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We are so attached to the idea of who we are, you know, whether it's designed by or what our parents always said about us.
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But sometimes I find I I would get so attached to that that then I would be afraid to let go because I don't want to lose me. I don't want to lose me. I'm me. I know me.
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If I want to lose me, do I still love me?
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The best-selling author and host of the number one health and wellness podcast On Purpose with Jay Shetty Everyone, welcome back to On Purpose, the number one health podcast in the world.
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Thanks to each and every one of you that come back every week to listen, learn, and grow.
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Now, you know that one of my favorite ways to learn is by learning people's stories, by diving into their hearts, their minds, their their souls if they're willing to share that, and try and understand what we can learn, what we can hear, what we don't understand.
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Maybe there's a part of their journey that we didn't know enough about, and I found stories become a huge compass for me in my life.
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And that's why I try and share those with you here.
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And today's guest is someone that I've actually wanted to talk to for a long, long time.
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I would say I've been probably trying to book this podcast for like 2 years in the making.
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So, I'm very, very excited this evening.
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And just so you know, he's had a crazy busy day. It is officially 7:45 p. m.
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on a Monday night when we're recording this in New York City.
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I'm talking about the one and only, someone who needs no introduction, Trevor Noah.
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Trevor, thank you so much for doing this.
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Thank you very much, Jay.
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I'm very grateful to have you in the in the seat, finally. It's good.
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I'm I'm grateful to be talking to you in person.
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Most of the time I see you, I'm watching a clip of yours online. So, this is nice.
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No, I really appreciate this.
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And my interview with you that we did when I was out talking about Calm was my favorite interview from that whole experience.
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Because I felt that the questions you asked me were the most reflective. They were pushing me.
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They were challenging me in a healthy way.
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And I was just like, oh, well, you know, I want to sit down more and have more of those conversations with you.
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So, anyway, but I I want to start with you but you know, your book Born a Crime is a brilliant brilliant book and I don't want to go through the whole book.
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I'd love for people to read it if they haven't, but I guess what I'm fascinated by is human experiences when we were children or early on in our lives that shaped us today.
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And I know you've reflected on that a lot, but now when you reflect on it today, what are some of the examples of human experiences that you had that you think shaped who you are today?
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What was one of the earliest memories, maybe?
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My mom is a Bible scholar.
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And she reads the Bible every day.
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Not all of it, but she she moves through it every single day.
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What I found fascinating is that she's been reading the same book for decades now.
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And every day she'll send me an email or a message about a scripture and how it pertains to her life as she sees it now, in this moment, how it has been, and how she thinks it will be.
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And what I found particularly fascinating about that is the fact that it's the same book and yet it keeps meaning so many different things to her.
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The same story, but it keeps meaning so many different things.
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And I sometimes think about my life in that way.
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Is depending on where I am, depending on the moment, depending on where I've been and where I'm going, the same experience reveals a different parts of me.
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The same experience reveals why I am who I am or why I'm doing what I'm doing or why I even have an idea of who I am or why I am.
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And so, recently, maybe, since you know, you're asking me what is one of these things, what is something, I think back to how not having shaped how I see the world, shaped how I move in the world.
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You know, not having food sometimes, not having money sometimes, not even having luxury items sometimes, you know, whether it be clothing or cars, whatever it may be.
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But but recently I've I've found myself going, man, so much of how you define yourself is through the lens of having or not having, particularly because of how you grew up.
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And so it's it's not about having or not having now, but it's in the small things, you know, it's like how I order food or why I order the food that I do in the way that I do is partially because of having or not having.
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And so I would say that's maybe one of the biggest experiences that I find has Yeah, has recently been like just shining a light on on on how I grew up.
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Yeah, that's fascinating.
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I've often reflected on something similar and I've called it gifts or gaps.
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The having or not having. Interesting.
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So certain gifts that I had growing up, I handed to me by my parents or by my family. Oh, wow. Okay. Right?
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And then what were the gaps? Well, there were gaps.
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Like there were things that you didn't have.
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So whether that would be a present parent or a I didn't have the latest Nike sneakers or Nike shoes as we would call them Call them Nike shoes. Say it like that. Say it like that. Call them Nike. Say it like that. Yeah, Nike.
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beat Americans, you sound like an idiot. Exactly. Nike and Adidas.
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As I say, Adidas not Adidas.
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Uh and and so those kind of gaps and obviously those are very crude examples, but and and do you find yourself editing those now?
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Like do you find yourself saying, "Okay, I didn't have this and therefore I have this behavior.
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I did have this and therefore I have this behavior."
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Do you feel like your behavior today wants an upgrade because of your new lifestyle or a downgrade or you kind of think, "No, I'm happy living with the same beliefs and values and systems that I had from back then."
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All I'm constantly trying to do is acknowledge them. Mhm.
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I try my best to eliminate good or bad. I really do.
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And the reason I do that is not because you know, I I exist in a in a spiritual world.
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Although I I think we all do, but I'm not because of that.
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I think of it more because I realize everything and everyone is going to have a good or bad, you know?
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So I have yet to meet a person who doesn't think some parts of their childhood were tough. Yes.
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But now it's when we compare the toughness that that people then say, "Oh, actually I didn't have a tough. You had a tough."
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And and you know, like people will say to me, "Oh man, you grew up so poor in South Africa."
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And you know, growing up in the township and whatever.
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And I would say to them, "I didn't feel like this cuz I would see, for instance, the slums in India." Mhm. I go like, "Man, yo."
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And and and maybe I was lucky, funny enough, because in South Africa we had news that was was global.
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And because it was it was so um I think it was so broad, I had an awareness.
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So I didn't think what I was living through was the worst possible thing. Yes.
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But now relative to how many other people live, they've put me down at the bottom of a list. Yes. Yes. Yes.
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And and yeah, and so I I I often don't think of it as good or bad.
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I I just try and go oh, that happened, that didn't happen.
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Because of that, I adapted accordingly.
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You know, so you know, there's there's a lot of rainfall.
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So then this plant will start growing in that way.
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There isn't as much rainfall, the plant will grow another way. Is it good or is it bad?
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That's often times something that's subjective because of who runs the world or who tells us how the world should be or isn't or you you you get what I'm saying? Yeah, no.
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And and I love that you've simplified it as awareness because that awareness or acknowledgement, as you said I try.
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of of keeping it that way is often quite sacred to be able to say, "No, I'm just observing. I'm just seeing." Yeah. But it's hard. Yeah, it's hard.
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And you reminded me, I was I was 9 years old when I first visited India.
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I was born and raised in London, but my my mom I was actually was born and raised in Yemen, and my father was born and raised in India.
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But my parents are Indian. What part of India?
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Uh my father was from Mangaluru, which is like southern India, and then my mother is from Gujarat, which is northern India.
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But she was born and raised in Yemen, so she moved to London when she was 16. Mhm.
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But when I went to India for the first time when I was 9 years old, I remember we were in a car, and we were not well-off, so we weren't staying in a fancy hotel or whatever, but we had enough money to visit, which is significant for the air flight.
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And I remember going in this car, and you just sparked this, and I remember like stopping at a traffic light, and just looking out, and I saw all these slums, and I mean, I'd never seen something like that in London.
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And I saw these little legs poking out of like a barrel of a trash can.
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And and I was just And the legs looked little, like of someone my age, like around And And then slowly I saw the whole her whole body come out, and it was this girl, and she didn't have any hands.
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And she'd just been like trying to scrape the bottom I remember being 9 years old, and she was probably like maybe the same age, maybe a little less, like And I remember just looking at her and feeling like totally helpless, because I was in a car on the other side of the highway, and I can't go and help her.
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I want to, but I also don't know what help means as a 9-year-old.
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And it was one of those experiences that, you know, and then I went back, I remember to my hotel, and I remember hearing like someone was arguing about not enough menu options on the buffet.
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And it was just It was like as a night It was like connecting the dots, as you're saying, of like you know, when you see your experience, and then you see someone else's experience.
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Have Have you found that what you did go through, that you ever needed to process it or heal it, or because you had that perspective since day one, that that you never needed that, that it was just like no this is my experience and I'm used to it or whatever were there moments of where you had to revisit and I work on healing every day. Mhm.
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You know, I grew up in a world where we almost didn't have the time nor the resources to heal. Mhm.
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And I think for a long time I was very comfortable in accepting that as just being my world. Oh, that happened. All right.
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You know, I shrug it off and you keep on moving. Wow.
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Yeah, you you shrug it off. That happened.
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That happened to you, you know, domestic abuse.
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Okay, poverty, whatever it may be, violence in the community or at home, whatever. Yeah, that happens. You keep it moving.
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You shrug it off because it is happening.
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And funny enough, you can grow up and I knew I grew up in a world where I created this narrative in my head that it was not bad because it was happening to everyone. Mhm. Wow.
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And so Now, most of my life, you know, is spent acknowledging that it was bad.
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And then spending a lot of time acknowledging how the bad created coping mechanisms or tools that I then use in my life every single day and how I can accept those parts of myself whilst also not glorifying the things that happened. Mhm.
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Which is sometimes I I I I fight with a lot of people when they do this.
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I I I fight with all my friends, by the way.
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I hate Friends from back home? Anyone. Anyone.
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I fight with my friends with friends from back I fight with anyone, Jay. Anyone.
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I'm never grateful for suffering.
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I'm never grateful for pain.
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I'm never I'm not grateful for those things. Mhm.
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What I work to be grateful for is the resiliency that may exist in my family and our ability to adapt.
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But I'm not going to be grateful for a horrible thing that happened to me or the people in my life Yes.
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because we learned how to deal with it. Yeah.
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You know, I would like to live in a world where my child doesn't have to develop that tool.
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Let them develop another tool.
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Yeah, let them let their tool be I had to figure out, uh, you know, how to feel good about myself when I couldn't get as many Tik Tok followers as I wanted.
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Let that Fine, let that be their tool.
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But I I I And I understand the, you know, the esoteric idea.
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I understand what people are saying sometimes.
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But I I'm I'm almost allergic to it because I think sometimes what it does is it justifies what people are going through or it justifies the idea that we we we don't need to do more or people aren't going through something bad because it it creates the best. It makes diamonds.
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It makes It can create diamonds.
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And I'm like, "Yeah, but what it can also do is pulverize a lot of people into dust." Yeah.
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You know, and so diamonds are the exception.
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I I'm often careful to think about, you know, I'm sure I'm sure you understand what I mean.
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Yeah, I mean, hearing you, actually, what I find is that it at least what I took away from that is that it's the same thought, it's just a deeper level of the same thought.
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Like it's with more clarity.
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Like it's like I think sometimes we hear that idea of be grateful for everything or be grateful for the suffering.
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And if you don't really think that through, you can try and artificially put that band-aid Maybe that's Yeah.
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Yeah, and and you just kind of try and like, "Oh, yeah, put the band-aid on.
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Like put the band-aid on of gratitude, gratitude."
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But it's like when you internalize then you process it, that's when you can what you're doing, which is like clearly sectioning it off and saying, "I'm not grateful for the act of violence or I'm not grateful for the suffering as you said, but I can be grateful for the quality that I resilience, etc.
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, that helped me push through.
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But I think that's To me, that's just a deeper, more refined thought out of practicing gratitude almost.
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Do you think like I've always I've always wanted to know as a like, you know, as a monk, are you forced to just be grateful for everything regardless of of what it is?
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No, I I think what you're saying is far more aligned with what I would think.
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Like as in as in I think that there's two parts, right?
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One is what the philosophy tries to share or or state, and then it's what you learn in the practice of that philosophy.
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So, if you try and be grateful, like I just had this this literally just happened, hence I'm talking about it.
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I just had a double inguinal hernia surgery.
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Uh which means that both my hernias, which are on either side of my groin, had to had to have incisions in my stomach and a mesh put in there.
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It's not life-threatening, but it's massively inconvenient.
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And I was I didn't work for 3 weeks.
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This is my first week back at work.
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And I'm feeling much The funniest is when you you try and you have like a sneeze or a cough the first time. Have you had this?
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Yeah, and then you don't You know what's funny?
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The funniest when it happens and the first time you don't realize how painful it would be, and now your body doesn't allow you to cough or sneeze or But it's amaz- It's almost funny to what we're talking about.
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This is what I mean, right?
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It is amazing how quickly your body responds to trauma or pain. Yes.
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It's amazing at how quickly it works to protect you from it.
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Cuz if I said to you, "Don't sneeze or don't cough for 3 weeks," it's impossible. Yeah.
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But one cough and one sneeze when you've had your hernia or any surgery that's abdominal, your body goes, "I never want to experience that again." Never.
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And then you don't know You know exactly what you know exactly what I mean.
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I know exactly what you mean.
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For the first I was scared that I was going to pop my hernia again. So, I was scared. Yeah. Yeah.
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And so, I'm walking around with a pillow like halfway through the day.
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My wife's like, "What are you doing?"
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I'm like, "I might cough."
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And she's laughing at me.
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I'm like, "You can't make me laugh either."
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Like I was like I couldn't watch comedy for 3 weeks cuz you can't laugh. It hurts so much.
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But the reason I brought that up was like, "Am I grateful I got a hernia?" No.
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Like why would I be grateful that I've been working out? I eat healthy.
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I'm like, you know, I'm very I'm a mindful individual, but I ended up with this from whatever from working out and everything.
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I'm not grateful for the hernia, but I'm grateful for the journey I chose to take during the experience that has helped me have new appreciation.
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And so I I think the point of at least I mean going to what you suggested like how would a monk think about gratitude?
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I don't think any quality or value was embodied by force or by prescription without okay reflection. Okay. If that makes sense.
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Yeah, that does make sense.
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Anything without reflection is practically yeah, not the right way to Right. That makes sense. No, I I I like that.
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I really do fight with a lot of people about this.
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And no, and I you know, I obviously when I say fight I mean that's how we use it in South Africa.
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Funny enough in India as well. I'm sure you know this.
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When I was in India I went recently and what I loved is how people argue about everything.
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And like one of the guys who was there is a friend of mine now and you know, we're arguing back and forth.
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We're arguing and then like his friend steps in and he's like, "Trevor, he's like, I'm so sorry, Trevor. Please whip I apologize.
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You know, he's not fighting with you.
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This is how we do it in India."
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And I'm like, "Oh, I was like, this is amazing.
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I want to live in this country." Yeah. Let's let's get into it.
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But this is what I argue with people about sometimes where I say yeah, I don't have to be grateful for it.
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Cuz I often say and maybe I'm maybe I'm wrong here. It's how I see it.
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I have found for myself and maybe for others times we are so attached to the idea of who we are, the story that we've told ourselves, the story that we continue to tell ourselves, who we are, who we wish to be, who we should be.
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You know, whether it's designed by our what our parents always said about us.
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You're such a quiet child.
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You're such a lovely person. You're so kind. You're so polite.
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And you go that I am I should be then.
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I you know, whatever it may be.
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But sometimes I find I I get so attached to that that then I would be afraid to let go of the things that may be holding me back because I don't want to lose me.
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Because who is me if I don't have the pain?
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Who is me if I don't have the trauma?
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Who is me if I don't have the the mistrust? I don't want to lose me. I'm me. I know me. What if I'm not me? I love me.
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And if I want to lose me, do I still love me?
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And it it I that's what I find the thing is.
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And so, what I found helps me, you know, and I'll say to some of my friends is I go I do not need to live my life believing that I would not be me or I do not love me if I wish for these things to not happen.
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But I rather go I would have learned something else.
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So, I learned a different part of my body.
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I learned how to work through pain.
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I learned how to move differently because of a hernia. Fine.
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I'm grateful that I can learn.
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I'm grateful that I can recover.
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I'm grateful that maybe I even learned how to rest a little bit. Take some time off. Slow down, Jay.
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But I also sit with that and go But if I didn't have that hernia, if I didn't have that trauma as a child I would have had the opportunity to learn something else.
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So, maybe my tool wouldn't have been used on this, it would have been used on something else.
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And that doesn't diminish me or or who I think I am.
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It just allows me to almost exist infinitely and go well, then I can try to be whatever me exists.
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You know, and you it's like skin. It's like hair.
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It's like we're always losing us I is what I think. Yeah.
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Yeah, I mean the cells in our bodies are changing all the time.
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I'm always trying that and it's scary.
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That's yeah, it's scary because I think humans look for certainty as safety and security and stability.
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But I was going to ask you that like what you started to touch on there which I which I'm which I love is like identity, belonging.
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These are the things that you talk about so much in your past as well.
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And what you're basically saying is that well, if we're open to our identity changing and we're open to our home changing.
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I mean, do you still feel attached to a sense of home?
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Like what is home to you today?
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Like how would you how do you think about the word home?
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For me, the true definition of the word home is familiar. Mhm. Of the family.
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It's a repeated interaction.
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That's all home is to me. Mhm.
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You know, the reason you call it my home is because you go back to it every single day. Mhm.
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Uh if somebody flipped all the furniture in the house every day, you'd find you wouldn't it you'd say it doesn't feel like home. Yeah. But it is your home. Yes.
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You know, I I I think Yeah. Yeah, exactly. My friends are my home.
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The languages, you know, I speak are my home.
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The food I eat in South Africa is my home.
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But my home starts to grow. It starts to change.
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You know, I I said this to a friend of mine when I got back from India.
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I said, "Man, it felt like home."
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And he was like, "What do you India?"
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I said, "It's crazy, but it felt like home." Wow.
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You know, there were there were parts of Delhi where I was like, "This feels like home."
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You know, there were parts of Bangalore Bengaluru where I was like, "This feels like home." Wow. know what I mean? It's like Yeah.
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And people like, "What How can it feel like home?"
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I was like, "Well, maybe cuz part of it is reminiscent, you know, it reminds me of South Africa.
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We have an Indian population. It's huge.
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One of the biggest in the world.
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We We have Indian culture.
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We But also, it's just it's it feels familiar. It feels like home.
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And so for me, that's that's what home means is is is a sense of the familiar.
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You know, you can even experience randomly if you travel a lot in a hotel that you always frequent, it feels like home. Yeah.
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So, that's what, you know, that's what home means for me. Yeah.
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It's just that, you know, And you feel that in New York, too, when you're here?
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Like you find that you have that because of that familiarity. Yeah.
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You feel like I always see you and I always it seems to me like you're always home. I don't know why.
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That's that's a nice thing for you to say.
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Genuinely, it always seems like I never feel like you you're uncomfortable.
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I never feel like you, but I I know if that's just what you put out.
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No, I I I I would it's I was going to define it now as share it's contextually sharing now, but I my definition of home have has always been where I feel I'm living my purpose. Oh.
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So, that's always been my purpose.
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So, and I genuinely feel like that where I could wake up and be in another city or another country or another seat and as long as I'm this is my like I feel this is I'm doing my purpose tonight with you and that's why I'm here. I I understand.
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So, how would you cuz I I I can try to understand but what what would you say your you feel your purpose is?
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So, my purpose is to help other people find their purpose. Okay.
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And to me my purpose is to be a vessel of being able to expose people to a number of different ideas, insights, paths, stories, walks of life so that they can find theirs.
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I don't think everyone's purpose looks like mine.
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I don't think everyone's path looks like mine because I think one of the best things I got when I was a kid and again it goes back to my childhood experiences.
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My dad was really worried that I didn't read enough.
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And I would never be interested in reading fiction books at school.
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So, we'd get the fiction books like Goosebumps and then later on Harry Potter and all these books and I would never read them and I wouldn't have any interest in them.
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So, my dad was worried and my mom was worried that this kid's not going to read.
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And now I was about 13 going on 14 and I still wasn't reading a lot and so my dad started giving me biographies and autobiographies.
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And so I read like by the time I was 16 I'd read Malcolm X, Martin Luther King, I was also reading like David Beckham and Dwayne "The Rock" Johnson because I was a massive soccer football fan.
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And so I started just like collecting all these stories and then as I told you when I said on your show like I met a monk when I was 18 and that was the story that my purpose felt connected to. Got it.
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And so now I feel I'm like, well, someone's going to I to Trevor's story and feel far more connected. Interesting.
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And that may spark this kid out there to say, "Hey, maybe that's the kind of direction I want to go in."
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I feel like today we're we're exposed to the same people online and on TV and streaming.
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And we're also exposed to the same parts of them. That's true.
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And my hope is that this podcast, even if you're seeing someone who's famous and popular like yourself, hopefully people get a deeper insight into someone famous and popular or they get to meet someone random who's not famous and popular, but is interesting.
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So, anyway, that's that's my purpose. Okay. Wow.
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So, I feel like if I'm doing that in a city in a country, I'm I'm home.
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And it's because one of the famous scholars in your time and your mother being a scriptural scholar and like such a avid reader, uh I never met this scholar, but my monk teachers would often quote him.
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And he said that the only place higher than like the spiritual realm, uh and it would be poetry, but also, you know, literal as well, that the only place higher than being in heaven or the spiritual realm is a place you live your purpose.
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And I And that idea always like connected with me because then I was like, "Oh, so I could be in the middle of chaos, but still feel at home."
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And so, it gives me a sense of comfort and you know, that's what keeps me going when the day is tough, when things are going whatever they are.
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It's It's something that comforts me and it works for me.
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That's a really great purpose to have because I mean, there's always people to help.
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There are always journeys waiting to be embarked upon. That's Yeah. Yeah. And And there's no Yeah.
24:31
And And it's And it's free, but with you I see the one thing the thread that I've heard in you, which I really appreciated, is like literally three times you've responded, you've said, "My friends. My friends.
24:40
I was talking to my friend."
24:42
Like this person talks a lot to their friends.
24:44
Which Which is really beautiful because you're thinking, "Wow, like you're a busy person. You're back-to-back."
24:50
I mean, I remember I was in I think we were both speaking at at Sharjah Book Festival. You landed one night.
24:57
I messaged you and I said, "Trevor, let's do breakfast."
24:59
You're like, "Dude, I leave."
25:02
I was gone in there for 8 hours, you were there for like 6 or 4.
25:04
And I was like, I thought I was there for not enough to like I was there for 8 hours and you were like, "Dude, I'm I'm literally leaving tonight."
25:12
And so, you're a busy person, but in this conversation, so many times you said friends, friends, friends, friends, friends.
25:16
Like uh yeah, like how A, who are the friends?
25:20
What are you talking to them about?
25:22
Like, how what's your consistency?
25:23
I'm I'm fascinated by that because So, who are the friends?
25:27
Predominantly, my friends are from South Africa.
25:29
Um friends I met doing different things.
25:32
All all organic meetings which um I'm a sucker for.
25:37
I'm terrible at making friends, partially because I I don't trust people easily.
25:42
I exist in a world where I can be friendly with many people, but you know, it takes me a while to accept that this person is actually a part of my life. Right.
25:51
And I think for a long time it it was because and still is sometimes because A, I have an idea of putting something on that person where I may need them means that they may disappoint me.
26:06
And then on the other side of it, them needing me means I could be in the position to disappoint them.
26:11
You know, and and and so as we learn people, I find we learn what they can and cannot do, we learn who they are or are not, and it's always situational for me.
26:23
You know, that's that's when I'll call you like a friend is that I know how you are in most situations.
26:31
Yeah, it's good definition.
26:32
that that that for me is the definition of a friend.
26:34
So, you know, I can be we use it loosely, obviously, but you know, I can be friends with you and we always meet for lunch and always meet for but but then I only know you in in one way.
26:44
My friends, I start to be able to I almost almost store in a vault in my mind.
26:52
I can say for a fact if we're friends, if Jay was here, this would bother him. He would like that.
26:57
He would probably say this and that's why he would act this way. Yeah.
27:05
And that's you know, that's that's how I think of my friends. Yeah.
27:09
So, they've been a a major part of making me feel at home.
27:13
You know, my my my job, stand-up comedy is a really lonely career.
27:17
You know, and I remember talking to a comedian.
27:19
It was a few weeks ago talking about how there was like a period where a lot of stand-up comedians were committing suicide, you know, and would be you'd hear this devastating story of a comedian that everyone loved.
27:30
They were in a hotel room and then they committed suicide.
27:35
And I was petrified because I I always think it can happen to me.
27:39
You know, I I I go that if that happened to them, why did it happen?
27:43
How did If I don't understand, then what is it?
27:46
Another comedian, another comedian, another comedian, another comedian.
27:50
I think being a stand-up comedian is a is a really lonely job in that we're traveling often times alone. We don't have a band.
27:56
We don't have backup dancers.
27:58
We don't we don't we don't travel with Can you imagine you had your backup dancers?
28:02
And yet every night you're going out there and you're making people laugh.
28:06
You're having fun with them.
28:07
They come with their families.
28:09
They come with their friends.
28:09
They come with their loved ones. You leave alone.
28:14
And and it's this constant exchange of energy and what I learned was my my friends became that hub.
28:21
My friends became my recharge.
28:23
My friends became the couch I could lie on and say nothing or everything. Yeah.
28:28
And thanks partly to technology, I've been able to keep in touch with them.
28:33
There's no there's no catching up for us.
28:37
It's literally a running we've got a WhatsApp thread that is now I'm going to say 15 years old. Yeah.
28:46
Like literally I can go back and search something from maybe 10 years ago sometimes.
28:50
I can go back on the WhatsApp there and go what happened on and I can search it and I can find it.
28:53
That's how long we've had the same group and the same friends and the same everything.
28:58
And obviously it's grown over time.
29:00
But that core has kept me, you know?
29:00
I always think did you end up reading Harry Potter? I didn't ever read it.
29:06
I've watched all the movies. Yeah, I never read it.
29:07
Yeah, I watched all the movies.
29:09
So I know all the I'm a big fan actually of the movies.
29:11
So I feel like your friends in life are your Horcruxes. Oh, interesting. Okay. You know?
29:18
I think as people what we do is we break ourselves into parts.
29:25
And whenever we meet people, we give them a part of ourselves.
29:30
And some people we give more than we give others.
29:32
But we give everyone a different part of ourselves.
29:33
No one in your life has the same part that another person has.
29:38
They may seem similar, but they're not.
29:40
Your mother and father hold different parts of you.
29:42
Your uncles, your cousins, your brothers, your sisters, your friends, whoever it is.
29:45
They all hold a different parts of you.
29:49
And the same way Voldemort could use that to come back to life, I feel like we can use that Wow. back to life. Wow. what I mean?
29:56
Yeah, you watched a different movie. I read the book.
29:59
Yeah, you read the the book, my friend. That's what it is.
30:01
That's what you missed in the movie. I read the book.
30:02
Yeah, and so I always think that as I I I man, sometimes I can be at my worst.
30:07
I can be Sometimes I can be lost. Really, Jay.
30:11
There'll be times when I'll be like, man, what am I doing?
30:12
Or where am I I'm stressed. I'm tired. I'm burnt out.
30:15
I I feel lost and I can call a friend and no joke, they can say to me well, the Trevor I know you know, and and I love that they say that.
30:25
They don't say this is who you are or not.
30:26
They go the Trevor I know found his joy here. Yeah.
30:29
Hey, you know, I've noticed that you're always happiest when you do it this way. Yeah.
30:33
Hey, I've noticed that, you know, you stress more when you're in this Hey, and I go man, I I didn't know that about myself or I didn't hold myself that way cuz I'm always experiencing all of me still through my lens. But thank you. You freed me. You encouraged me. You held me. Um you loved me. Mhm.
30:55
And what what then happens is I start to find what I need to get back to my purpose, to my passion, to whatever drives me and and that's why my friends are a big part of that.
31:09
That is That is the core of my world. Yeah.
31:13
And and it's funny my mom even used to say that to me when I was growing up.
31:19
You know, it's at a certain age she said to me she'd say to me, "My friend."
31:21
You know, I'd be like, "I'm not your friend."
31:24
I'd be like, "I'm You're my mom."
31:25
And my mom would say, "Just because I'm your mom doesn't mean I'm your friend."
31:27
She said there are many mothers out there that aren't friends with their child. Yeah.
31:31
And she said, "I'm your mother and I will always love you as your mother, but you are becoming my friend." Wow. And that stuck with me.
31:39
I realized that friendship is a choice.
31:41
Every other relation we have isn't.
31:46
And so even your your relatives can become your friends or may not be your friends.
31:50
And I think understanding that illuminates a lot of how you interact with people in the world. Yeah.
31:56
I I I really resonate with what I mean everything you said, but one of the things that stood out was that kind of performance loneliness. Mhm.
32:05
And the my my work mainly started with coaching and working with people and I and I work with a lot of musicians and people who tour and travel, not comedians, but but artists and you know, they're performing to like 100,000 people and 80,000 people and then they would always talk to me about this.
32:19
And I didn't I didn't really have a empathetic experience of it.
32:22
I I could understand it theoretically. Yeah.
32:27
And then because most of the events I used to speak at were like corporate events or like a business event or things like that.
32:32
And then a few years ago when I did my first ever event with my audience and it was in LA people who came because they followed my work not because of anything else.
32:41
There was only about 2,000 people in the audience and I finished the event and I got into the car and it hit me and I was like, "Oh, like this is chemical.
32:51
This is definitely chemical cuz you just had thousands of people shouting your name and like loving everything you say and all this validation and everything else."
32:59
As what you were saying when you were coming like the dopamine and the everything. Yes.
33:04
And then all of a sudden I was like, "Wait a minute, this feels weird.
33:06
Like why do I feel like, you know, a a sense of loneliness?"
33:10
And it was really interesting cuz I felt like that pretty much the whole And I felt like calling someone. Yes.
33:14
And I couldn't because in London it was too early.
33:16
None of my friends would be awake.
33:19
And so they're 8 hours ahead cuz I'm in LA and I'm going, "I've got to wait another hour for my friend to wake up, 2 hours.
33:25
I'm not going to wake him up in the middle of the night."
33:27
So I'm waiting there and then all my friends in LA were just at the event so I just saw them and so they're probably like going home and it was a weeknight and so maybe they And I'm like, "I don't want to And then I get home and my wife had organized a surprise party for me with all my best friends, like closest friends in LA. Wow.
33:44
And it was like a relief.
33:44
It wasn't even a celebration.
33:47
I was like, there was a sense of relief.
33:49
I was like, "Oh, thank god cuz I don't know what I would I don't know what I would have done tonight, man.
33:54
Like, you know, I understand why people turn to drugs.
33:55
I understand why people turn to I understand like it was the first time I was like, Because you Yeah, you need to numb it.
34:03
Yeah, you need to numb it because you just don't know what to do with that feeling. Mhm.
34:06
And that was the first time I'd felt that way and I can't imagine as you're saying for someone who's on tour and traveling every night.
34:12
My drug, as I said to you, my drug was chocolates.
34:15
Oh, I love chocolate, too.
34:15
That was like my I I couldn't It's like my team knew, my people knew.
34:19
It's like I'd do the show and immediately and you probably relate to this more because, you know, coming from the UK.
34:24
In America, they don't really do it.
34:25
In South Africa, our petrol stations, our gas petrol right?
34:31
They have amazing stores attached to them.
34:34
Like here, every gas station looks like it's already been robbed.
34:35
You don't want to pour gas.
34:37
I don't like it it looks terrible. They all look abandoned.
34:41
You know what yeah, they all look like a ghost town.
34:44
Whereas where we're from it's like, oh, you go and you buy a pie, you buy some you buy a few drinks. Exactly.
34:47
It's like, oh, this is life.
34:50
You can get some groceries on the way.
34:51
It's a very normal concept.
34:53
And that would be me after every show, I would drive, there would be the silence, I couldn't listen to music, I couldn't my mind would just be like I could hear everybody, but they were gone.
35:05
And then I would go in and then I would buy chocolate would be my thing.
35:07
I it it it immediately and then I I you know, over the years I would read and I had started learning that like, you know, chocolate, the dopamine, the sugar, all of these things.
35:14
I was I was correcting a chemical thing without realizing it. Correct.
35:18
Because it is a it is a shock on your body. Everyone, nothing. Yeah.
35:23
It's it's so fascinating that that that experience and and I'm sure people have that in different ways in their life.
35:29
Like you don't have to be a performer to thousands of people to experience that.
35:33
I think people experience that in lots of different ways.
35:34
It's beautiful that you've been able to continue this 10-year WhatsApp chat.
35:40
Like that's, you know, that's like a brilliant achievement.
35:42
How how did you do in such a way that when you became unrelatable to people?
35:45
Like how is that affected your friendships, your life, your relationships?
35:50
Because at one point I'm guessing you know, when when you come to America, you crush on the Daily Show, things are going great.
35:57
You know, Times 100 most influential people.
36:00
Like the crushing took some time, but yeah, okay. No, no, of course. No, no, no.
36:03
No, it took some I mean, it took some time.
36:05
No, it's like it it actually goes into your goes into your question.
36:09
No, no, carry on, carry on, yeah.
36:09
And and I just think that there's an interesting thing about being so grounded and like I've I'm enjoying this conversation. It's it's fun.
36:16
We're like just having a real conversation, but at the same time to a lot of people externally you can start becoming more unrelatable.
36:23
So, what's interesting is the reason I the reason I put it in The reason I say the crushing wasn't instant.
36:29
Um when you're on a journey, people often times will remember the beginning of the journey, and they will define the journey by the way it currently is or how it ended. Mhm. You know.
36:43
You lived a good life because of how your life ended.
36:45
If somebody is you know, really poor for 80 years, then they win the lottery at 80, and then they buy their family stuff, and they have a good People are like, "Man, it was tough but he had a good life, you know?" Yeah. Wow. though? Did they though?
36:58
It's more like, "Oh, we remember we that that ending is is is what we often remember." Mhm.
37:02
And to your point of of relatable, my journey was really interesting, particularly in America, because for many months, maybe even a year and a bit, I was hated, you know, by many people.
37:17
Don't get me wrong, there were many people who loved me, but it was such a visceral, understandable, but still visceral response to me as a concept. Mhm. "Who are you? How dare you? You on a show?
37:27
What are we" You know, and you're trying to establish Imagine trying to meet people for the first time, but they have an idea of you, and they've already decided what the idea of you is. Oh, gosh. Yeah.
37:37
And so, you you you can't even relate or make yourself relatable to them.
37:43
And then overnight, all of a sudden people go, "Oh, you're crushing it."
37:47
It's a It's a It's a really weird space to be in, because it's it's terrible, and then it's not, but your brain doesn't shift that quickly.
37:54
I remember learning once that the human brain and and the human body aren't necessarily always on the same page.
38:04
If you're running from danger, if there's if there's a threat, and you run from the danger, even when the danger subsides, your body's still in the danger. Yeah.
38:14
I think I think they talk about something similar in the book of The Body Keeps the Score, but Yeah, great book. Your body's still there.
38:19
And your mind goes, "Ha, ha, Oh, okay, I'm done."
38:21
Your body's like, "Whoa, heart pumping, you know, veins throbbing."
38:25
Everything is still happening.
38:28
And and you know, that that was part of my experience.
38:31
But what was interesting was to your point of relatable, I didn't even have a moment to exist in in relatable.
38:36
It was stranger, you know, don't like different, weird.
38:42
Why do you say words the way you do?
38:42
You know, what is aluminum?
38:44
All these things coming together.
38:48
And then, "Oh, yeah, our guy."
38:50
You know, which I'm grateful for. Eternally grateful for.
38:52
I always tell my my people, everyone, I go, "Yo, do not forget.
38:56
Do not forget how hard this was.
38:59
Do not forget Do not take it for granted."
39:03
But what happens is it's not that you don't become relatable or you aren't relatable.
39:08
It's It's It's how people relate to you.
39:13
They have one idea of of who you are.
39:16
They have one idea of of how you are.
39:18
And it's understandable because of how they interact with you.
39:23
You know, I I have I have two younger brothers.
39:26
Both, in my opinion, far wiser than I'll ever be.
39:29
I always I always you know, I'll cuss them out and say, "You guys You guys cheated cuz you you like took what I did and then you just like you leapfrogged me." Yeah.
39:37
You know, and and and my youngest brother said one of the most beautiful things one day.
39:43
We were trying to have dinner as a family and we're taking a quiet moment and you know, someone came over to the table and they're like, "Hey, can I get Can I get a selfie?"
39:50
And And this is happening in the dinner and you know, and and and someone who was with us said, "Oh, man, that must get annoying."
39:55
And I was like, "Well, I get it."
39:57
And I said, "I just don't understand the familiarity and the I I don't understand it, truly."
40:03
And my brother said one of the most interesting things.
40:06
He said, "No, what you're not understanding is a disconnect in your relationship, in the relatability."
40:14
He said, "You've met them and they've talked to you and you've had a conversation with them and so they've built up a relationship with you but they don't understand that you haven't been building up the same relationship with them and so they he said they're reacting to you as naturally as they would had you been conversating with them constantly. Wow, yeah.
40:35
And so he said if anything they're acting normally, you're acting weird cuz they go hey Trevor and you're like who the hell are you?
40:41
And they're like what do you mean we've been friends for 7 years, I watch you on TV every day. Yeah.
40:45
And just through that lens he helped me understand that it's it's that they were misrelating. Yes.
40:53
And that's sometimes what happens to us I think as people is we're misrelating.
40:56
We have an idea of the thing that isn't incorrect from our point of view Yes.
41:04
but is incorrect from the other person's point of view and so that's what creates the conflict. Wow, yeah.
41:09
That's what creates the the disconnect and that's what creates the loneliness, that's what creates the isolation, that's what creates the you know yeah it it it creates an environment that doesn't lend itself to familiarity, to trust, to relaxation.
41:24
I think that's where it becomes even more important Yeah. to find your grounding.
41:30
To find your space, to find you like my friends know me in the group I'm notorious as the vacation guy, I'm the holiday guy.
41:37
Really I I'm like where we going, what are we doing, we're making this happen.
41:41
I shoot out a list and everything because I don't live back home. Yes. They all do.
41:44
So I've learned they can take for granted the fact that we'll see each other and they might go like oh did we plan anything for December? Oh we didn't.
41:50
Oh well oh well we'll we'll do no I can't take that for granted. Yes.
41:54
And so they know I go every year I'm like guys what are we doing?
41:57
And what are we doing here?
41:59
Three times a year we have to be in the same place and it doesn't mean we're going somewhere fancy.
42:02
No, we might just find a place, a house and we sit together and that's what it's going to be. Beautiful.
42:07
But I make it happen because of that relatability, because that is where I can exist, they can exist.
42:15
I can exist, they can exist, you know?
42:17
Because sometimes what's funny is it can go the other way for me.
42:21
Sometimes I will completely be myself with people and they won't know what to do with it because they only have one idea of me. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know? Yeah.
42:30
So they'll meet me and Trevor, hey, how are you?
42:32
Hey, hey buddy, hey what and if I say something back and they're like, hey, wait, what was that?
42:36
I I'm like, oh, this is all of me. Yeah.
42:40
They don't have a reference point, yeah.
42:41
And I get that and so I yeah, it's it's it's really interesting when you exist in a one-dimensional space in terms of, you know, you know, I guess it would be unidirectional.
42:49
It's like, you know, it's just going in that one direction as opposed to it coming back and going, you know? Yeah, definitely.
42:55
That's such a great answer.
42:56
I'm I'm one of those people that like generally if I get enough time to meet someone or if I know someone's going to be in my life for an extended period of time, I I hire a new person on my team or something like that.
43:06
I try and show them all of me very quickly.
43:10
I'm one of those people that like, okay, I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to be as jokey as I usually am.
43:13
I'm going to expose you to how I talk to my wife like and I do that not as a not as a I definitely do it as a conscious it's not like it happens.
43:21
It's a conscious attempt at trying to figure out whether this person actually wants to be around me or like me because I'd rather quickly figure out whether I feel chemistry with someone as opposed to wait to reveal my full self Yes.
43:37
for them to what you said to then let them down and then they're like, oh, George, I didn't know you were like this.
43:42
And so I I usually warn people.
43:42
I'm like, hey, I I make a lot more jokes in person than I do on on Instagram and so if I'm like and I banter a lot because of Britain and so me and my wife will banter a lot.
43:52
So most people think me and my wife are going to get a divorce every other day because it is like the way we talk to each other because we're both from England.
44:00
I I want people to be exposed to that not because I I want them to appreciate or like it.
44:03
I just want to know quickly whether whether you vibe with me or not.
44:07
Okay, but but aren't you ever concerned going the other way because you may go this is me, this is all of me. Yeah.
44:11
Now, depending on your position in life the person may be a certain way to you based on that because they feel they can't and then they reveal themselves, then what do you do?
44:24
When they reveal themselves in a positive or like a challenging way? way.
44:28
In a challenging way then well, that's where I'm saying that it's people that I I think are going to be in my life for a longer period of time and then if it's a if it's a team member where we don't get along then we can both move on and go our separate ways.
44:38
I wouldn't do it with someone that I I'm not getting enough quality time with. fire someone? How does a monk fire?
44:45
Well, I'm not a monk anymore.
44:45
I'm a I'm now I'd love to know how does a monk fire like you sit the person down. it is you know what?
44:50
The thing about it is so uncomfortable. Oh, it is. Okay.
44:52
I thought maybe as a monk it was like super chill and you just come in and you go in life everything is happening to you.
45:03
You know, everything that seems bad could be good.
45:05
And so do not think of this as me letting you go but rather think of this as me setting you free. Yeah.
45:13
I thought maybe it would be something more like that. Surrender.
45:14
And then you have to end it with surrender.
45:16
No, that would be brilliant but so it is uncomfortable.
45:19
Oh, it's so uncom- as in I've also been let go so I know what it feels like.
45:23
Like I've been in a position where I think I've been let go poorly where it hasn't been handled well where and I'm very clear on how like having one skill set doesn't just naturally apply to everything.
45:34
I being a monk doesn't make me good at recruiting people or or letting go of people.
45:39
Those are not transferable skills.
45:40
There's certain elements of compassion and empathy Okay.
45:46
but it doesn't make you good at the art.
45:47
Like I I think for to give you a a very practical example, I felt for a lot of a long time that people needed love.
45:58
Like I I felt for a long time that I believed that if you love people then they'll be happy and they'll feel good about stuff.
46:06
And I used to believe that and after trying to express love to people even in the way they wanted so not even unconsciously but I would try and figure out how does this person receive love?
46:16
Okay, let me give them love in the way they want to receive love.
46:19
I realized that so many people were not even operating on that level yeah?
46:21
That what they needed was safety. Damn.
46:25
Like they just needed a base level of safety.
46:30
They weren't they couldn't even accept or receive love.
46:34
Because that was such a lofty deep idea.
46:38
It's like they they didn't understand how someone who doesn't know them very well could express deep love for them because they've never experienced that before.
46:47
How do you find the correct safety to convey?
46:53
And and what I mean by that is we all have a different idea of what safety means. Mhm.
46:58
You know, going back to the your idea of you know, when you were saying stability and stability earlier in the conversation.
47:03
One of the wildest discoveries I made in therapy was where I was speaking to my therapist and I realized I am particularly comfortable in chaos. Mhm.
47:16
That is where I'm most comfortable. Mhm.
47:19
You know, if if you're in an airport and you know, flights are being cancelled and you know, everything's being delayed you want me rolling with you. Like I'm that is me. Problem, I solve it.
47:31
I genuinely I find a beautiful hum of peace that comes over me when there is chaos.
47:38
Traffic, everything, cars, not that's where I'm comfortable.
47:44
And yet the flip I also discovered was true is that when there's calm now I'm in chaos. Wow.
47:51
You know, and so I learned that I felt safest Mhm.
47:54
where most people didn't. Yes.
47:58
And I felt the least safe Mhm. where most people would.
48:02
You know, and I learned a lot of that came because growing up in a home where there was domestic abuse, you you know, this the silence meant you didn't know. Mhm. Mhm.
48:14
Anything could happen at any moment. What's going on? What's happening? Don't know. You don't know.
48:21
But when something is happening, all you have to do is deal with it. Yeah. Wow.
48:24
I mean, that's Do you Do you get what I'm saying? Yeah.
48:27
I mean, I mean, but that's like that's such a challenging, difficult idea Right. to grasp.
48:34
And so, what you're saying is that if I can hear gunshots, at least I know Well, I know where the shooting's coming from. Correct. Yeah, yeah, exactly.
48:41
where to run away to from You get what I'm saying? Yeah, yeah, no, no, no.
48:44
I fully get what you're saying, but I'm just saying that that is a challenging concept for people to get around because if you've not been brought If you've not been raised in a space like that, like that's so much to do with your upbringing.
48:53
Yeah, and but but that's what I mean by safety.
48:55
So, that's why I'm asking. yeah, yeah.
48:57
So, How do you even find that because, you know, I understand what you mean by love because again, how we process it, what our languages are, etc.
49:04
, are so are so specific. Yeah.
49:04
But even safety, you know, my my idea of safety isn't the same as your idea of safety. not. Yeah.
49:11
You know, whether it'll be in a personal relationship, in a romantic relationship.
49:14
You know, some people's idea of safety is, "Hey, you You text me every day and you Exactly.
49:20
me to make sure I got home and you Another person's idea of safety is, "You leave me alone when I'm busy. That makes me feel safe.
49:26
You take care of yourself." Makes me feel safe.
49:27
You You know what I mean?
49:29
So, how do you then find what the person's idea of safety is then?
49:33
Well, I think it's what you just said, that there's a hierarchy of needs, right?
49:37
And everyone has their different, like you said, like the the the base level, and I'm looking at the Vedas, which is what I studied as a monk, and it says that the base level of anyone's motivator is fear and anxiety, right?
49:50
Like people get motivated by fear and anxiety.
49:52
So, the lack of fear and anxiety is a sense of safety. Okay. Right?
49:58
Higher than that is someone who's motivated by uh results or goals.
49:59
So, they feel safe when they're moving towards something.
50:03
They feel safe when they're driving towards a deadline that is clear and active.
50:07
Another level is tranquility and calm.
50:11
And it's like someone feels safe when they feel clarity. Okay. Right?
50:15
And so, in a similar what you're saying, like there's some So, I think what I realized though was that safety was such a base need of humans. Right.
50:24
That until you fulfill that need, Huh.
50:27
it love just And And this is just experience, right?
50:30
I'm I'm saying this from experience.
50:31
I just felt like opening my heart to people or like trying to give love to people in a very genuine way, I just felt that it it couldn't fully be received because I realized most people have probably never received love even maybe from their parents or their family or from the people they expected to love them.
50:48
So, when someone unexpected comes along and tries to show you love, it's like, "What is it What does he want? Or what is he going on?"
50:54
Or, you know, "Where does this land?"
50:56
And so, I was like, "All right, like reel it back."
50:58
You know, reel it back and just figure out safety first.
51:00
Anyway, that was at least a personal experience, but But But why did we get there?
51:05
We got there because we're talking about this idea with you of like We're talking about relatability. Yeah.
51:11
And we're And we're moving through to, you know, safety and love and then meeting people.
51:14
And you're talking about how you um will reveal all of yourself early on that so that the person I guess is in the safest space, really. Yeah.
51:23
And And that's only my method.
51:23
I'm Again, I'm not saying that's right or wrong.
51:26
It's just kind of And even what you said earlier, like you said like, "Jay, you always feel safe."
51:29
I think I do I feel the opposite, too.
51:31
I feel most unsafe when I think I'm somewhere and I don't have a purpose there. Okay.
51:37
So, if I get invited to a place where I don't feel I have any purpose, you will see me just like I will last like 30 minutes and then I will leave because I'm just like, "What am I going to do here?
51:47
I'm not just going to shoot the breeze.
51:50
So, do you practice then not doing? Being in my purpose. Yeah.
51:52
Yeah, so when I'm in a space like that, I will I will look at I will I will be there.
51:56
Of course, I can I can have conversations and I can talk and everything else.
52:00
You're not crying in a corner or something. Obviously, yeah.
52:01
But I'm saying, but do you Do you think I'm What I'm asking is do you have to work on that? Yes, absolutely.
52:05
Yeah, because it's a discomfort.
52:07
It's a discomfort that I have to work on, which is well, I don't know why I'm here.
52:12
I don't know what my purpose is.
52:14
And then the And then sometimes my way of talking to myself is you never know, there may be something here.
52:22
And you have to be open to that.
52:22
If I If I live If I sit here and I'm closed to that, then I may never discover anything.
52:26
If I'm open to it, maybe I'll discover something, maybe I won't.
52:28
How do you find the balance between knowing when to walk away and when the opportunity may present itself?
52:36
I feel like I feel like that's the greatest challenge in life, because sometimes you you find yourself at an event, whatever it may be.
52:43
Be a work event, a friend's Whatever it may be.
52:46
You go, "Oh, man, I'm not having fun here.
52:48
I'm not having a good time.
52:48
I'm not And then as you say, the one idea may be, "Hey, stay in this discomfort, and what may come from it is something special, which often times can happen.
53:01
The flip is true as well.
53:01
I stayed there for too long.
53:03
I stayed in that relationship for too long.
53:04
I stayed at that job for too long.
53:06
I I I stayed in that environment for too long.
53:07
It was discomfort, and I thought I was going to get something out of it.
53:13
I often hear people saying that even you know, they'll they'll you know, friends, colleagues, strangers sometimes I'll meet, they'll say, "Yeah, but I I've just it I've been doing it for so long now, and I just feel like maybe there's there's there's something and and you know, and then I I will say and I don't know if even if if I'm right, I go, "Maybe the lesson you're learning is when to walk away or how to walk away."
53:37
But I don't even know this myself, first of all.
53:39
You know, you may leave the thing that that's making me uncomfortable.
53:42
Because of that you have a certain type of this experience. Totally.
53:45
And you go, oh, that's why I left cuz this was supposed to happen. You always confirm.
53:48
You always have that confirmation bias. Absolutely.
53:52
Or you stay and then something happens and you go like, ah, I was always supposed to stay.
53:54
So, how do you how do you how do you know or do you accept the fact that you don't know?
53:58
I think that's I think you literally just answered you like what you got on our journey.
54:01
Yeah, you don't Yeah, you No, no, you're spot on. You don't know.
54:05
Like you don't know, right?
54:05
Like and and you can only you can I I think it's also a matter of time, right?
54:10
I think if I was and this is again personal, but there's a difference between like if we got here on this beautiful set up that we have that you were admiring and you were saying you like the energy and you know, I do too.
54:21
If we got here on Friday, which was when we first started filming here.
54:26
If I didn't like it on Friday, if I didn't like the energy and I could tell the guest didn't like the energy, I would have shifted the room immediately.
54:32
Because I'm not going to wait around if I'm clear on something or I'm I'm sensing it. Right.
54:37
I think jobs are harder because They're tied to your survival. Exactly.
54:42
And so I think when things are tied to your survival, we tend to spend longer in them than we probably should. Yeah.
54:48
Because that safety again and security is so tied to that.
54:51
And I think that's why relationships, as you rightly pointed out, homes Yes.
54:57
Like I I was just talking my my uncle and aunt like uh you know, my my grandparents have passed away, they've moved on.
55:02
And you know, they've been wanting to move home, they've said for many many years, but now they don't want to uh they live in London and they have a house and they want to they want to move to a uh a different environment, they've always wanted, but now they're like, no, no, no, but all our memories in this house, right?
55:19
And so there's that there's that familiarity and they're like, no, I don't want to leave even though I don't love this house as a structure and as a space. I don't want to leave.
55:27
And I think that's what we do with people.
55:31
But but I guess that that's a good question for you that you've you've obviously had to find home again and again.
55:35
You've continued to find it in yourself.
55:37
Like how have you let go of previous identities and personalities?
55:40
And are you because that's where we started, like I think I've had to do that a lot of times.
55:48
Like even when you said monk and I always say, "Well, I'm not anymore."
55:51
And the reason I say that is because I had to let go of so many parts of that identity that don't serve me anymore.
55:58
There are lots of parts of that identity that serve me massively.
56:02
There are lots of parts of that identity that don't serve me Uh same with uh same with anything. Like any work I've done.
56:08
So, I guess today when you're deciding who you want to be Uh one of the things I've taken away from this episode for sure and talking to you and I I've genuinely enjoyed talking to you is we know you're a very smart, intellectual, thoughtful person about what's happening in the world.
56:23
But what I find really beautiful and refreshing is that today you're doing the same things internally on your inner world.
56:31
Has that always been a habit?
56:31
You even said to today when you walked in before we even started recording, you were like, "Jay, well, I've been on all day.
56:38
I need to just reflect and decompress and think about stuff."
56:42
Has that always been a habit?
56:42
Is there a method you use?
56:44
Is there a Is there an approach?
56:46
Or is it just something you naturally just go into that inner world?
56:50
Although I'm not particularly religious, I would have to say growing up religious instilled within me the idea that I could have conversations with myself and they were necessary in order for me to process what I was going through.
57:06
You know, that's that's what prayer is in my opinion.
57:08
It's a conversation that you are having multiple times a day.
57:11
You are remembering, you are thinking, you are discussing, you are exposing your vulnerabilities, you are whatever it may be. You are You are doing.
57:22
In In doing that as a little child, you know, getting on my knees and praying, one of my favorite lessons that my mom taught me was that your relationship with God is your relationship with God.
57:35
You know, she if I was in trouble she wouldn't say to me, "Pray in front of me. Let me hear you pray."
57:40
No, she'd be like, "You go and go and pray."
57:44
And so, what I am grateful for in that experience was that my relationship with God was then always my relationship with God. It was my conversation. Wasn't performative.
57:55
It It wasn't I remember as a little kid just like asking random questions, you know, I'd go to bed and I'd be like, "Oh God man, why do I break things all the time? It's like, why? I don't know what it is.
58:07
Like I mean, you were there with me. I don't know why.
58:10
Why don't you stop me sometimes?
58:12
Like, you know, you never stop me.
58:14
And then then I'll just be there as a kid and I would I don't want to break things, but then I broke it.
58:18
And I knew it was going to break.
58:18
And now mom's angry and please try and make her not as angry.
58:23
And but I'd have these conversations and I would feel different afterwards. I would feel better.
58:27
I'd feel like I'd processed something.
58:31
And there's an element of prayer that I think a lot of people take for granted.
58:36
Is that processing of the information that's often times just running away in your head.
58:42
Like just really running away in your head.
58:45
In that I I just try and ask questions.
58:49
I I just tell people, you know, I could like I don't know if I I don't think I'm smart.
58:52
I think I'm I think I I'm more and more confident in being an idiot to be honest with you.
59:00
You know, I I have friends who I consider smart because I can ask them about anything, you know, I have friends who know about you know, quantum gravity and whatever it is. I'm just face books.
59:12
I always go like, "You're reading face books again."
59:13
I have friends who know about, you know, the the deepest trenches of of football history.
59:19
I know friends who they they're smart in my opinion.
59:24
But I'm proud to say I'm an idiot.
59:24
And so, when you let go of that sometimes, what I find is I then enjoy asking questions. Yeah, yeah.
59:33
You know, I in most of my work, that's what I'm doing is I'm asking questions.
59:37
As a comedian, I'm asking questions of how we live in society.
59:40
Why do we accept certain things the way we do?
59:42
And I think it's funny that we do.
59:43
And have you ever noticed how And And that's what a lot of comedians do.
59:46
They're asking a question about something that everybody accepts as the norm.
59:51
You know, I do it in in my job on The Daily Show.
59:53
I ask questions about how people see politics and why they see politics and you know, whatever it may be.
59:58
I ask questions, you know?
1:00:01
I remember one day someone said to me, some random person said to me, he's like, "Oh, it's crazy, you know, you came to this country and you know, as a Democrat, you probably I said, "Whoa, wait, what do you mean as a Democrat?
1:00:10
In my country, we don't have that." Yeah.
1:00:14
And many political parties, we're not forced into a binary system.
1:00:16
That's already You didn't ask a question, you made an assumption. Mhm.
1:00:19
You know, and so, even that has helped me where I come from, there is not just this or that. Yeah.
1:00:25
America's It has like a very very player hating vibe to it.
1:00:28
It's like, "Look what that party's doing and look what that party's like, "Yeah, but what You know what I mean?
1:00:32
If you're voting for these things, shouldn't you be concerned about what you're going for? Wow. Wow. It's your party. Yeah. You know?
1:00:39
And so, but as a comedian, I'm going like, "Where are the jokes?
1:00:41
I'll follow the jokes, I'll tell you that much cuz that's what my purpose is in that moment."
1:00:46
Um And this goes to everything I do in life, you know, I've been lucky enough to work on different projects like yourself, you know, I work in tech.
1:00:51
I work with Microsoft on things.
1:00:53
Funny, the I remember the president of the company one day cuz he said like, "We're going to call you the chief questions officer That's so good.
1:01:01
Yeah, cuz I've been lucky and you know, Yeah. I love tech.
1:01:02
And a lot of tech is asking questions. Mhm.
1:01:06
A lot of what I do in life is enjoying asking questions and becoming less afraid of how stupid you may seem or feel asking the question. Yeah.
1:01:15
That's often times what I I see with kids.
1:01:20
The reason they learn as quickly as they do, it's not just because of their brains. Yeah.
1:01:22
But I feel like it's because they they don't have an idea of who they are or aren't supposed to be, and so they ask questions.
1:01:28
And they ask questions, and they ask questions, and they ask questions, and they ask questions, and they ask questions.
1:01:32
And so what happens is A, they get answers, but B, they discover that the people they're asking the questions of sometimes don't even have the answer.
1:01:40
They just assumed an idea or a way, you know, the way the world was.
1:01:46
And I I often remind myself that if I if I become too tied to the idea of being smart or being informed or knowing, then I'm trapped.
1:01:55
I I would rather say I try to be smart, I try to be informed, but if there's one thing I know I am, well, it's an idiot, and there's nothing wrong with that, and I enjoy it, you know, because then I can be the smartest idiot you've ever met, and I can be the most informed idiot you've ever met, and I'm fine with that, cuz I'm just trying to be the most natural me.
1:02:14
That's that's a that's a good identity.
1:02:19
One thing I've noticed about the way you ask questions in our interview, when you interviewed me, but also today, and something I appreciate and there is it's it's rare as I think most people, when you were saying like someone assumed you were a Democrat, I think most people ask questions in order to either agree or disagree with what comes out the other person's mouth. Yeah.
1:02:40
But we ask our best questions when we simply ask to learn and infer.
1:02:43
And so now it's not asking to see whether we're on the same page.
1:02:49
You're just asking to know.
1:02:52
Because I think what we often do is we ask a question, and even if the base answer kind of sounds similar, we go, "Oh, we're on the same page."
1:02:58
Like, "Oh, me and you, you know, we like we have the same values."
1:03:01
And it's like, "Well, no, we don't.
1:03:03
We just haven't dug deep enough."
1:03:04
And I think we're often not patient, and I think that's why in so many relationships in our lives and everywhere, what you said, you said a friend is someone who I know how they'd be in most situations.
1:03:17
And I think when you quickly go, "Oh, yeah, yeah, we have the same values.
1:03:18
We have the same belief system."
1:03:21
That That's often incorrect because we just haven't asked enough questions to infer because we really want to feel Does that Does that hit a nerve? Yeah. No, it does actually.
1:03:29
I feel like that when you ask questions.
1:03:32
And so, I'm I'm throwing that back at you saying when when you ask questions, I'm like So, going back to what we were talking about or being an outsider, being an insider, where do I find home, where do I find familiar familiarity?
1:03:43
You are familiar with this to a certain degree because of moving out of the UK, going to India, you know, going on that journey, and then moving from there, and then coming to America.
1:03:51
It's another What One thing that happens to you when you leave home is that you have to then either find home or you have to understand why this is home, or you have to become comfortable in a new space so that it will be your new your new home.
1:04:13
And the best way to do that is by understanding, is what I find.
1:04:18
Often times, you aren't forced to understand if you are in the majority.
1:04:21
If If the norm is your world, you're fine. Yeah.
1:04:27
If everyone has your accent, well, then you don't need to understand another accent. Yes.
1:04:32
If everybody is your skin color, you don't need to understand another skin color.
1:04:36
Everybody's your culture.
1:04:36
If everybody's your language.
1:04:37
If everybody's your you know, socioeconomic class, whatever it may be, then you don't need to understand. Mhm.
1:04:45
And so, what I've grown up with because I grew up with a black woman, Xhosa woman, being my mother, white man, Swiss man, being my father, family mixed, country broken up, separated because of class, because of race predominantly, I I found myself often having to understand whatever it was, language, culture, music, food.
1:05:08
I did I have to understand.
1:05:12
And what I found is that is often the fastest path to home is just understanding.
1:05:22
You know, a hammock is a terrible bed unless you understand how to sleep in it.
1:05:28
And I think the same goes for everyone and everything.
1:05:31
A foreign country doesn't feel like home until you understand the language.
1:05:36
And then all of a sudden things start to work. Yeah.
1:05:37
You know, so when I ask a question of you as Jay, I genuinely do it to understand, you know, because if you know, with you I I agree and I'm genuinely trying to understand more because the things I may disagree with funny enough more is like how I'm living my life and I'm trying to understand more about like how you see and then how do I, you know, it's not to agree or disagree but more it's like, "Oh, I need to understand this more." Yeah.
1:05:58
And then sometimes it'll be with people who I don't agree with them.
1:05:59
So, I want to understand.
1:06:01
I see the world and it seems so clear to me.
1:06:03
Can you explain why you don't see what I'm seeing? Yeah. You know?
1:06:06
That's That's often times what plagues me as as a person is I think we live in a world now where there are fewer and fewer experiences that we all relate to or that we've all gone through.
1:06:20
And so while that's great for individualism and it's great for us, you know, living in our own niche, it has robbed us of a collective understanding.
1:06:30
And so whether it's in politics or whether it's in society, whatever it is, you know, I think it's healthy to disagree.
1:06:36
You know, to say like, you know, Jay, oh, I don't but it's another thing to say, you know, oh, that's my parking.
1:06:44
No, that's my parking versus that's my parking, what parking?
1:06:49
Wait, you don't see a parking?
1:06:52
Well, now we're in a bigger and I that's why I feel like society's moving towards as as everything entertainment, social media, all these things become more niche, I think we're losing that collective space to be in and so because I've always been outside Yes.
1:07:05
because I've never been part of I've always been forced to understand. Mhm. Why do you do that? Why do you say that? How do you eat this?
1:07:12
You know, so when I'm in India and I'm eating and I go, "Okay, can you help me?
1:07:17
Help me understand why you use your hand the way you do.
1:07:20
What are you trying to Okay, great.
1:07:21
Chopsticks for the first time I have to All these things as opposed to assuming or even not being willing to."
1:07:28
And so maybe that's why I ask a question the way I do Yeah.
1:07:30
is because I just don't understand why you see the world the way you do.
1:07:35
And once I do, I now get to hold two truths.
1:07:40
Like I get to see how you see the world.
1:07:43
I get to know how I see the world.
1:07:43
And I may augment my way of seeing it or I'll be able to help you understand why I see it the way I do because I now understand yours. Yeah.
1:07:52
I don't think I can do that if I if I don't ask, you know. Absolutely.
1:07:55
That That's exactly what I'm trying to say is that when I was saying learn, that's what I mean, understand.
1:08:01
Like you're asking to learn, you're asking to understand.
1:08:03
You're There's not an asking to say, "Yes, we're the same."
1:08:07
or "No, we're not the same."
1:08:09
And and I I read somewhere when when I was looking at this interview about how you were saying like because you've never felt of something, you've always felt outside, you've always been able to see the full picture.
1:08:20
And I was literally just saying this today that I grew up in a home where my parents really agreed on anything. Mhm.
1:08:26
And I was always the mediator. Interesting.
1:08:30
And so I would sit and listen to my mom and I would understand how how she felt. Interesting.
1:08:34
And then I'd sit and listen to my dad and I always had a equal level of love and respect for them from their individual relationship with me even though collectively they didn't they didn't have it together.
1:08:43
And I found that when I read that about you, I I I was wanting to ask you about it because I was like that's where I I feel happier learning about people and trying to understand people because I could see both my mom and dad were right in so many ways.
1:08:57
Like I would sit with my mom and be like, "How does dad not see that? Right.
1:09:02
And I'll sit with dad and be like, how does mom not see that?
1:09:05
Like how are we missing this part of the picture?
1:09:07
And I failed miserably at trying to help the situation.
1:09:11
But I think that's partly why I do what I do today because so much of me was exposed to different opinions.
1:09:18
So, I when I when I read that about you, I was like So, before Go on. Yeah, go on.
1:09:22
I'd love to know, how did you deal with that feeling?
1:09:24
Like how did you deal with the idea and I know you you you're saying it flippantly in conversation, but like how did you deal with the pressure and the idea that you failed to reconcile what was happening between the two of them?
1:09:37
I think it took me years to accept that and to to feel that way because I think when you're a kid, it's what you said, you just accept that this is normality.
1:09:46
So, when I was a kid, I didn't even think of it.
1:09:47
I was like, this is normal. Parents don't get along.
1:09:49
I want to help my mom out. I'm a good son.
1:09:50
I want to help my dad out.
1:09:52
You know, we're figuring it out.
1:09:53
And I'd probably say I spent a good part of like at least my adult life, so say from well, maybe not even adult, maybe since I was 10.
1:10:01
Maybe from 10 to 21, like probably 11 years trying to fix that and trying to think I could fix that or that we could improve it.
1:10:09
And while things got better, Sorry, just to interrupt you.
1:10:13
To your point because you were trying to create the safety because as a child, I feel like there are few things that make you feel less safe than your two parental figures, you know? Sorry, but carry on. No, no, no, please.
1:10:24
No, I'm just saying going back to the safety that you're saying.
1:10:25
You were trying to make your world safe.
1:10:29
Because love didn't work.
1:10:29
It didn't It didn't matter how many Valentine's Days there were.
1:10:32
It didn't matter how many romantic gestures.
1:10:33
It didn't matter if saying I love you or a love letter. But it was safety, yeah.
1:10:37
And so, I was trying that probably for a good 11 years and then I think when I went off to the monastery, it was still there in my heart.
1:10:43
And then I think while I was there, I was like, okay, I have to let go of this because it's not my responsibility. It's not my ability.
1:10:49
I don't have the powers to fix this. And that's okay.
1:10:56
And that if I'm able to let go of this, then not only will things improve there, I can help people who want to be helped as well.
1:11:05
And I think that was a whole like probably like a 15-year journey to to get to that because otherwise you hold it as your Right.
1:11:12
like your like responsibility, like this is my job almost.
1:11:17
Yeah, and I think that's what many of us have done is Yeah.
1:11:21
we have been burdened with and often times subconsciously a job or a role that our parents didn't realize they were burdening us with. Wow.
1:11:29
You know, often times I I find it so interesting how the loudest parents who aren't good at reading a room will have the the most shy child. Yes.
1:11:39
You know, and and then the parents who aren't good at being outgoing and what they'll have kids who are running and screaming and greeting everybody and talking to them because there's this interesting thing that happens in nature where I feel like you know, the child tries to correct for what the parent may be lacking. Wow. You know, So true.
1:11:56
and and it's it's really fascinating that you say that.
1:12:01
Yeah, because what happens is over time you get to an age where then you have to take off, you know, that armor, take off that cape, take off that that designation.
1:12:11
That designation, yes, that's right.
1:12:14
that now you've lived that, you've gained the tools from it, it's become a lot of who you are today, but you have to let it go.
1:12:19
And that that I find is terrifying because the only thing scarier than accepting who we are is accepting that we don't know who we are going to be when we let go of the things that have made us who we are today. Yeah.
1:12:35
And that's that not knowing as simple as leaving a party early, it's that same feeling of discomfort of like did I make the right choice?
1:12:43
If I stayed here, would it have If I kept that role, would it have And yeah, I was talking to a client the other day, and she said something really interesting.
1:12:54
She was saying, "I just never grew up with an opinion."
1:12:56
She goes, "I've I've just never really had an opinion."
1:13:01
And I've known her for some time, so it was a fairly uh it was a it was a progressed conversation.
1:13:05
It wasn't the first time.
1:13:09
And and we were talking about that.
1:13:09
She was saying, "Well, I've never really had an opinion on this or that.
1:13:11
And so, when when people ask me what I want to do, or when my partner asks me what I want to do, I I kind of like go along with it.
1:13:18
But now I'm starting to question like, am I living my life or someone else's?" Right.
1:13:23
And it was really interesting because we we were really getting into it, and I I started talking to her about her parents and family dynamic.
1:13:31
And she said something really phenomenal to me.
1:13:33
She said that "My brother and my dad always used to argue.
1:13:40
And I was the peacemaker." Mhm.
1:13:42
And she goes, "When I felt pain, I never shared it because it would create more complexity. Right.
1:13:48
And so, I accept that she came to the conclusion that the reason I don't have an opinion is because it disturbs the peace.
1:13:58
And when I don't have an opinion, the peace is kept."
1:13:59
And I would you know, those are the kind of things that we're saying, like we take the designation of peacemaker, you take the role in the designation of whatever I was Yes.
1:14:09
Sometimes the comedians take on the role of being a comedian because you you kind of get on the laugh, and everyone, you know.
1:14:16
And so, I think these roles that you're talking about are really it's a really beautiful way that you said it, that we we adopt this job and this role and this designation. I I think I think we do.
1:14:25
And I often think sometimes it is necessary. Of course.
1:14:29
I think it may be evolutionary.
1:14:32
I Whatever it is, you know, again, that's why I don't go to it's bad, it's good. I go it is. It just is.
1:14:39
And and in understanding it, I realize there's nothing wrong with it being as long as you know when to let it go. Mhm.
1:14:47
You know, I I often think of that about seat belts.
1:14:49
When I'm in a car or on a plane, sometimes I forget that I'm wearing the seat belt.
1:14:56
I love wearing my seat belts, especially on a plane.
1:14:58
I I buckle it long before they tell I'm like in strapped. I don't know what it is. I love it.
1:15:02
Buckle and fly even when you see it go off.
1:15:04
You still You know You know when they'll turn seat belt like on?
1:15:07
I'm like, "What do you mean on?"
1:15:08
The whole flight I will be wearing the seat belt. Thank you very much.
1:15:13
And what will happen sometimes I'm so comfortable feeling that whole time.
1:15:15
When we land, we we chill.
1:15:15
I don't rush to get my bags, any of that.
1:15:19
And then I'll stand and the seat belt will pull me And it's always like a I laugh to myself.
1:15:22
It always happens cuz it's cuz it's really down and it just, you know, as I jump I was like, "Huh." Pulls me back down.
1:15:27
And I always giggle and I I I unbuckle it.
1:15:31
And I I I found myself thinking the one day I was like, "It's amazing how this this device is is is brilliant.
1:15:36
It saves your life, you know, you know, car crash, you know, you you know, plane crash on a runway or whatever.
1:15:41
I don't know how much it'll save you in a big one, but still, you know, but this thing is it it holds you. Wow." Mhm.
1:15:45
It's helping you stay intact.
1:15:48
It's helping you stay in the place you need to be in, but if you don't know how to let it go when you need to, now you're trapped. Yeah.
1:15:56
And and so that's what I'm constantly trying to work on, which is so hard.
1:16:00
Yeah, it's like man, I go like, "Okay, all right, my safe my safety belt, my seat belt, all right.
1:16:05
It might be my personality.
1:16:07
It might be the way I see the world.
1:16:10
It might be how I've learned to interact with others.
1:16:13
It might be anything, how I eat, how I think, what I do, what I don't, what I love, what I All these things.
1:16:20
And and I get that and I I'm always just trying to ask myself.
1:16:22
I go, "Okay, all right, is this still your seat belt or has it now become a trapping?"
1:16:30
And I always just have to ask myself that question.
1:16:31
It's extremely difficult.
1:16:33
I've been, you know, You just go around and around and stuff. Sometimes I do.
1:16:37
You know, a lot of the time I'll I'll I'll be chill, but sometimes, woof.
1:16:39
I don't think I can watch Harry Potter the same again.
1:16:43
I don't think I don't think I don't think I don't think I can be on a plane the same again.
1:16:46
Like I I yeah, I love how you think.
1:16:49
I I think it's so refreshing to to hear that and I I one of the biggest thing I'm taking about this is just this ability to really question our lives, question things.
1:16:59
I think I think that is the the purpose of life is is to start asking questions.
1:17:03
And what I loved about at least at least the scriptures I study in the Eastern side, they're all Q&As.
1:17:10
Like they're all cute question and answers.
1:17:12
None of them are like talking or lecturing or lecturing or and I think that was a big part of how we were trained to believe that all inquiry was the birth of wisdom.
1:17:22
Like it had to be an inquiry, it had to be a conversation.
1:17:27
It couldn't be a a lecture or a seminar.
1:17:30
And and you know, I I think when I sit with you and whenever I've sat with you and whenever I've watched you, which I've admired you for so long, I think the the quality of questioning is really what we should be more focused on than than the result and the answers as you were saying earlier that if we asked questions we were actually interested in knowing the answer to, we'd actually listen to the answer.
1:17:52
But Trevor, we end the show with two segments. These are fast segments.
1:17:57
You've been more than generous with your time.
1:17:58
So the first segment is called the many sides to us.
1:18:03
And so these you have to answer in one word.
1:18:06
And there's five questions. So are you ready? I'm ready. Okay.
1:18:10
What is one word to describe what someone would say about you meeting you for the first time? Friendly. Friendly. Okay, yeah.
1:18:16
Friends and friendly, two different things, but friendly. Okay. Question number two.
1:18:22
What is one word to describe what someone would say about you that knows you extremely well? Consistent. Nice. Okay. Question number three.
1:18:31
What is one word you'd use to describe yourself? Mercurial. Okay.
1:18:35
All right, now I'm going to have to ask you to expand, like that that I was not expecting that word.
1:18:38
That is a very Yeah, tell me why that word, like you can now go off one word, like.
1:18:42
I'm consistent in the fact that I'm also mercurial.
1:18:48
Part of it, funny enough, I I I think was not created by, but as as somebody who has ADHD, Mhm.
1:18:53
it took me a long time to learn in life what that did to my brain, how that affected how I process time, an idea, a thought, a an object, any any inquiry that I would have could be in some way, shape, or form affected by that.
1:19:10
And I think, funny enough, there's a there's a huge misunderstanding.
1:19:13
Sometimes I actually, you know, hate how we've created a lot of the conversations around the mind is the best way to put it, you know, because that some of the some of the terms have have become so rote, and some of the ideas have become so simple when they're not.
1:19:30
Um I remember when I was young and I was diagnosed with ADHD, they made they made it seem like you can't pay attention, when in fact, it's the fact that you can't choose what to pay pay attention to. Mhm.
1:19:40
Very good at paying attention, you know?
1:19:43
And so Wow, wow, wow, yes.
1:19:44
It's a very nuanced, subtle yeah, it makes a big difference.
1:19:49
makes a big difference, even though it's a tiny thing, yeah.
1:19:50
And so, what what what's been wonderful for me in life is learning again how to be grateful for how I've dealt with something, not even looking at it through the lens of good or bad, but just going it is, Mhm.
1:20:06
and then understanding it like that, you know?
1:20:07
And And that's what I mean by I think we've really hurt ourselves in society with with how we've had some conversations because we've made it seem bad or good as opposed to understanding Yeah.
1:20:17
because it may not be the same as the norm, you know?
1:20:22
So, is a short person good or bad?
1:20:25
No, they they're just short.
1:20:25
And the reason we say short is because they're short relative to the general population, the same way someone who's tall is tall relative to the general population.
1:20:33
Now, if you are tall, you may be bumping your head a lot more than other people.
1:20:37
If you're short, you may not be reaching the things that people have put at an average height.
1:20:41
I think the same thing goes for the mind.
1:20:45
If you are blessed enough to have a mind or a mentality that is of the norm, most things will work for you and most things will make sense in life.
1:20:53
If your mind isn't, that's why they use divergent, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong, but you you you need to understand how your mind will react to a world that has been designed in a certain way.
1:21:05
And so, that is why I've I've learned to understand and accept. I go, "I'm mercurial."
1:21:10
Again, was a friend who taught me that and I I loved it once I understood.
1:21:14
At first I was I was like, "No, I'm not I'm not."
1:21:15
He's like, "You He's like, yeah, you're mercurial."
1:21:17
And I was like, "First of all, explain the word." Yeah, yeah, yeah. he explained it to me.
1:21:20
I was like, "I'm not that.
1:21:21
I'm the" And then I realized I could could I could be two things. Yeah.
1:21:24
I'm extremely consistent.
1:21:28
Anyone who needs me knows me.
1:21:28
They know where to find me. They know how I'll be.
1:21:32
But I'm also mercurial in that how I feel about this on a day and how I feel about that on a day may be more extreme than somebody else's range.
1:21:39
And so, in that, again, just the understanding and asking the questions of myself, I then I then exist in a space where I understand.
1:21:46
So, what would be funny is sometimes I'll meet people and they'll get distracted and be like, "Oh, sorry, that's my ADHD."
1:21:53
And I'm like, "That's not what it is, but Yeah, very right. Whatever.
1:21:58
You know, that like people have done this with everything.
1:21:59
"Oh, I'm sorry, I'm OCD." It's like, I don't Okay.
1:22:02
Yeah, that's not what it Yeah, and so we have these very limited understandings of these words.
1:22:08
caricatures Yes, caricatures exactly. be.
1:22:10
And we've also created an idea of them being a bad Correct. good, whatever.
1:22:16
It's like, "No, it's just understanding."
1:22:18
The same thing we did with glasses at some point.
1:22:22
Nearsighted, farsighted, I wear glasses.
1:22:24
And now and then at At point it was just that's what it is. Yeah.
1:22:26
I think we have a long way to go in the conversations we have around the mind. Yes.
1:22:31
In getting us to the same place where when you meet someone they can say that to you and you now understand that the Oh, I wear glasses. Okay, great. Yes.
1:22:40
You know, whereas I'm sure there was a point where it was like I wear glasses, so you're blind?
1:22:42
Now people are just like Oh, you do you wear glasses or you wear or you wear contacts? Okay, cool.
1:22:47
That's that's who you are.
1:22:47
Yeah, and I and I think that's what it is that our vocabulary around the mind and our psychology is very limited and and you're spot on and one thing that you just said that really struck a chord was the idea that if the world is designed for the average Yeah.
1:23:01
then the challenge is that anyone outside of it feels broken. Mhm.
1:23:04
And and that's where I think we've gone wrong where it's like there's a weakness or a broken and it's like no, the world if the world was designed for Right. those people Right. then we'd feel broken.
1:23:13
And it's just that the world's been designed for these few people.
1:23:16
If you created a new planet that was for only people who had a certain certain uh disposition Yeah.
1:23:23
then it would be a very different case. Yeah, I know. I I I love that.
1:23:26
That's a That's a great That's another whole two-hour That's another We'll save that Yeah, we'll save it.
1:23:31
All right, question number four.
1:23:32
Uh what is one word uh that if someone didn't agree with you or like you, how would they what would they say about you?
1:23:38
Not like I'm not talking about like an internet troll or something like that. Stubborn. Stubborn, right? Okay, yeah.
1:23:43
There you go, that's a good word. Yeah, yeah, that's good. That makes sense. I like that.
1:23:45
All right, question number five.
1:23:46
What is a word that you're trying to embody right now?
1:23:48
Is there like a a focus, a presence with a particular characteristic or value or belief? Mindful. Mhm. Great.
1:23:55
All right, that's a great That's a fantastic.
1:23:58
Most people struggle with this, so you did You you hit it out of the park.
1:24:01
All right, these are the final five.
1:24:02
These are easy, one word to one sentence.
1:24:04
What's the best advice you've ever received? Never assume.
1:24:07
It's a great piece of advice.
1:24:09
Second question, what is the worst piece of advice you've ever heard? Always be yourself.
1:24:17
That's really All right, uh question times Yeah.
1:24:18
to be your Don't just be yourself. People say though relax. Just be yourself. Relax. Yeah. Yeah.
1:24:26
You know when to be yourself is a better piece of advice someone can give you. That's good.
1:24:28
Uh question number three.
1:24:30
What is something you used to value that you no longer value? Fame.
1:24:32
So, there was a time when it was important and Yeah. Oh, yeah.
1:24:37
I think I I thought that it would give me something that I searched for my whole life and that was a certain sense of belonging.
1:24:49
You know, because there's a there's a familiarity you have with people when you see them.
1:24:51
I never cared for it through the lens of like I'm better or No, but I was like, "Oh, man.
1:24:56
Everyone knows that person.
1:24:57
Everyone likes that person."
1:24:58
And you know, here I was this kid and I grew up alone for so long.
1:24:59
I was like, "Oh, I I'll be familiar."
1:25:01
And the word fame, you know, when you look at the root I was like, "Oh, that that thing. I'll be familiar."
1:25:07
And then ironically, as I said, it jumps straight to your unfamiliar.
1:25:10
And so, then I realized I was like, "Oh, man.
1:25:13
You don't think that it will come from something but rather understand what you're trying to achieve and then, you know, figure out how you're trying to get there. That's beautiful. I love that. Question number four.
1:25:24
How would you define your current purpose? As being a fertilizer. For?
1:25:31
Everything and everyone I come into contact with.
1:25:34
I would hope to be somebody who enriches the soil that I touch.
1:25:39
I would hope to be somebody who improves somebody's life in the slightest of ways.
1:25:44
Whether it's helping you solve a problem, whether it's giving you directions in the streets in New York, whether it's uh making you laugh at a show, you know, talking about politics, whatever it may be.
1:25:55
I would hope to do what a good fertilizer does in that it enables the soil to be richer.
1:26:00
It enables the plant to grow taller.
1:26:02
It it it brings all of the pieces together.
1:26:08
You know, it it becomes it becomes a food.
1:26:10
It becomes it becomes a food that creates more food.
1:26:14
You You it it's not it's not a zero-sum game.
1:26:18
And so, I would say that that would probably be what I'd like to focus on most right now, even for myself, cuz fertilizer even makes itself bigger. Yeah. It grows itself. Yeah.
1:26:25
You add more mulch to it and it keeps on going.
1:26:28
And so, I think I think even for me Yeah.
1:26:31
um you know, I I I look to try and fertilize as much as I can. I love that.
1:26:35
That is one of my favorite answers to that question we've ever had.
1:26:36
All right, uh fifth and final question of the whole interview.
1:26:40
If you could create one law that everyone in the world had to follow, what would it be?
1:26:43
Everyone in the world, right?
1:26:45
I'd create a law that said everyone everywhere in the world randomly randomly randomly could be given the lowest person's bank account.
1:27:02
Like that it could be like it that would be the law is that we we do this weird system where every whatever it may be, every year randomly the lowest person's bank account can just go out and become everybody's bank account. Wow.
1:27:15
The reason I would do that is because I think if we lived in a society where more people felt like their fate was tied to the least of us they would have a little more compassion and think a little more about how those people may or may not be existing. Mhm.
1:27:40
And that's why I say I wouldn't say anyone can't be rich. I'm not saying that.
1:27:42
I wouldn't say anyone can make as much money as they want. Oh, no, go ahead.
1:27:45
You know, we should all be doing that. Enjoy it. Go for it.
1:27:49
But I would just want us all to know that the lowest bank balance, the lowest amount that someone has could randomly go out.
1:27:55
And it wouldn't be to everyone.
1:27:57
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I get you.
1:27:58
just have it it would be like 10% of the population.
1:28:00
That's what's going to happen. It's the law. Yeah.
1:28:01
Every year 10% of the population, your bank balance becomes what the person with the least amount has in that in that in in the in the world. Mhm.
1:28:09
I just wonder how we would live. Yeah.
1:28:12
I genuinely would because Yeah, I I think sometimes I understand that you know, capitalism, hyper capitalism, you know, this thing we've been tricked into and believing that in order for you to have I cannot have as if trading didn't exist long before it.
1:28:29
All of that has tricked us into a world of believing that mine is only mine and yours cannot come with it. Mhm.
1:28:35
So, I wonder what would happen in that space.
1:28:37
I think even myself everyone would pay a lot more attention to like, "Yo, how much do you have?
1:28:42
Yo, we need to get your balance up." Yeah, yeah.
1:28:43
Cuz I'm I'm trying to keep my life as comfortable as it is.
1:28:46
Yeah, and the feeling of it could be any of us. Mhm.
1:28:50
That Yeah, that mindset is a People take it for granted, Jay.
1:28:52
Like it could it could always be any of us. Totally. 100% yeah.
1:28:54
Luck is the most random Yeah.
1:28:58
You can work as hard as you want. Luck is a huge factor.
1:29:00
You can be the best, luck is a factor.
1:29:02
You can be the worst, luck is a factor.
1:29:03
So, you know, it really could be any one of us.
1:29:07
And so, I don't take for granted that I'm lucky. I work hard.
1:29:10
I try and you know, I try and shape as much of the the environment that my luck will exist within, but I never take for granted that I'm lucky.
1:29:20
Trevor, there's a new thing I learned about you today that you don't just ask good questions, but you really honor answering questions.
1:29:29
And that's a it when people don't, by the way. Yeah.
1:29:31
Oh, you want to talk about one of my pet peeves. Thank you. Thank you.
1:29:34
Trevor, that is so special.
1:29:36
Everyone has been listening or watching wherever you are in the world.
1:29:37
Uh I I hope you appreciated that conversation as much as I did.
1:29:41
I hope you could see that we're genuinely just having a good time and getting to know each other and and learning and going back and forth, but I think there were so many great insights in this conversation and I'd love to see what you took away.
1:29:51
So, please do share them wherever you're sharing, whether it's Instagram or TikTok or Twitter or wherever it is.
1:29:56
I'd love to hear what you learned, what you took away, what you gathered from this conversation, what you collected, what you questioned, right?
1:30:05
I think that's the biggest thing.
1:30:06
What did you What is a question that you're asking that you never asked before today?
1:30:11
Uh and uh want to give a big thank you to Trevor for showing up and thank you giving all this time I I I I will admit though I I didn't do this just out of the goodness of my heart.
1:30:19
I came because I remember seeing a a clip of yours many many many many years ago and you talked about how we don't know how to breathe. I remember that.
1:30:30
I remember even watching it I was like sitting at home It's like I don't know how to breathe.
1:30:39
And since then it it's it's stuck with me.
1:30:41
I was like one day I'm going to meet this guy and I'm going to ask him to teach me how to breathe.
1:30:45
Oh, we'll have to do that. No, no. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you Jay. Thank you for this man. No, thank you honestly. No, thank you man. Thank you. You're the best. This was awesome.
1:30:50
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1:30:56
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1:31:05
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