you made this music this incredible music congratulations thank you i feel like this is an entirely new chapter honestly for me because when i was making music i think i've had a definitely a journey in terms of how i've viewed myself as the creative
and i think when i first started it was very much like diy i was filming everything all my music videos myself i was recording my music you came from mixtape culture and you were doing this before anybody else got involved so like i had that really raw spirit that raw
energy and i think that that really created something special and maybe along the way along the course of my journey there were definitely times or things or i guess events that would make me question that creative voice that kind of always just kind of spoke through me
which is like my instinct in following that and getting back to that now with this new music and everything and just like everything feeling so like in alignment and just like everything falls into place it's so great it's funny you talk about the idea of of
um other opinions other things getting in the way of your instincts and i think that's a construct of success more often than not and people forget that when you get a certain level of attention that leads to a certain level of investment which leads to more
success which leads to more of a connection to that infrastructure and you lose the center of where you came from a lot of the time yeah and it's a very insidious process how that happens i think it's not something that just happens overnight no it's a frog in a pot of
boiling water it really is absolutely you just don't even realize that maybe it's you're taking into consideration the opinions of your fans now you have the media you have you know all these people that potentially run a very successful
business that are trying to guide you in a way that you trust is is the is the right direction but maybe something just isn't aligning and that's it's really hard to then find to refine that voice in that center and for me once i was able to do that i think it just like
it clicked and it just feels so much better oh man i listen you know i i don't pretend to know you very well but every time i've ever spoken to you i've always really enjoyed it and you know i'm a fan of your music yeah thank you but i'm going to make a bold observation
back in 2018 when we spoke around joyride there wasn't the joy i see right now yeah no absolutely not i think with that album it was a process because i had a kind of a disagreement in terms of what that project looked like i think i initially went into it with like all
this excitement coming out of my debut album and like wanting to explore all these sounds and like there we just weren't kind of in alignment me and my record label at the point and it took three years i think for that project to come out
and for me psychologically i don't know it's painful like yeah the struggle of wanting to release a body of work and then and not really feeling the support within your community and just kind of questioning then why that is and it led the it led me down a path of of
kind of just feeling like i had to kind of fulfill an obligation to that project as opposed to really digging deep and finding the joy within the music at that time so i think that that's probably what makes that album feel a little bit
stale or that era was very for me it was very frustrating and um now just having this mentally just the sense of freedom it comes up in the videos yeah you felt a disconnection and a resistance within your immediate community of of um the team you were with from a
label and surrounding but what actually what joyride actually did i think from from my perspective as a fan was it created a support a huge level of support within your your fan community it did because you came out and announced it we had to wait for it yeah and people
realize like she's not happy and then when you decided you wanted to take back your happiness there was just universal applause from your fans and it must have felt nice to know that in a weird way out of that struggle came something ultimately
positive oh absolutely i think i would not have become the artist that i've become if i hadn't gone on the the journey and i'm very thankful that i was able to you know have the low points quote unquote when i when they happened because it did teach me so much
you know i think about this album and i think about how far you how much ground you cover and just you've always to me being take this the right way please perfect weirdness like it's like you totally take risks creatively you've never been this person who sits in a box
it's just we're all figuring it out now um so when there isn't a record label or and no disrespect i'm sure there were good people at the label i'm not totally absolutely i'm not bringing them in to kick them around just as an example though anybody in your circle who's
giving you some kind of structure like this producer that's a structure totally you know um we need a song on this radio format structure when you don't have any of that stuff where do you start for me it was just exp experimenting i would get in the room
and i would say to the producers like what's the weirdest beat that you have because they would always play me something that to me would sound like something that they thought i would want yeah every time no no 101 in the producer writer world is to write something you
think the artist wants when they walk in never do not do not so for me it was finding the opposite of what they thought i wanted and then kind of deconstructing it from there yeah and i think that that was a really fun process of it's it's
interesting because as far as we go because sometimes we experiment really far out we kind of always bring it back to a certain extent as well and i think that that's that's kind of where my sweet spot lies in in terms of experimentation and also kind of
creating music that you know people can sing along to in a sense well one of my favorite songs promises that you're gonna uh sing along to and actually yeah small reminders comes in oh my god i love that song so much that song comes in like classic timeless rmb
with the real high tambourine the whole thing multiple rhythm rhythmic movements and then it just goes off into like almost three or four different suites and by the end of it i honestly think that that last minute of that song is one of the best minutes on the record
thank you just what you're saying and the way you're saying it it's like a love letter to yourself it's like you're trying to nurture yourself how did you how did you make that piece of music where did that come from well it started it was a journey in in
terms of creating it and and reflecting it sonically how i wanted to go through the motions but i think it started off with the main piece of music at the beginning which is time is racing life feels so long don't go wasting before it's all gone and having that kind of
sentiment of being joyful in that but also there's like a reflectiveness in that there's there's a it kind of circles back and when the music slows down and has that moment at the end i think that that's a moment of reflectiveness and i kind of
i think literally talk about looking in the mirror and and i also think that while i was creating this record there was a lot of self-reflection going on this album it just delivers on your previous your first independent release it it further delivers on all of that
sense of creative excitement and and if i was to take one element out to focus on right now vocally easily your best performance on any record and it sounds like you were having a lot of fun experimenting and trying things with your voice because
there wasn't that like oh it's gotta fit this format or the structure like that song is a perfect example of to me it doesn't fit like a particular genre at all and that's why i love it is because it's just a sonic experience yeah and i wasn't kind of limited by that
mentality of like oh this it has to go from this connection to this connection right this is how it's structured this is how it's formatted you know you got your bridge and then you got your hook and then you got your post hook um and just like not following
those rules like forget the rules i'm thinking about the video bounce and what an unbelievable expression that is like the choreography in there is one of the most unbelievable things thank you just must have been so much fun to do but also you know really challenging as well
because you know it is that that highest level of choreography and dancing that when you see someone at the top of their game and the dancers that you built around you never take from you but that moment when you all reveal each other one by one by one it's
so crazy so yeah so just talk me through the video because when i watched it it really was i was like wow this is just so incredible yeah well it started with the vision of just having the trampolines like i just had i was like i have this vision and trying to
explain it to everyone i was like okay you know okay go yeah the music video here it goes again with the with the uh treadmills treadmills and just how awesome that video was in in the way that they incorporated this like mundane object in
a ironic and yet not completely unironic way and it was awesome i was like i want to do that but you did more than that it's like you created a new style of dance it's like the way that your work you're using gravity it's you know dancing is a constant
fight against gravity at all times you are going almost it's almost like you shot the video in reverse yeah does it make sense yeah i mean it was hard like we were we had bruises all over our knees we people were throwing their hips out like it was like it was a real it was a
real thing so the fact that we achieved it and kind of captured it i was just i'm really excited so so okay do you get emotional when you watch something back and it gets to that point where you know you achieved it or you listen to something back
does it strike you i know it's a strange question because of course you wouldn't release it but i mean overly emotional how do you feel i guess is the question i feel like honestly those moments are hard to come by when you when you truly get emotional
because you you are kind of going through the motions you're like you're making this decision then you're like okay now i gotta post it now i gotta do this like it like it's just it becomes part of it it becomes part of just like how the process
but but that's so critical to enjoy those and to have those moments of reflection so i try to have them as much as i possibly can i try to especially when i'm like complaining i try to be like okay wait i'm really grateful you know oh that's interesting
because like everyone on the earth has a right to complain once in a while that's like part of what creates space you got to let it out right but then you've tried you're trying to build this you're practicing this building this world around you of gratitude
to create balance and equilibrium so what's your relationship like with frustration yeah i think it's it's to me it's just presenting it in a way where you don't let it get too deep and it's being able to go through emotions feel them use them or take the lesson
out of them to apply them to make it better find a solution or to just feel sadness disappointment frustration whatever and then move through that emotion like recover i feel like that's the growth is the recovery period it's not that you ever don't ever get
frustrated or it's not that you don't ever get disappointed it's that you can recover faster well if you don't recover it becomes part of your next learning and you learn less and less and less and that lead and that's where ignorance comes from and i feel like the
the shadows or like the tail ends of of the things that we go through all the time bleed into like other things that we do and before you know it there's like a whole accumulation of like all these things and and it's just important to kind of move
through those things so that you don't hold on to you can only hold on to so much and i feel like especially when you're creative and you're and you're using that as you know the thing that always kind of moves you forward to let the emotion overwhelm you it happens to artists
all the time like we're very emotional beings so if we hold on to it all the time as opposed to using the music to kind of like release it i think it could be dangerous so i get it i have this thing where i try to protect present my best and protect the rest as
much as i can yeah but that can be that can be bad that could be bad because then that's my point you can end up repressing this actual natural need to just go this is part yeah how do you feed your emotions in a healthy way where do you go to to give them a
stretch the music always is the way that i'm able to express them and what about other people's music oh other people's music as well totally i think that that's always when i felt the most melancholy or like the most deep is when i'm kind of like listening to music
for some reason it just brings it out like justin vernon gets i was just about to say i was literally just about to say his music i could listen to the four emma forever ago and i'll just be like [Music] god this song i feel this song here just
the way that it starts the first opening notes it just feels instinctual and i think that's why it brings it out of you because it's just like it's that natural part of you that is within him that makes that art i know it's kind of a more obvious thing but i want to pay
respect to some of the collaborators on this record because you cover some great ground and i want to start with cash she's awesome awesome and i have this thing about cash pedro i'm like when are you all going to catch up yeah like when are you organized figure it
out hopefully we'll help this will help yeah this will definitely help it's awesome so so what is the environment in which that you hear cash page and recognize this isn't just a new artist or an artist this is one for me i'll take it with me
i think for me i just kind of always look again for that like intangible quality there's just something about her that i think is really special and and working with her i think it was really reflective of that like it was so effortless her verse i feel like
fit so perfectly and elevated the song in such a way that was so easy and she just kind of sent it to me like it was very easy as well she was like i just i just did this let me know and um yeah and i think that that's that's what i look for in a collaboration
is that it doesn't feel contrived or forced or put together it just feels like an effortless like combining of the energies the way that you incorporate your sexuality into your music is incredible i think of you as like as a in the same sense janet um well she's like my idol i mean
britney immediately took control and i think both of those women really kind of have taken i love when when women can take sexuality and flip it and make it soft and make it hard and make it both like bad and also vulnerable well hi jeremiah you
go sit over there and you do that yeah which is amazing you know because it's like you know it's it's always it's so historically and frustratingly being the other way around and i think that right now hopefully it feels like when these albums like this artists like you
are taking strong steps towards resetting that balance does it feel that way for you yeah i think so i hope so i i think it's it's important to be a part of that for me that's just how i also i think how i express my sexuality a lot of the time
because um i just feel so empowered when i'm on stage or when i'm performing that that honestly kind of it's like there is a sexual energy that kind of comes through you know to a certain extent there's like a power in that there's also you know invulnerability and in
softness and in sensuality all connection totally and tactility those are things that's the thing about performing is it's for fans it's the closest pretty much any of us will get to tactility within the artistic space and that's why that friction and that
energy is so electrifying because it's unrequited at its core absolutely and i love being able to play with that dynamic and i love when the music sounds like that when the videos look like that creating that tension i love it so fun i feel like my fans love it too