0:00
Alex, I want to ask you about the person behind the idea.
Search this video
0:02
You built this enormous $17 billion business.
0:04
We talked about the rapid growth.
0:06
As a venture capital investor now, we we're often looking at pre-seed.
0:11
We're looking for like insights into is this person somehow very special?
0:15
That this we can see at the beginning of this person is going to go build a really big business or at least has an unfair chance of doing so.
0:23
Did Did you see that in yourself when you were getting started?
0:25
Did Did you believe that you were going to do it to this degree?
0:29
>> There's two parts of this.
0:29
I could tell you yes, 100%.
0:30
I always knew I can tell you the real answer, which is like I don't think most entrepreneurs do.
0:34
I think what they're most excited about is can I build something that's really impactful?
0:39
Can I build something that's going to help people?
0:41
Can I build something that's going to generate you know revenues for my shareholders and things like that.
0:46
Although I don't think people think I think I don't think most founders think of that part early on.
0:48
I think you know, it's just a an instant instant end, right?
0:54
In terms of how you how you function, how you're structured.
0:57
So yeah, I mean the real answer is no.
0:58
What What I knew is that I wanted to build.
1:03
Uh and yeah, I think the team you were with before, right?
1:05
In In London, the venture team you were before saw me through a few iterations of what building really is, right?
1:12
Uh and you know, building a lot of different products.
1:13
I just saw myself as someone that wanted to build products and put in the hands of people and and and get their feedbacks and thoughts and iterate on this really quickly and that mindset I think is the most valuable mindset, right?
1:26
If this is what you're driven by or if you're driven by something that has shaken you at the core and built you at the core as you were a bit younger, uh then I think you're more likely to be successful.
1:35
Now, what does successful mean from a scale is a lot harder to to to really say, but you know, I've I've seen enough founders around me where I know their business is going to fail, but I know they're going to be successful.
1:49
And it's just a matter of how many times they're going to try.
1:50
And the more they try, the more likely they're going to get there.
1:55
>> You've talked about being in constant war time as a as a CEO.
1:57
It's a war time >> I'm a I'm a war time CEO.
2:00
This is why I have a Ben Horowitz working with me all the time.
2:05
>> [laughter] >> What What Why and what does that mean and what kind of a leader are you?
2:10
>> One thing we're not very good at Dylan, I think that's the caveat of being a quote unquote war time CEO is we're not really good at reflecting and patting ourself on the back and say good job you've done a good you know you've done something great there or something like that.
2:23
It's not really how we function.
2:25
Um so what that means is at every single instant, every single week, every single deal, every single product releases we're very intense because we feel like we're at a war all the time.
2:36
And And the funny part is we're not at war with others.
2:40
I actually think we're probably one of the best if not the best company in our space.
2:43
We're very much at war with ourself in terms of how we build for our customers and how we think about our customers.
2:48
And this is something that I think we carry through out the whole company, right?
2:51
Um I think there is some people Yeah, I think there is some great CEOs.
2:59
Uh we are usually here in good times, you know, you kind of like take the company and you kind of like cruising it and you know spending a lot of time thinking about um things you in my opinion shouldn't be worried about specifically when the whole world is changing consistently.
3:14
And And there are the CEOs that create chaos in the organization but chaos that results into in my opinion really really good outcomes and that's usually what I'm what I am, right?
3:22
And if you think about how for example we've adapted and navigated AI over the last 3 months I can tell you that the only way to go through transition like this is through being a full on war time as a whole, not just at the CEO level.
3:40
>> Does part of that war time-ness come from the the shots that have been fired at you from all sides?
3:45
I mean you've got this insane lawsuit where you know your competitor accused you guys of doing corporate espionage and it blew up on Twitter and it must have been incredibly intense for you and your family.
3:56
Is is part of the fire in the belly I know you probably can't talk about the specifics of the lawsuit, but just this idea of your competitors coming for you.
4:03
You're an outsider to Silicon Valley. They're coming for you.
4:06
How does that make you feel?
4:09
>> Yeah, to be honest not really, you know, I think as you grow as a business people are going to try to eat your lunch, right?
4:15
However they can specifically when you're winning in the marketplace which is what we we keep on doing and we want to keep on doing.
4:20
So you know, not really I think we've always been very focused on ourselves.
4:25
It's what I was telling you earlier like we're at constant war but we're at constant war with ourselves more than anything else.
4:32
I think it's you know, this type of things are expected obviously a lot of interesting allegations and we we look forward to to our day in court on that front but you know, I think it's part of growing up, right?
4:43
It's part of building a great company and uh again, we'll always prefer to compete from a product and customer perspective which is what we've continued to do and we'll keep on doing that way.
4:53
>> Alex, the other question that Elliot Ackerman our mutual friend told me to ask you is just about the values that you and Shoo have for Deal and how that sort of parleys into not just kind of values on the wall but the reality of how you operate the company.
5:06
>> The different values we're built on are always very similar, right?
5:09
Like what I care about from a business standpoint is do we care about our customers?
5:16
So one of the values genuine care.
5:18
Do we genuinely care about our customers?
5:19
Do we do the right things for them and and that's very critical.
5:23
One it's how I'm built as a person and it's how I was raised and and the education that my parents gave me.
5:29
So so it's something that we want to carry forward but specifically in a business like ours, right?
5:34
I think every single company should care customer obsession whatever you want but when you're dealing with people's payroll, people's livelihood, people's contract, it just got to be through through roof, right?
5:45
And it's something that's very important to me beyond that because as you build a larger company and as you scale, what typically happens within your organization is you start losing a little bit of the empathy, right?
5:58
Like when a customer support person takes on their number 300 ticket of the week, maybe they don't have the same empathy that they have on the first one that they came.
6:05
But when it comes to the customer themselves, again, with the trust that they're putting into your hands, that empathy and that care is something that you need to carry forward and always be looking at whenever you're dealing with them.
6:17
And that's super important.
6:20
Uh and then, you know, if you combine that with the fact that our customers, because it is so important, expect us to move really fast, hence the deal speed.
6:27
Uh I would say those two principles are very much the guiding principle of what made us a business, really.
6:30
Um you know, what one one you know, we have a few other principles which I'm very proud of.
6:36
Um another one we have is default optimism and I think we really live by that.
6:40
You know, you're asking me about like mitigations, competition, stuff like that.
6:43
You know, I'm a um what we call like a default optimist.
6:45
Um the initial way we had um carried ourselves there is we we wanted to convey that we want to hire happy people, which is like a kind of a weird thing to write.
6:54
So, that's why we decided default optimism made it all more sense.
6:57
And what we mean by that is, you know, um work-life balance is very important, but the truth is you spend more time talking and working with people that often you spend with your family themselves, right?
7:10
So, if you're going to spend a lot of time with me and if you're going to spend a lot of time with my team, might as well spend it with uh people that make you happy and are excited to be here.
7:18
And that's something that we try to carry forward into every single person we hire at the business and we bring into the company. >> Love that. No energy sappers.
7:27
>> No, they don't usually last very long.
7:28
You know, that the good thing about Deel is because of how we built, uh it's very easy to know whether or not you're going to be a fit into our culture.
7:37
>> Alex, we ask every guest who comes on Giant Ideas to, I guess, talk about three photographs, real or imagined, snapshots that kind of defined your life, that particularly the wisdom that you've learned along the way and that have shaped you.
7:51
>> Yeah, one of the snapshot I have in my head very early on at Deal, uh we're going through YC, I told you we brought our whole team to San Francisco at the time.
8:00
And like you said, we're seen again by the outsiders, which uh is a huge advantage in many different ways and also disadvantage in others, but living through that YC experience and bringing my team over uh was the most like iconic startup thing I ever had in my head, to be very honest with you.
8:19
And the one image I have is you know, we're very small, we just had YC's money and we wanted to be very frugal, so we all slept in the same tiny apartment.
8:28
And I remember one of my engineer having a nice air mattress in the bathroom because that's the only place we had enough room to put them.
8:35
So, I I remember that that very vividly um it being to me like the the most iconic like, you know, you're building a startup type of vibe that most people are kind of looking for. So, that's one.
8:48
I won't lie to you like that.
8:48
The same deal on the sleeve of different people just hit very differently, right?
8:53
Like with that Arsenal partnership, when you're walking through the streets of London and like people are sending you pictures of people wearing your brand, like I know I know there is like it just feels it just feels unique, right?
9:08
And you know, I think I think it's probably the first time my parents were like, "Wow, okay, like I'm kind of proud of you too."
9:12
which is like very cute that everybody around us were very very very proud.
9:15
So, I'd say like we I did not expect it to feel that way, but it definitely felt like an achievement for us.
9:23
And as I told you before, we we don't celebrate achievements very often, so that one definitely felt like a like a big one for us. >> I love that one.
9:31
I've got a friend, a very good friend, who's a huge Arsenal fan, who's a venture capital investor, who shall remain nameless, and he passed on your seed round.
9:40
And he said it's painful painful enough to him already the deal story and and but seeing it kind of infiltrate his love of Arsenal is a daily reminder of his failure as an investor.
9:52
>> And we will be happy to invite him to watch a game at the Emirates whenever he wants.
9:56
So, just pass him on that message.
9:57
No, but like I mean, you know, it's it's it's very new for me and I just, you know, when you make investments like this, you don't expect that outcome. It's just I don't know.
10:07
It's it's it's a very unique feeling.
10:08
It's very hard to describe, but I'm just very proud of it.
10:11
Um last one, let's see if I can find something interesting for you. Well, okay.
10:17
So, I have that story, which is uh very defining for Deal.
10:20
Maybe it's like not the same definition as like what what you're looking for, and I'm sure if we were playing a little more like, you know, speaking of it together, I'll come up with 10 others, but that one very much embody my vision of why I think a lot of people my age, from my generation, can make remote work. Um remote work work.
10:44
Uh and the main reason is like I'm from the generation of people that used to watch their cuz their big cousins or their big brother play video games.
10:54
And you used to be like kind of sitting next to them, see them play, cuz that's when like the Nintendo 64 and like the Sega were kind of starting to come out and like multiplayers Golden Eye, like you know, all of the different Nintendo games were starting to come out.
11:07
And you know, my big cousin used to to play and you know, he he mostly gives you like either a fake remote control or one that doesn't work and and you kind of watching him play.
11:16
And eventually you kind of carried that into um gaming in general, where I used to game, I still game from time to time, but I used to, you know, play video games like a League of Legends or whatever, and like being able to like play with people I have never met in my life and still like win, right?
11:34
Or get to really good outcomes.
11:38
And I think that really defined a lot of people in my generation where I can work with you, we can do amazing things, and if I never see you, it's fine cuz like in my culture of like how I grew up uh and how, you know, all my life I was kind of built up like I can totally play with strangers on the internet and get to a to freaking amazing outcome.
11:58
And you know, very funny story on that is my very, very first uh uh employee, or at the the time freelancer, cuz we were still very small, before even Deel started and joined me into Deel, I met through Reddit.
12:14
Quite literally posted something on Reddit where I was like I need someone to help me with designs.
12:19
I have this idea I want to put together.
12:22
And eventually all I knew from him for like the better of 2 years was his Reddit username.
12:26
And we're working together on like a daily basis and like doing, you know, fun stuff and things like that.
12:32
And um I I think that truly is like one of the big generational shift that you know, maybe my parents' generation versus me really have in terms of like why remote work may seem impossible for a lot of people, but why does it feel so tangibly um acceptable for me because like the same way I can win a League of Legends game with four strangers, I can build a great company with anyone.
12:57
And it's a weird concept, but I actually rush This is how I rationalize it in my head, which is fun.
13:04
>> I think that's amazing. Alex, last question.
13:05
You mentioned your parents there.
13:06
You You work with your dad.
13:09
He was the CFO, big part of Deel.
13:12
Um you know, working with family is is big part of business in lot lots part of the world, not so much in the US.
13:15
How do people react to that initially?
13:18
How do US investors react to that?
13:19
Um but but more importantly, how how has it been?
13:23
Has it been It's been an experience, I can imagine, building this juggernaut with with your dad.
13:29
>> Yeah, it's been really fun. I think I'm very lucky. I'm very blessed.
13:31
You know, most people come to me and say, "How How are you doing it?
13:35
How do you work with your dad?
13:36
I would kill my dad if I worked in it."
13:37
I was like, "Yeah, I'm just super lucky I get to spend time with him like uh like you know, not a lot of uh of kids really do, right?
13:44
And I get to learn from him from from his experiences.
13:47
You know, my dad had a pretty long and and prolific career, and the truth is he doesn't really need to work anymore.
13:53
He kind of came out of retirement to build with me and to build with with uh with with Shuo, and uh I think it's such an amazing experience to be able to learn from everything he has done and kind of see him uh in his I think in his prime, to be honest, right?
14:08
Like being able to put forward like 40 years of experience on the table and help us drive a business in a way that you know, having built in friends, you couldn't do before, right?
14:17
Like it's just building an American company with venture capital and like all of those things just a different type of beast, right?
14:25
So, it's been really fun.
14:25
Uh you know, one of the fun characteristics is because he's got the experience, he knows um how to help us get to the to the right places.
14:36
You know, he's actually stepped down from the CFO role.
14:37
He's now the CSO role, or chief strategy officer, and uh we've brought on a new amazing CFO.
14:42
Uh he he's always been very critical in terms of strategic thinking through, you know, M&A's or big partnerships and big decisions.
14:53
Um you know, I'd say you're right.
14:55
Like the at first, a lot of people are like, "Hey, like oh, you're working with your dad.
14:59
It's kind of interesting."
14:59
Well, you know, I think a lot of great businesses were built uh on on family relationships.
15:03
Like you look at Stripe, right?
15:05
Or uh or other amazing businesses out there.
15:08
Uh but as soon as they get to see us interact or start to see what value he brings to the company, then the narrative really switches and people understand how critical it's been to to getting us to where we are as a company.
15:20
So, uh you know, it's very fair to say Deal With It wouldn't be where it is today if it wasn't for him as much as me or Shuo.
15:28
So, I'm I'm very thankful and as long as he wants to to work with us, you know, we'll have him for as long as he wants.
15:34
So, I and I hope that's for a while. >> Amazing.
15:38
Well, he must be a very proud dad.
15:39
You've built an absolute juggernaut of a business incredibly quickly and so many lessons that you very kindly shared with us.
15:47
Thank you, Alex, for sharing your giant idea.
15:49
>> Thank you so much for having me.