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Optimal, minimal.
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At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking.
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1:41
Hello ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls.
1:43
This is a very exhausted Tim Ferriss and welcome to The Tim Ferriss Show. So glad to have you.
1:52
You know, I am one tired son of a right now and I couldn't be happier about it because I've been flying around the country doing various experiments and I had the opportunity to go to Palm Beach, Florida to sit at the home of Tony Robbins and ask him just about everything I've ever wanted to ask him.
2:14
And this is a very special interview for me.
2:17
This is the interview, the conversation I've wanted to have for 15 years and now that I'm back in SF gathering myself, drinking some what appears to be laughing coyote tea.
2:28
I've no idea what's in it.
2:32
Could be all sorts of drugs, psilocybin.
2:35
Uh and I'm thrilled to be putting this out there for you because Tony is a fascinating character.
2:42
For those of you who don't know him, he has consulted or advised leaders including Nelson Mandela, Mikhail Gorbachev, Margaret Thatcher and Mother Teresa.
2:51
He's consulted members of two royal families, US Congress, US Army, US Marines, three US presidents including Clinton and other celebrity clients would include names you know like Serena Williams, Andre Agassi, Greg Norman of course the golf legend, Leonardo DiCaprio and Oprah Winfrey who calls him superhuman.
3:12
The stat that always just sends my head spinning is that Tony has developed and produced five award-winning infomercials.
3:20
That's of course how a lot of people came to know of him.
3:22
And these infomercials have continuously aired on average every 30 minutes, 24 hours a day somewhere in North America since check it out April 1989.
3:38
It's just Tony TV out there 24/7. Insanity.
3:43
This particular conversation is broken into basically three parts.
3:48
The first third of our very long conversation involves me asking him the questions I've always been dying to ask him ever since I first was exposed to his material and I explain a lot of the background which is kind of hilarious uh when we get started.
4:05
The second third and the third third uh would and of course uh along the way we talk about his daily routines, the types of questions that he asks world-class performers and so on.
4:18
The latter portions of this uh focus on what Tony has been researching and and really teasing apart and analyzing for the last uh well, several decades but especially last four years and that is how do you master the game of money?
4:36
Why is there so much financial illiteracy and how do you stack the deck so that you can win because there's a lot of hijinks and there's a lot of nonsense out there.
4:46
How do you actually invest?
4:49
What do you do with your money?
4:50
And it's a huge topic but he has interviewed and in fact coached some of the most unbelievable minds in the world of finance and investing.
5:00
I couldn't believe the list uh including people like Paul Tudor Jones, Ray Dalio who's of course a a a a wiz in the world of hedge funds and the the list is unbelievable.
5:13
Carl Icahn, David Swensen who turned 1 billion into I think 23 billion for Yale.
5:21
Uh some curious characters like Marc Faber, uh Sir John Templeton, Kyle Bass who became very very famous for uh in effect predicting and shorting uh the the subprime crisis or at least he he made his fortune one of his fortunes in uh in in seeing that through through the looking glass.
5:44
These are these are the the the Navy SEALs, the uh the the the top of the top and he has been able to ask them just about everything that you would want to ask them and a lot of what Tony's going to say is controversial or counterintuitive.
6:02
No doubt you'll disagree with some of what he says but I guarantee you even if you don't care about investing or you think you don't care about investing.
6:11
And by the way, if you've decided not to think about investing, that is a decision in investing.
6:18
I guarantee that if you listen to this entire conversation uh which I plan to listen to over and over again.
6:23
It's it has a lot of information that you will take away at least one or two things from Tony that lead you to say holy I've never looked at that aspect of my life that way.
6:36
And it'll turn things upside down and you will walk away with a completely different lens through which you can look at how you're living, how you're handling your business and I think you will find tremendous value from this single interview.
6:55
So, I will leave it at that.
6:58
You know, I don't want to oversell it.
6:59
I will say that for me uh Tony can be an intimidating guy just in sheer size.
7:06
He's a big dude and he can actually palm my entire face and uh we have a photograph of that that I'll share but I get into that in the interview.
7:15
Uh he's also very seasoned pro and I have a lot of respect for him.
7:17
So, it takes me five or 10 minutes I'd say.
7:19
Uh let's just say 10 minutes to find my feet in this interview.
7:22
When we hit our stride, then all sorts of gems come out and there's a lot of good material in the beginning but give it some time. Be patient.
7:30
Listen to this whole thing. It is worth your time.
7:34
So, without further ado, I think I've had too much laughing coyote tea. Here's Tony Robbins.
7:44
All right ladies and gentlemen, this is Tim Ferriss.
7:46
Welcome to another episode of The Tim Ferriss Show.
7:47
I have a very exciting episode for you and a very exciting guest, Mr. Tony Robbins.
7:51
Tony, thank you for having me in your home of all places. I'm glad to be home.
7:57
That's a rare thing much less to have you here.
7:59
Grateful to have you here as well.
8:01
And we have many different topics.
8:01
I have many different questions I'd love to delve into.
8:06
Of course I perhaps unbeknownst to a lot of my fans have a long history with Tony Robbins but not in person. This is the first.
8:13
And for those of you who don't know some of the background, when I first graduated from school and moved to Silicon Valley to chase the billions that seemed just that they were being handed out in '99 uh I was in '99.
8:29
In '99 and they were in a way and I was driving a hand-me-down beat-up green minivan from my mom.
8:34
Uh the seats got stolen from inside or at least the back.
8:39
So, all my coworkers started uh harassing me and calling it the molester mobile.
8:42
And the the job, the company didn't seem to be a long-term fit for me and when I was on a road trip at one point I bought Personal Power.
8:50
May have been Personal Power II. Yes.
8:52
And I started listening to it to and from work on my commute which is terrible for those who don't know the Bay Area. If you're on 101 Yes.
9:00
between San Jose and SF, it's uh horrible.
9:03
And ultimately that was one of the catalysts for me starting my first company. So, Wow.
9:08
I'm really touched by that knowing all that you've done.
9:10
That really touches touches me completely cuz you've been an inspiring character to me. Oh.
9:14
Um not the 4-Hour Workweek cuz I don't I'm looking for the 4-Hour Sleep Week at this stage.
9:18
I'd like to be able to pull that one off.
9:20
Uh but but really I think the way you attack subjects and that's what you do. You don't look at them.
9:25
You go after mastery of them and the way you experiment and the way you constantly dig underneath to find the organizing principles.
9:32
I feel a kinship with you.
9:33
Um we're in different stages of life and things like that but I have enormous respect for you and I don't feel that way about everybody.
9:38
I like everybody but I respect everybody.
9:39
You deserve the respect uh cuz you go deep.
9:41
Most people are really they're they're surface level in what they do.
9:45
So, um excited to chat with you and see what can come out of this conversation.
9:49
Thank you for sure and I have of course a bunch of self-interested questions that I think will also be interesting to other folks hopefully.
9:54
Uh but what's always impressed me about your entire career and the results that you've achieved is how far you've been able to take it in terms of working with, say, the top 1% of performers in the world.
10:09
And I I read in your your new book, which everyone should take a look at.
10:14
We'll be delving into it a lot more as we progress in the interview.
10:17
But, there was a quote from Mr. Benioff. Yes.
10:22
Salesforce, and who credits you with effectively if if there were no Tony Robbins, there would be no salesforce. com.
10:29
It'd be quite quite a claim to make.
10:31
I don't think he might have told me exaggerated, but he he kind of walked me through cuz it started very much like you, him on the freeway in the valley every day listening.
10:37
And you get these you're able to reach such a high caliber of individual.
10:45
When you meet with such people, whether they're presidents, athletes like Serena Williams, Agassi, actors like Hugh Jackman, whoever it might be.
10:54
Um, Benioff's quote was, you know, Tony said to me that the quality of my life was the quality of my questions.
10:58
So, what I would be curious to know is when you meet with these top performers, where do you start?
11:04
What are the questions that you ask them?
11:08
Well, I ask questions before I meet them.
11:09
The question I want to ask before I meet them is who are they? What are they made of? What are they after?
11:15
What's preventing them from getting it? Where are their wounds?
11:19
What is their deepest pride?
11:19
Not in a negative way, like what are they proud of?
11:22
Try to find as much as I can in advance so that I can be really effective and efficient when I meet them.
11:27
When you meet somebody, yourself, myself, the most valuable thing we have is our time.
11:31
So, I try to be beyond respectful of that, but also I load my brain with all distinctions I can so that when I enter into an interaction with someone I'm more engaged, I have disproportionate amount of information, ideas, insights, wisdom available to me.
11:47
And then I can react to what's really happening in this moment.
11:48
So, I have what I think in advance and then I have what what the moment shows me.
11:51
And I I I I think the blend of that is really valuable cuz in the moment people can show up in all kinds of ways. Right.
11:58
You know, somebody can show up the meanest person on earth can be kind in the moment. Yeah.
12:01
The kindest person can be very mean in the moment.
12:03
So, I really I like I like to grab both those.
12:06
And then what I want to do when I meet them is I want to try and understand what is it that they really need, not only what they want. Right.
12:13
Um, because what you want, I'm sure you've experienced this, I have in my life gotten what you want and then you're like, is that all there is?
12:20
It's like, what the hell? Right.
12:20
Um, because what really makes us fulfilled is your needs. What we need.
12:24
And there's only so many needs.
12:25
So, I dig under what the needs are.
12:27
I look at what's their model of the world, how do they approach meeting those needs?
12:30
And every model has limitations and challenges, mine, yours, anybody's.
12:34
And so that tells me before I even meet them where the real challenge is.
12:37
And then I listen for what the surface challenge is.
12:38
And my goal is solve the surface challenge, but also give them more than they bargained for, solve the deeper challenge.
12:44
And ultimately, my goal is that they have a greater quality of life.
12:47
And most people I work with have an extraordinary quality of life. They may not realize it.
12:52
They may have forgotten it or have lost track of it.
12:53
Unless I'm dealing with somebody, which I also deal with, who's, you know, coming back from Afghanistan with PTSD and they've got light sensitivity and they can't sleep at night.
13:01
They wake up in cold sweats and they're shaking while they're talking to me. That's a different game.
13:05
Boom, you know, that's something's got to be dealt with in a different way.
13:07
But, when you're talking about peak performers, their challenges are usually they're hungry for more. Right?
13:10
That's the nature of probably people listening to this.
13:14
They're going to listen to Tim Ferriss, they're going to listen for more.
13:17
They say, "Give me something beyond what everybody else is talking about."
13:20
And then you're always seeking to try and find that by not limiting it to yourself, same as myself.
13:23
Let's go find whoever's best in these areas and let's pull it together and let's find the organizing principles that codify this.
13:30
So, I'm looking to figure out, you know, what is that more that they want and or what is it that's stopping them?
13:35
And then I I go into the experience and just absorb what's there.
13:38
And the combination of the two is how I'm able to usually get pretty extraordinary results.
13:41
But, without the prep, what most people know about me is the level of prep I do. Right.
13:46
Like, I can get up and with my pinky do 6 days in a row without, you know, a note or anything of that nature at this stage.
13:52
That's not intelligence, that's experience.
13:53
That's the 40,000 hours, not 10,000 hours, you know, over the years.
13:57
But, um, I still prep cuz I what I do is I activate in my nervous system that knowledge base of what I want to be able to serve somebody with.
14:04
I try to bring that to the surface so it's readily available.
14:06
It's the difference between emotional intelligence and what I call emotional fitness.
14:10
Emotional intelligence is the key Intelligence is the capability to deliver something.
14:14
Fitness is the readiness to be able to make that happen.
14:16
So, I I'm more interested in being emotionally fit or being emotionally fit for that person in the moment.
14:22
And when you when you interact with people, for instance, Paul Tudor Jones, Yes.
14:26
a legendary investor and trader, Yes.
14:28
or Agassi, or anyone who's at the peak of their game and suddenly enters a slump. Yes.
14:33
Uh, what are the commonalities, if any, that you've spotted in the best of the best who then cease for a period of time being the best of the best?
14:44
What triggers that type of down slope?
14:46
Well, everyone's got different triggers.
14:48
There's some common patterns.
14:49
One pattern is doing so well that you go beyond your vision.
14:54
And you know, it's the astronaut syndrome.
14:56
You know, what do you do when you've, you know, you're 31 years old, you you flew to the top of the mountain, right on top, literally look back at the earth inside a picture we've all seen photographed, come back, shake the president's hand, have a ticker tape parade, and okay, now what do you do with the rest of your life?
15:11
And so most of those astronauts, if you know their histories, they went through some really tough times.
15:13
Some were alcoholics, some got addicted to prescription drugs.
15:17
And so, you know, in some cases that's why I enter people's worlds is they've done so well, they've called the market, you know, almost hour by hour or week in advance, and they made more money in a day than most people have ever dreamed of when everybody else lost their shirt, and everybody's want to know what to do. Okay, I've done that.
15:32
Now what do I do after I've called the market during the worst day in history, you know?
15:34
Most people lose momentum then or they get distracted cuz it's like we need something to go for.
15:41
We all need what I call a compelling future, something that will get us up early and keep us up late and excite us.
15:47
At least the nature of a high performer.
15:49
And if you don't have that, life feels very dead for those people.
15:51
And so, you know, you I met the United States of America Bill Clinton's hand.
15:55
So, me I was with him in Aspen and I was at a fundraiser and he asked me to come visit him and then he threw me in the car and said, "Come down the hill with me."
16:02
It was one of those serene moments in the, you know, lights are flashing.
16:04
We come down Red Mountain in Aspen, if you know the area.
16:07
And he's sitting across from me and it's right after the blue dress incident had come out.
16:11
And he says, "Tony, and I says, like, I'm still so young."
16:13
He said, "You know, what am I going to do when I leave?
16:17
You know, I'm not, you know, what am I going to do in my 50s?" It's the wildest thing.
16:21
I said, "If I were you, I'd get the hell out quick."
16:24
Cuz he's talking about, you know, I'd want to run a third time if I could.
16:25
And I was teasing him about it.
16:26
But, he found a compelling future.
16:28
And Bill Clinton today has something even greater in his life that he's going for.
16:31
So, the slump shows when people outrun their vision or the slump can show when they meet their vision, but it's not fulfilling or the slump shows when people just end up developing some patterns they're unaware of that cost them.
16:45
And this can be so such a small thing with an athlete that can occur.
16:51
And sometimes it shows like a Tiger Woods when something happens in their emotional life.
16:55
And while they try to say, "I'm an athlete here and I'm a human being over there," they don't separate.
16:59
And so what I got to do in those situations, regardless of what triggered it, is I've got to come in and get them to re-anchor in their nervous system what made them so effective.
17:06
And then you understand myelin, the idea that the more you do something, the more you wire yourself.
17:11
It's like the myelin, the the white portion of the brain.
17:15
It's almost like using if I do something over and over again, I literally wire myself with this myelin.
17:20
I'm it's like having high-speed, you know, cable in there or whatever the appropriate I don't know what it is anymore, what what high-speed really is these days, the proper term.
17:28
But, versus, you know, having dial-up.
17:30
If you do something over and over again, you can process so much more rapidly.
17:33
So, I will find where where is that myelin in that person?
17:37
What specific pattern will hook them back up again to that part of their brain where it's effortless, to that part of the brain where they in state and they don't even think.
17:44
You know, Andre Agassi was decades and decades ago.
17:47
He'd been number one in the world.
17:49
And all of a sudden he dropped I don't know what it was, number 19 or something at that stage.
17:52
It's like '90, '91, '92, whatever it was. And and nothing worked.
17:56
And nothing worked because he kept working on his swing and he kept working on his wrist.
18:00
And he was really upset with his father, who was his coach.
18:03
There was all these dynamics going nobody wants to talk about.
18:05
He was actually to the point where he shared later on that he was thinking about quitting, you know, playing the game.
18:11
This is really early in his career.
18:11
And you know, he's gotten injured and it And Andre was very frustrated and Brooke Shields brought him to me.
18:19
They were just dating at that time.
18:19
And she said, "I don't need positive thinking." He said, "You know what?
18:22
You know, Tony's not positive thinking.
18:23
He's going to show you these strategies." So, he comes to me. I sit down with him.
18:28
And I said I said, "Andre," he's telling me about how he's doing this.
18:30
I said, "Think of a time you hit the tennis ball perfectly."
18:33
I said, "Don't think about it. Go to it." I got him in state.
18:34
Got him kind of in that place where the myelin's being fired off.
18:36
And then I said to him, "Okay, you feel that? You feel that?" Yeah, he goes.
18:39
I said, "Were you thinking about your wrist?" He says, "No."
18:42
I said, "Then how the hell would you think you would ever get back to that peak performance focusing on your wrist, right?"
18:46
So, I've got to get them back into the pattern that made it work.
18:51
And then often times I've got to help them resolve some other issue that's distracting them that is something else in their life that's pulling pulling them apart from peak performance.
19:00
His story is an amazing one.
19:00
Open, the autobiography, is one of the the best I've ever read.
19:05
It's such a fantastic book.
19:07
To to Looking at the longevity of your career, the the the scope and scale of the the Tony Robbins empire, so to speak.
19:19
This your your endurance has really impressed me.
19:21
And so I'm wondering after these decades, what are your some of your daily routines?
19:27
For instance, what do you typically eat for breakfast if it's up to you?
19:31
Yeah, I have salad and fish. It's like standard. I'm boring as hell. Got it.
19:35
Um, because I just know it's fuel. Yeah.
19:37
Um, now now I before I met my wife, who we've been together for more than 15 years, um, I was completely anal.
19:44
I was like I hadn't had chocolate, I hadn't had ice cream in like 15 years, right? I was just just crazy.
19:49
And then she came into my life and I'll never forget, I thought, "God, this woman's incredible. She's a phlebotomist.
19:53
You know, she does the blood. She's an acupuncturist. She's a nutritionist."
19:58
We're having these green drinks and we had this lunch and afterwards she ordered a hot fudge sundae and I thought, "What in the hell are you doing?"
20:04
She goes, "Living, you bastard."
20:07
So, she loosened my ass up just a bit, which was great cuz I loved her.
20:09
So, I you know, she calls it zigging and zagging.
20:13
We zig zig zag and then she zags or we zag.
20:17
And when I was first with her, I was like, "You're zagging."
20:18
We were traveling through Europe, you know, Rome and Italy and and you know, various parts of France, South of France.
20:23
And I was like, "You know, you seem to be zagging every day."
20:27
And she goes, "Well, I'm on vacation."
20:29
And then later on we were traveling and I I said, "You know, the problem is we're always traveling, so you're always on vacation."
20:33
But she's fit as hell and great shape, but I I'm fish fish and and salad.
20:38
I'm I'm a you know, high grains, you know, protein type of guy, very low carbs.
20:47
And my but my regimen is I start with something to strengthen and jolt my nervous system every freaking day.
20:51
I will sometimes ease into it.
20:54
I'll go in the hot pools and you know, I'm fortunate to have multiple homes.
20:56
My home in Sun Valley I have natural hot pools that come out of ground and steaming hot and I go in the hot pools and then I go there in the river.
21:02
Here I go in a 57° you know, plunge pool that I have.
21:06
I have one at every home I have.
21:07
Every home I have a teaching upon waking up? Waking up. I just like boom.
21:10
Every cell in the body wakes up and it's also just like training my nervous system to rock.
21:17
That there is no I don't give a how you feel. This is how you perform. That's what you do.
21:20
Even when I'm taking a vacation I do it. It's just I don't know. Now I like it.
21:23
It's a I like that that simple discipline that reminds me the level of strength and intensity that's available any moment even if I'm relaxing I can bring that up at will. It's my lane. Right.
21:34
I also have a cryotherapy unit in all my homes.
21:36
Have you ever tried cryotherapy? I haven't. You know what it is?
21:40
Uh maybe you could elaborate a bit.
21:43
I can I can put the two words together and probably get god, with all that you do you're going to love this.
21:48
I'm surprised I'm I'm glad I'm teaching Tim Ferriss something for the show.
21:51
So, I'm glad I'm teaching ice baths not the first time. Oh, ice baths suck.
21:54
Ice baths suck, trust me.
21:55
I'm on stage in a weekend I do my Unleash Power Within program 3 days. It's 50 hours. Yeah.
22:00
You haven't been to that.
22:01
You know, you got to come as my guest to an event sometime. I would love to.
22:04
The but I'm going to give you an idea.
22:05
People won't sit for a 3-hour movie that somebody spent $300 on and I got like Usher or Oprah going on.
22:12
You know, "Tony, I love you, but 2 hours is most I can do."
22:13
And 12 hours later, you know, Oprah's standing on a chair going, "This is the most incredible experience of my life." on camera.
22:19
Usher's like, "Dude, I'm in for all 3 days."
22:20
But for me, one of those days alone I'm I you know, I wear a pedometer and I'm Fitbit and it's 26 and 1/2 miles on average.
22:28
We start at 8:30 in the morning. I finish at 1:30 or 2.
22:30
There's one 1-hour break.
22:32
People can vote with their feet. No one leaves.
22:34
You know, there's on average 20 minutes of just crazy ass standing ovations, music stuff that happens at the end cuz people are just it's like a rock concert. It's so much fun.
22:45
But the wear and tear of doing you know, basically marathon after marathon after marathon on the weekend back to back, it's pretty intense.
22:52
And so over the years it's like the inflammation in my body, the demands I've had to do everything I can to reduce it.
22:56
Nothing has come close to cryotherapy.
22:59
Cryotherapy is developed in Poland and Eastern Germany and the Eastern Bloc countries.
23:03
And what it does is it uses nitrogen, so there's no water. Mhm.
23:06
And unlike an ice bath which you do and you know, you get spasms and you got to do them still, right?
23:11
If you're a boxer, you're a runner, you're an athlete, which is what I would do before. Hated them.
23:14
There's no none of that process, but it reduces your body temperature to minus 220° Fahrenheit.
23:20
And you do it 3 minutes and it's mind-boggling.
23:25
In fact, I have one here and I'll throw you in at the end if you want. I would love to. That would be great. I have a unit here. I'll do it for you.
23:32
But what it does is and I do it about three times a week usually.
23:33
When I when I come back from an event I do it you know, a couple of days in a row.
23:37
And what it does is it takes all the inflammation out of your body and you know what inflammation does to every aspect of the body, the breakdown.
23:43
But it also it's it sends emergency signals to your brain.
23:46
It's like resetting your neurological system.
23:47
Cuz your brain going you're going to freeze to death. Sounds horrific. It really isn't.
23:52
You'll find out it's not that painful.
23:53
Going in my cold plunge of 57° feels more jolting than this does even though it's even though it's colder cuz you know, the fluid of water versus the nitrogen around you is different. Right, the connectivity.
24:03
The connectivity, exactly right.
24:04
And so but what happens is your nervous system gets a signal so it's like everything in your body connects cuz it's like emergency.
24:10
Every part is a reset of your nervous system.
24:14
You get an explosion of endorphins in your body, which is really cool.
24:15
So, you get this natural high.
24:17
You feel this physiological transformation and you get the reduction of inflammation.
24:22
What it was used for originally is for people with arthritis and I found my first one cuz my mother-in-law was me calling up and she was just crying in pain and no medication was enough for her and I hate somebody medicated anyway.
24:34
And so I started doing this research and it just started to come to the US and now the LA Lakers, most football teams that it's it's spreading like wildfire amongst the sports teams.
24:43
And so that's where it took off.
24:43
So, I went and got her one and I mean it took her I think three sessions and she's out of pain and now there's not a day she's in pain.
24:51
Now, most people can't afford to go buy a unit, but there are local places now that are popping up all over the United States where athletes go, where people go, where people go for rejuvenation.
24:59
It's amazing for the skin.
25:01
But it is one of the greatest things I got it first I got it for me and then now I'm addicted.
25:03
So, I've got one every and 3 minutes. What type of unit?
25:05
Do you know the the actual model or the brand that you use?
25:09
Uh yeah, there's two of them the the best out there. It's uh What was it? Java? Junka? J U N K A I think it is.
25:15
I'll get it for you when we go downstairs.
25:17
I'll put it in the show notes for those of you who Yeah, everybody wants to do it, but also like if you're in LA there's there's a place there on I'll give it to you and put it in your notes.
25:25
A couple of locations there. They're some great guys.
25:26
I'm getting another unit. This is brand new home.
25:29
So, and I'm building a you know, an additional guest house and additional size gym and so forth.
25:33
I'm getting a unit though that's better.
25:35
This one is just goes up to your neck.
25:36
And but I'm getting one that encloses you a full room and the reason is about 70% of your nerve receptors are from the neck up.
25:45
So, when you step into one of those it's even more powerful.
25:47
But other than that I don't do much unique or different with my life.
25:52
I don't believe that entirely.
25:52
I'll keep digging, but the So, you have the either the sort of contrast therapy that you mentioned, the hot cold, the cryotherapy. Yes. You have salad and fish. Yes.
26:04
How far after So, what is the if you were to kind of spec out the first hour of your day?
26:10
Well, the first the first every day I do the water.
26:13
I take in the environment and then the first thing I do before I do anything else in my day is I I do what I call priming.
26:17
And priming to me is different than meditating.
26:20
I've never really a meditator per se.
26:21
I know the value of it, but the idea for me of sitting still and having no thoughts just didn't really work out for me.
26:29
It was just a pain in the ass and I just thought it's not natural, right?
26:31
It's like that's what works.
26:33
But when I'm in nature I feel that form of meditation.
26:36
When I stand on stage and someone stands up and my brain hits done.
26:38
I don't even know what it is, but person's suicidal.
26:42
I've never lost a suicide for example in you know, 37 years.
26:43
Knock on wood doesn't mean I won't someday, but I never have and I have thousands and we followed up with them.
26:48
So, it's like there's something that comes through me and it's and it's quite meditative.
26:51
It's like I experience it as a witness, you know, afterwards.
26:55
It's It's one of the most beautiful gifts in my life.
26:59
So, I know that meditation.
26:59
But for me what priming is if you want to be have a prime life you got to be in a prime state.
27:05
And you know, weeds grow automatically.
27:07
I don't give a damn what it is.
27:08
And my teacher Jim Rohn used to say that.
27:10
And so what I do is I get up and I do a very simple process.
27:13
I do an explosive change in my physiology.
27:15
I've done the water already, right? Cold hot.
27:18
Then I do it with breath because I know you know all forms of Eastern meditation.
27:22
All understand that that the mind is the kite and breath is the string.
27:25
So, if I want to move that kite I move the breath.
27:28
So, I have a specific pattern of breathing that I do.
27:29
I do 30 of these breaths and I do them in three sets of 30.
27:35
And that creates a profound physiological difference in my body.
27:37
And from that altered state I usually listen to some music and and I go for I promise myself 10 minutes and I usually go 30.
27:47
And you do that in this room that we're sitting in? I no, I do it all over.
27:48
This one room is where I do it.
27:50
This has got a great vibe.
27:51
I'll do this one I do it at night.
27:52
I usually will go outside cuz I love the wind on my face and I love taking the elements and so forth.
27:56
But I do it in multiple places. I'm on the road I do it.
27:59
Doesn't matter what day all week. I do not miss priming.
28:01
The reason is I'm not but you don't get fit by getting lucky.
28:05
You don't get fit by working out for a weekend.
28:07
You you know, you live your life that way.
28:09
Fitness is cuz it's becomes just part of who you are.
28:12
So, what I do during that time is I do three simple things and I do it minimum 10 minutes.
28:15
3 minutes of it is just me feeling getting back inside my body not outside of my head, feeling the earth in my body and experience and then feeling totally grateful for three things.
28:26
And I make sure one of them is something very very simple.
28:29
The wind on my face, you know, the reflection of the clouds that I just saw there.
28:32
But I don't just think gratitude just like I let gratitude fill my soul.
28:38
Because when you're grateful as we all know, there's no anger.
28:41
It's possible to be angry and grateful simultaneously.
28:42
When you when you're grateful, there is no fear.
28:43
You can't be fearful and grateful simultaneously.
28:46
So, it's it's a I think it is one of the most important power emotions of life and also to me there's nothing worse than an angry rich man or woman.
28:53
You know, somebody who's got everything and they're pissed off. I want to slap them.
28:58
Surprisingly high number though.
28:59
Yeah, it is because they they develop a life that's based on expectation instead of appreciation. Agreed.
29:03
And I tell people you want to change your life fast and trade your expectation for appreciation and you have a whole new life.
29:08
So, every day I anchor that in and I do it very deeply and emotionally.
29:13
Then the second 3 minutes I do is a total focus on feeling presence of God if you will.
29:18
However you want to language that for yourself, but this inner presence coming in and feeling that heals everything in my body, my mind, my emotions, my relationships, my my finances.
29:27
I see it as solving anything that needs to be solved.
29:31
I experience the strengthening of my gratitude, of my joy, of my strength, of my conviction, of my passion and I just let those things happen spontaneously.
29:39
And then I focus on celebration and then service cuz my whole life is about service.
29:43
That's what makes me feel alive.
29:44
So, I flood myself with that with a breathing pattern that I take that does the opposite, takes the breath down through my body and back up again.
29:52
And then the last 3 minutes are me focusing on three things I'm going to make happen, my three to thrive.
29:56
And I I have some big things that I'll do and sometimes I'll do things that are smaller, but I see them, feel them, experience them.
30:02
So it's a really simplistic process, 10 minutes, but I come out of it in my power.
30:07
It doesn't matter if I had 2 hours sleep, I'm now ready.
30:09
You know, it doesn't and I do this even when I have no sleep.
30:12
I That's how committed I am.
30:14
Um as I say, I've always said there's no excuse not to do 10 minutes.
30:19
If you don't have 10 minutes, you don't have a life. Right.
30:20
And that's how I got myself to do it.
30:22
And now that I've done it, you know, 20 to 30 minutes is almost always what it is cuz it actually feels extraordinary.
30:26
And where can people learn more about the breathing pattern or could you describe it?
30:30
I'm putting a link online cuz I just started to share this just recently and I'll get it for you.
30:35
I don't know what it is off the top of my head, but it'll be up shortly, I think this week. Okay. Awesome.
30:38
And uh I will also put that in the show notes, guys.
30:41
So that's just 4hourworkweek.
30:42
com/podcast and you can find this episode.
30:46
Uh on the I have to ask, what type of music do you usually listen to during your I have a variety, but for that meditation I have one in particular, which is a oneness meditation that a friend of mine made it who's from India that I find really profound.
30:57
It has um no uh singing in it or anything like that.
31:01
It's just the sound of a vibration that's going on and and I just love it, but and that's what I'm doing currently.
31:06
In the past over the years I've used all kinds of different pieces of music, but I don't use uh modern music or pop music or rock music. I do that to work out. Right. Um you know, rap.
31:12
Um I don't know, it just feels weird to be doing rap while you're meditating.
31:18
But again, what's different is I don't look at this meditation cuz I look at it as it's priming courage, love, joy. It's priming gratitude. It's priming strength.
31:25
It's priming accomplishment.
31:27
It's priming, you know, when I'm doing my gratitude piece, I'm doing the circle of who's closest to me and, you know, circling that out to everybody I love and sending that energy and healing out to them as well.
31:34
So to me that's If you want primetime life, you got to prime daily.
31:38
Uh well, I like that I like the term priming also cuz I think that most people who struggle with meditation or even attempt to use meditation are utilizing it for that purpose.
31:46
They're doing it first in the morning.
31:47
And uh you know, when you said if you don't have 10 minutes, you don't have a life, it reminded me of something that Russell Simmons said to me, which was if you don't have 30 minutes to meditate, you need 3 hours.
31:56
And uh I don't always do 30 minutes, but I do meditate in the morning and it's been a very consistent pattern through among all of the people that I've interviewed so far on the podcast, practically 100%. Wow, that's wonderful.
32:06
Uh and of course uh we'll we'll get to Ray Dalio, but also very avid meditator.
32:11
He's coming with me to India in a couple weeks.
32:13
Wow, that'll be an amazing trip, I'm sure.
32:15
for a week of this experience. Oh, amazing.
32:17
Uh so the when people hear the name Tony Robbins, I I think many different people have different assumptions or images uh in their in their heads.
32:27
What What are the biggest misconceptions or the biggest misconception about you?
32:33
Oh my god, there's so many, right?
32:35
Depends on who you talk to.
32:35
You know, uh when you've been in the culture at any level for any period of time, people put their projections out to what you are.
32:43
And then also, you know, I didn't help myself.
32:45
I did infomercials for quite a period of time.
32:46
But you know, I didn't want to do infomercials.
32:48
There's just I had these insights and skill sets and I didn't have it If I was a great singer, which I'm clearly not, um there was a distribution channel, right? I could do that.
32:58
If I wasn't bullshitting myself, I could rock the world.
33:00
But in my world, it was write a book, which most people don't read. Um go do some speeches.
33:03
So I looked around and saw these silly-ass infomercials and I said, "These guys are a disaster.
33:09
Tommy Vu, come be on my boat and watch me get these women and I'm rich."
33:13
And I'm like, "Oh my god, it's disgusting."
33:14
So I thought, "You know, if you really did something that was real and the kind of people I reach, you know, I don't have to pay for endorsements, they'll do it.
33:20
You know, maybe people start to understand this is real and maybe they'll help me reach people." And it did. It got me Bill Clinton.
33:26
It got me Princess Diana.
33:26
It got me I mean, it got me a pretty amazing group of people at that stage.
33:30
But also, you know, you're known by the company you keep.
33:32
So when you're between spray-on hair and, you know, Whatever it is you're selling.
33:35
fake diamonds, you know, then you you know, you're seen as that. And also, I talk fast.
33:39
I'm a passionate son of a And so I'm not talking fast cuz I'm dressed so So I'm not talking fast cuz my brain functions at speed, right?
33:46
That's how my brain goes.
33:48
Slowing it down is just so boring to me.
33:50
I pro The faster I go, the the stronger my brain becomes, the quicker I come to solutions.
33:54
So, you know, when I'm most excited and want to serve people, it speeds up.
33:57
So that helps when you got a room of people where you can move and modulate that energy.
34:01
But when you're seeing somebody on TV and they look like they're crazy son of a and they're 6'7" and they got hands bigger than your head, you know, you start going, you know, who is this guy?
34:08
But the people that have actually, like yourself or Marc Benioff or, you know, President Clinton or whoever who uh you know, actually entered into my work, once they entered into my work, they go, "Oh my god, this is very different."
34:20
So I think most people think I'm an infomercial guy or a salesman or a motivator.
34:23
I mean, I hate the word motivator.
34:25
It's the bane of my existence um cuz I've never been that.
34:28
I've never I don't believe you should just go pump yourself up.
34:31
I believe in intelligence.
34:32
I believe see things as they are.
34:32
If you can't see the charge, you can't lead. Right?
34:36
But don't see it worse than it is so you got an excuse not to try.
34:38
That's what most people do.
34:40
They make it much worse than it is cuz they're afraid of failing so they come up with a reason why, a story why they don't go out there.
34:45
And I don't tolerate that I'm not the guy that says there's no weeds, there's no weeds.
34:48
There's I'm the guy that goes, "Let me show you where the goddamn weeds are and let's pull these son of a out right now and stop bullshitting. Let's do it, you and I. I'll do it with you." That's my approach.
34:55
I think most people think it's a pump-up approach because, you know, the media sees 10,000 people in a room and they're jumping up and down and, you know, you know, what is this piece?
35:04
Well, that's because I believe that learning I I believe what I do for people at its essence when I do events is EQ them.
35:10
EQ is I entertain them first because people in our society want to be educated, but they much rather be entertained.
35:15
So if I can rock you and get you to have an experience where you feel fully alive, then and it doesn't matter who you are, you're, you know, you're from any stage of life, any socioeconomic background, then I'm going to I'm going to I'm going to be able to have your education go deeper.
35:31
And then so that's the second part.
35:33
I give you the best education, the best tools.
35:34
And the third one is I empower you.
35:35
While you're in this state, I get you to do things that you won't forget.
35:38
Do things that will be in your body.
35:40
Do things that create momentum.
35:42
So I think the the misconception, at least in my perception, is they don't realize I'm really a strategist.
35:47
I mean, I consider you a strategist.
35:49
I I know you're inspirational and everything else, but being inspiring is nice.
35:53
Uh you know, it's like motivation is nothing wrong with it.
35:57
It's like we're in baths, you should take one or you stink.
35:58
You know, but but uh but that's not enough.
35:59
It's never been what I've been about.
36:02
But you know, most people in our society are are interesting that it's like if you're looking to improve yourself, people in our world think that's natural.
36:09
The average person is like, "What's wrong with you?"
36:12
I remember I had the I took a company public when I was uh what, 39 years old.
36:17
Had a really wonderful head, 400 million bucks.
36:19
I mean, it was really extraordinary.
36:20
And the man who ran my company had been the former uh CEO of CBS.
36:24
Brilliant guy, brilliant guy, Peter.
36:27
And Peter at one point while we're in the midst of this company, he said, "I'm going to go to Harvard and I'm going to take this extension course."
36:31
You know, very wealthy guy, been head of one of the largest networks in in the world and now heading up my company.
36:39
And I remember three or four people like, "Well, what's the matter? Why is he doing that? Has he lost his edge?"
36:43
I mean, it's like versus life is growth, baby.
36:47
If you don't keep growing, you're going to die.
36:48
I don't you know, but most people are afraid of the unknown.
36:52
They're afraid of I'm not looking good. I'm afraid to fail.
36:53
And so that creates a challenge.
36:56
But so I think the answer to your question is uh they don't know that I'm a strategist.
37:00
They don't know how much I really care.
37:02
They have no clue the depth of what I teach or the diversity of what I teach, subject, your body, your mind, your emotions, relationships, finances.
37:08
Um they don't know the real impact or they don't know who I really work with.
37:12
You know, the assumption is he's taking over weak people's minds and pumping them up and giving them all this poppycock.
37:20
That's crazy but but I'm not here to try to dispel that.
37:22
What I try to do is the reason I'm still here is the more people you touch, the more you reach. I don't have to do that.
37:29
The people have been through my events are the greatest people to balance that out.
37:32
And social media, it's been really wonderful because people say, "Well, this is what this guy is."
37:35
And 12 other people go, "You've never had experience.
37:38
Let me tell you what this really is about."
37:38
And that's really been a wonderful um I don't enhancement to my ability to reach people with social media.
37:44
Now, I I just to reiterate something you said about, you know, inspiration being necessary but not sufficient.
37:50
I think that like you, having the label sort of motivation or motivational speaker applied to what I try to do is very uh frustrating because one of the things that differentiates label on you, too? Oh, yeah. Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that.
38:05
It's just an easy label to throw around.
38:07
It's like, "Well, I'm not going to read the book, so I might as well find a label that I can understand."
38:10
Uh and you know, I was going to say at least you you get an infomercial, but at least you weren't selling the 4-hour work week on those infomercials.
38:17
You'd have twice the level of hell that you're already getting.
38:20
But the the the the the difference in your material because I I really wanted to better myself when I was hitting some very rough spots in my first year out of school.
38:34
And the difference between, say, Personal Power and a lot of uh to 30 printed pages of notes in Evernote. Wow.
38:50
Just on uh just on uh I I still have about 50 pages left, but it's it's a big book. We'll get to that.
38:57
I was I was felt like giving you a pat on the back.
38:59
It's like, "Oh, another 600-page book. I know how these go."
39:03
Uh Build your biceps with this baby, right?
39:04
But uh you give very uh tactical next steps at the proper time.
39:11
So you you you do sugarcoat the medicine a bit by getting capturing people's attention and not to make this Glengarry Glen Ross, you know, AIDA, but you you you have to have those elements in the proper sequence or you can't elicit action from people. That's right.
39:25
And uh that's something that you've had huge uh you've you've been very influential on my teaching, which is how I would view my writing, because of uh that model.
39:38
And so if you look at, say, the 4-hour work week as one instance, the reason that I have these comfort challenges at the end of each chapter is because I know I'm going to have big asks later and I want to condition people Yes. to take action.
39:48
I think that your materials I mean it's some of the best in the world I've ever seen in that capacity.
39:55
I want to say something about what you said cuz it's really important and you're one of the few people I've heard actually notice it.
40:00
Uh and and I've noticed it in your work and I just I didn't know it was influenced by me in any way.
40:03
I'm complimented by that but I think you probably would have got there on your own just by the nature of your thinking. The dog bit Johnny. Johnny bit the dog.
40:10
Same exact words, different syntax, totally different experience, especially if you're Johnny.
40:15
And people don't realize that sometimes when they think I'm 30 lb overweight and I'll never get this.
40:20
I've tried everything or I you know my my I every relationship sucks, you know, how do I end up with men or women like this?
40:25
Or you know, this is my third business and I'm still not there.
40:29
I don't see how it's going to happen.
40:31
They don't realize that victory is near.
40:33
And the reason is it feels like a million miles away and they're doing the right things but at the wrong time.
40:39
Or they're doing the wrong things, you know, or they're doing the right things in the wrong sequence, you know what I mean?
40:43
It's so there's timing is so invaluable.
40:46
Some of that you and I know we can't control.
40:47
Some of that's freaking luck. Sure.
40:48
But the more you study uh how things grow, whether it be organizations or human beings or families or communities uh or the way in which people, you know, study ontology or study of knowledge, there's a sequence.
41:03
And it's like if I know somebody's phone number and I dial the wrong order, I don't reach him.
41:05
But I do that same exact ingredients the right order and that's what people need very often.
41:10
Often they just need a slight twist and they don't know it and they give up.
41:12
And so my part of my passion is to help people find that 2 mm, you know, that little tiny shift that changes it all.
41:20
One of the people I have these people that I've coached over the years that are the best in the world at what they do and and I I'll take on clients who I think by touching them I can touch mass number of people.
41:28
That's why I started with Paul Tudor 21 years ago.
41:31
And um it's turned out really well with this Robin Hood group growing giving away a billion to you know over this time and the impact that it's had.
41:36
But one of these people is one of the top to give you an idea um facial surgeons in the world.
41:42
And uh I remember I went to go see him one day for one of our sessions and uh he was late and I'm waiting and I had no problem. I'm busy.
41:49
And the nurse says he's going to be a while. She says he said uh Dr.
41:53
Evan said you wanted to come in and watch.
41:55
And I said, "Wow, love that."
41:58
So you know, I get all scrubbed up, the whole thing, come in.
42:02
He's got rock and roll music in there and this guy is like an artist and a scientist mixed together in the most powerful blend with a giant heart.
42:08
And I go in there the music's blaring.
42:11
He's like, "Hey, Tony, how you doing?" He goes, "Watch this."
42:13
And he cuts this woman's He lifts this woman's face off. Oh Jesus.
42:19
And I felt a little state change.
42:19
And I was like uh you know, I stayed around for a few minutes just to you know, to put up that I could handle this And I said, "You know, I got a few calls I got to make."
42:29
I got the hell out of there.
42:29
So I'm in there I go in his office.
42:31
He goes, "Just use my office to make your calls."
42:33
So I'm recovering in his office while You get in the basket and then you're using his office.
42:37
I'm not a squeamish guy but that was I just wasn't prepared, right?
42:41
So I'm sitting in his office and he's entered a stage of life where you know, this is a guy the Sultan of Brunei paid $2 million to fly him over like 15 years ago, 20 years ago, to do two of his family's faces.
42:51
This is a guy that anybody in Hollywood who had the money he in those days there was nobody but him, the best on earth because he mathematically figured out how to trigger beauty by what you and I would call submodalities.
43:03
I think I can shorthand for you NLP term, right?
43:04
Those little triggers in the visual triggering device that affect aesthetic change in human being.
43:10
And um and so I'm sitting at his desk and he's got this manuscript.
43:14
So I'm curious the manuscript he's working on and he wants to finally teach other surgeons cuz he's so old he doesn't want it just himself anymore.
43:19
He wants his material not to die.
43:22
And he's got 100 maybe 150 pictures of the most beautiful women in the world the last 20 years across culturally around the world.
43:29
Stars, movie stars in different countries.
43:30
Then he's got the same thing for men.
43:32
And then he's got all these drawings and he showed that ironic he goes through and he shows that he makes no more than seven changes ever.
43:40
And the biggest change he makes is 2 mm. Huh.
43:43
And yet I saw an 84-year-old woman look like she was in early 50s and gorgeous.
43:48
And that's all the changes he made on her.
43:49
I'm telling you it's mind-boggling.
43:51
Like for example, he knows that the measurement of the pupil of a woman's eyes, you measure that size and you measure the distance below your nose to the top of a woman's lip.
43:59
This is only for a woman.
44:02
If that measurement is smaller than the pupil of their eye, men when they look at this woman's face are driven and sexually attracted to her.
44:08
If it's the same size of pupil, there's attraction.
44:12
If it's just 2 mm more, she has an average face.
44:13
If it's more than 2 mm more, her face is what he calls butt ass ugly.
44:18
That was a technical term he used at that point, right?
44:21
But so when I tell women this they start measuring their eyes.
44:24
So he makes this little change and it creates that puckered feeling that men don't even know why. It's instinctive.
44:29
It's just a triggering device that's instinctual that So he knows the seven. He knows the 2 mm.
44:33
And I'm like you take somebody 84, 50 and looking pretty damn hot, you know, maybe not to a 20-year-old but a 30 or 40 or 50-year-old certainly. It's mind-boggling.
44:41
So I've always learned it's like golf, right?
44:43
You know, 2 mm the difference between, you know, shanking way over here or putting it on the green.
44:48
So that's the whole thing.
44:50
Victory is near but you you got to know that very often syntax is all that has to change.
44:55
There's nothing wrong with you.
44:57
There's nothing wrong with the core ingredients.
44:58
Got to sequence it differently. Yeah.
45:01
So you mentioned a few things.
45:01
The first is that uh hand bigger than someone's head or face.
45:07
I think that for everyone listening uh at some point I would like to see if you can actually palm my face and I'll put that up on social media cuz I'm pretty sure that you can.
45:15
And I'm sure everybody would love to see.
45:16
They Oh there are probably a lot of people listening who don't like me very much and would like to palm my face.
45:19
So Tony will step in for you later.
45:20
Uh the I'd love for you to mention a little bit about the new book and just sort of a very basic overview and then I have a bunch of specific questions because this is the first book in 20 years. 20 years.
45:34
20 years and I've read pretty much everything that you've put out that I'm aware of. Yes.
45:38
And I guess part of me part of me thought a few things when I saw that this book was related to to money.
45:46
Uh and also referring to it as uh a game in some ways.
45:49
I thought number one, what hasn't already been said?
45:53
There's so many books That's what the publishers There's so many books on money and I think that uh perhaps undeservedly so I I feel like I understand a lot as it relates to investing in money.
46:04
And I've read David Swensen.
46:07
I've I've I've read about his allocations.
46:10
I've read the annual letters of Warren Buffett.
46:11
I I read the letters to shareholders from people like Howard Marks or other hedge fund managers.
46:17
I know some of those guys.
46:17
Uh so I saw a couple names pop up that I recognized.
46:22
And uh I was and you said in the very beginning of the book and this is a I've tried to do stuff like this in the past so I realize how hard it is.
46:31
You're trying to write a book that the the neophyte, someone who's never taken their finances seriously, will derive a lot of value from.
46:38
And yet at the same time you say even very sophisticated investors will be able to get a lot out of this book.
46:43
And I thought to myself, well boy, this is really talking a big game.
46:48
And uh the I mean the interviews at the end of the book alone are worth magnitudes of order more than the book itself.
46:56
I mean you've got Bogle, you've got Ray Dalio who runs the I believe it's still largest hedge fund in the world. world.
47:03
Largest mutual fund with Bogle.
47:04
Largest hedge fund with uh Ray Dalio.
47:06
Uh Carl Icahn who's, you know, Time magazine put him on the cover as master of the universe.
47:10
This guy that sends out one tweet and Apple goes up 17 billion in an hour, right? It's up 50%.
47:17
I was out He was out doing it again today. I don't know if you saw.
47:18
Um Carl's quite a character.
47:19
Um yeah, no, the two things.
47:23
One, uh coming what you said.
47:25
Um uh that's the challenge I love.
47:27
When I do my business mastery programs, I bring people in from usually somewhere between 15 and 30 countries.
47:31
I translate four or five languages.
47:34
They're different financial systems.
47:36
But business, the psychology and the strategies of business, it's a worldwide game. Yeah.
47:43
And um and so I bring people in there that are brand new.
47:45
They come in like just starting a business and you got people in there like Home Max, largest home builder in Mexico is in my events, you know, a billion-dollar business.
47:53
And I they credit me with $750 million in increase in 2 years, almost doubling their business.
47:57
And I take this chiropractor or this dentist with you know, an army of three and say I'm going to double their business in 6 months.
48:03
So I love that challenge of how do you hit both? And it's not easy to do. It's very hard.
48:09
But so far I think we pulled it off and pulled it off primarily because of who I It's not me doing the teaching.
48:14
It's me going to the best on earth and getting them.
48:15
Um Salim Shishter is doing the same thing.
48:17
Um you know, people say, "Why don't you write a book in 20 years?
48:20
What the hell have you been doing?"
48:21
Well, about every 4 days I'm on an airplane.
48:23
I see a quarter of a million people a year in 15 countries.
48:26
That's what the hell I'm doing.
48:26
And I and I love I live for that environment.
48:30
The rawness, the aliveness, the every moment something's changing.
48:32
You never know who's going to stand up.
48:33
You don't know what the challenge is going to be. I mean that feels alive.
48:36
And also it's just real and it's now and if it's not working freaking change it. Who cares?
48:42
When I go to write, as I did 20 years ago, I'm sitting still.
48:44
That first alone makes me crazy.
48:47
And then number two, uh you know, you took away my hands, my music, my voice, my face, my intensity.
48:53
Um and now I just got written words which I clearly am not as skilled at.
48:56
But when I concentrate I am.
48:56
But I also go this is immortal.
48:58
I can't improve this, you know, it's like once you write the it's done.
49:01
So I've avoided it like the plague.
49:03
And then also most people don't read, frankly. Yeah, it's true.
49:06
You know, they read blogs, you know, it's like most people I can see a generation looking at this book and sitting sitting what? 30 pages, right?
49:11
But it's these seven steps.
49:11
So you can do a chapter a day and in 30 days you got a different financial life.
49:14
That's where If you're crazy like me, you'll do it in a weekend, you know?
49:17
But what's interesting is they'll say, you know, "Why don't you put this in a blog?
49:20
You know, why don't you put this in an infographic?"
49:23
Mastery doesn't come from an infographic. Yeah.
49:25
What you know doesn't mean Yeah.
49:26
What do you do consistently?
49:29
And you got to go through stages of understanding intellectually, which anybody can do, but you got to do.
49:34
And then you got to get where there's enough emotional intensity attached to that understanding that you actually do it.
49:38
And then you got to get enough consistency in both those that gets in your body enough to think about it and it becomes who you are.
49:42
And those stages of mastery require It's like I I I I took Taekwondo. I didn't want Taekwondo.
49:49
I wanted to learn Aikido cuz I thought it was a beautiful art, you know, and I liked the idea they didn't have to hurt somebody.
49:53
10 people attack you at once and it's like wonderful, you know.
49:55
So, I learned some Aikido, but I had the privilege of being exposed uh to Grandmaster June Ree who brought Taekwondo to this country.
50:03
And he trained Muhammad Ali and he he trained Bruce Lee and his acupunch and so forth. Amazing history.
50:09
And a beautiful man, like the most happy human being you'll ever meet and he loved me and what I did.
50:15
He was touched by it and he said, "Would you like to do this?"
50:17
And I was I don't know, 23, 24.
50:18
So, I said, "Yes, but I must get my black belt fastest time in human history and you must come travel with me.
50:23
We will do this every day."
50:25
He was like, "You're insane, ass." All right.
50:26
Yeah, I read your book and into this.
50:28
It's So, it's like completely insane.
50:30
So, he came and I'd finished being on stage at midnight or 1:00 a. m.
50:34
and then I'd have to go train from 1:00 to 4:00 and then I'd sleep from 4:00 to 7:30, 3 and 1/2 hours, 4 hours, sometimes eight if I could squeeze it.
50:41
Get up and do my next day.
50:41
I did that for, you know, 9 months.
50:43
I did get a black belt and legitimately in the shortest time in history, but I hated it and never want to do it again.
50:48
But I'll never forget I was doing these moves and it's like, "Geez, 4:00 in the morning.
50:54
I'm doing the same freaking move."
50:54
And I'm doing it over and over and over again.
50:57
And I said, "Master Ree, I said, can we go to the next move?"
50:59
And he said, "Grasshopper, this is the next move."
51:02
You know, and he started to laugh.
51:04
He goes, "The fact that you're doing this and this is the same move is why we're still doing it."
51:08
You know, it's like I like but you know what? It was really true.
51:11
So, I'm into mastery and so what I I really wanted to make sure happened with people is that that we got them to that place.
51:16
And uh when I went to Simon & Schuster, it was a crazy thing.
51:20
So, I'm doing these events, I'm loving this.
51:21
Simon & Schuster been begging me for a book for decades.
51:22
A huge contract, he made it bigger and bigger and I said, "I don't need the money.
51:26
I'm not doing it for the money."
51:28
So, they finally came back and I What triggered me is I saw um this documentary called Inside Job. Yeah. Did you see it? Great.
51:35
Yeah, Matt Damon did the audio on it and it won all kinds of awards.
51:37
But what's happened if you didn't see it, I really recommend you see it, but I do want to prepare you.
51:41
At the end, you're either extremely pissed off or you're really depressed depending upon your personality.
51:46
And I was pissed off because they show how a small number of people basically put the entire economic world at risk.
51:53
And and when they put us near imploding, the punishment for that was to reward them by putting them in charge of the recovery, printing more money, and then taxing everybody else on Earth and giving them money back.
52:06
It's just my It's the It's the greatest thievery that's happened in human history.
52:09
And so, I thought, "This is making me angry cuz there's no solution."
52:12
And I thought, "There's got to be a solution."
52:15
I thought, "You know what? I got access."
52:17
The one thing I got access cuz I called you know, Coach Paul for 21 years and I mean, he's never lost money in 21 years and mind-boggling.
52:23
His company's never lost in 28 years.
52:24
I was brought in when he's having a tough time to help take things to the next level.
52:27
And um I thought, "I know these people. I know this process.
52:32
What if I took what the ultra-wealthy know and brought it in?"
52:35
So, I think I got this great strategy.
52:35
I go to Simon & Schuster, he's wanted a book forever.
52:38
And the first thing he says is, "No."
52:39
I said, "What do you mean you can't tell me no?" He goes, "Tony, no."
52:42
You know, Jonathan, good brilliant man, Jonathan Karp.
52:44
He says, "Tony, you don't want to do this."
52:45
He goes, "People are dying for a book on peak performance.
52:49
They're you're dying for a book on anything, but not finance.
52:50
This This category is a dead carcass is what he said. It's been picked clean."
52:55
Same thing you're saying, right? Ironically.
52:57
So did the head of the financial division.
52:59
He goes, "There's nothing new to say."
53:00
I said, "That's cuz everybody's attacked the same way.
53:02
I'm going to go to the people that know, not the potted twos of the same BS."
53:05
He actually offered me a larger advance to not do a financial book and I said, "Look, I'm not doing it for that. I'm in for this book."
53:11
And so, uh now he's really thrilled, which is really wonderful.
53:13
In fact, the head of that division came back and said he said, "I really thought the category is dead. I had the division."
53:19
He goes, "This is alive."
53:19
So, I'm real proud of it.
53:20
But I think what's great about the book is there's not a word in there that's coming from me on the financial side.
53:26
I don't tell you my opinion.
53:27
I don't Who gives a what my opinion is.
53:29
I want to know Ray Dalio's opinion.
53:31
I want to know Jack Bogle's opinion.
53:32
I want to know what Carl Icahn's opinion is.
53:33
I want to know what Mary Callahan Erdoes, who's head of JP Morgan and manages 2. 3 trillion with a T.
53:38
I want to know her opinion.
53:39
When it comes to the emotional psychological side, yeah, that's been my baby for 36 years.
53:43
Those opinions are clearly mine, I'll stand on them.
53:45
So, I'm real proud of what it is and I think anybody reads it will be touched.
53:49
And I I wrote it to empower readers of all types, but I also wrote it because I was looking thinking about a vehicle for righting another wrong in my opinion.
53:58
I think the system is clearly, you know, guys, you know, if you read Flash Boys or you talk to Michael Lewis or anybody like him, they'll describe to you how high-frequency trading today is so extreme.
54:10
We've all heard about it, but it's just so extreme.
54:11
It takes 500 milliseconds for you to click on, you know, your E-Trade and say, "I want to buy the stock of Apple."
54:16
And you got guys that have spent a quarter of a billion dollars to straighten the lines between Chicago and New York so they can save 1. 4 milliseconds.
54:28
And they're going to trade hundreds, maybe thousands of times.
54:30
They know you're going after Apple, they know what to do, they make money, little micro profits.
54:34
One of the HFT uh groups was going to go public last year, said it in their filings.
54:40
Do you know how many losing days they had in 4 years? I do not. One.
54:46
One losing day in 4 years. It's front running.
54:48
So, the system's rigged, but even though it's rigged, you can still win.
54:52
That's why I wrote this book.
54:52
I want you to You can still win and here's how to win and here's the people showing you how to win.
54:56
So, um I wanted to right that wrong.
54:58
I wanted people to have an advocate, but I also I'm pretty passionate about taking care of people our society's forgotten.
55:03
And I decided initially I wanted to like raise my game. They They cut 8.
55:07
7 billion dollars from food stamps last summer.
55:12
Most people didn't notice it.
55:12
It's the equivalent of every family who's being supported going without food for 1 week out of the month for 12 straight months.
55:19
And I've been supporting I've you know, my family was fed when I was 11 years old, I had no food.
55:24
Family This man came by and delivered a turkey and food.
55:26
He was just a delivery guy, changed my life.
55:27
It made me believe strangers care, so I cared about strangers.
55:30
So, I've been paying it forward and I've fed 42 million people in 37 years.
55:35
This year I'm going to feed 50 million people.
55:36
And myself personally, I had started with I'm going to advance the book.
55:39
I'm going to I'm not going to wait and sell books and see how it goes.
55:40
I'm just going to advance all that.
55:42
I was like, well, I want I don't want to do 10 million, I want to do 20 million, then 30.
55:45
So, now I'm doing 50 million and I'm getting matching funds.
55:47
I have Feeding America delivering the food and I'm getting matching funds targeting 100 million people this year alone.
55:52
And then I'm putting a system in place to sus- to sustain that.
55:56
So, doing this book has been opening up doors to thinking larger cuz when you're sitting with Carl Icahn and he goes, "Yeah, I just closed a deal today.
56:03
I made 2 billion dollars."
56:03
2 billion the day I was there.
56:05
After only 18 months of investment where he put in a I forget the number he started with, a small number um in Netflix.
56:13
Right, he made it that day.
56:13
And he's now putting all his money in Apple and he just, you know, does a little tweet and 17 billion of value goes up right away.
56:21
Uh or you're sitting with Kyle Bass who took 30 million and turned it into 2 billion in 2 years in the middle of the subprime you know, Yeah. you know, uh crisis.
56:29
And he's telling me to I was like, "Holy cow."
56:31
I mean, I I started learning things which it changes the scale of your thinking.
56:35
So, anyway, I'm babbling here cuz what I want people to know is two things.
56:38
Yes, I think this truly if you give yourself the gift of this book, it's a category breaker.
56:41
But uh it'll show you step by step how to go from where you are you want to be.
56:46
If you're highly advanced, you're going to learn out of the 55 plus I say 50, but it's really 55 plus Nobel laureates, self-made billionaires, hedge fund guys, biggest in the world.
56:55
I put the 12 biggest in the book.
56:56
And you know, I went to these guys with a the promise of a 45-minute interview and my average one was 3 hours.
57:02
So, I know how you function cuz I did the same thing.
57:06
Uh but what was really cool was like, you know, you go with a Carl and I did that with Carl and the first thing he does he throws the video crew out.
57:10
I was like, "Carl, what's the deal?"
57:11
I'd never met him before.
57:13
He's like, "No, I said video crew out. I just changed my mind."
57:16
I was like, "Okay, uh how do we do the interview?"
57:17
He goes, "Well, we'll do the audio."
57:18
"No, I don't want the audio." "No audio?
57:20
How am I going to do this interview?"
57:21
He goes, "Just take your pencil and your pen.
57:23
You know, get over here."
57:24
And he said, "I'll give you 10 minutes." All right.
57:25
And you know, now we're dear friends and it's you know, 3 hours later I'm out, you know, pictures with he and his wife and you know, and he said, "You got a really you got a way to help change this world."
57:33
And you know, and and he endorses the book and supports it.
57:36
So, I want people to know that this has been a 4-year journey of going to the smartest people on Earth and finding out the vast majority of them are incredibly genuine and wanting the average person to do well.
57:47
They just didn't think there was anybody who could translate it.
57:51
And when they saw that I could and I could pitch and catch with them cuz I do 18 hours of prep before I sit down with Ray Dalio, uh they were willing to share things that they'd never shared before.
57:58
And later on, maybe we can talk about what I learned from Ray Dalio cuz it's pretty amazing. Oh, yeah.
58:02
No, I I do want to talk about Ray uh and fascinating guy.
58:04
I mean, I'm so fascinated with the entire world.
58:08
I mean, whether it's And there's so many different breeds.
58:10
This is something that I want to talk about, but you have, say, the Paul Tudor Jones.
58:13
For those who probably haven't ever seen a very old film, I think it's available like bootleg VHS called The Trader is an amazing old documentary. You can find it.
58:25
Uh but you can see his style versus, say, you know, the high-frequency guys or a Renaissance. Yes. All PhDs, right? Outside of Wall Street.
58:33
And then and then you have the the the the Ray Dalio types.
58:39
And uh But they all have things in common if you look.
58:41
They all have different strategies.
58:42
I mean, some are let's let's let's shake the tree of the corporate guys and make sure we get more value out of it, right?
58:48
Carl, you know, and and some guys are like Templeton.
58:50
I got to interview him multiple times before he died.
58:53
It's like wait for you know, the bloodletting.
58:56
No, blood in the streets.
58:57
That's what he invests in, yeah.
58:57
blood in the streets, but it's like when maximum pessimism hits, that's when you make all your money. That's what he did.
59:03
And then there's the guys like Bogle, which is it's the index, baby.
59:04
And and these days even Warren Buffett, it's the index, baby.
59:08
Um so, they all have their approaches, but what's in common I think is I'll tell you four things I saw that stood out.
59:13
And one is overly simplistic and that's why people don't pay attention to it, but these guys pay attention to it. They don't lose.
59:21
Half the key to winning is not losing and they are obsessed.
59:23
Every single one of them is obsessed at not losing money.
59:27
I mean, a level of obsession that's mind-boggling.
59:29
And it isn't just these investors, you know, Sir Richard Branson for example, you know, people see Richard and he's such an outgoing playful crazy guy.
59:36
He's kind of an introvert in some areas, but when it comes to athletics and taking on challenges, he's out in the world.
59:43
But, you know, his first question in every business is what's the downside and how do I protect it? Right.
59:46
Like when he did his piece with Virgin, I mean that's a big risk to start an airline.
59:51
He went to Boeing and negotiated a deal they could send the planes back if it didn't work out and he wasn't liable.
59:56
I mean that's the level these guys think at.
59:57
So, they look to see how do I not lose money first?
1:00:02
Because the average person has no clue if I lose 50% in 2008, well, guess what?
1:00:07
You got to make 100% to get even, not 50% cuz your principal's gone down so much.
1:00:11
So, it's like people don't understand you lose 60% it's 200% to get even.
1:00:15
And so, the average person, you know, lives in a world where they try not to lose money, but they're not obsessed. These guys are obsessed.
1:00:22
Second thing they all have in common, every single one of them is obsessed with asymmetrical risk reward, which is a big word.
1:00:28
It simply means they're looking to use the least amount of risk to get the max amount of upside and that's what they live for.
1:00:36
So, I'll give you an example.
1:00:36
Paul Tudor, when I first went to do the turnaround when Paul was having some challenging times, he'd broken his leg, you know, think about this.
1:00:42
He did better than anybody in history of the world during the biggest stock market drop in history, literally, and then he went to the mountain, he went to the moon, now what?
1:00:50
And so, lost a bit of the edge and, you know, got involved in other things and so forth.
1:00:55
And now he's got a broken leg, he's not going to the office and I got to come in.
1:00:57
So, I had to go watch that film.
1:00:59
The white tennis I wanted to go see everything about him, study his physiology, the way he used to move, cuz this guy's not moving at all, what his face was like, how he breathed, tone of his voice, what were the physical strategies, what were the psychological strategy, what were the financial strategies.
1:01:12
I got to go, you know, to Druckenmiller and Soros.
1:01:14
I mean, the world I got access to back then was unbelievable.
1:01:17
See, what was he like then to put the plan together to do this turnaround.
1:01:21
And when I started making those shifts in him, and you could see the shift happen immediately, he got really excited.
1:01:26
I got hooked on what was going to happen.
1:01:30
So, as I I did this same process basically, guess what?
1:01:33
I I'm thinking I'm thinking about two things at once.
1:01:35
I did the same process during his interviews.
1:01:38
I didn't just look at the trading strategies, I looked at the psychology of what set it up.
1:01:40
But, here's what I found with Paul Tudor at the very beginning getting back on track.
1:01:44
When he was at his best, he made sure every single trade had what he called a five to one.
1:01:49
That means if he was going to risk a dollar, he wasn't about to risk it unless he was certain he was going to make five.
1:01:56
Now, you're not always right. So, guess what?
1:01:58
If I risk a dollar make five and I'm wrong, I can risk another dollar, I still make four.
1:02:03
I can be wrong four times out of five and still break even. Yeah.
1:02:06
Their secret is not that they don't they're not wrong.
1:02:09
It's they set themselves up where they risk small amounts for big rewards proportionally.
1:02:13
Paul, you know, if he's right at one out of three times, he still makes 20%.
1:02:17
So, the average person risks a dollar trying to make how much? Dollar 10. That's right. About about 10.
1:02:23
If I could get 10%, wow, my dollar, right?
1:02:26
And 20% would be unbelievable.
1:02:27
How often can you be wrong? Not very often. Not at all. Right?
1:02:29
You're in the hole, you're starting from the hole and you got to build back up.
1:02:33
So, their asymmetrical rewards like I was with Kyle Bass and Kyle Bass risked, check this out, in the middle of the subprime crisis, he made $2 billion out of 30 million because he risked for every six cents he risked, he had an upside of a dollar. Yeah. Six cents for 100.
1:02:47
Well, you can be wrong 15 times and you're still okay in that area.
1:02:52
I mean, he was brilliant to figure it out.
1:02:54
He's a genius figured out, but that risk reward is why it is.
1:02:57
He showed his kids, he taught I said, "How do I teach this to the average investor?"
1:03:02
And he said, "Well, you can teach them like I taught my kids."
1:03:03
And I said, "How'd you do that?"
1:03:04
He goes, "We bought nickels."
1:03:07
I said, "What do you He said, "Well, I did research. I had this question."
1:03:10
That's another thing that all these guys do.
1:03:12
They ask a better question, we talked about, they get better answers, right?
1:03:14
Better quality question, better quality answer. What's wrong with me?
1:03:17
You'll come up with stuff.
1:03:18
How do I make this happen no matter what?
1:03:20
You'll come up with different answers.
1:03:20
So, his question was, "Where in the world is there a riskless trade with total upside?" Yeah.
1:03:27
And he started looking around and he said, "I'm worried about inflation."
1:03:29
So, he decided, "Well, gosh, of all the currencies in the world, a nickel, what it's made of today, it's not made mostly of nickel, by the way."
1:03:36
He said, "It's costing the US government nine and a half cents to make a nickel.
1:03:41
That's how our government functions, right?
1:03:45
We're going to spend almost 10 cents to make something worth half as much, right?" The Pentagon plan. Yeah, that's right. It's the perfect plan.
1:03:50
So, he said, "But, you know what?
1:03:52
Just the actual material value, right? Is 6.
1:03:55
8 or whatever it was, six something, six and a half, we'll call it for round numbers."
1:03:58
So, he said, "If I buy a nickel, it's never going less than a nickel unless you believe the US government's gone."
1:04:04
So, I've got something that never goes down in value.
1:04:05
So, I got a guaranteed return, you know, I'm not going to lose my principal.
1:04:09
But, day one, it's worth 36% more than the day I bought it.
1:04:12
How many investments can you have a 100% guarantee of no loss and have 36%?
1:04:14
I said, "Yeah, but that's smelt value and I saw they passed a law a few years ago, I think Charlie Rangel or whoever it was was the one to push it through."
1:04:22
He goes, "Yeah, but Tony said, that doesn't matter. Let me tell you why."
1:04:24
He said, "Look at pennies.
1:04:27
When they changed it in from pure copper to tin and all things they changed, what happened to the old pennies?
1:04:34
There's a scarcity of them and now a penny from those days are worth two cents.
1:04:37
It's 100% more valuable."
1:04:37
So, he said, "The at some point the government cannot continue to do something that costs twice as much.
1:04:42
Some point they'll make a change in the materials and then all these nickels are worth an unbelievable amount."
1:04:47
So, he said, "I just showed my kids, here's a risk you you need to think different than everybody else.
1:04:51
Don't think I have to take huge risks for huge rewards.
1:04:52
Think, how do I take no risk and get huge rewards?"
1:04:56
And because you ask that question continuously and you believe in answer, you get So, you know, I I he said, "Listen, if I could put my entire wealth in nickels right now." He said, "I'd do it." I said, "You're insane."
1:05:05
He goes, "I am insane, but it's the best possible fundamental investment."
1:05:08
He started telling me how to do it.
1:05:10
He bought 40 million nickels. Wow.
1:05:11
He has 40 million nickels.
1:05:14
It fills up a room bigger than this, right?
1:05:16
And it would be on the ground floor.
1:05:19
had his kids bragging on them and everybody else laughing and having fun.
1:05:22
I mean, it's like their little treasure.
1:05:23
So, he can legitimately do like the Scrooge McDuck backstroke in a pool full of nickels.
1:05:29
So, So, that's asymmetrical reward.
1:05:30
I'll give you one more and I'll shut the hell up.
1:05:32
I don't but I want to you asked me the what the you tell me the difference is.
1:05:35
I want to you know, there are differences.
1:05:36
We can spend hours and hours on the differences, but what I think's useful is what's aligned because then it gives you something universal that can be applied.
1:05:43
Uh the other one for them is they absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt know they're going to be wrong.
1:05:49
You look at these talking heads on television and people screaming at you and hitting bells and telling you what to buy and they're right, right, right.
1:05:54
The best on earth, the Ray Dalios, right?
1:05:56
The the Babbles, the, you know, I don't give a who you talk about.
1:05:59
You want to look at Carl Icahn, they all know they're going to be wrong.
1:06:02
So, they set up an asset allocation system that will make them successful.
1:06:06
They all agree asset allocation is the single most important investment.
1:06:09
There wasn't one person in terms of your vehicle that it wasn't the most important thing, no matter how they attacked it, asset allocation was the element there.
1:06:14
And the last one is they are they're lifelong learners.
1:06:19
I mean, these people are machines.
1:06:20
Like you, like me, like Peter, like most of people you and I share as friends, they just they're obsessed with knowing more.
1:06:25
And because the more they know, the more they realize what they didn't know and then they apply that and they go to another level.
1:06:31
And every time you think you're the best you can be in anything in life, your body, your emotions, your spirit, your finances, there's always another level.
1:06:38
And these guys live by it.
1:06:38
And then the last one that I found almost all of them were real givers.
1:06:43
Um not just givers on the surface like money givers, that's wonderful, um but really passionate about giving.
1:06:47
And it showed up once they saw what I was doing was legitimate and it was really real.
1:06:52
That I mean, then they're opening up three hours of their time, something none of these guys will never give. Oh, yeah.
1:06:57
I mean, their hours are worth a lot. That's saying the least. I saying the least.
1:07:02
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1:07:25
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1:07:26
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1:07:35
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1:07:35
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1:07:41
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1:07:47
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1:07:49
And I would love your feedback.
1:07:51
Let me know what you thought of this show, who you'd like to hear on the show next, and any other thoughts, really.
1:07:57
You can find me at Twitter at @tferriss. That's twitter.
1:07:59
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1:08:05
com/timferriss with two r's and two s's.
1:08:09
Until next time, thank you for listening.