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[MUSIC] Aisha, welcome to Stanford GSB.
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>> Thank you for having me.
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I can't believe I'm sitting here.
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I'm not sure what you think you're all going to be hearing, but I'll try my best.
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>> [LAUGH] >> [LAUGH] >> Our view from the top theme this year is Redefining Tomorrow.
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And we could not think of a more fitting guest than the CEO of Zooks, a company that's re-imagining transportation, how we move in this world and so thank you for being here >> My pleasure, thank you for having me.
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I'm blessed and really privileged to be working in this space.
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>> We have a lot to get to today, so let's dive in.
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I want to start at the very beginning.
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You have a really unique upbringing.
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You grew up both in Senegal and in France and started traveling back and forth between the two from a very young age.
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How did these diverse experiences influence you? >> Well, several things.
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First of all, there is an element of luck.
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I really thank my parents, my dad for being in the telecommunication space and seeing, from the very beginning, what technology could do.
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Because believe it or not, those companies back then were laying cable under the ocean and connecting the world.
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And then, but also seeing differences, you're in Paris and you see what's possible.
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And then you're in Senegal and you see what's less possible back then at least.
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And technology played a major part in that.
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And then my mom, for reminding me that even though I like to tinker with things, I like math, I love philosophy.
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There's a reason some of the best or most known philosophers and mathematicians, or at least that's my story, and I'm sticking to it.
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>> [LAUGH] >> She reminded me it's all about people.
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The technology is in service of people, and it's also developed by people.
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So you also need to learn about people and what makes them tick, and how do you get things done, and how do you seek to understand?
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Now [LAUGH] the interesting thing with my dad is from a very young age, he pushed me towards them and he wanted me to be an engineer, which I became.
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>> [LAUGH] >> But I think from a social standpoint, he had different expectations.
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He wanted me to essentially compartmentalized, like being super sort of critical in my thinking and my reasoning, but except when it comes to the social aspect of things, right?
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Sit in with these guys and tell you what to do and you'd be a good girl.
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And that's not what ended up happening.
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[LAUGH] What ended up happening is that it also shapes just how you live your life, in general.
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And around right after the baccalaureate, we started having a falling out a little bit because he wanted that little girl that he wanted and she was gone.
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And she saw everything through the lens of engineering and technology, which is, in a way, how I ended up in the US.
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To get away, but in a loving way, from him and that took a little bit of negotiation, but we finally got there.
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Except that I didn't realize school in the US was so expensive, so you kind of need to agree with him on some things. >> Yeah.
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[LAUGH] >> [LAUGH] And one of the things we agreed upon was that I would go to DC.
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Because he felt that what he failed at doing while I was in France, he was going to correct by me being in DC and around.
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The World Bank and IMF are in DC and he had a lot of friends and he felt that they would keep me in line, basically.
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But it didn't quite work out because I met this American boy.
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>> [LAUGH] >> And I ended up getting married and we're still married, and we have two kids together.
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>> That is beautiful, and then the rest is history.
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>> And the rest is history.
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He passed away during COVID, actually, but we did make peace.
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I mean, he's proud of me.
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I know he's up there smiling at this point.
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>> Yeah, I know he is very proud of you and I know he was very influential in that decision to moving over to George Washington University and studying computer engineering there.
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And after studying computer engineering, you then started your career as a full time engineer.
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First in Austin, Texas, and then later, taking several roles in the Bay Area, and then Intel.
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Would it be okay if we go there? >> Of course, let's go.
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>> [LAUGH] >> So I know once you got to Intel, you very quickly rose the ranks of management up to chief strategy officer, that's a lot.
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I want to learn, what did you learn about yourself and about leadership in that time?
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>> Couple of things, first of all, the good jobs are already taken.
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Don't go for the good jobs, they are not available.
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And so I entered Intel and Intel was doing WiMAX.
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By that time, I had sort of built my career around wireless.
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For us wireless technologists, the fact that we're all sitting here and there's an unimaginable number of bits that are moving around as we speak and you're all getting your right data, your right call, your right messages.
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I believe me, some 20 years ago, we were dreaming of this moment but we weren't sure we were going to be able to make it happen.
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And so I had already tasted what I call transformation, what I call working on technology that directly affects hundreds of millions and billions of people.
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So I go into Intel because I happen to live in Portland, Oregon.
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Back then, Intel was looking at doing stuff in the wireless space via WiMAX, which is why I was hired.
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But when I went in, I was like, hmm, I don't think this is going to work.
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>> [LAUGH] >> But it's hard, right?
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You enter a corporation, I mean, there are brilliant people around you.
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And you're like, it's not possible that they, I mean, something's not right here. >> Yeah.
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>> And so how I rose through management, and this is connecting to don't take the good jobs, was I started asking questions about what exactly are we doing and why are we doing it?
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Because I really have some concerns about this and whether it can work.
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And that basically led to me getting in front of Shawn Maloney, Dadi Permuter, basically the top of Intel, saying, here you're asking questions.
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I'm like, yeah, I'm asking questions.
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Now, you also don't go in there and say, well, I think your technology is bad and you're confused.
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That doesn't work very well, right?
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And so I started saying, look, I think the technology can work, but from an ecosystem standpoint and relative to 3GPP, it's a really tough hill to climb.
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So let's spark the technology and tell me what you're trying to do and why.
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Because then, we can maybe back up the boats and talk about, is there a different, more effective way to accomplish that goal?
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So asking a lot of questions and not shying away from what I call the problematic areas.
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Knowing myself well, I am not a steady state person.
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If you have a great business that's running well and doing well, keep it as far away from me, as you can.
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>> [LAUGH] >> I'll mess with it. I like to tinker.
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I like to go on the edges. I like to transform.
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I like to understand why. I like to dream.
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And so that's basically what happened.
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Then, I had to rely on my mom's advice, which is, if you're asking questions and you're making people uncomfortable, find a way to make them comfortable.
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And then Daddy was like, yeah, you're talking good game and you're making a lot of sense, but can you actually execute? I said, I think so.
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And he said, well, we have an issue with with WiFi.
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Would you consider him and Rabid Malema?
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And would you consider [LAUGH] taking on that team?
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Maybe yes, well, the team is in Israel and I'm four months pregnant, right?
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And I'm like Israel and I will never forget rather than that I'm it goes.
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Yeah, we deliver babies in Israel. That's not a problem. >> What?
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[LAUGH] >> And so, I ended up moving to Israel.
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And that's where I really was in a totally different environment with a brand new team who was like, why are you here?
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Couldn't they find somebody else?
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But I was like, well, I'm here, because something's wrong.
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And I'm not doing Aliyah.
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So, meaning, I'm not going to live in Israel the whole my whole life.
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And so, tell me what's wrong, we fix it and I'm out of your hair.
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And that's where I really I had to learn to lead people, I had to learn success, I had to learn failure.
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And I'm naming both, because how you handle both is very different.
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With success it's very important to remember that you don't have a God given right to it.
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It's important to remain humble, it's important to continue pushing yourself.
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And with failure it's important to be like, okay, I didn't get here by mistake.
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So, what exactly happened? Was it the wrong timing?
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Was it the wrong assumption? Did I make a mistake?
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Both of the trigger so that next time you're in the same situation you can recognize it and do something about it.
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But yeah, that was basically the journey.
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>> Yeah, it sounds there was a lot of self-awareness that was involved as you thought about both your career progression.
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And also managing and coaching others.
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>> Well, I said you should be humble, so I should be humble too.
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It's a journey of discovery around self-awareness.
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It wasn't always easy and I was super, super lucky.
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One of the things that Intel did was.
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It's very difficult for me to be several personalities. That's a lot of energy.
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I just want to be the same person all the time.
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because, otherwise it's hard to remember the facial expression. What do I say to whom? I'm too lazy for that. And so, Intel was like.
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Well, you're like you have a lot of potential, you're doing well.
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We're even sending you out there, but you need a little bit of polish. I'm like, lovely.
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We're going to get you a coach, okay? So, I was like, gosh.
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So, the first few coaches they sent me.
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The good news is they let you interview the coach to see if there's a connection.
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And the first few, well, it didn't go very well.
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because, they start with, what's your five-year plan?
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I actually don't have one.
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If I'm alive and happy, that's a good start.
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Well, why aren't you saying you want to be a CEO?
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I'm not saying I want or don't want.
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That's not what I'm focused on. So, and I felt like. What about you learn me?
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And then we go from there.
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So, eventually, somebody in HR who knew Marshall Goldsmith, said.
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I think he would be the right coach for you. I googled him.
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I was like, he's got bigger fish to fry than me.
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But we met, and fell in love with each other.
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And he pushes me on the journey of self discovery. >> In what way?
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What does that look like?
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>> So, I had a very difficult decision to make, at least in my head. Some years ago.
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I was hesitating between staying at Intel and going to do something else.
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It was a very difficult time.
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A lot was going on and I was really having trouble making that decision.
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I was driving my husband crazy.
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It was as probably driving Intel crazy.
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And so, Marshall we were talking about it during the pros and cons.
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And I'm whining and making it sound all about, he calls it, don't worry about me, me, me, me, me. And, so he calls me up.
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[LAUGH] and he's like, do you have a big mirror at your house?
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Yeah, actually I'm standing in front of one.
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He's like, go in front of a mirror.
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So, I go in front of the mirror.
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He's like, repeat after me? Yes, life is good.
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I said yes, life is good.
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In the grand scheme of things, I'm lucky.
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In the grand scheme of things, I'm lucky.
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There are no bad choices here.
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There are no bad choices here.
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Make a choice, stick with it and move.
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Make a choice, stick with it and move.
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Okay, let me know when you've done that and we can talk about the choice you've made and how do we make that work? That's sort of like a.
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Or he makes me sometimes I'm like, so get out of your own head. Move on.
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>> Yeah >> So, he's very loving, very tough.
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That he does not allow you to hide from yourself.
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>> Well, at the GSB we actually placed a lot of value on executive coaching.
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Some of us have coaches others are taught to coach.
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What advice as you think about the role executive coaching has played in your life what advice do you have for us as GSB students as we think about how it could play in our development?
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>> Look, my assumption is that from a probability and statistics standpoint, you're all going to be successful.
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And I'm please asking you to trust that and to remember that.
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Stop panicking about it and driving yourself crazy about it.
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Put one foot in front of the other and go do.
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My biggest advice is, because you're going to be successful, it gets lonely.
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It gets confusing, it gets scary.
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There's a little Aisha, at night she talks to you.
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And sometimes she talks to me and sometimes she's not easy to deal with.
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And so, find somebody who you can have intimacy with.
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Find somebody who, when they talk to you.
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Whether you agree or disagree is not even the issue. You will hear. You will listen.
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Find somebody who you feel comfortable talking about the worst part of yourself with.
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Because, that intimacy is really what is going to help you and the coach.
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Go after what matters to you.
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Otherwise, you're just getting a consultant.
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And that's not really going to lead to achieving the greatest potential possible.
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>> And I know Marshall is someone who continues to work with you today.
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He has been very powerful.
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Coming along your career journey and so I actually want to transition and talk about your next move, which was Zoox.
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So, as you were leaving Intel, you had options.
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There were several companies showing interest in you.
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And you also had very specific criteria for what you wanted out of your next role. So tell us, why is it?
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>> So, first, I have to go back to that other moment.
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I disappointed a lot of people in making the decision that I made.
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And guilt and regret is something you need to learn to handle. And I it stayed with me.
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Now, I made other people also very happy to be fair.
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And I sort of had a one on one with myself.
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I said, okay, what just happened here?
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And what conclusions do we draw?
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And one conclusion that I basically I was like I don't think I'm going to go to another big company.
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At the end of the day they are about all the same.
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They have the script, there's a script.
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There are players, agendas.
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It's so, it's like I don't want to do that anymore.
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And then, that led to, well then what do I want to do?
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And, one of my good friend in the executive recruiting space said, well have you written it down?
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And then I said, Marshall, they're asking me.
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He's like, yeah, I think that's a good idea.
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because, let's not go through that drama again. >> Yeah. >> I said, okay, fair.
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And so, first thing is I wanted to stay in the Bay Area.
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Because, at that point I had moved my kids a lot.
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And it took me a while to understand that even when you're moving neighborhoods, your kids count that as a move.
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If the soccer team changes or if the France change. That's a move to them.
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And they had tabulated all the moves and they were done.
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And they were teenagers and I owed them that. That was thing one.
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I think to, I did not want to go to the public sector or to a public company because I can't keep my mouth shut.
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>> [LAUGH] >> And so, I knew if I went to public company, it's back to investor calls and go talk to this press and go to this big event and buy a lot of expensive outfits for the events.
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I was just like I want these next four to six years for my kids to be about them and I just wanted that privacy and that intimacy.
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Then I was, okay, if I'm going to a private company, I am not a founder, but I'm also not a classic corporate executive I'm that in between.
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And so, I was, I don't want to go to a private company where the founders are being told they need somebody like me, I want to go to a private company where the founders have decided that they want somebody like me.
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Then I want it to be impactful technology, nothing against this app or this thing, but that's just not, I wanted to do something that was as big or as fulfilling as what I tasted during the wireless journey.
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I wanted it to be really societal and transformative. >> Mm-hm.
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>> And then I wanted to make sure that when it happened, I had a work-love feeling, like an excitement and truth be told, when I heard about Zoox, >> [LAUGH] >> My first reaction was, yeah, but no, [LAUGH], >> [LAUGH] >> Sounds complicated. >> Why is that?
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>> Well, first of all, these days when they tell you about a company, you go do some research and there were some interesting things.
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There were some interesting things, one co-founder wasn't there anymore and so, that only happens when things are complicated, let's put it that way.
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The second thing was I was this is going to take a lot of time and capital and then the third thing was I wasn't sure that there's a lot of tech for tech here.
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There's a lot of chasing the valuation and chasing the headlines and hoping you're going to be the next, the few names.
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And I wanted to do something really meaningful, and I didn't know for sure if that company was embarking on that complicated, that expensive and that critical of a technology and product.
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I wanted to make people make sure people were serious about it and I didn't know becauseI had not met the people.
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And so again, back to Martial, he was, well, it takes all the boxes, it's just there are some things you're not sure about, why don't we go talk to them?
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So, talk to a few board members, and then met Jesse Levinson.
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And I met him, actually, we walked around Zoox that day, so I got to see the energy and people were working on the vehicle and everything.
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And within about 15, 20 minutes, I was like wow, I got the feeling and the tingle, and I was, let's go, let's do this.
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>> Yeah, well you talked a little bit about some of the dynamics there with the co-founders, I want to touch on that a little bit more.
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Joining Zoox as the first CEO after a co-founder, you did navigate what many would consider a challenging transition.
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For GSB students in the audience who may step into leadership roles at existing companies, how did you establish your place and set expectations at Zoox?
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>> What first, in my mind, you do that before you join the company.
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And so, once I started thinking, yeah, Zoox, is it probably, I spent a lot of time with Jesse.
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We had dinner, lunch, we talked, I must have sent him I don't know, hundreds of, well, maybe tons of emails, anytime I had a question we texted, and I really wanted to understand what this person was made of.
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What their value system is, why they were in it, why they thought that I was a fit but in their own words, but I also wanted to understand what's important to them and could I bring that to the table for them?
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And so, we spent a lot of time, and I was like, outside of my husband and kids, this is the person I'm going to spend the most time with. >> Yeah.
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>> And so, we talked about life, we talked about technology, we talked about the challenges ahead.
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And we talked about also, okay, we're dating right now, work dating.
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>> [LAUGH] >> But what happens when we don't agree?
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What happens when we annoy each other, and so, we covered a lot of ground and I don't know, it made a lot of sense.
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So, my first piece of advice is, only take the role if you're really interested in it, startups are hard, the idea is rarely the problem.
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Execution is sometimes the problem, determination, you just literally have to have irrational belief and be determined that it's going to work out.
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And when it's tough you find a way, you make a way, you back up the boat, you reassess, you pivot and so, if you don't have that irrational belief and pull, don't do it.
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But if you do, now in the conversation, understand what type of founder you're dealing with, ask some of these questions that I've just gone through and ask yourself very, very honestly, can you provide that and will you have the generosity to, does that make sense? >> That makes sense.
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>> And if you do that, then you can do anything.
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If anything, now, Jesse and I have the opposite problem, which is people are you guys agree all the time, or it's intimidating because it's impossible to convince you of, once the two of you start going, and I'm yeah, but that wasn't built overnight.
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That was built over a certain period of time and working together, having generosity because look at it from my standpoint, it is probably not wise to walk into Zoox and alienate the person who knows the most about it because they are pouting over in the corner because some lady showed up and she's like, hi, I'm the boss now.
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>> [LAUGH] >> That doesn't work, >> Right.
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>> You have to create that partnership, you have to create that give and get and we have codes like, if he says I don't feel strongly or if one of us says I don't feel strongly, why pick a fight, just pick one way or the other.
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Or if one says I feel strongly we talk about it, there are times I think we've talked for hours and hours and I think genuinely, we've annoyed each other maybe a couple of times in five years.
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>> Mm-hm, wow, that's pretty impressive, just a couple of times in five years. >> Couple of times.
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>> Well, I know you talked about determination, and that is a theme that definitely came up after you spent those first few months really establishing that partnership.
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In your first year of CEO, you helped sell the company to Amazon for 1.
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3 billion dollars, how did you approach this major deal and why was Amazon the right fit for Zoox?
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>> So, first of all, I'm neither confirming nor denying 1. 3 billion dollars. >> Okay, [LAUGH] noted.
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>> Just so were clear, noted, good, thank you.
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>> [LAUGH] >> Second, there were a bunch of us, I played a role, but others did to, look, at Zoox, I don't want to turn this into a marketing pitch because it isn't, we're in love with what we do. >> Yeah.
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>> We are committed to what we do, we are committed to each other in getting it done, it's one of these products where it's not about which team got an A, it's about collectively making sure that no teams get an F.
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Because it's a vertically integrated, safety critical product, where you're always as good as your last release.
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It's also from the ground up so you have a diversity of skills background.
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One day you're talking to somebody about brakes and powertrain and battery.
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And the next day you're talking to somebody about perception, and planning, and control, and AI, and start counting how many times I say AI.
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>> [LAUGH] >> I'll try to keep it low.
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And so at the end of the day, we're just in love with what we do.
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So we're committed to getting to market.
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We don't want to be a demo, we really dream of this world.
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And I might not be there at that time, but this is a legacy role where we dream of this day when a service that people already like today, we will provide it in a better way for the customer, for society, for cities.
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We dream of that day where it's just going to be ubiquitous, where the term Muber, mommy Uber, will no longer exist, okay?
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So now, in doing that it also takes a lot of capital.
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It's safety critical, so schedules are very, but they're not very deterministic.
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Because the trigger to lounge or to do anything is rooted on not just the functionality, but on the safety case and proving it out.
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And so at the end of the day, when we looked at all this we said it'd be good to have a great partner with us.
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It'd be good to focus just on doing that as opposed to always having this pressure of, you know, I call it like investors don't pay for plumbing.
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No, they don't pay for making sure you have the right processes, the right methodologies.
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They only pay for outputs.
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And if you're in a situation where you have to think up on a yearly basis, big amounts of money, yet you're building something that really builds on each other, there can be a conflict.
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And we could see that some of our fellow travelers had great parents, and we're like, well, why not us?
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And then Amazon, Amazon, it's a great company.
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It's patient, it's innovative, they obviously, from a growth standpoint, were an interesting bet, I think that's what Andy called us publicly.
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And it's also obvious that once we're successful, the technology we're bringing to bear might be useful in other areas.
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And so it's been a great, great, great, great partnership.
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It's been three years now, I would give it a 8.
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5, 9 out of 10 which coming out of Aicha Evans' mouth, that's pretty good >> It's pretty good >> Yeah, well, I mean, there's always a tax, right?
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I mean, if anybody sells you that there's a perfect journey where everybody's perfect and the plan is perfect, please don't go there.
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Or go there and change it. One of the two.
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And so that's how we made the decision.
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And it was during the pandemic, and so there was a lot of clarity during the pandemic. >> Right. >> Yes.
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>> Okay, I want to level set a little bit for the for the audience.
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So Zoox at the time was about fewer than 1,000 people. Amazon in total has 1. 5 million or so.
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Has the acquisition changed the culture at Zoox?
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And are there ways that you've had to adapt as a leader under the new partnership?
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>> No, what I respect and love about Amazon is that it's a very direct and consequential culture.
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And they're like, look, we are buying this because we like the technology and the approach.
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You guys are the experts, and so we're going to let you do your thing.
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Now we're going to agree on governance, we're going to agree on sort of your ten-year plan, and your execution, and your markers.
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But they don't really, they have lots of things to do.
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They don't really come in, they ask good questions, so no, it hasn't changed the culture at all.
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We had actually a little bit of a, I'm very big on culture, again, safety critical, you have to have a great culture, where anybody can say, hey, there's a problem here.
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And so one of the things we had to do was more internal to Zoox. Hey, hang on a second.
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We're keeping our mentality, our mindset, our focus.
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We're not like, we just inherited some rich parents.
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We had to make sure that we made a collective pact with each other.
28:44
That we were going to be very disciplined, continue as if we were private, and fight for rigor and for discipline.
28:55
And so from that standpoint, there was a change, but it wasn't really a change, it was more like, let's continue the way we are.
29:02
Then as a leader, well, I have to dust off my Intel leadership skills, right?
29:08
>> [LAUGH] >> But that's okay, it's been great.
29:13
Amazon is, again, very consequential, so I didn't have to do, I mean, I think it's good that I knew both worlds, because I'm a good bridge between both worlds.
29:23
But in general there wasn't anything major, I have to go to Seattle more, okay.
29:27
>> Okay, yeah, >> This SFO, >> Okay, [LAUGH] well, I want to transition and talk a little bit, transition from culture and the acquisition and talk a little bit more about the industry more broadly.
29:36
So Zoox is still a relatively new company, where does it fit in the autonomous vehicle landscape and what makes it different?
29:44
>> So well new, we're nine years old. >> Relatively.
29:48
>> Relatively, I see it, okay. I'll take it then. We had a big year.
29:55
For those who are not familiar, it's not a car, it's a big robot.
30:01
It's really a computer on wheels.
30:03
And i it looks a little bit like a little moving living room in terms of the carriage sitting, in terms of sliding doors to get in.
30:14
It's really optimized around riders.
30:15
And so building that, testing it, and then getting it on public roads was a big deal for us this year.
30:25
That was one of our big, big goals.
30:27
And if you move around or come visit us, you see it moving around.
30:33
Some days it's early morning, I'm getting to work and I'm thinking about, okay, the day, what do I need to think about and whatever, so I'm not really thinking about the vehicle or the robots or the robo taxi.
30:44
And I look up and see it whizz by me, and I'm like, she's so cute.
30:49
>> [LAUGH] It's very cute. >> By design. >> Yeah.
30:54
>> Because we want you to feel an attraction as a customer.
30:58
We want you to be transported by this vehicle.
31:01
We want you to think do I drive, no I'm going to take a Zoox. >> Yeah.
31:04
>> And so relative to the industry, there are a few of us.
31:09
It's a small circle, we talk to each other, we understand each other.
31:14
We have different approaches, obviously for us, we started by thinking, what is the best way to deliver the best experience or at least a better experience than people have today getting in a stranger's car, we all do it. But that's different.
31:32
And we designed the vehicle and its experience relative to that.
31:37
Then we said, okay, AI is going to do the driving via sensors and compute.
31:42
What is needed, how do you architect it?
31:45
And we said it needs to be safe on all vectors.
31:48
In how it drives, in terms of the passenger, in terms of the safety ratings, in terms of the crash performance, in terms of all these elements.
31:56
So we're vertically integrated and optimized.
31:59
A lot of people think, my gosh, I'm doing the app and they're doing the service and And they are doing the vehicle or the robot and they are doing the AI stack.
32:06
It's not we're doing everything, we are at the intersection of everything that matters and we take that and apply it to that.
32:14
Now we have fellow travelers, again, and some are doing very well.
32:20
Some are experiencing challenges right now, but what we're committed to is that this is going to happen.
32:26
It will take a little bit more time probably than people would like, but it's always like that with a big disruptive technology.
32:34
>> Autonomous vehicles have been a topic of conversation for many years, but they're still not as common as we'd like on our roads.
32:41
Help us understand why that is and what some of the major obstacles are?
32:45
>> So how many of you have heard of the, there are 43,000 fatalities in the US due to car crashes?
32:55
Yeah, so I would say a good 75%.
32:59
How many of you have also heard, that collectively in the United States, we human drivers drive 100 million miles per single fatality?
33:11
>> [LAUGH] >> Yeah, don't worry, you'll get your A.
33:15
We know you did your research. >> Right [LAUGH].
33:17
>> And therein lies the problem.
33:20
The part about the 43,000, meaning respecting the rules, not being wrong, not being sleepy, not being distracted.
33:28
That part computers and AI, they're just good at that.
33:33
The part about 100 million miles, and you think about it for those of you who have engineering backgrounds, right?
33:39
You cannot test through 100 million miles, right?
33:42
You have to have a quantifiable safety case based and rooted in math, in probability and statistics, in fall trees, the system engineering discipline of aviation, and you're only as good as your last software release.
33:56
Second of all, there are so many, scenarios and the tail end of it.
34:03
So yes, we use simulation, but there's always potentially some scenario.
34:07
It's more important to know not just what you know how to handle, but do you know what you don't know how to handle and how you would handle it?
34:20
And that is what makes it extremely hard.
34:23
And second element is, yes, we probably, over time, will have more regulation.
34:30
I mean, there's a reason FAA exists, right?
34:33
We all get on planes because in the FAA we trust at the end of the day.
34:38
But at the end of the day, when you look at trust of consumers.
34:43
Consumers are not going to adopt this as a mode of transportation if they don't trust the safety.
34:51
And not just because the company said so but because there are other environmental elements that almost implicitly say it is so, and that's why it's hard.
35:03
>> I want to talk about safety in more detail.
35:05
As you know Cruise, one of Zoox's competitors has recently faced significant safety issues which has led to the suspension of their operations and a recall on their vehicles.
35:15
In light of these industry challenges, how is Zoox really working to ensure the safety and reliability of its own autonomous vehicles?
35:22
>> So I hope you'll respect that, I won't comment on Cruise. I wish them the best.
35:28
It's a very small circle.
35:30
We all know each other or somebody who knows each other.
35:33
And as they publicly stated, I am sure they are internally in there figuring things out and preparing to reset and we wish them the absolute best.
35:41
Most of the time, I call them again, fellow travelers.
35:45
As far as safety at Zook, it's foundational and it's in everything we do.
35:49
A lot of people, we had actually, maybe about a year ago, a company come in and who are they all sort of looking at our safety.
35:58
And they asked me, how come you don't have, what do they call it neck to choke or whatever the expression throat to choke or whatever, for safety?
36:08
I'm like, I don't want that.
36:09
I don't want safety to be in the hands of a single person.
36:13
I want safety to be in the hands of all of us.
36:17
I want people to have a multitude of channels, whatever is available to them, whatever is most comfortable to them, so that they can report or discuss or ask questions about safety.
36:29
Second, at Zoox, we will not put a robot on the road.
36:36
Unless our very rigorous, strictly quantified and quantifiable safety case gives us the metric via road driving, via simulation, via analysis, via fault-free, both, by the way, what I call direct simulation, but also scenario-based and adversarial simulation.
36:59
And so we're very rigorous around that.
37:01
And we have five different executives that have to sign off before Jesse and I even sign off.
37:10
And any single one of those say no go, we don't go.
37:15
Then there is what I call the sort of more subtle stuff.
37:20
If you tell people, safety's really important, report everything.
37:23
And the first time somebody reports something that's going to delay your milestone, you're like [NOISE].
37:27
Do you think people will report?
37:29
No, they won't, that's not the way people are wired.
37:32
And so we try and be very open around that.
37:35
And we encourage and, we're on public roads.
37:39
Sometimes a couple of things have happened where we're like, hey, somebody said we need to pause and analyze what happened, replay simulation, look at the scenario, look at the code, look at the results.
37:51
And so that's really, it permeates through everything we do.
37:54
Now, in addition, there is all of the safety, because, again, we think about the rider, we think about the vehicle or the robot.
38:01
Our airbag system, so we have over 100 safety innovations that are specifically for this robo-taxi because we know what's at stake.
38:11
The amount of redundancy we've thought about.
38:15
A lot of people say, you have a lot of sensors. Yeah, we do. >> Yeah.
38:18
>> Because we want to give ourselves all the chances on perceiving the environment around us and the interactions, and also having redundancy around that but also being fail operational and fail safe.
38:30
And so hopefully, I'm giving you a glimpse, it's really at the foundation of everything we do.
38:34
>> Yeah, I can tell and and I told you earlier this week, I actually had the opportunity to sit in a robo-taxi and I felt quite safe if I may say so myself- >> Safe like a little cocoon? >> Yes, just snug. >> Right on. >> Yeah.
38:47
>> [LAUGH] >> Well, I want to transition and talk a little bit about the future.
38:51
One of the big concerns with the autonomous vehicle industry is job security.
38:56
So as you know, nearly 5 million people drive for Uber, Lyft, DoorDash, some other delivery service, nonetheless Amazon drivers.
39:07
How is Zoox thinking about the potential impacts on society as it relates to job displacement?
39:13
>> Okay, so we take it again back to telecommunication, right?
39:19
I hope some of you know that it wasn't that long ago that to make a phone call, there needed to be a human.
39:25
That plugged in some things, and then another human received something.
39:29
And then finally, quick, you could talk, right?
39:32
And then lots of generations of that.
39:36
So here we are today, there is no human in all of your communication, correct?
39:42
Okay, good, now, I think there will be a transition. >> Okay.
39:45
>> I'm not going to shy away from that.
39:47
Then when you study history, every time there's been a big disruption like this, there's a period of transition.
39:54
But on the other side of that transition is also a new ecosystem where new jobs are created and where societies move up.
40:02
We expect that to happen Here too.
40:05
This robot, believe it or not, does not know how to charge itself, does not know how to clean itself, does not know how to do a lot of things that it will need humans to help basically accomplish those things.
40:22
There will also be an ecosystem.
40:24
You can imagine when you look, we take a lot of things for granted relative to the automobile ecosystem today, gas stations, lots of different things, all that will also happen.
40:37
So I want to be honest, there will be a transition.
40:39
[COUGH] But in the end, we think that there will be benefits and new jobs will be created.
40:45
And the thing with autonomous vehicles and the industry at large is the transitions actually is much slower than everybody anticipated.
40:54
And so our hope and our wish is that that transition also is proportional and goes at the same time, and then flips at some points.
41:03
>> Okay, great, well, I have so many more questions for you.
41:05
But I want to save time for our audience to- >> You do?
41:07
>> Ask questions as well.
41:09
Before I do, I have one final question from me, which is something we're asking all of our speakers in line with our theme.
41:16
Aicha, as the CEO of Zoox, if there's one change that you could make to redefine tomorrow, what would it be?
41:26
It's not realistic, but it's still, you asked if. >> Yes.
41:33
>> I wish we could take a pause and clean up the Internet before we embark on this wave of AI we're on that's irreversible.
41:46
I know that's probably not possible, or maybe it is, I don't know.
41:50
But I wish we could do just a quick sweep and clean up.
41:54
>> [LAUGH] >> Before we let things loose. >> Interesting.
41:59
What are some of your concerns?
42:03
>> Because I don't want to get in trouble, I will use a different transition.
42:07
When we went from sort of the physical analog world to the digital world, right, you used to have to go to the library and read books and all.
42:19
The beginning of the data set was a lot cleaner.
42:24
The megaphones were a lot smaller.
42:27
And right now we've, in that transition, plus with other technologies that have come in, we have a lot of clutter out there that is borderline dangerous.
42:41
And again, I'm not talking about censure here.
42:43
I'm for all opinions and views.
42:47
We were talking in the Green Room about Plato and Socrates.
42:50
They are the foundation for me.
42:52
When I sometimes get confused, I reread The Republic just to kind of ground me.
42:57
But we have a lot of mess out there that to the uneducated or to the unaware, there's a potential for trouble.
43:06
And unfortunately, we're not going to clean it up, but at some point, we will have to pause in some way or form and clean it up again.
43:16
Because over our history as a human species, eventually, at inflection points, we do do the right thing, which is why we've survived this long.
43:27
But I wish we could just pause just couple of weeks, clean some things up >> Well, thank you for that answer.
43:34
We'll now open it up to questions for our audience >> I just wanted to pick your brains on autonomous vehicles.
43:40
Do you think this is a solution to a US problem, or do you see this also transferring to Europe where cities are much more connected with public transportation?
43:50
Or to Africa and emerging markets where the roads look very different than the US, and in terms of also its affordability there?
43:58
>> I mean, of course, I'm going to say I don't think that it's a solution in search of a problem because I value my time, so I'm sure you expected that.
44:08
And so, look, I think that it depends on where you are.
44:14
The one thing I know is that in general, it's a very inefficient system today.
44:22
It's not a very connected system today, I mean transportation, and it hasn't really seen a revolution or transformation for a while.
44:32
And at scale, meaning as more people come up societal levels in terms of buying power, there just aren't enough roads, we're going to fry this planet, all of the things that you hear.
44:46
So I think that it's inevitable, but it will look different in different places.
44:50
And so Americans love their cars.
44:54
So if we get to a point of a few decades, no, it's part of the fabric of this country, let's face it.
45:00
So if we get to a certain point of in the next few decades where we go from 2. x cars to 1. x car, that's good.
45:09
More good things will happen from that.
45:11
Whereas countries like China, China is already very organized.
45:17
A lot of people don't realize, for example, in Beijing, you have rings, and your drivers license doesn't allow you necessarily to go through all rings.
45:25
So you can see that there's already thinking around, how do you tier transportation?
45:29
In Africa, well, there's opportunity for actually greenfield, for autonomous-only lanes.
45:37
So I think that it will look different in different places, but in all cases, it will connect with the current transportation system and be one of the modalities.
45:49
It's just here, it'll be more like freeform, whereas in some countries it will be greenfield, whereas in some countries it will be mandated. >> Hi Aicha, thank you. My name is Rob.
46:00
First, that shirt is amazing.
46:03
>> [LAUGH] >> I just have to say that. It's very incredible. >> Thank you.
46:05
>> Yes, I'm a first year in the School of Business and Education, and you mentioned that with the wave of digitization and automation, that there will be new jobs created.
46:16
But I'm curious your thoughts on job dislocation as that transition is happening, and what role does Zoox or any other companies play in forwarding drivers who lose their jobs and reskilling into more different opportunities in that regard?
46:32
>> Yeah, so thank you, and thank you for that compliment. I much appreciate it.
46:37
[LAUGH] I don't look like this every day.
46:40
Normally, it's a hoodie and jeans and boots.
46:41
>> [LAUGH] >> So look, we're already creating a lot of jobs.
46:47
I mean Zoox, we have all kinds of jobs.
46:51
I mean, like I said, one day you're talking to the AI guru, the other day you're talking to, okay, what's happening with the brake systems and what have you.
46:59
We also do a lot of testing, L3, we call it Level 3 testing.
47:04
But basically, we're driving in autonomy, but there's a safety driver behind the wheel.
47:09
We, through some agencies, we bring that in a lot.
47:14
We have also all of the support system now that we're starting to head towards commercialization.
47:23
We have to have depots, we have to have teleguidance systems.
47:27
And so we consider it our responsibility, those are not jobs that necessarily exist today per se as a clear profile, but we have training, we have sort of our own internal certification.
47:41
So we we are already doing that.
47:43
I don't want to take too much credit because we need to be able to do this at scale, but that movement is already happening. >> So my name is Puti.
47:52
I am a dual degree electrical engineering and MBA student here at Stanford, final year. >> Let's go.
47:57
[LAUGH] >> So my question is, there have been a couple of failures within the autonomous vehicle space, right?
48:04
Billions and billions of dollars kind of lost.
48:07
So what is it that Zoox is doing so well, compared to some of the other ones?
48:11
And, I guess, what do you think are some of the things they didn't do so well that you're kind of course correcting for?
48:17
>> You're not going to get me to comment on others, that's just not what I do.
48:21
Because I don't like it when people comment on us, so I don't comment on others.
48:24
What I can tell you Zoox is very focused on is, it's actually a thing at Zoox.
48:29
We use a lot of sort of analogies and common language.
48:33
And I promise you that if you meet somebody from Zoox and you ask them what is tiny, small, medium, large scale, rinse and repeat?
48:40
They will tell you, yeah, that's something we use.
48:42
because we really try and be slow, careful, measured, we think this is a long game.
48:48
By now, you've heard all my spiel around the history and philosophy.
48:53
And sometimes, now I'm going to go on my soapbox.
48:56
>> [LAUGH] >> Sometimes I have to remind myself that, okay, we're special, but we're not so special, okay?
49:03
This world, I mean, folks have been doing incredible things for society, humanity advancement for a while.
49:13
If you could wake up somebody who passed away 2,000 years ago, and drop them in the middle here right now.
49:22
We probably would have to take them to a psychiatric hospital.
49:24
>> [LAUGH] >> because they'd be like, whoa.
49:26
So I trust humanity, I am optimistic.
49:31
Big things, though, aviation took a while, lots of billions of dollars.
49:36
Even the current passenger automobile took a while.
49:42
I mean, go look at some of the articles about New York and the infrastructure of New York.
49:48
And the horses and the carriage and the jobs and the stables.
49:51
And the end of the day, you have to be measured.
49:55
You do have to have irrational belief, otherwise you don't start.
49:59
Sometimes at Zoox I run into somebody who's been there for a long time.
50:03
And be like, I'm really sorry that we didn't do XYZ.
50:05
I'm like, well, if you had thought of doing XYZ, you wouldn't have started Zoox.
50:09
Or you wouldn't have been that early, because there are phases.
50:13
And I think what Zoox is doing really well is slowing down, understanding the weight of what we're doing.
50:19
And being very measured along the way, knowing that this is a long game, and still very early.
50:26
>> Hi, I'm Tiffany, I'm [COUGH] part of the trailblazer cohort of the LEEDs program.
50:33
Thank you for your thoughts on the AI.
50:37
It's really hit home on, I think, the Pandora's box might have been already open.
50:43
My question is on, you mentioned you were only irritated with your partner a few times.
50:49
I'm wondering, as someone coming up in the ranks, how much should you allow irritation or one-sided generosity before you move to something else?
50:58
>> [LAUGH] >> [LAUGH] She's so elegant in the way she asks her question. >> [LAUGH] She is.
51:06
>> Look, first of all, I want to make sure, we've irritated each other, just so we're clear.
51:17
Yes, I get mad, I think that's what you're asking.
51:20
I get annoyed, I'm on a journey, I try very hard, I also know my triggers.
51:28
Everybody at Zoox who interacts with me will tell you that Friday 5 PM is not the best time to be having a difficult meeting with me.
51:36
Or if you're going to have it, then I have to really prepare myself, because by that time I'm exhausted.
51:42
And I'm also thinking about, okay, it's the weekend, and your kids, I mean, now they're teenagers, they don't care.
51:47
But there's that middle period where they're like, that's kind of interesting how you only have energy for work.
51:53
And so, literally, I think about Friday as, okay, glass of wine, that part is good.
51:57
>> [LAUGH] >> The part that's not good is showtime at home on Saturday.
52:02
But in general, I try really hard to treat people how I want to be treated.
52:09
An extra point if I understand how they want to be treated.
52:14
I have a rule of three, after three, come on, it's not working.
52:20
I try and encourage with saying I'm not afraid of mistakes.
52:23
But let's look for new mistakes, which is code for old mistake, learning, what do we do about it?
52:31
But yeah, occasionally I will lose it.
52:33
If I lost it in a way that I'm really mad at myself for, and I usually know.
52:39
Because my best performance review is essentially every night, if I can't sleep.
52:46
I'll go apologize, there was somebody at Zoox who very early on caught me in a moment.
52:52
I was tired, I was stressed, and I was not proud of how I acted.
52:57
I went and found that person.
52:59
You can imagine when they saw me coming, they were like, gosh.
53:02
>> [LAUGH] >> But I said, look, I'm really sorry, I lost it, I will try to do better, I can't promise perfection.
53:11
But there are also times where people were like, wow, you are useless.
53:14
And I'm like, yeah, it was needed.
53:17
I felt like unless I did that, we were not going to have [SOUND] the conversation, oops, sorry.
53:21
>> [LAUGH] >> The conversation [LAUGH] we needed to have.
53:25
What I can promise you, though, is I'm loving.
53:28
Because I do think that's another thing for Marshall, and Alan Mulally in particular.
53:33
To do what we do, we have to love what we do, but we also have to love each other.
53:38
So it's a loving environment.
53:40
And the same way if you could talk to my kids, they would tell you some things that I'm not proud of.
53:45
I'm not going to sit here and tell you that I'm perfect.
53:47
I go on a journey of discovery, and a journey of continuous improvement.
53:54
>> Awesome, Aicha, it's View From The Top tradition that we end every single interview with this series of rapid fire questions. >> Okay.
54:00
>> So I'm going to make a statement, and then you will fill in the blank with the first thing that comes to mind, and we'll go really quickly.
54:06
Okay, the dish I was best known for when I owned a restaurant was? >> Easy.
54:12
>> My number one role model in the field of science and innovation is? >> Marie Curie.
54:17
>> My favorite way to spend time outside of work? >> Be a bum.
54:20
>> [LAUGH] >> [LAUGH] My dream robo-taxi co-passenger? >> Nelson Mandela.
54:32
>> And one piece of advice I wish I knew earlier in my career?
54:36
>> Take a chill pill, it's going to be okay.
54:38
>> [LAUGH] >> Aicha, thank you so much for joining us at View From The Top. >> Thank you.
54:42
>> [APPLAUSE] >> Thank you. [MUSIC]