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Welcome back. This album is so good.
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You took your time, I'm so glad you're back.
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Is it a given you're going to make albums?
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Is it Is it Do you allow yourself the space when you go away to say, "I will be back."
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or do you much prefer to sort of just switch off and be like, "As and when I feel like it, I will come back." ?
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>> I think I always I think I always want to make an album, but I will take let it take the time it needs to for it to be ready.
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And I it took I don't know, it took me longer with this one.
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I just needed I needed a second, you know?
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>> Well, you were living life. >> Yeah. >> You were living life.
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You allowed yourself to live some life. >> Yes. >> And to figure it out. What did you learn?
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>> I learned that um you will never know everything.
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>> [laughter] >> That part.
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>> Yes, you'll never have all the answers.
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>> Yeah, but the control thing is hard to let go of.
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Would you say that as a younger artist, as a younger person, that was definitely part of your makeup that you would try to control the environment as as much as possible?
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>> Yeah, I think I had more panic about um like how I was being perceived and like you know, am am I coming across the way I want to come across instead of just kind of letting um letting myself be a little bit, but I think also that was kind of the the exploration with this album.
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I felt like I'm kind of you know, as a as a grown woman now, I feel like there's less acceptance for me being messy and you know, kind of make mistakes and still needing self-exploration and I think I needed to kind of like, "No, that I'm still this girl, you know, I'm still this person."
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>> Partially accountable.
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>> Yes, partially accountable.
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>> And us dropping in off the ramp of the lip of the ramp out the gate, too.
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Like we've known each other a long time.
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We just dropped in and did like a 900 McTwist before anyone even got took their seats.
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We went straight [laughter] into the deep >> Sorry, yes, yes. >> My bad.
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I was just like, I I I'm the Kate.
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Let's talk about the existential nature of this [laughter] record. >> Yes. It's hard not to though.
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It's very in your face on this album.
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>> I love [laughter] it, man. I really do.
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I think it's such a such a really great combination of all of the dynamics of sort of futuristic pop sound that you were so drawn to, but with this real strong growth and learning in your writing.
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Um, how did you keep it fun? Cuz it is a fun record.
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How did you make sure it didn't just dive into this very deep space across the entire landscape?
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>> I think that's kind of where I um, where I actually thrive.
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I have a good sense for that balance where it's like cuz to me it's also when I'm whenever I'm going through something or like, you know, being a highly emotional person who uh, I feel like is always um, uh, always flown between emotions.
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If I can't laugh at the darkness, then um, I find it really hard to deal with.
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So it's kind of like I'm just writing and then it gets to a point where I'm like, "Ah, I need to sort of switch it up now because it's starting to feel too heavy in my heart."
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Um, so that kind of naturally happens to me when I feel like there's um, there's and also maybe it's because I feel like sometimes I'm being dramatic, so there's a wink there, you know?
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>> [laughter] >> Isn't that the job?
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Isn't the job to kind of be dramatic? >> [gasps] >> Right? >> Oh, yeah.
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I think I think especially if I'm like constantly editing the emotion in the song and not let it like, you know, go where it goes in my head and in my body, then I feel like you won't I don't feel it as much when I listen to it, you know?
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So I do have to go all the way.
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>> Was it isolating for you as a kid like where you grew up?
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Like I don't really know too much actually.
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We've We've always tried to keep it about the present moment, but I've never really sort of gotten um, a 3D image of what your day with the days were like for you as a kid and and how your imagination played into that.
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>> I think I um, wow, yeah.
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I'm like I never talk about my childhood.
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I I I grew up in like a very sort of clean nice suburb outside of Stockholm in Sweden and >> out, can I ask?
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>> Like uh, 30 minutes >> Okay, cool. >> north of the city. >> the fringe. >> Yeah.
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>> Yeah, on the fringe, yeah.
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So, not not Yeah, not far.
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Like, I could go into I would sneak out and go into the city a lot. >> I bet you did.
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>> [laughter] >> I bet you did. >> Yeah.
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Um, but when I was like, literally, you know, I would walk to school alone from when I was like seven, meet up with my best friend.
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We would walk It was like a 15-minute walk to school.
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Um, and I feel like it was very safe, very sort of, um, prestigious.
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Like, everyone kind of There was definitely a way to dress, behave, and what you're supposed to be doing, and how you're supposed to act.
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And I think >> life out, and you're a part of that now. >> Yes.
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>> Is the sort of message. >> Yes.
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This is the the the perfect suburb, and everyone here is perfect kind of thing.
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And I think that's where my like, you know, need to not be that, and question that, and not feeling I belong there, you know, has been a really huge part of my writing my whole life.
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>> Are you still friends with the person you used to walk to school with?
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You used to go to school with? >> Yeah. Yeah, we are, actually. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Yeah, we have very different lives, but she's still uh Gabby, she's still very much in my life. >> That's so sweet.
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So, you're a loyal person, right? I know that. >> Mhm.
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>> I've spoken to too many people who you've had long-term friendships friendships with and relationships with for me not to make that assessment. >> Yeah.
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Yeah, I think when it comes to I think I've become, over time, a better friend and daughter and sister and and, um, partner.
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I think I've I've like kind of learned how much it means to have people in your life that you care about, and that music is really important, but I do get so much joy from my relationships as well.
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>> Well, you don't get a pass forever, too, but that's the thing.
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>> [laughter] >> You know, like, if you're charming and fun and move with and move with the wind, that that works for a while.
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And everyone's like, "Oh, that's just how she is, and it's such a joy to be around her when she's around."
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And then, after a while, everyone's like, "So, you sticking around? Like, what's up?"
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>> It's kind of being sort of And I feel like that a little bit now.
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It's like, now it's it's being asked of me to to be like be someone people can rely on in my life. And I used to hate that.
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That was like my my big like no don't demand anything of me, you know, I'm making music and now I'm kind of like no I want to show up.
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So some growth has happened since I last saw you.
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>> Well it's >> [laughter] >> Well you can hear it though and it and I and I love that you be you know, I've I've said this to you so many times.
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This is the constant of our conversations this observation and I will say it to you every time as long as you continue to honor it which is that you're like one of the most honest writers out there and you know, you dress your songs up in these outfits and they dance and they strut and they catwalk the out of it but at the core of it there's real truth in all of these songs.
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It's almost like a Trojan horse the way you slide it in through these these arrangements and And I can hear you wrestling with that the whole idea of what it is to to to play a responsible role in people's lives but also this sort of like eternal arrested development this constant brat past musicians [laughter] get. >> Yeah.
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>> Which is just like you know, you're a football player you get told to just kick the ball.
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Well, I'm an artist and that all I do is whatever the I want to get the songs out. >> Yes. Yes.
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>> There's some truth in that though, right?
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>> Yeah and I kind I kind of feel there is a reality of um when inspiration strikes or like you have to run with it when an opportunity comes your way you have to go with it because it's so rare and it's so like it doesn't happen to anyone.
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happen to anyone. You know, my my dream coming through like like happening the way the coming through the way that it has is like I have to fight to keep it alive, you know, and I think that makes it so that like certain things you like sometimes
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things are going to have to come second and music has to come first because otherwise you will lose that magical thing that makes you create the way that you do or like this opportunity that you know, only will happen once like you have to to roll with that a little bit. So
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So sometimes you can't be counted on in the same way.
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>> I'm so glad you acknowledge that.
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Neil Young says the same thing.
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I mean he he was even more blunt than that.
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He he was like if I'm with anyone, no matter what the situation is, no matter how special it is, if a song needs to be written or something happens, I'm out." >> Yeah. Yeah.
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And it that's that's is a tricky thing to deal with for a lot of people, and I get that, especially especially people who are like planners and like to know what's going to happen in the future.
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It's just not how I am, and I don't think one is more right than the other.
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You just have to explain clearly to the people that aren't like you. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, I get it. I get it.
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But there must have been times in your life where, not to be put too fine a point on it, where you've you've kind of worn relationships out or lost people because of that. >> 100%. Yeah.
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I mean, partners especially.
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Um I mean, a lot of times with in past relationships, it's been very like the thing that attracts them to me then becomes the problem.
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And I've had very little patience for that.
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That's been very like >> This looks like a fun place to be.
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Oh, actually, it's really not. >> Yeah, exactly.
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I'm not getting all your attention. What?
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So, I think it, you know, I've found a very special person now that I've been with for a very long time who >> So, New Zealanders don't give a >> New Zealanders get it.
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>> We [laughter] don't care. We're cool. >> are the best.
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>> We're we're fine with it. >> Um yeah.
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So, so I mean, and um there's no not even a hint of that, you know?
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So, that's I'm very lucky there.
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But it takes uh it's hard. I get it.
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But I've lost friends, I've lost partners over just doing this, but um It's been worth it? >> No Yeah.
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[laughter] No No regrets on any of this.
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At the end of the day, you make the decisions you're making.
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And you find the people in your life that you find, you know, your relationship, your marriage, over the last two albums, um continues to inform your writing in a really great way.
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Uh the you know, it toward the end of the record, there's even a nice guest appearance, I'd imagine, from your fellow that's time.
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[laughter] Undeniably Kiwi accent that rolls through.
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I'd be like, "Interesting.
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I'd be like, why don't you just work with Who's got a New Zealand accent?
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Why'd you roll this person in?"
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Uh very, very sweet, and it must have been really really nice to share that experience >> Yeah. >> with him. >> It really is.
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And and I think what's kind of like fun with with Estrogen throughout this album it is kind of is the first album where I'm writing about which I kind of didn't realize until I was listening through my whole discography when I was creating the setlist for a tour.
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And I like realized like oh, this is the first album where I'm not writing about just the beginning of a love or the end of it or the aftermath where it's about like the nuances of being with someone for 10 years.
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And I think that has like created a really nice kind of new sort of view on on love from just in general and then having his voice on there felt kind of I mean it's funny cuz that was just a voice note that he sent me when I was in Sweden working with Ludwig. And it's like 4:00 a. m. in Sweden.
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We're just like Ludwig has his bassline that's going and I'm supposed to writing melodies but I'm kind of like a bit drunk and zoning out a little and then I get this video from Charlie where he's filming this lizard that lives under the lavender in our house and I was just playing it and it worked his cadence worked so perfectly over the track that we just put it in there and then just that inspired the whole song. So it had to stay.
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>> And what's really cool as a Kiwi as well as to hear like cuz often even New Zealanders you know like even with the Grace Neil Finn sometimes he might roll his Kiwiisms his accent a little bit more into the pop structure.
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But it's a little less obvious.
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Whereas [laughter] hearing like a beautifully produced Swedish banger with this very thick New Zealand [laughter] accent on it is mad.
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It's like a pop paradox of epic proportions.
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>> I had so many questions like what who is why that like where is it from?
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Is it from some kind of movie?
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Like why did you choose that?
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I'm like it's my husband.
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>> It's just my husband like just marveling in nature talking about nature >> [laughter] >> and it just kind of worked as it as it should.
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I want to talk about the environment you made this record in, and you've been pretty clear about that.
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You know, you set out an environment where you could get as messy as you want to really explore parts of your life that perhaps you might have kept buttoned up.
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What What did that look like?
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What What was the environment like?
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I mean, okay, paint the picture for us.
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There's a table with some bottles on it. >> Yeah.
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>> [laughter] >> And how are you approaching this?
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>> Um so, it it's funny because it is it's in this um I wrote most of it in this small town, like this fishing village on the west coast of Sweden, where I would spend >> going back there?
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>> I just I think it has a lot of emotional triggers for me. Like both good and bad.
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I've so many and I've gone there my whole life.
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Even when like when I had a couple, you know, like um kind of burnt out moments in in the first year of my career, I went there just to like recover.
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And um I've been, you know, I've been uh I've had my heart broken there, I've been depressed there, I've had my first kiss there, I got drunk for the first time there.
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It's like all these kind of just like moments who are defining in life.
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And same thing like friends, relationships, everything like everything has gone through that place for me.
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So, um like I go there every year if I can, like um even just not to write, just to be there, you know?
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So, >> It's so funny cuz so many of us run from those places. >> Yeah, I know. >> I know.
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We're like, I don't need to go back there. >> No, I know.
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And I think as a >> I want more experiences elsewhere, you know?
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>> Yeah, and I think maybe because I travel so much and I'm never in one place for very long, coming back there and where it's also is like it's almost like I remember these hard moments in my life.
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Like this really like I said, like emotionally triggering.
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And so, I kind of but it gives me something to it stirs up inside.
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So, it's like good for me to go there and write.
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And also going in the off-season when no one's there, it's completely like empty.
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Um and but really beautiful stark nature and and um I have a studio in the basement there.
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>> Well, you're really setting You're really painting a a glamorous [laughter] picture here, man.
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I'm out there in the middle of winter in the driven country surrounded by ice cold waters in the basement of a studio [laughter] making pop music. >> go.
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Yeah, and but it's like I don't know.
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It yeah, it kind of sounds it's a bit eerie, but I think I like there's something Swedish about the sort of like not it being I mean it's a beautiful place, but not being so like romantic more kind of harsh and like you know, and then there's just yeah, bottles on the table lyric books um and then just all the people that I want to work with. It's quite simple. >> Mhm.
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And you feel good throwing out exactly how you feel in that room. unafraid >> filter. Very unafraid.
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Very like I sit and look at that the water and the sunset and it's like all these just like rock rocky beach and I can like things just like kind of oh, this is what I'm this is how I'm feeling.
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Oh, it makes sense now like I can I can I can make sense of everything that I've been like what's been frustrating me or like all these kind of this turmoil inside like I can make sense of it.
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>> You know, there's some this idea of of Sweden as the lexicon of pop culture for decades now decades.
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I mean it is absolutely the it is the the prime mover in pop music consistently.
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You are part of that lineage without a doubt.
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And what's fascinating is for all of this amazing wide open modern pop music that no one really realizes and I'd love to talk about is actually that harshness of Sweden and those 19-20 hour dark days.
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So what is it about this contrast between the music that jumps out of the speakers, but this place that feels like you just don't leave home for 8 months?
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>> [laughter] >> It's so it's really strange.
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I wonder if it's like the the focus it gives you because if you're just sitting like sitting in the darkness, you know, like like he's I'm sure he mentioned it's like the sun goes down like 2 or 3 in the afternoon and doesn't come back up until 9:00 a. m.
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like So when when we would walk to school it's dark.
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When you walk home it's dark.
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When you like go out for break it's like getting dark.
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Like you're just in this kind of dark bubble for months.
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And I think it kind of And that's just in Stockholm.
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Like if you go further north it's there's no sunlight for months.
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Um but I feel like the I wonder if it brings some kind of focus and maybe the sort of longing for something positive.
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>> I was going to say cuz [laughter] cuz maybe that explains the pop music because Sigur Ros sound like where they come from. >> Yeah. >> [laughter] >> True. >> Right? >> True. >> that makes sense.
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Björk from Iceland makes sense. >> Yeah, you're right. You're right.
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>> ABBA makes no sense over 20 hour dark day.
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Although they do make spooky pop music.
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>> Yeah, it's still you know, there's always a little bit of there's a hint of darkness.
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There's a sprinkle of sadness always.
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And I think maybe that's what like brings that like But also you know, Swedes are like we love to follow rules.
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We love to do things like properly.
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So feel like that maybe plays into like the we love to keep things simple.
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So maybe that plays into sort of the the simplicity and the directness of Swedish pop.
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But then >> explains the the generational impact you've had because it's like we've created this amazing template that the world loves.
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And then you're growing up into that template as it grows every time.
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So when it's handed to you, it's like do what you want with it.
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But this we know this works. Does that make sense?
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>> Yeah, and I also think that you have that template and then you break one little piece of it.
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Like you break one rule within that template that makes it sort of feel like oh, that was unexpected.
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And so you can like there's there's a there's like you stay within this kind of kind of broad frame, you know, in terms of pop.
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But then you kind of you like make these little little steps out that um and they have but they have to be exactly the right one and that's hard to figure out like >> you.
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>> Yes, they have to be very personal.
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>> That's the thing right they leave enough space for people to be able to say do what you want with it but just make sure you make it about you. >> Yeah, authentic.
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>> Make it as authentic as you.
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Do you feel the pressure as a writer and especially if you look back on when you got started and you think about about it with some perspective does the legacy of where you come from and the impact that the music and the musicians that inspired you from your own country does it weigh on you or do you carry that into your career or do you reject it?
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>> I think [snorts] I because when I when I started I wasn't like I feel like I wasn't as aware of the impact pop had had on me as I should have been you know I feel like I was like Robin and that's it it wasn't like I honestly until kind of this album where I was like wait what was I actually like like kind of going back and listen to the all the Swedish
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stuff that I listened to when I like was dreaming about being an artist which was obviously Robin and Niki Lee and Niki and the Dove and the Knife the Cardigans like that and I feel like there's so much that I think it's just like I think it's I'm unaware I'm unaware of how much it has shaped me as a writer if that makes sense but I feel like now now I know but in the beginning I had no idea. >> Cuz you are one of those people that's
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>> Cuz you are one of those people that's the other thing as well and and at at what point did you settle into your role in all of this and and and know and understand that like no matter what happens I have established my voice to a point where I acknowledge and not everybody else tells me hey you've arrived or you're here or this is great or this album's great or thank you but you were were comfortable in your place in all of this.
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>> I wonder if it was honestly maybe not until I went independent and I put out Dirt Femme.
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I think that's when I really felt like oh like I have like there's a place for me here that I can take up when I when I want to and if I want to and as long as the quality is high.
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And I you know, kind of have this I feel a very close relationship with my fans.
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Like I feel like they It feels very personal and they've grown up with me and I think it's like this place where like I have this platform with very loyal people who want to hear what I have to say.
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So, I think but I think going independent really helped me feel that that was in my control.
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>> It's a big step and and you know, a brilliant name Pretty Swede by the way in case you're wondering what the name of the label is.
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Kiwis love a play on words and that's a very good one.
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>> [laughter] >> I have to >> [gasps] >> We were brainstorming me and my Kiwi, so >> Of course it did.
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It is one of those kind of big steps in anyone's life especially if you've kind of benefited from using the infrastructure.
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So, you know, you don't need it. Right?
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To go out there and and to bank on that relationship to make it to make it work.
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>> And I think I really needed it in the beginning.
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Like I think the just the you know, how you release music now and how the the music industry looks is so different to when I put up my first you know, my first single yeah. What? 12 years ago now? Maybe even more.
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Yeah, I know 12 years ago and so, but I think at the time I really needed the infrastructure. I needed the muscle.
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But I think as you know, time goes on and I kind of you know, I've you just kind of I kind of grew out of that relationship.
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I just kind of needed to be on my own. Yeah.
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>> You made the right decision at the right time. I think >> I think so.
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>> You know, I think to your point I think it's about it's about managing the resources that people offer you and and and in this collaborative space knowing full well you you know, you're receiving the benefit of some of them and you're receiving the short change of some of them. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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then it's like, "Okay, I've got what I need out of this.
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Let me go and make the change long." >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly.
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>> me get let me get a much better percentage for myself and figure out how the I'm going to do this. >> Yeah.
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>> Um what's one of the most important things you've learned about taking that step aside from of of strengthening your the the the the relationship with your fans for people out there that are thinking about doing the same thing or maybe not even thinking about going into the into the infrastructure at all. >> Mhm.
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>> What's been a really valuable lesson for you? Backing yourself.
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>> I think just having complete creative control and like honestly trusting trusting your own like taste and your own view on your artistry.
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I think was really important to me to feel that like yes like validation is is great and you want obviously to your for your team and who's working your project to be on board with what you're doing.
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Like that makes it better for everyone, but I think really sort of trusting my gut and um and not waiting for waiting for answers, you know, to to validate my own opinion or like my my feelings around the songs and the project and and the creative.
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I think that's matter matter the most to me.
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Um but then I guess my feeling is just that like a lot from what I hear from fellow artists who maybe are kind of you know, in a in a in a deal in the infrastructure, but they're not the a priority of um their label.
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All they get to hear is like, "Well, we need you to do more more socials. You need to do this.
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I guess I I need to be you you should reach out to that artist about collaboration."
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And so so much of it still falls on you. >> Yes.
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>> So why even enter this infrastructure if you can if it's all on you anyway? >> Yes. Yes.
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>> [laughter] >> But the validation is beautiful, but then what but but then those days when something's not connecting having that translated to you through the filter of somebody whose priorities are different to yours can really adjust I think how you think about your music.
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Because if to your point it may take longer for a certain song or a certain album or a certain moment to connect, but if you can frame it the way that works for you without any influence, you give your music and your art way more space to do its thing.
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Whereas that can get cut off, I think, when people like we're on a clock.
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>> Yeah, and and I think now, too, like there's no rhyme or reason to when a song will have its moment.
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Like it might not be when you put all the muscle behind it, like here is my first single.
23:28
It might take a year and then all of a sudden people are resonating with it.
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So, that I also do I do love that with um the like how it is right now, like anything can take off any moment and I think that's pretty cool.
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>> Yeah, no, it's it's it's the closest thing to a ball in the barrel that we get where it's like, "Oh, your numbers up.
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Congratulations, you're having a moment." Death tones.
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Now, what are you going to do with it?
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[laughter] And they're like, "We are stacked and ready to go. Let's go do this."
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And they're just like and they're like, "Don't worry about [laughter] us."
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You tell us that's that's a moment, we got it. >> We got it. We're ready. >> We're good. We're good.
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[laughter] We'll be back in 5 years, very different.
24:04
Uh no, I do I love that I love that.
24:04
Can we talk about the tools on display?
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I only I don't bring this up with every artist because not everyone is as dialed in to where things are going.
24:13
And I I I feel like whether you acknowledge or not, there's a part of you that that is a futurist.
24:18
You do love to see what's available and what's possible.
24:19
I'm having really interesting conversations with people right now where this whole idea about the the tools available, um AI enhanced music creativity is starting to really it's getting really messy, which is good.
24:32
The conversation is getting messy. >> Yeah.
24:35
>> It's no longer just like, "I hate it. I love it."
24:37
It's like, "Well, I don't like that part of it, but I'm okay with that part of it.
24:42
And I'm just trying to use this to learn."
24:44
So, as a writer, as somebody who's looking for ways to just do great things, what do you stand on this right now, if I may ask?
24:52
>> So, I'm kind of in that that the messy place where me, personally, I don't I don't want to use it in my process. I love my process.
25:01
The whole reason I >> Mhm.
25:03
>> make music is is quite selfish, you know, like I need it.
25:05
I need to write what I need to get off my chest and I love sitting working on lyrics for weeks and, you know, tweaking melodies and like and I will say to me I think it just AI loses all sex appeal for me if like someone comes in oh, I I put the lyrics through AI and like this is what came back.
25:21
I'm like well, there goes my boner.
25:23
Like I'm kind of not into >> [laughter] >> into that sort of way of creating.
25:32
>> I [laughter] JUST WANT TO DO NOT LOSE THAT THOUGHT.
25:34
I JUST WANT TO say every now and then every once in a while somebody comes along and gives us something that ends up on the the board of the hall of fame, the board of fame.
25:43
>> [laughter] >> By the way, you also gave me the most amazing like follow-up to any AI conversation which gets heated and I'm get really bored of it which happens really fast.
25:51
As soon as it does I'll just be like, well, there goes my boner.
25:55
>> [laughter] >> I'm just going to get up and leave.
25:57
>> Just press that and go. >> I'm with you. [laughter] I'm with you.
26:02
>> But do you know what I mean though? >> I do. I do. I do.
26:05
And I'm trying to like I've held such a line on this. >> Mhm.
26:08
>> Both in public and personally in decisions I've made and opportunities I've been presented with from an AI point of view where I've turned down things which um in every other level would have only been beneficial. >> Yeah.
26:18
>> Because of that one thing in there, I'm like I'm not doing that. >> Yeah.
26:21
>> And part of it is because I truly believe that most of it.
26:23
But there is a small part of me that's like until I understand how the artists feel about it truly and how kids are using it in a way that makes sense to them. >> Yeah.
26:34
>> And that hasn't been figured out yet.
26:35
>> No, and I think that's the thing.
26:35
I think it's so individual and I'm I'm not like I think it's it's clearly an amazing practical tool.
26:41
But for some reason when it comes to creativity I just >> Mhm. >> yeah, I don't know.
26:46
I I have um creating something with it where it comes up for suggestions for me to use.
26:54
>> I just immediately I'm like, "No." >> Yeah.
26:56
>> I just I don't I don't think it's fun.
26:56
I don't think it's >> I just don't think I just don't I don't I'm so weird with this, and I appreciate you leaning in with me on this, especially cuz we got the boner out of it, which was amazing.
27:06
Uh >> Worth the conversation. >> 100%.
27:07
[laughter] Uh no, I I just I don't need anyone to fix music. >> No. Yes.
27:15
>> I like it when it's hard.
27:17
>> And why does it need to be efficient?
27:18
That's my main like creativity doesn't need to be efficient.
27:20
I think that's my number one thing with it.
27:21
I'm like, as at least I feel that way as a creative.
27:24
Like, why does it have to It should not have to move any faster.
27:27
>> Good stuff is is hiding from you.
27:29
And you've got to go there to get it, you know?
27:32
It's going to be really interesting future, and and I'm I I want to have more conversations like this, but um they will most of them will not give me that line.
27:41
>> [laughter] >> Have you enjoyed I I don't even know what your relationship is like from a collaborative point of view anymore, because I really only zero in on you.
27:50
We used to have far more of an even conversation about who you'd work with versus your own music, because it felt like there was far more space between There's far more of a relationship between those two things.
28:00
I don't honestly know how much time you allow yourself to go and work with other people anymore.
28:05
>> Like uh writing for other people, you mean? Yeah.
28:07
>> and being part of other people's projects.
28:09
>> I do I do it now now and again when I have uh when I have the like mental capacity for it.
28:14
Weirdly, I'm actually I'm doing um I'm actually going to do a full week of sessions for another artist's project um uh and I this week, which is like, you know, the middle of everything happening. >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
28:28
>> But sometimes I need that when I'm really, you know, uh I'm going on tour right now.
28:32
I'm like, you know, album is coming out.
28:34
Like, everything is so about me.
28:34
I can really be But I'm excited to be in the studio.
28:40
Then it's like really good for me to go in and work with someone else to kind of be not focused on myself for a second.
28:45
But it's not as I just haven't had as much time, you know?
28:48
And when I'm writing my own songs, I it's tricky for me to do both at the same time. >> Yeah. So >> Yeah.
28:56
>> And also I can imagine having achieved this record and being proud of it and knowing that it's going going to go and it's going really well.
29:04
It's almost like a bit of a busman's holiday, which is a term that basically just means like it it's kind of work, but really it's just a cool thing to do for a week. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Yeah.
29:13
>> come to LA here for a week.
29:15
>> And I just you know, I love writing, so let's do it, you know?
29:17
And I think it's um Yeah, I get very I'm lucky though that I can be I can be you know, picky and choosy with it.
29:25
>> Yeah, yeah, you got that right.
29:25
What you said you love writing, we talked a little bit about that, you know, taking the time and and diving deep and whatever.
29:31
What are the other stickiest parts of this process that really made it your lifelong passion and commitment?
29:35
The idea of finding words and finding melodies that express how you and others may feel.
29:42
>> It started when I when I went to this music high school in Sweden.
29:47
Um cuz I before that, I was always had a wild imagination.
29:51
I would always write a lot.
29:52
My teachers and like you know, junior high and stuff thought I was going to be a writer.
29:56
Like I would win all the little like um short essay contests and all that kind of stuff.
30:03
Uh but when I started singing properly and like kind of um and I I realized how little I knew about music other than that I liked to sing when I started this music school.
30:11
And I was like the worst singer of everyone who got in cuz >> And [laughter] you got in how? >> I had good grades.
30:16
So it was they were they did you got in it was a public school, but you got in based on your audition and your grades.
30:21
And I think my audition was probably pretty bad, but then my grades were prob- maybe higher than a lot of the creatives in that school.
30:29
So then I >> Okay, basically you got enrolled for funding because >> [laughter] >> because you don't get funding out of people's talent alone, you get funding out of grades. >> Yes.
30:40
>> Congratulations, to the school and we get our funding. >> Yes, exactly.
30:42
It was like, "See, people do study here."
30:45
>> Yeah, [laughter] exactly.
30:45
>> Um no, but so when I and then you know, when I started singing and I could like, you know, I'm like, "Oh, wow, everyone's so good."
30:51
And then I would just hear these, you know, all these young and teenagers writing songs and being like, "Yeah, this is actually a song that I wrote."
30:57
I'm like, "Everyone's writing songs? Like, what am I doing?"
30:58
And I kind of just started like I would you could borrow these like after school you could borrow all these rooms um that would have a piano or guitar in them.
31:08
You can sit in there as they said they were called writers' rooms.
31:10
I would just have go in there after school by myself and just start to try like playing keys and like and then from that second like all my journals kind of changed from diary to lyrics.
31:21
And so I think that it's gone hand in hand for a very long time where it's like they if it's just always this like cathartic for me to to write that way.
31:32
>> Some people a lot of people would like to know what the difference is between diary entries and lyrics.
31:38
>> I think um the only difference for me is that I make sure that they, you know, uh that there's a cadence or that they rhyme or that there's like, you know, there's a format to to the lyrics.
31:49
But the uh I would say it's getting my thoughts down in a more clever way than if I'm just like writing without thinking.
31:59
>> Right, yeah, just dumping, emotionally dumping. >> Yeah, exactly.
32:02
>> Are there other tricks to this that you are comfortable expressing or talking about?
32:05
Or not even tricks, but just constants, things that you know when you sit down and perhaps you walk in a room and and perhaps someone's looking at you and it's like, "Hey, we've we've had this arrangement for a few days.
32:14
Let's try and figure this out."
32:15
And you know you're almost there, but you can rely on a few things you picked up along the way that help you unlock stuff or help you find the melody.
32:21
Just the the craft of writing.
32:24
>> Yeah, so I think I think the hardest part is I think it's kind of easy to write like, "Here's a good song."
32:32
But to write an amazing song that makes you feel something, um that's like if if you if you write a song that follows all the rules, okay?
32:41
Like the little like kind of tricks that I would say a lot of Swedish people writers and you know pop people use.
32:48
Where is like Okay, if the verse starts on the one melody-wise, the pre should start on the downbeat or on the the pickup.
32:55
So that they're not all starting on the same spot cuz that for some reason makes each part not hit the as hard.
33:03
>> So it's like I fell in love with you.
33:06
That's why I do the [laughter] thing I do. Right right right. >> They go perfect.
33:10
And I think that that is something if but you don't think about that as you're writing.
33:15
You just kind of like you know you come up with melodies and like this feels good this feels good.
33:18
But then you're like oh every part feels good but it's something just isn't quite like why doesn't the pre-chorus hit when it when it comes in?
33:25
Oh, should we try putting it on you know starting on the upbeat or starting on the downbeat like whatever.
33:32
And that kind of that those are tricks that I use sometimes when I feel like something is not quite hitting but I don't know what it is.
33:38
And same thing if the whole song is on you know singing too much of the same notes.
33:44
But I only notice that like that's after.
33:46
You know like you're saying like okay, the song is really strong there's something really special here but what why doesn't it feel why isn't the chorus hitting as hard as we it does when we're just playing it alone?
33:54
Like why doesn't it feel good after the pre-chorus?
33:56
Then you kind of then you go in and do the little edits.
33:59
And I notice a lot of And sometimes one song can be one note all the way through and it feels perfect.
34:04
For some reason it just works.
34:06
You don't have to change it if it's working.
34:07
This is only if you feel like something isn't quite hitting right.
34:09
And I can notice sometimes when I work with some artists or writers they just get they panic when the Swedes start to like turn over every stone and like no but let's try this and we should we you know and like really zone in on one little section for hours you know cuz they're scared to like lose the magic but I love doing all that stuff.
34:29
It's just like you can always go back.
34:31
You have what you have and then you can play with it until you feel that feeling.
34:36
>> That's so [laughter] fascinating.
34:36
And I know there are people who watching this who are going to feel whether they write or not. >> Mhm.
34:42
>> It's going to be it's really beautiful to get under the hood a little bit like that.
34:45
Who have you Who's Who would you say out of anybody or maybe one of the people that you've worked with and it doesn't even have to be from a sort of goated level. >> Mhm.
34:54
>> But just someone a peer or a contemporary that you've been in the room with that you've gone either on your own music or on their music like oh, I see what you're put I'm going to pick up what you're putting down.
35:04
Like I see you're really good. Like that's really good. You get it.
35:12
>> I mean so many, but like just because I feel like I learned so much from I have to say Max Martin because he does like he's so he I mean he has had so many huge songs, but I feel like he has still so much love for music. He's not jaded.
35:30
He's not blasé about music in the slightest.
35:32
He if it's a good song, he gets so excited.
35:39
And he also is like he kind of taught me that like we can always go back.
35:43
Let's just try and see if this and like so patient and really like >> So the you is often me before.
35:48
You were like talking about people getting frustrated a little bit worried and then were you [laughter] actually putting yourself in that space?
35:53
You've been one of those people. >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
35:56
Um and like that like early on it was like, you know, I would present a song and he's like what if you did this to the pre-chorus and I'd be like you know, and and he could see it in my face and he's like, I'm just we're just playing around.
36:07
Like we can always keep it as as it was.
36:09
This is just an idea for you to try.
36:10
If if you like it, you know.
36:13
And I think because also early on even finishing a song feels like such an accomplishment.
36:17
They're like, I finished it. I wrote all the lyrics. I did all the things.
36:21
So when someone comes in and starts to like pull at that, you know, pull at the threads, you're like, no, no, no, no, no, no, no."
36:25
You know, but um I But then also someone that I kind of just like I think I've talked about uh this before, but when I did um write Homemade Dynamite with Lord, >> Mhm.
36:37
>> watching her do her lyric like lyrical magic was so I just sat there kind of mouth open like, "Wow."
36:44
I've never heard anyone describe a car crash so beautifully. Like, yeah. >> I know.
36:48
She did this >> Like, always comes to mind, yeah.
36:50
>> Yeah, and I will say this is one of those ones I say again and again.
36:53
There's pop music before Lord and there's pop music after.
36:55
>> Yeah, I agree with that 100%.
36:57
>> You know, there's something that happened the way that she was able to write songs that spoke about her own age group. >> Yeah. Yes. So poetically.
37:01
It was like it just the Uh there's that line in um Is it in Team?
37:08
Where she talks about like the like the boy's skin like shine like craters in the moon, like describing their teenage acne.
37:14
And I just Yeah, it's so beautiful.
37:17
Like >> And even that moment when she's like, "Let's go down to the tennis court."
37:20
Like, and just sit around and talk like in a circle.
37:22
And it's like most of the time when I was growing up, we rejected that.
37:25
We looked for people older than us to tell us where life was going.
37:28
And it was awesome when Lorde came along and she was like, "Hey, this is where life's at." >> Yeah, exactly. >> You know. >> Exactly that. Yeah. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> She's amazing.
37:37
>> What song um on this album, when you talked about the accomplishment, taking a step back and realizing like, okay.
37:44
And I'm sure that you feel this way about all of them.
37:46
But was there one immediately after the fact where you were like, okay, I pushed myself there.
37:51
Like, I got something that made me uncomfortable and I'm ready to let it go. >> Yeah. Um I'm like, every song. >> Every song. No, that's true though.
37:56
This album's very honest.
37:58
Talks about them as well.
38:00
>> I I will say um If I could I would.
38:04
>> I was just literally looking at that one.
38:06
>> [laughter] >> Definitely that.
38:07
Um It has it's like it's kind of I'm singing to the uh my mean perfectionist inside.
38:17
Like, it's it's something I was, you know, been told a lot in therapy that I have these two sides that one is this kind of uh harsh, cold perfectionist who wants everything to be perfect, there can be no mistakes, like whatever I do it's not good enough.
38:33
And the other one is this messy, disruptive um love to lose control um following your impulse kind of person.
38:43
And um those I was trying to I'm trying to balance those uh and I still haven't figured out how to do that, but that's just kind of uh I've learned to sort of accept that uh the older I get.
38:51
And I always I've also noticed that I'm actually more happy when I'm leaning more into the messy side of me than the perfectionist side of me because the messy side of me is more forgiving, not as mean.
39:03
So um but this song I'm I'm singing to this kind of uh controlled, disciplined um perfect version who uh whose whose validation I still want and whose attention I still want.
39:17
And it's that kind of um uh and I think it really uh I really go, you know, far into the to the lyrics there where I'm like being very truthful.
39:28
>> Oh yeah, I mean talk obsession of Ribs I Count New Perfection I Deal in Mind.
39:30
I'm so desperate to be your kind. Where's your empathy?
39:33
It's a powerful powerful collection of thoughts, feelings.
39:37
How much of Have you figured out where that combination comes from?
39:41
Is it something as as, you know, kind of esoteric as for most people as, you know, is it astrological, do you think, or is it nature nurture?
39:49
If so, how much of it's nature, how much of it's nurture, this idea of these two sides of you that are in in in conflict? >> Mhm.
39:55
I think it's nature nurture maybe in that I am I'm naturally this messy girl, but I grew up in such a perfectionist environment that I'm still trying to battle being like I'm still I'm still kind of trying to be There's some part of me that thinks I should be that way. Do you know what I mean?
40:16
And um so yeah, I think it's that and then I don't know. I'm a Scorpio.
40:20
I don't know if that plays into this character at all. >> out? >> Yes.
40:25
[laughter] Let's dig into my chart.
40:28
No, but I feel like I think it's to me it's the the battle of nature and nurture almost.
40:33
>> How has how has has the sort of growth that you've experienced throughout life and acknowledging and accepting through the work you do and the and the solidifying of the the solidifying relationships in your life how does that reflect upon the people who know you best?
40:50
Upon the people that raised you in a nature environment probably saw Sorry, in the nurture environment saw your natural side. I don't know.
41:01
Like how is that balance for them seeing that happen over time?
41:05
>> I think I think it was it was funny because my I think my my my parents are constantly worried still, [laughter] but they've accepted that I do something that they don't understand.
41:22
But my dad he actually said something.
41:26
I'm quite similar to my dad actually.
41:29
He said something very beautiful to me after the last tour I did when they came to my show in LA for Dirt Femme and he said um you know, when they see me up there I'm wearing you know, this corset with boobs and a dick on it. Like I'm running around. I'm flashing my boobs.
41:43
Like I'm doing all the things that I do on stage.
41:47
You know, I sing, I cry, I scream, all those things.
41:48
And he just says to me, he's like, I I think you're the bravest person I know.
41:54
And I think that was so beautiful to come from someone who I think had a really hard time with my choices in life, you know?
42:02
>> You dropped that on me after two days of revelry at a wedding?
42:06
>> [laughter] >> I don't have the serotonin barriers to be able to protect myself from >> working really hard not to cry.
42:11
I mean, I was bawling when he said that, obviously.
42:14
It was a very um >> cuz cuz do you think >> It was very beautiful.
42:18
>> Cuz you're Iggy Pop to me.
42:20
Do you know what I mean when I say that? >> I do. I love that.
42:23
>> Like that's who you are to me is you're just like it's just all there for the taking.
42:29
If it's going to If it's going to make you connect what I'm trying to feel on the stage right here. >> Yeah.
42:35
>> And I guess in those moments he saw that. >> Yeah.
42:38
>> He's finally saw like I get it.
42:41
>> And it's really I'm like I'm working really hard not to join you in this space. >> Oh, it's tough.
42:45
>> [laughter] >> So sweet.
42:46
>> Um but it is really and I think it's like it was it was a really it really like stayed with me in such a beautiful way because it felt like, you know, um they they have tried so hard to be accepting and not judgmental of what I do, the way I express myself, how I sing so much about, you know, drugs and sex and being this kind of unhinged, you know, hedonistic kind of person in this in ways when they also know me as their, um insecure daughter.
43:16
So, I think that like that creates a kind of worry for them, obviously. >> the fear sits, right? >> Yeah. Yeah.
43:22
And so, they remember me being this, you know, moody, insecure troublemaker and then also, um they're like but I just, you know, walked my own path and was like, I don't care what anyone says.
43:33
So, I think they uh that was a really special moment.
43:36
So, I think it's it's gone full circle to the place where like we're so connected again and they're uh really proud of me, obviously.
43:43
Even and they still say like, we have no idea what you're doing.
43:46
We don't know why you, you know, uh make some of the choices you make, but we're so proud of you and on this album, we love this song.
43:54
Won't listen to DNH much, but we, you [laughter] know, it's a very um so, it's it's in a really uh I would say uh wholesome place.
44:06
>> [laughter] >> So, so without giving away too much, but just giving a little more insight to this cuz I'm fascinated by this kind of paradox of of of the messy and the and the perfectionist. >> Mhm.
44:14
>> Um how did your therapist help you do find increased balance in that space?
44:19
>> So, I think she what she helped me to do was cuz the the the therapist that kind of like acknowledged that with me the first time.
44:27
I mean, I've been in therapy my whole life.
44:29
Um and and I I think it's it's something everyone should do uh at least once or twice. >> If you can, for sure. >> If you can, yes.
44:37
Um and I think the the main part where I when I went to her at first, it was to like get my eating disorder under control. >> Yeah.
44:47
>> And as I think most people who have struggled with that knows, it's not about actual food or what you look like.
44:53
It's about something deeper.
44:53
So, but you have to start with breaking the behavior and the pattern.
44:57
And what she said was like I can, you know, I feel like you feel so much shame over this and you're you're kind of really um angry with yourself from from one side of you and the other side just wants to like um it but it's but you keep like so sort of like climbing back out of the hole and then you fall back in and it's this constant battle of these two >> Yeah.
45:21
>> two sides and she was kind of like you need to think about what what is either sides like intention with you, you know?
45:28
One side is just trying to make you be better, but she's coming at it the wrong way.
45:34
And the other side is just um trying to break free from that and she's but she's not coming at it in the right way.
45:41
So, you kind of need to listen to both sides like what are what are their intentions with you?
45:45
And um even just like having that thought kind of helped me, you know, um when like the the kind of um beating myself up kind of side we gets too strong, it's like, "Well, she's just trying she's just worried."
45:56
You know, [laughter] kind of almost thinking about it as uh two people battling inside kind of kind of helped. Yeah.
46:03
>> Yeah, cuz and also the way the body absorbs the trauma and stress of things you go through.
46:09
Often what like even when you drink or you do things it's it's actually to avoid the physical pain, I think sometimes.
46:15
>> And it's something that I've gotten a lot better at.
46:17
It's like to not do to not like act out in terms of just like any substance I can lay my hands on if I'm going through something hard.
46:26
Like only only to enhance.
46:29
Like if I'm in a bad place, don't don't do any stupid You know, kind of it's kind of simple and I think that's helped me stay more balanced also.
46:39
>> Yeah, cuz look, I mean, I hand on heart I'm one of those people who got to know you at the very beginning. We've talked every time. >> Yeah. Yeah.
46:47
>> And I was one of those >> You've known me for years now. Yeah. Yeah.
46:50
>> And I was one of those people in those early conversations that when if you brought that energy in of like, "Hey, I haven't been to sleep for 2 days."
46:58
And and maybe I couldn't see past it enough to know that you were running from something.
47:02
It wasn't my place at the start.
47:03
It happens when you get to know someone over time we can have this in a safe place. >> Yeah.
47:08
>> I'd be like, "All right, party time's here.
47:11
You're two to two, party time's here."
47:13
You know, and you'd be like, "All right, I'm going to play up to I'm going to play up to that." >> Yeah. Yeah.
47:16
>> But it's like you're right.
47:16
It can it can totally it you will run so far as you will trip and fall flat on your face over and over again. >> And and I did.
47:24
I mean, it was like it was and and I do think I have been thankfully good at like staying kind of right at the I I crossed the line quite a few times, I think, but I also I also did I was good at pulling myself back, you know, and kind of because I I think which I that's where I think the perfectionist because she would be like, "You're This is going to disappoint so many in your life.
47:53
Just like remember for Like people do like count on you."
47:57
And I think that kind of helped to sort of don't do this like don't go too far because just think about how they'll feel kind of especially with my parents.
48:06
>> But you think you miss you miss this without that handbrake you miss this you could have been living a pretty hedonistic life. >> Yes. Yes.
48:12
I think and I also think my my voice being my voice reacting really strongly to to a certain way of life.
48:20
You know how like some some rock stars can just do whatever and but they can always sing. that's on me.
48:23
And I think singing is like my main place of happiness.
48:28
So when I when I would lose my voice or they would that really was as like a savior for me cuz then it was like if you do this too much like you lose your voice then you can't do the one thing you love.
48:37
So there's that like a I could I could see that sort of at least I could you know I could notice that correlation so that I would then kind of get myself together a little bit.
48:50
>> One more stop on this ride though cuz this is a really really important song and I want to talk about it which is Source of Life.
48:54
I'm obsessed with the way albums end. >> Mhm.
48:58
>> I'm obsessed with the way they start the arc and the ending.
49:00
I know having done this my whole life and having talked about it my whole life how important it is to anyone who creates a body of work that it exists with some kind of feeling to it from top to bottom and there's a there's a there's a flow.
49:14
Even when people throw that away I know deep down man you didn't just Come on.
49:18
You took you took your time on that. >> Yes.
49:20
This last song I think matters as much as the first song.
49:23
It's like the whole is like yeah it's the the the bow it ties it all together.
49:28
>> Well well the first one is like there's a there's a lot of self-awareness going on there at at the um it it you know there in how do I put this?
49:38
I'm aware of what I'm going through and I have no clue how to solve any of it.
49:42
But at least I'm aware of it. >> Yes.
49:45
>> So how is how does that how does that statement at the beginning of the album relate to Source of Life at the end?
49:51
>> Maybe that I can feel that I'm like searching for something more or like I'm I'm curious about what more adventure I could go on and what like what new what what's that new stage of life, you know.
50:13
And but I'm I don't know if I'm ready for it.
50:16
I think the beginning is that like I don't know like there I have all these feelings but I don't know what to do with them and I don't know if I want to listen to what my body's telling me.
50:24
It's like all that frustration, right?
50:27
And then the end is kind of like the sliver of hope that but maybe I am.
50:31
>> Uh I'll just give you my perspective as a parent. >> Yes, please.
50:34
>> Um he says as he clams up.
50:38
Even when you're ready and already, you know, and that's the thing.
50:39
But I I I can relate to the song because I very quickly came to that conclusion myself before we had started having kids.
50:47
Which was like, I don't know if I can just just focus on my own any more.
50:56
>> [laughter] >> You know what I mean?
50:57
I think I've exhausted myself with myself.
51:00
I'm sort of boring myself now to the point of tears, really. You know?
51:04
And and then the next stop on that road is my wife will get bored of me, too, and then that'll be it.
51:10
Yeah, you know what I mean?
51:10
And so >> [laughter] >> and you're right, there are lots of ways you can address that.
51:13
It's not just about, you know, leaning into to the obvious next step of life, which is the evolution of that that experience.
51:17
But I love that again in the most honest way you do address it.
51:23
Um want something new, something with you. You know what I mean?
51:25
It's it's really powerful.
51:28
>> And I think that's kind of what I've what what I've realized is that I want like if I've never dreamt of family.
51:37
I've never It's never been something I've I've never dreamt of a wedding, having that like it's never been about even like having a a in my life.
51:46
I've kind of been that I'll just be that kind of fun aunt who shows up with like really colorful hair and is like let guess where I've been.
51:53
Like I don't know how to kind of >> just keep it I'm going to [laughter] keep it moving is what you're saying.
51:57
You guys slow down, I'll keep it moving. >> moving, exactly.
51:59
But then I met someone who was like, "Well, if and then those feelings started to kind of, you know, after 10 years >> Yeah.
52:08
>> with him like maybe we should have like one cuz I do feel like having kids almost feels like the final boss of adventures.
52:14
>> It's pretty It is pretty adventurous.
52:17
>> it's very adventurous.
52:17
And I kind of am like if there's anyone I should do this with, it's with the Charlie.
52:22
You know, that's how how I I really feel that very strongly.
52:25
And so I think it's almost more about it being with him than my body being like, "Have a baby."
52:32
You know, it's that it's it's it's about him. Yeah. >> That's so beautiful. >> So romantic.
52:41
>> [laughter] >> Well, wait until you have them this >> It was a very fun one.
52:48
>> [laughter] >> I'm going to be like this for 3 days.
52:53
>> [laughter] >> Oh, I love it.
52:55
>> I mean, the artwork says everything, really. >> Yes. >> It does.
52:58
>> It's all of that embodied in one image. Yeah. >> I mean, it's >> Yes.
53:02
>> It's this It's this very timeless, amazing, striking pose with red bottoms at the altar of something that, you know, feels very timeless and historic almost gothic.
53:16
>> Yeah, I love seeing it this big. Like yeah. >> Yeah, it's epic.
53:20
>> And I think it's also this like the whole it's kind of embodying all three parts of sort of the, you know, being in a place of conformity, breaking free, shedding that skin, and then like moving towards becoming my inner feral self. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> You know?
53:38
>> Yeah, but it's also like it's a really interesting take on on on worshipping at the altar of >> Yeah. things.
53:46
>> Cuz it's, you know, obviously it's sexy as well.
53:47
I mean, you know, the hair and the the shoes and the whole you've got all these things that are in there that are like, "But I'm a pop star, dude, [laughter] and I provoke and shock.
53:56
And I'm here to titillate in the best way, right?" >> That's the point. That's the goal. That's the dream.
54:04
>> You're [laughter] really good at it.
54:05
We've been talking for an hour and it's felt like 5 minutes. >> What? I love talking to you. >> Oh, always. >> Always. Always.
54:13
I I'm so grateful that through the music that you make, we always talk like we've never talked before, if you know what I mean.
54:22
Like, it's like it's strange thing of picking up where we left off, but but there's so much to talk about.
54:27
I never feel like it's exhausting or we talk >> like it's like you're you're you're always coming with me on a like a new stage in my life.
54:33
So then we talk about that new stage. Yeah. >> It's awesome.
54:37
It's the best part-time friendship of all time. >> Exactly. [laughter]