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I I want to just say tache, you know, a long time we've been having conversations about your music and about life >> and it's one of the things I really look forward to the most whenever I know you're coming back.
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My hope is like, oh, I hope I hope T will come through and say hi again and we get a chance to kind of touch base on life.
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Um, and I'm so happy you've chosen to on this album because it it is, as I said, off the record and we'll say on the record my favorite of your album.
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>> Oh, thank you so much.
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That's really really really a nice compliment.
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You must be really proud of this.
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And um >> did you have a moment to yourself when the work was done >> where you got to be in your car or be at home or just be in your space and do whatever you're going to do? >> Yeah.
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>> Have a cup of tea, have a smoke, whatever.
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Sit back and listen to it and be like, >> "Yeah, I did it. I love this."
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>> No, I sometimes I have to take a couple weeks away from it. >> Yeah.
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or maybe a month or like I have to go like live my life, do something. Yeah.
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>> And I'll come back and I'll put it on.
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It's usually when I'm driving in my car because that's typically when I listen to music. Yeah.
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>> And I just start like >> I get so excited.
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Like I start like like it's going to be so great.
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It just sounds so it sounds so good.
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I'm very very very excited about the whole thing.
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So it feels feels really great.
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It's a perfect balance in my opinion of of a lot of what you've been pushing for in your life and and searching for which is this idea of um you know your identity as a writer, as a performer, but also your sonic identity. >> Thank you.
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>> Like it sounds very much like only you could make this record now.
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All of the influences, all the things that you've been trying to tell us over the course of your records, I am not one type of music fan and musician and artist and creative >> in one place.
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What is it challenging to try to make all those things make sense ever since 10 songs?
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>> I think I feel like I have realized that I am the throughine between all of my different interests and inspirations.
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And >> so now I don't worry about them >> kind of feeling cohesive because I know that basically what I'm going to bring to the table is always going to bring that thread of connectivity between them.
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Whether it just be a concept, an idea, my melodies, the, you know, background vocal choices.
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I think they all kind of sit together in a world that really makes sense.
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So yeah, I think I'm I'm not so worried anymore about making it feel like, oh, they all have to fit into like one particular sonic box.
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I think I can take it to so many different places and paint with so many different colors and and you know, still make it feel like they're all a part of the same project.
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>> It makes total sense that because what I hear on this record is a real healthy relationship with experimentation as well. >> Thank you.
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whe 45 seconds as the background vocals start to play with each other and find find the groove sometimes not even able to >> it's so interesting the way you're playing with the space now >> thank you thank you yeah no I think
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having the ability to experiment is something that is a privilege to be able to get to that place I think that's comes from a lot of experience and it's from being able to try different things and kind of realize where the sweet spot is. And I think
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And I think being able to be playful was really the the core vision for me for this project.
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I really wanted every song to have like a sense of play and freedom.
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And I didn't want it to feel like I was, you know, kind of tied down by any particular like structure or time or, you know, whatever it was.
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So that sense of play really allowed that kind of experimentation to happen.
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And I think that is again because I've had so much experience like trying different things and like seeing what feels good, taking it here, taking it there.
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I think I really found this place where it just feels really natural and that's really really exciting.
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>> Tasha, you're at number eight. >> Yeah, that's crazy. >> This is that's crazy.
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And and what it says to me is like um you're now at your altitude.
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You are now at 30,000 ft in the air and no one can like you know tell you to land the plane.
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It's up to you to fly however you want to, wherever you want to.
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And one of the through lines of our conversations over the years is we've been kind of acknowledging hopefully in a thoughtful way those those moments of like when's the world going to catch up?
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>> When's the world going to catch up? >> Totally.
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>> And so when you think about now to be at number eight and the world is caught up and catching up. >> Totally.
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>> Do do you see it as a blessing in a way that it rolled out the way it did even through some of those conversations we had where I could tell you were challenged and frustrated? >> Yeah. No, I think so.
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I think there's no substitution for the journey.
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I think the experience that I've been on, the things that I've learned, the confidence that I've gained in myself has led to the art that I'm making now.
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It's led to the place where I'm at.
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Um, I think the longevity that I've been able to have and create by being constantly able to adapt and go through moments where I felt like an underdog and then moments where I felt more like confident in myself and like the es and flows of that.
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I think that's always just a fun place to explore.
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Even I think in my songs themselves and it's a crucial part of the journey, I think, as as a creative and as an artist, like you're always going to be going through those different feings and emotions and ups and downs.
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But that's the beauty of it is kind of when you kind of get to that other side of of feeling like, oh, okay, I don't have to prove anything to anyone.
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I can just be completely myself and I don't have to explain myself anymore to anyone, you know?
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>> Isn't that kind of what pop star is? >> Absolutely.
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>> That's what this album really is.
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>> It's like I'm not waiting around for you guys to see the kind of pop star I am.
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I'm just going to tell you now straight the up kind of pop star. >> Exactly.
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I think it's a declaration to me of like this is who I am.
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me of like this is who I am. this is me and this is the space that I'm going to I guess take hold of occupy embody and that's irregardless of whatever each individual track sounds like whatever you know place or box or or mold that I
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think people have these preconceived notions of like what type of artist that I am that maybe are a bit flawed if you haven't taken the time to listen to like the breadth of my discoraphy and so I think that this is to me just an embodiment of all of those energies in one. >> You said something really powerful in a
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>> You said something really powerful in a comment with someone that was pulled by my team, which just just because we knew it would relate to the conversation and the theme, which was, you know, you responded by saying, "As a black woman, I fought hard as for years to be considered pop by my label without basically changing who I am as an artist." >> Yeah.
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>> Um, >> the reason I raised that is cuz I want to know, was this always the point? >> Yeah, it was.
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And I think it was so hard for me to get other people to understand the thesis statement, if you will, of how I viewed myself as an artist.
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I always saw myself as a pop artist.
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Even when I made music that was debatably the most R&B type of music that I've made, which was like the music I made right out the gate, it didn't really like connect to me that like that was something different because I think when I thought of a pop artist, I thought of I thought of just this like larger than life persona.
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I thought of the performance.
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I thought of the persona.
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I thought of the energy, >> unlimited creativity to define your identity, however you want. >> Totally.
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And the reinvention and just like the the powerful like confidence that's embodied when I thought of like Britney Spears or Madonna or like Janet Jackson or all these people that I like reference and look up to.
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So to me, it just I I felt like there was a huge I was kind of confused, taken aback by the fact that I felt pigeonholed in a sense.
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It makes total sense to me because we've talked about the moment that we met for the first time at the BBC and how you were almost dismissive of Tuan and I couldn't understand it [laughter] at the time cuz it's such a banger and it's so
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interesting now that it all it's all made sense and come into focus over the course of our conversations one moment at a time when I realized that you can respect and love that piece of music but not how people are actually boxing you in by it. >> I definitely feel like after that record
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>> I definitely feel like after that record took off there was a conflicting understanding about like who I was. Yeah. Yeah.
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>> And if I was meant to be this like urban thing or this like pop white thing and that divide again did not make sense to me and >> being felt or I felt like I was meant to pick between and that was a really uncomfortable place that I just obviously didn't want to have to do.
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And so I kind of feel like the course of my career has been like staying the course of being like I'm going to create what I want to create.
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I'm going to be who I am regardless of >> these, you know, the boxes that exist, unfortunately. >> Yeah.
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Which is just without putting too fine a point on it, just straight up bias.
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Straight up creative bias.
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And by the way, there's no such thing as only creative bias. It's just bias, right?
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And so for you to get to a place now where you can actually turn around and say, "I'm going to claim this as my own and earn it."
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not only sets you up to to now be completely unapologetic and free. Yes.
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>> But you've changed the architecture. >> I hope. >> No, you have. It's a statement. >> Yeah.
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I hope to I want to continue this conversation.
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I want to allow more artists to feel free in their creativity because I don't think when I think of the word pop star, I don't think of this as something that's exclusionary of the other genres.
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I think it's all of these things combined.
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I don't think it's like not R&B or not pop or not or whatever, not dance music, not it's all of those things combined.
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It's all of them when they come together and like are presented in this like amazing package.
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So to me, this is like a um yeah, it's just an embodiment of like an energy.
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>> We're going to dive into all of this music, but and I've said this to you in so many different ways, but I'm going to always say it.
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I really think you're one of the most influential and important artists of your generation.
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>> Oh, thank you so much.
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You know, I feel that way.
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>> You know, you know I do because you know, you've literally shown the way every time someone's got in front of it, >> you're like, "No, no, no."
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>> And it's inspiring to people to see that that's that's possible while you're making your best >> Thank you.
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>> You know, >> yeah, totally.
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I think it's the Aquarius of me.
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>> Are you willing to accept that now at this point in your life?
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Do you do you do you do you acknowledge the role that you have played whether you meant to or not in helping other people understand what is free? >> Yes and no. I think so. Yeah.
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I I'm I'm very proud of the work that I've done.
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I think I have created my own path which hopefully will break down the doors for more people to be able to kind of follow in that at least that be inspired by the fact that you know they can kind of create their own vibe.
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They can go after they can make the music they want to make.
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They don't have to be whatever making any compromises creatively.
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But I think yeah there's always this kind of hesitation I think to embody like my full you know I don't know legacy or all the things that I've done.
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I think I'm I'm so hungry still.
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Like I have so much that I like want to do. So it's >> good. Good answer. Yes.
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But I'm [clears throat] not done. So let's move on. >> Yeah. No, it's just the truth. That's how I feel. >> It's totally fair.
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Um, >> so when you get in the studio, >> Yeah.
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>> How do you know what you if and you can make anything now and pop star is everything. >> Yes.
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>> How do you know on the day?
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Let's get into the micro of it.
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>> How do you know what you want to make or when something grabs you? How do you know? Yeah. melatonin.
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>> It's all just a feeling.
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It just I just go based on instinct.
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100% instinct at this point.
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It's on the day do I feel like I want to make something fast.
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I'm want to make something slow.
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I'm making adjustments in real time.
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We might start with something that feels very >> uptempo and then it's like ah, you know, we're not really like striking gold when it comes to the inspiration here. Let's adjust.
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I'm I'm very much open to following the creative process now.
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I'm not into like forcing it into like making sure that we come out with a record at the end of the day.
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I'm much more interested and inspired by just following the the playful energy and like if it comes it comes.
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And usually when it does come, that's like the most fun and interesting and creative ideas, you know.
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>> How many songs for this record do you reckon you you you got going? >> I recorded a lot.
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I wrote maybe I want to say I I would say a hundred songs.
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I'd say a 100 songs, maybe more. Probably like 150.
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And I think that kind of checks out to, you know, the effort and the energy that I've put into this project.
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I spent almost like two years on this album and I've a lot of the time had like a quicker turnaround way between projects and I really wanted to like let this one marinate like take my time. Like just fun. >> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. It's It's so nice.
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It's >> hear that and be like, "Oh man, that must have been so stressful.
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150 songs to come up with 16.
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It's like, no, I had a lot of fun making 150 plus songs. >> 100%. You kind of have to.
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I think >> I think the finishing is actually probably, you know, execution is is not often talked about as being the toughest part of the whole experience. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
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Figuring out how you going to be able to let it go. >> Yeah. >> Are you good at that?
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>> I think my philosophy is I have to release music in order to free up more space for creativity.
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Like I I start to feel blocked if I don't drop the project.
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So I kind of have to wrap it up.
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>> Um >> so that I can be creative again.
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>> So you can make another one. >> Exactly. Exactly.
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Cuz I don't like It kind of feels like Yeah. It gets like backed up.
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There's like a backlog of like ideas and I need to share them in order to like >> experience new ones.
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>> How does creativity factor into your day-to-day life?
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Um you know, are you a full-time creative?
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You think of it all the time?
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Is it important that you create a little bit of time for state as well as church?
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Like how do you how do you find the balance?
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I'm very creative in general in my life.
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Like the way that I move [snorts] through it and I'm always creating things and making things and exploring and that's really really important to me to like have that lack of structure in a sense in my overall life.
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But I do think like in terms of like songwriting and writing songs, I very much like to dedicate like certain times in my schedule that I'm going to focus on being creative in that sense and then focus more on like say I'm touring or I'm doing something else.
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I think both of those things take up a lot of energy to me and like the creative process takes a lot of focus when I'm like really invested in it and really, >> you know, in the thick of it.
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And so I like to not be like doing something creative and then like going off and doing something else and like oh I'll come back to it in a month.
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I'd rather just sit down and be like okay I have a week or a few days even just to like really immerse myself in this idea.
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So >> do people understand that?
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Are they are they sympathetic or empathetic to that to that decision talking about the most important people in your life and even the new people in your life that you want to foster relationships with?
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Yeah, >> you know, whatever it is, business, do they understand or is it something that you keep coming up against that people don't get what's required to do this?
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>> I think luckily my life is very cyclical.
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So there are seasons I guess in how I experience different parts of my career and that does allow me to be able to I don't know connect with people in a different way in certain times of the year.
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So say I'm like making music that'll be when I'm like more in like cozy.
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I usually love to do it around like the holidays when like things slow down a little bit and I'm kind of like in my feels a bit like emotional and a bit like intimate and and I think like as the you know summer picks up that's when a lot of times I'm doing like a lot of shows and I'm touring and it feels more social and I'm able to like integrate more people into my environment.
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So it's like it's it's I would say the challenge is just kind of finding the balance throughout all of those things.
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But I really enjoy the fact that my life always kind of changes in that sense that it's not just one thing all the time.
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>> I never thought about it as seasonal and I haven't heard too many people if ever say that in conversation with me that it actually can be treated as such and it makes total sense the way that the way that you put it.
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Um >> but you know life is life. >> Yeah, it is.
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>> And and you know there's just going to be situations um that don't play by those rules.
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How do you adapt to those things?
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And especially as you know, you try to stay focused on the vision that you have as a creative person which requires all this energy.
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>> How do you deal with the uncertainties of life as well?
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Are you are you better equipped to do that now?
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>> I I think so, but then there's always like the existential question of like getting older and like trying to factor in like my personal life into what I do.
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I think I've been constantly so focused on this project or all my projects or like getting to this proverbial place that I like want to get in my career and my life that it's been hard.
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It has been hard to factor those things in as like a priority.
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And I honestly would say I still have not.
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>> But it's something that I want to do at some point.
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So it'll I wouldn't say I'm better at managing it now. No. >> But it's crazy.
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>> But it's crazy. But it's it's interesting that you've you've that you've got this like growing self-awareness that it's that it's it's happening >> of course >> cuz life is happening right and this is the thing like we especially when >> so you're a young person and you decide that you want to go and become an artist
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and you want to express yourself you have to back yourself and anyone in this room Ricky understands anyone understands this you become your own >> cottage industry your boutique business of yourself you may not see it that way but that's ultimately the journey that you're on Um, but you know, so you can stay stay that course. Only you no one
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Only you no one can tell you not to. >> Yeah.
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>> But life does just whisper in your ear.
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>> Like >> I'm I'm interested to see where the story goes cuz I I truly I' I've kind of been thinking about this lately honestly like how I predict that like the twists and turns of my career, like if I'll just continue to be in this like strict seasonal album cycle that I've been on.
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>> Um, or if I'll like venture into other endeavors.
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I'm certainly like not at that point yet, but I'm I'm just kind of I'm also curious to see how it all plays out. >> Yeah, 100%.
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Um, we started the conversation and when you walked in, Empty Stadium was playing.
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The reason why I love that song, I mean, I love the whole kind of very light almost fauc inspiration behind it.
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Very ' 90s drum and bass jungle.
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Early doors just like scattering just just very sort of drums are just touching you left and right.
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The whole thing is just dancing in a really moody way.
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But if you listen to the lyrics, >> really interesting declaration. >> Yeah.
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>> This idea of this dream of being in an empty stadium waiting for applause that never comes. >> Mhm.
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>> What do you think's I'm assuming that was a dream? >> Yeah, absolutely.
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>> So, you woke up fearful.
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How long did it take before you wrote the lyrics and the words?
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>> Um, >> or did you retain it?
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>> It's It's more so like a retained idea of maybe like a recurring dream thought feeling.
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>> Holy this is a recurer.
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>> Yeah, [laughter] this is a recurer. Oh my god.
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>> This is a constantly under the surface.
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You know when you kind of have those dreams that like you don't go back to the exact same dream. >> Yeah, I know.
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>> But they're like in the same like area.
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They have the same feeling.
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You just know it's the same dream. >> You just know. >> You just know.
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>> You've honored it in a song.
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What do you think it's telling you?
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This this kind of feeling or this recurring thought? What do you think?
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What do you think? Can you have you given it have you sat at me like you know all right if I was to trace this back to to some kind of fear or some concern I have >> what what do I trace it back to >> I think it's an anxiety that potentially all of the work you've done
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>> like kind of no one's there to hear it no one's there to appreciate it where does it where does it go I think as an artist as someone who creates something >> the the crucial element of like wanting it to connect with people and wanting it to be heard by people is like a big part of it. And so I think there's always
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And so I think there's always this feeling of like always feeling like maybe it's never quite being understood.
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Like you're never quite getting through to people.
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People aren't fully seeing you.
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People aren't fully hearing you.
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And there's kind of this sense of like all of a sudden I realize that like I'm here and I've been doing all of this for so long.
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so long. and kind of for what you know >> can I ask a question and I mean this with the with the utmost respect >> love and admiration for everything that you do and continue to do but wouldn't that be okay at this point because even if that happened because >> I guess what I'm trying to get at is like at some point you get over the hump
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of like perception and you just get to what it means to you >> and what you're achieving and I feel like when I hear this album that's why I'm so fascinated with the song being on the album and you're coping to that dream >> is because I feel like this album out of all of your records is the one where if that was the case one day that would still be okay. >> Yeah. It's so interesting because it's >> Yeah.
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It's so interesting because it's like I can hold both of those truths at the same time which I think is part of the the the eeriness of that dream.
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It's really eerie and it's eerie song about it >> because I think that is kind of again it's like the it kind of speaks to just the human condition of like and there's a line in the song where I specifically say like but would that ever be enough?
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Like because even if I did even if this was full of people like you know that the bar would just inevitably raise and you'd continuously I I would just continuously have a higher expectation of what I need to achieve.
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And I think there is a a kind of a hamster wheel that you kind of go on when you start thinking about success.
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And I think that that is that is kind of the point of the song is that even though you know all these expectations, even though maybe I'm experiencing like these this amazing life of like whatever and I'm so confident, more confident in myself than ever before, there's always this feeling of like but but what if there's more?
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Like what if there's more out there?
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What if I haven't reached my full potential?
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And like what if that's not enough?
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But then what if it what if it >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. No, this is the artist.
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This is this is the conflict within the artistic spirit is this idea of like um having the courage to explore something that that you are proud enough to let go of >> but then putting it in the in the in the in the um circumference of other people. >> Yeah.
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Because I also think like when it comes to my art, it I I have reached the point where I'm past wanting or needing accolades and you know, whatever.
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Um, so that that does really really exist.
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But why is it that this is still kind of like a need or a want or a feeling?
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And I think that that is yeah, this insatiable just like human thing.
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>> It's also probably there's there's probably a really interesting foundational point in your life >> where this desire to to express yourself. >> Yeah.
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>> And to connect with others through that >> Yeah.
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>> could be traced back to >> Oh, of course.
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>> Like I think about that all the time in my life.
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Like when I react to something in an old school way, I'm now trained to go back and and trace it >> cuz because Yes.
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>> cuz because Yes. This is again which speaks to like another song that I talk about in in this album is just this feeling of like pressure and weight and responsibility which I've always felt since I was very young because being in this industry and
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having the privilege of being you know finding success and like making money and like seeing it happen and like how it's changed things for myself that creates a level of pressure and I think that that's always there and you're constantly driven by this, you know, wanting to climb this ladder. And I also
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And I also think that um as as you're climbing the ladder, you start to, you know, just look back on everything that you've done and it it you feel like maybe if I don't feel this way, >> I'll lose the edge.
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like I'll lose that thing that has gotten me this far, which is this passion, this this feeling like feeling like an underdog has also been something that I feel like has driven me.
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And so I've maybe embodied it more than I truly am.
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>> The [laughter] you juice is the most powerful you can drink at the most powerful point in your life.
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>> And it is a driving factor in a lot of what gets people out the door and in front of other people. >> Totally.
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But you will drown in it if you don't stop drinking it. >> Wow. Yep.
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>> You know, it's like the ego is like your friend until it really ain't. >> It's so true.
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>> Until it really ain't.
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And I I I I think what I love about hearing this music is >> you're super super self-aware now about what you do >> versus how it relates to everyone else.
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But I love the fact that you've acknowledged it on this song.
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that feeling that everybody has of like if no one gets it or hears it, did did it matter at all? >> Yeah, totally. >> And it does. >> It does. Well, thank you.
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>> It absolutely does for everybody. 258.
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Another one of those moments where um I feel like you're in a in a in a brilliant experimental place. >> Thank you.
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Yeah, I was at the playback yesterday, but someone said that you mentioned that there was a moment where someone tried to do with the best of intentions the idea of bringing it the vocal into focus and you were like that's not what this is about. Can you tell that story?
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>> You know, when we're creating the songs, obviously I work with a lot of people with very talented and personal opinions.
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So, [laughter] um, which is great, but I think I've reached a place in my career and in my album process where I'm feeling very definitive about the decision.
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So there was a point where there was a suggestion made to change maybe simplify the drums in a sense or change them kind of make them feel a little bit more like palatable to this particular person who didn't kind of understand the pocket that I was singing in the the the time signature that I had in my head.
26:05
>> Um >> and so I think that that was it was an interesting moment where I was like no I just want to kind of stick to this initial time signature.
26:11
[laughter] But I just love I just love the idea of somebody being like I'm just a bit confused and just being like good.
26:18
>> No, I'm like you know what that's how it should be.
26:20
I kind of I'm It's kind of fun the songs that people kind of disagree about like where the down beat is.
26:25
I'm kind of into those person.
26:27
>> They're like some of my favorites.
26:27
I mean look, we got two or three great radio head records where they gave us what it should sound like to everybody else and [laughter] then they started making music where it was like this is what it sounds like to us. >> Yeah.
26:39
And if you don't get that, and there are some songs they made, I still don't know where the one is.
26:43
>> Like, did you hear that thing with the ringtone that went viral recently?
26:48
>> I was thinking about that.
26:48
This is like that ringtone thing.
26:51
>> That's my favorite >> But you have really And I can say this with absolute certainty.
26:55
You have really good taste.
26:58
>> And and I I kind of want to know sort of what role music plays in your life um when you're not making it and the other seasons where you're not necessarily focused.
27:05
Um, and and you know, if there are through lines to that of what you like that you know speaks to you. >> Mhm. Yeah.
27:11
I I again just follow the things that feel good to me.
27:14
And a lot of that is melody.
27:16
A lot of that is tempo, things that make me want to dance, things that have really interesting chord progressions.
27:21
I love like a minor chord. I love dissonance.
27:23
I love things that feel a little strange, wonky.
27:27
I love like a beat that has like a lot of different layers that you can continuously like find different pockets that you can dance to.
27:35
And I think following my my taste has been really fun with both how I've created my music and also how I've been able to like share my music with my audience with DJing with exploring like the live performance element and just continuing to bring in the different things that like I like and kind of make this curated like soup of just things that feel good. >> Do you like the DJ? >> I love it.
28:02
I think it's so much fun.
28:04
It's like so great to be able to be in a room, curate an environment, and play things that I like to play.
28:09
At the end of the day, like again, I don't feel like I subscribe to like a particular box or style of even like how I DJ or what I play or what I'm into because I think that's also a reflection of just like the range of of different things that I like.
28:25
>> Are you willing to lose people on the floor? >> Oh, yeah.
28:27
[laughter] >> That's the fun part. That's the fun part.
28:33
Yeah, that kind of reminds me of I saw Sophie DJ one time at Coachella. Wow.
28:37
>> And it was the same thing.
28:37
Like >> she initially started playing and she probably played something that sounded like just like helicopters and like a satellite dish crashing into like a power plant for at least 20 minutes. At least 20 minutes. And it was so long.
28:56
And one of my friends, I swear, she was like, "I have such a bad headache.
28:59
I cannot I can't take it.
29:01
And I was like, just stay. Just stay.
29:04
It's going to be worth it. And it was so worth it.
29:07
But that just reminds me of that cuz it's just so gangster.
29:11
And she was just out there by herself just >> so gangster.
29:15
>> Did not even >> Okay, tales being told, real talk.
29:16
What is your capacity for error now on stage?
29:24
How prepared are you and how capable are you as a person based on someone who I think might have been at some point in your life a perfectionist? >> Oh yeah.
29:32
Big big big perfectionist.
29:34
>> How do you deal with the stuff that just goes wrong?
29:38
>> I think again this is experience.
29:38
I think I'm never panicky when I'm on stage because there is such a I know that I can fill up that gap with whatever the the genua if you will. You can do it. Yeah, I can do it.
29:53
I just All I need is a mic.
29:54
All I need is the lights to be on.
29:57
I actually probably don't need the lights to be on, but it would help if they could see me.
30:00
Um but yeah, I think um being able to have the experience of being on stage and so many things happening like there everything has happened.
30:11
There's been wardrobe malfunctions, there's been screens going out, lighting going out, ear in ears going out, heels breaking. Who knows?
30:20
Like all sorts of things have gone wrong.
30:21
And at a certain point, you get to the point where you're just like, "Yeah, I mean, I can handle I can handle all of it."
30:27
>> I watched your show at Outside Lands. >> Oh, yeah.
30:31
>> Uh on the YouTubes and that was fine. >> Yeah.
30:34
And I watched you come on, start with Too Easy.
30:36
And what immediately struck me was how you're like an incredible performer on every level and your choreography is no joke and you absolutely and and you stand on business when it comes to movement. >> Yeah, totally.
30:48
But I love the fact that you it feels like you've crossed into a different place now >> where it's like >> when I move >> you will respond cuz I will lock in >> but I'm not but >> they can work a they can do a lot of work on other Totally. Does that make sense? >> Yeah, absolutely.
31:06
I think um again like over the course of my career I've tried a lot of different approaches to like how my stage performance is and I've tried choreography is a huge part of how I tell my story and how I get the point across and I think that you learn the ways to use the movements to enhance the story line and to really tell that story and have that be the priority versus just doing steps.
31:32
And I think a lot of times when you have a dance background especially, you're kind of more inclined to like just filling the show up with steps because there's like a comfort zone to that in a sense.
31:40
zone to that in a sense. And so I think just being on stage alone, being able to like own that moment, being able to like not fill every single moment with enough >> is exactly like has been also just like a journey process of like how to integrate that energy into the show as
31:56
well because there was also a time where it was like the complete opposite was the expected of just like there was nothing else on stage and like >> I felt like I was trying to like prove something by being like we need to bring in like the dancers and the band and the energy and like all the things and the lights and the screens. beautiful
32:13
beautiful storytelling and and that thing is going to be really fun.
32:23
>> Yeah, it really helps when you have a very expensive bag with a very expensive mic in it. >> It does.
32:27
[laughter] >> You know what I mean?
32:28
You can do a lot tell you can do a lot with a very expensive bag [laughter] with the mic in it. >> Isn't that true?
32:35
>> That moment when you decide you are going to do something and you put the mic back and the bag had me in stitches.
32:39
I was like, it's one thing to take the mic out.
32:41
It's another thing to put it back in. >> It's a gag.
32:45
You know, you have to gag. >> That was brilliant. Thank you. >> That was brilliant.
32:49
[laughter] There's a song on here called Pillow Fight.
32:53
>> We were talking about this before you came in and and this may be a reach, but you've talked about the influences of these of these great pop stars that that they've had on your life >> and how this is your way of explaining your >> your place in that lexicon.
33:06
M >> um you know you were on Slumber Party >> and now you got Pillow Fight >> and I wonder whether or not that even crops into your head subconsciously or consciously.
33:18
>> Someone mentioned that yesterday and they were like, "Oh my gosh, the continuation of slumber party."
33:22
I was like, honestly, I did not think of that consciously. I'm not going to lie.
33:25
But um yeah, I think that was such a pivotal part of my career in terms of like feeling validated by like someone I really looked up to. >> Yeah.
33:38
I want to stay there for a second because I think it's important people listening and watching this understand what that truly feels like.
33:42
You manifest that and it gets closer to you and closer to you and then the person that's on your wall or on your chest t-shirt. >> Yeah.
33:50
>> Suddenly becomes a person in your life that's contributing to your journey as well.
33:54
>> What did that teach you about like magic?
33:56
I think also there was a way that Britney really made me feel seen, like she really embraced me. It felt very genuine.
34:07
It didn't feel like I was just a feature >> as a trade. Yeah.
34:11
>> Which is a rare feeling as a featured artist, I think.
34:14
Um, being able to perform it with her several times, being able to just Yeah.
34:20
have that experience I think was very affirming in my sense of self and feeling like oh my heroes or people that I'm really really inspired by are not only looking to me as someone that they want to work with but also someone that they respect.
34:39
I think that meant a lot to me for sure.
34:43
>> You were close to her genius, you know, and there is genius to the way that Britney has so carried around. Yeah.
34:49
What's what's what's one of your most wonderful memories of that experience in terms of understanding and recognizing at close quarters why she is who she is?
34:57
>> It's just seeing her work like when a camera comes on and she just connects with it.
35:01
There's there's a X factor there that just like is behind the eyes that you're like wow like no one can manufacture that.
35:08
That is that's a that's a pop star right there. >> 100% 100%. >> It's just in her. >> Yeah.
35:13
[laughter] >> What else is life for you?
35:14
I mean you're such a creative human being.
35:20
But we've known each other a long time now >> it's kind of cool to be able to talk about what else you're curious about where else life takes you aside from this the seasons of creativity. >> Yeah. You know not much.
35:32
I'm like I'm I've been so into >> Next question.
35:36
[laughter] >> I ask a question I have no answer for myself.
35:40
Anyone ask me that what else you into? I'm like really not.
35:42
It's kind of family music. I eat. >> I do eat. >> I like food.
35:50
I don't know if I really want to cook it, but I like it. >> I like to cook.
35:53
I don't do it that often, but I like it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
35:56
How How's your How's your travel?
35:58
Um >> how's your How do you travel now?
35:59
And how do you maintain that balance?
36:01
Yeah, >> because if you're going to go and play these shows and do this stuff, even with the benefits of success and a great team who are in the room around you who want life to be as as I know as someone who travels a lot at this point in my life that I realize like, wow, it it takes its toll. >> It definitely does.
36:19
>> So, how do you approach it?
36:20
>> I think what I'm looking forward to with this particular album is kind of spacing out between the actual project coming out and going on like a full full full full tour.
36:29
Um because I'm excited to continue to like let the art and the album kind of marinate before I'm focused on the shows and and being overseas and doing all those things.
36:40
So I'm kind of excited to just kind of see how this marinates throughout like the winter and like all the different ways that I can focus on Yeah.
36:47
just evolving the creativity.
36:51
>> She just doesn't want to tour in the winter cuz that's cozy season. So true though.
36:55
>> She's just like you're not getting me out of my sweatpants in the winter, man. I ain't going anywhere. Forget about so right.
37:00
Why I leave LA in the winter?
37:02
>> Why would you leave LA in the winter?
37:04
[laughter] It's the It's the greatest. It's the greatest.
37:07
So I always joke like whenever anyone from this side of the world has to go on tour in Europe throughout December and February, I'm like, "Your agent hates you."
37:14
>> And they come out with the coat check and they all got their jackets.
37:18
>> Your agent just straight hates you.
37:18
Like they're just sending you out to like Eastern Europe in February. They hate you, dude.
37:25
>> You know, it's the grind mode.
37:25
You gotta you gotta you gotta go through it once or twice.
37:31
>> And believe me, I've gone through it once or twice. >> I know you have. I know.
37:33
Do you allow yourself to see what life what else life will feel like [snorts] when it's not grind mode? >> Not really. Not really.
37:41
I don't know what that I feel like I'd be so bored.
37:43
I don't know what I would do. >> Can you sit still?
37:48
>> Um for like a couple days >> on like an island. >> On like an island. Yeah. Yeah. So you can check out. Yeah.
37:54
>> You can check out >> on an island. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah.
37:58
Where it's designed to check out >> somewhere beautiful. >> Yeah. Yeah.
38:01
>> Some beautiful nature. >> Yeah.
38:02
It's interesting, you know, when I think about like um when I talk to so many artists who um are so dedicated to to what it is you love to create and you get inside it just a little bit deeper and you realize that yeah, there is that part of them, but this but there's also this just like abject unwillingness to stop. >> Yeah.
38:20
I just I can't picture it.
38:20
I just that's the thing about it.
38:24
I really love all of this, everything that comes with it. I love the being busy. I love working.
38:33
I love being inundated and stressed out.
38:36
Like I really really enjoy everything that I do.
38:39
So it doesn't really cross my mind of like I should take a break. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
38:46
>> I mean unless it's like literally like take a break.
38:47
Like I could take a break but I'm not going to take like a break break. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
38:51
It's grindy, but you love the grind. >> I really love it. I do love the grind.
38:55
>> We're grateful for it.
38:55
I mean, this album, Pop Star, like I said, top to bottom is is your best record.
38:58
Um, is there is there a song on here where you feel you allowed yourself to be pushed into territory you didn't know was you were capable of >> where you were in there and you were like, "Okay, I'm really covering new ground here and the song has shown the way and I'm open and I'm going to take these steps." >> I don't know.
39:16
I think there's like a couple interesting moments on this record that feel different to me.
39:20
The title or not the opening track, Sunglasses I feel like >> was very >> a on guard.
39:29
Um, I think the closing track on the flip side, Heavyweight was a bit >> I've done a few like acoustic records on different projects before, but >> kind of coming back to that place, especially on this record, I feel was like a bit unexpected.
39:45
And um, so that was kind of fun to be able to add that element.
39:52
>> For every club, there's always a, you know, after party.
39:54
There's always an after after there's always like a place to go at 9:00 a. m.
39:58
and listen to music, you know.
40:01
>> And so I think, you know, in the grand journey of things, I actually think it makes total sense that you would you would ar it that way. >> Totally. Yeah.
40:06
I think Nobody Want to Dance anymore was the second song that I did for this project after Pop Star.
40:11
So that was interesting because I think I wrote that record Yeah.
40:20
as like kind of one of like the thesis kind of vibes of this project, which is like kind of like a quirky like interesting place that could change the direction of the album into so many different ways if used as like a point of initiation. >> We love that song. >> Yeah.
40:35
So, I think that that was really interesting to kind of see.
40:36
I I typically also don't like to play records that I've already done for like new collaborators because I just like don't want them to even like know where I've been.
40:47
So he can just try to make something completely different.
40:50
>> So you're so so you really when you sit down with people in the room the objective is for you to learn more than anybody else. >> Yeah.
40:58
To to have to be challenged in my own personal experience like do something that's a bit scary or difficult or strange or out of pocket for me.
41:06
And typically that's not what they think I would want to hear. >> Yeah.
41:12
Well, and also to be fair to them, they get if they're new, they get they get in the room with you with with you and they're like this.
41:20
>> So, I really want to cut. >> Yes, of course.
41:23
>> I really want to be on the record >> and I really want the cut >> and I and I'm so I'm going to make my dream tan moment.
41:31
>> And you're like, I had that dream. >> Yeah. I'm like, never mind. Flip it. Reverse it.
41:35
[laughter] Stress something else. Break it. >> Break it. Exactly.
41:40
>> Even down to your artwork, which I love, which is just like Thank you.
41:42
>> It's it's it's such a candid >> photo of you.
41:45
Obviously, you look pop star fabulous, but it's it's not the most kind of perfect framed pop star.
41:56
>> Like this is like your iconic pop star pose from a sort of distance full body shot in pose, the whole thing.
42:00
It's capturing you in the booth doing your thing.
42:04
So, I really want to dive into the inspiration behind this because it's really quite arresting.
42:08
>> Yeah, there was a a definite choice there for two reasons.
42:10
One, I wanted the image to be a bit unexpected in the sense that you saw it and you're like, there's more to this story.
42:16
Like, this isn't just what I expected when I heard Pop Star, and I kind of want to explore what that is.
42:23
And then second, I think the like very up close and personal selfie kind of energy to me was just kind of signifying this intimacy that I want to project with this project.
42:34
Like I really want people to feel like they're kind of getting into like my psyche, getting into like my zone, getting into my feeling.
42:41
And this is so much also I think >> pop star has a contrived kind of stereotype to it. Totally.
42:51
>> Which I also think is really interesting because taking hold of that as a title while knowing that like every decision creatively has been so authentic and absolutely not contrived that there's I think just like an interesting I guess >> it's a conversation. >> Yeah. No, it is. It is. It's cool.
43:08
It's really It's like a punk variation of a term that gets kicked around as something that comes off a conveyor belt. >> Yeah.
43:15
>> And it's it's actually taking ownership of that.
43:16
That and the contact lenses which are another [laughter] >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You know, stareyed.
43:21
Cuz I think there's this also this feeling throughout this album of this stareyedness and how there's this like weird bittersweet feeling I think of being in the industry, being in Hollywood, being in music, growing up in LA, like having this like dreamy romantic like I could have this Hollywood beautiful dream happen right here. Everything's possible.
43:44
And then also like this reality that you're kind of constantly faced with.
43:49
And I think that there's like this to me like the concept of like feeling stareyed and like always trying to like go back to that feeling that I like initially felt as a child of like which sparked the path that I've now kind of gone on.
44:02
I think that there's always like a willingness and and a hope to like hold on to that and and like what does that mean?
44:09
What does that look like now?
44:11
>> Well, you have to because we know the reality of coming to Los Angeles once you land here is it ain't that. >> Oh yeah.
44:16
>> It's it's like really gritty. It's really lonely.
44:18
It's like super competitive to the point of psycho.
44:20
And at night when you think it's all going to light up, it doesn't.
44:23
It gets dark as It's like literally the only light on the streets are these couple of like little kind of like lamps off that are on the pavement.
44:31
They're about a 100 meters apart and everything else is pitch black. >> Totally true. >> It's super weird.
44:36
Like that's why I love this because it sounds like actual late night LA.
44:39
Like when you put when you like honestly like put Crash Out on and drive at night and that is what LA is. >> Yes. I love that. That's the energy.
44:48
That's what I wanted to convey.
44:50
>> That's the LA I didn't expect that I fell in love with when I got here.
44:52
It was away from all the glitz and the glamour. Is it an actual selfie?
44:58
>> I had the I I I was I was holding the camera.
45:01
So, it's like a half selfie. >> It's a half selfie. >> It's a half selfie.
45:04
>> The reason I ask is because you know, you have to be the one to decide whether that's going to be your color.
45:10
>> No, that that was a it was a choice.
45:10
It was like I wanted to be a selfie. >> It's so crazy.
45:14
has to be >> because if you if you had a professional photo shoot where you had 100 shots to choose from and here is your here's your contact did and like the a lot of fans were like upset.
45:23
They're like they're like why would you pick this one?
45:26
We've seen all of the other pictures. They're so much better.
45:32
They're always like they love to say this would be a way better album cover.
45:36
I'm like you guys just don't get [laughter] it.
45:39
>> No, but I love the fact that they're picking better album covers for you. >> They are. they care that much.
45:42
They're just like, "Girl, you made the wrong call.
45:46
It's it's actually it's actually 103B, not one."
45:52
>> But I also think it's because they haven't heard the project yet.
45:53
And I think that once you hear it, kind of explains a bit more to me cuz it's like the energy of the project isn't pop in your face 100% what you'd expect.
46:01
Super shiny, glittery, all of the, you know, whatever that comes with it. It is more nuanced. It is more like Yeah.
46:08
creative and weird and like me in my bedroom recording music on my own.
46:14
You know, >> but you have but you have nailed it with the stareyness of it and the fact that yeah, it's an awkward positioning for the camera to be in, but what it's captured is it's captured almost this kind of naive innocence, >> you know, I would say honestly that that's kind of like as if you walked in the room, take the headphones off, you walked in the room, you're seeing it for the first time. Totally. >> On album 8. >> Yeah.
46:33
[laughter] >> So, it's um it doesn't surprise me there's layers to this Um there just there just is. And you get it. Yeah, >> 100%. Thanks. I appreciate it.
46:43
>> Thanks for coming in every >> Thanks for having me. That was fun.