it's like, you like Toy Story, we got you Toy Story on 4K Blu-ray.
13:34
you can put it in the box and it's a h 100red bucks which is six months of a streaming service.
13:38
So, uh a lot of people are are starting to physical media max a little bit more.
13:44
But, uh the idea was that you would get this Xbox and you would get it because you were a gamer, you want to play games, but you also had an HD DVD player, Blu-ray player, and it would also serve as like your home media console and they would grow from there, get the foothold into the into the consumer market.
13:59
But that never really materialized.
14:01
Most people, if they have an Xbox, they use it to play one specific set of games.
14:05
They might have a PS5 as well and Nintendo Switch as well.
14:09
And then if they're in the Apple ecosystem and they play Xbox games on the weekend, they're not lamenting the lack of integration there.
14:14
They're like, "Yeah, it's fine."
14:15
Like, I play the games over there.
14:17
I talk to people on the iPhone. It's fine.
14:19
Um, so let's read through a little bit of Asha's post to see because there's this there's this key decision to announce 3,200 layoffs throughout fiscal year 2027, but announce only 1,600 today.
14:36
The question is strategically, what does that do for morale?
14:43
like because you sort of have this guillotine hanging over everyone.
14:48
Is this a good incentive for everyone to lock in and not and make the cut because you know another cut is coming.
14:52
Is it is it going to stop complacency in the organization or is it going to make everyone start looking for other jobs and think h like I could get fired at any moment?
15:02
They've already teed up 1600 layoffs.
15:05
If I'm likely to be in that, maybe I should be looking for another job right now.
15:09
Now, that could be good because maybe those aren't the missionaries who you want on the team, but um what do you think about the idea of announcing to your company that there are layoffs today and there's also a whole bunch more coming down the pipe?
15:26
>> Xbox/ Microsoft Gaming has around 16,000 employees.
15:30
So, this cut is quite significant. >> Yes.
15:34
>> Uh I think that uh at least in startups, >> it's 10% today.
15:39
10% within the next year. >> Yeah.
15:41
At least in startups, the uh the best advice that I've ever gotten uh and and would typically talk with founders in my portfolio about is like if you need to do cuts, >> cut deep, right?
15:54
And this is like maybe at least uh this is like a talking point for at least like five significant founders and investors, right?
16:03
Like a lot of people just repeat this, right?
16:06
And I think I think it generally holds true.
16:08
It's better to I think the question is like why did they feel like they needed to cut 1,600 today and then also keep a 1,600 cut in the in the tank?
16:17
Like do they need like is is there some >> and do they know who those 1600 people are and they're like we just 12 months to let them finish what they're doing or is it that we haven't even identified them?
16:32
We just suspect >> and and either way doesn't necessarily seem that great, right?
16:35
Because if you've identified who you're going to cut, like you should probably just do it now.
16:41
>> It's much better to just do a big cut and then say, "Look, everyone who's still on the ship, we're going on the offensive.
16:46
We're going to be hiring in these areas.
16:48
We're this is where we're winning.
16:50
So, everyone get on because we're going on a big run right now.
16:52
Uh we, you know, had to shrink a little bit, but now we're on the offensive in this particular with this particular strategy." Uh >> but who knows?
17:02
They they certainly understand the implications of doing this.
17:06
So, there's probably >> there's there's certainly a strategy to >> uh Microsoft as a whole is laying off 4,800 employees, which is 2. 1% of its workforce.
17:16
This is a massive company and you have to wonder because they're obviously hiring as well.
17:20
like will the company shrink this year on the back of these layoffs or will they just do 2% layoffs and then wind up growing the company 3% and so they wind up a larger organization at the end of the year.
17:32
Uh there's some interesting history here because Microsoft has had a long history of uh rank and yank stack ranking they invented.
17:42
Uh it was always a hardcore culture.
17:44
People sort of forget this about Microsoft because it's such a dominant tech company that of course they got lumped in with the you know nap rooms and free lunches but uh in fact uh back in the late 70s and 80s Microsoft was famously intense very tiny teams huge deadlines technical arguments uh Gates Bill Gates was personally reviewing work and they had a culture that rewarded extreme competence.
18:07
It was sort of a an Elon Musk type endeavor at that time.
18:12
who's not nice, still founder led and product obsessed.
18:14
Uh, Vanity Fair had a had a profile on the company uh, in 2012 describes young Microsoft as thrilling but also unnerving with Gates demanding intense commitment from hires and Balmer joining in 1980 as the hard charging business operator.
18:29
>> Maybe Asha wants the new culture at Xbox to be thrilling and a little unnerving.
18:35
Maybe maybe so in the 90s uh they started to develop a monopoly Windows 95 office there was a lot of lock in to Excel Word business was just printing cash uh and Microsoft became enormous rich internally competitive uh the company still had the old uh smart
18:52
people brutal review ship or die energy but it was becoming more layered as we saw 14 layers of management at Xbox in some cases uh stack ranking uh became part of the culture um But no one really knows exactly when exactly what date it went into uh effect. But a former
19:08
But a former Microsoft employee writing in Geekwire said stack ranking had been an integral part of Microsoft culture for decades and that when he joined in 1999 it was often viewed positively as a part of Microsoft's meritocracy.
19:21
And so uh this so stack ranking was you rank all the employees you put them on this bell curve.
19:28
you're sort of grading on a curve is are you have a couple A players but then there's certain people that are falling behind and and everyone knows where they sit in the organization >> this for me just with the team. >> Yeah. Yeah.
19:41
Of course >> that would be helpful. >> Yeah. Yeah.
19:43
Um I'd give myself S tier UF tier and uh I think I think we can start and end. [laughter] No.
19:52
uh but Balmer came in and uh and and people started pointing to stack ranking as a little bit more of dysfunction.
19:57
Of course, there were other uh strategic missteps during the Balmer era and the stock was flat and this is what what birth stratey is as soon as Ben Thompson left Microsoft.
20:08
He had tons to write about because he was there during the the pre-Sata era when they were trying to get into mobile and and did so unsuccessfully.
20:15
Then Satcha comes in, the pivot to cloud, the business does very well and uh everything's off to the races again.
20:21
But during the infamous Balmer era, uh there was a forced curve performance review.
20:26
Managers had to distribute employees into buckets.
20:28
So even a strong team had to produce winners and losers.
20:32
So there even if you love everyone on your team, the bottom 10% is going to be labeled the bottom 10%.
20:38
And that creates a lot of stress.
20:41
But it can also create a lot of incentive and a lot of excitement.
20:42
Uh it can be tough but fair sometimes.
20:44
But uh ABC >> thrilling and unnerving.
20:48
>> Thrilling and unnerving.
20:48
Uh ABC, >> how would you describe your corporate environment? Thrilling and unnerving.
20:55
>> Better than just unnerving.
20:55
I'd rather have some thrill in there. I don't know. You sort of opt into it.
20:59
You know, ideally, ideally, this is all out in the open.
21:02
It comes out in the hiring process. You don't go in blind.
21:04
You know what you're getting.
21:06
But of course, of course, cultures change over time.
21:07
If you've been with a company for a decade, you might say, "I I signed up for, you know, a chill monopoly. Why are we wartime?
21:16
I'm a peaceime employee, you know, or vice versa."
21:18
Um and then might it might be time to find another opportunity.
21:21
Uh so ABC summarized it as managers grading on the bell curve.
21:26
Vanity fair's critique was harsher.
21:26
They said former and current employees described stack ranking as the most destructive process inside Microsoft because it made employees compete with teammates instead of competitors. It's a good point.
21:39
I mean you should in some ways just be like, "Yeah, you smoke the competition.
21:43
Doesn't matter that you were the worst at smoking the competition.
21:46
At least you did some smoking." >> Yeah.
21:48
But uh they always did normal.
21:48
So the question is like like is the layoffs that are happening at Xbox the layoffs that happened last year at Microsoft they laid off 9,000 people.
21:58
This year it's under 5,000. Is this new?
22:00
Is this is this a new trend or is this just a continuation of the stack ranking process? It actually is new.
22:06
Stack ranking would push out lowrated people sometimes.
22:12
would block promotions, reduce bonuses, uh force transfers, but they weren't necessarily doing mass layoffs around it.
22:18
That's sort of a misconception.
22:19
So even if they look at all the static ranking at the end of the year and they say, okay, these people are clearly in the bottom 10%.
22:24
They saw it more as an opportunity to reallocate talent from different pieces, different teams.
22:31
And it wasn't always, okay, every at the end of every year we're just firing the bottom 10%. >> Yeah.
22:35
Bottom 10% on one team might be top 10% on another team. >> Exactly.
22:40
>> Exactly. which again thrilling but unnerving >> but it's not it's not full guillotine you're going to be out of a job if you're in the bottom 10% it's more okay you need to find a better opportunity within the organization you're still on the team now we are in a different uh we're in a different a different world
22:55
because uh the first mass layoff at Microsoft actually came in 2009 after the great financial crisis uh it announced a plan to cut 5,000 jobs during the financial crisis uh and it was the first mass layoff for Microsoft I mean that's 40year 30-year run uh without without any layoffs, just growth, growth, growth. Uh, but layoffs
23:10
Uh, but layoffs eventually became a more normal corporate behavior in 2014 under Sachin Nadella.
23:17
Microsoft announced up to 18,000 cuts, mostly tied to integrating Nokia's phone business.
23:22
So, postacquisition, they dduplicated some teams.
23:27
Of course, Nokia has, you know, marketers and and finance people and a lot of things that are not directly tied to that product.
23:33
If they're bringing the companies together, uh, there might be some, uh, reduction in force.
23:36
Uh Microsoft's own announcement framed as reorganization uh focuses on this uh reorganizational simplification.
23:42
Uh Reuters reported that about 12,500 of those Nokia related cuts were related to the acquisition directly.
23:50
Um the system officially ended in 2013.
23:53
So they're not doing stack ranking anymore.
23:55
Just before Nadella took over, Microsoft killed the nu numerical forced ranking and moved towards more qualitative frequent reviews.
24:04
I bet there's still some some OG managers there that are doing a little cheeky stack ranking. >> I miss it maybe. Who knows?
24:09
Um, but overall, is there cause for optimism with Xbox?
24:15
It's the hardest gaming platform to be excited about when you think about Valve.
24:20
It's just a money printing machine on top of PC.
24:22
Uh, the PC gaming industry broadly is is doing well and and PlayStation's done such a good job.
24:32
Sony's done such a good job with PlayStation with creating like true intellectual property.
24:37
You think about Last of Us, which is now an HBO series, and that is a PlayStation exclusive, at least for a certain amount of time.
24:43
I believe they own Naughty Dog, the publisher of that, or the uh uh the the the game developer.
24:50
And so there's a lot there's fewer and fewer exclusives.
24:52
And when when Microsoft bought Activision, there was talk of will Call of Duty go exclusive to Xbox because that would be sort of a killer feature that would get a lot of gamers even if they're in the PS5 ecosystem.
25:07
They say, "Well, I want to play Call of Duty.
25:08
I'll get an Xbox as well."
25:10
Uh they chose not to do that for potentially antitrust reasons.
25:15
>> You can't necessarily cut. >> Yeah.
25:16
The uh I don't follow the video game industry.
25:21
>> Loser alerts video games.
25:23
But the thing that's easy to get excited [laughter] about with Xbox is Modern Warfare 2 Rust and 1v oneing >> your best friends.
25:33
>> Yes, but you buy it in the secondary market.
25:34
That's not any pennies income statement. It's rough over there.
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25:49
Well, if you've done enough Forza Horizon 5, Forza Horizon 6, you've burned out on your gaming simulator with your Xbox, you got to get over to Ferrari and pick up a Dolce Trelindri Manual.
26:05
>> Let's pull up this video.
26:06
>> The 12 Cylindry is the first car with a gated manual shifter to come out of Marinelo since 2012.
26:14
>> Have you noticed that they said shifter, not >> transmission? >> Transmission. Yeah, shifter.
26:18
That's what people wanted, right? We'll debate it. Let's play this video. >> And a shifter. It's a 6. >> Let's see. >> Hell's frozen over. Pigs can fly.
26:27
And Ferrari is building a new car with a manual transmission.
26:31
This is the 12cylindry Manuel.
26:33
As you can see, it's a manual gearbox in a Ferrari.
26:36
And what it really is is a mode of the 8-speed DCT, but Ferrari has added a clutch pedal and a shifter.
26:44
It's a six-speed shifter.
26:46
When you switch to manual mode, the shift knob turns amber in color, but you can also leave it in automatic.
26:53
Unlike the other 12C Landreies, there's no paddle shifters, which you'll notice.
26:57
There's if you want manual mode, uh you push the clutch in, provided you're going under 62 mph, it'll go into manual mode and then you can start driving.
27:05
They tell us you can stall it.
27:05
So, if you are too quick with the clutch, too quick with releasing the clutch, if you try to start it in second or third gear, you pop the clutch, you'll stall it.
27:12
If you push the clutch in, you can rev it to the 9500 RPM red line and do a massive clutch drop.
27:19
Um, it does have some safeguards.
27:21
If you try to do, you know, a six to one shift or some shift that isn't allowable, it won't let you do it.
27:27
Ferrari put a ton of effort into the shift feel.
27:29
So, you can sort of as you move from the center plane, there is a little bit of resistance to sort of simulate the synchronizers meshing and then it sort of falls into gear.
27:38
So, it feels very much like a manual gearbox in a Ferrari has always felt, provided that gearbox is warmed up.
27:45
As you can see, the gated shifter is here.
27:46
The clicks are very much here.
27:49
Although the DCT is an 8-speed, you only get six speeds with the manual transmission, which lowers the top speed from over 200 mph, I think 211 mph in seventh gear red line to sixth gear, which is at the 9500 RPM red line to 196 miles an hour.
28:05
So, if you want to go just that little bit faster for top speed, switch it into the automatic mode.
28:10
The Moninole goes on sale at the beginning of next year, at the beginning of 2027.
28:14
Um, Ferrari has said that the price will be right around half a million dollars for starters.
28:18
I'm sure most of them will be optioned out with a lots of goodies and cost a lot more.
28:24
They're building $1,499 of them, and I would imagine they're already spoken for.
28:29
But this sort of does give us a look that Ferrari sees the value in the manual transmission.
28:37
They love the connection of it.
28:37
Their customers had been asking for it.
28:39
They didn't really have a manual transmission to put in the car.
28:42
But with this solution, this essentially a manual mode with a shifter and a clutch.
28:48
They have shown us that it is possible to take a dual clutch and make the manual experience happen for buyers.
28:54
So, I'm hoping this trickles down into the rest of the lineup. >> Okay. manual by wire.
28:59
They're trying to answer every they don't make them like they used to complaint.
29:08
How does it land with you?
29:08
Do you think this checks the box?
29:10
Does this count as a manual Ferrari?
29:13
Are they giving their manual fans what they want or is this a poor similocum of what it means to have three pedals?
29:24
>> I think it's a obvious step in the right direction.
29:27
I think a lot of people will be satisfied with this. >> I don't know.
29:31
I think this checks enough are in shambles.
29:33
I'm in shambble over the spec that they use in that example. >> Why?
29:38
>> Uh I just think it looks terrible.
29:40
>> It does look very very base spec. Yeah.
29:42
>> But uh but I think this is a fantastic >> TJ Parker does not like it.
29:46
He says this is far more embarrassing than the luch face plant.
29:51
And people are saying, "Wow, that's bad.
29:53
As long as it's fun, who cares?" cares. TJ Parker says he cares.
29:58
Uh, it's corny, but Koenig seg approved by the new Bugatti CEO seems >> Look, when I see this, I think that they're going to sell at least 1,499 Luches because you have to imagine if you want >> They claim they're not doing >> They claim they're not doing it.
30:14
>> Then you're going to need to buy a luch.
30:16
They claim they're not doing it.
30:16
They obviously will be doing it. >> You think so?
30:19
Uh the these are never things that are these are never rules that are written down anywhere, but they are understood.
30:27
>> The details are are hilarious and kind of brilliant. Look at listen to this.
30:29
Uh you can skip gears, heel toe, downshift, and even stall the car if you mess up the clutch.
30:35
But the system will also stop you from doing something truly stupid like over revving the engine or money shifting the car into the wrong gear.
30:43
If you're not familiar with the money shift, that's where you shift g you skip a gear too much and it grinds the gears and you have to pay for uh to uh fix your engine, which costs a lot of money, especially in a 12cylinder Ferrari.
30:58
Uh the it's slower if you shift it yourself and you need automatic mode to hit the full 211 mph top speed, but that's basically the whole point.
31:08
Ferrari customers apparently told the company that they were willing to trade performance for the old school physical joy of driving a gated manual.
31:15
>> Ultimately, I like that they're partially listening to customers.
31:17
It seems like >> we're not necessarily fully listening to customers because I don't know any of Ferrari's, you know, out of the handful of Ferrari's top customers that I know. >> Yeah.
31:28
>> I don't know any that were like, "Yeah, give me a fly by wire like gated man, you know, gated manual."
31:34
Yeah, >> they were not asking for that, >> but they were asking for the experience.
31:38
They were asking for >> a knob that you can put your hand on, >> three pedals, but they want the third pedal.
31:44
Uh, I am thinking of the Hyundai Ionic 5N.
31:49
Are you familiar with this vehicle?
31:52
>> You've told me all about it.
31:52
So, the Hyundai Ionic 5N is a an electric hatchback essentially, but uh the gentleman who runs Hyundai's N division formerly ran BMW's M division.
32:03
What's the letter that comes after M? It's N.
32:09
So, he went over to Hyundai and said, "Give me a bunch of your cars and I will create M versions, performance versions of these cars."
32:16
Now, Hyundai is funny because it's like a family car company for the most part.
32:21
Not the same muscle car, German performance, ultimate driving machine base to work with at like at BMW.
32:29
But that individual has done a fantastic job adding some drama to what it feels like to drive an electric Hyundai.
32:37
Uh, specifically with the Hyundai Ionic 5N, it has something like 600 horsepower, very quick on the track.
32:44
uh because of the position of the uh battery, it stays very planted even though it is a heavy vehicle.
32:50
Um so it is good on the track in automatic mode, but they added paddle shifters and a simulated dual clutch transmission mode.
33:02
[snorts] And it pipes in fake noise from a fake engine and you can redline it virtually and it's almost like >> Can you roll it physically?
33:10
You can physically roll it if you get really crazy, I'm sure.
33:14
Um, but it's a very interesting uh it's very interesting because it has all the hallmarks of something that would be hated by the car community, but in fact, when I watched a lot of reviewers, a lot of car fans drive it, they said, "Yeah, after a couple laps on the track, it just felt like a lot of fun." And it was just fun.
33:36
And also at the price point, you're getting the performance of a two to $300,000 car probably. Uh 600 horsepower.
33:44
It feels like a manual and you can really throw it around and drift it and do all sorts of fun stuff uh with a much lower entry price.
33:52
And so I was surprised that we didn't see that technology quickly come to the TYON and other electric sort of sports cars.
34:01
Uh I think it will eventually. I think it takes time.
34:06
Uh, also the the the sound choice was interesting.
34:09
They used they used the exhaust from another Hyundai instead of like licensing something more brrawy or powerful or more exciting.
34:17
Um, but there's clearly something there that I don't I don't know if the car is selling very well, but it was at least satisfying to the critical eye of, you know, Matt Farah. Yeah. Which was interesting. So, >> yeah.
34:29
Uh, it's funny cuz our our dear friend TJ, no matter what Ferrari does, he just hates it.
34:34
He's just I haven't I haven't seen there has not been a launch.
34:39
>> He was sort of pro Luch.
34:41
He was he was re >> but he says this is far more embarrassing than the Luch. >> Yeah.
34:45
>> You're saying that's a positive stance.
34:47
>> He took a he took a heretical stance on >> I'm actually the the Ferrari that I'm most excited about is the is the street legal version of the 296 challenge.
34:54
M >> I think that's going to be a hit cuz that's that's obviously it's going to be paddles. >> Sure.
35:03
>> But uh internal combustion engine, they're ditching the all the the hybrid stuff.
35:08
>> They should they should have a version, you know, the really old uh Model T, like the really old cars, we had to crank them to start from the front.
35:15
They should have a virtual version of that.
35:19
So, it's like a fully electric car, 2,000 horsepower, [laughter] 400 mile range, but you you can get out a a crank from the back of the trunk and crank it to start it. That would be very fun.
35:32
>> Yeah, >> something like that.
35:33
>> But anyways, step in the right direction.
35:36
>> Give them some credit.
35:36
They are partially listening to their customers.
35:39
I think between the luch >> and the 12C manual, they're solving their emissions >> problems >> in the headed in the right direction.
35:49
And I do think that uh the luch will have been a big enough wakeup call because it's something that no one can defend. >> Okay.
35:58
The luche, famously low slung, famously small windows.
36:01
Should they do a version with huge square windows like this old Land Rover? Do you see this?
36:09
Was just noticing how bad this has gotten.
36:11
One of the primary appeals of retro cars is the big old square windows. Are you a fan of this? Is this a Discovery?
36:16
I don't know which one this is, but uh I I was watching an old 90s. >> Is that not a range? >> I don't know.
36:23
Um I was watching an old '9s um like is this >> Okay, pull up the car that >> comedy or something.
36:31
Which one >> if you click in?
36:34
>> Whoa, that is so ridiculous.
36:34
Uh, why are we building cars where the window sills are at chin level?
36:40
Why is greenhouse Why is the greenhouse less than a third of the height of the vehicle?
36:45
Oh, the greenhouse is the top. Interesting.
36:46
I've never heard that term.
36:48
Uh, why is the DOT Where's the DOT?
36:50
Can we maybe add seat height or reduce waistline? Maybe both.
36:56
>> You know where we're headed, John. >> Safety standards. What?
36:58
>> You know where we're headed? >> Pod. No windows. No windows. TVs on the inside. >> Scrolling reels. >> It's the future. Whimo. They own YouTube. YouTube Shorts.
37:07
Put them right in the Whimos.
37:09
>> Yeah, they like to put YouTube shorts everywhere. Yeah.
37:12
>> I mean, the experience of using YouTube today is just >> searching for a long form video.
37:17
>> There's a lot of Would you like 25 reels? >> Yep.
37:20
>> Would you like to scroll past 25 reels? >> Yeah.
37:23
>> Before we get to what you actually want.
37:27
And uh I wouldn't be surprised if we see reels going up the front of the Whimo.
37:32
>> Maybe, maybe separate companies. We'll see.
37:34
We'll see how long they stick together.
37:36
Uh the Model Y L from Tesla is coming to the United States.
37:40
It's now available in the United States and Puerto Rico.
37:43
Deliveries are still a couple months out, but it's a three row, six seat configuration for the Model Y.
37:50
It's longer than the standard Model Y.
37:53
Uh, it brings exceptional interior space with ample headroom and leg room for all passengers. 0 to 60 in 4. 4 seconds. 325 miles of range.
38:01
Front row heated ventilated seats.
38:03
They all have power recline. Improved air flow. More trunk space. Active damping.
38:09
Staggered tires for an enhanced grip.
38:12
Longer tailgate for better rear visibility.
38:15
Upgraded 50 watt wireless charging pads.
38:18
I haven't seen the wireless charging pads in the wild yet.
38:23
That seems like a cool innovation for your home charger.
38:25
Can be a little bit slower because it's overnight, but every night so you don't even need to deal with the plug.
38:32
Remember at one point Tesla was going to build that crazy robotic snake that was going to plug in.
38:36
Do you remember this thing? >> No.
38:38
>> We got to find a video of this. Look that up, Tyler.
38:39
that up, Tyler. the the Tesla power wall at one point had a robotic snake I can only describe as a robotic snake and it would find your Tesla's power char uh power port no matter where you parked as long as you were in range of the robot that's cool and it would plug in uh and
38:57
they were they were pitching this as something that they would roll out probably extremely complicated from a mechanical perspective uh and so it never wound up uh delivering to the United States at least but uh or anywhere But, uh, cool idea, but wireless charging pad, obviously much more, uh, easy to just throw on the floor. Also, uh, used in the McLaren
39:17
Also, uh, used in the McLaren Speed Tail.
39:20
The McLaren Speed Tail uses an inductive wireless charging pad.
39:22
That is, and I think the Macan EV might also have or maybe the Cayenne EV.
39:28
One of the Porsches also has the wireless charging pad.
39:33
And there's a whole bunch of smart technology in it to make sure that if like a mouse doesn't go across, it doesn't get fried or or an animal is not injured by it.
39:40
It's a pretty high-tech device, but um we can find the Tesla uh the Tesla charger snake. Here it is. The the image. Look at this, Jordy. This is a crazy image. Look at that.
39:51
This is clearly a demo unit, but you can imagine how you pull into your garage and it it finds itself and plugs itself in.
39:58
Seems like depending on where you park, that could be extremely annoying because if it if it if it plugs in, you have to kind of climb over climb under this thing.
40:09
That could actually be uh worse than just a normal uh >> Yeah.
40:14
It will also be unfortunate when >> hackers discover a back door rises up and it, you know, kills you in your sleep. Yes.
40:22
>> So, I can see why they didn't ship this at least yet.
40:24
>> Well, there's other Tesla announcements.
40:27
The Tesla Model Y dual zone fridge, $600, fits in the sub trunk and has two separate compartments that can be fit set to different temperatures from 0 to 68 degrees Fahrenheit.
40:37
You plug it into the outlet. I I love this.
40:40
I think it's so cool that there's like this gadget that fits into the other thing that they have.
40:45
Like they have the front trunk.
40:45
No one's really doing anything with it.
40:47
Why not throw a couple >> Yeah.
40:50
Not a lot of manufacturers are really willing to promote having 30 to 40 beers hitting the road and [laughter] having 30 to 40 beers.
41:00
>> I don't think these are beers in this image. What is this? Lollipop. I don't know.
41:04
I think it's uh blood orange.
41:04
I don't know which one this is, but they did put some ice cream.
41:08
The ice cream looks pretty generic.
41:10
I don't know if that's a a known brand.
41:12
Um >> there's also a mattress. >> Yeah, mattress. Cybertruck mattress. That's I don't know.
41:21
>> They've always they've always uh >> had those mods.
41:24
>> I I've always thought their accessories are are quite cool.
41:26
>> I think it's I think it's difficult for other car manufacturers to do first party accessories because they have so many SKs.
41:32
Whereas when you're selling as many Model Y's as they are and as many vehicles that have that exact trunk configuration with that exact port, uh you can you can underwrite the mass manufacturing a lot easier than if you're, you know, Kia or Hyundai and you have 25 different vehicles all with slightly different configurations.
41:52
>> Um well, uh where else should we go?
41:52
Let me tell you about public. com.
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42:03
Uh there was a a team that figured out how to order pizza with iMessage using artificial intelligence and uh people are not as impressed as they should be uh because the the image is uh AI, please press the order me pizza button.
42:23
And it w is wired up to press the order pizza button.
42:26
Yes, Door Dash sort of already created an artificial intelligence for having food delivered to you.
42:32
There is a button and you can sort of reimagine the UI in a very in a different way.
42:37
Uh, Vibe Code, a button that orders you the most recent thing or or interfaces with a text message. Uh, somewhat cool.
42:44
Uh, I think the the the bullcase for what Arlin is working on is that uh, iMessage is a more universal interface.
42:52
text is the universal interface.
42:55
Uh in a future world where uh you know everything is done via voice or via an agent or via text stream.
43:02
Uh having a centralized place and not having to use a bunch of different apps and have the best app at the right time and this one's on discount, that one's not, and this one's your payments information saved.
43:12
Having all of that happen below the fold is just another layer to the user experience in the modern era that it feels like it's on the way.
43:22
feels like it's on the way. you you've been able to order an Uber with Siri for a decade but no one does because it's not ready it was not ready for prime time but uh we are getting there to the point where this will happen uh but it is a is a slow slow roll out uh the the
43:39
AI chat apps were on a dominant run for a long time open at the top with chatbt I think Gemini and Claude were sort of going back and forth from number two and three and you were lamenting you were saying like what's going on in the app store it's Yeah, this morning I was I I was checking the app store charts. Good
43:54
Good indicator of interest.
43:56
Uh we have Khi at number one. >> It's the world.
44:01
>> Netflix game controller at number two.
44:05
>> Peacock at number three. Fox one at number four.
44:08
Let's give it up for Fox.
44:12
Trump Accounts at number five. Chad BT at six. Threads at seven.
44:15
Let's give it up for Connor Hayes. >> Conor Hayes.
44:19
>> Uh Telmundo at number eight. >> Telmundo.
44:21
Oh, >> Poly Market at number nine.
44:22
Gemini closing out the top 10. >> 11, Fubo. >> 12, Claude. >> 13, Deop. >> Deepop.
44:32
>> Deepop out of nowhere. >> That's shopping. >> Google number 14. >> Okay.
44:36
>> The fact that Google >> all over the place. >> Uh yeah.
44:39
And then and and then from there it's a bunch of uh a lot of uh you know real short drama wave all these short uh there's there's a company called Vibe Short AI comic dramas.
44:52
>> Oh >> bite-size comic dramas.
44:52
Tyler, can you watch like a few hours of these and and report back?
44:59
>> I absolutely do not >> tomorrow. >> Absolutely do not.
45:03
>> No, I I'm genuinely curious.
45:03
This this uh app has come out of nowhere. >> Yeah.
45:08
And we and we talked to the founder of True Short or is it Real Short?
45:12
True Short is the American company.
45:14
Real short is the Chinese company. Correct.
45:16
>> And uh he's at True Short.
45:16
He's working on true crime AI generated short form video.
45:22
Uh interesting to see where that's going.
45:24
I mean certainly demand for this stuff.
45:25
The trough must be filled.
45:28
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45:40
>> Can we play this video? >> Yeah. >> From >> Joe Rogan. >> Joe Rogan.
45:45
>> Joe Rogan is uh talking to the CEO of Perplexity, Arvin.
45:51
>> Two paths to curiosity.
45:51
One that can kill it and one that can supercharge it.
45:55
>> In my opinion, the one that kills curiosity is algorithmic feeds.
45:57
like >> the the brain rot that you're fed every day with just, you know, this continuous doom scrolling. >> That's bad.
46:07
>> Um, and the one that can supercharge it is AI. >> Okay.
46:11
Like now that you could just ask >> pause >> whatever you want if everybody >> Thank you.
46:17
Uh, this is probably true from a from a maybe more macro sense like if you're sometimes good ideas do come to you.
46:27
Some people say in the shower, to me, it's in the sauna.
46:32
>> Uh I think there's clearly inspiration that comes when you're not doing anything at all.
46:38
>> But that being said, I get so many ideas from the feed. >> Oo, okay.
46:42
>> Don't you >> hot take. I like that.
46:44
>> Like how many uh yesterday I sent you something >> feed? Yeah.
46:48
>> Yesterday I sent you a link that I that I saw on X and I was like, "Hey, we should do something like this for this other thing." >> Sure.
46:54
I don't I don't remember what you were talking about because I'm completely zoned out.
46:58
>> You were you were just you were in the feed.
47:00
Um and and I don't typically once I have inspiration then I'm going to AI right then I'm going and exploring the idea and saying has how has this been done before in this way >> or I was looking at uh incidents where heads of state have interfered with the World Cup. >> Yes. Yes.
47:20
>> Uh which was interesting.
47:20
Uh, >> so I I think that I I like your I like your hot take pushing back on that idea.
47:29
I do think >> because where would we pre- internet if you wanted inspiration you would go to the library or >> stumble upon baby stumble upon you ever stumble upon >> post internet >> that's not post internet that was like web one boom it was like take me to a random website >> yeah but I'm saying before before the
47:46
internet was popular if you were an artist and you wanted inspiration you would go >> buy books you watch movies you would go look at media to get ideas >> yeah yeah I think uh My my take on this is that he is he is pointing to something that is correct which is that uh AI feels very pull. You choose what
48:04
You choose what to pull out of the AI system.
48:08
You prompt you ask for information about a specific thing.
48:13
So you have to come with an idea and then you're exploring that idea and that's very satisfying for curious people.
48:20
Uh whereas the algorithms feel very push.
48:23
you go to YouTube shorts or Tik Tok or Instagram and you're just being fed things and you're not starting your journey with a an affirmative declaration.
48:33
I want to learn more about the new Dolce Trillindri Manual and I'm going down that rabbit hole.
48:39
Uh and I think your frustration that you voiced early about YouTube shoving a bunch of random shorts in your face is that otherwise you would be more likely to search for something specific.
48:50
you want to learn about a history of a specific thing.
48:54
And this was the case at the dawn of YouTube.
48:57
It was just a search box.
48:59
They'd surface a couple things, the editorial front page, but by and large, you would go and be like, I want I I I remember people would just go and search like sick backflip and then they would just watch like the backflip videos, right?
49:12
I had friends who would just search like cool thing, a cool cool video and they would just find cool videos because they were in the mood for that.
49:19
And it was sort of algorithmic in one sense but it was very like the user was driving that uh that direction and with the algorithms you you are taking a much more passive seat.
49:29
Now the odd thing is that where does AI go?
49:33
Where does perplexity chatbt where do these apps go?
49:38
Do they become more push in the sense that you show up and there's already a bunch of interesting prompts already done for you?
49:45
already done for you? I was talking about this >> that was pulse >> pulse was that but I was also when there was the rumor about the social network features I was saying that like I would love to just scroll a timeline of like what are the deep research reports that Tyler Cowan is doing he he probably
50:02
searches a ton of stuff if there's something interesting in there and he can just click share I would love to scroll that feed and I'll also subscribe to Tyler and see what >> it's funny stumble upon is such a good example >> yeah great feed >> because There was random elements, but you could always also make it more focused. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
50:20
>> And that's generally what a feed is now.
50:22
It's just stumble upon for like X is just stumble upon for like things happening online that you're interested in. >> Yeah. Random is an algorithm. That is an algorithm.
50:31
Uh you know, chronological is an is an algorithm.
50:34
But I think what we're getting at is like is more of this like algorithmic algorithm where the optimization function is attention and time on site that people find uh dissatisfying because they have like regret afterwards because they're like, "Yeah, you sucked me in with a bunch of stuff, but that's not actually what I wanted.
50:54
I wanted something more focused and directed.
50:56
I wanted more CrowdStrike.
50:58
I wanted to know that your business is AI.
51:01
Their business is securing it.
51:03
Crowd Strike secures AI and stops breaches.
51:06
[applause] I also want more videos of paragrin falcons flying at 390 km an hour. That is incredibly fast.
51:14
>> You were giving me >> I was skeptical >> a little bit of shade about falcons last week and so I needed to put you in the falcon zone. >> Okay.
51:22
The truth zone on the falcons. What is this video?
51:24
This is a video of the fastest attack animal in the animal kingdom. Paragan [music] falcon. >> Content warning. >> 390 km hour.
51:32
Also, they live all over America. >> Fantastic animal. Beautiful creature. >> Crazy. >> Yeah.
51:40
And you think that there's a business to be built around home defense paragan falcons.
51:45
Take me through your thesis. >> I did. I did. >> Yeah.
51:49
An anderal for the aviation aviary world.
51:54
>> Anderole meets falconry. Yes.
51:54
Sort of an organic and for the home. >> Yes.
51:58
Uh yeah, a lot of, you know, guard dogs are popular.
52:01
Why not have paragrin falcon, you know, perched in, you know, the highest tree on your property, ready to go?
52:09
>> I like this chat from Nicola.
52:09
A falcon with a bicycle is the most efficient animal on the planet.
52:14
I [laughter] completely agree.
52:17
>> This fits very well with the early idea from the show with like bear security. >> Yes. >> Yeah.
52:21
Bear private military contractors.
52:23
I think that idea early on.
52:23
Yeah, >> I think it's probably easier to domesticate a falcon than a than a bear.
52:29
Many falcons are already, you know, domesticated.
52:30
Falconry is a a historic um historic technique.
52:36
>> I just reached out to a local falconer.
52:39
>> You did >> to set up some time. >> Okay.
52:41
>> I'm not I'm not even >> before the show.
52:44
>> No, not for the show, but that would be cool. >> Wait, no, no, no, no.
52:45
Before the show, you did this.
52:48
>> Yeah, [laughter] >> the team had the team had that video pulled up and I just thought, you know. >> Yes.
52:53
Now the question is, can we bring back carrier pigeons? >> Yes.
52:57
>> Because we send >> because if we Yeah.
52:58
John Sunday morning, he's often reading an article. >> Yes.
53:03
>> He'll text me, "Hey, you should read this." Yes.
53:05
>> But what if he could send >> what if he could just take the newspaper, he didn't have to go find the link because obviously he's reading on a physical copy? Yes.
53:13
>> What if you could just hand it to a smart bird and have it fly it over to my house?
53:18
Be way more >> convenient for me.
53:19
I wouldn't need to be on my phone. It's It's a weekend.
53:21
I don't want to be as during the weeks and you don't have to be going on your phone.
53:29
>> So, I think there's something there.
53:29
I think >> I wonder I know Mike Tyson was really into pigeons.
53:33
I don't know if he got into carrier pigeons, but uh it does seem like it could have a huge boom.
53:37
I feel like there's an Instagram account to be built around someone who gets really into using carrier pigeons for everything and lives some sort of like pastoral trades millions of followers on the back of of falconry and and carrier pigeon >> home falcon missions. Yes, home falcons.
54:00
It's good content for social media.
54:00
Uh, also if you don't want to fly on a Falcon, you want to fly on a helicopter.
54:08
Be like Michael Dell, get a helicopter. And then branded.
54:10
He was caught on a hot mic talking to President Donald Trump.
54:15
He said, "Sir, we don't have a helicopter. We have a Delicopter."
54:17
What a funny portman tow.
54:20
And what a funny way to correct the president.
54:24
>> He's really speaking the president's language. >> Yeah. Let's play it.
54:27
See what this sounds like.
54:31
Every question is a kill.
54:31
Sir, we we don't have a helicopter. We have a helicopter.
54:37
>> Like what [laughter] >> what if this is a hard line?
54:42
>> I like how it kind of flopped in per in real life but is doing numbers online. >> It did. It did. It did.
54:47
Let me tell you about the New York Stock Exchange.
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54:58
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55:01
Circle K, the company won the lottery.
55:04
Did you hear about this story? No way. >> It's true. Yeah.
55:07
So, there's a crazy story out of Arizona. >> They needed a win. >> They needed to win.
55:11
Actually, they've been a fantastic partner to my company, Lucy. Uh, shout out Circle K.
55:14
But, let's tell you about the Circle K winning the lottery.
55:18
So, there's a crazy story out of Arizona that's been brewing over the last six months.
55:22
Back in February, a Circle K customer named Sun Chun Kim asked the cashier for $85 worth of $1 lottery tickets.
55:32
So, she shows up, she wants 85 tickets.
55:34
A but after all 85 were printed out, Kim found out that she only had 60 bucks on her, only $60.
55:41
So, the cashier gave her 60 tickets and left the remaining 25 tickets on the counter.
55:49
The next morning, Circle K manager Robert uh Galita learned that the leftover tickets included the $13 million winning ticket.
55:57
So, he clocked out, took off his Circle K shirt, and bought the tickets from another Circle K employee being like, "What?
56:07
>> No one no one's going to notice."
56:10
So when Circle K, the company, found out about the purchase, it ordered the ticket be held in its corporate office and filed a complaint against the manager who bought the tickets and the Arizona Lottery and claimed that it's right that it that Circle K the company is the rightful owner of the lottery ticket.
56:27
As of a week ago, at least three people slash entities are claiming ownership of the of the of the ticket.
56:33
>> Wait, so the original buyer that didn't have the cash? >> Yes.
56:36
the the manager who's like, "I don't care if I lose my job as long as I win the lottery."
56:41
And Circle K is like, "We really need a win.
56:45
>> We really need we need to like >> we need we need this." Yeah.
56:48
So, Galita, a Circle K employee that Galita got to sign the back of the ticket.
56:53
Not sure why he had her do all of this. And Circle K.
56:57
Additionally, the judge presiding over the complaint has ordered that the woman who bought the tickets but couldn't pay for them, Sunun Shun Kim, be found and brought into court before making a decision on who gets it.
57:09
So, she's going to have to testify and explain her side to to make sure that that's exactly what happened because this is just claims at this point.
57:14
How did the the local Circle K wind up with 25 uh lottery tickets? >> Who you going with?
57:21
I'm going with uh manager.
57:23
I'm going with big corporate big big big >> I'm going with a manager not because I think it's ethical but I think that I think that there's I think it's unlikely that there is a rule at Circle K that says >> 100% there's a rule that if you work at that company you can't buy lottery tickets at all from your own store.
57:43
Oh >> obviously because you have the machine right there you can tamp but they don't control >> that's probably line number one in employee handbook.
57:52
No, but but it seems very unlikely that that the circle like it's it's a machine that just prints tickets. Yes.
57:58
It's like >> Yes, but there's so many ways you could tamper with it.
58:01
You're watching the news.
58:02
You're printing the ticket at the right time. You have access. You refill the ticket.
58:05
Oh, there's one that's not >> But you're saying the corporation can buy its own lottery tickets. >> Yes. >> Why? But the manager can't. That seems also strange.
58:16
>> Maybe maybe you got >> I think I got a ride with the woman.
58:19
>> You think she's owed >> the manager?
58:20
But then but then then the strategy comes for the original buyer.
58:24
>> But then but then you can just shift the odds in your favor by constantly going to circle $100 of $100 of of tickets.
58:31
Oh, I only have 50 bucks.
58:31
And then you're basically doubling your odds because you still have a claim on those.
58:36
>> Gold Rock says these clerks aren't super hackers.
58:38
[laughter] John, >> just wait. Just wait.
58:41
You get the right amount of AI.
58:42
I think it's I think it's an edge case and I think ultimately the the the person that >> that paid for the winning ticket >> wins.
58:51
>> Who paid for the winning ticket? The manager.
58:53
If it comes down, >> but the manager knew that the ticket won.
58:55
He didn't have to put any money up. We don't know that yet. >> No, no, no, no. He did. He did.
58:58
So, there were 25 tickets there. They go through that. >> Okay.
59:02
If there's a rule, if there's a rule that managers cannot buy lottery tickets at their own store, then you're correct.
59:10
>> But if there's no rule that explicitly I you know basically spells that out.
59:13
I think he might he might >> he might be golden. >> He might be golden. You think so? I don't know.
59:22
Let me tell you about Shopify.
59:23
Shopify is the commerce platform that grows your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces, and now with AI agents.
59:33
And our next guest is here, I think a few minutes early, so we can bring in Baju from Cowboy Space Corporation.
59:39
Actually, oh, we're good. Let's bring him in. Hi Jim, how you doing?
59:41
Didn't want to keep you waiting. Welcome to the show.
59:46
>> The boys, how you doing? >> How you doing?
59:48
>> Good to have you back.
59:48
>> Good to have you back.
59:48
Uh, >> how was your fourth? >> How was your fourth? It >> was good. It was good.
59:52
I uh went went up to Oregon. Got a little sunlight.
59:55
It's pretty cloudy out in my part of California.
59:59
So, >> going to Oregon to get sunlight.
1:00:00
It's kind of a contrarian move. >> Florida or something. >> Florida's far. Florida's far. >> Yeah.
1:00:08
Uh, what is your reaction?
1:00:08
We got to get to the important news.
1:00:11
What's your reaction to the Ferrari Dolce Trelindri Manual? The manual bywire.
1:00:14
You knew this question was coming. >> I I'm I'm smitten.
1:00:21
I've been waiting >> for this. Yeah. I think I'm awesome. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
1:00:28
>> And and and and so the natural push back is, oh, this doesn't count cuz it's an actual manual transmission. Why? Why is this cool? Why is this good?
1:00:38
Why do you like this idea?
1:00:40
And I also want to know, do you think it will spread within the Ferrari portfolio?
1:00:47
>> Um, why do we like this idea?
1:00:47
First of all, because I think at this point with cars, we take what we can get.
1:00:52
And I this is going to be pretty cool.
1:00:54
I don't know if this is true or not, but I heard that the reason they're doing this is cuz the the gearbox, they needed it to be able to handle that much power.
1:01:03
That's why they didn't go with a totally normal manual, but who knows?
1:01:06
[clears throat] Um, and do I think it is going to get to cars? I hope so. I really hope so.
1:01:11
I mean, just in general, right?
1:01:13
Like the landscape of modern cars is, pardon my language, but it's [Ā __Ā ] apocalyptic.
1:01:21
[laughter] Like, you guys ever go driving down the road?
1:01:23
I don't Every car on the road is either gray >> y >> black, silver, or toilet bowl white. >> Yeah.
1:01:34
with the number of cars that look like toilet bowls on the road is just exploding and it's you know it's depressing.
1:01:40
It it kind of I feel like it's a weird commentary on on human society this day and age like why does everywhere need to drive the exact same ugly boxy car and >> hey we're we're having some connection issues.
1:01:55
Uh can we flip you back to the production team?
1:01:57
We'll bring you back in a couple minutes. Does that sound good? >> Thanks a lot.
1:02:01
We'll see you in just a few minutes.
1:02:02
Let me tell everyone about Figma agents. Meet the canvas.
1:02:04
Your AI agents can now create and modify your Figma files with design system. >> We got him in.
1:02:12
We asked [laughter] the questions that were on our mind and we were having an issue and he's dropping some gems.
1:02:23
We want to get >> Well, wait.
1:02:25
Is this uh is this a real video? This No, this is fake. No.
1:02:29
>> Uh this is good though. Costa. >> Yes.
1:02:31
uh runs the fastest growing oil changeonly QL in the USA.
1:02:34
He says, "For kicks, I started using Chad GBT to give our employees huge muscles and social media posts we use.
1:02:41
And finally, last night employee told me on Slack, a customer said something about them not being as jacked in person."
1:02:47
[laughter] >> Look at this second picture here.
1:02:52
>> That's guy, if you look like this, you're not changing oil.
1:02:55
You're going for the Arnold.
1:02:59
>> You're going to the Arnold. This is so good.
1:03:00
Uh, I like that Max Sparrow is in here just tagging Panggram data.
1:03:03
Is this is this the idea that he's try Oh, he's adding to the training corpus.
1:03:12
Interesting that he just goes around on the timeline hunting for known edited images to build the build the build the model. Very very cool.
1:03:19
Uh, let's talk about Maggie's refuel.
1:03:21
Speaking of cars that need to be refueled, if you got your Dolce Treindri Manual and you need to get a full tank of gas, you might stop by Maggie's Refuel here in Los Angeles.
1:03:34
A new high-end gas station brand just opened in Los Angeles.
1:03:37
It builds itself as a high-end convenience store brand planning to modernize and innovate the current gas station experience.
1:03:47
Think Auto Grill meets 7-Eleven Japan, matcha, local croissants, premium CPG, and yes, a soft serve cone.
1:03:55
All all alongside a gas or EV fillup. Will they have white? >> Got to jump in.
1:04:00
It's not actually open yet. >> It's not open yet. >> It's not open yet.
1:04:03
This is going to be their first location.
1:04:05
If you've been in LA, this location is incredible.
1:04:07
It's an incredible historic structure.
1:04:09
We actually don't know how to make gas stations like this. >> Yeah.
1:04:14
If you go to the first image in that uh thing, you can see the sort of curved ceiling that looks very uh I don't know. It looks nice.
1:04:22
It also looks like it's a nightmare in the rain. Kyler.
1:04:27
>> Um yeah, some people are saying this is just BIES for California.
1:04:28
Have you guys ever been to Bies?
1:04:31
>> I've never been to Bies.
1:04:32
>> Bies is an elite gas station.
1:04:32
It's like mostly like south of the US.
1:04:37
>> There's only like 20 of them, but there are like some serious >> There's like a wall of beef jerky. Every flavor. It's incredible.
1:04:41
You guys got to go next time you're on the East Coast.
1:04:45
>> So, it's just great selection.
1:04:47
>> They have I mean, so so there's like kind of like a restaurant cuz I have been to a BIE, but I just went in and said, >> "Hey, where's the bathroom?"
1:04:53
Use the bathroom and left.
1:04:55
I didn't get to I didn't even Everything inside a Bies is trying to kill me. Okay.
1:05:01
>> So, I I tend to avoid.
1:05:01
Uh but Maggie's is very cool.
1:05:05
I uh actually invested in in Maggie's with uh my friend Jonathan. >> Cool.
1:05:11
Uh, and this was like almost a couple years ago at this point.
1:05:13
Um, so building a gas station chain is a lot harder than it sounds. Yeah.
1:05:19
Uh, but the idea and and Alex John Rossy in the chat uh is sharing uh Alex Alex's family uh started Caner's Deli, very popular deli here in >> Los Angeles.
1:05:33
So, lots of lots of lore in the family.
1:05:36
Uh but the idea and the frustration that that I had had, you know, even prior to meeting Alex is like everything inside >> the average gas station is trying to kill me. Yeah. >> Right.
1:05:48
It's like almost end to end wallto-wall poison >> and uh there's a lot of instances where >> there is fine >> uh poison but um >> not poison the drink of kings.
1:06:02
>> Oh, we're running the AB test.
1:06:02
We're running the AB test, John. Okay.
1:06:05
>> Uh That's going to be in a gas station soon. Herman's ripping.
1:06:09
>> It'll definitely It'll be in Maggie's.
1:06:11
But uh but yeah, the idea is like, okay, how much money would you spend if you were getting gas at a place where you could get a nice coffee or maybe some organic fruit?
1:06:20
>> I do hate getting gas at a boring gas station.
1:06:23
>> Yeah, it's going to be fun.
1:06:24
>> I'd probably stop by there if I saw it. It'd be good.
1:06:26
>> How are we doing on our guests?
1:06:27
>> We're going to bring them in in just a minute.
1:06:29
Make sure that connection is dialed.
1:06:31
Uh we can talk about common printers. We are big on printing. We print every day. I got some papers here. Uh, but I agree.
1:06:38
Printers have not seen enough innovation yet.
1:06:41
But CR1337 Elite, I like that says, "We all know what the three biggest problems with common printers are. One, ink ripoffs.
1:06:52
Two, planned obsolescence.
1:06:52
And two, got the numbers wrong. You know, it's not AI.
1:06:57
Uh, unrepaiable hardware.
1:06:57
Today I stumbled upon Open Printer, a fully repairable open- source inkjet that uses cheap refillable HP cartridges without DRM.
1:07:07
Print sheets on rolls with an auto cutter. Raspberry Pi powered.
1:07:10
No drivers needed on any operating system.
1:07:12
If I ever get a printer again, this will be the one. Open printer. >> It's so funny.
1:07:18
This person's like gassing up this printer and was like, "Yeah, if I ever get one again, I would do this one."
1:07:23
>> This is the story of so many like we have to go back to this thing where it's like, "Oh, I really want this."
1:07:27
and then somebody makes it and they're like, "Well, I don't need that thing at all anymore."
1:07:33
So now we understand why it doesn't exist and it became an extreme niche.
1:07:38
Uh there's another making things the old way. I like this video. Look at this. The series of machines.
1:07:43
This is from uh this is a paper organizer. Look at this, Jordy.
1:07:49
So, this will just take a messy stack of paper and jiggle it until it's nice and even. Look at this.
1:08:00
So, you just take a bunch of papers and then it just sort of shakes it and then you get a nice clean stack of paper and you have a whole machine for this.
1:08:07
Can your iPhone 17 Pro Max do that? No.
1:08:10
You got to get the paper jiggler 9000, whatever it's called. The electroj. The electroj.
1:08:19
We don't know how to name products like that anymore.
1:08:20
Tyler, are you in the market for this?
1:08:22
Should we get one of these for the studio? >> This could be good.
1:08:25
Yeah, >> this could be good.
1:08:25
Take all the newspapers and jog them together.
1:08:27
Just It's just such a beautiful simple machine, you know?
1:08:31
You just want a nice Look how clean that looks.
1:08:33
You got papers around your house.
1:08:35
Don't you want them nicely lined up like that? It's great. >> I like it.
1:08:39
So, open printer, I think we just looked at.
1:08:42
It's not even actually available for pre-order yet. Mhm.
1:08:45
>> So, >> okay, >> we'll see if they get >> crowdfunding. It's getting there.
1:08:48
Well, let me tell you about Codex.
1:08:50
Codeex is a powerful workspace for getting work done with AI agents.
1:08:54
Whether you're writing code, analyzing data, creating content, or automating business workflows, Codex helps you move projects forward from start to finish.
1:09:00
Uh there's there's a new job in Washington DC.
1:09:03
If you're looking for to make your name on Capitol Hill, you can be the Rockco's Basilisk explainer.
1:09:11
you go and read less wrong and then you break it down for our elected officials on Capitol Hill.
1:09:16
Uh this is a >> put it into the form of based memes. >> Yes. Yes.
1:09:21
That's >> if you really want to.
1:09:23
>> This is a real job in the modern economy.
1:09:24
The Financial Times uh said has a bunch of there's a bunch of news around AI.
1:09:29
Uh there was some news that Anthropic might be joining up with uh with their world one.
1:09:34
They're closing China loopholes.
1:09:36
That seems like good news.
1:09:38
They're also potentially involved in the uh in the public ownership.
1:09:43
>> But this Financial Times report says among his strange duty as Silicon Valley's translator [music] to Washington, he said was explaining Rocko's basilisk, an internet thought experiment about a vengeful future super intelligence quote to a bunch of the cabinet. Fun times in Washington.
1:09:56
But we have our guest back in the TVP Ultradome.
1:10:02
Let's welcome Baj [screaming] back to the show. How you doing? >> I'm back. So fantastic. >> Crystal clear. >> Crystal clear.
1:10:10
Uh yeah, it was extremely painful listening to you do this incredible riff on the state of modern cars and I couldn't >> couldn't agree more.
1:10:20
Yeah, >> couldn't agree more. You'll be happy.
1:10:22
You'll be happy that my the the the >> the three cars in my driveway right now are >> blue, green, and brown.
1:10:29
I'm rebelling [snorts] against uh more subtle, you know, toned down toned down far away.
1:10:37
They don't look too crazy, but I'm rebelling >> rebelling against the beige and the the blacks and the whites.
1:10:44
>> Why do you think the colors went away?
1:10:44
I understand the transition to electric because of environmental concerns, the move to automatics, because it's less to learn for the average consumer. But why did we lose red? >> I don't know, man. It's it's sad, honestly. It's just sad.
1:11:01
I and I think it's like a Yeah, I I I I think it's like a commentary on like the modern state of society and human affairs, like why why do we all want to have cars that just disappear into the background? >> Mhm.
1:11:16
Um I >> well well well one thing is like to to me when I think about like a VW bug right a very popular car throughout history >> even if it's regardless of the color it's like a fun car but then you add some like exotic color yellow or green or red >> like it's it's even more fun and I and I just feel like when every car >> every car blends in just the silhouette now >> Yeah.
1:11:44
And so I think people are just like blending in is just the current meta. We're seeing it. It's funny.
1:11:49
Fiat has some new car >> that they're coming out with.
1:11:53
Uh what is the I think it's the topolino maybe.
1:12:02
>> I think cute is going to come back. >> You think so?
1:12:05
>> Sounds like topo chico. >> Top chico. >> Yeah.
1:12:07
No, it's the uh the multi-plina >> I think it is. I don't know.
1:12:11
I get they all they all kind of run together, but >> still sounds like dope chico.
1:12:14
[laughter] >> I mean, some of it's safety standards.
1:12:16
A lot of things have had to standardize around crash crumple zones and whatnot.
1:12:23
And I think that creates somewhat of a consolidation around silhouettes.
1:12:25
But the color thing, I would imagine, is more like tall poppy syndrome.
1:12:30
You don't want to stand out and be the guy with the red car. That became too flashy.
1:12:35
So, everyone went quiet luxury and that meant black, white, or gray.
1:12:42
>> Why do Why do Why does everybody need to fit in?
1:12:44
Why does everybody need to be the same?
1:12:46
Like, people should just be individuals.
1:12:47
Like, that's kind of the natural state of human affairs in my opinion. >> I don't know.
1:12:53
>> At the same time, something crazy comes out and people reject it.
1:12:55
Look at the Ferrari Luche.
1:12:56
That car doesn't really look like anything else.
1:12:59
It looks to be cleared it purely on >> I'm getting by the way, guys. >> Let's go. >> There we go.
1:13:07
>> [laughter] >> Let's be honest. Let's be honest.
1:13:09
They said if you want the if you want the 12C manual, you're getting [laughter] the blue.
1:13:16
It wasn't said out loud, but it was understood. >> No. >> No.
1:13:20
I Guys, I I got it cuz I'm a huge Johnny I fanboy.
1:13:23
I mean, >> yeah, I think it's And I think the interior is going to be incredible.
1:13:26
And the spec matters a lot.
1:13:27
What color did you go with? What do you like?
1:13:30
Did you do anything to make it your own?
1:13:34
>> I haven't done that yet.
1:13:34
Um, I'm going to confess right now that I'm going to probably make my wife drive it. >> Okay. Yeah.
1:13:42
>> So, I think it's going to be a baby mobile.
1:13:44
>> Hey, I mean, if you want five-seater, it's the only option. It's the only option.
1:13:48
>> No, it's going to be an incredibly fun >> car to to drive.
1:13:53
>> It'll be an experience.
1:13:53
My only my only criticism was uh was purely like it felt like they set out to make a $300,000 car and they accidentally made, you know, a $600,000 car.
1:14:06
>> But fortunately, there's there's there's not a there's not millions of Jews in the world, but there's enough that they're going to sell some.
1:14:13
>> Let's pull up the picture of this Fiat.
1:14:15
I want to show Let's take a look at this thing.
1:14:16
>> I want to get Baiju's reaction to see if he's going to pick up one of these.
1:14:18
Can we c can we share this uh this image that's in the timeline of the Fiat Toppo Lino?
1:14:24
Uh hilarious that it has a uh >> what is that like a >> It's like >> By the way, I like that you guys brought me on just to talk about cars.
1:14:35
[laughter] >> We're going to get to We're going to get your business. It's July.
1:14:40
>> We also got a half an hour here. We're hanging out. >> Yeah. Yeah. Let's do it. Let's do it.
1:14:44
>> Can we Can we share the the image of the top? Let's see.
1:14:46
It has uh it has like a rope that you would expect at like a nightclub, like a velvet rope to stop people instead of a door. Uh it looks great.
1:14:56
Anyway, >> I put a link I put I put a link here that you can that you can pull up as well. >> What is this?
1:15:03
>> Is this pulling that up? >> Yeah.
1:15:05
>> Have you guys seen that? Um what is that?
1:15:07
That that new Audi the the one that looks like it's like out of Cyberpunk. >> Yes.
1:15:12
>> I think that same same designer as the new Jaguar. Yeah.
1:15:16
>> Did you Did you know that?
1:15:17
>> Oh, that's and and I was excited about that for a minute. Come on.
1:15:21
Why you [laughter] got to do that?
1:15:23
>> No, but but the issue with the Jaguar was not the silhouette was like very cool.
1:15:27
It was one of those like the future is here moments and then there the way that they did the roll out of it and the rebrand like obviously got a lot of push back, but like fundamentally I thought like this is what Batman would drive in the year.
1:15:40
We just like you see that thing in matte black.
1:15:42
It looks a lot different than like the pink and pastel blues.
1:15:45
There was just like a little bit too much contrast.
1:15:47
But then we're getting out of the colors.
1:15:49
Maybe we got to speck it in some.
1:15:51
>> If I If I were specking one of those, >> I would go full Batman the animated series.
1:15:56
Like I would go with like a like a cream color. >> Sure.
1:16:01
>> And make it look as like art deco as possible. >> Yeah. Yeah, that'd be good.
1:16:05
>> The new Ariel Ari is the new Valari is crazy.
1:16:08
I have a friend specking one of them in like this crazy crazy color.
1:16:10
I'm not even going to I'm not going to say what it is.
1:16:15
I want to let him have his moment.
1:16:16
I think it will be one, you know, one of >> and also a lot a lot less push back for the Audi because it's uh it's built on the Lamborghini platform, I believe. So, it's V10 or V8.
1:16:25
It has a you know internal combustion engine.
1:16:28
And I think uh Jaguar like changed a lot of things at the same time.
1:16:32
Going electric, going huge sedan, going crazy colors, very bold marketing.
1:16:37
And when you shift seven different things, you get a lot of visceral fiat. >> Let's see this. There we go.
1:16:42
What do you think about this? You picking one up? [laughter] >> Oh, guys.
1:16:52
>> You're not You're not ripping one of these things around with the boys.
1:16:56
Imagine Imagine having So, okay.
1:16:56
So, one of these is kind of silly, but if you're with your your buddies and you each have one and you're rolling deep, >> that's pretty cool.
1:17:05
Put a Mansori kit on that. >> That's pretty cool. I don't know.
1:17:10
[laughter] Mansor kit on that thing.
1:17:13
>> I think we got a picture of a There's a convertible version, I guess, with >> Can you imagine hang I I just cannot imagine hanging out with my friends and us like caravanning these.
1:17:22
It'd be [laughter] >> We look like such dweebs. I'm sorry. Sorry. Fiat >> engine swap. >> You might say that. You might say that.
1:17:31
>> Just wait until you fire up the V12 engine that you swap in that thing.
1:17:36
That'll be sitting on top of it.
1:17:38
>> I know it would [laughter] at all.
1:17:39
>> Uh, we got we got one more.
1:17:42
>> Okay, what else we got? >> Uh, the Twizzy. The Renault Twizzy. Have you seen these? >> The doors go up. >> The doors go up. >> You sit one behind.
1:17:50
>> We saw this in Europe.
1:17:50
We were in France last week or two weeks ago.
1:17:52
And these were uh extremely popular with like young teenagers.
1:17:57
They'd have a whole bunch of them sort of caravanning around.
1:18:00
Seems like uh particularly good for narrow streets.
1:18:03
Again, it's the right tool for the job.
1:18:04
Is it going to take it to a track day? Probably not.
1:18:08
But, uh, in the right in the right environment, I think the Twizzy the is a Renault, right? >> Yeah. >> Renault Twizzy. Let's see.
1:18:15
>> The team's pulling it up.
1:18:15
Imagine Imagine at least two of us in here together going on a coffee.
1:18:22
>> Wait, is that three person? No. >> No. One.
1:18:24
Somebody's got to stay behind. >> Okay. Yeah.
1:18:27
>> It looks like that person's sitting in that person's lap. >> It's a tight squeeze.
1:18:30
sort of a motorcycle more than a >> It's not It's not very spacious. I will say that.
1:18:36
But >> how many wheels does this thing have on it? Is it two or four? >> It's four. >> Okay, >> it's four.
1:18:43
>> I can't quite tell from that angle. It might be a bicycle.
1:18:46
>> Look, I know you have a great car collection, but clearly there's some holes, right? No Twizzy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> You don't have five.
1:18:53
You don't have five PS >> that this uh hot garbage is coming out.
1:19:00
The restood community is making some good stuff right now.
1:19:02
I'll just put that out there. >> Okay.
1:19:04
Yes, there was an article in the Wall Street Journal about this.
1:19:06
Hot girl cars, uh, old Land Rovers, old Defenders, uh, modified. Sydney Sweeney has one.
1:19:14
What is your take on what makes for a good restood in the SUV world?
1:19:22
>> As long as you're not swapping it out for an electric powertrain, I think I'm I'm I'm down with it. >> You're good.
1:19:27
I had I had uh I saw one >> I had people that that are like, "Oh, I'm into cars."
1:19:32
And I'm like, "Okay, cool."
1:19:34
Like, "What kind of cars are you into?"
1:19:35
And they're like, "Well, I bought, you know, >> like an old Bronco and I made it electric."
1:19:40
And a [clears throat] little part of me just sort of dies when I hear that. I'm like, "Ah." >> Yeah.
1:19:45
>> So, yeah, I'm I'm in favor.
1:19:45
I like when they're kept like very pure, right?
1:19:47
I don't like when the when the badges or or any of the the markings are changed.
1:19:54
I saw a Bronco on Saturday where all the badges were swapped to just say vintage and I was like clearly it's a vintage car.
1:20:03
Like you don't you don't need to like >> you don't need to like spell it out.
1:20:05
And so I I personally I I I appreciate when it's like as left as pure as possible and then just like modified to make it slightly more comfortable or or redoing the interior, etc. >> What about a 1955?
1:20:21
What about a 1955 Cadillac coupe Deville swapped with a Tesla Model Plaid so you can get 200 mph in it? >> That seems good.
1:20:31
[laughter] >> I like how I was with you until we put the Model S battery in.
1:20:35
[laughter] >> Sorry, what were you saying?
1:20:40
>> I was I was saying I was with you until we got to the electrification bit of it.
1:20:44
Yeah, but at 200 mph bombing down the autobond in a 1955 Cadillac coupe Deville and >> so that thing is going to be a rattle box at 200 m an hour.
1:20:54
Can you imagine just the whole thing just like >> death machine?
1:20:58
Uh what's your uh I are are you are you going to be racing at all?
1:21:04
Ferrari challenge >> challenge maybe >> you're too not much of a racer. Not much of a racer.
1:21:09
I'm I'm much more of like a hot rodder and like >> drive it on, you know, beautiful beach roads kind of guy. >> Sure. >> Um Yeah.
1:21:17
I I you know, it's one of those things like a lot of people really love that side of it.
1:21:22
I've never had that much of a need for speed personally. >> Yeah.
1:21:25
I We enjoy to be totally honest. >> Yeah.
1:21:30
We enjoy going to the track, but there's there's people that enjoy going to the track that are like putting it all on the line every time.
1:21:35
And I I can't do it like with young children.
1:21:40
I just like >> uh I I I'm I'm building out like a a really robust sim right now >> to to >> see what you got. >> Yeah.
1:21:51
Just to just to actually try to push myself, but again, I don't know that I would ever want to replicate what I'm going to do in the sim actually on the track.
1:21:59
But >> are you are you guys going to car week?
1:22:06
It's really poorly timed with the arrival of my next child.
1:22:10
>> Like very like within within days. Uh >> within days, huh? >> Yeah.
1:22:16
So I'm I'm going to probably have to >> get ready to deliver the baby in the back of a >> home birth at car week. >> At car week.
1:22:23
You've heard of babies delivered in bats of of you'll be at you'll be at the racetrack watching vintage racing in like the beating sun uh >> and having to rush to the hospital. >> Yeah. Yeah.
1:22:36
So I'm I I as much as it pains me I think I'm going to be sitting this >> maybe next year. Maybe next year.
1:22:41
Uh if you had to do one which one would you do?
1:22:45
[laughter] Cannonball New York to LA, Paris Dar Rally, or Gumball 3000.
1:22:56
>> The Gumball 3000 is across the uh >> Tundra.
1:23:01
>> Oh, I would definitely do that one.
1:23:03
>> Move around a little bit.
1:23:03
I think the Gumball moves around, but uh it's a long it's a long rally, but it's less of, you know, track focus.
1:23:08
It's less at the limit as the Cannonball, which is uh New York to uh I think La Hoya as fast as possible.
1:23:15
I feel like that one I feel like would have have a lot more of like >> eating beans out of a can like on the side of the road, which is kind of the vibe I'd go for. >> Yeah. No, it seems really fun.
1:23:25
Anyway, we're not here to talk about cars for 45 minutes. Let's talk about space.
1:23:29
Let's talk about business. >> Totally could. >> Okay.
1:23:33
So, uh get us up to speed on progress since we last spoke.
1:23:36
I want to specifically talk about uh launch vehicles, what it takes to get to space at scale, what you're thinking there.
1:23:42
So take us through just the general update and then we can go more specific >> then we can get back to >> Yeah.
1:23:47
So [laughter] >> pretty pretty busy times here at the Cowboy Space Corporation which >> uh I love the mission statement.
1:23:54
We're on a we're on a mission to power humanity from the high frontier.
1:23:59
>> Just like got that little bit of country twang to it. >> That's good.
1:24:02
Uh so we we announced uh fundraising and the plans to vertically integrate into launch vehicle plus data centers and space architecture.
1:24:13
>> Um >> and a little bit on that, right?
1:24:14
We I' you we've talked a little while ago, but I'd kind of since I started the company, I'd been pretty focused on figuring out the energy economics and in particular trying to figure out what the path is to making compute from space or, you know, energy derivative services from space competitive on a cost basis with doing a terrestrial.
1:24:37
That's kind of the north star. >> Mhm.
1:24:39
And when when we kind of got to the architecture that we announced, that was the the aha moment is like when you look at the whole when you look at the entirety of the problem including the launch vehicle, the path to getting the data center in space along with the architecture of the data center part in space and and you and you optimize the entire thing.
1:25:01
That's one of the paths to getting to Costco competitive economics.
1:25:06
um was when we really doubled down on building the launch vehicle as a part of the data center in space and I think also um it's become you know more and more clear over time that the launch capability that people will need to do all this interesting stuff in space like it's it's it's going to be a while before it's there.
1:25:25
SpaceX is obviously running ahead with that but they're going to end up using a lot of that capacity for themselves.
1:25:30
And so we we knew that if we wanted to control our destiny, we'd have to go down this path, which I did not think I was going to start a rocket business when I started this company.
1:25:40
But >> what are the dials that you're turning on launch vehicle? Are you going bigger?
1:25:46
>> First, he's funding the data anti-data center movement here, right?
1:25:49
You need to create even more of a catalyst.
1:25:52
>> That's a tinfoil hat conspiracy.
1:25:54
>> No, it's not a tinfoil hat.
1:25:54
It's a it's a blue hair conspiracy. >> Sure. Sure.
1:25:58
You guys [laughter] will see me protesting outside of a data center.
1:26:02
>> Maybe maybe put them in space.
1:26:03
>> Yeah, you got to you got to go boot.
1:26:05
>> People will be protesting that in due time. Don't you worry.
1:26:06
time. Don't you worry. Uh but but on the launch vehicle, what dials are you turning in terms of uh the amount of mass to orbit or the size of the vehicle, the fuel like like what how do you want to uh develop something that's
1:26:23
different or do you just want to have a secondary option that's as close to the sort of standard interoperable uh market standard launch vehicle or do you want something that fulfills a specifically different role and and fits a different piece of the stack. >> Yeah. So, first things first, uh you >> Yeah.
1:26:40
So, first things first, uh you guys will see a much more detailed update from us on overall launch vehicle architecture, kind of an unveiling of what >> the rocket looks like, how pointy it is, stuff like that.
1:26:54
>> Um so stay tuned on that.
1:26:54
But I'll give you I'll give you a couple of breadcrumbs to that right now.
1:27:00
>> First one is on the launch vehicle itself.
1:27:02
We want to optimize for simplicity of architecture and speed to market.
1:27:06
Those are kind of highle objectives.
1:27:09
We don't have to build the Bugatti Veyron of rocket engines here.
1:27:14
We want to build something that's much more the Honda Civic of rocket engines.
1:27:18
And what that looks like, it's down selecting each one of the the core trades in the system to optimize for what can we build relatively quickly that gets the job done and starts getting payloads to orbit because >> there's there's different paths we could take with this.
1:27:34
The the the north star for me is like cut out the arts and crafts projects.
1:27:39
Like just focus on building data centers in space, building a rocket architecture that is purpose-built for that. Mhm.
1:27:48
>> And and notably not focus on reusability at all, at least initially. Is that right?
1:27:55
>> No, I think we're we're going to aim for reusability as quickly as possible.
1:27:57
One of the things that we we hope to do on the path to getting there is having economics that support >> making something that's viable with a nonreusable version of it. Yeah.
1:28:08
>> So that we're not waiting forever to to start getting payloads up.
1:28:11
Yeah, because I imagine the I imagine with some of the AI projects uh the the AI compute is so valuable economically so economically dense that nonreusable payloads might actually make sense at least in the short term.
1:28:27
Of course, you want to save money over the long term, but uh when you think about the value of a of a of you know largecale compute in orbit that could be potentially higher than some of the other payloads that are going up right now, right?
1:28:40
So that sort of pulls forward your road map. >> Yeah.
1:28:43
I mean I think this if if I understand you right I think one of the things that is an interesting observation here is more on the the sort of business and economics of the rocket business. Hold on one sec.
1:28:54
My light just cut off here. >> You're good.
1:28:58
>> Let me tell you about console.
1:28:58
Console builds AI agents that automates 70% of IT HR and finance support giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password res.
1:29:08
got an addin and a nice view of the the art right behind you. So, thank you.
1:29:14
>> I can't get away from the technical difficulty. My goodness. Uh >> what was I saying? Um economics >> Yeah.
1:29:21
>> and the business of rocketry.
1:29:21
I think there's something that's pretty interesting that's happened here, >> which is if you look back in time towards >> kind of when the first commercial rocket businesses were getting started, Blue Origin, SpaceX, etc.
1:29:33
The primary business model as I understand it was third party launch.
1:29:38
Build a rocket to take stuff to space >> and the taking the stuff to space is the monetization. >> Yeah.
1:29:46
>> Which if you rewind the clock 10 to 15 years ago, the majority of that activity was driven by government, right?
1:29:51
It was government needs, government payloads, national security, etc. , etc.
1:29:56
Um what we're seeing now is [snorts] the bulk of the payload that at least you know that is going to be going to orbit a lot of it is commercial and in particular the AI component is is commercial in nature by and large and when you when you realize that that fundamentally changes the way that you think about the rocket business you you you realize that like the how how to say this the development velment path starts to change, right?
1:30:29
Because as you're if you're launching first party payloads, you look at the economics of what does it take to get a successful launch to orbit?
1:30:37
What is the cost of a failed launch to orbit?
1:30:39
And you control the entire economic stack there.
1:30:44
So if you have a failed launch to orbit and you're and the sort of consequence of that is a first party payload, it's very different than if the failed launch is for a government payload.
1:30:56
To say it differently when it's purely commercial, the incentive I think is much more to try early and often >> um and to get to that that sort of like successful launch and eventually to get to reusability and get payloads to orbit that start monetizing along the way.
1:31:15
And I think that flows through the entirety of the decision-m of how you build a rocket company in 2026. Right?
1:31:25
>> Said differently, we're building this thing for our data center and space payload.
1:31:30
We're not building it for third party payloads.
1:31:33
We're not building it for human space flight or any of that stuff.
1:31:38
We might do that at some point in the future. >> Yeah.
1:31:41
But we think that the majority of like the actual substance and the revenue of this is going to come from the first party payloads of data centers in space. >> Yeah.
1:31:52
Very different company from Robin Hood.
1:31:55
What lessons are you actually taking?
1:31:57
What are you drawing from the Robin Hood playbook if anything for this company?
1:32:03
Um, well, it's kind of interesting because the the technoeconomic analysis of how do you how do you make a service make sense like this?
1:32:12
There's there's some overlapping and thinking there of like how do you make the economic cases make sense.
1:32:19
>> The other part is building engineering teams like that that translates over pretty well.
1:32:22
Um, >> and building them.
1:32:26
>> I think the interesting thing here is that it's a largely distributed engineering workforce.
1:32:30
A lot of it is quite different, I'll be honest.
1:32:34
>> Um, there's less consumer product involved.
1:32:36
There's much more manufacturing involved.
1:32:40
>> Um, but at the end of the day, the the the circumstances in some ways are similar, right?
1:32:45
It's like starting out from the standpoint the Robin Hood, you know, era of my life.
1:32:50
I guess it's still going on, but the the starting of that was how do you build something that competes against these existing brokerages and how do you really really focus on a very specific set of things that gets a meaningful use case in the market.
1:33:08
Yeah, >> I think that part is actually kind of similar is like how do you >> make a meaningful rocket space company by being hyper hyperfocused on a small number of things because like I said, we're not in the business [clears throat] of doing human space flight and all these other things, but how do you find that that niche that you care about and say ultra focused on on making that happen?
1:33:31
>> In 30 seconds, cuz I know you have to hop.
1:33:32
SpaceX is in the cloud business now.
1:33:35
They have a launch business.
1:33:35
You can imagine that Elon just wants more and more and more and more of that end market.
1:33:43
Has that changed the dynamic of conversations that you're having with, let's say, other hyperscalers and labs that are competing with with Elon Inc.
1:33:54
and don't want to end up in a situation where they are, you know, basically forced to purchase from a monopoly, you know, or, you know, cloud from monopoly, uh, etc. >> Yeah.
1:34:05
I mean, I think the the overwhelming dynamic here now and in the future is just the need for compute, right?
1:34:11
I think there's there's definitely people that are concerned about controlling their own data centers, but if you kind of look around at the marketplace right now, people are trying to get capacity whenever and wherever they can get it.
1:34:21
So, >> there's I'm sure there's a little bit of that behind the scenes, but I think the the primary thing that I'm seeing is just the the need for compute and trying to bring it online as quickly as possible.
1:34:34
And I don't know, I feel like we all kind of live with that on a day-to-day basis, you know, like I was asking, you know, Fable to >> I was asking Fable to make some Magic the Gathering decks for me >> uh over the weekend, and I I kept hitting my limits.
1:34:52
>> [laughter] >> Like come on guys, like just make the deck for me. >> Yeah. No, it is a crazy time.
1:34:54
Like Apple is leasing GPUs from Google.
1:34:57
Google's leasing GPUs from SpaceX and like everyone >> Google's telling Meta like sorry and then Meta is like we have too much capacity to sell and so everyone's doing a deal with everybody else.
1:35:09
So, uh, it's a good it's a good business to be in since everything's growing and demand is, uh, demand solves so many headaches and and and justifies so many.
1:35:20
>> All right, I know you have to jump.
1:35:21
>> Let's get a couple of these Fiats.
1:35:21
Let's bomb around car week.
1:35:24
The three of us, maybe a few others. >> Maybe car week 2027. >> Yeah.
1:35:30
>> So, I don't I love it. I I go most years. >> Amazing. Well, great to see.
1:35:35
Congrats on the progress.
1:35:38
Congrats on the progress and we'll talk to you soon. >> Thanks, boys. >> Have a good one. >> Cheers. >> Goodbye.
1:35:42
Our next guest is Daniel English from Legacy Investments.
1:35:45
He's a managing partner there.
1:35:48
We'll bring him in to the TVP at Ultradome from the waiting room.
1:35:55
Legacy Investments does private real estate and infrastructure investment platform.
1:35:58
Daniel, welcome to the show.
1:36:00
How are [music] you doing? >> What's going great? Thanks for having me.
1:36:03
>> How was your Fourth of July?
1:36:05
>> Uh uh in the nation's capital.
1:36:05
So, I was here for all the storms and the fireworks. >> Very fun.
1:36:12
>> Well, since it's your first time on the show, I would love for you to kick it off with a little bit of an introduction on yourself and Legacy Investments. Get us up to speed. >> Yeah, absolutely.
1:36:20
So, my original background was tech entrepreneurship.
1:36:23
Uh, probably similar to you guys and then saw the opportunity in infrastructure for the buildout of the internet and >> 15 years ago started investing in data centers and >> uh data center commerce warehouses. >> Yeah.
1:36:37
e-commerce warehouses as well and also some life life sciences real estate. Is that correct?
1:36:43
>> Yeah, sort of all takes the same kind of infrastructure.
1:36:44
So the whole idea was own the infrastructure that you know the the digital world is being built on top of.
1:36:51
>> Yeah, thesis makes a ton of sense.
1:36:51
Take us through the very first deal.
1:36:53
Like did you have to marshall capital?
1:36:55
Is it like raising a venture fund?
1:36:57
Are you just deploying your own capital and working with a bank for a mortgage?
1:37:01
Like what was that first deal like?
1:37:05
>> Yeah, it's very similar to venture, right?
1:37:06
So, you know, just huge sums of money.
1:37:09
I mean, today our typical >> deal is $600 million. Yeah. >> Just just each.
1:37:13
So, and that's a small data center investment, right?
1:37:15
So, >> so, so big big dollars.
1:37:17
But, yeah, I mean, you go out, you raise your money, you have a pitch deck, uh, uh, the same basic, um, same basic process.
1:37:24
So, we started, you know, I think 15 years ago, nobody understood what a data center was. So, it was fascinating.
1:37:30
In fact, I got laughed at a lot by private equity who was like, [clears throat] "You left tech and venture to go [laughter] center." >> Wow. Who's laughing? >> It's amazing now. >> Yeah, exactly.
1:37:42
They're like, "Hey, we'd love to catch up and get coffee and you can tell us about how >> So, so I I I want to understand uh data centers went from being something that no one really cared about to suddenly everyone cares about them all the time.
1:37:57
So much so that if anything happens at a data center tied to any hyperscaler, it gets like reported to the front page of the Wall Street Journal or even the New York Times, right?
1:38:06
Like >> it's like satellite photos monitoring the >> So so uh through that process, how how did the game change from an investing standpoint?
1:38:15
you know, rewinding, let's say, early 22 to to 23 and then I want to go from like 2023 to 2024 and like understand those those changes because it's just been >> ramping up to such an extreme degree and it still feels like there's a ways to go. >> Oh, absolutely.
1:38:33
I mean, the first transition was in call it 2010 when cloud really came on the scene, right?
1:38:39
So, so you had data centers before 2010.
1:38:42
2010 to sort of 22 you had a big run up in cloud >> and and so that was a whole era of data centers that shifted but really with with the introduction of AI you got this huge increase in density and demand I mean demand was already growing
1:38:57
astronomically but but as you guys know AI is really pushing pushing that and and at the same time and we're also constraining on on power so the biggest transition was just the amount like of of power so in in 200 2010, you know, a five megawatt data center was a good one. 30 megawatts was sort of peak.
1:39:14
30 megawatts was sort of peak.
1:39:17
>> Now, you know, 30 megawatts is a small data center.
1:39:19
Uh you're, you know, everybody wants a gigawatt.
1:39:22
Uh and and so that scale is just astronomical versus what we had before.
1:39:27
And so what we're seeing is, you know, really everything we're doing, including this show, is happening in a data center.
1:39:32
And what's fascinating to me is most people like >> somebody's got to tell Theo Vaughn that.
1:39:38
[laughter] >> I don't know if you saw saw that clip where he's like data centers.
1:39:42
>> No one wants these on his like video podcast >> distributed via a million data centers all over the world. >> It's fascinating.
1:39:49
>> But but but when we talk like my branding firm interviewed a bunch of 20some year olds and they're like where do you think everything that's happening on your phone is happening?
1:39:56
They're like well it's happening on my phone and we're like no it's not it it happens in a building. Yeah.
1:40:00
And but but that creates an arms race right now around AI because everything we do in our lives happens in in a building in digital infrastructure and there is a massive supply constraint because of that that increase in power demand.
1:40:16
increase in power demand. I mean there's only so much power and frankly there's only so much land particularly with the political sentiment right now that you can build these and so having access to a building to house your compute becomes a distinct competitive advantage
1:40:30
>> in the AI >> So what does your search process look like if I'm I mean I've seen data centers in downtown where it's like a converted office building no windows that's probably for a CDN or some local delivery but uh if you're just driving through the middle of America and you see some land. Are you thinking about
1:40:49
Are you thinking about power or is there natural gas in the ground?
1:40:54
Are you how are like or are you doing more of the deals where it's like what happened at Colossus where there was a building that already had a lot of power for manufacturing appliances like washing machines and then it was easier to convert and upgrade that building.
1:41:08
Do you do everything like what's the process for finding a a site?
1:41:12
Yeah, I mean data centers are really giant machines, right?
1:41:17
I think that's probably obvious.
1:41:18
And and what's exciting to me is it's the first time in human history we had buildings that weren't designed for humans truly, right?
1:41:24
You think about most buildings you interact with or real estate or private equity invest in are designed for people.
1:41:31
>> Uh data centers are it's not about a person, it's about a machine.
1:41:34
So So in terms of where do you pick a data center, you're really picking on where the machine wants to go.
1:41:41
>> Machines care about power, right?
1:41:41
So power is you know to get quick power you need infrastructure.
1:41:46
So so we're really looking at infrastructure and then you're looking at fiber uh so that we can get all the digital bits around.
1:41:51
So that's also a form of infrastructure.
1:41:53
So you're really looking at power and fiber first and foremost.
1:41:56
Uh water obviously is a hot topic anymore.
1:41:59
Most of particularly what we're building it's all closed loop systems.
1:42:02
You're not using a lot of water.
1:42:04
And so really it's it's fiber and and power infrastructure.
1:42:10
And and then the third piece is latency.
1:42:12
So, how much time does it take to deliver those digital bits? How close are you?
1:42:16
>> And so, historically, you did not see data centers downtown other than for networking.
1:42:20
>> Uh, today, like we bought the Chicago Board of of Options Exchange building on on Lal Street downtown, and we're turning that into a large AI data center right now.
1:42:28
And that is wonderful because I've got great latency, great fiber, and lots of power infrastructure I can tap into.
1:42:36
But what's fascinating is I can put 50 megawatts in about 40,000 square feet in that building today because of densities.
1:42:44
In 2010, I may have gotten four megawatts in that building. >> Wow. >> Interesting. >> Fascinating.
1:42:49
Um, what does your uh your government relations team or strategy look like?
1:42:57
uh interfacing with neighbors to data centers uh regulators uh senators to you know mayors all sorts of different who are the important constituents to get on board when you're working on a project.
1:43:11
Yeah, I would say part right now.
1:43:13
I mean, you guys obviously are highly aware of this.
1:43:16
The political problem with with data centers is very real right now and and it's interesting because we all use them, right?
1:43:25
Our our lives are dependent on them, but I think there's a need for partnership with the cities and the communities.
1:43:30
So, that's something we take very seriously.
1:43:34
>> You know, I got a question recently about, you know, the data centers are are bad or ugly or are using all our water and power.
1:43:40
A lot of those are either misconceptions or, you know, somebody did build a bad building.
1:43:45
You can always build a bad building.
1:43:46
Uh, and so I would say something we work very hard at is partnering with cities on deploying uh data centers that are not using all the water, are using existing grid infrastructure, and frankly are not ugly.
1:44:02
I mean, I think part of part of the problem is it's not [applause] ugly. >> Yeah.
1:44:07
Is there a uh I mean we were talking about the the cell phone towers in Los Angeles.
1:44:12
They're sort of dressed up like trees.
1:44:14
Uh I don't know that that's effective at being beautiful.
1:44:19
Although they do sort of they do sort of melt into the background of course like when you're up close you can clock it, but when it's just on, you know, the horizon, you don't really notice it.
1:44:26
Um, have you seen any trends in sort of like lowhanging fruit in like, oh, if we just do this, yeah, it'll increase the cost 1%, but the response from the community is going to be 50% better because we did X, Y, or Z. >> Yeah. No, absolutely.
1:44:42
So, I converted a glass or my team and I converted a glass office tower in downtown Minneapolis into a large AI data center.
1:44:48
It's a beautiful building and and in fact, nobody even knows there's a data center in there for the most part.
1:44:55
uh we're doing, you know, the Chicago Board of Option Exchange building is a beautiful architectural building.
1:45:01
>> Part of what I love about data centers is it's really infrastructure and so you can bury it underground, you can put it on top of a roof, you can do these mixed use.
1:45:09
They do not have to look like prisons, which some of them do. >> Yeah.
1:45:13
>> And and so that gives you a lot of creative flexibility.
1:45:17
uh like we're we're building a a green field data center in Texas right now and our architecture team found ways that to do uh fencing that effectively uh you can imagine Frank Garry's you know museums it sort of looks more like that and and so there are actually a lot of windowless buildings that you know we all like culturally and uh and so we take a lot of inspiration from that. >> Yeah.
1:45:39
Basically every every sports stadium is sort of windowless from the outside and yet we love them and they look great. >> Yeah.
1:45:45
Are you are are you involved in any conversations or have you heard of any conversations where uh local communities are effectively asking for direct uh payments >> in order to uh provide support for a data center because you said like we all use data centers but the thing about data centers is Google's going to find a way to serve me no matter what regardless of of if they're my neighborhood or my community open to a data >> center.
1:46:14
three milliseconds of extra latency to put it five counties over.
1:46:18
And so it's very easy to push the not in my county uh rhetoric if the only impact of that's going to be a millisecond of latency or something like that.
1:46:28
>> We're seeing yeah I mean there is a lot of pressure obviously on where data centers go right now.
1:46:33
We are seeing communities make direct asks.
1:46:35
We're seeing tenants and investors such as ourselves uh do as much as we can to benefit the community.
1:46:43
There there are significant benefits.
1:46:45
So, let me take my building in in downtown Minneapolis.
1:46:49
That building's uh recently sold for we still manage it, but it recently sold for the highest price of a building in Minneapolis or in Minnesota.
1:46:57
>> Um and so you imagine that building when I stepped into it was basically mostly worthless.
1:47:03
It was an office building, mostly vacant, let's call it less than $30 million of value, and and now it's one of the the the highest priced buildings in in Minnesota.
1:47:11
I mean, that shift is and and it still looks like a beautiful glass office tower. Yeah.
1:47:18
>> It's not using huge amounts of water.
1:47:20
>> And you're saying that it's like massive Yeah.
1:47:22
massive increase in property tax revenue >> because the new sale price.
1:47:25
That makes a lot of sense. Interesting.
1:47:28
>> Well, and then you you also have hundreds of millions of dollars of infrastructure going in from the tenants. >> Sure.
1:47:32
you've got hundreds of millions of dollars in investment from us.
1:47:34
We did create new jobs and so so those are good.
1:47:38
Those are obviously positive benefits um on a you know we are seeing everything from uh tenants and and uh investors sponsor everything from new fire stations and fire trucks to uh you know uh benefits for for housing, schooling uh in addition and on top of sort of just tax benefits, right?
1:47:56
What is your process for sequencing out finding tenants?
1:48:02
I imagine it's sort of a if you build it they will come moment for you but uh in terms of talking to hyperscalers neoclouds doing something yourself partnering with a chip company I mean everyone is participating in various levels of the stack.
1:48:16
What does it look like for you as you're uh sussing out an opportunity? Yeah.
1:48:23
And obviously it's a it's a big deal right now for anybody to have access to um to to infrastructure for compute, right?
1:48:32
So the the hyperscalers, the the neoclouds, everybody's competing for the same space.
1:48:36
In fact, we often see that >> um the same we've had video game companies, Neocloud cloud uh users all try and get in the same building, right?
1:48:48
So So everybody's competing for a fairly um limited supply.
1:48:50
It is very I would say it functions much more like partnerships.
1:48:55
partnerships. similar cities very partner oriented tenants it's very partner oriented because these are huge massive capital investments right so on the low end you're looking at half a billion dollars on the high end you're looking at $10 billion right and so but they're making just as big of investments I'm guessing that's obvious
1:49:14
but you know they're they're the ones providing the chips and uh and serving their customers too and so and so there's mutual investment on both sides so there's a I would say a tight relationship between the tenants and developers and capital partners such as ourselves uh to help make sure these are successful. Nobody wants them to not be
1:49:31
Nobody wants them to not be successful.
1:49:34
Um but it is speculative on the capital's part.
1:49:38
So these are not build disuts like we're not we're not sort of buying land with a tenant in tow.
1:49:44
We're buying land and getting the development going and risking capital to make sure that they have it on time that they need it.
1:49:52
Uh, >> friend of mine is in the art business.
1:49:53
I know you're a collector.
1:49:55
He was telling me over the weekend about what a mess the the the art world is right now in the art industry.
1:50:01
Does that make it a great time to be a collector? >> Uh, yeah.
1:50:06
Well, there's what I love about art collecting is it's a lot like investing, right? >> Yeah.
1:50:12
You want to buy low and sell high.
1:50:14
So, if like the market's in turmoil and it's bad, it's probably a good time to >> acquire things that you love.
1:50:21
>> Uh, before a a correction upward.
1:50:21
But how have you been approaching it?
1:50:26
>> Yeah, I would say yeah, exactly that.
1:50:26
I think the art market the the argument is always bet on art history, right?
1:50:32
So so what's fascinating about art is it captures this moment in time, right?
1:50:38
Where there's there's a shift in perspective or ideas or thinking and and that's where the great art really is and the value tends to be captured in those pieces.
1:50:46
And so uh so I would say my particular art investment >> leanings collectings are on you know what's big in art history.
1:50:54
what's big in art history. So, like I just picked up a Dan Favven uh who was uh famous for light light art, light bulb art, um in the 60s and uh and so I got the piece uh this month the first piece he ever did with multiple light bulbs and uh the whole thesis to that is
1:51:13
well one it's beautiful and and I love it but but two it's it's an important moment in art history and so you know you're sort of it's it's like betting on core real estate or or I suppose you know a great tech tech company that's building something brand new. >> Does uh does does buying a historically
1:51:28
>> Does uh does does buying a historically significant piece of art feel more risky than buying uh than buying let's say like a rundown building or a billion a building like you described in Chicago or is it feel about the same?
1:51:43
Do you have a similar uh confidence level when buying both?
1:51:50
I would say what I love is both of them have a lot of specialized knowledge and so if you have the specialized knowledge you can do sort of that risk adjusted analysis.
1:51:59
So I would I would say they feel equivalent to me.
1:52:01
At least the ones that that I've been the bets that I were making feel equivalent to me.
1:52:06
But you know data centers uh adaptive reuse you know real estate all all of that is just highly specialized right and so so you know I like a lot of people I surround myself with other really smart people to give me good guidance but it it feels like a safe bet.
1:52:23
>> Have you ever thought of combining the two passions?
1:52:25
I know that you're describing this glass building, which which sounds amazing, but have you thought about working with a contemporary artist to try to make the world's most beautiful data center?
1:52:34
I feel like that would be a good kind of flagship project for you that I at least would like to see. >> Yeah.
1:52:42
Uh yes, we have some things in the works in Chicago.
1:52:44
In fact, uh one of my favorite, this is maybe slightly different than where you're going, but my favorite example of this is what Louis Vuitton did on Fifth Avenue. >> Yeah.
1:52:55
in Manhattan where they wrapped a construction project in what looks like a giant Louis Vuitton trunk and uh I have an apartment right around the corner from it and I see people photograph it constantly >> and and I I love that idea but but I keep thinking can we wrap data centers in something that's interesting and beautiful. >> Yeah.
1:53:12
>> Uh that that people want to photograph instead of hate. >> Yeah.
1:53:16
Something where if aliens are are monitoring us, they're like what what are these crazy things that they're so obsessed with? I like it. >> Um, >> awesome.
1:53:27
>> Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come on the show.
1:53:29
>> Yeah, thanks for thanks for the update.
1:53:30
>> Have a fantastic weekend. >> Absolute pleasure. Thanks for having me.
1:53:34
>> We'll talk soon, Daniel. Cheers. >> Goodbye.
1:53:37
>> Our next guest is the president and head of artificial intelligence at Replet.
1:53:42
Michaela is in the waiting room and we're excited to talk about all things live coding.
1:53:49
The shift from Vive coding to Vive building. break it down for us. Welcome to the show. How are you doing?
1:53:56
>> Hey guys, describe me. How are you doing?
1:53:59
>> Thanks so much for taking the time. >> We're doing great.
1:54:01
>> Uh >> uh three-day weekend. What did you build? >> Ooh, good question.
1:54:06
>> I built a sunburn on my back.
1:54:06
[laughter] >> I worked hard.
1:54:12
>> I was flying to Paris. >> Oh, okay.
1:54:14
>> I'm calling you from Paris right now. Yeah.
1:54:16
I'm going to be seeing race summit.
1:54:18
>> Well, thanks for staying up late.
1:54:18
Uh so uh why don't you set the table for us, introduce yourself a little bit and uh explain how you fit into the organization and what the top projects are forlet in your world they are these days. >> Yeah.
1:54:32
So as I said I'm president and head of AI basically means everything technical the company currently rolls up to me.
1:54:39
>> I'm the person who you know came up with the push of creating rapid agent and led the project from day one and this happened back in September 2024.
1:54:46
If you recall, back coding didn't even exist as a term back then.
1:54:51
It was coined in February 2025, if I recall correctly.
1:54:55
So, >> we are the first one to launch in that space and we we basically pioneer them, you know, we chart this new market that keeps expanding like crazy.
1:55:01
We had four major agent releases in the meantime.
1:55:07
And if anything, I'm more exciting about the mods that are about to come rather than the crazy roller coaster we went through in the last couple of years because the capabilities are expanding so much that naturally the scope we have as a company will just extend like crazy.
1:55:23
>> So pitch me like it's 3 months from now.
1:55:27
It's September and October.
1:55:27
Uh and I'm non-technical, someone who has, you know, heard about the AI boom but uh doesn't really know where to start.
1:55:35
What are you instructing someone in a few months from now?
1:55:39
How should they be interacting with Replet and Replet agents to do something?
1:55:42
What's a good hello world on absolute steroids project for them to get started with?
1:55:51
>> Think about it this way.
1:55:51
For the last two years at least, we've been talking about agents all the time.
1:55:58
>> But it's still extremely difficult for everyone to build their own agents. Mhm.
1:56:02
>> And in a sense, you know, we've been lucky because, you know, a company like Rapid could grow so much because we know we pioneered the space, >> but now I want everyone to be capable of creating their own agents.
1:56:12
>> And the reason is fairly simple.
1:56:12
If I can make a prediction, I do believe that sooner than later, we're going to be seeing far fewer apps being used rather than agents.
1:56:21
And the reason is we we built UIs, we built computers in this way in the last decades because the only way we had to interact with them was keyboards and mouse and click and data input which is very much errorprone.
1:56:33
The way you work instead is you talk to your colleagues, you discuss, you decide what to do, you express in natural language your intent and then you either delegate or you do you get the job done yourself. Well, guess what? Agents do exactly that.
1:56:48
You know, the more autonomous we make them, the more capable we make them, the more they're going to be able to complete tasks end to end and I want everyone to be capable of building their own customized agent.
1:56:58
So, >> three months from today, if we chat again, I will be mostly talking about that and our product will be pushing that direction very much. >> Okay.
1:57:08
Talk to me about the split between these three use cases that I see uh coding agents generally being used for.
1:57:17
One is um the ad hoc go and do something.
1:57:22
Pull a bunch of information.
1:57:24
Uh I did this most recently uh looking around my neighborhood looking at different lots and registrations of the government.
1:57:32
Go pull a bunch of data, organize it into a spreadsheet, turn that spreadsheet into an infographic, work through all of that like you were a a super powerful executive assistant who knew how to write Python and scrape the web to produce a single report.
1:57:46
basically deep research on steroids.
1:57:49
Then the second bucket that I see a lot is I want a daily summary.
1:57:51
I want you to do something for me that requires AI and LLMs to summarize information, put something together, something that runs continuously.
1:58:00
And then the third is go build me a piece of software one time uh deterministic software and then I will interact with that software on a regular basis.
1:58:09
So uh Ben Thompson just went on a vibe coding journey.
1:58:12
He built a inventory management system for his house.
1:58:16
Uh it is a piece of deterministic software that runs uh on his local network and then once he is interacting with it is pure deterministic software.
1:58:27
There is no AI inference that's happening really.
1:58:29
Maybe it calls out to an API but those three buckets is that a good way to think about the way people are using AI today?
1:58:35
What's the breakdown and how do you see it evolving?
1:58:40
I think it's a great way and the last bucket you mentioned the deterministic software the fact that you can build a lot of internal tools and you see a lot of solopreneurs creating software 0ero to1 on replet that's where most of the effort went in the last couple of years
1:58:57
>> I think we're going to be seeing a shift very quickly away from that >> apps are not going to be disappearing overnight they still play a role s will play a role in companies for a long long time >> y >> but it's also through that sound that
1:59:10
software can be replaced by agents accomplishing tasks hand to end and that's [clears throat] I think if we >> yeah and is that is that is that the fat models like you used to go to an LLM and ask it to do 2 plus two and it would
1:59:24
guess four then it was able to write a little bit of Python but and and that's just expanding to the point where the actual LLM itself the the API for the model can do more and more capabilities and the agent harness will be able to do more and more as well. So you
1:59:40
So you essentially instantiate whatever software you need ad hoc on the fly and you expect that to grow. >> Exactly. Right.
1:59:49
LM have become much better at longer horizon on tasks and you see them working like even for hours in a row. >> Yep.
1:59:55
The additional layer that we put on top of them the agent harnesses are such that you can also introduce verification criteria so that for example you come up with a high level goal say you built an app on rapid and then you want to optimize the conversion rate and you set a 5% as a goal but guess what you can have an agent doing that for you don't have to prompt it on the specifics on how to make that happen.
2:00:20
It will connect to your app.
2:00:22
the agent will decide to improve conversions, maybe I need to change the copy of the website, maybe I need different images, maybe I need like a different pricing page >> and then you keep measuring until it accomplishes the goal.
2:00:33
That's what you have been hearing more and more being talked, you know, in the industry as loops.
2:00:39
>> And I would call this like the postprompting era.
2:00:42
>> We don't put much effort in prompting anymore.
2:00:44
Even if you hear entropic researchers and engineers explaining how to use table 5. >> Mhm.
2:00:51
>> The main insight is stop giving it prescriptions, stop giving it rules, just tell the model what you want to accomplish and then trust the process. >> Yeah.
2:01:00
>> Well, that's the type of product I think we're going to be seeing build more and more in the future. >> Mhm.
2:01:04
The goal finding Jord finding. Exactly.
2:01:07
K, you you mentioned going going back to your earlier call out on uh c you know people building customized agents.
2:01:15
What uh are are these are these is this like entirely personal software or do you see this as like one person companies where they'll build an agent and sell it to other people? Is it both?
2:01:28
I'm having trouble uh I've been just experimenting lately and trying to every time I think oh I should try to use oh I need I need some information from an app.
2:01:41
So like I use surf report as an example >> like I'll just ask chat hey what's the surf report for this spot.
2:01:50
>> Yeah >> and it does it quite well.
2:01:50
You can do it for the weather.
2:01:52
You can do it for so many different apps.
2:01:55
And I expect that agents as they get better and better will just be able to >> anything that I could imagine a custom agent to do personally, >> the agent >> the models can do.
2:02:09
>> And I've seen this a lot where people will go and build they'll vibe code a solution to something that the model can do natively.
2:02:14
And then you'll be like, "Yeah, I have a piece of deterministics software that does all it summarizes all my emails."
2:02:21
And it's like, well, you can actually just integrate your email directly and ask. >> Yeah.
2:02:25
And so part of me part of me is like I just I don't know if I'm I have I'm being creative enough to think of use cases uh or >> or what I think the rule of thumb to be as creative as possible is you need to think in general terms.
2:02:40
>> You don't have to narrow down on I want an agent that asks me to come back to the few applications that I use on a daily basis.
2:02:46
You need to start to think in goals. Mhm.
2:02:49
>> And the moment you have a goal and you want to get some type of work done, then allow the agent to decide what are the steps necessary and allow the agent to create the code in order to make that happen.
2:03:01
>> Now there's one advantage only if you actually create a piece of deterministic software is that you trade that in flexibility for the cost of tokens. >> Yeah.
2:03:10
So every time you just allow the model to do the majority of the work, you're actually spending quite a bit of money, especially if you need to use frontier capabilities.
2:03:17
So a lot of the tools, the internal tools built on rapidly today, they tend to be very deterministic also for the reason because if they start to be used by hundreds of thousands of people in a company, you don't want them to, you know, be hitting the frontier models otherwise it's, you know, financially irresponsible to do that.
2:03:35
Uh, last question for me.
2:03:35
Uh, get me up to speed on the state of soloreneurship and I want a prediction from you on when you think we'll see the first oneperson 1 billion dollar company.
2:03:50
>> It doesn't really happen.
2:03:50
You probably read about that on the New York Times. Controversy.
2:03:55
>> I don't think that one counted.
2:03:55
I don't think it doesn't count. Okay.
2:03:57
I I it was close, but I it there were too many too many complaints from uh customers.
2:04:03
It seemed like they bent the rules of the marketing and they were getting hit with some FTC FDA uh issues.
2:04:09
Uh I want I want a clean fing$1 billion valuation.
2:04:18
>> Let's give you another shot.
2:04:18
I would say by the end of the year we have several >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
2:04:23
We have several nine figures company built on rabbit.
2:04:25
So, he's going to help them.
2:04:28
>> Yeah, [music] >> we're almost there. >> I love it. I love it.
2:04:30
Well, uh yeah, definitely shoot us a note when it happens.
2:04:33
If you see it inside rapid, have them pitch us.
2:04:36
We'd love to talk to them. >> Hold me accountable. >> Yeah.
2:04:39
But thank you so much for coming on the show. >> Great to meet you. >> Enjoy. Safe travels.
2:04:43
And we'll talk to you soon. Goodbye. >> Thank you guys. >> Goodbye.
2:04:48
[applause] >> Should we close out with this raw rule post?
2:04:52
Guys selling post-trained open- source models.
2:04:55
If you don't own your own models, you don't own anything.
2:04:57
Guys selling harness on top of models, if you rely on one model, you are cooked.
2:05:01
Guys selling tokens, instead of manually prompting your models, just put them in a loop where they prompt themselves.
2:05:06
Uh, and Paula says, "Guys selling GPUs." Yes. >> Which is accurate.
2:05:12
Uh, everyone has a very different version of their modern sales pitch. We did not.
2:05:18
>> Let's close out on this. >> Yeah.
2:05:20
What What are we talking?
2:05:21
>> Tony Robbins says his AI agent bought a robot dog to merge with.
2:05:26
Oh, I didn't realize it was a dog.
2:05:26
I thought it was a I thought it was a humanoid, but I was talking to Ray Kerszswhile. It's a one minute clip.
2:05:33
We'll pull this up and play Tony Robbins in conversation with Ray Kerszswhile, author of The Singularity is Near.
2:05:38
One of the uh most accurate AI forecasters in history.
2:05:44
Ray Kurszswe uh called the date of the touring test 20 years in advance, almost to the day.
2:05:50
Very impressive forecast.
2:05:53
He's calling Singularity 2035, I think, maybe 204.
2:05:59
>> This might be technologies daily show, but today is not our day with technology.
2:06:05
>> But this this is not a technology issue.
2:06:07
This is a this is a nearpeer adversary attacking us.
2:06:09
They want to keep us from watching this video.
2:06:11
And so, well, >> people are talking about a Space XAI rebrand.
2:06:18
>> Oh, >> what's going on there?
2:06:20
>> I thought that was already a thing.
2:06:20
I thought they already said uh they were going to call it SpaceX AI, which uh really sort of a mouthful.
2:06:28
>> Let's pull up this video. >> SpaceX is doing well.
2:06:30
It's still a$2 trillion company.
2:06:32
trillion company. the float is still low and they're unlocking more and more of the shares but the the value has been holding strong north of 2 trillion which I think a lot of folks who were giving very bearish takes saying that oh the
2:06:46
company doesn't make that much money that uh it would be you know it would be worth a palry 100 billion by now but no it has been cooking uh don't try and pull things up >> this video live stream does not have the technology >> doesn't it doesn't >> to to live. >> There were the timeline was in turmoil
2:07:03
>> There were the timeline was in turmoil >> before the break on July 2nd over some anderal SPV action that happened.
2:07:09
Matt Grim took a shot at Pachy McCormick saying that uh not boring raised an SPV that uh bought into around a couple years ago of Vanderol and then Pachy came back set the record straight and said that he didn't sell and that in fact uh it was an LP that had sold and uh it all underscores just how complicated some of these later stage investing uh deals get.
2:07:34
Um, sometimes if you're a, you know, an investor and you have an LP and they're going through some financial situation, maybe a divorce, maybe a lawsuit, they could need liquidity for something, they're moving things around like the the the ask can be more serious than I think people normally jump to.
2:07:54
They always jump to, oh, are they just like trying to flip the stock or something and that is, you know, not the activity that you want to have happen.
2:08:02
But, uh, it is it is a very tricky situation.
2:08:04
lots of gray areas and I think the the end result is that uh open conversation almost always benefits.
2:08:12
No surprises is the rule.
2:08:12
Uh and also I don't think you should be able to buy or sell and secondary unless you can beat Matt Grim in a MURF.
2:08:19
I think that would solve a lot of this.
2:08:21
I think it should all come down to your MURF time.
2:08:24
In order to redeem your shares in Anderal, you should be able to you should have to post video evidence of you doing uh a MURF.
2:08:30
Probably sub 45 minutes, maybe sub 40 minutes would be ideal to really get access.
2:08:36
Uh that is the future of investor relations.
2:08:39
Could apply to all companies, honestly.
2:08:40
You want to buy or sell, you got to do you got to run a mile, do 100 pull-ups, 100 push-ups, 100 uh 100 sit-ups.
2:08:47
What is >> 100 pull-ups, 200 push-ups, 300 squats, >> 300 squats. He's been practicing.
2:08:52
He's trying to get in on the next and SPV for sure. Win Matt over.
2:08:58
Uh, anything else you want to touch on today, Jordy or should >> Ben?
2:09:02
The video is playing for me. >> Okay.
2:09:05
Well, >> but >> it's a skill issue apparently. >> It is a skill issue.
2:09:10
>> Um, >> anyways folks, uh, Portugal, Spain 000 at the half. >> We missed nothing. >> We missed nothing.
2:09:18
Thanks for tuning in with >> us.
2:09:21
We'll be back tomorrow back tomorrow 11. >> It's July.
2:09:24
That means we get a little silly around here.
2:09:28
>> You're gonna hear lots of car questions from our for our interviewers for our guest.
2:09:32
>> But if you have tech news, >> Yeah. >> hit us up.
2:09:35
>> You know, it is funny. It is funny.
2:09:38
>> You know, we get into these slower summer months >> and then all of a sudden you have just insane days. >> Yeah.
2:09:43
>> So, you got to be live every day. Got to be ready. >> Yeah.
2:09:45
I mean, the basic cycle of of tech news will slow down.
2:09:47
Venture capitalists are famously on vacation from May 15th to September 27th, right?
2:09:54
That's when they go on vacation, right?
2:09:58
>> Usually midocctober is like realist >> when they come back. Yeah.
2:10:00
Um but uh that leaves opportunities.
2:10:03
Last year we got the talent wars.
2:10:06
Zuck didn't take any breaks.
2:10:08
He was poaching left and right.
2:10:10
Uh so we'll always there's always a chance we get a wild card, but uh things have been slow.
2:10:14
So, lots of time to discuss vehicles and other fun topics, but stay with us.
2:10:19
We will see you tomorrow at 11:00 a. m. Pacific. Have a great week. Have a great day. Let's go USA.
2:10:26
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