0:15
Here we are again. Here we are again. I love it. Good to see you.
Search this video
0:18
You're in the the the dark cavernous Is that a man cave? Is that a bar? Where are you located?
0:26
I'm I'm in the very light colored alternate universe.
0:28
Yeah, you you look a lot more peaceful than my kind of dungeon.
0:34
I'm I'm down here in the This is the bar, actually. But it now it's office. It was a bar.
0:40
It was a kind of a kind of a cool place to hang out and have people friends over.
0:45
But in COVID times, it's an office.
0:45
And I got a mic hooked up here and all my computer crap and mail and all the other stuff.
0:52
I feel like all of your BDSM dungeon equipment is hiding in the shadows behind you. That is you.
0:57
Do you want to talk about that? No. No, look.
0:59
Look, I am actually in my acupuncture office.
1:02
You may recognize the acupuncture shelves behind me.
1:03
I am in fact in an acupuncture office, but it's not mine.
1:09
Are you just renting one out or what are you doing?
1:12
I'm borrowing fast Wi-Fi in an undisclosed rural location where my internet speed is otherwise 0.
1:18
5 megabits per second, which doesn't allow us to do calls like this.
1:22
Yeah, so where are you I am on a farm and in the middle of the woods, I have a bear living about Well, in fact, probably hundreds of feet from me at times. A real full-on bear? Yes, a huge bear.
1:38
It's a gigantic healthy black bear.
1:40
Like a friendly, trained one kind of thing or Not trained, no tricycles, no tricks, no dancing in on the sidewalk for pennies.
1:49
This is a wild black bear. We haven't yet met.
1:53
Uh I've met fox, coyote, all sorts of other animals, but have not yet met the bear.
2:00
Just seeing photographs that my friends have taken.
2:04
Have you done bear training?
2:06
I have not done any bear training. So, that's a real thing. Yeah.
2:08
No, I haven't, but our mutual friend Mike Meza sent me photos last weekend.
2:11
He went up and did some He lives in Montana and he did some bear training.
2:15
Like they bring you real loud bears that'll tackle you.
2:20
That's where he's like wrestling with big dudes with beards? Is that Pretty much.
2:23
Like they throw you in the ring. Exactly.
2:26
I think I did otter training when I was in San Francisco, but no real legitimate bear training.
2:30
I've done raccoon and squirrel.
2:32
Those are my my two certifications.
2:35
If if people have not actually seen Kevin's raccoon video, he's not lying.
2:40
He He didn't actually do any raccoon training, but you got thrown into the swimming pool and like turned into an Olympic swimmer in moments to defend to defend your your your little pup toaster.
2:53
People can search Kevin Rose raccoon and get to that.
2:56
I haven't done bear training.
2:58
If you're in Montana, you need to legit bear training because you have terrestrial great white sharks, aka grizzly bears, which are very very different from the supposedly The black bears are pretty chill, right?
3:13
They They seem like they avoid humans and tend not to prey upon humans. So, that's a good thing.
3:18
You carry bear spray, though, I take it.
3:21
I do not currently carry bear spray.
3:24
Uh make a lot of noise when I'm hiking. Mhm.
3:27
But, that's about it at this point.
3:29
Probably should do more research, but one of the things I've been getting into is plant and suppose this would be a subset of that, but tree identification.
3:36
So, that's been something I've been spending a lot of time on.
3:38
I've been doing probably 2 to 3 hours of hiking in the woods per day.
3:44
And that involves a whole bunch of gear aside from my my lack of bear spray.
3:48
So, I wear a LimitekTic pants.
3:50
They have permethrin in the fabric, so you avoid ticks, which is super important if you're anywhere uh certainly on the East Coast and anywhere else.
4:00
And then, have you ever seen a GoRuck rucksack?
4:03
I believe they're based in in San Francisco.
4:06
No, I don't I don't believe so.
4:09
They are backpacks designed by uh well, the CEO and founder, who's former special forces, to carry uh customized weight plates.
4:19
So, for a a replacement to running, because I like to think that I like to want to run, but I don't actually enjoy running very much, and it it bothers my knees.
4:32
You can do these weighted hikes, where you'll have, say, 20 or 30 or more pounds on your back, but the backpacks are specifically designed to carry these square weight plates that sit high on your upper back, so that you can have better ergonomics as you hike. And it's been awesome.
4:48
I'll just I was just I'm curious about that, because I have a weighted vest that I have, you know, the standard one like you order on Amazon, and I was using on the treadmill sometimes just for like a super low-grade but, you know, adds an extra 15 or 20 pounds.
5:03
How is this I take it just position the weights position better, so you don't hurt your back?
5:07
Yeah, the way that it's pitched, and I've I've only used a weight vest once, just as a quick side note.
5:13
So, when I used a weight vest, I had no point of reference.
5:16
This was probably 2008 or 2009 when I was working on the 4-Hour Body, and I thought, I can work with a weight vest.
5:24
And this was I think it was before they used weight vests in the CrossFit Games and so on.
5:30
And I had no idea how much weight to use, and I was like, "Ah, I'll just get like 50 or 60 pounds.
5:33
That seems like a good a good starting point."
5:36
So, I put on 60 lb, and I would usually go for like a 3-mi walk in San Francisco, and I got 3 mi out, and I was like, "I'm [ __ ] done. I can't do this."
5:46
And so I left the vest on the sidewalk and walked back.
5:51
I couldn't I couldn't hack it.
5:53
It was also in the summer, but if you read the website, would be led to believe that the vests have more of a suffocating effect because you also are carrying weight on the chest.
6:06
These are intended to mimic more of long-distance piggybacking ergonomics. Yeah, right.
6:14
And it's actually piggybacking, but with the weight higher up on your back.
6:16
So I've found it surprisingly comfortable.
6:20
I have some spinal issues in my upper thoracic back, so let's just call it lower cervical.
6:28
And wearing backpacks for long periods really bothers my back, but the these bags actually allow me to train usually for no more than about an hour and a half without any subsequent back pain as long as I don't overdo it.
6:43
So it's been it's been really nice to build up the lower legs.
6:47
I'm also jumping rope, using both in a way to prepare for possible trail running. And feeling great. Feeling just fantastic.
6:57
I'll listen to audiobooks or do phone calls typically while I'm doing that. Two questions.
7:00
One, I had always heard, at least back in the day, like when you're backpacking, they'd always say you get a backpack where all the weight is kind of pushed down to your hips, so you're carrying it on your hips and it's not so much on your back.
7:10
Why wouldn't you want something like that?
7:14
And to your jump rope point, did you hear that Tyson's going to fight again?
7:19
I did hear that Tyson's going to fight again. It is crazy.
7:21
Well, start start with the the hip stuff. All right.
7:23
So the hip stuff, I I would imagine if you are carrying a lot more weight, or if you're just hiking for efficiency and not as a workout, that probably makes a lot of sense.
7:33
What I have found personally is that if I have a backpack with a weight strap and shoulder straps, maybe I'm just using them incorrectly, But it tends to pull me backwards and I jut my head forward quite a lot.
7:48
There are training recommendations and guidelines on this this site.
7:49
I think it's just goruck. com. And I follow those.
7:53
So they encourage you not to lean forward.
7:56
They encourage you to stand up straight.
7:57
And very deliberately do not have a chest strap or a waist harness.
8:02
I'm sure you could train with other approaches.
8:04
But the fact of the matter is my Let's just call it upper upper middle back always hurt after a short period of time of carrying backpacks.
8:15
Wherever I would be walking around in the city, whether it was San Francisco years ago or in Austin or elsewhere.
8:18
And doing this I got a great workout but without that subsequent It's really spinal pain.
8:28
Basically the musculature around the spine or maybe maybe even the connective tissue. It's really bad. that too.
8:33
So when it when it seizes up too, I don't know how many times you've had your back seize on you where you like you just can't move. Oh my god.
8:38
It's like it's like worst. It is. Yeah.
8:40
And like I have two little monkeys like hanging on me all day long with little girls, you know.
8:45
And I'm just like they just tweak you one way or now like I'm in my 40s like if I cough my with my head pointed the wrong direction, my back is just like just like seizes up on you.
8:55
Well, I feel like that's a good segue to uh what lazy bastards we are compared to Tyson who's in his 50s, isn't he? I know.
9:04
He's he's like six almost 60.
9:04
So let me ask you a question like straight up. $10 million. No, no, no.
9:08
That's not enough money for Tim Ferriss.
9:11
Tim Ferriss uh $200 million. No bullshitting.
9:16
No falling to the ground.
9:18
Would you step in the ring with Tyson today? Absolutely not. No. I wouldn't. There's no [ __ ] way.
9:25
You don't think you could win?
9:29
Well, number one, absolutely would not win.
9:31
Dude, you have a black belt. I mean yeah, in judo. I mean it's sport judo.
9:36
It's very different from like raised in I think it was Brownsville with you know, the world of negotiations. Oh, absolutely.
9:46
If we're talking boxing or anything, unless I jumped guard and just hung on for dear life like a koala like koala bear, I would not last one round.
9:55
I probably wouldn't last one minute.
9:57
one I think you could last one round. I don't think so, man.
10:00
If you covered up completely like you just put your arms in full turtle position and just let him punch you in your arms, your [ __ ] head would fly off.
10:10
Yeah, I most people have not been hit by a trained fighter.
10:16
I've been hit by trained fighters and it's a lot worse than you think it is. It's a lot worse.
10:22
And as someone who's had head trauma before and concussions, cuz I was never a very good striker.
10:29
I was I was a better grappler and I wasn't a great grappler either, but I was I was decent with a lot of wrestling background and Judo and so on, but I would just get whacked in the head.
10:39
Have you ever seen Spaceballs Yes, of course.
10:42
where what Dark Helmet is held at bay with one arm and he's swinging and isn't hitting anything.
10:48
I was basically Dark Helmet whenever I sparred because I was heavy for my height and so I'd end up with these god damn 6'2" like 150 pounders who would just tee off on my head from a distance non-stop.
11:02
And I ended up I think with some long-term damage and consequences from that.
11:07
So, traumatic brain injury I have zero interest in these days.
11:10
Uh so, I would not for any price Not even if it was like grappling like MMA style with Tyson?
11:18
The problem is I wouldn't risk it. I wouldn't risk it, man.
11:21
He would definitely get in one good shot. That's right. That's right.
11:23
All that's all it takes, right?
11:24
Like he you could try and then he just needs to get the right angle and then you're out. It's just over.
11:31
the The thing to remember too is that speed goes with age.
11:34
I mean speed is one of the first things.
11:36
If you watch say Roy Jones Jr.
11:38
or a lot of these fighters who had a winning style predicated on speed, once they lose half a step, they start getting knocked out.
11:48
Tyson was very very fast, but he's also ungodly strong.
11:51
And he's got old man strength that has not diminished.
11:57
He will still be very dangerous.
11:59
Have you watched some of his back in shape videos?
12:02
Yeah, his pad and mitt work videos.
12:07
And well, we'll put some in the show notes for people to to check out.
12:09
I mean if they just search, you know, Mike Tyson new videos, I'm sure they'll pop right up. They're terrifying.
12:17
They're really really terrifying because I've I've been hit by some decent strikers and I mean you feel afterwards your the the bruising of your brain.
12:30
your brain is bound ricocheted off the sides of your skull like a big ice cube being shaken in a [ __ ] shaker and that's not good for you.
12:38
You know, it can contribute to depression, it can contribute to dementia, early onset Alzheimer's. I I am so uninterested.
12:47
Yeah, I'll take my chances with the bear over Tyson anytime. I don't know.
12:51
Four Four hour body Tim would have would have might have been interested a few few years ago.
12:54
Four hour body Tim was like Evil Knievel, right?
12:58
Like I'm going to jump Grand Canyon and just wipe out into the wall and break every bone in my body and at the time I think I just assumed that I could automagically repair all of that and the fact is not to imply that there's a lot of that in the book.
13:12
I don't think there is, but there's a certain sense of immortality or invincibility that you have when you're younger which you you learn is very misplaced when you get a little bit older and that's not to play the crotchety old like oh my god once it's 30 it's all downhill once it's 35 it's all downhill.
13:33
You always meet lazy people who say that [ __ ] cuz they just don't want to they just don't want to put in the work because it takes a little more work when you're not in hormonal nirvana to you know keep that little python that swallowed a goat physique you know like dad body at bay uh but the fact of the matter is like without higher testosterone levels and so on your recovery time and and everything else is is extended right?
13:57
So I am so uninterested in injuries these days especially during COVID right?
14:03
The last thing I want to do is put up some home-based parkour course and like break a wrist trying to scale the garage and then have to go to the emergency room. No way. No thank you. Yeah.
14:18
But who now he is fighting oh Roy Jones Jr.
14:20
on exhibition fight with Mike Tyson.
14:25
You don't know what Mike might do. Is it Roy Jones Jr.?
14:27
That would be a huge weight class mismatch.
14:28
Let me just fact check this real fast. But Roy Jones Jr.
14:33
was boxing not that long ago right? It's been a while.
14:37
It is it is Roy Jones Jr. Oh it is Roy Jones Jr.
14:39
Yeah eight round exhibition fight.
14:41
This should be super super interesting. All right. So Roy Jones Jr. I watched a lot.
14:48
And these are both fighters who capitalized on incredible speed.
14:53
All right and now they're older they're both strong Tyson absolutely has a strength advantage.
15:00
Oh Jesus Tyson is 5'10" 240. Roy Jones Jr. is 193.
15:07
I don't know what his height is. Doesn't say here.
15:09
But 193 to 240 that's a big weight difference.
15:13
Yeah you really don't want to get hit by either of these guys.
15:18
Uh so to make that exhibition looks like an exhibition fight on September 12th. That's really soon. That Roy Jones Jr.
15:29
is going to have to dance.
15:31
He's really going to have to dance and I don't know the last time that he had a dance card with stakes quite this high.
15:36
I mean and he might be laughing all the way to the bank, but honestly it's like if Mike Tyson hits you hard enough, you're going to have trouble finding the bank. Yeah. Exactly. Oh my god.
15:48
I'll definitely watch that fight though. Are you kidding? It's crazy.
15:53
It's good to see him back though, man.
15:55
You know the cool thing about it is I saw Tyson being interviewed and he pledged 100% of the proceeds to charity.
16:03
He's He's He doesn't care about making any money off of this.
16:05
He said that's not where his happiness comes from anymore.
16:07
Like it just seemed like really like a different version of Tyson that was refreshing to see, you know?
16:12
Seems like he's done a lot of a lot of work on himself. Yeah, it seems that way.
16:17
I mean it's uh I You know, I imagine off ears anymore, I don't think. Not biting off ears.
16:24
That's a good start in self-development. Stop biting off ears.
16:28
And it seems like he's done a lot of work.
16:30
I saw a video on which was an interview of Tyson describing his 5-MeO 5-methoxy DMT experience. Oh, crazy. Yeah.
16:40
Yeah, and I I don't know who the the sitters were for that.
16:48
But you either have to be really really really good with lots of safeguards or you have to be incredibly [ __ ] stupid to be in a room where you volunteered to hold down Mike Tyson when he's on 5-MeO DMT. [ __ ] that. No, thanks.
17:01
Yeah, you you get a big padded room and you kind of have to do it via Like Like through the glass. Yeah, exactly. All right, Mikey.
17:16
Here's the two Here's the tube through the window. Yeah, exactly.
17:20
You're going to do great. Oh my god.
17:23
Hulk when he like erupts and just like, you know, you can't contain him.
17:25
Yeah, you don't want to be at You don't want to be at a work list of that.
17:28
So, what have you been up to, man?
17:30
It's been actually quite a while since we've caught up.
17:32
It's been at least a few weeks since we had a a proper proper conversation. Yeah, I know.
17:36
And then our last podcast that we did, I mean, we were just in like a horrible place.
17:40
Like our last podcast was when COVID was really starting to hit.
17:45
And we're both like, "Well, we'll see you.
17:47
I hope to see you sometime."
17:48
You know, like we thought the end was near.
17:51
Lisa You still kind of feel that way, though, huh?
17:55
Well, not the end, but lots of changes for sure.
18:00
I'm less concerned about the virus wiping out everyone, which I didn't think was going to happen to begin with, but I didn't like the at the time what we understood to be the characteristics and kinetics of the virus.
18:13
Still very, very glad that I made the public statements and published the blog post that I did, which I still stand by.
18:20
But, I am very concerned about the the secondary and third-order effects of economic destruction and high rates of unemployment, uh very understandable uh anger and frustration and strong emotions coming from not having work, uh not having a sense of purpose for millions of people, and also just having a very, very polarized political machines were capitalizing on that heightened emotion to try to further their aims on on all sides.
19:09
This is This is This is a defining I would say characteristic of a sort of opportunistic political maneuvering.
19:18
So, I'm I'm very concerned about the country.
19:21
So, I'm not the the game is far from over.
19:24
If we had a working vaccine tomorrow and we're prepared to distribute, what percentage of the US do you think would volunteer even if they were told that that it were mandatory, who would comply?
19:38
What percentage of the population do you think would comply and actually get a vaccine?
19:41
And since we don't have any state state to state restrictions in terms of travel.
19:47
I mean, there are recommended 14-day uh right self-quarantines and so on, but there's no real enforcement. real follow-up. That's right.
19:56
Yeah, so what I mean, what percentage of the country do you think would actually take a vaccine?
20:00
Fully distributed, thought to be effective.
20:06
Yeah, I mean, I think I guess it also depends on the window of time that you're you're talking about, right?
20:09
I mean, I think that a lot more people will take it a month three versus month one, you know, it's like that.
20:13
So, um I would say that does it Well, I guess my the the question though is does it really matter?
20:21
Like you and I are going to take it, right?
20:22
Like there'll be a certain subset of people that won't and you know, it's like you're kind of rolling the dice with your own life and at that point there's you've done all you can do. Yeah.
20:35
I mean, it sounds horrible to say that, but like how do you you can't force someone to like stick a needle in their arm.
20:40
So, you have to do the best you can at education, at demonstrating uh safety and efficacy and then you know, hope for the best.
20:49
I would say though it's probably going to be more than you would think.
20:52
Uh Well, what percentage of folks get the flu shot every year?
20:56
I guess that would be a good proxy.
20:59
Um Yeah, I don't know is the answer.
21:02
And then and then I would say it would it would be higher than that cuz flu is very optional for a lot of people, not as deadly, so um yeah, it's it's hard.
21:09
It's It's hard to to back into a number like that, but I I would imagine it would be somewhere around 70% or or greater.
21:17
What do you think it would You were probably thinking like 20%?
21:17
I'm thinking 20 to 30% by month three.
21:20
That would be my That would be my guess. That's what I would bet.
21:25
Are you doing it month one?
21:25
You know, this is this is where we're going to get ourselves into trouble.
21:28
I'm not a medical professional, not giving medical advice.
21:34
I would not want to be the first monkey shot into space, uh but we might edit this out later cuz I also don't want to discourage people from getting a vaccine, but if the if we're breaking every land speed record in developing a vaccine for a virus that we understand very incompletely, you know, I have my own misgivings.
21:56
I I do think vaccines are incredibly valuable to the individual and to community and humanity overall.
22:06
And we we simply don't have a lot of data on on this virus, so Well, to your point about the economy though, that I think that's going to be the difficult piece of this in getting folks back to work and getting the average consumer to trust restaurants
22:21
again, to trust bars again, to trust all of concert venues, all of the things that we used to do to to drive up the economy and and, you know, uh I just can't see it bouncing back as fast as people have said it's going to. Um I think I I think we're in minimum
22:36
Um I think I I think we're in minimum you know, year and a half, two year. Yeah.
22:42
Tough tough tough trench. Yeah.
22:45
So, I I got As you put it as as you poetically put it to me sometime ago, I think we're in for a slow donkey. I think Slow donkey.
22:54
I think we are looking at a slow donkey here.
22:56
Yeah, sometimes people quote you and you're like, there's no way I said that.
22:59
Like, I definitely said that.
22:59
That That sounds like something I would say.
23:02
Um so Well, here's the crazy thing, man.
23:04
Like, I've been thinking more about universal basic income.
23:08
And And the one thing the the biggest At first, I was like, "No, there's no way. Why do we need it?
23:15
It seems like a waste of money.
23:16
You know, it's like just giving out money doesn't seem to be a solution for anything."
23:19
And then, 2 weeks ago, a new uh API came out from a group called OpenAI, which is this artificial intelligence group.
23:31
Have you seen anything created by this GPT-3?
23:32
Have you seen this at all?
23:34
I've seen Chris Sacca's experiments with it.
23:37
I haven't played with it yet.
23:39
He's He seems incredibly impressed.
23:40
I don't know uh what his involvement is, if any, but It's It's like So, what I saw It seems nuts.
23:49
It was Some of the demos that I've seen lately are uh you give the AI a couple websites.
23:55
You go like, "Here's a website I like, and here's another website I like.
23:58
Now, design me a website that looks like those websites, but is about a text-based messaging app."
24:02
And it literally created a beautiful, ready-to-go, fully-designed website in like minutes that it came up with.
24:10
Holy [ __ ] And you're like, "Well, there goes all the graphic design jobs."
24:16
Like, you know, like, maybe not in the next 6 months or next year, but that is where it's going.
24:22
And like, if that's going to be on a whole Like, AI is going to kill so many technical jobs.
24:27
And And it it's it's it's crazy.
24:31
I I don't see any way out of this.
24:33
Like, you have to become like a basket weaver or a potter or a or a cult leader.
24:39
Those are That's immediate what That's the first thing Darya said.
24:42
I was talking to my wife about it.
24:43
She was like, "You know, it's going to be down to like artisan craft, like the AI can't do like touched by human hands."
24:49
I'm like, "Well, yeah, but like, how many people need baskets?
24:54
Like, how many You know what I mean?
24:56
Like, how many artisan like artists do we need to be doing this?
24:59
Like I I just don't know that there's that many jobs there.
25:01
So maybe something like universal basic income does make sense when eventually that hits.
25:08
Um and and I worry they they talk the talk now on the street is that a lot of these jobs just aren't going to come back.
25:16
You know they Talk on the talk on the street.
25:17
That's a phrase I haven't heard you use. street like Wall Street. Oh, okay. Yes. it.
25:25
The word on the street or around the corner the neighbors are saying I got it. All right.
25:30
Yeah, the jobs aren't going to come back.
25:32
Yeah, I mean if if this is like V1, right?
25:36
If this is rough draft, it's hugely I mean it's awesome in the like 18th century sense of the word, right?
25:45
I mean it's awe-inspiring and kind of staggering in its implications and also really terrifying. Mhm. It is.
25:54
It's It's like writing books now.
25:54
You like you're you're going to be soon out of work as Did you see some of the stuff it's writing?
25:59
Like you can say write me a bedtime story and then it just goes and creates these beautiful like you could take that, tweak a couple words, and like put your name on it. And people will do that.
26:08
And it's not going to show up again in any plagiarism dictionaries or anything like that.
26:12
It'll but it'll be like 90% AI written. Yeah.
26:17
I mean that would be a way to rough draft stuff, right?
26:19
As as as I although I I have to imagine it's pulling from other sources that might end up then having claims of plagiarism, but maybe not.
26:32
other sources in the terms of creating its its mental model and understanding model of the data.
26:36
So but so are we all, right?
26:39
Like the only reason you can write your books is cuz you're pulling from all your childhood experiences and all the other crap.
26:43
So it's the same All the crappy childhood experiences also.
26:48
Uh Saka, for those people who don't know, very very very successful investor, previous operator, first fund of delivered something like 250 X, I guess. And has done very well.
27:02
He drafted a number of tweets and then let Open AI, but that's not the phrase he used.
27:11
It's What was the other term that you used? Oh, GPT-3.
27:15
GPT-3, what does that refer to?
27:15
That's just the most recent iteration of this type of technology.
27:20
It was two and now it's three.
27:22
I don't know what the GPT stands for exactly. I can find out though. Catchy, catchy.
27:25
First I thought he was talking about Grand Theft Auto and he smoked too much weed.
27:28
I wasn't sure what he was texting me about.
27:30
And he he wrote a string of tweets and then he let GPT-3 write the next two or three.
27:39
And effectively impossible to tell apart, right?
27:43
I mean, they did seem like tweets that he would write. It was spooky. It's really cool.
27:47
It For those of you that are listening like I have no idea what these guys are talking about, like definitely go on Twitter, type that in and and just look for They have so many examples being tweeted out. They're just fun.
27:58
They're crazy and fun and wacky and but but it's one of those things where you realize a major shift has happened.
28:07
Like this is truly a big AI shift and that you know, I talked to to Siri today and it doesn't understand half the [ __ ] I'm trying to tell it.
28:14
And and you go into what you watch what this thing can do and you're like, "Wow, like this is an order of magnitude better than what we had just a couple months ago, you know?"
28:24
Hey Siri, tell me predict what this slow donkey's going to do. Slow donkey.
28:29
Toy monkey, slow monkey, slow donkey, yeah. Oh my god.
28:37
That's so [ __ ] creepy, man.
28:37
Why does Siri It's because I said, "Hey Siri."
28:41
Auto activated on my phone and then had slow donkey. I didn't get that. Could you try again?"
28:45
All right, Siri, that's enough out of you. Oh, boy.
28:49
So, you were asking what what we've been up to.
28:52
I mean, I I just for me it's been more of the same in Portland, though, you know, just kind of like enjoying the protests out here.
28:59
Like not enjoying them, that was a joke.
29:00
It's It's been really brutal downtown in Portland.
29:04
Um the weather's been fantastic, uh but you know, it's like you got to look on the bright side with all this stuff going on and and try and find ways to I don't know, just return to some resemblance of like some kind of normal, and I don't know how you do that.
29:19
For For us, it's like Darry and I like on Friday nights, even though we don't leave the house, like we actually get dressed up like we're going to go out to dinner.
29:26
And I know that sounds cheesy, but it's like breaking that pajama routine is a big deal, you know, and like eating outside now is nice.
29:34
Like we're we have a backyard in Portland, so we can go and eat outside, which is is a huge change.
29:40
Um But yeah, how about how about you guys?
29:44
How was it um What do you What have you been up to?
29:48
Well, it's it's made a big difference, at least for my mental well-being, uh to move from a more urban environment to a very rural environment.
29:57
To have access to uh wilderness. Got some muck boots.
30:02
For people who uh are looking for some bushwhacking boots, muck boots are amazing.
30:10
Uh sort of knee-high boots that you can wear through mud and anything you might want to walk through.
30:16
They're They're not actually that suffocatingly hot for your feet. So, I'll throw those on.
30:20
I'll throw on the tick pants and uh just hike for hours.
30:26
And uh there's so much land and so much of the US that you if you're able to move yourself from point A to point B, and there are a lot of areas now outside of Austin, outside of a lot of major cities, LA outside of New York City where you can find space, that has been incredibly clearing for me.
30:50
I also deleted all social apps from my phone 4 weeks ago. That's crazy.
30:59
You know, I did that a couple months ago. Yeah.
31:01
I did the same experiment and I it's been fantastic.
31:05
Yeah, I have I've I have missed exactly nothing of great importance that that I'm aware of, meaning I talk to friends.
31:16
I will occasionally on laptop look at say things that are trending on Twitter that might be relevant to anything that I can affect positively, right?
31:31
Or areas where I can mitigate risks or something like that, but the vast majority of news is going to make you either anxious or really pissed off.
31:41
And if you're not prepared or able to take action on something that is within your sphere of control, it's really just creating energy leaks that will drain you.
31:55
And I realized uh somewhere between I'd say 6 and 8 weeks ago that I was extremely fatigued. I was very tired.
32:05
And it was, I think, because I had so many stimuli in the form of different notifications or apps on my phone, social, et cetera, which were creating these powerful emotions without any ability to direct them towards something positive and actionable. Does that make sense? Mhm.
32:30
Dude, that's And so I've so I so I deleted them from my phone and talked to a lot of friends and also will talk to members of my team, you know, employees.
32:43
Uh we do team calls of various types and feel like the signal-to-noise ratio has improved so much since I did that.
32:51
And I will occasionally, probably twice a week, look at at replies on Twitter because my uh listeners and readers are extremely helpful in helping me to find high-signal articles or research studies that are really relevant to things they know I care about and focus on.
33:16
But outside of that, it has been such a freeing experience and I really feel like social, by and large, has been a huge net negative.
33:27
Dude, it's so crazy that we came to the same realization.
33:29
Like two a couple months ago, I posted on Instagram my like final post saying I'm not going to be on here for a while and the same thing with Twitter.
33:37
And I removed all of them from my phone, all the apps from my phone.
33:41
I And I stopped looking at them altogether.
33:43
I have not been on Instagram since.
33:46
It's been like, you know, at least a couple months.
33:48
And I have gone back on Twitter because, like you, uh well, two reasons.
33:55
One, I some people communicate with with them there over DMs that I don't actually have their phone number.
34:01
And so sometimes there's important things that come through.
34:02
And then also, um there is important stuff in terms of the research I do for my job and investing and on tech companies and all that.
34:11
Like it is a good source of that type of data.
34:13
So, but I I still kept it off my phone.
34:15
So, it is a desktop-only experience for me now.
34:17
And I will tell you, you're right.
34:19
Like the anxiety goes down a ton.
34:21
The notifications to your device goes down and you don't realize You know what's funny?
34:27
I don't know if you got this feeling, but the first like week I I opening my phone, I'd be like, "Oh, I wonder what's Oh, wait, I don't have that app anymore.
34:32
Did you like get that like like a few times you're like, oh, wait a second, I don't I don't have that app.
34:37
The other thing I did, which you might want to try, this is kind of and this is this is just dumb stuff and people are listening like don't like I'm not trying to be holier than thou when I do this type of stuff.
34:46
It's just like it's it's fun to do these little micro experiments.
34:49
The other thing I did is I said, okay, how can I reduce the stress on my phone even more?
34:53
And that would be uninstalling even more garbage that I don't use that might may or may not send me notifications, but with every app there's like a micro mental burden somewhere buried in there of having just like one more thing to check or one more thing that is a potential distraction.
35:09
So, I said, if I can't fit the apps on the home page, I'm not going to have them on my phone.
35:14
So, no swiping sideways for more apps.
35:18
So, basically, I have one screen or do you just have folders with like 75 apps inside them?
35:24
have folders, but here's the rule with the folders.
35:26
The folders cannot swipe sideways.
35:29
So, I like only so that means a total of nine apps and folders.
35:32
So, basically, this is my my home screen right here.
35:36
And so, you can see I just have the apps in there. It's not that many.
35:38
Now, the bottom the re people are looking at the bottom, the bottom the I do have a screen that goes sideways that I put all of the Apple utilities and crap that you kind of can't uninstall like the compass app and the measure app and the calculator and like all that stuff in its own little side folder thing.
35:53
What are the categories in those buckets and those folders? what I have.
35:59
My categories are audio, which means for me that's Pocket Cast, music app and Spotify, Audible, Sonos for home stuff, and Pandora. So, that's good.
36:10
Health, I have Waking Up, I have the Strong app, Dexcom, Aura, Less, Zero.
36:18
Uh for learning, all the the language learning apps that I want to go back to and Lumosity and Masterclass.
36:25
Um and then finance stuff, I have one screen of that, which is um, you know, personal capital, Financial Times, Wall Street Journal, Wealthfront.
36:33
Um, I like playing around with Clarity Money and Barron's and Simplify.
36:38
Um, and then I have home apps like home control.
36:39
Now, home means like I got a Traeger barbecue, which has been a fantastic addition this summer, by the way.
36:44
So, I also got a Traeger. That's really funny. Shut up. Are you serious? Yeah. Yeah. did you get?
36:49
Looks like we're on uh, parallel tracks here.
36:52
Uh, the the one that Timberline 870?
36:57
I got the I actually did get the Timberline 870. That's [ __ ] crazy. That's the one I got. I did get that.
37:04
And so, I have that in Austin and at the undisclosed rural location, I have I think it's a 650.
37:10
So, I got a slightly smaller one because I looked at the 870 and I was like, Okay. it is the 650.
37:16
It's like you can cook you can cook 20 chickens at one time.
37:20
And I'm like, I don't need to cook 20 chickens at one time.
37:21
So, I got a smaller smaller unit.
37:22
Now, I maybe I did get a smaller unit as well.
37:27
Uh, now you have me curious to see which one I got.
37:29
It doesn't say on the app right away.
37:32
Uh, I think it is the smaller of the the Timberline version.
37:34
But anyway, that's a that's a great one.
37:35
So, last last one, so the home stuff has like things like that where it's like, you know, Ring and Lutron and that stuff.
37:41
And to be clear, you have an app you have a Traeger app which helps you to control the grill.
37:47
So, you can check the temperature and so on and so forth.
37:50
Yeah, so we I just um, by the way, wild salmon is running and it's on sale right now.
37:56
Um, but it's it's I've been smoking salmon like crazy.
38:00
I've gone through six or seven different recipes.
38:03
I finally found the perfect smoked salmon that I'll I'll send you which one on the Traeger app that is it's fantastic. Amazing.
38:10
you got to let it cure 24 hours. That's the key.
38:12
You got to let it can't do any of these like little rubs where you do like four two or four hours.
38:15
You got to do a full 24-hour cure on it. Cool. Amazing. Yeah.
38:20
I've been dialing in the Traeger like crazy.
38:23
Yeah, I've been cooking uh, a lot period, right?
38:26
We've been cooking a lot at home and cooking a lot of venison also.
38:29
I don't know if I don't know if you even know this, Kevin, but I ended up uh You know, you definitely know.
38:39
You can You can confirm this.
38:42
I invest in very, very few things these days.
38:46
And about a year ago I invested in a venison harvesting operation in Hawaii called the Maui Nui venison.
38:55
For those people who are not watching the video, Kevin is laughing.
39:01
And really thought to myself there's no way this is ever going to make any money, but I like the ethos and the principles behind it because axis deer are an invasive species in Hawaii.
39:14
Uh they've destroyed a lot of ecosystem.
39:19
Uh they've damaged or compromised coral reefs because of runoff after removing vegetation.
39:24
And uh this operation harvests axis deer.
39:30
And they they just approach it in such a thoughtful such a surgical way.
39:40
And the meat is so incredibly good.
39:42
Peter Thiel is obsessed with this also, by the way.
39:45
And which he And And he's the one in a in a way who convinced me to combine the Traeger with this this Maui Nui venison.
39:53
So, the the leg medallions are better for cooking indoors, but rib racks, steaks, all of that are just incredible.
39:59
And you've probably realized this on the Traeger that one of the benefits of having And for people who don't know what the hell we're talking about, this is a wood This is a wood pellet-fueled grill.
40:11
You can also think of it as a smoker.
40:13
In a In a lot of ways, I tend to think of it more as a smoker than a grill because you're not going to get it's it's more difficult to get say the searing on a burger in a Traeger. no direct direct flame. That's right.
40:26
But but if you cook ribs at super low temperature, like 165 or 185, you just get the most incredible flavor. Oh, yeah.
40:36
I did I did ribs last night.
40:36
I did some heritage um pork ribs.
40:39
Uh by the way, speaking of uh trading uh like places to buy meat, um have you used Crowd Cow at all? I've not used Crowd Cow.
40:48
You know, there are a couple of these companies.
40:50
I have used ButcherBox, which might be similar. I I'm not sure. I don't know Crowd Cow.
40:56
Yeah, so Crowd Cow is essentially what they've said is like, "Okay, there are, you know, a dozen or so, probably more, amazing farms in the United States that are these like small little tiny mom-and-pop farms that don't really have way to get proper distribution online.
41:11
First of all, they don't even know how to set up their own online, you know, site.
41:14
And so, let's go to them and and put them on our site, and it's only like the best small little amazingly run farms.
41:24
And also, they work with Japanese farmers as well.
41:28
So, they get in some of the best wagyu that I have ever had, A5 um certified with all the holograms and everything on there, and they work with a couple really small farms out there.
41:40
And that that's fun stuff.
41:40
So, do you choose you then choose the farms you want to buy the meat from? You pick individually?
41:46
Yes, so you can do it I think how they started was like you had to kind of put together a portion of a cow, like X number of pieces, and then you would save, like you're going in on a cow.
41:56
Now, it's like all I think I that's a feature in there somewhere, but now it's like all all a carte now.
42:00
So, you can just go, "I just want some amazing ribeyes."
42:03
or I want a a rack, and like they're just right there ready to buy. Cool.
42:06
Yeah, ButcherBox kind of mixes and matches, and you get a membership.
42:11
Uh so, I have pork and beef from them as well.
42:14
Another one that is close to our long ago home in NorCal is Bel Campo.
42:19
I don't know if you've tried any of their stuff.
42:24
Now, Bel Campo has incredible ribeyes.
42:26
So those those are the two non-venison sources that I've I've been trying these days.
42:33
But that's that's about it uh as far as as meat goes.
42:36
I've tried to really do a take a less is not less is more, but like if you're going to eat meat, like really do it in as thoughtful way as possible.
42:49
Uh which I recognize is in a sense a luxury, right?
42:53
I mean it it it is uh because we have the the means to sort of explore some of these options and some of them aren't cheap.
43:00
Certainly Traegers aren't cheap.
43:04
Uh Traegers aren't that expensive, man.
43:05
They make ones that are further down the line that aren't the fancy fancy ones that actually do a great job smoking.
43:10
My buddy has one of the ones you can buy at Costco and it it's it's it's phenomenal.
43:16
And they're they're not they're not crazy I mean they're not cheap, but they're not crazy crazy.
43:19
We're not talking thousands of dollars or anything, you know. Yeah.
43:24
So So I've been enjoying really paying attention to the fundamentals for me.
43:29
Just harkening back to what you said about us being in a pretty bad place, stressed out place.
43:34
I mean I was in a very anxious, stressed out place for a really long time.
43:41
Uh once I kind of saw like the the the comet of COVID headed towards play you know, planet Earth {slash} United States since early February, right?
43:50
So I've had this low-grade or high-grade anxiety for months.
43:55
And eventually you just get [ __ ] tired of the anxiety.
43:59
So you want to figure out approaches to to lessen it.
44:01
And for me it's it's really been keep it simple, stupid, right?
44:07
Eat good food, cook food, take time to prep. It's super meditative.
44:12
If you're using a sharp knife, you got to pay attention or you're going to chop your little pretty fingers off.
44:19
Uh and uh I've been doing HRV training, so heart rate variability training with breathwork. Mhm.
44:24
And it's The jury's still out.
44:26
I've been doing that for 5 weeks, twice a day for 20 minutes.
44:27
Can I ask what that practice looks like?
44:32
Yeah, it looks like using an app.
44:32
I'm using one called breath or actually it has a very generic name, but uh this is not to imply that it's the best app out there, but it's still on breathing.
44:41
It's just called breathing.
44:42
And it's a circle that opens and contracts to help you time the duration of your inhale and exhale.
44:48
What is it What is the um the the you know, sometimes there's a 4-7-8 breath, there's 5 and 1/2 seconds in, 5 and 1/2 seconds out. is I think I'm doing 3. 7 second inhale and 6. 3 second exhale.
45:02
And I arrived at that or I didn't.
45:05
I'm working with a doctor.
45:08
I'm I don't want to mention her name just yet, but I'm working with a a PhD who sent me a kit, which includes a pulse oximeter, which you put on your thumb to track your pulse and heart rate.
45:22
And and then Blood ox as well, right?
45:26
And blood ox, although she I think we're looking less at that.
45:30
And then a a resp- a respiration strap.
45:32
So it looks like basically a bra that you put on uh under your nip nips.
45:35
And uh well, it would be just above your navel.
45:38
And as you breathe and it expands, there are sensors that track that.
45:44
And so you can correlate and superimpose your breathing on your heart rate.
45:50
And she would then take me through it would we would use Zoom, share screen, and she would take me through different exercises to identify which duration of inhale and exhale seemed optimal for me in terms of activating my sympathetic, I'm sorry, my parasympathetic nervous system.
46:12
So, more more of a autonomous relaxation response.
46:14
And if people have trouble separating the two, so sympathetic, you can think of stimulating, S equals stimulating sympathetic, like fight or flight. Fight, flight, freeze.
46:26
It's not quite that simple, but useful shorthand.
46:28
And then parasympathetic would be more of the letting go, calming.
46:34
And I have incredible hypervigilance.
46:37
I mean, I don't think we're going to get into it today, but there's a lot of gnarly stuff happened to me as a kid and my system well, as she would put it, I am cardiac hyperreactive.
46:50
So, little things will send my heart rate shooting to the ceiling and then my heart rate will stay elevated for hours.
46:56
And and I that's part of the reason To the 100? of what?
46:59
Like what 90 beats a minute? Like not crazy. Yeah, 80 to 80 to 90.
47:04
But that's I mean, if if we're talking like 6, 7 hours, that's a long time No, I was worried you were going to tell me something worse, but yeah, that is that is That's like, you know, that you probably should be walking the dog at that rate. You know what I mean?
47:15
Like that's not just sitting there. That that is elevated. Yeah.
47:19
And you know, fatigue has been this lifelong battle of mine since I would say age 16, 17, especially with Lyme disease on Long Island and all these undiagnosed Lyme and then later diagnosed, which is how now that people are familiar with serologic testing.
47:37
You know, I I I was tested with when I when I was suffering acute symptoms and they said, well, you're positive for the short-term antibodies, but you realize you've already had Lyme disease cuz you're testing positive for the long-term as well.
47:51
And uh so, I've really tried in the last my dog's pacing all over the place. You can You can see. Where is she? Where are you, Molly? Hiding behind me? There she is. You can kind of see her.
48:07
But, I think she has to pee.
48:07
I might have to take a little break to let her out.
48:10
But, uh long story short, this this fatigue is like my battle. Right?
48:17
It's like without sufficient energy, you you really can't execute well on anything else.
48:20
And by execute well, I would include like relaxing and enjoying yourself. Right?
48:26
Like if the tank is empty, the tank is empty.
48:28
So, the fundamentals, the food, the HRV {slash} meditation, all these things have been focused on identifying like cracks in the vessel where I'm leaking energy.
48:46
And so so a lot of those I've found to be really helpful. Right? Like the jumping rope.
48:53
I'm not talking about like 10 rounds of jumping rope.
48:56
I'm not Mike Tyson getting back into shape to to try to lop Roy Jones Jr.' s head off.
49:02
I'm talking about like 3 to 5 minutes jumping rope first thing in the morning just to get outside to make sure I get outside into some sun ideally and move my body. That's it.
49:11
And if people are interested in the the intersection and the interplay between exercise and the brain and brain health and brain neurotrophic or brain-derived neurotrophic factor or all those various things. BDNF.
49:27
There's a book called Spark that gets into this.
49:29
But, if you want to get out of your monkey mind, at least for me, one of the fastest ways is through the body.
49:36
And it doesn't take a lot.
49:37
It really doesn't take a lot.
49:37
Get outside, walk for a few minutes, jump rope for 3 to 5 minutes, and then go back inside.
49:45
Um So, those are a few of the things I've been doing.
49:47
I don't know if if you found any routines or Are there practices helpful.
49:50
Yeah, you know, it's it's funny um I've just now recently started getting back into meditation, but in a in a different way.
49:58
You know, before I had done um Sam's course, you know, which I think that you've done as well, uh Sam Harris with his Waking Up app.
50:06
So are are you still doing the the tantric self-pleasuring meditation that you told me about?
50:12
The one that you zoom with me on?
50:15
Yeah, we're we're still doing that.
50:17
Wednesdays Wednesdays Tuesdays Every Tuesday Yeah, exactly.
50:21
Um No, no, this is uh it's it's interesting.
50:24
I I was um I was on Sam's app and this was uh uh several weeks ago and I saw that there was a new course on there by Henry Shukman, who is a um he practices uh a certain lineage of Zen and he's based out of um uh Where is he based out of?
50:42
Not Arizona, but um New Mexico.
50:47
And he just had these beautiful 10-minute meditations on these Zen koans.
50:52
Do you know much about Zen koans? Yeah. Yeah, paradoxical.
50:57
So they're statements or parables that are intended to, as I understand it, intended to derail the rational mind, right?
51:05
To sort of sideline the rational mind.
51:07
So like what is the sound of one hand clapping type of stuff? Right.
51:09
And they they're these beautiful little uh unsolvable riddles, you know, that that that that are part of the practice and that they will meditate with them and on them um and then take back their kind of insights that are gathered from these over time back to their teachers and it's kind of like a uh you know, you talk them through with your teacher.
51:34
There is no real answer to them, but they're used as they're very difficult to describe, but they're they're used as a part of the the Zen training.
51:43
And so I had was very fortunate to reach out to Sam and Sam introduced me to Henry and Henry uh uh has since come on my podcast and he had a book that he recently published called one blade of grass by Henry Shukman.
52:01
I'm just pulling it up right now. It's on Amazon.
52:03
Fantastic book that talks about is basically a biography of his life and he talks about all the struggles that he faced.
52:14
He had severe eczema all over his body where he was like hospitalized, bleeding knuckles, like really bad for for decades.
52:23
How do you spell his last name?
52:26
It is last name is spelled s h u k m a n. Got it. Thanks.
52:29
And so yeah, he's a he's this fantastic Zen master and I I I um I read his book and he talks about his path to these stages of enlightenment and how he was able to slowly over time.
52:47
He was one of these people that had a very early experience and didn't even know how to put into words what had happened to him cuz he wasn't training at the time.
52:55
And then later went into Zen and had other experiences and then all the way through to today where he describes the falling away of basically of everything.
53:07
The the the just everything falls away at some point during this training.
53:12
And it's a beautiful story on Zen and really just re-emphasized to me that that I mean he's he's you know, had a career as a writer and he was an award-winning poet and you know, Oxford trained very busy productive human wife, two children and has still been able to go off and obtain these very deep life Uh, he's now kind of flipped onto the side of the they're lasting now.
53:42
The changes are lasting versus going back to reality after a couple weeks.
53:47
Um, fascinating story, but also just one where I I by the end of the book I was like, I need to get back into Zen.
53:53
Like the I cuz I I I don't I told you at some point, you knew I you used to come over to my house when I lived right next to the Zen Center.
53:59
But my my first training uh in San Francisco was at that Zen Center.
54:04
Um, and then I I fell away from it cuz I didn't really take it seriously.
54:07
But uh yeah, so Henry's going to help me really get back into Zen and he's uh I'm I'm excited to to go to he he has the Mountain Cloud Zen Center that he runs.
54:19
And uh I'm going to be taking some courses there and and I really want to take this seriously.
54:22
I figure I'm in my 40s now, it's time to devote a decent percentage of my life to this type of training.
54:29
Like I I I feel like it's it's time.
54:33
I'd love to hear you elaborate on that because I know you've you've tried all sorts of different types of meditation.
54:39
Uh, still interested to know if you recommend the Surrender Course by I do. Michael Singer. Michael Singer.
54:50
But you you have you've explored these various tools and modalities.
54:54
What is it about Zen that differentiates it for you or that you find attractive, right?
55:01
Because you could you could reach out to or get a hold of your one of your magic powers is getting hold getting hold of anybody basically you want to get a hold of. Why Zen? What is it?
55:13
I would say that when I first took my the when I first took the introductory course to Zen, I appreciated the mystery behind it in some sense.
55:24
So, I was attracted to how it could be a strict discipline in in some ways.
55:34
Like, you know, like kind of one of these things where you show up for zazen and if you're not there the second you're supposed to be there, they'll keep you out from coming in and you're you're rejected.
55:44
Or if you want to train and and actually set up a residence there, like you have to prove it by sleeping outside for like 2 months.
55:51
Like all these stories that you hear that Henry actually talks about in his book.
55:55
super hardcore or like you let you go to the zazen uh room and you're you're separated by these like cubicle walls, right?
56:02
And so you're you're sitting in zazen, it's like seated meditation with your face about a foot and a half away from a wooden wall.
56:10
And then if you start to nod off, they might hit you with a little wooden switch. Things like that.
56:16
Yeah, so you know, I I kind of I was initially attracted that.
56:19
Now Henry's discipline that he's into that he's teaching is is a little bit more laid-back, which I which I can appreciate.
56:26
Cuz this is like, you know, when you're going to to to you had to enter with your right foot when you're entering into to sit.
56:32
Like you have to enter into the room the correct correct way.
56:36
You can't cross over the mat in the wrong way.
56:38
Like there's all these rules, right? Too many rules.
56:39
But It's also very Japanese.
56:43
But but I I It is very Japanese, which I you know, we all both of us really love.
56:48
Um but the one thing I will say about Zen and is that and it especially with the way that Henry's been teaching at least that that I gathered through his book and and through our conversation is that they're they make enlightenment less mysterious and less about being a perfect person and making it actually seem like it's something that is attainable by everyone.
57:10
And it doesn't have to mean that you're this ultimate spiritual guru the second you snap into these different states of states of consciousness.
57:19
And that there are these really beautiful moments when people have this flip, like this flip in their brain, this switch that goes and then they're they're jolted, almost shocked into this this state of consciousness.
57:32
Like sometimes like there's these stories of these Zen masters where they'll look at a student in the right way and the the student won't grasp it and the student can't they've been stuck they've been teaching and sitting and they just can't and they'll just shake them in a certain way and it'll spontaneously jolt them in the right way into enlightenment.
57:47
And there's these these funky little things like that that are just like beautiful stories and like you know, you always take a lot of that stuff with a grain of salt but coupled with this koan training which I which I highly recommend listening to on on the Waking Up app.
58:04
They're they're fantastic by Henry.
58:04
Um it it just it's it checks all the boxes that I'm curious about and I think for me the curiosity at this point is the most important thing because it's encouraging me and it gives me the drive to go and sit for a half hour every morning consistently.
58:19
And you know, that's what it's going to take.
58:22
It's going to take a real dedication and I I think that if I can get the proper uh training coupled with these koans and I I don't know.
58:31
It just I I've I've done the transcendental meditation.
58:33
I've done a a few other disciplines and this one for some reason um maybe it's because I'm a Japanophile.
58:40
Like I don't know all the reasons but I I'm I'm attracted to it. Cool.
58:45
Do you know what the training is going to look like and what the meditation sessions are going to look like?
58:49
Yeah, I mean they're very simple. You just sit.
58:52
So it's it's like What I'm more interested in what hap what happens inside the head. So you sit.
59:00
Maybe you shave your head.
59:00
I would love to see you with a shaved head. That'd be hilarious.
59:02
Uh Like big kind of thing?
59:05
Yeah, we can we can be we can be cue balls together.
59:09
Uh and get you some black robes with some some white inner linings.
59:11
It'd be a good good look for you.
59:12
Uh you kind of already have that look.
59:14
You got I was going to say you've seen me with robes on me.
59:17
We've been in robes together in Japan.
59:21
You already got that one aced but okay, you sit and then what?
59:24
What happens on the inside?
59:26
Well, so I think there's a there's a few things.
59:28
One, um the question initially is there is there's kind of table stakes to to play in the arena.
59:35
And I would say like to to even get to that point, um at least for me for me, what I've what I've been told and what I can gather and I'm I'm I'm saying this is someone that is well to pretty new novice to this new sect of Zen.
59:52
Um it's just sitting and and trying to quiet the mind.
59:55
You know, and that means counting meditations, um you know, counting to 10 and repeating yourself, uh following the breath.
1:00:00
Uh it's it's that classic Zen posture of looking at the wall, not closing your eyes, kind of glancing somewhat downward towards the ground with a a fuzzy awareness of everything going on in the room, but no strict focus on any one object.
1:00:16
It's saying to yourself a thought, a distraction, it's okay.
1:00:22
It is uh the weights in the gym is what I need to get to the next like level of of of this.
1:00:28
And so, not getting upset and and getting the mind to where it's a little bit malleable and kind of getting to that place where this the sits are becoming uh longer in duration, but also the mind is calming down a bit.
1:00:42
I think Henry said it best in his book.
1:00:44
Actually, this is a I'm going to butcher it, but I'll I'll I'll I'll tell you the gist of it.
1:00:48
He said that Zen is like pulling the plug being a uh a boat in a bathtub and pulling the plug of the drain.
1:00:59
And initially, you kind of just notice a little bit of swirling, a little bit of like movement of the boat, and then you look around and you see the walls of the bathtub are a little bit higher.
1:01:09
And you're like, "Oh, that's odd."
1:01:12
And then you notice a little bit more movement, and all of a sudden, you start to twist.
1:01:16
And then all of a sudden, you notice that there's a swirl going down the drain, and then there is the total annihilation of all things.
1:01:25
And that's where you're headed.
1:01:25
But you don't But you have to sit at the the surface for a while and just kind of like, you know, slowly realize that even though you're not feeling it, the daily practice is unplugging the drain.
1:01:38
And And you will eventually get there.
1:01:40
So, I'm at the final This is a terrifying description.
1:01:44
Oh, dude, wait till you read his book.
1:01:46
His description of his last tranche of this passing into this I think you would actually really like it because it reminds me of a lot of our conversations that you have had around like ayahuasca and some of the ego uh just disintegrating and death. controlled death, yeah. controlled death.
1:02:02
And he's getting that without any drugs, man.
1:02:07
Just like intense like multi-day meditation kind of things that that happen.
1:02:11
You know, for for I guess a lot of reasons, I think that scares me more because with with the tea, you're like, all right, I'm going to go to crazy town for 4 to 6 hours Earth time, and then I'll be back to some semblance of like normal computation and absorption of what we call reality.
1:02:35
But with the Zen practice, with that description, it's it's almost like a slow-motion psychotic break you've engineered for yourself, and that scares the living [ __ ] out of me.
1:02:45
So, that's Cuz I don't know how to back out of that.
1:02:47
I don't know how to Yeah. You can't. You can't.
1:02:51
That's the thing that's crazy, dude.
1:02:51
I was When you read this book and you get to that point, I'm freaked out by this because when you go there, all of a sudden, you're viewing the world as an illusion, as a completely different thing than you ever have before, and there's no going back.
1:03:09
What does Darya think about this? Is she supportive?
1:03:12
Yeah, she listened to my interview with him and I I in the podcast, and she was like, yeah, he sounds amazing and this is this is the path you want to go. Like I I support it."
1:03:20
I mean, I I don't think he's She's not worried about you like I don't know.
1:03:25
Wearing your shirt backwards and picking at navel lint and like staring blankly at like the wall.
1:03:32
You have to you have you have to listen to his his post analysis of what happened cuz he wrote the book after all this happened and I'm be curious to know if you would enjoy this world. I think you would. It sounds beautiful.
1:03:44
Like every moment is anew and just listening and it there's so much it's it's fascinating.
1:03:50
I'm I'm going to butcher it all.
1:03:52
I think much like you with me and my various uh psychedelic experiments of which there are now many many many many Thousands I don't think for you.
1:04:05
It's a lot and I you've kind of let me be the guinea pig.
1:04:08
I think I'll let you be the first monkey shot into space on this slow motion engineered psychotic break.
1:04:14
I'll let it Tell me how that goes.
1:04:17
Yeah, I mean, that's to support.
1:04:20
I I think well, it's not like you're going to see me in 6 months and like I'm just going to be levitating.
1:04:23
Like this is going to be like a if I if I do it correctly, this is going to be like a 30-year kind of journey, you know, to get to these these places or you know, who knows.
1:04:32
There's no there's no pinning a a date on it.
1:04:34
Unless he unless he like grabs you by your ears and shakes your head and gives you the the Highlander quickening like you were describing. I'd love that actually.
1:04:44
Grab you by your eyebrows and bite your [ __ ] upper lip and like throw your throw you off your chair. Sounds great. That's exciting.
1:04:54
Yeah, you should you should check out his book. It One Blade of Grass.
1:04:56
I highly recommend it to anyone listening.
1:04:59
It's it's a fun auto He has a fantastic you know, British voice.
1:05:02
He's from the UK so his his audio book is is is fun is a fun listen. You know, yeah.
1:05:09
The the British accent gives you an automatic plus 20 points of IQ. Oh, 100%.
1:05:16
at least for at least for any Yanks listening to it, my god. Such a such an upgrade.
1:05:23
Uh you know, I wanted to to thank you for something you introduced me to actually because I've been uh consuming a ton of it.
1:05:29
You remember when you gave me some Pique uh tea, the Yes.
1:05:36
the P I Q U E for anyone wondering.
1:05:40
Not inexpensive, but they're powdered puerh.
1:05:44
I've actually been having almost every morning uh for the last while and it's fantastic.
1:05:51
fantastic. I've been having that usually before I do So, the the sequence for me would be wake up, immediately do the breathwork HRV meditation for 20 minutes, then heat the water to like 170, uh pretty low temperature just because I I
1:06:14
I don't like continually burning the [ __ ] out of my mouth when I forget how hot something is in an insulated mug, and then putting in the Pique uh puerh with uh I don't know if you've ever tried Laird Superfood Creamer, the unsweetened stuff. It's basically
1:06:28
It's basically powdered MCT oil is one way to think about it.
1:06:32
And I've been fasting, well, if people consider it fasting.
1:06:37
I've been semi-fasting until late lunch a lot recently.
1:06:41
And so, I'll have that and then go into that say jump rope and so on.
1:06:47
But uh the Pique is uh It's really good.
1:06:51
Took me a while to get into but I appreciate you introducing me to that.
1:06:54
It's funny because um I I I never know like sometimes I'll reach out to you like if anytime you plug me as someone that can get you stuff on your on podcasts and stuff like that, all of a sudden like do why plug you as somebody who every once in a while we'll do a podcast together and you'll be like, "Oh dude, thanks for that recommendation."
1:07:13
And then like a week later, a hundred random emails.
1:07:19
"Hey, I have this like ball massager. Can you get it to Tim?
1:07:21
Like he would love it and blah blah."
1:07:22
And I'm just like everybody comes out and like give it to It's And so I'm I'm like you're like basically I try all the [ __ ] and then the good stuff I pass on to you.
1:07:31
So Well, I appreciate Thank you.
1:07:33
The Pique is a cool company.
1:07:36
I met with with with the founder and we were chatting about how he creates some of this stuff because they the thing that's unique about it is that, you know, so many times like tea, as you know, is like you steep it and you discard the leaves when you're done.
1:07:52
They steep it, crystallize it through this like crazy process, and then they make it instant.
1:07:58
So it's like you can just pour it in, you don't have to think about You don't have to think about over steeping it.
1:08:04
it's it's like if you took every tea and made it into matcha, right? Like Right. Exactly. Yeah.
1:08:09
And so it's it's really easy to consume and you can't screw it up, which is a lot of people over steep their tea and they're like, "The tea is so bitter. It's so, you know."
1:08:17
And it's like, "No, it's not weird and astringent.
1:08:19
It's just you've over steeped it.
1:08:20
That's the main complaint."
1:08:24
But anyway, that's awesome.
1:08:24
Yeah, they they do they do quality stuff.
1:08:25
I'm glad you got glad you're enjoying it. Yeah.
1:08:30
What what else is what else is new in your world, man?
1:08:35
Oh gosh, I would say new stuff that I'm into.
1:08:41
Um Well, I've got boring stuff.
1:08:42
Like I'm getting into salmon fishing.
1:08:44
That's going to be next year. Oh, I've got one. I've got one. Let's hear it.
1:08:48
Uh I don't You're the app guy.
1:08:51
I'm the idiot who's like, you know, in in 2022 I'm like, "I found this app called WhatsApp. It's really great."
1:08:55
And you're like, "Oh boy, here we go."
1:08:57
So I am I am pretty slow on the uptake when it comes to apps, but I did find one because I was I as I mentioned doing a lot of hiking have been doing a lot of hiking and uh I'm in a very rural area.
1:09:14
I don't want to wander onto somebody's property and have somebody like come outside with a shotgun and be like, "Hey, what the hell are you doing on my property?"
1:09:22
And I also just want to be respectful, right?
1:09:24
I don't want people showing up at my house.
1:09:27
Uh but I I really wasn't sure how to identify property boundaries.
1:09:34
And uh I've I met someone who hunts locally and introduced me to something called the onX hunting app. And it's just onX.
1:09:48
And onX hunt is the app and I'm not going to necessarily use this for hunting, but what it allows you to do and they give you the premium features for free for 7 days, which is super super smart.
1:10:00
If if they're actually listening to this I would I think they would get such better conversion and probably increase their revenue 40 50% at least from this particular app if they had an onboarding process, which they don't, right?
1:10:15
There's no automatic tutorial that I saw, which meant I had to kind of fumble and go find online FAQs and figure it out.
1:10:22
But the onX hunt app allows you to see property boundaries.
1:10:27
It allows you to hit track and track yourself as you hike.
1:10:34
So maybe similar to a Strava in that sense, but in this particular case it's for it's for wilderness.
1:10:40
You can save maps offline so you can use them when you don't have reception.
1:10:44
You can look at topographical view, satellite view, or combinations.
1:10:51
You can take photographs.
1:10:51
So for instance, if I find something of interest uh and I want to share that with someone, I can take a photograph, geotag it, and then just share it with someone else who's on the app. And This is cool.
1:11:06
I'm going to download it right now.
1:11:07
It actually also covers uh fishing as well, which is great.
1:11:09
Yeah, it's a it's a it's a it's an extremely extremely cool app.
1:11:14
Uh so, I've uh been using that on a pretty much daily basis, and it and um really really enjoying.
1:11:22
And who knows, maybe I will use it for hunting.
1:11:23
I don't hunt much, I do it pretty infrequently, but uh if I were to travel to say Hawaii to hunt axis deer, which maybe at some point I will, it's not not particularly easy to do.
1:11:36
I don't even know if I could get permission to do it, but I would use something like this so that I could see how much mileage I'm covering, where I was, where I went.
1:11:42
Perhaps we go on a scouting trip uh during non-hunt hours or on a non-hunt day, and I could take photographs of particular locations that I think might be ideal, Mhm.
1:11:58
and save those, and then I can go back and review that.
1:12:01
Uh so, I've been I've been loving it.
1:12:03
That's that's That's an app that might not otherwise come across your radar that uh you might get a kick out of playing with. It's cool. Yeah, it looks awesome.
1:12:11
I I'll definitely give that a shot given how many hiking trails there are here, uh you know, in Portland.
1:12:16
There's so many, hundreds of miles of hiking trails just right in the city, which is crazy. Yeah.
1:12:22
Um so, I you asked me what I'm into lately.
1:12:24
It actually I do have one thing I haven't told you about.
1:12:26
Um you know, I've been I think that lately I've put on some weight, and I've been able to shed it back off through intermittent fasting, um and then also, you know, doing a lot of cardio and things like that.
1:12:41
How do you typically What's What's your intermittent fasting look like? Just real quick.
1:12:44
Uh 18 hours a day if I'm in if I'm in lean mode, like if I want to get lean, 18 hours a day. If not, at a minimum 14.
1:12:51
I think that's when a lot of the the data I have a a friend out of UC San Diego.
1:12:58
She works with Longo out there and she said that the I was just talking to her like a week ago and she said 14 hours is what she does and that's where a lot of the data looks really promising in terms of just like some of the longevity benefits.
1:13:08
I think if you're going to do it every single day.
1:13:11
Eating from what like between what hour and what hour?
1:13:13
I well I I just basically when I use zero obviously fasting gap and you know when I when I'm done eating dinner so it's our with the kids and putting them down and all that stuff you never know when you're going to actually finish your last bite.
1:13:28
So whenever I'm done I just hit start and whenever you know it tells me to eat again then I then I eat but it's 14 hours after I finish my last bite basically. Yeah, cool.
1:13:37
And so when I'm doing 18 hours you know sometimes I'm eating a late dinner and I I'm not eating till 1:30 2:00 the next day.
1:13:43
You know which is which is a little brutal but it's okay I just have black coffee and I'm totally fine.
1:13:49
and I'm totally fine. Um but to to I actually the point I was was going to what I was going to chat about is that in choosing my alcohol and alcohol consumption especially during COVID there was like this period there where
1:14:02
like March April I was like we're all going to die I'm just going to get drunk the entire time you know I'm just going to Oh I I remember that every time I talked to you you were like hey Dardasha whatever I'm five glasses in how the [ __ ] are you? I'm like
1:14:11
I'm like I didn't say I didn't say five glasses but I said like three you know it's like but it was you know we were we we didn't know what was going to happen and it was kind of freaky and it's like might as well open the good stuff you know. Yeah.
1:14:24
So in in my cutting back and focusing more on health what I've decided to do and this is kind of a crazy thing is like okay wine can get nutso like you a really nice bottle of wine can be thousands of dollars for like crazy wines right like nobody wants to do that.
1:14:40
I mean I guess some people I guess want to do that but not on a regular basis.
1:14:43
So what I was thinking is why not go?
1:14:46
I went to Beer Advocate and I went to their top 100 beers and I've been slowly finding and buying the top 10 rated beers in the world and then trying them.
1:14:59
Like just to consume like if you have ever had the number one rated beer in the world, I hadn't. What is it? It's right here.
1:15:06
It's It's called the Kentucky Breakfast Stout and it is from Toppling Goliath.
1:15:12
Here, let me show you what it looks like one sec since we have video. All right.
1:15:26
So out of the the top beers of the world, I would say out of the top 10, probably seven or eight of them are stouts.
1:15:35
So it's like the thick, dark, rich, funky, slow sip type stuff. Oh, look at that. So So look at the wax.
1:15:45
Smelt on the top of that. That's cool.
1:15:47
Now, who And they're hand numbered. 233.
1:15:49
So you said Beer Advocate.
1:15:49
I know nothing about beer.
1:15:53
So Beer Advocate has like their their top top like some guy in named Tony in Newark, New Jersey who's rating these or who I I think it's community based and and they they have a lot of a lot of the pros and stuff go on there that are really into this.
1:16:04
But But this Kentucky Brunch Stout by Toppling Goliath, it's So the vintage is 2016 so they age these like wine.
1:16:12
Because they are so dense, you can just basically put them in, you know, the wine cellar and let them sit for a decade or longer and then they really mellow out over time.
1:16:22
So I just I picked this up. I found it.
1:16:25
I found a great site actually by the way.
1:16:29
I'm giving away all my best links but the people need to know about this cuz it's a fantastic site.
1:16:32
My favorite place to buy after market beer and I've done a lot of research on this that is my beer collectibles. com.
1:16:42
So, you say after market, it makes it sound like you're buying a spoiler for your Miata or something. What does that mean?
1:16:49
So, what that means is you know, this is bottle number 233.
1:16:51
Maybe they made 500 bottles in this year.
1:16:53
So, it's impossible to find that. You can't buy it new. You just can't buy it. I got it.
1:16:59
So, the site you mentioned is like the eBay of beer. Exactly. It's the eBay of beer.
1:17:02
And so, you can get Pliny the Elder on there.
1:17:05
This one I got on there, too.
1:17:05
This is called the SR-71 by the same manufacturer.
1:17:09
This one's ranked like I think number 12 or something like that.
1:17:12
It's got You can't see it, but there's like a little blackbird stealth bomber on there.
1:17:16
Or not a stealth, but it's a SR-71, actually.
1:17:18
And then all the ingredients and everything are written in binary on the side. So, these are so cool.
1:17:25
They're like culty little fun beers.
1:17:26
So, you you gave a price anchor on the wines, right? Thousands of dollars.
1:17:33
You can go I mean, tens of thousands, probably hundreds of thousands, right?
1:17:36
I mean, get Wine gets super super crazy.
1:17:38
So, what what does one of these very well-ranked beers go?
1:17:43
Okay, so let me give you It's wide-ranging.
1:17:47
So, for example, I got Some of them they can't be aged.
1:17:51
You have to drink them fresh.
1:17:53
So, like there's a The number one ranked IPA or I think it's the number two ranked IPA in the world is called the Julius by a brand called Tree House, okay?
1:18:05
So, the Julius King Julius by Tree House right now, a four-pack on the site is going for $39.
1:18:10
99, and that's the number one or number two ranked IPA in the world. That's so cool.
1:18:15
What was the name of the site again that you mentioned? mybeercollectibles.
1:18:18
com That's such a great URL.
1:18:20
Yeah, it's like it's such a janky site, but like they've got a lot of great great beers on here. It's on GeoCities. That's cool. That's super cool.
1:18:33
Yeah, the the affordable vices, right?
1:18:36
There are certain things where you can get the best in the country or the best in the world for less than 50 bucks, right?
1:18:44
I mean, there are certain categories of thing where you can go very high-end.
1:18:49
I mean, I I think really good chocolate would be an example of that, right?
1:18:55
If you really wanted to have a treat, I mean, you don't necessarily have to break the bank to do that.
1:18:59
But if you're like, "Oh, I want to get the fanciest car, the fanciest boat, the fanciest wine."
1:19:06
I mean, you better have inexhaustible funds or you're screwed.
1:19:13
Uh and you know, at the end of the day, if you think about it, too, it's like that stuff ages really poorly, right?
1:19:20
The The those types of And I neither of us collect that kind of stuff, but if if you if you think of We know people who do.
1:19:29
And it's like 4 weeks after they've bought something, it loses its luster for most.
1:19:36
And I Instead, if you have this uh in the cases we're talking about, right?
1:19:42
The beer or the the chocolate, there's a there's something really special about the perishable nature of it. Mhm.
1:19:47
And it's it's an experience. Right.
1:19:50
Well, that's the key, right?
1:19:53
The expe- It's an experience.
1:19:54
Like that's what's been linked to happiness is like actually having experiences with friends.
1:19:57
And like this is sharing something like that, right? Yeah. It's great. Cool. Love it. I love it.
1:20:08
Well, I got um I don't have anything I don't have any big ones on my on my list or anything that's coming to mind.
1:20:14
One thing I want to ask you before we wrap.
1:20:15
Uh I don't know if you'll share this, actually.
1:20:18
Uh you may not We might have to cut it.
1:20:20
But um what are you So, the stock market is so freaking crazy right now. Yeah.
1:20:26
gold is going up and individual stocks are going up.
1:20:29
And I'm like, well, what that doesn't make sense.
1:20:31
Like, what are you doing?
1:20:33
Like, what's the Tim Ferriss uh 4-hour finance uh version of this? Oh boy, yeah. Be careful, everybody.
1:20:42
Ear muffs Ear muffs, cover your ears.
1:20:47
Uh I'll tell you what I've I can tell you what I've done.
1:20:50
Yeah, what are you doing?
1:20:53
And and it's not so much doing, it's more what I've done.
1:20:56
And I'm glad you asked this because I recently turned 43.
1:21:03
And a while back, I I spoke to my parents, looked at the genealogy, asked a lot of questions, and determined that the average age of death of males on both sides of my family, if you adjust for some outliers, is 85.
1:21:18
So, 43 puts me past the half-mile mark, right?
1:21:24
And hopefully, I'll live until 120, but I've also lived aggressively, right?
1:21:29
So, my system's taken a beating.
1:21:32
And I don't assume I'm going to live that long.
1:21:36
So, I've been doing a lot of introspection, and this birthday hit me kind of hard.
1:21:39
Usually, age, I'm just like, ah, whatever, it doesn't matter.
1:21:42
But, a crossing past that 50% mark hit me unusually.
1:21:48
And I've been doing a lot of journaling, a lot of thinking, and I realized that number one, and you've seen this over the years, like, I don't have a high-burn lifestyle, right?
1:21:59
Like, I don't I don't buy lots of stuff.
1:22:01
Uh and like, if I have a the ability to hike with my dog, my dog and my girlfriend are happy and healthy, and you know, occasionally, I'll splurge on nice food or something, but I don't I don't really You're not a flashy guy.
1:22:17
Like, I've never seen you with a sports car.
1:22:18
I've never seen you with uh a fancy watch.
1:22:23
I've seen you with fancy horse saddles.
1:22:26
That's the only thing I've seen you That's true. That's true.
1:22:28
The only That was like probably the first time I ever splurged.
1:22:32
People think that he's joking.
1:22:33
He's not actually joking.
1:22:33
So, for the for the 4-Hour Body, because I killed myself on that book in more ways than one, and I was super proud of it, and I made a promise to myself because I very rarely celebrated, and that's that's been a weakness of mine is I don't celebrate, right?
1:22:47
I'm very hard on myself, and I feel like you become Well, the story I've told myself for a long time is you become complacent if you over-congratulate yourself.
1:22:56
So, I tend to really not pause and smell the roses, so to speak.
1:23:00
Not you guys, the other roses.
1:23:02
And smell you guys, too, though.
1:23:05
And And uh so, celebrate has been this this kind of word of the year for many years for me.
1:23:14
And when I finished writing the 4-Hour Body, I promised myself if it hit number one New York Times, that I would Horse saddles.
1:23:24
Well, I didn't think about the horse saddles specifically, but I said I'll get something special for myself that relates to Japan because I used to live in Japan.
1:23:32
I have this deep love for for Japan and the Japanese people.
1:23:37
And uh I had around the same time, maybe a little bit afterwards, you might remember this, I did a a a TV show pilot where I went to Japan and attempted to learn horseback archery in 1 week, and I'm pretty sure you can find it online.
1:23:54
If you go on YouTube and search Trial by Fire, you might be able to find it.
1:23:59
It's wild, and it's [ __ ] dangerous as hell.
1:24:01
So, I did that, and I had I had been thinking maybe I'll get a sword, maybe I'll get some type of armor, and then I thought to myself, actually, because I had this experience, I'd really like to to get uh either a saddle or stirrups of some type.
1:24:14
Initially, I was just looking for stirrups because I thought they'd be cheaper and just easier to deal with.
1:24:21
And ended up finding a beautiful wooden carved saddle.
1:24:24
So, I do have a Japanese saddle.
1:24:28
Uh which at the end of the day wasn't that expensive, but for me it was it was like the one of the first times I've ever treated myself to anything.
1:24:35
So, yes, aside from all that and so to to zoom out back to the the question about investing, I realized when I was journaling around my birthday that uh thinking about money generally does not make me happy.
1:24:52
It makes me more anxious.
1:24:55
And at the same time, I feel like I'm pretty good at because I'm hyper analytical and over analytical, you might say.
1:25:03
Like I'm pretty good at futzing around and optimizing.
1:25:09
But that the optimizing at this point in my life, like I figured out a lot of things that make me happy.
1:25:15
I figured out a lot of things that don't make me happy.
1:25:18
Uh and most of the things that make me happy don't require a lot of capital.
1:25:21
So, this is just a long way of saying I decided that I wanted to make all of my investing decisions or like money decisions uh by my birthday.
1:25:32
It didn't quite work out.
1:25:34
So, I gave myself a grace period to uh uh to the 1st of August and then to take a 6 to 12-month break on all of that stuff.
1:25:44
Meaning like I'm not allowed to consider new deals.
1:25:47
I'm not allowed to look at stocks.
1:25:50
I'm not allowed to do any of that stuff.
1:25:52
And uh so, now I'm glad I'm saying it publicly cuz I want to make myself accountable.
1:25:59
Uh so, I'll tell you what I did. Uh it's pretty simple.
1:26:02
Uh I've I've thought about and it's been made more complex as you said because it's Alice in Wonderland in the markets right now.
1:26:12
Like stuff is happening that just by any kind of rational prediction pre-COVID just should not be happening.
1:26:21
There's all sorts of weird stuff.
1:26:23
And then I'm not sure what's happening right now, but certainly previously you had the the Fed buying high-yield bonds.
1:26:28
Like all this stuff that was off the playbook.
1:26:34
And the there's such a dislocation between the market and the economic reality of millions of people in the United States, I mean tens of millions of the entire the entire country for that matter that I I I only wanted to put money in places where I felt I had some informational advantage or not just in my head, but like in my heart and gut just had some conviction that I couldn't quite explain. Does that make sense?
1:27:08
Where I'm just like this feels like it makes all the sense in the world.
1:27:11
And I don't have that very much.
1:27:13
So just to be clear to people, I'm not one of those people who who uh uses the word intuition as justification for lots of haphazard [ __ ] That's just not me.
1:27:24
Uh but you know, you and I I think as a way honestly to kind of distract us from the stress and uncertainty at least in my case, like talked about quite a bit of investing stuff over the last few months, but we haven't talked in maybe the last I don't know, 2 months about this stuff.
1:27:41
And you know, you had some predictions that I think turned out really well.
1:27:45
I don't know if you if you're open to talking about them, but like Peloton, right?
1:27:51
Where I thought maybe that was already baked in.
1:27:52
So I was like, ah you know, like I I'm not going to buy a bunch of different things from Peloton.
1:27:56
I don't have enough room.
1:27:57
I do have one bike and I love the bike, but I'm not going to buy a bunch.
1:28:02
They've ended up doing really well at least last I saw.
1:28:03
So the the question I asked myself was which companies, if we're talking about the stock market, right?
1:28:11
Because I I don't think it helps people if we talk about more esoteric stuff like distressed debt or you know, SPACs or like weird stuff that most people aren't going to have access to.
1:28:23
But when I looked at the stock market cuz my biggest uh I would say my most my highest conviction bets have been in the in the stock market, which you know is crazy for me.
1:28:35
I don't play in that sandbox.
1:28:37
You do that all the time.
1:28:39
Uh but I I I I just asked myself like this was around mid-March and I listened to an interview with Chamath.
1:28:51
I can never say his last name.
1:28:54
Uh but uh interview on investing and sort of his framework for looking at different investments and it it catalyzed a bunch of questions for me.
1:29:03
Some were the same questions he had listed out.
1:29:05
I put I I put this interview in Five Bullet Friday, the newsletter that I put out.
1:29:11
So uh I think the interviewer was Pomp is his nickname or Pompiano.
1:29:20
Yeah, I think we both talked about this podcast together. Maybe I sent it to you. I don't know.
1:29:23
Maybe you sent have sent it to me.
1:29:24
There's a very good chance that you sent it to me.
1:29:26
I mean, this is the kind of thing that you would send to me.
1:29:30
So everybody listening, send your interviews to Kevin.
1:29:34
Uh and uh I began to wonder which companies, technology companies, would do extremely well if COVID were protracted or if COVID were somehow magically resolved in 3 months.
1:29:52
Like which companies would benefit from a short period of dramatic online acceleration even if it ended in 3 months and especially if it continued for a year, year and a half.
1:30:09
Uh and at and the same time I was I was looking closely at other countries like China, where I might be getting the numbers wrong, but there's something like 79% all e-commerce, and we're 17, something like that.
1:30:22
And So a lot of room to grow. Yeah.
1:30:24
A lot of room to grow, and I wasn't trying to do any fancy spreadsheet analysis, and I know people are going to say, "Well, then you're speculating."
1:30:32
And there there might be some truth to that, but I only really considered a handful of companies, and I ended up deciding this is when Uh and now and I can tell you what the prices were, too.
1:30:46
So Amazon at about 2,000, and Shopify at about 380 per share.
1:30:55
And this would have been in very I thought I want to say early April, but some point in April.
1:31:00
And I decided to Initially, I was looking at a bunch of different companies, and what I decided for myself was that if I if if I was dividing my bets because I had low conviction, I shouldn't put money into any of those bets.
1:31:16
And I'm not saying that's the right approach, but that logic made sense to me, and I said, "All right, I have high conviction around Amazon and Shopify.
1:31:24
And if one dominates the other, then, you know, perhaps I still break even, right?"
1:31:31
But what I noticed was when I went I I use Amazon all the time.
1:31:36
And certainly my spending has increased dramatically after COVID, and I remember when Amazon was limited to essential goods, and I couldn't get anything else, right?
1:31:45
I would go to order like coffee filters, and it was like 4-week delivery.
1:31:49
And I thought to myself, "These companies are fucked." Right?
1:31:54
Like if if these people are are largely dependent on Amazon, and they don't have a uh an elegant or effective e-commerce plan B, they're going to need to do that immediately.
1:32:10
And who's that going to be?
1:32:10
And as somebody who isn't a you know, one of the first advisers to to Shopify and then uh one could argue stupidly, but it made sense to me at the time.
1:32:19
I ended up selling shortly after lockup period when they IPO'd.
1:32:23
So, I became an adviser when they had eight to 12 employees.
1:32:26
Now they have whatever, 2,000.
1:32:29
Uh I always kicked myself, right?
1:32:29
Cuz I love those guys and they know what they're doing. They're good guys.
1:32:36
The they're very strategically intelligent.
1:32:40
They're great at executing.
1:32:40
So, I was always kind of kicking myself and I and I'm when they suspended their guidance for 2020 and they got pummeled, I just thought to myself, all right, you know, if you really believe that and you're seeing this kind of trend, then this would be the time to like push some serious chips in.
1:33:01
And it's like either put in enough where if it grows like a and and I kind of in my mind thought, okay, two to three X in share price over the next three years.
1:33:12
Did not expect it to happen in three months.
1:33:14
I mean, that's just bonkers, right?
1:33:16
Uh but those are the only those are the only if I I I don't think I'm omitting anything, but I think those are the the two stocks that that I put a lot into.
1:33:25
But it was really thinking about what would do well no matter what.
1:33:30
And of course, there are lots of unknowns.
1:33:33
There's there's uh key person risk in both of these companies, but they've they've both been really really smart and I I don't know about you. I think you do this too.
1:33:46
I mean, I base a lot of my investment decisions.
1:33:47
This is true for early stage and it's also true for later stage, just based on my personal day-to-day experiences and Yeah.
1:33:55
spending money and how my behaviors are changing and if I see those same behaviors changing in a dozen of my friends, I'm like I think this is the thing.
1:34:05
Well, I mean that's that's the beauty of being an early adopter which you are and which I am.
1:34:07
Like you're early, right?
1:34:10
And if that's true and if all of our friends are early adopters and we're all early on something, we should be buying that stock, right? Because we're early.
1:34:17
So, I yeah, so I I follow the same kind of strategy in that I have two buckets.
1:34:24
I have So, one we should both say neither of us are registered investment advisers and this is not investment advice.
1:34:29
This is just like what we would do personally. Two things.
1:34:34
My sister, what will I tell her?
1:34:35
I'll tell her don't buy any of individual stocks.
1:34:40
Buy Wealthfront, go to Wealthfront, get a bunch of index funds, play it safe, do your thing, set yourself up for retirement, you're done.
1:34:45
So, one bucket of my portfolio is like that.
1:34:48
It's just like ultra safe, like Yep.
1:34:51
slow growth, nothing fancy, lots of index funds, blah blah blah.
1:34:57
Then, there's the okay, let's take this and this is different for everyone in terms of what what their allocation would be what but but some percentage of your overall um net worth and say I'm going to take that and invest in something that I hope will have a blended 3x over the next 5 years, right?
1:35:14
Or 4x, whatever whatever you're kind of aiming for.
1:35:18
And for me it's it's the same bucket.
1:35:20
So, I I was thinking, okay, heading into COVID, what are the things that are going to do better, which would be a Peloton um because you know, gyms are closed, it's a fantastic product.
1:35:34
The churn is effectively zero because when someone else buys a bike that is being sold used, a new subscriber isn't activated, which is crazy.
1:35:42
It's one of the very few products that has like zero churn.
1:35:47
Um and you have to imagine they're working on and they've hinted at this publicly, they're working on other types of equipment, right?
1:35:53
So, it's not just a one-trick pony.
1:35:55
They already had a treadmill, they pulled it back, they said they're revamping it.
1:35:58
Like, that's So, it it's, you know, and it's a like right now even today, it's a $19 billion company.
1:36:05
Like, if you think of this more as a technology subscription play and the future of fitness, I think there's a much larger business to be built here.
1:36:13
And you know, we were talking about this when it was under 10 billion in market cap. So, that's interesting.
1:36:20
Amazon, obviously to your point about e-commerce penetration being relatively low in the United States, this there is no bigger Goliath.
1:36:28
There is no bigger giant than this, you know, beast of a company.
1:36:33
And it's like they're just going to continue to crush everything.
1:36:38
And so, for me, that's not a 3x cuz it's already a $1.
1:36:41
8 trillion company whatever it is now.
1:36:43
Like, but it's, you know, there's some there's there's still some growth to be had there.
1:36:48
And and I it's like I I'm not betting against e-commerce ever.
1:36:50
And especially in a COVID world, people are going to be shopping doing more shopping online. So, I I like that.
1:36:55
Um Square, I love how they diversified their their product offering.
1:37:01
Square Cash is a fantastic app.
1:37:03
So, it's not about brick-and-mortar, it's now about, you know, they're doing stock trading, they're doing Bitcoin purchases, which they made a ton of money off this last quarter.
1:37:14
Um it's about building out that suite of personal finance tools for the unbanked um directly in that Cash app, which is I I just think, you know, it I'm so to my point earlier about the 3x you have to look at lower market cap companies.
1:37:29
You can't be looking at an Apple or an Amazon for those types of returns over time.
1:37:33
So, you know, Square is a $67 billion company.
1:37:36
There's I believe there's there's more room to for them to grow there.
1:37:40
Um what like you on Shopify for everything you've said. Uh Tesla, same thing.
1:37:43
I think it's expensive right now, but I mean they're they're continuing to build up these massive gigafactories.
1:37:51
There's a reason why every other week they're like announcing a new gigafactory.
1:37:55
Like the demand is there and they have a fantastic product.
1:38:00
Um, yeah, I I just love it's hard to bet against them.
1:38:02
Here's one that's interesting that I haven't told you about.
1:38:04
So, I don't know if you know this, but Intel is kind of screwed right now.
1:38:08
They've had a really hard time with their chip manufacturing and getting this this new process down, these smaller die chips.
1:38:15
Uh, AMD has just been crushing them.
1:38:18
But here's what's interesting.
1:38:20
So, Apple also moved away from Intel chips and now is now doing their own chips, right?
1:38:24
So, Apple and AMD, but Apple is not using AMD.
1:38:28
Apple's using their own silicon and doing everything.
1:38:31
So, who makes all these chips?
1:38:31
It's a company called TSM out of out of Taiwan that makes all these next generation.
1:38:38
They're like the better version of Intel.
1:38:40
So, TSM I think is going to be I mean they're already a $375 billion company, so they're not tiny.
1:38:45
But but TSM is massive and now also consider this.
1:38:50
We're going into the fall.
1:38:50
Two things are happening.
1:38:53
PlayStation, the new PlayStation, the new Xbox that are coming out.
1:38:56
Both of them AMD architecture, both of them being manufactured by TSM in terms of the chips themselves.
1:39:02
So, I I I'm excited about TSM.
1:39:05
Um, and then you know, I buy some some gold to hedge all of that.
1:39:09
Uh, and then that's pretty much about it.
1:39:12
I got Oh, you know, Spotify, dude.
1:39:14
I think Spotify is going to be seen as the Netflix uh, of audio and eventually we'll get into video as well.
1:39:23
And I I think it's going to be Um, there's a reason they haven't launched Joe Rogan on in the app yet.
1:39:30
And I think it's because they're revamping My get My gut tells me they're revamping the player and they're going to announce video at the same time.
1:39:36
And it's going to be like Spotify is going to be like the next next Netflix.
1:39:39
I think that was So, I I agree with you and I I one of the discussed publicly discussed but under discussed aspects of that deal was the inclusion of video.
1:39:49
That that his show would be coming off of YouTube and going into Spotify, right?
1:39:55
This is That's the thing that people are like, "Oh, yeah, and they're doing the video thing."
1:40:00
But okay, but look at the audio and look at the price of the deal.
1:40:02
And I'm like, "No, no, no." Right.
1:40:05
That video is super [ __ ] important.
1:40:07
Like, pay attention to that.
1:40:07
That's a big, big, big deal. It's huge. Yeah.
1:40:12
Yeah, those guys are smart. They're really smart.
1:40:14
Do they have the Michelle Obama podcast now that's exclusive to Spotify?
1:40:17
And like, I was It's funny, I was talking to talk about like speaking of early adopter stuff, I was talking to one of my my wife Daria and she's like, "You know, she we just had this conversation last night."
1:40:26
She's like, "Uh Google podcast is crashing for me."
1:40:29
She goes, "You know what?
1:40:29
I'm just going to use Spotify because everything's there and they got some exclusive content now."
1:40:34
And I was like, "Ding, ding, ding, ding."
1:40:35
Like, that's just, you know, it's going to be the default.
1:40:38
Yeah, they're smart and they're being very, very aggressive in ways uh that some of their competition really can't.
1:40:48
Um I mean, they they technically could, but they're just not designed to be aggressive in the way that that that Spotify is being aggressive.
1:40:54
And I'll be super curious to watch this space, obviously, cuz you know, I I I play so much of the podcast world.
1:41:02
But uh Do you think you'll ever join them? I don't know. I don't know.
1:41:05
I mean, the it would have to be an incredibly good offer.
1:41:09
I I do I've thought about this quite a bit.
1:41:12
I mean, as it relates to different options, right?
1:41:13
Because there there have to be some responses or reactions from the big players, right?
1:41:20
Like Apple, Amazon, Google are all going to put a lot of capital and energy into this space because there's there's money to be had.
1:41:28
And if if anyone's playing with music, they recognize that the margins and advertising dollars are much more interesting.
1:41:37
The economics are much more attractive for podcasts and spoken word, right?
1:41:39
I mean, look at look at Audible, right? What a monster. Uh, so dominant.
1:41:44
Another reason that I'm bullish.
1:41:47
Um, actually one of the one of the reasons I I was really bullish on Amazon is I said, and this actually came from a friend of mine, Mike, who pointed out and he said, "What is going to happen with live sports?
1:41:58
How are they going to broadcast sports to millions of people?
1:42:01
Who is equipped to handle this right now?"
1:42:05
And he's like, "Amazon with Twitch is equipped to handle this in some fashion, right?
1:42:11
Like there are there's infrastructure within Amazon that can be adapted for all sorts of gaps in the market um to I mean the the beautiful thing is that Amazon gets paid no matter what because like who Guess what happens when Google taps out their data centers, what they light up next?
1:42:28
They're lighting up Amazon. Yeah, exactly.
1:42:30
Everybody's lighting up AWS when the stuff goes goes big. Exactly.
1:42:35
So, uh let me ask you a question about you you meant so couple things real quick.
1:42:39
So, yes, confirmed that we are not registered investment advisors.
1:42:44
And I think it's really important for me to provide a little more context around my comments where I said I put in, you know, enough chips where it would would would be meaningful with say Amazon. And uh Shopify, man. You said Spotify.
1:42:57
I always confuse the [ __ ] out of those two.
1:43:03
Um I put when I put money into both of those companies, I had roughly 14 times more in cash reserves.
1:43:12
So, this is really important to keep in mind.
1:43:16
In other words, at the time, right?
1:43:21
If I put 2% of my liquid net worth into those stocks, I had something like 30% in cash or cash-like reserves, right?
1:43:29
So, I'm playing it from my perspective kind of safe in that respect and I do not recommend people stock pick in general.
1:43:39
I just think it's a terrible idea.
1:43:41
Uh and And the other thing too is if if if you're going to if you're going to play in this world like there's no such thing as timing the market and you just never know what's going to happen.
1:43:51
Like always dollar cost average your way into any position.
1:43:55
So, that that means like if you have $500 to invest, rather than say tomorrow I'm going to go buy some Spotify for 500 bucks and just call it a day.
1:44:03
Like maybe divide that into five $100 investments over the course of five months or three months, you know.
1:44:08
You're not buying at the bottom, you're not buying at the high, but you're getting that blended dollar cost averaging and a lot of people do that to as a as a little mini way to to hedge and and you know, cuz who knows what's going to happen given how insane this market is.
1:44:23
The second piece that I think is important to mention is and I think Tim, you're in this boat too, but I wouldn't be buying anything that I wouldn't want to hold for the next five plus years.
1:44:32
Yeah, that's that's that's super important.
1:44:33
I should have said that I was planning on not touching these for three to five years.
1:44:39
Yeah, so I mean if if something drops by 40% will I be crushed by looking at the price?
1:44:44
Of course, but is I think long term I'm going to be in a good in a just you know, fine position and that's the way you kind of you you alluded to this too.
1:44:53
It has to be something that you're comfortable losing at the same time, right?
1:44:56
So, it shouldn't be the life savings, right?
1:45:00
Yeah, and we should also say it's like we're talking about companies that we actually really [ __ ] know right? At some level, right?
1:45:05
I mean not this doesn't mean that it's a different type of knowing than reading every analyst report and um it it's just like a a deep product knowledge and the fact that like we both like I I I know dozens and hundreds of companies that use Shopify, right?
1:45:29
As their e-commerce solution.
1:45:32
I use Amazon every day for one thing or another.
1:45:36
And uh I think that's important to keep in mind.
1:45:39
And question about uh I think my dog really has to pee, so I'm going to have to take her out in a minute. She's being very good.
1:45:47
We can We can We can wrap things up. We can wrap things up.
1:45:51
This This will be a good way to expedite the the answer to my question, which is You said you're buying gold.
1:45:56
How do you think about gold versus crypto?
1:45:58
Because you've been very involved or knowledgeable of and tracking crypto for for quite a long time. And are you buying ETF?
1:46:09
Are you buying uh you know, bars in some vault in a foreign country? What are you doing?
1:46:15
And why gold versus crypto?
1:46:16
How do you think of them about them differently?
1:46:20
Well, on the gold side, I I like to look at the ETFs that that do warehouse their own gold and actually have, you know, full transparency reports about actually owning the bars.
1:46:29
And you know, so I I actually buy the iShares Gold Trust, which is IAU.
1:46:35
And I like that a couple that one there the the the biggest one out there is GLD, but their expense ratios are higher.
1:46:44
Um IAU uh I believe there was a couple things I looked into and and it's also like like like providence like where where they're keeping their gold as well.
1:46:53
And IAU had was keeping it in Switzerland and I think one I think the UK as well.
1:47:01
And it just I want to make sure where they're storing it is also safe and secure not in some kind of crazy war zone or something else that could, you know, potentially go really bad on that front. Bank of Sierra Leone.
1:47:10
Yeah, it's like you don't So, you know, I just I I went with that one.
1:47:17
There's a I'm sure that they're all the big ones are all probably pretty decent.
1:47:20
But uh in terms of crypto, you know, I have a bunch of cryptocurrency that is not yet tradeable that I've invested in over the last few years, and so that hasn't hit the market yet.
1:47:32
So, I already see my crypto bucket is being pretty full.
1:47:36
I don't think holding Bitcoin or Ethereum is a bad idea.
1:47:42
I just wouldn't make it any substantial portion of my overall portfolio.
1:47:46
Like I wouldn't it wouldn't be 10% or something crazy, you know.
1:47:48
Why do you have less confidence in crypto than gold?
1:47:53
If I'm That's a leading question, but I'm just making an assumption here.
1:47:57
And that does not to imply that I am a super bull with crypto, but it seems like in some respects you are more confident in gold as a disaster hedge versus crypto.
1:48:11
Why Why would that be the case if it's true?
1:48:13
Well, I just It is true, and I believe that you have to look at what are the safe asset choices that institutional investors have direct access to.
1:48:27
And there is no easy way, you know, ETF to buy cryptocurrency. It's just not there yet.
1:48:35
And and I just um it's not to say that people won't turn to crypto and the prices won't, you know, 5x by the time this video is released.
1:48:43
Like, who knows, but I I just I know that the gold is so time tested that I just I feel it's it's it's a it's a proper it's a it's a it's a proper hedge, and I'm okay with with with having some portion of my portfolio being gold.
1:48:57
Now, do you view that as a hedge against hyperinflation, a hedge against general equity collapse?
1:49:02
What are you hedging with gold?
1:49:05
I would say a little bit of both, but mostly general general equity collapse.
1:49:09
general equity collapse. Like, just something I I'm hedging in that I believe if all Like, let's just say we have a vaccine that doesn't work and this turns into a three or four year process instead of a one year and change process jobs don't come back that's
1:49:29
going to be a pretty brutal place to play right like the markets I think at that point might start to sour it's very confusing why they haven't today but like you know in that case I would like a little more something a little more
1:49:42
something that's a little bit more concrete like having gold as part of a portfolio but that's that's just me everybody's different I have some friends that won't touch this the stuff so and then I have some friends that actually have bars in there like actual
1:49:53
physical gold bars which I'm sure you know some of those people as well I do yeah you probably have some no I don't I don't actually but I'm just like I'm like if it gets that bad where it's like Mad Max and marauders are you going to drive your [ __ ] dune buggy
1:50:08
with machine guns down to the 7-Eleven and like take a razor blade and shave off a sliver of gold to get your tampons it's like no you're not right like Tim's on the corner with like a little little hatchet like just like etching off some gold and like trading
1:50:21
it for some lentils if it gets that bad like you're going to have to use your gold as a weapon cuz it's not going to have any functional value but I mean who knows I mean it's God it just feeds every like not paranoid but sort of apocalyptic scenario planning compulsion that I have
1:50:40
which so I try to I try to not get wrapped up in it because it's so it's so seductive it's so seductive but cool well thanks for thanks for thanks for answering that I I think people should be prepared for a long haul right like it's it's I think
1:50:55
it's very dangerous to try to do any short-term trading and I actually heard an anecdote I'm not going to mention any names but one of the one of the best known hedge fund investors in the world who has an incredible incredible track record. I mean, the guy's his compounded
1:51:12
I mean, the guy's his compounded annual returns are just over decades is are just ludicrous and he came in, this is a couple weeks ago and basically like said to his team, he's like, "Guys, it's too [ __ ] hard.
1:51:25
Just like take a vacation.
1:51:25
We're not going to do We're not going to try to deal with this right now."
1:51:29
So, if that is happening in like one of the top shops in the world, I don't think it's a good idea for 99.
1:51:39
999% of people to do any short-term trading.
1:51:43
You're going to get eaten alive uh either by other traders who do this 24/7 or high-frequency folks, or you're just going to get murdered by the market, right?
1:51:55
As the saying goes, the market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent. Yeah.
1:51:59
Um it's it's crazy when you read these Reddits uh subreddits about, you know, these Robinhood traders that are using that app to leverage their positions.
1:52:09
And like these kids are going in there and just getting these crazy leverage positions on certain things.
1:52:13
I mean, they're driving up bankrupt companies like Hertz and all these to like new record highs and you're just like this is not we shouldn't be playing.
1:52:22
Don't don't play with this stuff.
1:52:23
Well, that one kid, that poor kid, I don't know, did you hear about what happened? I don't know.
1:52:28
There are a lot of poor kids these days.
1:52:29
Which one are you talking about?
1:52:31
This one got um So, you know, Robinhood, the app, it's a it's a fantastic trading app.
1:52:36
It's a great piece of software, but it allows people to opt into options trading and leverage trading like with like three clicks.
1:52:44
It's like super simple, right? to me. Oh, I know.
1:52:47
So, so these kids go in and this one kid put in I don't I I don't know what the dollar amount was, but he he he got on the wrong side of being leveraged and it saw he saw I mean, he didn't know these things were going to expire and he saw like a negative like I don't make him number, but it was something like a hundred thousand dollars negative account and he killed himself. Oh my god.
1:53:05
All over Robinhood and this and just a misunderstanding of what was going to happen in the end and just got so wrapped up doing it and it's I it's Playing with fire. Yeah, it is.
1:53:19
Honestly for me, you know, another reason why I'm just hitting pause on all this stuff is that you know, for me these days like the function of investing and that can be applied to time and energy but certainly capital is to increase your quality of life, right?
1:53:36
So if if if one agrees that that is let's just take that as the primary objective if you're making investments that cause you to lose sleep and chew your fingernails and have cortisol pour out your eyeballs, it's a bad investment.
1:53:53
Doesn't matter if it 2x's, 10x's, 100x's.
1:53:55
If for a protracted period of time it's going to have that psychological psycho-emotional effect on you, it's not a good investment and you know, I've learned that the hard way too, right?
1:54:06
I've chased returns certainly in the startup world and all this stuff and I was like this [ __ ] sucks.
1:54:11
Like this is not fun and even if you're good at it doesn't mean you should do it.
1:54:16
Like watch after this podcast comes out like venison futures are going to like shoot up and like He mentions venison is the future. Venison is the future. Maui Nui, get after it. Cool man.
1:54:28
Well, it's it's awesome to see you, brother and I miss miss hanging out and it's a bummer to not be able to spend time in person.
1:54:34
So hopefully we'll be able to do that before too long. Yeah, agreed dude. It's been been too long.
1:54:39
It was I'm actually really glad that you got to visit us just before this whole COVID thing happened, you know, it wasn't that many months before.
1:54:46
So it was good to see you then, but it's uh it's been it's it's tough. It's tough.
1:54:52
Stuck in the house all the it's hard with significant others too, you know, it's like you really realize what your relationship's made of.
1:54:56
But uh you get you get to see all the stuff. Yeah, exactly. And all your stuff.
1:55:04
I've got no shortage of my stuff.
1:55:06
You know, it's a daily project.
1:55:08
And anything else you want to say before we wrap up? No.
1:55:12
can find you, anything like that?
1:55:12
Yeah, I mean I'm not on social really these days.
1:55:16
I do tweet every once in a while at Kevin Rose.
1:55:18
But yeah, if you I would say one thing I I would like to mention is if people want to check out that Zen interview I did on my podcast with Henry.
1:55:27
I thought it was quite good.
1:55:27
It was like you know, and I'm sure you Tim you get like this too.
1:55:31
You probably obviously don't say it publicly, but you record episodes and you're like episode was just okay, you know, it's like Yeah, yeah, yeah.
1:55:37
sometimes you're like Yeah, every once in a while you get one of those, yeah.
1:55:39
Yeah, so this one I was like, wow, I actually I think I did a pretty decent job with this one.
1:55:44
So I was I was pretty proud of it.
1:55:45
So I think people will enjoy this one with with with Henry Shekman.
1:55:50
And you can find that at podcast. kevinrose. com. Sweet.
1:55:53
And for me uh really loved doing the Hugh Jackman interview.
1:56:02
have been huge for you, dude. it was amazing.
1:56:04
Yeah, it was just a dream come true.
1:56:05
I mean he's been on the wish list forever and he just was so game.
1:56:09
So so if you want to check that out, I think it's just Tim Ferriss list of Hugh.
1:56:13
I got to listen to it cuz Darya was like, did you hear that Tim interviewed Hugh Jackman?
1:56:16
I'm like Oh, you'd love it.
1:56:20
He must have been [ __ ] himself.
1:56:20
Like that's like your dream episode. Yeah. I was super nervous. Uh it was great. It was great.
1:56:27
So you know, Did you ask him about his training and stuff? I did, yeah.
1:56:31
Oh, I knew you would have, yeah.
1:56:33
Doing Wolverine and everything.
1:56:35
like, if you could only choose one exercise, what would it be and why and what would the protocol be?
1:56:38
He he gave he really gave the details and got into specifics. Oh, that's exciting. That's awesome.
1:56:46
So that one I'd recommend people check out.
1:56:47
If you just search my name and Hugh Jackman or go to the your podcast app of choice.
1:56:51
And then also I'd say one thing that I am still doing that I'm still really enjoying is Five Bullet Friday, which is the newsletter that goes out to between 1 and 2 million people every Friday. It's free.
1:57:01
It's just five bullets of the five coolest things that I've come across that week or that I'm thinking about using, experimenting with, pondering.
1:57:07
And you can find that at tim. blog/friday. And uh Sweet. That's it for me, man.
1:57:14
But uh give a give a hug to the fam for me. Miss you guys.
1:57:18
Yeah, miss you guys, too.
1:57:20
And uh yeah, let your dog go pee. Yeah. All right.
1:57:24
Molly Molly thanks us for getting off. All right. And All right, brother. All right. See you soon.