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this is the Batcave I'm never really sure on this thanks for having us thanks for welcoming it's good to see all the way to my place it's a pleasure it's lovely to be here it's my first time actually in this part in the Midwest and
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being out here I realized like wow isolation plays such a big part in your creative spirit right yeah the isolation helps when creating something I think that people would assume that the pressure of you know making it another
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record to follow kind of something that was considered a big moment for us in our career would be the pressure when really it's the tiny it's the tiny comments that I think about like when someone a friend's mom says I love you I
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love your last record I could just press play and listen to the whole thing as I worked out something tiny like that when I'm working on a song we'll all of a sudden like can they work out to this it's the tiny little comments about the
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music and the decisions made in it that if I let too much of that in it can completely affect whether I turn left or right well look it's really great to be human and you're in your studio in your space where this new album has been made
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you know and I know that this is a particularly intense moment for us to catch up because normally what happens is you know I catch up and others like yourself after a few weeks of decompression in the office done yeah
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but I sort of snuck up on you and did this deliberately because I really when I heard the music the idea of coming here and seeing you the day the albums have got done that seed was planted because I realized that you had going so
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deep and on the ideas the concepts and the entire complete thought of this album and I want to get you in as much raw and that's literally right now I don't right now III yeah I'm pretty tired and every moment away from a song
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he's very valuable because the fresh ears aspect of it how was that break that you took necessary it was it was very necessary a lot of the last album cycle there's a lot of traveling and were you caught lightning in a bottle I
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mean you had to write it as you had to go yeah go go go yeah the schedule was very unpredictable you know this is the next thing we need to do to to capitalize on on the momentum this time around I'm looking forward to a little more structure like
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we kind of know what to expect a little bit more which is fantastic and yet you find yourself from what I've heard of this album which is the whole thing thus far is that you have chosen this opportunity to dive deeper I love stories I love
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being able to dive into a story and write from that perspective a lot of a lot of my writing is obviously very personal and something I'm working through but there's some of it that I you know like to understand the people
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around me and try to dissect and and analyze it and I wanted to I wanted to create a world that I could to go into and write from and and in that world I was I could control the exterior and what was kind of pushing down on me it
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and that that control was very helpful in the creative process where in reality we we are I can't really control that how people perceive it or what pressures are being applied to what types of songs should be written and what type of
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record should be written and how people feel about it yeah what decisions we should make and what shows we should play and whether or not we should do live TV and all the stuff that you know I don't particularly enjoy you lived that life really lived inside that world as much as you probably could stomach on the last album because blurryface was it kind of makes sense because I feel like you like trenchless as you said it before to some
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degree as a geographical yeah play it's like you've created a world blurryface was a character yeah so you had to confront that how did you feel at the end of that experience because they fans will want to know they loved the way
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that you announced your hiatus it's always funny how you have to announce which we never called it a - we do we picked that - you guys picked that we yet this is feel like we gotta call something yeah a I call it a holiday
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right baby's issues all isn't hiatus kind of say that like Josh never sick of each other isn't that what that kind of means hiatus is always the step step before split yeah that's like it's like an intervention yeah that's that's not what
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happened but that's what we're calling that it's fun yeah so what wrong with you guys yeah yeah you seem to have a great relationship and I guess they even at the end of all that Turing it I mean you tell me how it'll felt at the end of
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the blurryface campaign with heathens throwing on top yeah after I had done I wrote blurryface we really said we started touring in a bunch I couldn't there's something sometimes it's hard to just to start creating it's
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kind of like a muscle need to work out well when when the heinous things came that came up I kind of took that as an exercise like let me just get something going get it give me a reason to write right now because I have a lot to say
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but I just can't everything I turn to every every progression every sample just feels uninspired to me right now and this this idea came up well is this movie coming out I didn't know much about the movie and you know they want
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to know if you would you're right song for it like well I don't know that's not really I've never done anything like that before um and then they made show me a few scenes and they say well you know we want you to do either like a
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shoot-'em-up Will Smith's like song or a twisted love song between the Joker and Harley Quinn and neither those things struck me as I was like you know I'm just gonna write a song that I feel like it's probably gonna be for the next
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record or at least be for our fans with my own twist on if I were meeting with those villains and I was bringing someone along like Britta bring your friend to work day well what kind of conversation would I have in the car
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before I got in there in a sense if this song were to kind of well we kind of got shoved into the mainstream and I felt like I always wanted to explain to the mainstream audience like about our fans and who we really are and try to bring them along and can I go listen this is this is what you should expect you know tread lightly but we're you know we're we're powerful and these kids have something to say and they're worth listening to and so that
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song kind of became something that I wanted to write to explain our dynamic with our fans and thinking that it would in no way fall in line with the movie and it did and then it just kind of took off from there so it was a good exercise
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to get things flowing and did it I'll try that did you feel inspired yeah sir right any more yeah a lot of ideas strange hit ya know at the the chorus wasn't initially the course melody was the verse melody cuz I just didn't feel
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like it was moving around the changes like like it should and um I remember I showed Josh and a couple other guys on the road when I was just demoing it on my laptop and all I had was the verse and like just the beat and the vibe like
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I gotta find a chorus in a few minutes after I'd showed them we're you know getting ready for the show and I hear someone ice don't know who it was it's one of the four or five guys that I was kind of just showing stuff to they
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whistled the melody of what I thought was the verse down the hall as I was getting ready and that's what I was like that's of course so how do we get to trench Tyler how do you get how do you go from a character based concept into something which is an entire world which requires so much more fleshing out and so much more color and the videos require so much more commitment and everything else yeah well you asked earlier like how was it to
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take a break the hiatus and to step away for what is now I guess a year honestly I the moment our last show which was here in Columbus it's like our final show of the entire cycle I went home and I started work coming up with
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this this world and it just it to it it started to consume me that's all I could think about I know every aspect of this world like I know what the weather's like in this world and I wanted to go there and right from that place in this studio
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then kind of became in a sense my my version of it and I really wanted to dive deeper into the narrative of who blurryface is not just to me but who he's become you know it's always probably very true but it seemed a little cliche to say you know it's we wouldn't be here without our fans and you know this is a you know this is about our fans and it wouldn't be without them but I don't think they know how much they've written a narrative and
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how much of a back and forth we've been having without them really even being fully aware this record is I mean they they really did help write it this thing wouldn't be breathing without him and they helped create this world as well
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how do you how do you absorb that influence because you can see it when you're on a stage and you can hear it when you have a chance to meet them and talk to them about it and how do I hear that yeah like if they take it is it is
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the Internet man yeah yeah I'm around and their fleshing it out the tea I employ facing they're writing things about it and they're adding to it and moving things around and yeah I mean that's just incredible that's like
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creative collaboration in real time yeah I mean the character of blurryface was this was this person to me that I was trying to but then as the record cycle went on and as I saw him kind of come to life through other people's perspective and
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our fans the way that they viewed him it drove me to like agree with them on how he's perceived and how's he changed how's it change if you go back to what blurryface really was representing at the time is that kind of that mirror
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that I call it a seat at the table that you can stare across and really understand I mean I everyone knows what they don't like about themselves but how do you compensate for that what are you doing because of because you don't like
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that trying to understand that and maybe fix that then I realized that it's all about jurisdiction where there's certain places that I'll be whether it's mentally or physically where he he has jurisdiction and if I can try to leave
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those places if I can try to stay away from those places then he starts to lose a little more of a grip and control of um of me and that's what trenchant was and what it is and helped me kind of like compartmentalize in my mind where I
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need to try to leave and get to somewhere that's safer and a little more unpredictable a little more wild much more creative a little scarier a little bit of an abyss but you know what to play by his rules mmm that's helps I
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wonder when you realize that you were different you thought about things different and things settled with you differently and at what point your life you realized that you were gonna have to develop some tools in order to function
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and live with just the person that you are mm-hmm I never would have turned in music if if I didn't feel like I needed to work on something or change or cope with something I think that I was perfectly fine before music and then something happened
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where I just this just felt like a buildup of some sort and I didn't know how that I didn't know how to release that I didn't know how to decompress that and to have an outlet for it and I was forced to learn how to play the
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piano at least the way I look at it I grew up sharing a bedroom with my brother and he would tell you like me we both love music but there was something that happened where I realized okay I can say anything I want now and we don't
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want to first show my parents a song or two I was really concerned that they were gonna be really concerned I had your parents take it well that's what was so surprising about it was when I was concerned about like it felt like
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when I was writing a song and I would show someone that was like okay now let's start the conversation yeah but what would usually have been the beginning of a long conversation slash check up on you slash lecture was just wow that's great and that was it I goes the end of the conversation and that's what's like I can do this you're more ya the relief like I don't I don't have to like keep on talking about it afterwards what role did your faith
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play in that when you're growing up and trying to kind of be the person that you grew up being and also growing into being a young adult and wanting to be an artist and wanting that freedom that flexibility to touch on subjects because
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you've got to get out of your system right like I could see that that could create a conflict if not if it was your hands right I have this theory about leapfrogging in generations I think it kind of apply to faith apply to wealth
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there's this constant kind of overcompensation and then compensating that my parents grew up in an environment where there really wasn't any talk of faith or any sort of religion and then they both had a moment where they they became
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Christians when they were and like in their college age and so when they got married and wanted to raise kids they're like we're gonna you know we want to raise a family that you know has faith and believes in believes in God and it's
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still that and what I believe about God and my faith is I would say is very different from them but I think it's a lesson in knowing that what I believe is different from everyone you know even my mom my dad people who formed me they
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should they should in theory have the closest version of it but it's so different even even that and I think it's actually made made my faith stronger in the version that you know I I believe and I you know hold on to and
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this music I'm trying to create and trying to like answer those questions I'm throwing those questions out that I felt like you know weren't supposed to be asked but when I ask it in a song my parents just said it's great and that was such a big moment for me and so yeah my faith is constantly playing a part in the music that I write as I see at the very beginning of our conversation you're so tucked away in here it's I can see why you would just
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continue to work and create and work and create because it's a very protective place and I mean it feels literally like you're about five stories on the ground bomb shelter yeah it does you know and I wonder what it's like when you puppy hit
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up above ground for you what life's like let's talk about the pod and head out of the ground because that's actually a phrase Josh and I've used to kind of describe like the part of our career that we just don't remember yeah wait
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how did you guys like all of a sudden to our version of making it or getting people's attention we see all these bands around us I'm talking about local scene back you know eight nine years ago we see all these other bands around us
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we're trying to should we do what they're doing should we kind of try to follow their lead should we and we decided you know what let's just go underground and we went underground and we came up with a show and then we with
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our head down we just started saying yes to that show yes that let's play that let's play that let's play that let's do that let's create this head is down and then all of a sudden we came we came up and we had a record deal and we were
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playing we were doing a headline tour I was like man how did that happen and I realized the importance of isolation and just honing in on something and not letting what are they doing or why should we follow that or what is that
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does that change our decision now that they did that and just kind of diving in and going for it and then coming up and realizing wow we're like five miles ahead of those other bands that we were just looking at well road is Josh
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playing all this video outside of being an amazing drummer and being a part of and one half of the band everything else but our human level you know you guys are you've lost some of the oddities but also you seem like kind of different
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people which is good I think I mean in the live show especially there's been some shows where man I don't feel like I should be up here right now yeah I don't feel good enough I don't feel like what I'm doing is considered good but that
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others you spend so many times I look over Josh and he's just ripping man and it and it just shocks my system and then I walked downstage and then square my shoulders up to the audience and then there's only really been one show where
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it happened to him and me and we got offstage and we were just like what just happened do you know the time that it was happening yeah it was a festival and I think was would have been like 2013 was like one
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of our first times doing a festival in Europe but I think he was it may have been buckle pop yeah so onto a main stage like oh my gosh we're mainstays like 3:00 p.m. that's crazy and you just realize okay this is a scheduling thing like I mean
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and rightfully so which is our first time in that country like we there's no reason why we should we should have had an audience but you know when you when you get ready to play a show you can like I wonder who's gonna be there
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always I always assume no one's gonna be there just to get myself ready but I wasn't ready for the empty field like that field was so much bigger with people you people will think like look how many people there when the curtain
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when it's full it's like this field is ginormous yeah now wait until everyone's gone and then you realize how big that feel is it must be interesting finishing the record and watching people get it right or get it wrong everyone even well
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that's design they are they are also building the world like I said we're very not to come off as like on that stalker level but I do watch them and I see how and I don't watch everyone though I know I watch the ones that
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really really get it really understand you have specific fans that you not spit I mean it's a it's a it's a group of them I guess there's just this like outer layer noise then I just consider to be not relevant but what is that that
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that fan that really understands and is has tracked with me up until this point how are they how is this hitting them and the store builds from there man we'll see if this works by the way you're talking you're pitting this idea
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of a concept and the story it's very thought-out there's there's a bunch of time spent in between release and I don't I don't even know if this is gonna gonna work in the day of streaming and getting a single out every
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yes you can well you guys first came out people didn't understand the depth for subject matter and what you were really trying to say they were focusing on the melodies and the music and the beats and the production and the live shows and
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all the things that make a surface impression and over the course of all your albums now have found you going deeper and deeper and saying look you know there are fundamental things I'm trying to fix here or I'm trying to understand you know and now more than ever we're all trying to understand those things hmm and we're all having louder conversations about anxiety depression like yourself worth and we're speaking as one a lot more clearly about
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that because I think that that's pretty accepted that's a good way of trying to demystify it do you know what I mean we're getting that right we're getting that right this is moving in the right direction for sure it's something that
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you experience I'm taking a punt on that Mister yeah music yeah um the fact that we're now in a world where we're talking about it something that I've been looking for for a while and I'm really glad that we're here I'm proud of our
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culture in that way for sure it's a mean suicide - you know you we like to name like the depression and the anxiety like we terrified of that word yeah we gotta say that - you know when you're right it's it's finally we're talking about it's a thing you know my mom's a schoolteacher and she she has she I talk with her all the time about the things that she looks out for and how how it affects kind of that environment as its own microcosm of a
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culture and it's um it's important to talk about and then it's real and how real can I get for you I've always been pretty good at compartmentalizing there's nothing it's not because I had to cope with something whatever I think that I was maybe born
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with just being able to compartmentalize and I think my music is like the only real true window into a compartment that I about it's about as comfortable as I like to get with diving into something that I that is still breathing moving
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shifting adapting becoming immune and as much as the conversation about it is very good there's something about the personal aspect of it that it is very good to make sure that it doesn't take life and doesn't gain traction and
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breathe oxygen and so my music is me talking about it and it's the window into it but I don't I don't think it's healthy for me to give you the keys to that house mm-hmm the reason I reached on my phone was because I'm looking at
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the track listing and I wanted to talk about we've talked about this on also with the last song once about to leave the city and we'll talk about the restrained weight that's in that song and how you never quite reaches the
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crescendo and it always promises but doesn't quite get there and it may and it just it's like I mean you tell me what the last word on the album is the last words there's a isolated seems they know what I mean yeah um I know what I
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mean that song not always inside of the narrative but in that narrative I know that I wanted to I need to leave somewhere and start this journey in this this point in between two places that a lot of us can find ourselves in whatever
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version of that fits into your life we're always trying to we're always trying to dance in between those two places how do we get there and it's scary and it's you don't know what to expect and it's kind of hard to see but
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that but this right is about pushing through and starting that starting that that journey between those two places yeah I first started and I would never in this record I did not define what that that where you're supposed to be is though I didn't it
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there's no name for it there's no that's not defined and that was intentional to be a part of this process I knew this record was about getting up and starting that and I'm not going to I'm not gonna find that thing in this
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record yet and that's what the song leave the city does it gets you there and then it doesn't kind of drops you off and like okay you're about to embark on another you know tour and all the things that come with making music and
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reaching your fans but leave the city could take you anywhere huh right I mean yeah do you even what's next what's Nixon is it even music and is it did you enjoy that year off I mean you've got an amazing house you're married you've got
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a CTO to Jenni your wife he's lovely by the way she's um my son your own record should I talk about her for a second one hundred per second starting this career felt like I was standing at the edge of an ocean and I was given some supplies and they were like okay make a boat and I put this thing together and I wrapped it up and I built this boat and enough to start to float and we started going and found some more debris on the way and
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kind of built this thing and then before you know it I'm in this like tugboat sized thing and it's got a motor and we're going mm-hmm and then eventually things happen and I'm on I'm on a yacht and we're just flying it through this for this journey
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and all the while I think that some people would assume that my significant other in the process is in a smaller boat next to me waiting for this boat to inevitably either wreck or run out of fuel and when it does
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I hop on to hers and we head off into the sunset when actually what's happening is in relation to who she is to me I've built this little tugboat thing and that's about that's about as big as it ever got and she is waiting
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for me to run out of gas in a cruise ship and when that goes down I've got this to pick me up it's just a really weird way of saying that she's the best thing I've accomplished mmm and I can't wait to just lean on her oh there you go
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there you go all right I can't wait those will vote those are great words I maybe that'll inspire the next record oh there he is he's pulling it back from the brink of absolute disaster that was the moment where it all came out right
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there but understandably so on the last day of the album you're like you know and remember what I said about flirting with finality not a suit what's the obsession with finality yeah you have this life you have this other boat yeah
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and yet you choose to stay on on tugboat man are you unafraid of of living a different life I think that be amazed how many musicians are afraid of stopping yeah I I think what helps me is to glorify getting old not be afraid of it yeah I'm looking forward to it and I think that if if our culture were to see our elderly in that way as like they've accomplished something they've ran a race and they have a lot to tell us about how we could
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better run it I think that that would help with a lot of things is that always thought that way is that what you put 200 people on the cover of ISM yeah I've always felt that way and actually my grandfather who's on that cover he he
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died last month but he was a big part of my life and I think more so now after his passing do I realize how much of a resource I had and I have have one grandfather who's still living who's absolutely still an inspiration to us
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the questions you know he's a he's dealt with alcoholism his whole life and he's been sober for so many years now and you've never drunk right no yeah never had and being on the road and I've never felt the pole - it just doesn't I've had wine I I've had it you want to ask me about my first alcoholic man 100% it was a it was an expired Bud Light and I was like probably 13 that's it and it was terrible and uh in a way I think it's a
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blessing it's a blessing yeah I had to chase it with Gatorade it was awful excited man nope told you it's a slanted just lay on the table why do you think I have all these gigantic mouse pads over here dude this is the most pristine and
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clean amazing like I gotta be honest with you don't tell me you cleaned it for Jenna dusted this before you guys came have you been literally sitting in here in your pants like in your boxer shorts literally just stinking up the joint
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it's you know bit I yeah you take on me I did I shaved last night get out of here you had a bed how deep it ago it was terrible no no how no itchy and I hate it is it long it wasn't it was stringy it was I can first real beard it was night like
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really gonna you got a culture a beer you can't just grow it out and think you gonna look like Rick Rubin that takes like decades I know there's so many more things I need to go through in my life before I can really get in yeah you
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reason why so many things you gotta experience for the very first time as beard trousers some point you put those on yeah see how they feel I didn't shower for a long time there's a moment where I hadn't looked in the mirror in
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like a week you should try that it's crazy oh my god what did you notice the fist to me let's do so I felt like I was getting older Wow so you noticed a change cuz yeah in a week I was like yeah maybe I was just really tired but
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that's actually makes sense if you haven't known what were you eating maybe you'll be good obviously yeah I mean Jenna was thank you she's a culinary artist did did she have a concern did you even come down and just put your pet on the show I
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just feel like yeah she told me like you shouldn't eat you should you should say hey she's never too particular about hygiene but she did several times once less than you to the shower just those types of questions what amazing time in
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your life man to be able to have achieved all of this and know you still have fuel in the tank to make your own most ambitious album and project to date like most people settle here and then it's there's a compromise somewhere
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along the line there's no compromise going on your art and yet you've already gotten to this place yeah and I just think like as a way of saying goodbye I wonder if you ever allow yourself probably not in the last 12 months but
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if any point you allow yourself a chance to reflect finally on where you're at in your life because how are you know Tyler 29 between 9 years old right are you scared of feeling reflective or feeling satisfied I love creating I need to
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create but there's something about kid when it gets to this level there's something about convincing yourself that it's it's kind of not real it's it's something that will go away and preparing yourself I know you talk about
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finality being something that artists are obsessed with but I think that you just you you have to try to get get okay with that and the quicker you do the more you'll enjoy this moment and yeah I'm I'm not you know what is that didn't
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you know what you know what cures that what the end of narcissism and you know what kills narcissism kids I can't wait to have kids me yeah it's one more cycle it's been great hanging hey thanks for letting us set you