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I always love coming to New York and interviewing my favorite pop stars.
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I did Gaga Down the Road here somewhere at Johnson. >> Oh, yeah. No, I saw that one.
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>> Um, we're going to look at a video. What's it for? >> This is for party. >> For party.
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>> Couple of questions before you watch this video about the song.
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Third song on the record samples Madonna. >> Yep.
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>> Why did you choose that?
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And is there any relationship with Madonna existing previous forthcoming?
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Like what's the story behind using music?
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Well, so first of all, Madonna like a prayer is like one of my first things that I remember in my whole life.
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She's always been important to me.
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>> But then um I was actually thinking about that Gaga interview where she's like bus club, another club, whatever, you know, listening.
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And I was like, yeah, that's kind of like a how a good weekend feels.
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Like I think when I'm my happiest, when I'm partying is when I cuz I'll put these like kind of rules up in my head where I'm like, "Oh, well it's it's 3:00.
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I should probably go home." You know what I mean?
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And the best thing ever is when I like push through and I'm like, "No, why am I setting these imposing these rules on myself?
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Like, let me just keep going kind of thing."
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Um, and I feel like that's when I have a lot of fun.
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>> And so that was the starting point for the song.
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And the song is this like cyclical kind of like thing that just keeps going and going and going.
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And then there's a moment in the song where it cuts to these like breaths and just like the sub.
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>> And to me, it's like all of a sudden you're you're kind of like at the party.
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it's like super wide or whatever and then it immediately goes inward and you're just in yourself and it's like that moment where you know like the music is kind of like pulsing through your entire body and you can kind of like feel the heat of one of the lights on your face and and music by Madonna is playing at this party >> and you're just kind of like lost in in that moment and so um that was why I wanted to to >> That's cool.
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So what's up with the video?
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>> The video >> you didn't have to reach out to Madonna to get the sample. >> I I did. >> You did? >> Yes. She's fine.
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>> She was lovely about it. >> Awesome. >> Made it super easy. I I haven't met her yet.
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I'm going to meet her I think for the first time in like a week. >> Really?
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>> Um I hope we'll see if it ends up happening.
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But um the video, >> so basically Gordon Bonsteiner, who I work with on all my music videos, him and I were talking about this song Party, and we were talking about how I think for both of us, like partying is actually something that we take quite seriously >> and something that I think is like really important to like humanity, you know what I mean?
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Just like >> almost like an act of resistance >> fully.
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And and this idea of like letting loose, I think, is something that's very innate and like required.
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And so well then surely if it's innate surely people have always partied in some capacity and especially queer people you know like I think I remember the first time I set foot in a gay bar and it was like I was in Cape Town >> and >> the feeling of not being the minority for the first time in my whole life.
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>> Like you keep all of this like it feels like a pressure cooker inside of you for the first like in my case 15 years of my life of not telling anyone.
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And you're a kid as well, so you're like terrified.
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It's like a real kind of tent pole moment, I think, in a queer person's life.
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And like through like resistance, night life becomes this like sacred space. >> Can I see it? >> Yeah, of course. I'm excited.
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>> Conquest is nearly behind us. >> Oh you went in.
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>> Fire blaze from one end of the realm to the other. >> This isn't cosplay. This is serious.
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For at long last a party in the park, party in the bush is epic. >> Party of the cold. Party in the day. Party in my house.
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Party on the way to the party at the park. [music] Sick. Sick. >> Nice. brilliant, man. Thank you. >> Brilliant.
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What a crazy concept, right?
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In like the most authentic way as well.
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>> Like it actually looks like a proper historical period drama.
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>> The concept itself is like quite camp which I love obviously.
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>> But then I was like to Gordon, >> we have to make it like the most cinematically gorgeous thing in the entire world. You know what I mean?
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Like it has to look like >> No, it has to look like the favorite or something like that. You know what I mean? Yeah.
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>> 2 hours outside of London and it was amazing. >> Yeah. I was shook.
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Like when we arrived at the battle scene, I was like, "What the is going on?"
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Like this is the craziest thing I've ever seen in my life.
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Um, for the voiceover in the beginning, I really wanted like I think I love the idea of this like queer lineage as well, you know, like through night life and through kind of these spaces, these like party spaces, there's this like education that kind of happens where I feel like the older generation or the generation above kind of like ushers in and and kind of educates the the newbies.
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And so yeah, this idea that that get has been passed down and down and down like so Ian Mckllen was like I asked him if he would do a voiceover for the beginning of of this video.
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>> You wrote him a letter.
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>> Um I made him a video. >> Okay.
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>> And then he sent me a video back, >> right?
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>> He was in full Gandalf gear >> and he Gandalf >> he is Gandalf in the video that he sent me in his like trailer.
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Um and then he used like the Lord of the Rings sound team to record this voiceover for me.
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So like all of my correspondence was with like the production company who makes those movies and I'm like emailing them like to get the files and stuff and it was awesome. >> That's incredible. >> Yeah, he's legend. >> Oh my god.
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You just want him to do a voiceover and he he took you to Middle Earth. >> Yeah, literally.
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>> But yeah, it was really fun.
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>> But the choreography is beautiful as well. Amazing.
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And I and I've loved to see that over the course of these last two albums.
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You know, you really embracing movement in a in a really free way.
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It's like you're sort of going through each stage of your version of the perfect pop trajectory. Do you know what I mean?
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>> Well, that's an interesting thing about this album is like the sort of poppy like dancy side of this album comes with so much like self-awareness.
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self-awareness. I would say >> it's almost like a little bit meta or something like that where it's like like for example there's a song called I do this for you on the album >> and I'm talking to you know this album is kind of dedicated to this like man that
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I don't know to this person that I have never met or maybe I have and I just don't haven't realized it yet but um you know it's like I was on tour with Charlie and we're having this like insane time >> that it just felt like an absolute like tsunami in in I think both of our lives at that time. And the whole thing I
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And the whole thing I think was that it was a party for every single person who came to those shows. You know what I mean? It was like a nightclub.
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And so there was this like crazy crazy experience of like the ultimate connection and like joy and just feeling so like one with the world.
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And then I had no idea how to rationalize like the feeling that I would have when I would go home afterwards.
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And it wasn't just like there maybe an element of it is the crash from the show and everything like that, but I think there was like yeah like the less kind of like pretty part of it was definitely like a deep loneliness, maybe even exacerbated by what was going on, you know?
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And so now in on this album in these like pop songs that I imagine that are happening on stage, there's this like element of something's not right. You know what I mean?
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Like something is kind of twisted about them a little bit.
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Like again, do this for you.
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It starts off in this like bombastic song that I'm like, "Oh, I can't wait to do this live."
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And it's like in my head, these songs take place on stage.
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Like they're like it's like a story where you know I'm like fully on stage >> and then it breaks down into the bridge and like the lyric is like find hot singles in the Los Angeles area and it's like you know these pop-up ads that I'm getting when I go home.
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to tailored for you by the way which is even more like algorithmically attacking me >> and um [laughter] >> you are lonely. I'm like, I know.
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But um but you know, so I think that like these things start to kind of like break.
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And it's not that it's not that either side of the album is more true than the other.
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And that's something that I had to kind of like understand about this album was that my life was very there was like so much tension in it because I was experiencing these like extremes, you know, you know, even the coro and stuff like that.
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There's there's kind of like at least to me there's this like nod to this is this side of me that is very very very true.
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>> I just wish it was like me 100% of the time. You know what I mean?
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And I wish it was me more than it actually is. You know what I mean?
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Like it's like it started to at a certain point there was just this like disconnect that I needed to um like address somehow.
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You know, >> you can hear it on the record.
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I mean you talked about it being two sides. It really is.
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It starts almost like an extension of of your previous record, you know, an extension of that of that party with Charlie and and you know the the sort of euphoric trail that comes after that experience and then it slowly but surely does sink deeper and deeper into this kind of mania. >> Yeah.
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This moment of self-reflection to the point of obsession of like what the you know, by the end of it.
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I actually found it quite hopeful at the end and I think the last lyric is quite hopeful but it definitely it's it's a really honest record dressed up in great clothes. >> Thank you.
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I mean that's the thing is that like ultimately when I'm making something I know that I can only ever stand behind it if it's like true.
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>> And so even like this record is tougher for me because it's like >> it's like uglier. You know what I mean?
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Like I think that the last time how fun to parade yourself around the world and be like, "Yeah, I'm like feeling super connected to everyone and I'm like very open and I'm meeting all these people."
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It was honestly co I think co for me in Melbourne in between the lockdowns became this like mecca where it's the first time in many years that I wasn't traveling for work. >> Yeah.
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>> And I had the opportunity to like really connect with people >> in like a personal way.
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And so that was what I took into into that album.
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And then this time around it's like yeah like I'm there like lyrics about jerking off and you know what I mean?
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Like it's like okay it's like not the most fun thing to acknowledge.
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>> Well even that lyric hard and impatient. What a what a bar.
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It's like and I think Sexar is a great song.
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I think you and Phineas and the team and your brother made a great piece of music there.
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Um, it's almost the closest thing to a ballad on the record, >> but that lyric really reminds you that this is there's a frustration going on here to all the success. >> Yeah.
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I mean, that song, I love that song cuz it's like, >> what do I have to do to like meet this guy? You know what I mean? Like, I got a fake tan.
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I got a personal trainer.
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>> I like, you know, I'm like really really >> like throwing all of this >> stuff at the wall.
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I'm sure there are lots of tools that you're using to try to figure out how to better understand yourself and then be more present for whoever it is when they come into your life, right?
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Try to be the best version of yourself you can be and then leave room to grow.
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So, through those tools, whether it's therapy or whether it's exercise or other endorphin or even partying or whatever you're going through to figure it out, um what are you understanding about about your identity or about who you are today that may or may not subconsciously be kind of creating caution or perhaps putting up some kind of barrier between you and whoever's out there?
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or do you think it's just you haven't met them yet? >> No, I think it's me. Yeah, I think it's me.
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Um cuz I meet a lot of people, you know, >> it's crazy.
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So, for this album, I made a list of photographers that I want to work with for the editorials >> cuz I kind of wanted to take a little bit more charge of how things looked even in like magazines and stuff.
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And my ex-boyfriend used to photograph me all the time when we were together.
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And he's an amazing photographer and he was like kind of the like the great like love of my life I would say so far.
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Um and he him and I we still share dogs.
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We're like you know kind of in contact but um but we're not like you know hanging out all the time and stuff.
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It's always nice when I see him but it's it's whatever.
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Um, and I put his name on the list of photographers almost as a joke to myself.
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I was like, that would be kind of crazy if like, you know, cuz we put out this little zen for my second album, Bloom, of like photos that he had taken of me. >> Yeah.
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>> I put his name on the list and I was like, it would be interesting to have these photos like 8 years later.
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You know, so much life has happened since then and whatever.
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Anyways, before I knew it, it was like actually happening and they like this magazine had reached out to him to ask him if he would shoot me and I hadn't even asked him or anything like that.
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So then I like panic and I'm like, "Hey, by the way, this actually like did come from me. Would you be interested? It's totally fine. If not, whatever." And he said yes.
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So he would like love to. >> Wow.
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>> It was Well, the thing was I went in feeling so chill.
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I don't know what came over me that I was like this is not a big deal.
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Like this is going to be so fine.
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Cut to we're [laughter] like doing this one shot and it's like there's the second shot of the day and there's no one else around and it's just the two of us and like Lost Boys by Phoebe Bridges is playing on the on speaker and he like does this and I can see like wrinkles here that he didn't have like the last time I saw him, you know, and it like just rocked me.
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Like I I was I had my rocked for a second and I like was like, "Fuck, I need to say something cuz I'm going to look really weird in this photograph if like if I don't, you know, so I I I said something and had like a really really good like cry for a second and I think it was one of those moments where you know, you speak about like blocks and stuff.
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I'm like I think the thing of like becoming single at the same time as like work was blowing up for me in a way that I couldn't have anticipated.
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And also like the fact that a lot of the people that listen to my music are also like in the dating pool that I'm trying to to date.
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I think it freaked me out and I went really I kind of locked down. You know what I mean? >> Yeah.
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And so I think I still probably have like quite a lot of work to do on on that.
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And it's like kind of you know what the album is.
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I think what you can hopefully feel in the album, even though again it's not like that fun to acknowledge is like a person in like wanting, you know, in longing and like um all the kind of like like a song like FF where it's like like drags you through.
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It's like that's kind of how it how it feels, you know? >> Yeah.
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Yeah, but that's why I said it's really dressed up to go out on the town because the arrangement and the musicality around FF and Le Boy and are really like they're reaching for something quite euphoric >> even in the even in in a mid-tempo point of view.
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It's like they want to go out and feel something >> pretty euphoric >> through the kind of honesty and the sort of self-awareness of it. I think it's crazy.
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Your inner voice is doing a lot of work.
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I mean for you even to say it was a joke.
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I mean, to reach out to your ex from a creative point of view and bring him so closely into you, it's an intimate experience having your photo taken, especially if no one else is around.
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I got to ask you, when you saw the photos back, do you see yourself different the way he shoots you? >> I think I do. Yeah.
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You know, I think like Yeah.
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I just think that, you know, it's you know how it is with your first love.
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I think it's like it's never going to >> it's always going to be there, you know.
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It's like um and so I was so grateful for for the experience, but I think it what it it showed me is I was like, "Oh, shit."
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like I have like I've got you know like old hangups still at this point you know and it's like >> um and then it's like all of a sudden in the track list like I didn't want to do like dancy pop songs sad longing depressed songs like because that's again that was not what was happening.
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So you go all of a sudden it's like Troy meets world and you know it's like again there's this like self-awareness there where I'm like oh yeah this is mental like >> I'm going all around the world I'm meeting all these people I'm like dancing whatever but like and then it
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ends in this like kind of woodwind section that I'm like I think the kind of like um surreal aspects of the album or the like again sort of manic thing like I I really really was interested in kind of leaning into um the layers of of all of that stuff. >> Did turning 30 feel profound to you?
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>> Did turning 30 feel profound to you? >> Actually, yeah. 30 was scary. 31 I feel nothing.
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Like I'm But 30 it was 30 was weird. Um >> yeah. I don't know.
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I mean I I've always had like a bit of a tension with it all because like I >> I love my family so much and they're all in Australia and I think you know I've been living overseas by myself for a long time and thankfully my my family is like starting to kind of move over here.
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Like my brother Tide is living here now, my sister's living here and that's helping a lot.
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But like, you know, I do I have I have like >> [snorts] >> um things that I care about more than my career, you know. >> It's a crazy one.
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You know, that's that that is probably the ultimate sacrifice of doing anything that takes you away from home, the great adventure.
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You don't think about it in those first years, it's just all experience.
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It's all ambition and and whatever.
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But then eventually to your point whether it's 30 or some point you you stop and you realize like >> like I'm not going to have a like an infinite supply of opportunity to spend time with these people >> like life is happening >> and I've got to make the most of that as well and finding that balance.
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I think it's cool your brother worked on this record with you.
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That must have made a really big difference having someone who just speaks your language really inherently and >> totally feeling of trust when you're going through this kind of emotional change like oh who am I?
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I'm seen as this, but I'm this.
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Let me put some real foundation into this. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
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I mean, also, we just like I I was really interested in the album coming from like a different place other than like the recording studio, you know?
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I just I I think like on my last one, I was so obsessed with trying to make this like perfect pop that I still love and I would like, you know, I'm going to continue to try and make that for my whole life probably.
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But the thing that felt more much much much more challenging to me this time was making something that felt, you know, almost like random and and like off the cuff kind of thing.
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And so, yeah, making it at home with my little brother and like recording my own vocals and not even knowing how to like bounce stems, having to figure that out for the first time when I'm like sending things to mix, you know, it's like it was a really um really like thrilling musical experience.
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And also working with Jack, >> like Jack's process is so different from anyone else's that I've ever worked with.
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How how did you absorb that?
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>> So he I'm used to being super measured in the studio.
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>> We find a part, we find the right sound for it, we put it in, we move on to the next part. You know what I mean?
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And like um it's pretty rare that you know sometimes I guess like the writing can happen quite quickly, but production stuff it's like very very methodical.
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Jack is like the complete opposite.
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He has everything set up and ready to go. Everything is like on.
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And Laura, his incredible engineer that he works with all the time, >> is like they speak this other language.
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They've been working together for like so long at this point.
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so long at this point. And and so it becomes this like very very very fluid like energetic experience where and he's so amazing at every instrument like and it's like instruments that I've never seen before and he's got tape machines
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and he's running this through that and whatever and it's like he just kind of throws everything at it which honestly stresses me out like as in I I in the beginning I'm like oh my god like what is this kind of thing and then I'll sit with Laura or I'll sit with Jack and we like edit. So, how do you, if you've got
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So, how do you, if you've got Troy meets World Up and ready to go, and there's like 30 40% more in it than we actually hear on the record, how do you prevent yourself from doing the thing that you trained yourself to do, which is take away some of the random elements that Jack and Laura think are going to make it magical, but you might cut them off cuz you're just like, "No, no, no. It's not who I am."
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They're like, "But you could be." >> Yeah. >> If you let go. >> No, totally.
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I think I think like I know that Jack wanted to push me, you know, and I appreciate it so much, you know, and it's like I think when I look at my like end of year, what I'm listening to, >> I am listening to stuff that is like it's like Arthur Russell or something like that where I'm like, "Oh, this was like made from the heart."
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And like, >> you know, I think a lot about like furniture and the patino and like something that's actually vintage.
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It's like this is so cool.
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And it's like and I want I want that to be I wanted that to be in the music, you know?
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I wanted it to have like life.
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Like this is a this is a real lived experience more than like a pop project even necessarily.
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Well, it's an exercise in taste.
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And one of the things I think that people now really really respond to you is is your overall taste.
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>> But the trick is like what do I like?
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As Brainos says, what do I like?
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Like when did you first ask yourself that question going way back?
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When can you honestly say that you actually thought, I like that and I want to tell people about or I want I want to experience that and help others experience that.
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I mean, I have super early memories of music of hearing didn't know what they were at the time, but chord progressions that I really liked and I um you know like a song like Together Again by Janet Jackson.
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That was like a warmth that I was like, "Wo, what is this?
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You this is something like there's something that's evoking something in me that I I just didn't understand."
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And I knew that I wanted to hear it again.
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But then I think really it started to happen when I was like >> probably 13, 14 and started to, >> you know, there's like key people that come to mind.
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Like I I went and saw the Lily Allen show the other night and I remember her being like the first person that I was like, "Oh, wait.
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songs can be like funny and smart, you know, like that made me want to write lyrics.
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Or then like, >> you know, Amy Wine House was exactly the same thing where I'm like I feel so like deeply connected to her like not in any way that any I expect anyone else to like see or understand or whatever.
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It's just like I just love her so much.
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Just like such a special special special artist and she was the one who really like yeah she made me want to write songs.
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Um and then of course like Madonna, you know, it's like I think just I can think of these people throughout my life.
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Um imagine heap used to YouTube vlog and then like visually >> Yeah.
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>> I think it was maybe a little later in life like when I kind of got to um when I started traveling cuz I was in Perth like I didn't really get exposed to fashion and like crazy interiors and stuff like that.
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like that all came kind of like much later and um I'm I'm kind of grateful that it did because I also think it >> I don't know there's a lot of that like I don't want to partake in as well, you know?
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So, it's like I think that art is like >> in all forms it's like you'll know if you like something and it's okay to like it.
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>> It's awesome when you get to a point in your in your life where you're like it's okay if I like it and also it's okay that that amount of people agree with me and that amount of people don't.
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But when you're younger and okay, let's let's paint the picture like you're in Perth.
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You can't inherently know who you are.
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You know how you how you how you're created, how you're made, what inspires you, what titillates you, what moves you, who you love, who you're seeking.
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But to your point, you're not really being exposed to a lot of that kind of culture and community and whatnot.
23:59
You touched on this a little bit at the beginning of the conversation when you walked into the gay bar for the first time, but when you look back on that, were you were you did you have to pretend, do you think, when you were a kid?
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Did you have just to try to figure it out? >> Oh my god. Yeah, 100%. >> Yeah.
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>> Like I feel like the first, >> you know, 15 years of my life are just like a complete >> like performance. Yeah.
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It's like a some of my earliest earliest earliest memories in my life were like of suppression of self, you know?
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So, it's like I think maybe that's why I pursue self-expression with so much like vigor now is because I'm really grateful that I can kind of thing.
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Um >> I remember having a I've got a friend who um the way that he would stand, he would like kind of pop his hip or like hang his wrist and I would be like, "Oh my god, like pick your wrist up."
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cuz like I don't know if I was like we're going to get bashed or if I'm like I don't know what the the fear was but it it's a fear that was in me from like the day I was born basically. >> How exhausting.
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>> M >> that must have just been the whole time. >> Yeah.
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>> That's not like oh for an hour a day.
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That's like as soon as I wake up, I have to figure out how I'm going to carry myself in a manner that protects me from the perception or the realization others may have >> and whatever my brain tells me may occur from >> or like actually protects me like safety wise. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
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So, it's like >> but I mean it's like it influences everything at that at that age because you're also like I said you're a kid.
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your brain is not like fully developed and you're trying to understand this like really really really like big picture thing about >> the world and yourself and like your place in it and whatever and >> yeah that's Troy meets world real fast. >> Yeah. Exactly. Real fast. >> Yeah.
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But now I'm like anytime I feel any remnants of that I I like lean all the way in.
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I'm like okay no I'm going to do the exact opposite of whatever my like um fight or flight is telling me to do.
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I went out in drag the other night for the first time like out into the world >> for the first time. >> First time. >> How'd it feel? >> Scary.
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>> Like you know getting into an Uber is scary when you are a pretty girl with like a very deep voice.
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>> Did you feel an element of how you felt as a kid being in that cab dressed in drag? The same%. >> Yeah.
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It's like a full flashback. >> Yeah.
26:24
But then I felt really good. >> Yeah. >> It was fun. I had a good time.
26:25
I mean, it was just annoying to like it was so hot and sweaty and [laughter] I like had the hair in my face and I'm not used to having to dancing and like performing in those heels and stuff and with the 6ft like wig on top of your head like Yeah, it's crazy.
26:41
>> Can we talk about She's the Best, >> the title track of the album.
26:45
>> What a beautiful tribute. >> Thank you. >> Really amazing.
26:47
And I I wanted to sort of take the opportunity while we're here to talk about some of the strong female people in your life.
26:53
those those people that you're kind of paying tribute to either specifically or even just through the filter of the characters that you you're writing about.
27:00
>> Um, outside of your the people who you lived in the house with, the people who love and know you the best, who was one of the most important female role models in your life growing up?
27:13
>> The first person that came to my mind was um, it's so cliche, but she was my teacher at school >> and she is so fab. She is so fab.
27:20
She ended up becoming the principal of the school and did it all in like skinny jeans and like heels. >> Superstar.
27:30
>> Superstar beyond belief and just I think saw something in me that I was probably not ready to see by myself, you know, and like I that was, you know, some of my earlier memories of of like just being in awe of like a woman.
27:44
How did she nurture that in you without making it obvious enough for you to feel overly seen or scared at what she was what she'd recognized?
27:55
>> I mean, this is such a random example, but I did the swimming carnival.
27:56
Did you have swimming carnivals at school?
28:00
>> Well, take the carnival out of it and tell me what it is. I don't know.
28:02
>> It was just swimming competition. >> Yeah.
28:04
>> And [laughter] everyone had to >> I wish they called it a carnival out of it. Enjoyed it a lot more.
28:08
>> It was not a carnival.
28:08
It's just like [laughter] >> it's not a carnival when I did it, >> but it's compulsory.
28:11
Everyone has to do it and whatever.
28:13
And I have this horrifically traumatic experience of I could not make it more than four strokes without having to stop and like hold on to the thing and catch my breath.
28:20
And the whole school is watching and I'm like absolutely mortified.
28:24
>> It's like everyone's going to know that I'm gay cuz I suck at sport.
28:26
And I'm like what the Anyways, the next year >> Fishy this like queen >> Yeah.
28:33
>> is like you don't I was like I don't want to swim.
28:35
She's like you don't have to swim you can.
28:36
Which is like an exception to the rule like everyone has to swim. Yeah.
28:40
She's like, "You don't have to swim if you sing the national anthem." >> Wow. What a reinforcing. What an amazing thing. >> Mhm.
28:48
And so, yeah, I I sang the national anthem and then I like went home.
28:53
>> Is it the first time you ever sang in front of anybody?
28:55
>> No, but I did sing at school for the first time.
28:56
So, I think it was like, you know, that definitely fostered in that environment like I was learning that I love to sing and whatever.
29:01
I would love to know how quickly she figured out that that would be a really amazing way to reinforce what's special about you and take you out of the rat race of swimming carnival. >> Totally.
29:11
You know, I think it's a it's a it's a good example I think of like the kind of safety and protection that I felt from women that I haven't felt from men like you know always.
29:22
So during the songwriting process when we were writing she's the best.
29:26
I was like, "Oh, this has been like a constant in my life."
29:31
Like from day one, those are the people that have really like had my back, you know, me existing, I'm so comfortable and kind of like my happiest honestly when I'm existing in the orbit of like a woman, you know, >> and you I think about like [snorts] like a duet with Ariana or something like that or I think about um doing the idol with Lily Rose Depp or Sweat Tour with Charlie like >> or a video with Nicole.
29:55
>> Or a video with Nicole. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly.
29:56
It's like I I just am so so so comfortable in that world.
30:00
I like makes me think about getting ready for house parties and like I would I would get ready in like 5 minutes at home early and then go and just like watch the girls get ready and we would just like talk and hang out and whatever and it was always so much more fun than the parties cuz then I would show up to the parties and like the boys would be like homophobic and stuff like that and I was just like Um so yeah, I don't know.
30:20
I just like it was it was something that I really really just wanted to like honor and um I I I I knew immediately I was like I really want to lead with this, you know?
30:33
I'm like I know it's like not a 3minut pop song or 2 minute 30 pop song or whatever that like has like this crazy melodic thing that's super easy to get right away or whatever.
30:44
I was like I don't I don't care.
30:46
like this is something that comes so um like from so deep within me that I'm just like this is exactly what I want to do right now.
30:58
I don't know why but in that song specifically cuz I I like sort of wrote a little melody for it and stuff and I was like this feels too contrived for the for how heartfelt the message is.
31:08
I was like it needs to feel like it is just >> happening in this effortless way.
31:14
>> happening in this effortless way. like >> the idea of trying to >> place it melodically and again like you know my pop brain kicks into gear where I'm like oh it should be like symmetrical you know if we're going to do this the phrasing should be the same and whatever I was like I don't want to
31:29
deal with that on this song like it's going to make it feel like it's too >> produced or too you know what I mean like I just I wanted it to feel as natural as it was and so um it just kind of like came out that way and I was like yeah this is this is it >> but almost everybody who worked on the record touched that song in some capacity, didn't they? Or a lot of Or a lot of people did.
31:47
I think >> a lot of people did. Yeah. Yeah.
31:48
So, so everyone [clears throat] got with the program, which was even cooler because you'd imagine if you had that desire to at times pull yourself into more of a of a pop format, someone else would, too.
31:59
So, everyone understood what you were trying to achieve here.
32:00
The the chords are beautiful. The melody's beautiful.
32:04
You could actually, and this is not an insult, remove you off of it, and I'd be happy just grooving instrumental. >> It's gorgeous.
32:08
Like, it's so beautiful and so many layers like, you know, there's like gorgeous strings on it.
32:12
And then we got Charlie XX doing the chanty thing at the end which was a nice little nod to her from both me and George who's on the wanting to take that moment to like celebrate her you know um was really fun.
32:29
I think to know her is to be inspired by her.
32:31
Like there's there's no way that you can be around someone with that much like creative force and not just be like in awe.
32:40
You just said it perfectly.
32:43
To know her is to be inspired by her.
32:45
All that happened in the last two or three years more people got to know her. >> Totally.
32:50
>> You know, she's been that from day one. >> Yep. Yeah.
32:51
Which makes me so much more like fearless than I actually am.
32:58
>> How did you guys hold together on that tour and not just spiral off to Party Mars and never come back?
33:03
>> I mean, just with each other, I think, you know.
33:05
I think like one of the other reasons why that worked so >> you did spiral off to Party Mars at times, right? >> Oh, for sure. 100%. Yeah. Yeah.
33:12
[laughter] >> No, but I think like, you know, she and I were both sort of like nervous about touring cuz it's so intense and whatever.
33:19
>> And we've known each other for so long and we have the same manager and um Brandon, our manager, was like, "Well, what if you guys like did a thing together?"
33:25
And I just didn't really know that that was an option. I was like, "Wait, what? Yeah, sure."
33:28
Like that sounds incredible.
33:30
And then I remember, you know, I'm like very much I think the way that I grew up, I'm like be the goodest little gay boy in the world that you could possibly be.
33:40
Like I'm I'm quite um I think like polite and whatever, you know, all that stuff.
33:44
And um I remember I think it was maybe the second show and we went up on the riser thing.
33:52
So we're like however many feet above the crowd and Charlie looks at me and she goes, "I'm so drunk."
33:56
And I was like, "Wait, what? How are you doing this?" >> Sick. This is amazing.
34:02
And it just like I again like I think to just be around her is to feel this like >> I don't know.
34:10
There was like this levity to to all of it that it kind of changed the trajectory of the rest of the tour for me because even though I wasn't drunk sometimes that was like a little bit maybe, but it wasn't really even about that.
34:19
It was just about this like >> this freedom and this approach to to like life and work and whatever.
34:24
And I feel like she made me feel like a superhero version of myself, you know, which is amazing, but then also probably is like now why I made this album because there was this like version of myself that I think um I started to be like, well, wait a second.
34:43
Cuz I don't feel like that all the time.
34:46
>> You can't take it home. >> Yeah. I couldn't take it home.
34:47
I wish that I could >> or not.
34:50
Because when you take a home, >> that's when you spend 30 years doing drugs on your own, >> right? >> Yeah.
34:57
[snorts] >> You know, I mean, I've interviewed quite a few people who eventually drop it >> after a much longer amount of time.
35:04
>> And um they'll tell you that like a lot of that behavior occurs because they don't like facing the person they are when they're not the superhero version of themselves. >> Mhm.
35:14
>> So that's where the distraction by self-destruction kicks in, >> right? Okay.
35:17
So maybe it's not all bad. Maybe not all bad.
35:21
>> Plus, it's not like you're not partying on this record, >> right? >> Party in the bush. Party in the tree. >> Totally.
35:26
>> And again, like it's so important to me to like pay tribute to that side of my life.
35:30
>> Joy is an act of resistance.
35:33
>> I'm so happy that we're coming out of the AMC era of Nicole Kidman, which was iconic in itself, and we're now in the mother era of Nicole Kidman, if I may say. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, Adella. >> Yep. you. >> Yeah.
35:50
>> It's like pop music is like it's always been you. >> Yeah, totally.
35:54
I mean, she she's everything. Yeah. Like truly.
36:00
>> Come on, let's pay tribute. Go. Let's go.
36:02
From your through your filter, through the choice of our own filter.
36:04
You got her in a video, dude.
36:04
So, you were in a movie with her.
36:06
You know her, but also you understand why everyone's obsessed with her. So, what is it?
36:12
>> It's like I mean, it's an energetic thing.
36:13
I think you know when like somebody walks into a room.
36:17
Weirdly this is also Dual Lia.
36:19
She also has this but they walk in and I don't know if it's like a physical like statuesque thing or if it's like star power or if it's like their openness in the face and the I don't know what it is but it's like and obviously they're the most like famous people in the world but I toured with DA in 2016.
36:41
She opened for me, which is hilarious. And she it was the same.
36:43
Like I knew I was just like, "Oh, fuck." >> Yeah.
36:50
>> There's something about this girl like and so um >> Nicole's I think always I'm sure always had that.
36:56
And um it's just about kind of like praising it. She deserves it. You know what I mean?
37:01
Like what a what a queen.
37:02
And I also obviously she's Australian.
37:04
So it's like and Mulan Rouge was like one of my awakenings in life.
37:09
Like you talk about taste and and I remember that being like the weirdest movie that I had ever seen at the time.
37:14
I was probably like eight. >> Yeah.
37:16
>> Um >> and I I remember being just like spellbound by her in it.
37:19
And so I've I've loved her ever since.
37:24
>> When you started out doing this, when we when we first met, it was it was around Blue Neighborhood and um I think the EP had just come out >> and I don't know if it was one of the first interviews you did, but it felt like it to me.
37:35
You felt like you were holding on.
37:39
I don't want to give away.
37:42
I'm trying to find a balance.
37:42
And I would be fully embrace the pop star thing. >> Mhm.
37:51
>> You know, >> you remember being in sessions for that album and being like, it's too pop. It's too pop. I don't want to. It's too pop.
37:57
>> It was almost like you were afraid to let go into that space that you've suddenly become so um important in. >> Oh, thank you.
38:04
And two, so I wanted to ask you this and now's the time. When did that change?
38:09
When did you when did you decide that you know what, I kind of know who I am in this music space and I know what path I'm on and I'm going to I'm going to embrace it wholeheartedly.
38:21
I think in its fullest version probably before something to give each other in between the lockdowns the spending time at home spending time with my family whatever >> that stuff made me feel it reminded me of everything that I already kind of like have >> and it made me feel like bulletproof.
38:40
I was like, "Oh, none of this like matters in a way that's going to affect me in like the things that I really really need in my life, which is like love for my family."
38:51
And it made me like fearless kind of thing.
38:55
And so I think that that was really when I was like, "Okay, you know what?
38:59
I'm going to like I'm not afraid to like kind of make some noise and like take up some space."
39:04
cuz I always think that's sort of another like side effect probably of of growing up in the closet was just like not not wanting to take up too much space or bring too much attention to myself.
39:15
And um and so yeah, the idea of like my best friend Leelin and I, we always say like, "Oh, come out with your dick swinging."
39:25
Like, you know, the idea of coming out like that kind of with with something as like bombastic as Rush was very like super thrilling to me, you know, and it was kind of like the first time in my life where I was like, "Yeah, it."
39:37
Like, I'm going to try and do coro and I'm going to like just really really go for it.
39:41
Like um and that was really really fun.
39:44
It's so interesting how that album though has led you to this place and I guess the the question is has it made you more open and available to this thing that you seek do you think making this music has it made you better understand how to clear that pathway for a meaningful relationship in your life that thing that you've openly said on the record you're kind of searching for?
40:08
>> I think I think in the same way that like therapy has Yeah.
40:12
Yeah, I mean it's like such a cliche to talk about music like that, but um putting pen to paper, whether it's like journaling or talking to a therapist or whatever, like I do think kind of offloading these things um does make you feel lighter and kind of help you understand yourself a little bit.
40:29
Also, there's this weird thing I think with like being sort of perceived in the in the public in any way where it's almost like now that I've acknowledged it, I can move through the world in a more genuine way.
40:42
Like I feel like everyone's up to date, you know?
40:43
Like, >> don't you think it's the opposite?
40:46
Don't you think you're going to have people queuing around the around the block listening to La Boy wondering if they're La Boy and it's going to be, you know what I mean? Maybe. >> I don't know.
40:53
Hopefully that'll be cool.
40:54
[laughter] Um, but no, I mean like I I was one of the kind of like big moments of making the album was >> I was sitting in the pool with someone and it's like one of my friends and I was like damn I have not hooked up with anyone in like a really long time >> and he was like what Troy what about Rush?
41:14
And I was like, "Oh, wo, like I think the world might see a different version."
41:20
And and that like sort of disconnect made me actually feel really uncomfortable where I was like, "Oh, I kind of feel like I need to before I can maybe this is not true.
41:29
I don't know, but I should talk about this in therapy."
41:32
But before I can like move through my life in a way that feels more genuine, I need to kind of like acknowledge it or tell people about it or something like that and be like, "No, this is actually where I am right now." Yeah.
41:42
>> And now my narrative is like hopelessly single, looking for a boyfriend, whatever. Sure.
41:47
But at least like I'm up to date.
41:49
Like everyone's kind of current now, you know?
41:52
>> So what the is dating like then?
41:52
If that's like if that's the bat signal. >> Yeah. I don't know. We'll see.
41:57
Like I >> Do you like it? Is dating fun?
42:00
I mean, you're talking to someone who's been married for 27 years. Genuine question. >> Sometimes.
42:06
Yeah, sometimes it's really fun.
42:08
I like meeting new people and I like talking to people.
42:10
I think that um sometimes it's really bad.
42:14
>> What's a bad date like?
42:16
>> Like a job interview kind of vibe, you know, where it's just like a bit boring or something and you're just kind of going back and forth on things.
42:21
Um >> like I really value funny. >> Yeah. Yeah.
42:26
>> So I really want it to be fun and funny.
42:29
>> If they know who you are, do you prefer they're upfront about that? >> Um yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah.
42:34
Like I think the only time I ever get out about that is if someone has not been like truthful about it.
42:44
>> Like I I don't care if you don't know me and I don't care if you do.
42:46
Um >> I think the only thing that I care about is if you're like acting weird about it, >> you know?
42:55
>> Like >> Yeah, I've had that happen.
42:57
>> Have you gotten accustomed to it though?
42:59
I mean you are a really visible human being and I mean you work on screen as well.
43:02
um idol was problematic for a lot of people in a lot of different ways and whatever cool yada y and all the back all the stories about the production and this that and the third but it was everyone watched it. >> Mhm.
43:12
[clears throat] >> Everyone watched it.
43:12
I mean my association with that show >> is >> I made like two lifelong friends out of that show.
43:22
>> Lily Rose and Rachel Sennet.
43:24
>> Like those are my girls.
43:24
and having I mean >> going to the same place every day. >> Yeah.
43:31
>> Being with them, it was like high school.
43:33
Like I literally I was like, "Oh, this is like I have my two best friends and we're in high school together." It was that vibe.
43:36
And so I have such a like positive um memory of that whole time.
43:42
And again, another example, I think, of like feeling kind of invincible on the other side of something because I was like, "Oh, wow."
43:53
Um, I had such a good time through through this whole kind of like experience.
44:00
>> Um, that that I think also made me feel really emboldened uh to be like, okay, I'm going to like do what I want and do what feels right, you know?
44:09
>> Do you like the acting side of things? >> Yeah, I really do.
44:10
I I definitely want to do more of it. Yeah.
44:14
>> It's a very different discipline, though.
44:16
And you've I mean you talk about the person who wants to kind of hold on to the architecture of your music as much as you can and be involved in every aspect of it.
44:22
Sit next to you know engineers and producers and figure out how you want arrangements to go.
44:26
You can't do that on set.
44:27
Like you got to literally hand it to somebody.
44:28
You're watching on the couch with the rest of us.
44:31
>> That's sort of my issue with it.
44:31
I think is like I would love to maybe I need to like try producing something or something like that cuz I would love to I love every part of the process so much.
44:41
Um, like I grew up, you know, editing video and photo and um, I I still will sometimes like retouch things or design stuff myself, you know, like I really really love being super hands-on with everything.
44:57
>> So, showing up and doing my part and leaving is it's not satisfying.
45:02
>> It's not satisfying 100%. Yeah. >> Yeah. You're a process guy. I can tell. It's funny.
45:06
I was so um I swear I told you how amazing I'm sure everyone else did. amazing that ad was.
45:14
>> It is something that you have an eye that you have for that kind of stuff.
45:15
Is that your getting back to Gandalf, is that your seat on the elephant ship when you don't want to dance anymore or you want to take a break? Is that in a weird way?
45:25
>> Um, yeah, one of them.
45:25
I think, you know, like I think I definitely have ambitions of having a family and and stuff like that.
45:32
So, I think eventually I'll I'll want to do something else.
45:34
But I I really feel not that pressed about it because I I do get so much joy out of like every part of the process for all of these different things that I do.
45:48
>> And I as long as I feel like I'm utilizing my, you know, like creativity, I'm I'm really happy.
45:54
Like I think there's infinite versions of that, you know, whether I'm like writing the music for a play one day or something, you know, like something really challenging that's going to like that I really have to like sink my teeth into and it means that I just like commit to doing that for, you know, 6 months or something like that.
46:10
Uh like stepping like the public eye stuff is not really it's never been like the motivating factor for me.
46:18
I I love touring because I built the show and I'm super excited to show people the show and everything.
46:21
Um more so than necessarily like the performance itself. >> Yeah. Process. >> Yeah.
46:28
>> The beautiful thing is that uh and I and I say this purely as a friend like you can do all of that and have a family.
46:36
That's the beautiful thing.
46:37
>> Like they want you to be inspired and busy and doing cool cuz that's what they that's how they get exposed to it.
46:43
That's how they get inspired.
46:43
That's how they see what's possible. >> Yeah.
46:46
I think I just really want like at least when when I've got like babies, I want to take time off.
46:52
>> Yeah, definitely have to do that.
46:54
>> Yeah, because you won't get those years back.
46:56
But then once as soon as they can walk, put them on your hip and move. >> Yeah. Nice.
46:59
My older brother's got two kids and they I mean they've been to New York.
47:04
They It's like three and 8 months and they just they just go for it.
47:09
>> I mean, this is a a beautiful life that you're building for yourself, Troy.
47:11
This is a really beautiful life and it's it's not without its work and its challenges and and the things you've had to figure out.
47:18
I mean, going right back to those early days in Perth right through to now.
47:21
Um, what are you most proud of about yourself today, right now?
47:29
Um, I think I I guess like the um the spaces that and it almost felt like kind of unintentional but like the spaces that I've maybe helped create like the environment at my shows for example or um yeah like I think I think kind of just like creating a space where people like a younger version of me could have gone and and maybe had that moment that I had in Cape Town in like the nightclub or whatever where I'm like, "Oh, wow."
48:06
Like this is what it feels like to be like safe and whatever.
48:11
Hopefully I've, you know, like created that for for some people.
48:14
Um, that's probably like the thing.
48:18
I'm pulling off a very strong developing mullet. >> Thank you. Thank you.
48:26
What do you reckon of the ratty? >> It's getting there.
48:28
I mean, the thing >> long enough yet.
48:30
>> No, it it doesn't jump out at you, but it's definitely the makings of something special. >> Thanks.
48:35
>> I would say maybe the most outwardly Australian thing you've done in a long time is that haircut. Yeah. >> Nice. >> Right now. >> Oh yeah.
48:42
Well, I mean you Melbourne like I feel like Party in the Bush >> like you know >> that song sounds like Melbourne to me, you know.
48:52
Um, >> but also cuz it's the strongest your Australian accent's ever sounded on potty in the park.
48:56
Potty in the park, potty in the bush.
48:58
>> American manager says it sounds like I'm saying potty like and it's like about a dog going potty in the park, potty in the bush, potty under the bridge, potty at the restaurant.
49:08
>> I'm a New Zealander and it is shocking to me the first time I heard it cuz it's just so unapologetic. >> Party in the park. >> It's amazing. >> So funny. >> And with the mullet.
49:15
>> Well, what am I supposed to do? >> It's so AFL.
49:17
>> Like put on a American accent for it.
49:19
>> No, you have to be authentically yourself.
49:21
That's how I say those words.
49:22
>> But you have to admit that to some degree you've been somewhat of a of an international alien imp for a long time floating through one sort of pop room to another.
49:29
No one's quite, you know, you ask people where Troy Saban's from, they're like somewhere 300,000 light years away. No, no, no. He's from Perth. >> Yeah.
49:37
I think I I've toyed with the idea of trying to get like a cool sort of like Madonna accent, >> right?
49:44
Oh, so somewhere in between. >> Something Bronson. >> Yes. Yes. Good. Good example. >> Nicole.
49:49
Like Nicole, she can turn it on though. Really?
49:52
She's on the red carpet in Australia. >> Oh, okay. Nice.
49:55
Yeah, >> she knows how to slide back in.
49:58
>> I just think it's kind of like fab.
50:00
>> Like the random like it's like full Australian. It's like how are you? >> I'm like, wait, what?
50:04
Where did that come from?
50:05
But um [laughter] >> but I don't think I can do it. >> No. Party in the park. >> Party in the park.