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you know we kind of all feel and kind of want a majority of the same things and you know one person might be allergic to like peanut butter or some weird and it's just life is um it's not that weird is allergy is pretty common these
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days that's crazy to me but it's like that's what makes it different is that you can't have a [Music] sandwich why are we getting aent Staples album right now bro I'm happy to have one but what was the purpose of making
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it it's always a purpose uh just to make it um you know we had a lot of stuff going on this far as things with the show and just you know kind of movement in other areas of life and uh just said why not you know making it kind of encapsulate this time period so to say and um I have one more on uh my contract so I was like let's just get it out the way to be completely transparent but I hav't hope for nothing but that I feel
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like that's being the the theme throughout yeah was like it was a why not kind of moment a why not but also there's a pretty good why as well yeah I mean there's always a why when it comes to music if you know you're doing it or approach it in the way I approach it it's just you know a time stamp so to say you kind of see where you fit your thoughts like alongside this production or whatever you know it's current to you
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at the moment and then you know you put it out in you make the next one it's good to see you man good to see you too man it's good to see you man such like such a fun place in my heart for you as a human being for reasons I don't ever need to like say to you right now it'll come with wisdom and wine you've walked this line for me where you're very very honest but you don't stand on it do you know what I mean when I say that you're not like I'm
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an honest guy I'm going to be honest I'm going to make a statement da d da da da you just it just happens naturally through your music and the way you communicate and I really respect that because I think sometimes when we're trying to be honest it can very quickly become a soapbox that we that we stand on we find ourselves on I'm an honest person yeah I mean I feel like I just believe in leaning in on who you are so to say mhm you know if I
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wasn't honest and I wouldn't be I guess you know you are who you are um probably not the best way to think about things but that's kind of where I fit with the thing so I just look at it as know being comfortable in your own skin especially creatively well let's let's take it from there then that's a good place to start really because when I first met you back in probably 2015 and it's nearly 10 years on you we're getting you you're hitting
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congratulations brought you an anniversary mode yeah I'm getting old man you're in anniversary mode man it's okay 10 years is is a youthful anniversary yeah definitely it's a good one though it's a good one to Happ you wait till that debut album is 25 baby we'll be talking we'll be like I'll be old as by then I'll still be here though um so you think about the growth and it's probably not something that you that you maybe you do maybe you don't
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you reflect on too much the records will do that for you but in A Moment Like This given we've known each other for a majority of your recording career if you could take a couple of seconds to just reflect on where you think you've grown the most as an artist and as a creative person where you would acknowledge the the growth in every facet really um from songwriting to just the ability to execute certain things um you know it's it's just as
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deconstructed as it was in the beginning like it's not a bunch of people who I work with or who I you know even know to be honest so being able to do more um and keep that insallation in a sense um being able to kind of give directives um patience is important in music especially when you're you know dealing with other people um no matter what people aren't going to know your thoughts and everyone views things different way so just being able to
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convey the stuff you want to convey and I me not coming across the wrong way or not you know misdirecting someone that's really important um that's a really good point yeah Singularity like not I've never wanted to do anything specific as far as like reach a certain audience or have a certain amount of success or certain um Benchmark Awards nothing like that so you know a lot of people do work for those things you know and it's perfectly
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fine um but you want to make sure that you're not telling someone you know say you walk in a studio with four kids that want you know Grammy more than they want anything in the world and you know you walk in you say oh we're not making this to get Grammys well then you just kind of deflated your room um so you know learning how to coordinate those kinds of things and see what everybody wants separately and making you know a
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collective decision to make sure everybody's happy with it like that kind of stuff is getting the best out of everybody without falling into someone else's Singularity um so so what is now that you've released multiple albums and television series and lots of short form creative ideas and you know you've you've in process without declaring it like a lot of artists do I'm going to do all of this it's great manifest but you're a process
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human like at the end of this 10 years you take a look at your at your slate and it's packed it's really good creative portfolio right um what is the most important part of that do you think ideation execution which one would you put the most emphasis on um the most important part is um execution the part that I care about the most probably audiation right but the most important one is execution yeah for sure yeah yeah yeah that's the
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one that I think a lot of people the unspoken challenge I think in the creative process is the execution that's that's where you trip yeah and um you know execution is a spectrum so to say we haven't um I don't have anything that's deemed to be successful in any medium like cuz you know success is based on certain things you so this many records is successful you sell as many tickets are successful we're like below the
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threshold on everything but it depends on the goals that you set out to do and kind of where you want to live in the world can I tell you what I think success is I think lived a pretty I'm well into my life now mhm having the
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ability to keep showing up and doing what you love and I and I agree that and that's with that's I agree with that that's kind of what I'm saying is that the fact that you can kind of determine that the execution is really important
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because you have to be executing kind of towards something yeah you can't just a lot of people can probably do well with it but I personally can't operate with like a blue sky type scenario it just doesn't make any sense to me so I think execution on any scale is important yeah I agree with that it's funny I've had lots of friends of mine throughout my life who have had big hit moments big hit moments like all of a sudden we were on
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the same Hill and then they on a much bigger Hill like I open my eyes and they're just like way up there I'm like how is it up there and they're like it's awesome up here you can see everything and do whatever you want it's
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great and then you close your eyes and you open the again and they're right back down where you were and I'm like how is it and they're like it's kind of B down here it's like that was pretty thrashy and hectic out there and I'm
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glad I survived it I think I think it can get on can get to yes talent to be able to um to be able to have that level of success and um maintain it um but you got to know who you are and kind of where you fit in those things and I think with me I've always been aware of kind of where I fit within the ecosystem of this whole thing and that allows me to kind of create freely what do you think that is can you put it into words
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where you think you fit what's the yeah I mean I'm not you know obviously like a a tier artist I'm not I don't make music that's you know no one's coming to me like from a fan standpoint looking for a single or looking for um I don't know
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party record or things of that nature so I don't feel those pressures but I do know um the people who listen to my music probably looking for thoughtfulness or creativity the people that you know we wait for them we wait
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for these moments yeah so it's like um that let you know kind of what you need to execute on and other things you can kind of take risks on and if you know you're willing to or you can take risk on the part that people like you know me personally I just kind of do whatever I want yeah it write a hit sometime who cares right do it for fun it's not like you haven't had a couple of hits and you you Canon quite unquote but also
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there's life art there's lifestyle artists in terms of how we relate to them as fans there's there's songs that fit into our lifestyle get them a car five cars are playing the same song lifesty and then there's life and there's people that you look to that are going to just keep moving through your life with you and help you better understand yourself cuz you trust them it's like oh I know you and I think you know you your songs know themselves
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and fans know you through the music that's how I think relate to you it's beautiful thing it sounds good to me man sounds good right sounds good definitely so um the first thing that we noticed when we press playing on this album is um is as always it's a thoughtful experience not just a collection of songs I feel like you put it together there's a thread throughout at least sonically and production wise and a
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feeling that you're striving to achieve here who did you choose to work with what was going on internally for you that made you want to kind of move in this way that where the the drums the instrumentation it's almost got like a sort of 70s kind of deep little bit Jeff barow por his head kind of break Beady type vibe to me um you know it was just kind of what I felt at the moment being able to work with you know the same
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people that worked on this project worked on the last one um and not like we spoke about getting people into that space um with music just kind of feel and think of of things the way that I do like it's nothing is ever really that
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deep it's just kind of listening to your instincts of the things that you feel and you know trust in those things so you know Michael's wuru being there again um Lin Taylor um St Mino worked on it Mike Hector worked on it I have
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aicardo um beat he was on R the to so um Ron was on it a couple people I might be forgetting Julian um but yeah just just you know making the things that just make sense at the moment yeah you every time I've ever tried to dive into you're writing a little bit I felt that there's there's been a variation of that response like I don't it's not that deep but I but the lyrics before me you know would contradict that if I
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was taking them on face Valley right the opening of Shame on the devil which is the song we're playing off the album which is coming um I long for loving and AFF right it's a super big opening statement for a song it's like
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it's it's like a pretty honest open declaration and from there there's just a lot of acknowledging the flaws of The Human Experience and the push in the pole of accountability right and what I'm willing to hold myself accountable for
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and what I'm willing to accept that I'm the mistakes that I make and and that's okay too yeah I feel like it's a great song it's deep as I actually think yeah but like when we think about depth you know a lot of the times from a creative standpoint it's like say thoughtfulness comes with time or reapo and you know things are deep if it's okay I created this because of something that happened years ago and I put in the
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back of my mind and then I Revisited that moment essentially it's like Turn the Beat on and if I have a song in 5 minutes Turn the Beat off and whatever the music sounds like is what the music sounds like but I think life in and of itself has its own layers and it has these kind of elephants that we kind of ignore and um when you acknowledge those things that are like you said human or that everybody kind of understands or goes through
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um then it it to be considered it could be considered deep but I look at it from a standpoint of like it's just kind of what popped up and trying to match the emotion of the music or just kind of thinking about what feel like would sound good based on my perspective cuz we only know the things that we know like I don't really talk about a vast variety of like I don't step outside of my wellhouse cuz I just honestly don't care about the things
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that I don't think about and I there's not a lot of projecting the other worldly emotions that you feel others might be going through it's got to remain very core to your experience well yeah but we're experiencing the same thing so to say and I think that if you can kind of you know it's not rocket science in the day if we can kind of think about the things that we're dealing with or the things that pop up in our head they're probably popping up
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in someone else's head like no one's that special right so if I'm able to execute it from a standpoint of my perspective with these kind of General blanket emotions then I'm pretty sure that someone will find a way to relate to it in some sort of way and if they don't they don't and I just have another song what's the song about uh I don't I don't see I would have to think about it I would have to listen to it and think about it but
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everything that I make is just what pops up on the canvas like I've never entered a song with like it has to be about this I was in um I was in studio other day with one of my friends and he was like yeah man can you change this part like it's too like political like I don't I don't want to get political like girls stuff I was like you got the wrong man cuz you know I'm I'm going to say what what I kind of have to say at the moment
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that's just how I make stuff like I'm I'm not I've never sat down and been like this is about this so um and that doesn't discredit anyone that does do that it's just that's not necessarily my process but I think within my process it being kind of so pure to the way that I think and kind of the things that I feel like are important to me or that I I feel or say or whatever I think um that allows it to relate to other people
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because we're all more similar than we kind of like to give off that's true that's the magic of Music That's the area you're right that's the area that you know most artists I speak to don't acknowledge that because it feels like a
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very personal thing but it wouldn't matter to me unless it was actually way more Universal than that we're we're actually pretty simple we're complex in the most strange ways where we should be simple and we're simple in the
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areas we think we're super complex yeah it's it's very backwards you know we kind of all feel and kind of want a majority of the same things and you know one person might be allergic to like peanut butter or some weird and it's just life is um it's not that weird is allergy is pretty common these days that's crazy to me but it's like that's what makes it different is that you can't have a sandwich Staples I love it oh so what's the
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what's the world look like to you right now if you're absorbing maybe it's going to make it into an album further down the line or maybe you're going to write something or create something new where are we at how are we doing how's Humanity right now I mean you know it's kind of where it always is MH I think we kind of pick and choose what we want to acknowledge at certain times and that's fine as well is that because we only
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have a certain amount of tools yeah I feel like yeah like cuz it's always like some It's Always A variation of a similar up thing yes it's it's Viewpoint and you know it's not like we have the internet and all that stuff I get but a lot of people have very minimized viewpoints and very minimized perspectives so you know you only kind of know what you're shown or what you know the world wants you to see or what just happens and go across a
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feet or something like that so I think the world is always going to be the world as humans we have these issues that we try to overcome that's you know next to Impossible because just human nature and you know as it is also in human nature to kind of keep trying or improving and it's also into human nature to like shame people and so yeah that's up that that to me is like probably the most toxic difficult thing that because that's in everything
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right yeah and we all we all do it every single one of us so that simple floor which the internet just like oh man it's like catnet for the internet that it's just like ah yeah that thing that you really want to exercise
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that part of you that you know sucks he's going to rip somebody dude I'm so I'm so OCD I have to pull words back and Rewind them if like if I say something that I think bad Vibe like I take that back and I say it out loud my friends
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think I'm crazy cuz I just want to just not have it on the energy record of the universe yeah I think I yeah it's like when the world is the world man like that's why when it comes to music or anything like it's just you know capture the capture the snapshot and you know keep it moving I'm not you know really trying to fix or change it's like I've have a very morbid um opinion on those kinds of things so I think you know we
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are what we are and I think it's important that people try to be better or try to get better even if it's you know not really happening like that most people are instinctively and then we have to really consciously figure out a way to not be that I think you're one of those people who's the opposite I think you're instinctively like trying to help and then you go but wait I don't want to be too Earnest well I
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need to also now just show that I can I've got a sense of humor and I'm not taking everything too seriously it's just it's just matters bro like um I don't think about any of this ever at all so when you get asked a
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question like how do you feel about this or about this like you want to say like you know we want to be polite to people it's like oh excuse me God bless you like that's everything to me as far as how I kind of speak to people but when
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you got asked the other day about the thing that's now done right the big the big wrestling match and you were like ah H all right well I'm going to give you about 60 seconds on the way the record industry is completely and utterly keeping itself alive and then it's going to leave very few opportunities for any of us in particular any of us in our community in the way that we look and the kind of music that we make going to
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have even less opportunities because they're just all about profit and scalability and there's no ability for us to be able to work with them anymore because they've completely inly missed the point and they've eaten themselves completely inside out and all that has gone away so who's going to represent music what the with B over here doing that and so that wasn't like manners that was like well I mean I I think the context matters way I'm
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saying the context matters right so it's like the the The Morbid truth of the matter is that that was a event called Youth Day in the city of Long Beach word children from the age of 16 to 26 that are in youth programs throughout their
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schools from high school to College Community College sit and they talk to the man and they ask him that question it was a live stream visual now the fact of the matter is that the two questions before that asked by
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the same young man were how do we get more people he was in a program that's basically for people that have been incarcerated to get into Long Beach Community College he asked me a question about how do we stop gang violence and get people to kind of transition their life because it's hard and then he asked the mayor about some resources it was a live streamed event so someone had to be filming the live streamed event on their
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computer and then pages that are dedicated to the city and to people cut out every question that that these children asked about trying to stay alive in this environment that's had over 100 shootings in the first four
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months so if I say plainly no one cares about anybody else then I look crazy but I'm speaking to children so my thing is am I supposed to look at a child who just asks those questions and say yeah I want one of these to kill each other
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lyrically what the are we talking about right but you got to be nice because I understand that people care about these things I personally don't give a but my thing is if you hold the mirror up and say hey why didn't you post the other three pages and you guys are media Outlets dedicated to the city M because that's why you're watching a live stream with the mayor that I didn't post or no one even knew I was going to
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be there so if you've been watching this whole event and you saw no other clip from that event what does that tell you about the world that we live in and I don't really want to get into that because then it's like then we got to start being honest and who wants to be honest this is the music business you know no wants to be honest trying to be I mean trying to be ar we a little bit I don't think so you don't think so no
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what you and I right now well yeah we can be honest but like we know if we get too honest then we all get fired and then we know if it goes bad no one's going to help us so that that's what I mean about being honest like you know
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you know what I mean know yeah so it's like that's what I mean about manners it's like you know the ecosystem in which we all like we all exist but it's like you know what people want you know the you understand the kind of the
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brutality of human nature and um yeah man it's like whatever side of the coin um you fall on the other side of the coin is like is up for persecution and that's just how we are as people and you know we're no better I'm no better but that's just so like my thing my question like what was I supposed to tell the teenage children who were in youth programs to change their community and their lives no you did the right thing man but
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you know the only the only like you said the only thing that presented itself in that particular environment yeah but you know what I'm saying like that's the moment and I'm I'm I'm telling these kids were brilliant like these kids had so many important questions they were asking how to properly coordinate protest so there was no violence on their school campus these are high school children no one cares about these
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things it seems because no out of a 3our live stream and that was in the third hour so you had to be you know what I mean looking at it and I was there pretty much the all time it's just interesting the things that we you know
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look at and um we care about you know I think that by the time the the with the way that we process information now by the time it starts to get shared out the audience is different and the audience has this much time and this
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much and everything has changed that's the purest environment you could be in in that room right there because those kids aren't looking for those distractions in that moment they have you and they're like this is real subject matter these are really important issues that we want to talk about and we we admire you we have your time and it's important to us so we're going to make the most of it but the media is off doing th a billion things a
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second yeah and it's it's it's just funny because you know I get it it's like what I'm saying is that whoever was watching that clearly was part of that initial audience they wouldn't have been watching it or they were just waiting for a moment whether I was there or not cuz like I said no one knew I was going to be that's how our brain works now is isn't it that we yeah the human nature of it is like the human nature of the
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thing is like this is the thing this is the thing let me find the thing I got to find the thing put the thing up and not a lot of people run from the thing it's hard to run from the thing yeah you know yeah God I mean I still get I I actively run from the thing and they tell me I'm just trying to be different so whatever different yeah I don't know man I mean I I don't have that many things in these kind of conversations very rarely is there a
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thing well that's not your that's not your thing it's not my thing yeah I'm not good at that thing yeah you like music yeah it's a Rarity and um music journalism now to be honest I do like music and I also I love where it comes from and I'm super super curious still to this day about where the inspiration and the courage which you need an equal measure comes from to Rel to create and release something to want to actually
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stand by it and be here today and talk about it and say yeah when I'm long gone this will represent a moment in my life and you say you don't think about too hard and I respect that because that's your that's your prerogative as an
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artist to be in the moment move on to the next thing but these things are like I I do think manuscripts they definitely matter I think that's um from artist standpoint that's how it should be viewed but you know just to be frank
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it's so much money and attention and not attention that's probably a negative sounding word but you know so much money and you know um Just Praise that comes with this thing a level of celebrity and um fanaticism is like I don't know it's not your thing well it's not that my thing or not it's that I can I can see how an artist would not think about it in that way because there so much stuff that's put in front of your face like
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you know we're talking about millions of dollarss and it's like when the when the world tells you that that's what matters like it's hard to focus on those elements of it I I very much think about the fact that you know when it's over this is like all you have which is why none of my projects have any continuity and they don't have any followup or you know that's um a very bad business decision to you know oh this is a successful album let's
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follow it up with something similar and not do something that's completely different I I get that that's not the smartest thing to do but that's kind of just how I view the things I've seen it over and over again it's it's what the
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audience it's what we think we want M and then we really don't want anything from you again in this world like who the knows what they want and then you get to a point in time to where you're told every single day what you
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should be doing and you know everyone's pointing out every mstep that really affects a lot of people you know what I mean psychological warfare yeah so when you when when you go into the studio and then you go into a meeting and then you see and then you run across a fan and then you go through a comment and everyone's telling you do this thing it's going to be hard for a lot of people to say well this is how I feel
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cuz everyone's here yeah you know what I mean so I I I get it but I think that you know if you're able to make the music that you want to make no matter where you know no matter where it leaves you you should you know value that um and you know be grateful for yourself cuz like you don't really need that much money like to do that kind of is with people way worse off so way worse off yeah so I think um as and as an artist I feel like
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if you just look at Art throughout the years like it it wasn't really the cash cow across the board that we make it seem like it is now so you know you're not underperforming or you know underwhelming if you kind of value other
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things that's not what the world says and luckily for me I just never really gave a about what anybody has to say cuz I don't it's not like it's real life nobody's ever walked to me say hey bro by the way you should do this or you
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should do this I've never experienced that in my life so it's like no um well that's actually by one by the way one of the best for any young creative who's listening to this right now is that if you can establish in my opinion if you can establish that precedent very early on not in a way that's combative but just in a way that's really thoughtful and firm and like I've got this and if we're going to work well together just trust
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me that trust that others need to give to you we spend out the psychology of the music business is we make this music and then we trust everyone else to go and bring it to life it's so backward yeah I mean and to be honest I mean no one's ever trusted me with anything like besides like Michael Lin like people that I work with obviously yeah and like people every time I've ever been in studio with somebody telling me I should do something
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different so it's like yeah I've never no one's ever ever like not once so um it's understanding um I understand like yeah it's it's about understanding why people do the things that they do and not taking it personal like you can't really take nothing personal in this like it's kind of all over the place and it's changing every moment of every day so I think you know whatever makes happy it might make somebody happy
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to be at that level that you speak about where they're shaking hands and kissing babies and trying to chase the next thing like that's a talent it's a talent to be what people want it's a talent to not be what people want it's a talent to
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find a way to be in the middle think you're make your best OD if you look back over the course of your life I think you got to try and get higher above the cloud I think that's where the the great is but it's but it's art
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so it's like critique is just critique if it's art yeah you know what I mean it's art so it it it ends up falling where it falls I guess a bunch it's thousands of songs that have came out this year so the millions of songs that have came out throughout you know the beginning of music a lot of them shits are probably good nobody give a about him anymore yeah but all fade away but your M your Mision s against anybody but okay let's
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let's talk about n that you name check probably not as literalism about to do it but you you mention Apex Twin in one of your songs on this album right I just think that there's artists out there that figure figure it out early on like
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you like aex twin you know there's Tom York many great artists PJ Harvey great artists all over the world Frank I think is like that he's just like you I'm just going to make what I'm going to make man and you know if it's
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authentic and it's real people love it then should be able to make another one yeah but that's those that's the minority and it's the vast minority and especially when you think about genre cuz none of those people that you name work in my genre of music so that's the limiting factor yeah I was pulling from my ass so I mean I probably could think of a couple of course but I'm just saying like it depends on who you are
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Depends cuz can like say in the environment in which I grew up if I went if I went home I was home yesterday and if I as anybody that's not strictly true I was including you in that but anyway carry on I don't really make rap music like that it's just they wouldn't let me put anything else on it when I came out but that's another conversation we had a meeting about and everything but um when it came time to like you know talk about
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music no I would be surprised if anyone that I grew up with or in my environment and who any of those artists were and that doesn't demean those artists that you name and it doesn't mean their own listening experience I think people are so vast like it's billions of people in this world and we all kind of gravitate towards other things so the fact of the matter is that everybody's best is different and wherever they fit as
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people like they should be able to make that commentary I think that's the main thing that I think is important is knowing who you are and staying true to yourself and your perspective and fitting within that world you know it's
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that's we should be fine to do that where do you find your critical muscle like your you know the critique inside of you is most triggered like what are you most critical of as far as like must music no as far as what you watch or
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listen to or how you relate to other people's art or other people's performance like when do you most charged up about never never it's either you know I like it or I don't but if I don't like it that doesn't make it that doesn't I'll never say I don't like anything ever like it just I don't think it's necessary yeah um I think everybody I don't know it's just I I I value story and I value I guess process so like I can listen to
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like um little Boosy devils and understand that the writing in that is just as complex to me as some Bob Dillan that somebody's going to throw on and say this is the greatest songwriter of all time but I don't know what he's
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talking about I don't relate and I don't care does not doesn't demean what that person is done you know what I mean but when I hear little Boosy Devils it's like I understand exactly what he's talking about understanding Cadence I
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understand the storytelling I understand it um and that puts me in a position where I can say that's like one of my favorite songs I've ever heard um that changes for everybody so like who am I to say this is good or this isn't if
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that's your process know it's it's a bunch of stuff in museums that we don't understand but it's just different medium different time period the way that it's separated the way it's measured is different so within music I
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feel like it's just so many people that have lived so many different lives I don't know all of it so the the music that you make now you this is a this is a a part of your life the writing the the creating is part of your life where what part of life Sparks the most curiosity in you now where would you love to immerse your time and experience to better understand something now is there something that you're particularly curious about that
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you're on the verge of a journey on or that you're starting to really explore um not really and that's something that um I I could be different I wish it was different I'm just not that kind of person I'm um pretty simple it's like I've never wanted to really you know travel or to any part of the world I've never wanted to do any of those things just naturally it's not like I'm not um that kind of person like I'm cool just being at home
32:19
chilling going down the street so what's touring like for you I'm on the bus and I'm in the hotel and I do my show and I go to sleep I don't they go out but I don't I've never been that kind of person I might walk to get some food or something like that by myself but you're not exploring the city no no and I I probably should but it just it's not in me we were recently no it wasn't recently when we did Prim Vera they had
32:44
a blast they were out every day every night went to go see the City Sites all the stuff I just you know was chilling fair enough but I feel like that is a very important part of music is to kind of figure out things to be inspired by and things to embrace um I think based on the way that my upbringing was and the interest and hobbies that I have previously um Simplicity is important like just being able to have um a positive outlook on
33:11
life and just kind of see things for what they are yeah can we talk a little bit about that Simplicity as a um a tool like Simplicity rather than just being an product of the environment you're in but actually being of some service to you um I think it just depends on who you are you know I think sometimes but like even as a kid like you talked about your upbringing and stuff like just like when how did Simplicity become
33:34
part of your life where it actually was enabled you to be who you are now today and enable you to to find your creative voice I mean I honestly wouldn't even know I look at it from a standpoint of um access not from a place or you know um a social or you know class that has access to things so it's like life was all simple but I never felt bad about it or Worse about it so when you get you know one day I'm going to get rich and famous and I'm
34:06
going to get out of here and never come back like that's never been a thought of mine so I think I just never had that issue with kind of my upbringing or where I came from I kind of understood circumstances a little bit and um I think being understanding is important like for me personally so I was never like I never had a clash with my environment or my um my upbringing or the way that I was raised it was there was no there was no
34:29
I'll show you you know you know a lot of Ambitions wrapped up and I'll show you yeah no I just um I think at a certain point in time I just wanted um more and my more wasn't like crazy my more was like like a like a room or like a bed or some so like once I got to that point it was nothing to talk about it's kind of been on cruise control since then and I'm just making stuff if I feel like it you have a little more than that um because
34:59
you've made smart people decisions yeah exactly and put good people around you that build around you and not ask you to help them build more of them which is what a lot of management a lot of labels do they hire a client to boost their
35:12
roster right it's the opposite for you you've created a boutique industry around what you do and you've just got they happen to be really smart and really successful so it's been good so like getting out of the room and get
35:23
getting more on top of that and getting to a place where um I guess and maybe I'll need you to qualify this but so I'll start it but like the ter the term like security or Comfort or something that feels like it can't be taken away how did that feel when you realize like this journey I'm on or whatever it is making stuff creating stuff has got me to a place where I got some solid foundation here like yeah well I
35:54
think honestly I think in music you'll never have security so it's like like I don't you know you got like I'll tell you who off but you have um historic like musicians that have made you know hits in multiple genres
36:10
and they living in a um trailer you know downtown of L SC it can happen but isn't it so it's like they can always take it from you and I think about the end of a lot of these musicians careers like music is just such a grimy business that
36:21
like I think working in music and working in music and being black in music you can never be like I made it because you know it gets tricky it got bad for a lot of artists towards the end you know I don't want to say their names that kind of demean them in any way but we all know the stories it's like they had the world and then someone took it from them like that's a very real thing so but I think the security outside of
36:41
financials is the important part to me the the fact knowing that um the perspective that I had on life and other people has changed and even if I don't fully believe in it cuz I don't um fact believe in the change yeah but
36:55
the fact that you know that you know there is a different Viewpoint or a better Viewpoint in life is is solace in a sense so what does the change if you if your Viewpoint has changed but you don't necessarily believe in the change
37:06
then what is the purpose of it well to see how other people view right like my thing you know if I I we can sit here and you know you see how the World Views art you see how people how the World Views creatives I personally don't find any artist or any person alive to be more significant or better than anyone else with their contribution with any of those things but I know that the world feels that way so because I know
37:29
the world feels that way when someone tells you me their music my music affects them or changes something I tell them thank you I'm appreciative of it I don't have to believe that if they believe that I just know that there are other perspectives and I when I was younger I don't think we thought of other perspectives so that's what I mean about I don't necessarily have to believe in it to effectively work towards it because by making music and
37:51
doing shows and taking time to take pictures with people and speak to people you're you're effectively living in that world even though you might not believe in it because I've never asked anybody for a picture we had like you know what I mean I'm not that kind of person but I understand why people do those things so are you a fan yeah I'm for sure a fan of I mean I appreciate the things that people do so I I consider it that maybe not to the
38:14
level of um a lot of things but I'm not really like I'm not like a there's not like a favorite person or like I don't you know when you a kid and some like what's your favorite color your favorite number I never had answers to those stupid questions so it's like now that I'm older I like I wish I had answerers and I make some up but it's like I don't my my mind honestly just doesn't work like that exhausting having to constantly make
38:35
some up just so you can actually get through a conversation with people who expect those answers no man I done you know oh man so what inspired this album or what was this or what was that even though it might not be a natural thing that you think right you know the reference point that people are asking for so then you think about those things in that way and then you find the answer that'll suffice like you know we're not
38:53
in this alone like things get annoying and things get um hard to kind of digest like like I said we're not special to the point that like I'm going just be like oh yeah man that's not how my work whether that's the truth or not you have to have an answer because that answer kind of can convey to someone else how they should view your music it's what we talked about being in the studio how do you how do we view these things how do i digest these
39:14
things how can I utilize what you made to help me make something or get through my daylight those things are just as important as whatever the truth is so how do you feel how did you feel when you finished this album how how was there a feeling of of accomplishment did you feel changed or different or proud of it or just right across the Spectrum without putting any words in your mouth what was the very basic feeling of experience
39:35
when you finished this body of work and you knew it was done um you know completion I think as I get older I realize completion points I've never like ever felt like I finished the album besides um summertime 06 but then we
39:49
changed it um for like a double disc to like they told me they give me more money they didn't though but you know how that goes I was I was I was young needed that but um so I was like it end up being a double disc um so I kind of
40:02
didn't feel like that was completed I didn't feel like big fish or any the other ones were completed um Ramona kind of but not really um I feel like V stles needed like two three more songs um or you know song or two off but this I feel like it's pretty much wrapped up I took a song off this uh project actually I don't really do that much I've never really pump you do that if I can be granular I just didn't like it yeah it
40:24
wasn't done it just I didn't like it oh this is great and I just it was like no it's not um but you know learning how to make those decisions um so I felt like it was completed I was really appreciative with the people who worked on it and like kind of the strides that they took like how they learned more um the musicality on this is wonderful man the arrangements and the sounds and just these kind of like just just layers and
40:47
floating guitars that just kind of come in and just ride with you it's great man yeah it's like even like going to the mix and like yeah don't mix it right yeah yeah like I don't I don't want to beautiful flaws on this yeah and I think
40:58
I think that's like I was you know appreciative of being able to execute that cuz I'm just now at a point now to where people are like um okay you know when you younger it's like oh trust me do it this way do it that way and then
41:08
you know so you just kind of when you're in music and you don't know anything about it and the whole you know structure tells you um that they're doing you a favor then you become overtly grateful and it's like well I'm grateful I'm thankful for the opportunity so I'm just going to kind of listen but then as I got older I was like you know I don't need there's nothing that's going to come from that um I was just pulling up the track
41:30
listing just what we were talking there it really carries itself in a very kind of very thoughtful you know I won't use the dword but um thoughtful a very thoughtful way until it gets to it I'm going to this up because new zealanders can't speak French we're good at almost everything but yeah we can't speak we can't speak French uh ATU MH that's like the only that's maybe one of the only moments that and little homies
41:54
I feel like two of the only moments where it's it's like light on its feet if if that makes sense no I get what you're saying definitely I definitely get what you're saying um yeah I mean those moments are important um and it's funny because like contrast cuz perspective is everything um ATU and it's a song about music the radio song is a song about music um I love that song by the way thank you little homies is like um it's um it's it's lighter
42:25
production wi but it's like about you know what happens when you die so I got that but that's why that's why um context is so important because we all see things differently so the execution to me is never like topical
42:38
it's just more like what does the song sound like yeah and I and and I I'm I I'm probably going to spend my lifetime talking to you if we get a chance to talk again I hope we always do um trying to get inside that and and just marvel
42:49
at different ways how you just keep telling me the same answer which is like that's really not that deep but but I'm so interested in knowing like how how in a piece of music like little homies is going to get you to that place yeah I mean you know everybody has their um everybody has their Viewpoint and I think it's important to kind of stick to the Viewpoint that you're comfortable with cuz you know you're just you like
43:11
there's no reason to try to you know change the world man it's just they're just songs man I think you're doing it without even trying I hate to break it to you but every time you put a record out and fans listen to it it
43:21
becomes a part of our life it becomes part of our DNA and what I'm saying is that's enough you know it doesn't need to it doesn't need to go past that point you know for me at least you know I know everybody values things differently but
43:31
for me you know put it out people listen to it they like it or they don't and then if you get to do it the next time that's the gift that you get is the ability to do it the next time because most people don't get that that's true you know and congratulations on the show um another season no we'll see we're we're we're kind of figuring some things out right now so we'll see hope so I I really feel like um that's a really
43:55
important moment I think for anybody those kids in that room I know the subject matter in Long Beach was far more Stakes were far higher and far more real life than that but I think it's it's it's really important for kids to feel like they can ideate to a point where someone's going to help them create and then most importantly actually execute and I know that that was a real process for you and Corey and the team and I love the pivot
44:22
based on the interview I read recently where you said the meetings weren't really catching there was no fish on the hook here like no one yeah yeah so rather than just keep pounding through that door you you went right down another Corridor took another right another Corridor took a left double back around found it went up through the air conditioning unit landed back in and somehow then was like oh yeah come on in like you know
44:48
what I mean yeah but also also that's that a lot of that is arst ego you know because you know someone goes to say Community College and then they go to their local University then they go to NYU and they study film and then they kind of just engulf themselves in this world and they're an artist and they can't get something off the ground without a short or without previous work but since you know I make songs and
45:15
people know who I am I didn't just expect someone to just give me something especially when there's no um there's nothing beforehand that that would survice like even when we did the show and they're like oh oh I'm
45:27
I was writing the scripts and I had a lot of input a lot of things it wasn't viewed like that wasn't contracted like that it was you know a vanity place so to say because you know a lot of artists oh this is the this show or this is the
45:38
that show they don't really but you have to work and you have to work hard at it so it didn't really even bother me to have to go around because you know a lot of great directors who have saved they do amazing creative music videos you're not a you're still a first-time director so then you have to go do a sh and you have to do something Indie and go to a festival circuit and hopefully somebody better as well in the end ex it better
45:59
and I really appreciate that part of the process cuz like you learn how to do things as you go and I'm I'm I'm a process person so like I really I like that it worked out that way but it's important like you said to show people
46:10
that there is work that is attached to this level of you know success and this isn't even the top level of success and it's a lot of hard work so I think it's important to kind of share that with people and not make it look as glamorous
46:21
as we like to a lot of the times did you feel satisfied with the at the end of that that first round of experience from like the let's get past the whole kind of like the the groundwork you put in but the script writing producing your own show acting in your own show ultimately promoting it seeing it come to fruition it's very different experience than music some would say even harder even more even tougher way more conversations way more people
46:44
putting their hands on the it's more difficult it's more money at stake um more people more hands on it yeah and so how did you feel at the end of the experience it wasn't easy but I don't like easy things are kind of annoying but I mean making the things were easy like CU I feel like you either do it or you don't and I can stay within my perspective and find things out align with my perspective the hard parts are
47:04
like how do you step into this room and you know hear people say oh you know this doesn't translate with an audience basically meaning that black people don't make her like this kind of and then how do you showcase which which could be true from their perspective because you know certain things do or don't get green lit we have these conversations about people of color getting positions and women getting positions and having
47:26
the opportunity to tell their stories it's a real thing so from their standpoint no one wants to be the person who green likes the thing that gets them fired I 100% agree so the hard part is to convince people and kind of try to
47:37
Galvanize the people that are working on the project and get them to kind of believe in the thing that you're doing and I think at the end of it you know having a conversation I was like oh yeah we see what you we see it now but until
47:46
the show came out um the people were like um a lot of the people that were producing with us and working with us and that gave us our opportunities we like yeah I just don't get it it doesn't make sense yet I like oh well there are so many things that kind of live in this vein they just don't look like this and you have to understand and give it that Grace because yeah but not that your ego getting between that that comment and
48:04
the actual execution of this thing yeah exactly like and um even from a reference standpoint if you're reference standpoint like um a lot of the people that I was referencing with like kind of a lot of our shot listing or like kind of the way that it things were being written they had never translated even into youth culture let alone black youth culture let alone hip-hop culture so you examples of that I mean you're saying oh
48:27
have to do coverage we're not going to do coverage we're going to do Super Wise Rory Anderson um or we're going to go to like some you know 18 mm cowboy okay show me that on TV doesn't exist so you have to understand that what you're asking for is kind of crazy in the scheme of things you know what I mean and do you sometimes feel when you're watching it back and maybe you're watching it go out at the same time when
48:45
it comes out or whatever that maybe like it's like you're in the world's but in in the greatest in joke of all time because you're right unless you explain that to people a lot of people aren't going to recognize the influence or
48:54
inspiration behind those things and it must be kind of fun to go people aren't going to ever believe where I got the idea for that shot from well no honestly I don't I don't put it past anybody especially people that are into
49:03
those things I feel like some people some people for sure you know what I'm saying but it's like I think that's for those people I think um that making things that are kind of in their own world or is important to me know when I was a kid I didn't really know anything about music past like things that you heard on the radio or TV or like things that were kind of like no skateboard like no ston Thro type stuff so it's like there's so much
49:29
about music I did know but the things that I do did know and I did digest I was very aware of so we all have our own pockets in which we exist so you just try to hit as many of those pockets as comfortable for you and um you know go from there super funny isn't interesting how those kind of um those introductions that stuff that we get turned on to as a kid is we so dismissive of it at the time because it was just thrashy and
49:52
running around but it's so important like if you landed in on any other cultural or creative Touchstone area mood board it changes you changes you completely yeah 100% like you are the most successful Stones Throw intervie
50:06
influenced artist of the of the modern moment right now like like it's great yeah maybe no Tyler Tyler maybe yeah but I'm up there though five probably six but this is a generational thing mhm this is a generational thing this is a
50:21
group of artists who grew up in Los Angeles who are influenced by peanut butter wolf in a scene that cool that only a few people it's like what they say about it's like what briano said about the Velvet Underground right like there was like this many people in the room but all of them went on to do great things mhm that's cool that's success exactly I think you know success you you are able to measure it and um I think
50:46
you know we should say that more we should and we should honor the fact that I mean I feel so grateful that I'm still able to be a part of this broader conversation play music talk about it get stuck into conversations about it at a time when you and your friends from that from that era are all in your own right doing Legacy work like amazing creative do you ever allow yourself the opportunity to just sit in that observation long enough to even
51:20
just appreciate that somehow through all of that you and a group of people of the same age are doing cool and most of the time people get out of your way yeah um definitely um but I think for me just cuz my background is just so much different than theirs um this is you know impossible so I I do appreciate it and the way in which it changed you know my life is very much so life or death so you can't ignore those things [Music]