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[Music] we're live welcome to technology Brothers the most profitable podcast in the world uh today that was awkward today we are talking about hopefully we can get that edited yeah yeah yeah edit that out um uh today we are talking
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about a sternly worded letter that was sent from Elizabeth Warren to none other than Sam Alman um it came on uh a beautiful beautiful stationary uh from the United States Senate Washington DC this broke uh just today January 17th uh addressed to Sam mman and it reads the
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following Dear Mr Alman in the two months since the election big tech companies including open AI have made million-dollar gifts to president-elect Donald Trump's inaugural Fund in what appears to be an effort to influence and sway the actions and policies of the
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incoming Administration specifically on December 13th 2024 reporting confirmed your intention to personally donate $1 million to to the inaugural fund so what's weird about this is that they're making it out to be like oh million dollars is so much but like that's not
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even enough to buy a single coning sck yeah and yet it's like oh a million bucks it's like and Sam Sam wouldn't D Sam wouldn't daily a car for less than a million dollar way so think about however much your daily driver costs that's the kind of political donation
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that we're talking about this is the change that you find in the seats of the coning site yeah this is not this is not real real sway yeah so what's what's insane about what's insane about this is uh I mean Elizabeth Warren always uh for my experience uh likes to likes to kind
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of play dumb right like she's clearly an intelligent woman and she's clearly very shrewd politically and she likes to come out and make these like very uh emotional sort of um uh statements and demands while clearly just ignoring all the facts and
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so the facts you know the reality is why do people make political donations it is to influence politicians yeah right like why it's not just out of uh nobody you know people uh don't don't make million dooll donations to uh you know just just purely for fun
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right for it's interesting because it's it's like this is this is breaking news because it's targeting open Ai and Sam Alman and AI is this topic and job it's interesting like how quickly the Dems have turned on Altman who I believe was
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historically generally Pro he was I think he almost ran for governor of California's Democrat and I know he's donated before um and yeah this is just like part of like the vibe shift that this time around in Trump 2.0 people are much less sounding the alarm Bells
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around like this is like the worst thing ever and so uh it actually goes into this in the letter big tech companies have come under increased scrutiny from federal Regulators for antitrust violations violations of privacy and harms to workers consumers and
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competition which is going to go out the window to some degree like with oh the antitrust yeah the antitrust potential um and so yeah if you're Pro antitrust I guess you're upset that big Tech is coing up to the new Trump Administration although some of the Trump appointees
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have been somewhat Pro antitrust in the sense that uh if they're constituents are you know like small business owners they might actually want to break blocks at Japanese steel company from acquiring yeah yeah yeah that and then uh so yeah
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antitrust is a is a lever is a like a a hammer that can be used in multiple ways and what's interesting is that um back when the antitrust against big Tech started and there was a push against Google and then Amazon very early on um Elizabeth Warren was one of the most
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outspoken voices but Josh Holly was also one of theit most outspoken voices and it was this weird moment where Josh Holly explain to Josh Hol is Josh Holly is a I believe a senator might be a congressman I'm pretty sure he was a Senator and he uh is is a Republican and
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was like Loosely in the teal Universe through JD it was kind of like people were thinking that like there might be like a tech Squad like uh Rashida Talib and AOC uh and ilhan Omar there might be that if if if they got JD and um and um who else uh Arizona guy L Master
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Lake Masters and also Josh Holly in you'd have like you have a little bit of like strength in numbers because those three guys collectively had the same sort of philosophy around Tech but not uh the same Puppet Master but but but but but and and and
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and they they could kind of break from the mainstream ideology of the Republican party and and so uh Elizabeth Warren goes on to say we are concerned that your company and other big Tech donors are using your massive contributions again not that massive um
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to the inaugural fund to Cozy up to the incoming Administration in an effort to avoid scrutiny limit regulation and buy favor you have clear and direct interest in obtaining favors from the incoming Administration your company and mother many other big tech company donors are
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already subject to ongoing Federal investigations and Regulatory actions for example Amazon which donated a million dollars to Trump inaugural fund is the subject of multiple ongoing regulatory actions including multiple FTC suits related to anti-consumer and
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anti-competitive practices a doj investigation into fraudulent schemes to obtain obtain credit and over 300 open National Labor Relations Board nlrb cases alleging unfair labor practices Apple CEO Tim Cook donated $1 million to Trump's fund while apple is the subject
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of a doj antitrust suit as well as 20 NL nlrb cases um um Google which donated 1 million was found by federal court to have an illegal Monopoly over the online search Market meta donated a million dollars and is the subject of an ongoing
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CFB PB into the improper use of financial data and an FTC antitrust suit for monopolistic practices mon Microsoft donated a million and is subject of multiple open investigations fun the funny thing here is that Elizabeth Warren has like taken more money from
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like big Finance than like any politician in history like she is truly the most toxic politician of all time um and uh we don't we don't talk talk politics ever yeah but if but if I were to to you know sort of um extrapolate on Elizabeth waren I wouldn't have a lot of
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uh my mother once told me if you don't have anything nice to say don't say anything at all and I don't have a single words this is funny because it's like listing off like you know every big tech company donated and every big tech company is like under uh significant
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pressure from the government but there's a flip that you can flip this around and be like and be like well we're suing every single tech company like why aren't they donating to us yeah uh yeah maybe maybe maybe they're kind of it's not like it's not like all
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these donations were made and then all the lawsuits started yeah it's like clearly the company was like well we had to spend 500 million on legal bills last year like maybe we should we spend one million maybe we should spend it's crazy
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because Elizabeth Warren's Robin Hood fluctuates millions of dollars every hour with with the with the uh you know she's she's you know prominent uh investor herself and so is that true at all I thought it was all Nancy Pelosi was the I think I think they track I
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think they track Warren's doing well too okay um well she closed out the letter saying by by like to be clear yeah she it it's it's just so disingenuous to come after somebody for making political donations when she has been the beneficiary of big business for her
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entire career yep uh it is critical that Federal Regulators continue to evenly handed even-handedly apply competition consumer protection anti-discrimination laws and any other rule of law that applies to your company but the industry's efforts suggest the big tech
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companies are trying to Curry favor and Skirt the Rules this would be good for billionaire Tech Executives but is bad for America if left uncheck big Tech monopolies will threaten consumers rights run rough shot over workers and squash competition while stifling
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Innovation these donations rais the question about corruption and the influence of corporate money on the Trump Administration and Congress and the public deserve answers therefore we ask that you provide responses by January 31st 2025 and the question here
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is when uh when and under what circumstances did your company decide to make these contributions to the Trump inaugural fund um and there's a couple other questions but uh very interesting I think uh there I mean obviously like you know we're joking around but there
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is something to you know antitrust laws exist for a reason uh the true extractive monopolies do destroy uh shareholder value and economic value uh and there are good reasons for many of the laws that are in place the question is just like is this a has this been
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like a pattern of abuse the the the the the toughest thing about the tech monopolies is that um you can look at a you know the Google search Monopoly and which is very clearly true but previously like the the the Sherman Antitrust Act was defined as consumer
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harm so it needs to be two steps one you have a monopoly which can be quantitatively measured by the hhi are you familiar with this the uh hman herfeld index something like that uh the h is a mathematical calculation for uh economic concentration in a particular
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industry so you basically take the the market size and you and you of each company you square them or some something like that and so you get so with search Market it's extremely high because Google has like 90% it's very obvious but that's not enough to just
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say hey there's only one company in there we got to break him into two because sometimes a certain industry just might only have one player yeah the question is are they abusing that Monopoly power to raise prices on customers yeah and with Google it's hard
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to argue because you free product free product you can get a lot of value from the Google ecosystem and then on the back end the their real customer where they get the money from are the ads buyers and of course ads buyers can move to other platforms they can easily move
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over maybe so I looked it up and it's an auction so so so they're very it's very hard for Google to to supply demand yeah to to artificially raise prices of their app so I so I looked it up and and here's I figured it out so dat I looked
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at the so we looked at the data we've been preparing a TED Talk uh by looking at the data so I looked at the data Elizabeth Warren loves mutual funds she's you know an active investor in in some of these funds and I think some of the frustration from this letter might
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actually be that through all those funds she's a you know she herself has a lot of her net worth in some of these big tech companies and she might be angry as a indirect shareholder that that money is being spent on her political opponents when it could be profit for
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her right so she's like maybe it's more of like this long con of if you keep that money in the business distribute it out do some BuyBacks my assets are going to go up because she's a she's a s sentim millionaire um really yeah they they've no yeah not sem sorry uh so she
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she has some some somewhere between she has 10 plus million dollars of like known assets sure she's taking some you know H we're just like I I I just feel I just feel like uh she's trying to slander Tech I'm going to slander her little let
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let it let it rip a little bit no but I think I think it's just this frustration of saying I you know her being like I want that to be I want that money to be going to BuyBacks to help my bags instead of helping my political buts
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yeah yeah yeah she feels some sort of entitlement to some of that you know well it it is funny because like you you look at the antitrust stuff against Google and one of the first person one of the first people to kind of like argue that Google had become this like
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lethargic Monopoly it was Peter teal of course yeah with this idea that that famous debate between him and Eric Schmid uh talking about um Google has something it was like 50 billion at the time now it's like maybe 150 billion of cash reserves
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and they have all this money and they don't innovate and they don't actually deploy it and it and it's a testament that they're out of ideas they don't have a place to go sync that money to get a return and and so even though and this was like all St Theory just arguing
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that uh you know you need to look no further than Google with best Engineers the the the the the most agentic Founders at the helm like you have this incredible yeah Google could have done starlink they could have done so many different things they could have done so
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many different and they had all the resources and they couldn't justify any of those Investments yeah the one the one thing that's interesting with with Warren is when you look at a lot of these senators and politicians that are just really annoying right like the sort
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of boomer generation they clear really need to move on they're sort of holding progress back in a bunch of different ways the the unfortunate thing is El Elizabeth Warren is quite quite annoying to me is uh but good for her is she has like a lot of vigor like she seems a lot
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healthier than sort of some of these other even on the Republican side some these guys that are just like what's the guy's name who's constantly just like um Mitch McConnell Mitch McConnell poor guy like he clearly like his staff is just
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sort of like shepherding him around like he be in a r you know retirement home yeah uh just sort of like MPC out on um you know interview like on National Television just being like yeah I would I mean I would you look back to the
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founding fathers and you read their ages and it's like oh yeah they had like a cracked 18-year-old rating like the Constitution for them like with the quills the oldest dudes like oh yeah they like 28y old guy working on this it would be so all we want is the average
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out so amazing flip it instead of 35 plus it's 35 or under and we had vac but vac has been silent the has been put the maybe the is prepping for the cage maybe he's like he wants to go founder mode again he's like politics I've had enough I want to show all these jocks like how
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to how to build a billion dollars of Enterprise Value in 90 days pmf or die I really just want a a president who's you know 19 years old chugs Red Bulls in Celsius all night and he's just like yeah peace in them isn't there minimum yeah yeah 30 35 is
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the minimum age but I think it should be the maximum age we need gamer president something he's going to just grind with the boys yeah we need we need a president who who insists that the White House Press Secretary does the the brain
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rot like what is it called what are those yeah what are the videos called where like they have like we need the Subway Surfer the Subway Surfer videos where it's like the the person talking and then some like car like racing yeah I would just love I would just love ous
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president someone who can who can get on night yeah the the press secretary is is doing the like Tik Tok streaming like you know Midway they're like all right so uh you know the president has made it clear that you know and they're like ice cream so good ice
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cream it's great uh well let's move on to our our real top story today tick Tok and before we jump we're going to talk about Tik Tok today but um I'd like to help our audience get a little bit more empathy with the story and so I'd like to uh just teach them a quick word of of
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of of Mandarin that they can use throughout their day which is p which means beer so if you want to if you're trying to find Common Ground uh between you know you and somebody uh I doubt any of our listeners are on red note but if you go on red note just comment on a
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bunch of posts w hunian p which means I really enjoy beer and that will find like sort of some common ground because again the the Chinese people are not the enemy it's the CCP the enemy so exactly it's important to um you know clarify
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that yeah so uh let's start with just setting the the table a little bit with this article from the information kind of giving an overview of the current status so uh Tik Tok prepares for an immediate shut off of in the US on Sunday so they're going to shut down the
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app Tik Tok plans to shut off it shut off its app for us users on Sunday a the day federal law will ban the app unless the Supreme Court interfin to block the ban and we have an update there the Supreme Court ruled uh unanimously to uphold the ban so yeah I think we need
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nine nine siiz dong bangs for nine Supreme Court Justices sounds great is that nine it's close enough close enough Bravo to the Supreme Court that's uh uh they they do get it right over there yeah but should we take a moment of silence for the the B
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shareholders the Jeff SES okay and Jeff y okay who what what AD should we run Bose again uh okay moment of silence for everyone who lost money on Tik Tok this moment of silence is brought to you by David protein the highest concentration of protein per calorie of
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any bar in the market okay back to the show uh so under the plan people attempting to open the Tik Tok app will instead see a pop-up message directing them to a website with information about the ban one of the people said Tik Tok plans to give users the option to
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download all their data so they can take a record of their personal information with them under a law passed last year Tik Tok will be banned on January 19th in the United States unless it has cut ties with its Chinese parent bite dance
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so that was the sale uh proposal Tik Tok has appealed to the Supreme Court to overturn the law on First Amendment grounds and is awaiting a decision but questions from Supreme Court Justice at Oral arguments of the case last Friday suggested the court would likely uphold
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the law which they did the law doesn't require T Tik Tok to turn off the App instead the law requires App Store operators like Apple and Google to stop making Tik Tok available for downloads it also requires Oracle Tik tok's cloud provider to stop hosting the app's us
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data uh user data uh and that's project Texas which we'll talk about later um the app had expected had been expected to continue operating past the band date for people who already had downloaded it because if you already downloaded it you
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don't need it from the store until software updates by Apple or Google start to cause problems in that scenario the immediate impact of the band would be limited to preventing new users from downloading the app proactively turning off the app though in contrast ensures
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that all of Tik tok's users will be affected immediately Tik Tok plans to help explain comments by a lawyer representing Tik Tok nol Francisco at the supreme court hearing on Friday when he said the app would go dark if the court didn't intervene in an email to
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Tik Tok employees reported by The Verge the company said it was planning for various scenarios your employment pay and benefits are secure and our offices will remain open even if this situation hasn't been resolved before the January 19th deadline as the date of the ban
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approaches speculation is increasing about TCP is so generous yeah I'm glad that they care about their employees even in the midst of all this turmoil it's great uh what adds to the uncertainty is that Donald Trump will be inaugurated for his second term as president on
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Monday a day after the ban is due to go into effect Trump said that he opposes a ban partly because he doesn't want to see a strengthening of Instagram owner meta platforms he may be more inclined than the current Administration to take
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action to help restore Tik Tok if users start to complain and and Trump has also actually done quite well on Tik Tok um and uh and then also Jeff yass from sasana was a big Trump donor early on and so there were a lot of questions about where Trump would land on a Tik
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Tok ban um but uh we we talked to we like I guess go into the rest because there's going to be we'll give some backstory on Tik Tok but um we're also going to be dunking on Tik Tok quite a lot um but we're not heartless there are are going to be people that are affected
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by this uh I there there's the Zoomers obviously who are just you know wildly addicted to the app and their argument is that Tik Tok is better in many ways than reals still like it has better search they say it has better discoverability uh there are also
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businesses that run their businesses on Tik Tok um and for those people I basically think at this point they've had like a year pass of warning that like this is like going away Shaky Ground and could go away and so I think for those people um the people running
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like Tik Tock shop agencies are going to not you know they're going to be like bummed out but again they can just pivot to focusing on these other yeah channels I do think it was it was great for commercial activity probably better than some of these other platforms yeah
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they did have a lot of Technical Innovations most of them have been ported over already like I think even uh on on YouTube you can have pinned products but it's usually just for Merch it was us like a Teespring like a shirt integration but
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now you can actually pull in products from any Shopify store because they' deepen that integration and I'm sure meta will do the same so and then the actual like creators that have built million plus you know anywhere from um uh the that sucks like getting it
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taken away but I think that the uh if you were taking content creation as a you know profession you should understand that you need to be everywhere you can't be reliant on a single platform if x was getting banned right now we would be uh we would be in
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shambles the lights would all be off we'd be drinking yeah we' probably just be like you know trying so so I do understand why people are like almost traumatized by this whole thing but I but it's still necessary right it's like it's it feels like telling like your kid
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who's having a tantrum like it's going to be like you know they're they're you know anybody who has like a two-year-old understands like a kid can have a tantrum but then time just passes and they like bounce back I do have a little bit of a promoted post call to action if
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you have created on Tik Tok if you've solved the algorithm if you've gone Mega viral if you're Tik Tok editor Tik Tok creator and you're looking for your next thing please contact us we're trying to do more on YouTube shorts and more on
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Instagram reels and so we'd love to talk to you about helping us on content strategy editing uh promotion anything that we can do to get the show more viral and do more Clips we do a lot of horizontal Clips on X right now but we definitely want to get on the vertical
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Clips as well we have some ideas that we're testing out but um the more support we have the better so uh with that we we we wanted to give you the full history of Tik Tok go through the the story it's over a decade old at this point almost I guess uh 2015
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musically uh started so let's go through uh the history of Tik Tok and then we'll break down some of the analysis about what's going on in the band it's and it's uh I mean there's so much good stuff here I'll hold this joke for a second because uh uh it's it's you know
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you you'll see it in a second so why don't you start with first the first bullet point that we have Alex 2012 2012 over a decade ago he was working as a UI designer at sap and you know why I like this is because sap is our sworn enemy oh really as as
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smart business owners that run on ramp yeah many many of these big companies you know have these complex Integrations on sap they're wasting you know quite a lot of time and and you know you know really sort of um ruining the lives of their employees by forcing them to use
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this sort of Legacy software ands gun situation yeah it makes sense it makes sense that uh Tik Tok which is um uh you know our enemy social media company was started by a guy who worked for our enemy Finance automation interesting yeah had put that together uh so he's in
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his mid- 30s working as a UI designer at sap uh he gets this extremely fake job the in-house futurist focused on the future of Education he's working on massively online open courseware which is actually very cool um with and there's companies like corsera and
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Udacity that were launching around this time um he realized that video lectures were too long and hard to engage with for most people you got to go blame brain rot this was so he starts s sakata education with ls Yang focusing on short
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form educational videos and that was the last time anyone learned any anything from Tik Tok um but of course that business fails so they pivot it to what becomes musically uh he's on the train I think he was going from he was riding the Cal train from Silicon Valley to SF
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he was commuting to his job and he sees these kids using their phones to create selfie videos with music and overlays basically lip sync videos and they decide to create an app that focuses on making that super easy and so this was just to contextualize it when I first
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saw musically videos like being reposted to other platforms it was the first time I felt old on the internet because I was like why are these kids yep like why are these people dancing and lipsyncing yep but it it weirdly for me I really started noticing it
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around I feel like at this point maybe may maybe I just really noticed it late but it it felt like I started to really pay attention to it in 2020 yep when it made sense where I was like okay nobody can leave their house and go dance or go
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to the bar or anything like teenagers can't go to House Parties they can't go to football games because of Co okay it actually makes sense that they want to just dance and like it's more efficient to Just Dance online than it is to like go and you know try to get attention in
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in some other setting so and I mean like for a while for a while it was very cringe for people to go on musically do it and people would do it sort of ironically and then the app and then I even remember the first time uh I downloaded I don't know if I downloaded
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musically or Tik Tok but my first impression with Tik Tok was like I opened the app and it served me a highly relevant video and it probably was just fate or Locker chance but I was like I was impressed I was like and then the outra really was like incredible yeah
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and and still still and there was there was I heard I heard I I have no idea if this is true um but fortunately we're not journalists so um we don't have to get the facts right all the time but um uh I heard that that their algorithm
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which was so was was Sim was kind of like a scale AI Sweatshop model where there was I the the rumor was like imagine just warehouses and warehouses in China where people are just sitting there being like you know is this is this funny like is this a dog like
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classifying the videos like very manually um and I'm sure it got more and more automated over time but it's the kind of thing China can do where they're like oh we want the best algorithm let's put 200,000 people on it and they're just kind of like clicking buttons all I
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mean that's very real for the for the censorship of the Chinese internet like they were able to just throw millions and millions of people at it yeah and now ai is kind of caught up and they can censor a lot of stuff automatically and
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for me the interesting thing here is is uh I studied abroad in in in Shanghai in uh 2016 yeah and it uh oh you were one of those guys like Trump wins and you gota leave the country it was actually very weird because I was watching watching I was
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there in the fall yeah and so all of the chaos and terminal uh turmoil of the election I was watching unfold online while in in China but then from a from a tech from a technology standpoint I mean a lot of you know most of the people in China would use vpns to use Instagram
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and Google products and stuff like that um but uh so this was already happening like Chinese China had banned all of these Western apps entirely you could still get around it and so I never understood from the very beginning why we would allow China you know China uh
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has done some the thing is that it wasn't a Chinese app to begin with it was just an app made by a Chinese dude who yes but the thing but the thing that the thing that the bike dance deal happen much later yeah yeah yeah but but um the honest truth is that anyone who
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is Chinese the government expects them to act on behalf of the state it is an expectation maybe I think it's different I think it's different if somebody is like renounce as their citizenship is here uh but but uh China from my experience on the ground
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everyone has H feels an obligation to serve the state in some way or another yeah I mean it kind of happened in World War II there was like the uh like all the German dudes who lived in America like Germany was like come back and fight for us yeah and people went yeah
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but it's or or if you're going to stay you're going to share information back and basically act as you know um amateur Espionage but you can think of Alex XU as kind of like the Chinese Nikita beer the sense that he like he was like a growth hack Master at the time
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poster I don't know about that but all but I mean the the the growth hacks that they used to grow musically were really genius so one of the first ones was um there's an API on the iPhone for the iTunes store where you can pull in music
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previews and you don't have to pay any licensing fees for those because they're just 15sec clips and so you could have access to the entire iTunes music library every single song for free without needing to actually go to you know yeah that was my impression too I
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was like how do they have Instagram at the time had no music on the platform and so if you wanted to add music you would have to like download the video download this like steal the song by downloading it and then put it together up it was really harda would have to
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like yeah and then they take it down because it was like oh you don't have the rights that but but they figured out that they could that they could pull that in eventually they did the deals to actually get the money to the record labels um but that that was a huge huge
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uh growth hack and they also did this thing where they' they'd uh Watermark the videos with musically and so when you downloaded the video and shared it on a different platform it would have that watermark in there kind of like the steak.com thing yeah uh and so that
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drove a whole bunch of viral growth because you're like oh I'm seeing this thing yeah yeah that was super smart really really smart and so the app launched in China Japan Europe and the US with the US audience picking it up globally uh qu show the Chinese app
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started in 2011 as a gift maker tool but later transformed into a short form video platform so around this time basically everyone who's doing content social media is realizing two things like short form video is the future and and we're shifting from The Social
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Network ranking what's in your uh one degree of separation like what are your friends posting to just raw entertainment what is the best content across the entire platform regardless of whether you follow that person or it's a huge account or a small account and
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that's why when if you set up for a long time if you set up a new Tik Tok account you could post literally anything and you get 500 views immediately yeah with no followers well and they also so and and uh near on a posted something that's
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like we actually created the metaverse but it's it's in the form of short form content y uh one other thing with Tik Tok that they they did well is very clearly they were using Bots early on to drive engagement Drive views and and many many creators would would basically
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knew that a lot of their you would you could go on Tik Tok and get a ton of followers and Views quick and it was clear that they were just artificially inflating those numbers but there was enough real people actually tuning in that it didn't matter right
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yep yeah and so uh during this time they they they get the musically app up uh it launched as a as a broad short form video platform in 2014 this is all yeah this is and they did a ton of like app store uh optimization and keyword
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stuffing in the title I think it said like musically like lip sync battle and then uh on Thursday nights the downloads would spike because there was a lip sync battle TV show which was like National like prime time TV and that had initiated from this Jimmy Fallon like
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they had a segment on the Jimmy Fallon show called lips uh Koke and lip sync battles and so that turned into its own TV show people would see that go to the App Store and search even though I don't think they had a legitimate deal they were just kind of like keyword hijacking
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that that's cool um so yeah very smart there uh they gain visibility through the App Store lips and this is also there's this transition happening from social media which is suddenly my my friends are more entertaining than Jimmy Fallon yep to uh my friends are
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entertaining but random strangers online are actually more entertaining and this was happening this was already happening with the Kardashians like well it's much more interesting to follow what Kylie Jenner is doing because she's like dating rappers having babies than than
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some random person from your hometown who just had like an super early pregnancy um so in 2015 musically focuses like they find the product Market fit uh around lip sync videos they change the onboarding flow to as soon as you download the app it's like
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let's make your first lipy sync video it's not just like a blank canvas pick a song Let's lip sync to it um and musical artists actually start flipping the model and growing on TiK ToK by promoting their music in Oldtown Road was the first example by little NX yeah
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and then at this time it became suddenly every artist you could blow up over it was what was cool here is American you know any artist globally could become a star overnight by having the right song yep the other thing that was interesting
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about the change to algo feeds is it became uh much harder for these creators to monetize totally because if you run you could run an ad uh let's say you have like a million followers on Tik Tok if you're putting up a li lip syncing video or dancing video you'll get a lot
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of views but then if you're like this video is presented by uh Proctor and Gamble like Proctor and Gamble makes a bunch of great soaps everybody say you know I got that you know 500 views you just won't get VI as opposed to if you look at you know a podcaster who has an
35:50
RSS feed and someone listens to every single episode well the downloads are not we talked to David C about this like his downloads might fluctuate by like 10% episode to episode but it's always in the same band whereas you're in algo feed like a Tik tocker you could you you
36:08
could fluctuate by two orders of magnitude easily easily yeah and you have you know podcasts allow you to do things like uh Ricky Bobby and Talladega kns where he sold the windshield and it's harder to sell the windshield on Tik Tok yeah yeah it's
36:22
very hard to make the integrated content even if you're doing stuff in the background I ignore the as an Advertiser CU I was doing a ton of stuff on YouTube at the time and I just didn't we never did it uh mostly because it was a very
36:33
young audience and we don't want to advertise nicotine to kids so we we stayed away from it but um but I I don't know that there was ever like really good money there I think for like very specific products it could work yeah it was the big it was the massive what what
36:44
are those uh the demilio they would get like a shoe deal or something like that and and there was way to do to do like product placement if it's a very visual product can actually explained in under 60 seconds like it needs to be very precise this time Snapchat was also they
36:59
launched their whole Creator fund and they were paying out like a million dollars a day which was cool to see that money um going to someone other than just uh the team the executive well I mean that's a great bridge to uh have you have you listen to the I think it's
37:14
light speed or something what alexu did a a talk about how he sees building a social network and it's seen as like one of the defining moments in like social network thought leadership essentially and he he Compares building a social
37:29
network to founding a country initially creators are attracted to the platform with a promise of Fame and potential wealth creation the first step is to centralize the economy sounds familiar and ensure initial talented creators succeed uh they start paying content
37:44
creators and connecting them with advertisers the second step is to decentralize and create opportunities for new creators algorithmic feeds enables newcomers to be discovered and succeed on the platform and so he had this whole idea of of Social and
37:56
economic Mobility within the platform and the viability of a middle class on Tik Tok is crucial for the platform success and so and yeah the idea is like you need this like when you switch to the algo feed it is not enough just to get likes from like your friends you
38:11
need professional content creators and so you have to be able to come on and discover okay this person has massive Talent let's get them to a million followers and let's make sure that the that the Creator fund is Flowing to them very quickly so that they're
38:23
incentivized to make this their time job yeah and and to be clear as much as we uh are dunking on have have dunked on Tik Tok I've posted about it I'm sure you have salana has posted for years about it uh everything that Alex did with this app is genius and the story is
38:40
actually amazing and the app is fundamentally although there's a lot of brain rot it's fundamentally like a a very cool app it's just that it's not appropriate for uh over time through the bright dance deal it's clear that it turned
38:56
into an an influence Channel and it's not even to be honest it's not even about the fact that Tik Tok is putting a you know a CCP camera in the pocket of every American the issue is more of uh going back to this analogy which we've talked about before it's it's you
39:15
wouldn't have wanted uh you know during uh the Cold War to have Russia own the New York Times right and every single day it's it's sort of elevating content that's Pro Russ you know and and and over time this stuff was proven that people on Tik Tok had much more positive opinions of China
39:35
they would stop any content associated with the Wagers which is a genocide that that Chinese government has carried out um and so all the stuff is is it's not a conspiracy there's enough there's a body of proof that Tik Tok it became a very strategic
39:54
asset the most it's a it's digal psychological warfare yep and and just pulling the levers on what are we censoring what are we amplifying does have like an incredible impact on the the viewership which is like 100 million Americans it's crazy um and so in 2016
40:13
musically had 10 million daily active users and over 90 million users in total up from 10 million the previous year um and in 2016 Facebook and Mark Zuckerberg were trying to enter the Chinese market Zuck invites the co-founder of musically
40:29
alexu to poent to discuss a potential acquisition I think they go for this walk in the Silicon Valley Highlands and and they're discussing this despite being a Chinese app musically had a significant presence in the US with a team in Santa Monica and a perception of
40:44
being an American social media app um in 2017 they decided to launch and grow in China having initially focused on the west and uh Chinese business model for social app the Chinese business model typically Rel I on Direct monetization
40:58
such as Vis virtual Goods gifting and tipping rather than advertising ice cream so good yeah content companies in China need to work closely with the CCP ensuring their content upholds the party's laws and wishes a different we really need to go live so
41:14
we can do this stop it stop it um uh and thank you for the banana Ben yeah and so uh in the late of 2017 bite dance which is already pretty huge they launched Dyan Tik tok's Chinese version after to be the one the really the one that got away because imagine if Zach
41:36
had another app with 100 million Americans just this perfect ad platform of that has this amazing social graph that has this amazing uh you know gra interest graph duck would be doing this is the F side stuff this is the flip side of the Elizabeth Warren stuff of
41:54
like yeah uh it like you know uh Zuck might have a bit of a monopoly over social networking but uh if if he' had a little bit looser Reign during this time he could have acquired Tik Tok and we wouldn't be in this mess of a situation well it it's even I mean the
42:10
deal fell fell through for unknown reasons and it's totally possible that that that Alex wanted to do the deal and there were certain players I don't think it was actually the American FTC that blocked the deal no it's much more likely chines NTC yeah yeah who said no
42:29
you can't sell this to the Americans because it would have just turned into imagine the number of wi the Pooh memes on the day of the acquisition it would have been a nightmare nightmare yeah uh and so bite dance had launched D Yan Chinese Tik
42:43
toks version and so uh musicly is facing like competition because they want to glow grow internationally but now they're getting pressure from bite dance so bite dance kind of has like a carrot and stick situation going on hey we could buy your company pay you a bunch
42:56
of money or we can compete with you internationally and close off this International Market you know that Zuck is going to come for you with reals Snapchat's doing stuff like you're GNA face a lot of pressure maybe the time to get out is now um and So eventually uh
43:11
Duan has launched as Tik Tok in the US because they they they do the uh they do the acquisition towards the end uh by Dan launches Tik Tok internationally as a shot across the bow against musically musically is struggling to enter the
43:24
Chinese market and they enter uh and they entertain acquisition talks from two other Chinese companies um 10cent is a big investor and acquirer of content around the world while bite dance has never taken an investment from 10cent Alibaba or BYU um and uh 10 cents should
43:39
have gotten Tik Tok because that that would have been on brand for them um but they uh but they kind of missed it like missed this and so um the acquisition goes through for between $ 800 million and a billion dollars which feels low
43:53
now honestly I mean it's like a hundred billion dollar company uh but maybe worth nothing now we'll see although they probably made well over a billion dollars in free cash FL the other thing is is I don't bite dance has been a pretty liquid stock secondary
44:08
Market I don't feel that bad for anybody who is any American that was in I disagree with that I I I think that even though it's like a liquid stock it's actually very hard to repatriate dollars that are in China I think if you have like a multi-billion dollar position it
44:24
is very difficult to get out and get that totally I'm about the you know let's say you're a family officer $5 million B dance you could have gotten out of that position yeah but for the big for the big shareholders there was actually a proposal at one point for
44:38
like a one-time repatriation of of American money that's stuck in China and and just kind of do some sort of trade deal that says like Hey we're gonna like decouple a little bit and we're gonna let this happen and everyone's gonna and
44:51
we're going to figure out what the the terms of that trade are to get that done um but uh you know it's been you know hugely successful users spend an average of 52 minutes a day on the app which is significantly higher than any other social network uh and then people start
45:08
worrying about Tik tok's influence I'm on 68 and do you remember when they um you remember when they they combined the apps and there was just Tik Tok and then Tik Tok was the number one Advertiser on meta well they didn't they didn't combine the apps that's what's
45:23
interesting what they did was they actually released a new app and then they Grove downloads from one to the next kind of good version of they did they did they not allow you to Port your followers yeah I think you could log in and port and they and they like they
45:37
duped the backend database and created a new and combined app putting in the App Store T remember remember when meta was like basically yeah they it made sense for them to take because it was billions of dollars being spent I think I think they
45:50
advertised on Snapchat even more which is really should but all and that that was that sort of Catch 22 where you're just kind of yeah you want the money but you know you're also forking over your users to a different app it's rough um and so uh Tik Tok is a Huawei sized
46:07
problem and a potential national security threat to the us as US military personnel use Tik Tok and Tik Tok is gathering their location data their facial data and their biometric data uh the the data for the version Tik Tok in Western countries is stored in the US
46:21
but legally it is owned by bite Dan which may be forced to give the data to the Chinese government if requested uh there are concerns about whether Tik Tok censors posts about the Hong Kong protest and US politicians are calling for the committee on foreign investment
46:34
in the US to review Tik Tok and this was like the huge Miss cfus is supposed to review every uh International acquisition of American company and they uh and uh they they got the Tik Tok call wrong because they're just like a some like dumb like lipsyncing app like who
46:50
cares like this isn't this isn't us steel you know this isn't like some weapons manufacturer but in fact it was an incredibly important uh company and so Facebook attempted to buy musically in 20 in 2016 and then they launched their own Tik Tok competitor lasso in
47:06
2018 that I think flopped but then eventually they figured it out with reals so in October of 2019 I remember I never I don't think I ever really used it but I probably demoed it for a little bit that's the thing Zuck is not zuck's
47:20
not afraid to to fail yeah which is cool so in October of 2019 Zuck gives a spee Georgetown calling out Chinese owned social media specifically Tik Tok is a national security threat and a threat to Western values and ways of life cus review was opened on the musically
47:36
acquisition in 2019 potentially leading to a reversal of the acquisition um but it was not Zach bur that's that the um what's the right analogy for Zuck you know screaming that Tik Tok is a national security threat there's so many there's so many good ones I mean just yeah just
47:57
coming out and uh it's always good when you can say that your number one competitor and threat to your your business model is a national security threat yeah we should say uh all-in podcast is a national security threat I think people have said that um
48:15
that's true is actually true um yeah so uh I mean a lot of a lot of seismic shifts in the social media landscape because of Tik Tok huge shift to uh algorithmic feeds and and just viewing it as like a it's almost like a Netflix Style app and they really
48:35
basically forced every other platform I don't know about Snapchat since I haven't used it in years but they forced pretty much every platform to switch to more of even even YouTube is always algorithmically driven but you could still like show up on your homepage and
48:50
see like the videos you subscribed to and that was a huge deal when they flipped on that on YouTube uh yeah the default feed used to be you would go and you would see your subscriptions feed so it was if you subscribed you know it was it it it's
49:05
like like thanks for watching subscribe to the Channel people used to say that on YouTube uh because when you open up the app it would just show you oh the person that I subscribed to posted a new video I'll watch it so I watch every video it was more like an RSS feed then
49:19
they switched to a recommended feed as the primary feed and all the views went crazy because if you had some people benefited some people benefited and and and the the whole all the content became more algorithmically driven you see the Mr Beast ification of YouTube where the
49:34
thumbnails and titles and video Concepts get more extreme because you have to win in the algorithm you're you cannot count on your uh fan base or your subscriber base like seeing every video so you have to win in the free market every single
49:48
time which is uh difficult but also got to earn it and it just kind of depends on the yeah and your your point of view we we were talking about this yesterday You released a video recently about Nike that did almost a million views Nike got
50:01
like 20,000 and then Visa got 600,000 oh it was flipped it was flipped and there were like very similar videos I think relas like two weeks or something and the Nike one I kind of messed up the title thumbnail the Visa one nailed it and you're not like you're kind of like
50:17
it doesn't actually like the whole thing of big content creation is you just need to put a lot of stuff in exactly so it's not like you're sitting there you're like yeah the my Nike video is actually good I'm proud of it but at the same time it's kind of on you you something
50:31
could have been better thumnail the title or whatever so what that tells me is like is like I think the channel has like 500k subscribers probably about 5% of those are like true fans that watch everything regardless of the title thumb they basically have like the
50:43
notifications turned on or the subscriber feed um but that Visa one got more views than my subscriber base therefore it must have just gone out in the algorithm and done well yeah um but yeah it's it's it's a it's a knockout drag out fight there and so yeah you
50:59
either have to be really really good at nailing the algorithm every single time cons consistency matters the creators that sort of train Their audience that we release every Friday at 9:00 a.m. and people are kind of waiting for that and at a certain point you can also get to a
51:15
place where you're averaging views out so it's like yeah you might have a miss that gets 30k views and then a wi that gets 500k views but if you get you know three of each of those every single month you know like yeah my channel gets 3 million views every single month and
51:30
I'm counting on that so I'm running ads against yeah and I and and as somebody who's you know I bought tens of millions of dollars of of YouTube Creator ads through branded native my the my first company um creators would always tell me
51:45
I get five million views a month yeah and I would tell them I do not care yeah because I'm going to buy an ad on one of those videos yeah so I'm going to price the ad based on your least performing sure videos right cuzz if I I can't go back to the advertiser and say you know
52:02
you you you paid thinking you were going to get 200,000 views and you got 20,000 views they're going to be pissed well there's there's another thing with that where uh I talked to a creator that has like millions of millions of subscribers
52:14
and he said views don't matter for actually driving conversions what he says is that uh like I have a million million followers 100,000 true fans if a video goes viral and gets 5 million views those like the 100,000 that watch the true fans they are the ones who will
52:34
convert because they trust me the 4.9 million people that just randomly saw my viral video they don't care about what I'm selling and so they won't buy but as an Advertiser Impressions matter and and you want to get in front of those people
52:47
and maybe you run a Facebook ad against them later and down the line so but but there is like a very uh there's like a trade ratio there for for the TR fans watching versus so there's always this question especially on Tik Tok it's like how many true fans these people have or
53:02
are they just going viral in the in the feed um so let's SW swap over to S Tech's analysis Ben Thompson uh has written about the Tik Tok band many many times are we starting with his the yeah Tik Tok band approaches generational implications sa
53:18
hongu which I guessan the red book uh I wrote about the Tik Tok band when Congress was considering it but have mostly St away from the topic given the uncertainty of whether or not it would actually happen well this is the last update before the
53:31
deadline so time to catch up to refresh he wrote in Ben Thompson wrote in favor of Tik Banning Tik Tok back in 2020 and his objection was less about user data than about giving a foreign adversary militarily economically and ideologically access to the hearts and
53:46
minds of Americans This is the point of don't let the Russians own NBC during the Cold War uh that remains my primary concern and if I anything the fact that the Chinese government is clearly calling the shots in terms of bite Dan's response to this ban confirms my
54:00
contention that Tik Tok was ultimately under the control of the Chinese Communist party got him what is clear is that uh it would have been far better to have acted in 2020 but at that point we were still in the president Trump supports this so it must be bad era of
54:13
Politics the great irony of course is that president-elect Trump is now opposed to the ban for some combination of not wanting to give metam more power satisfying prominent reporters uh prominent supporters and the fact that Trump has found great
54:27
success on Tik Tok uh even so it's notar I don't buy the great success angle because that guy will get views anywhere from anyone at any time yeah and true again that attention I don't believe so if the average person is spending an hour a day in the app yep that attention
54:46
will shift back to other platforms Trump also is and The Narrative of this election was not is the Tik Tok election it was it's the podcast election and where do those podcasts live Spotify YouTube RSS feeds yeah and so I think if any of those were at risk of banning
55:02
joean yeah if there really was it'd be weird but if there was some situation where it's like Rogan is going to get banned that would be much more of a lever for Trump yeah than uh than Tik Tok so I agree with you on that it's crazy uh I was just thinking
55:20
Al how is Alex Jones back operating under the Infowars is he he's I thought he the I thought he lost thought he lost all the IP but he's putting out new content under infowar really oh I didn't know it's crazy are so odd well yeah but and and
55:35
also I don't know who bought it it's how do you didn't buy it wasn't that the wasn't that the was that a joke or was that real who I thought the onion the dies the onion you never know you never know what that but I think he but it just goes to show like banning at this
55:50
point Alex Jones doesn't need the Infowars IP people just know Alex Jones yeah and he also could just slap Infowars on video and kind of stop him from doing that but anyways so it's not clear that Trump can do anything about the deadline which is
56:04
one day before his inauguration it's so funny how these political decisions get like it's like H let's at the deadline the day before like the last possible day it's really like waiting to do your homework until the very last second uh the other less discussed reason for the
56:17
ban is the fact that basically every us consumer tech product is banned in China I am sympathetic to the argument that the US is supposed to be a free market but at some point and Trump's read on trade would seem to agree openness depends on a Level Playing Field which
56:30
is certainly not the case when it comes to a product like Tik Tok yeah Facebook tried to go got banned Google tried to go and got banned Uber got kicked out and couldn't deal with that even Airbnb had some weird structure there and that didn't work like just here's here's the
56:47
the reality of being a foreign company trying to build technology in China yeah they will let you come and they will let you build but they will stall you yeah they'll kick you off banking rails they'll do all the stuff to just make it
57:01
so that you cannot succeed over there until a Chinese clone is able to copy and learn enough about your features that they just do what you're trying to do and I experienced this I was um I was uh working out of a place called China accelerator one one word and it's
57:18
basically like the YC of China I was like interning for this company that was a Israeli company who had taken money from China accelerator to launch this sort of like um uh retail Marketplace for foreign designers to sell into China and once a week they would kick us off
57:38
like they would shut down the bank account and and by the end I felt like it was intentional to purely just disrupt the business because a bunch of other Chinese companies had started copying what what this company was doing wow and I was like at the first couple
57:53
times I was I I would be the intern so I'd get sent down to the bank to be like hey guys like why is our account Frozen yeah and then they would be like like they just like would stall and stall andall I'd be there for like four hours
58:05
what you like this is ridiculous so uh so Ben goes on and says in speaking of Freedom while I think Tick's argument that the ban is a violation of the First Amendment doesn't hold up because there are other fors available for creators and there's Supreme Court precedent in
58:19
terms of deterrence on such matters to National Security concerns it's worth acknowledging that banning Tik Tok would destroy an immens of ly immensely valuable asset for anyone with a following on the platform indeed this is an underexplored angle of social media
58:32
censorship debate Banning users doesn't cost them money but a following is a valuable asset nevertheless that too is another reason why it would have been much wiser to deal with this issue in 2020 than in 2025 the value Destruction for Tik Tok users would have been much
58:47
smaller Point good point Ben goed yeah goed analyst yeah you don't find this guy in the truth Zone very often yeah uh so he says now again all of this analysis may be moot if the Supreme Court rules in bite Dan's favor which they did not uh it is also possible that
59:05
Tik Tok is sold at the last minute to an American company Mr be was saying he was going to buy it uh it was there was a talk about maybe elon's b bench was trying to put together like a coalition oh yeah yeah yeah I got a D that so it's it's just very obvious that there's a
59:21
ton of people that would it's a great asset y but they don't want to sell it yeah because that's what it's about it's not about the money they do It For the Love of the Game they do it for a love of geopolitical warfare great power competition uh I noted previously that
59:36
the two most compelling acquirers from a business perspective are Amazon or Walmart thanks to the potential tie into their e-commerce businesses but there was a rumor earlier this week that Elon Musk X could be the buyer he's obviously
59:48
pal palatable to Trump but also could be to China as well given Tesla's large presence in the country which needless to say presents plenty of its own complications Tik Tok did deny the rumor but one it is unlikely that Tik Tok is
1:00:02
in control of the process given that two it is unlikely that bite dances can control the process since three the Chinese government is the entity that has the final say even in that light though it makes total sense for bite dance in China to carry this process to
1:00:15
the very last hour in the hope of a re of a reprieve indeed the fact that the service is planning on locking out existing users which isn't required by law suggests that the goal is to raise an outcry and a last minute change of heart all that noted the most
1:00:30
interesting and uncertain outcome of the ban uh is if it actually proceeds as planned and Tik Tok just suddenly disappears Trump is right that the most obvious potential beneficiary is meta and Instagram with its reals products but I think he and observers Broadley
1:00:43
are underestimating what a massive deal it would be for meta to actually fill the Tik Tock void why permanently so why has Snapchat not made a run because there's a lot of people you know we just got a message in one of our group chats
1:00:59
from somebody saying uh from The Lone Ranger saying you should create Tech talk by the technology brothers that's just pure gradea American software yeah and run this back and like that's funny but I I don't believe that a I think a lot of people will try to compete and
1:01:16
use this moment to drive new downloads but to me someone like Snapchat who has a very similar audience uh they already have the distribution why why are they not rolling out an algo feed and trying they have one they have one yeah yeah and and they about it they do vertical
1:01:33
content and they have a huge uh Creator fund and people can get Crazy monetization by taking to Snapchat there was a whole game for a few years of people just taking YouTube content repurposing it for vertical Snapchat and making a lot of money yeah my my my
1:01:49
question though is historically uh Evan and the Snapchat team were quick and they would launch new featur and like they very they're Scrappy right they had to be against meta but there's so there's a list of um you know somebody was replying to one of
1:02:03
my post being like bad take here's like 10 features that Tik Tok has that none of the other platforms have and so if you want to win over these creators you would in theory try to hit you know the top yeah I mean you're you're like if you abstract that question it's really
1:02:18
just like why why is Snapchat not moving faster as a company uh and and also why don't they have a culture they only have one B Boeing Business Jet yeah so they're just like a flight that could be a big they have their own private like hanger at F eyes
1:02:40
but uh I do think that there is a little bit of potentially a culture where at at meta Zuck kind of broke the glass on like it's it's okay to copy things yeah because I bet that like the like meta for the first I mean Facebook he certainly broke the glass I mean he just
1:02:59
straight up smacked it and it's stories is I use stories now more than the main feed exactly and so uh I bet you in the first few years of of Facebook the culture was very much like we are inventors we are pioneering new user interfaces and new user experiences we
1:03:17
created the feed they created the feed like they created all sorts of different things the Poke they created they created the Cava brain great but then at a certain point Zuck saw that Instagram was taking off and was like we need to add pictures to our
1:03:34
we add photos to our product and they and they actually launched Instagram they had photos they they had photos but they didn't have a dedicated Instagram clone they actually launched a clone at one point they launched a video clone like he like there must have been
1:03:46
internally push back against like I'm a product manager I'm an engineer I like working on the cool stuff that's Innovative why are you putting me on this copycat product but somehow culturally Facebook got through that and it became like yeah
1:04:00
we're just here to make money and we don't want to get our lunch eat and buy some new startups weas you should build features that your users are excited to use thread seemingly has created a new ecosystem for people that on you know and they
1:04:14
have this amazing every I get notifications it's like some thread that looks interesting and if I want to see it I got to download the app I don't have the app download and so and so something happened with metas culture where it was like Hey look you know
1:04:28
we're just out here to build the best experience possible get arpo up Drive value shareholder value create the best company we don't want someone just coming along and eating our lunch so copying is not a pejorative at this company yeah I don't know if that's
1:04:42
happened at Snapchat I think at snap they might have a culture of like no we actually focus on like The Innovation stuff which is a lot more it's harder to do it at a big scale it's hurting them at this point and it's more random like you can't guarantee that you're going to
1:04:54
be able to come out with some amazing new UI Innovation I I I I think that most of our listeners will understand that it's it's much cooler to just be a massive business and do something less Innovative than be a tiny irrelevant company that's doing something super
1:05:14
Innovative it doesn't matter if you're super Innovative in terms of impact scale and revenue potential if you have no users right exactly um so yeah it's interesting your do think I do think there's some cool like if I if I you know enjoyed building consumer social
1:05:30
apps there are some cool things where you could you know create an app today that's like sign in you know and we will Port over you know you you can figure out sort of hacks and mechanisms to try to Port I I thought that um I own remember when I owned band trying to
1:05:50
pitch you on like to do with it maybe I wonder if anybody I mean I really think like 99% of the Tik Tok time spent on that app will flow to meta YouTube shorts and then Snapchat I do think will be a beneficiary but maybe they maybe they capture 5% of like the
1:06:07
bleed over so uh there's another interesting section in this Ben Thompson article I had an interesting conversation with someone who operates in the consumer market and he was casually ref referring to different Generations by their dominant social
1:06:21
network there's the Facebook generation the Instagram generation and the youngest Co is the Tik Tok generation for Instagram to extend its reach downwards by a generation would be a huge deal that would reverberate for years because that generation if they
1:06:35
can really pull them over to Instagram fully they're just going to be able to get ad revenue from them for you know it's perpetuity because once you get locked in there are a lot of people that are still using Facebook because that's their dominant generation and and that's
1:06:49
what they and like a lot of Millennials are still on Instagram and have just stayed with that and will be we Facebook it's kind of interesting how Facebook Marketplace is still as relevant as ever seemingly with everyone totally even though the main app is no
1:07:04
you know nobody I know is posting on there yeah but older people do yeah uh for sure uh and then so Ben takes the the opposite tact and says Uh there's also a reason why it might not happen younger Generations don't want to be on Boomer social networks and I'm sorry to
1:07:18
announce Boomer is an adjective for anything that is older than you is here to stay which is to say we are never getting rid of Boomer R uh one potential beneficiary could actually be Snapchat but there is also but there might also be an opportunity for a new Social
1:07:32
Network rare and improbable as that yeah I would I would love to see remember you know Alex ma he did um oh yeah not be real but the the what was the app that you had to like take a picture every I don't know no he had what was what was
1:07:47
Alex Ma's app blanking on this Benchmark led the series at front back no I was one he had a social audio Paparazzi oh Paparazzi where you take pictures of your friends every which was which was a cool user experience because it became cringe on Instagram to post pictures of
1:08:05
yourself and like the candid moments of like I'm taking a picture of you at the studio and then it goes on your feed like that that so my my take on new social networks is that the the arrow of progress only Moves In One Direction and
1:08:19
effectively you get sloppier as things as time goes on and so you you like like the thing that will kill Tik Tok is not oh be real take one picture per day it's actually the thing that gets someone to lock in on Tik Tok for three hours instead of one hour and when
1:08:38
I was thinking about like if I wanted to kill Tik Tok like what would I actually do from first principles if the goal was not to heal brain rot and also kill Tik Tok and get out of the CCP relationship you have to think about it just from beating Tik Tok and and then deal with
1:08:52
the brain rot stuff later and my conclusion was that you needed Tik Tok feed that didn't require any input whatsoever so if you look at the if you look at the iteration between Snapchat or or uh Instagram and and reals the difference is that on Instagram you see
1:09:09
a square and then it only takes up a half of the the screen real estate and then you have to scroll and you have to scroll precisely because if you scroll too much that it you might see one photo halfway at the top and one photo halfway
1:09:22
at the bottom right and so reals The Innovation there was that takes up the full screen and so even the tiniest little tab it's it's like rubber Bandy sticky and so you're either on one Tik Tok or you're on the next Tik Tok you're never halfway between them so one's
1:09:36
always playing so it's very easy to just slip into like one more one more one more and then on they actually switch to the next one it reminds me of America's Funniest Home Videos which was at the time some of the most entertaining content in the world because it was just
1:09:49
one video at a time I remember do you remember being a kid on YouTube in the early days where I remember you'd have like four or five of us around like the one desktop computer and everybody be like dude this funny video and then you'd just be sitting there being like
1:10:04
what did what was that you like that one you know what was that one video skateboard fall like and and everybody's kind of creating the feed you know at that moment yeah and so my my conclusion was that if you wanted to defeat Tik Tok you would have to have
1:10:17
the camera always on the front-facing camera read the facial expressions of the person and if you see that they're getting bored you scroll to the next one that's and if you see them laugh if you see them laugh it it it's like this is a
1:10:31
positive signal for the algorithm if you see them engaged you're like oh they're interested in this this was an interesting Tik Tok let's show the next one wire because you just sit there you don't even need to use your thumb to go like this you can just watch it and you
1:10:44
can just go ha and then it shows you another funny one or oh and then it's like oh that was shocking show them another shocking one you're like looking show different or they're paying attention to the notifications maybe the viral Loop could be the the camera is
1:10:57
recording too and so if you like it you can post your response and immediately doet it's like a reaction video so it's like I'm watching the Tik Tok and it's like I see something funny I'm like H that's funny oh yeah that's good send send my reaction to my network of my
1:11:12
friends and so it's even more sloppy even more brain Rotty yeah the the end state is the metaverse where everyone is just just locked in just looking at content for 24 hours a day and then you go to sleep and then you wake up and do it again and then every one of our ERS
1:11:25
are just figuring out how to properly monetize exactly exactly but yeah I I I do think that that's you know Instagram eventually you know you see an ad and to just buy the product you just have to go yeah yeah you don't even have to I mean I mean I've seen this pattern this
1:11:45
pattern developed somewhat on X where if you get in the the video feed you click on one video then you scroll up you'll see one video and when that video ends sometimes it'll play the video twice but sometimes it just Scrolls to the next
1:11:57
one so you can hands a lot of people don't like that but you can but you can effectively hands free watch videos instead of just watching them Loop which requires you to move your thumb which seems so minor but that actually is a a
1:12:10
friction point if you remove the thumb entirely uh you get you get to be more viral I've noticed sometimes I'll I'll have a video playing on like a reals type product so YouTube or or reals and it's kind of funny because if you have if you leave your phone somewhere you
1:12:26
walk away to do something else and then it's just replaying the video it's kind of annoying you want it move next one the attic the rat and you that's likeing the cocaine button you know wants it to just keep juice reward the Monkey Juice reward let's talk about Little Red Book
1:12:40
the Little Red Book um initially I posted if you download Redbook you're a Trader that should be sent on the first boat to Beijing uh or you should be forced to write the national anthem a thousand times uh you know Oh Say Can You Pledge of Allegiance
1:12:58
Pledge of yeah yeah um Pledge of Allegiance is better uh but then I realized that American users are going on there posting and uh there's that uh senior partner at Andre um future GP uh woman what one of the twins Venture twins she was posting
1:13:19
that uh their uh they was actually starting to you know founders were going on there and having conversations with the Chinese Founders if you don't know in China a lot of the Venture funds are are state funded and the founders have to sign like a full personal guarantee
1:13:36
so if you raise $5 million and your company doesn't work out they're going to take your house to like repay it yeah and she posted a screenshot of an exchange where American Founders were like yeah it's like it's actually like Risk Capital yeah if your company
1:13:50
doesn't work like you know you don't lose your house and all the Chinese Founders were like wait what really um and uh and then I saw another thing that uh uh creatine cycle uh Atlas he um he should really pick a name Atlas or crazy it's kind of we I like both names but so
1:14:09
Atlas posted let's tighten up the brand Atlas yeah so Atlas posted a screenshot there was like an American girl who posted like a Tik Tok Style video like an exercise gear and he posted uh uh you know China gave us Co we gave them
1:14:26
gooning because all all all the comments all the comments are just like oh wow I like these American Girls It's a real cultural exchange going on over there cultural exchange and and let's go let's give a little bit of background on Little Red Book it's a Chinese video
1:14:42
Network that competes with duin by Dan's version of Tik Tok within China from a from a column on China global television network web website uh which is state-owned uh the recent Rec surge of foreign users flocking to a Chinese social media apps uh zahu uh following
1:15:01
the looming threat of Tik tok's ban in the US has given rise to the term Tik Tock refugees this Mass migration to an alternative platform underscores the deeper divide between government policies and public sentiment as little Redbook climbed to the top of Apple's
1:15:16
App Store Monday it became evident that many members of the public remain unconvinced by the government rationale for targeting Tik Tok at the heart of the issue lies the question of National Security the US government has repeated asserted and Tik tok's Claim by Dan's
1:15:30
claim has been that the American government is Banning Tik Tok because of free speech and it's sort of this self-reinforcing thing where the people the people on Tik Tok are are saying I need Tik Tok it's important to me you're hurting businesses it's a free speech
1:15:45
outlet and then the Chinese government is saying yeah look they just want to ban you because Free Speech they don't want it's so funny this idea that like the yeah yeah yeah Trump Administration and Elon are definitely Banning Free
1:15:57
Speech while you can say whatever you want on X and it's like pretty deranged 90% meanwhile the the true American social media platforms are getting more racist more homop oh yeah like the r word we can just say that now like yeah yeah you have billion dollar executive
1:16:12
was that a Tik Tok thing did that come from Tik Tok I don't think so crazy there are already a lot of humorous interactions happening on Little Red Book but I chose this specific article because it both includes some interesting and perent
1:16:25
facts about the situation and is also a great explanation of how China is going to take the wrong lessons from this episode specifically the article frames the Tik Tock Refugee phenomenon as public disa dissatisfaction with the government which of course it is but
1:16:39
what is lacking is the contextual understanding to realize that US citizens are publicly dissatisfied with the government as a matter of birth right yeah which is true everyone everyone is everyone's bothered by the government in America that's most
1:16:51
American thing you can be indeed you can make the case from a certain perspective that it is the Tik Tok refugees that are the real us propaganda they are giving the a middle finger to the US government by freely expressing themselves at on Little Red Book which is honestly kind
1:17:07
of great and also will be very hard for the Chinese to Gro it is not a good sign in terms of understanding that the author of this column is relying on random Twitter user quotes to make a point I still calling it Twitter when they uh when the entire point is that
1:17:22
Americans can and will say whatever they want the problem for Little Red Book and the reason I think this migration will be short-lived is that this contingent isn't really going to give a damn about little red books moderation censorship
1:17:36
concerns the reality is that one of the most important parts of censorship operating at scale is triggering self censorship keep in mind the note above about the loss of entailed in a ban and that's not just not going to happen with Tik Tok refugees what is much more
1:17:53
likely is that little red book pulls itself from the US app stores in a week or two in the meantime all enjoy the memes and who knows maybe there will be some sort of value that comes from uh this sort of cultural exchange if anything this little episode is a
1:18:08
reminder of what was lost to the great firewall and to take this full circle that itself is a reminder that China started it Ben is so good you got to this this show should just be us reacting to Ben Thompson I mean we got to cover him like every every time when
1:18:25
there's good stuff like you got the man cooked did Tim cooked or is Tim Cook Ben cooked with that piece it's great Ben Thompson I mean he's also out there on the front lines living in Taiwan so I remember that and so all this stuff hits married a woman from Taiwan I think
1:18:42
so um but yeah I mean he's been deeply involved in in analyzing this I mean he was writing about this back in 2020 if Taiwan has ever invaded we're getting him a an A7 we're going to land we got to take the chopper into Taiwan yeah protect Ben Thompson for sure tsmc we
1:18:58
can rebuild we cannot rebuild there's only one Ben Thom there's only one Ben Thompson there are plenty of people that can do chip Fab uh over the last week the this is from 2020 uh wait should we yeah let's flip over to salana I mean this is this
1:19:14
is good this is a lot of older stuff I don't know that we need to go through all Banger first line from salana All is fair in Love and infa War let's go strong start you have the article too no no you want me read this okay Salon says last week following a classified hearing
1:19:30
with officials from the FBI and justice department which we still know nothing about and which for some reason almost nobody has covered a bipartisan group of lawmakers resurrected Trump's attempt at Tick Tock divesture which would force
1:19:43
Tik tok's Chinese parent bite dance to sell the company there's no forcing the CCP they're they're strong in that regard it's my addition ostensively the purpose of the bill is to mitigate CCP surveillance of US citizens which has persisted for years despite Tik tok's
1:19:58
project Texas Promises to the contrary of course we're putting the data in Texas well what Tex it's a smart move from them to be like yeah our our data centers are in Texas yeah but this time around in a surprised political twist the Democrats
1:20:16
are relatively quiet on the issue while Republicans the driving force behind divesture under Trump are loudly divided the other thing here we we haven't even covered this we should hit DGI on Monday cuz they're the next Target DGI DGI this
1:20:28
last week raised the the it used to be you couldn't fly a DJI drone into into um restricted airace restricted airspace like near airports and things like that and it was more than that they have a whole Geo fencing system that you can't even fly it at like Yos because like
1:20:44
that's national land they have a no drone warning a no drone Rule and so that gets baked into the m and we just can't turn it on the it's responsible like you know free speech is important and also flying they decided they decided this week I I'm guessing they
1:20:57
were I'm guessing their point of view was we're going to get banned let's get capture because DG is actually insane right it is if you could create like let's say you're the the CIA of China and you want to get as much uh and you want millions of spies right uh that are
1:21:19
you know collecting real- time information imagine you uh a spy that's a robot yeah that sends all the data back to you yeah and it actually gets purchased by by us consumers who fly on your behalf across the entire so so they can map everything and so uh I think DJI
1:21:39
is probably like yeah we're we're cooked here uh let's just uh you know take away the restrictions capture kind of as much data because DJI again it's the same situation as Tik Tok they have a better product in the market it's cheaper and better than other drones at that price
1:21:53
point and so of course people are saying I'm going to get the DJI drone it's just the rational decision just like it's the rational decision for a lot of consumers to open Tik Tok right um so they're next I'm looking forward to that um and that
1:22:07
one's gonna be rough because there are not a lot of Great American drone companies and well and also you're Hardware device that us consumers have purchased that they're going to say you what you bricked my DJI like basically I mean I think that I think that the main
1:22:24
thing is Apple bricks that brought us yearly so we can't be too mad yeah I mean I think the main thing is just stopping the flow of new drones and then stopping the software updates so that they can't add new things that make it worse and then
1:22:37
also uh probably really watching out for some sort of event that would cause everyone to put their drones in the sky at the same time because sure you could look at like okay there's I don't know 5 million DJI drones in the US right now 99.9% some of those are collecting dust
1:22:55
in closets right now because someone got on Christmas they flew it around a few times they realized hey actually I don't do backflips off of ski mountains with a team of people that can fly drones and get sick video of me it's the go problem
1:23:07
some of our some our listeners do yeah but but a lot of these drones just collect dust and so like does the CCP have the ability to turn on your drone and fly it out of your closet no like they just cannot do that it's not possible it's not possible how is it not
1:23:24
because I mean like the the DJI air is literally the wings fold down and you put it in a case like it doesn't have the power the motors are not strong enough to bust out of a case and like and then also bust out of your door break through after Israel like yeah they
1:23:41
probably they can melt the battery cause a little fire it be a little bit disastrous the bad thing that you don't want is there's a new generation of like DJI fours or fives or whatever and those have bombs on them and then all of a
1:23:53
sudden there's like hey ju and there's some meme where everyone needs to be flying their drones at the same time and there's a million drones up in the and then they're all taken over at the same time that would be really that but if they just took over
1:24:06
all the drones that are flying right now you would have like a thousand drones in the air like there aren't that many flying at at a given time so I don't think it's that much of a threat but um it should still be yeah beautiful beautiful like I I have to respect
1:24:20
China's work on this like getting millions of drowns micr the surveillance Stu is for sure all good you know that in China uh you can't drive Teslas near Tesla sells very well in China but you can't drive Teslas near the Forbidden City because they
1:24:40
know that they have cameras and they don't want Tesla mapping that area yeah which is fascinating yeah here's a good line so jumping forward with salana Trump so Trump uh has had to change your heart around Tik Tok he's like yeah maybe this thing's not so bad we don't
1:24:55
really know why here's potentially one reason Trump's apparent change of heart in favor of America's most popular Chinese app followed days of libertarian Rand Paul's defense of the company begging an interesting question what do Paul and Trump have in common allow
1:25:11
salana to tell you his name is Jeff yass a major GOP donor and an investor in bik dance therefore Tik Tok presently sitting on a stake in the company worth over $30 billion insane so Jeff is Jeff's Jeff's Cooking with that uh he's not super ha gonna be super happy on
1:25:28
Sunday that's like just that one position puts you in like the some of the top a of like any hedge fund manager yeah I'm Prett for years for years yes has both supported Paul and lobbied hard against Tik Tock divesture though never harder rumor has it than he lobbied
1:25:43
Republicans last week boom roasted he has also for the past couple of years of his swampland career been a fierce opponent of trump but all that changed just days before the Tik Tok drama bubbled over so where's Elizabeth Warren now when we need her to call this out I
1:25:58
wish Elizabeth Warren do you really have a monopoly on Dr write a letter write a letter let's call out Jeff Yas like come on like let's uh uh Jeff you're welcome to come on the show you've got the AUM for it um anyways uh this all um yeah anyways
1:26:19
uh salana calls it an incredible Scandal uh and of course he's probably one of the very few people people that's actually writing about this um and Rand Paul is posting Trump helped solve Tik Tock data problem through project Texas such a such a scam that they doesn't
1:26:35
they have a good overview of what project Texas is in there I wanted to see that a brief history lesson on Project Texas so this was developed when people said hey Tik Tok is clearly storing you know B storing all this data in China so project Texas was developed
1:26:51
by Tik Tok not the government it was not developed under Trump's tenure but President Biden's three following China's refusal to let go Tik Tok One account of and I can't believe it needs repeating we are obviously in a state of significant conflict with this country
1:27:05
and their government's ability to spy on US citizens is a powerful tool at their disposal Trump actually ordered the app to be sold or banned a policy that number four Biden reversed over the course of Biden's tenure available evidence indicates Tik Tok repeatedly
1:27:21
abetted the CCP spying on US citizens but the but the president president's abrupt turn in favor of divesture along with the entire house Commerce Committee seems more to do with the classified security Revelations mentioned at the
1:27:32
top of this piece yeah um these by the way didn't happen in a vacuum um so uh it's I'm going to skip forward a little bit it's worth noting every high-profile Tik Tock Defender has felt the need to lie about the bill in order to make their critique even remotely
1:27:49
palatable right uh but despite their insistance to the contrary Tik Tok has not been quote qu ban there is no bill to ban Tik Tok there is presently a bill in play to force a CCP controlled company to sell Tik Tok which would remain in operation but free of the CCP
1:28:04
politicians and public figures getting this wrong are doing so purposefully and while the question of Tik tok's existence might be understandably controversial why would it matter so greatly to any American that the CCP specifically maintain control of the spy
1:28:19
app this brings me to VC ramaswami truly one of the worst losers in the butt the thing is good oldfashioned quid pro quote corruption while disgusting is as American as apple pie and at least it's understandable and that I literally understand the motive but to the best of
1:28:35
my knowledge Yas isn't paying VC but V supposed to be a nationalist naturally amenable to a more symmet symmetric trade so what gives then he provides an update here I guess it was after they released while it's basically impossible to find on
1:28:51
Google a reader tip me off uh turns out Jeff Yas has funneled millions of dollars into the Vex pack so there you go Jeff Jeff uh I send us some money and then we can start promoting TI um so I I uh I don't I don't know Jeff but he's acting a little bit like a Trader here
1:29:16
I'm not gonna lie like I understand he's holding 30 billion at bite dance stock but doesn't bite dance have some value outside yeah wind down the position for sure yeah wind down the position or just like it's not like it goes to zero like
1:29:30
bite dance has other yeah business lines so and the cost base for that investment was like nothing compared to 30 billion so you could have rotated out but at the same time I you have to imagine bite dance wanted big American shareholders this whole time and they probably told
1:29:46
him no you're not getting out because they could block the sale especially something that big so um famously the ve pivoted from the position Tik Tok should be banned because it is a uniquely powerful form of digital fenel which he he called it
1:30:02
digital fenel to the position Tik Tok should not be banned because I kid you not he had dinner with Jake Paul who told him Tik Tok was important to the youth Jake Paul the Paul Brothers uh you know getting involved in in uh geopolitical uh psychological warfare
1:30:19
love to see it but V Vex message Thursday evening in support of a fairly distorted depiction of trump position really left me wondering what does this guy actually want immediately following the new the now standard bit of ban propaganda which he altered after I
1:30:31
roasted him for it the debunked a string of arguments nobody in Washington is making first he tackled The Addictive social media critique of of Tik Tok that he himself popularized months before his first pivot in favor of the CCP then he drew a false equivalency between bite
1:30:47
Dan's actual legal obligation given it's a Chinese company to share American data with the CCP and Airbnb scan a sale of us user data which led to a national uproar and high-profile firings Vex position yes sending data two is bad but this bill only targets one company
1:31:05
another lie he also endlessly repeated by the Yas queens and this really is a golden age of Journalism I think we're actually in it and it's because people like Ben Thompson people like Mike salana are running their own this this is like pitz
1:31:20
are running his media Empire where he's like I'm gonna say what I want um wild the first piece here is easily debunked the bill targets companies from China Russia Iran and North Korea but the second bit consists of a more cleverly constructed piece of rhetoric sure a
1:31:35
broad privacy Bill targeting sloppy American companies in addition to literal Chinese spies sounds great but BC knows how hard it is to pass legislation he knows a small handful of companies pose outside risks to the United States and he knows some broader
1:31:48
privacy push will be mired in Washington for years practically then it's clear he just wants the CCP to control the company which is insane how do we drive all the way from China virus quote he's putting this in quotes China virus which VC has said to I will defend
1:32:03
China's access to American data with my life uh it's a strange position for a America first politician as was of exposition uh the entire us startup ecosystem should die following the collapse of a Regional Bank back then in the case of Silicon Valley Banks collaps
1:32:19
he fell on standard libertarian rhetoric entirely out of step with his otherwise populist campaign arguing every startup that made the grave sin of trusting their cash and a bank should go to zero for their ignorance while every other
1:32:30
American at every other bank should be protected odd behavior for a nationalist who presumably sees interest in the ongoing existence of an American Business ecosystem I mean this is the the greatest roast of the V since like three weeks ago on uh which is which is
1:32:49
wild um do we want to go through the rest of this no I I think I have a good closer which was when Ben Townson was debating this the last the last thing I would say divesture is way too moderate band app that's L's position which I agree with and great cougan law coinage
1:33:05
uh salana often refers to it just as the spy app yeah which I love yeah yeah the Spy it's the Spy it's cuz spying is not just about data collection it's about influence right it's about sending your little minions into the country and
1:33:18
being like hey you really shouldn't you know here's how you really think about this or whatever but when when Ben Thompson was debating the Tik Tock stuff last year he had this great so a lot of the debate centered around like free speech like can you be can you really
1:33:34
say that you're Pro free speech if you're pro pro Banning Tik Tok and he quotes Ralph Waldo Emerson his essay in self-reliance where uh Emerson says consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds and I really like that and it's basically this idea of you need to have
1:33:55
some level of ideological flexibility and and you cannot get you cannot put the blinders on and just say I believe in free speech at all costs no matter what because then when something gets thrown your way that has other you know
1:34:10
third party externalities and impacts you wind up making very very bad decisions and so uh this is just it's just an important thing whenever you're thinking about these like difficult Tech and political issues to not get too focused on a specific uh consistency and
1:34:27
actually and actually try and understand the whole picture which I think is what we try to do today yeah and VC um he's had some Hilarious Moments and he's great reminds me of of Obama in many ways and and um and uh Newsome in their ability to just Yap like some of the
1:34:47
greatest yappers of all time yeah totally um but it's so easy to point out the consistency inconsistencies with his and and what you're saying is it's okay to be inconsistent in terms of application of these ideologies yes but in thex case it's okay you were super
1:35:06
you know you were ready to let the startup economy just burn yep even though you're a populist and then now you're flip-flopping on something that uh yeah I don't know I I truly believe that anybody that's taking donations yeah from a major bite dance shareholder
1:35:24
and then going out and saying that they will that Tik Tock should only stay in the control of B dance which we've now determined through this entire last hour is ultimately in you know CCP is calling the shots then um you know I I believe that's like traiter behavior and I don't
1:35:44
believe that VC has a place in the US Government after what I've seen here we'll see how it shakes out maybe maybe around you know thing our audience can rely on us for we do not get into politics talk about politics yeah well let's uh let's go to
1:36:00
something um completely take yeah let's take a quick break we'll be right back folks welcome back to the technology Brothers podcast still the most profitable podcast in the world uh we are going to jump into the timeline but first we want to bring you some promoted
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posts from our loyal fans who have given us some fantastic reviews yesterday yesterday we put out a call to action uh if you leave us a review on Spotify iTunes or wherever you listen to podcasts please put an ad in it for your whatever it could be an ad for you
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every review uh we will read out on the show and so this is just our little way of you know do a little for the show the show will do a little for you exactly one hand washes the other yeah we go so the first one comes from uh vam ganes
1:36:57
over at warp he says need that bottle of Dom now he says great podcast I am the hairdresser for Jordie and John together they've given me millions of dollars for my 40th birthday Jordie gave me a shiny red F40 and personally delivered by John on his 737 is uh and he's not wrong
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here in his his day you know his day job is posting and building you know one of the top payroll companies in the world but then sort of nights and weekends he's a celebrity hairdresser uh we had to beg we had to beg to get in he said you guys aren't real celebrities
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you're nichan internet micro celebrities you don't actually cells uh you can't afford the kind of cuts I give and and and we we we worked out some some some in kind trades and we made it happen and our hairs never looked better John so F
1:37:49
you to um BG yeah uh let's go to Anthony Bar uh barardi barardi uh he says precede round is filling up fast get in early while you can he says shout out to the brothers uh technology Brothers I think that's illegal I don't think I don't think you can generally solicit it
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but nice try we're going to take it as he did this as a joke yeah it's a joke but and we're an entertainment show so we're gonna read it out and maybe people so he says shout out to the brothers technology Brothers has quickly become my go-to source for all things Tech
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business and politics except they never discuss politics Tak on the show thank you from the Siz gong to lowan Bangers to JW's frequent ankle exposure the this podcast has it all this technology Brothers review is sponsored by my startup uh sit ryr sit
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ryer is an early stage Material Science company manufacturing carbon negative high performance resins and Plastics from Citrus waste our resins cost and perform the same as petroleum based incumbents and remove 1.5 tons of CO2 from the atmosphere for every ton of
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material produced CER is actively raising a prene to expand their engineering team conducting manufacturing demos with customers and reach pilot production scale send a DM to uh aadar aari bar barardi sorry uh on X to learn about how sit RR can help you
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with your sustainable material needs so thank you Anthony we appreciate you right you yeah just to be clear we don't give Financial advice we don't share investment opportunities we take the full allocation ourselves typically but uh very honestly super cool whoever if
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you want if you want to do the deal you're going to need some sharp elist to keep us out of that yeah yeah yeah we by the time you're listening to this we'll have taken 200% of the allocation with super P keep out keep an yeah thank you
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thank you for the review by just buy the whole company and fire the CEO sorry Anthony it's the job really sharp elbow we're gonna lever you up yeah SL some lever on it Venture debt let's got some insane c in there yeah it needs to be backed by your house if you have a house
1:39:58
we're taking that house too there needs to be a new Venture Deb product that basically says if you're not achieving 100% month every month growth like the whole all the equity holders are wiped out yeah and you get taken over and your house gets taken too yeah yeah so um
1:40:11
reach out to Baldo if you're looking for some Financial engineer support I like the Bal like he St B say his first name and people know on the show balda studies Finance at Corell economics like he's a expert Financial engine there go studied from the that's
1:40:27
great okay so Thomas Disney I guess from the Disney Fortune made his money in entertainment great great uh so the air to the Disney Fortune uh says trying to load and unload missiles in Ohio help with an andral contract he says load trailers fast listen to this podcast
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with all your extra time slip robotics delivers groundbreaking robots as a service solution designed to load and unload trailers in just 5 minutes this Innovation unlocks magnificent or significant labor saving savings minimizes equipment and product wear and
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Savings why not use that extra time to tune in the technology Brothers podcast it's as Innovative as the tech we deliver thank you that's a great integration bringing it back to the show One hand washes the other understood the mission delivered perfectly we might
1:41:33
have to read this one again yeah and it's and it's great to see an heir to such a dynasty as the Disney Fortune something in hard tech he's also looking with a help uh help with an andal contact so good luck there's definitely some Luke
1:41:48
Metro hit up Thomas Disney make some stuff happen love to see it uh so let's go to a uh a fantastic thread by Eric glan CEO of ramp uh we were riffing about this idea a couple weeks ago maybe months ago talking about you know a lot of people are complaining about waste in
1:42:06
the federal government doge is in the air everyone's talking about government efficiency well what if we put the government on ramp and it uh started as a joke but it's getting gaining a lot of steam and Eric uh it's funny CU we were joking about it but not it was not a
1:42:21
joke at all exactly we were 100% uh you know clear that the the fin the Govern the federal government and every aspect of our government should have better visibility into their spend no it started as a joke and then and then immediately I I I was just wondering
1:42:37
like wait so like when a DOD employ employee goes on a trip like how do they actually categorize their receipts like do they have Assist like probably not everything runs on paper and pencil like I've worked for the government it's
1:42:50
awful and so uh yeah bring in new technology makes a ton of sense and so Eric says imagine a company losing money for 20 years straight and failing seven audits the CFO would get fired right that's our government which spent half its budget deficit on interest it
1:43:08
doesn't have to be this way here's how businesses balance profitability and growth and how government can do the same for the past 23 years the US government has been breaking the golden rule of budgeting make more money than you spend say what you will about
1:43:21
corporate flaws but the private sector generally operates by this rule because those who don't eventually cease to exist while governments are not companies making more money than you spend is one area companies have lessons to offer and so it's worth studying what
1:43:36
can we learn from the private sector for years tech companies prioritize growth over profits that is until the 2022 market crash forced them to do the reverse the result improved cash flow margins from 3% to 16% meanwhile in the public sector government spending only
1:43:51
went up while companies I got to say gl's a very presidential CEO totally he when you listen to this you just get this sense of uh confidence right like he's you know not talking down to you he's explaining some of these sort of more complex issues he's uh illustrating
1:44:10
them um so anyways uh one of the Zoomers will say I'm no glazing but uh it's hard not it's it's hard not to glaze when you're talking about the most important Financial history continue on here he says let me be clear while companies must react to market conditions the
1:44:28
government operates without this pressure increasing spending regardless give us your George W George W he says the US government has many priorities efficiency hasn't been one can it take a page of the private sector's Playbook to improve its
1:44:44
efficiency think of any business or agency as a vehicle trying to move forward one way to increase that vehicle's velocity is by applying thrust but another way ways to reduce drag the efficiency formula of increasing context and control focuses on the drag factor
1:44:59
of this equation change of change in velocity is C time thrust minus drag so you can increase thrust or you can decrease drag of the uh the most effective businesses have efficient operations that contr that provide a high level of context and control context to
1:45:16
understand and audit exactly where your dollars are going software vendors Consultants travel meals and control to proactively and precisely manage where spend occurs EG Auto declining out of policy spend the more context and control an organization has the more it
1:45:32
can unlock its own performance velocity wasteful expenses represent the drag holding organizations back what does this look like for the government right now hundred billion do in Medicare Medicaid fraud 200 billion of SBA loan fraud
1:45:47
236 billion in improper payments $536 billion waste that's 7.9% of the government's entire budget down the drain what would happen if you imp if you applied the efficiency formula imagine massive programs like Medicare and Medicaid using real-time tracking
1:46:04
and automated controls to cut down on fraud don't overspend is great but can't overspend is better this is a this isn't a hypothetical it's a real possibility very clearly technical very clearly technically possible with modern systems and one that TR ramp customers have been
1:46:21
using for years when the US Cuts bureaucracy and ramps velocity exceptional things happen research is funded infrastructure is restored meaningful service to the American people is provided our GDP is 2x the next largest Nation we don't have a
1:46:36
revenue problem we have a drag problem like how he just give a subtle jab to to uh our friends across the Pacific yeah uh for much deeper and research on the problems as well as actionable ideas see research. contrary. comom uh thank you to contrary research and the ramp team
1:46:54
for your hard work on this yeah very interesting to kind of start with something that was kind of you know a joke but then we realized there was like a deeper meeting and then that's like kind of the heart of Comedy is like there's usually it's funny if there's
1:47:06
like some sliver of Truth and then to see the contrary people and the ramp team go and dig into what that would actually look like is is pretty fascinating I I want to go a step further though I want to see a a much deeper dive we were talking about this
1:47:19
like uh talking to the andal guys and some people who uh do Contracting like how does the money for a missile actually get transferred like like what rails are they using I want to know the full Tech stack of the government I want
1:47:34
to see it in extremely granular detail and understand you know is that even part of the problem is that where things are broken where they're breaking you know the the Disney like business graphic it's probably like that you need that kind of graphic for a single
1:47:50
payment you know totally it's just like well this thing needs to approve this and you know you need to get sign off over here and take the physical copy and carry it to the next building when it worked for the Department of Commerce
1:48:02
time sheets were done on paper with pen and paper and turned in into like a physical box that then would get that was back in the 80s that right it's 2010 F 2011 so is that insane that's crazy yeah like one of the biggest sources of alpha at work was just using Google Maps
1:48:22
and and spreadsheets which were not they were not procured by the US government it was just it was just my personal account and there's so much of that even in military context there's stories about um uh soldiers using Google Maps and and satellite imagery from go from
1:48:38
just the Google Maps product on their personal device to understand like how do I get from one military base to the next yeah like because we don't have the tool like internally we don't have we we haven't procured anything uh yeah it's fascinating rough and of course like
1:48:52
can't do that on the payment side in the same way although true the the the real thing here is by the time the US federal government does sign up for ramp is it really is only a matter of time you already have uh the comma campaign was using it we're sort of one step you
1:49:08
could imagine yeah you know if KLA had one she might have come in and said I love this ramp software I love ramp business Corporation so much we need to roll this out everywhere so it's inevitable the question is are we going to get credit for that initial joke as
1:49:24
starting domino effect of of converting the federal government to a to a customer yeah I would hate to see a situation where the US government resolves that $530 billion in waste but we don't get credit yeah that would be a disaster crazy yeah yeah that would be a
1:49:40
dark day for the Pod it'd be rough yeah but that's why we're talking about it we're canonizing it into when open AI trains their model their next model on this episode be like well the technology Brothers actually small child asks in an
1:49:54
American history course in 2095 why does the US government run on ramp they'll say well let's let me talk technology technology Brothers podcast originally rifted out by Jordy Hayes uh the the transformation of America into a financial Powerhouse started in late
1:50:13
2024 started on a podcast like many great things great uh well let's stay with Eric he has another post this was a banger today I think he got over a thousand likes um he says genuine career advice hang this poster in your room or closet and
1:50:27
it's a a picture of a poster that says believe in your self stay up all night work outside of your habits know when to speak up collaborate don't procrastinate get over your self keep learning it goes on and on and on like that and I and I like this because uh obviously you
1:50:47
know like we talk about fun we talk about um astrology and and mantras and like even like kind of silly inspirational stuff like this does actually work its way into your brain and if you and if you surround yourself with these kind of like that a closet I
1:51:04
couldn't yeah it looked like it was closet there's almost like clothes on either side which is cool but also this was interesting to me for the reason that you know Eric is a pretty buttoned up presidential CEO and and the fword is something that has has truly crossed
1:51:18
over into uh totally acceptable and inoffensive to everyone which I think is good uh because when I when I grew up uh the fword was censored on most TV and radio but then other words were allowed and I'm pretty sure uh and and there's
1:51:33
been kind of a renegotiation over what words will be okay to be used what words will need to be censored and I think uh you know I I I draw the line at the RW we don't need it but the FW punches just at the right level sometimes and it just adds a little bit of spice to whatever
1:51:50
you're saying and you know doesn't hit the same to say F that Jordy no exactly but if I if I call someone a idiot that hits just as hard as the RW for me freaking idiot freak ID the freaking was very funny I need that yeah I want that uh for for uh my son's room
1:52:10
just just replaced with freaking freaking freak just freaking you can just freaking do this uh let's let's do one more uh Banger post and then we'll move on to a promoted Post in a bucket poll say gared Todd says there is a real there's I think you're saying there's
1:52:32
one real Renaissance Man left and it is Nat fredman While most tech billionaires spend their time away on frivolities and psychedelics he bankrolled the translation of the herculanum papy and is now tackling the poison in our food supply and I mean we gave Nat Freedman
1:52:49
brother of the week you've heard these stories in the Pod before but uh you can't give him enough credit for setting just a very different pace of play for the the tech Elite and I I have a I have a you know evolved opinion on the scroll
1:53:04
stuff I uh I posted recently that um the only Alpha left in life is finding these rare Scrolls manuscripts books PDFs that that open AI hasn't had a chance to feed into uh 01 yet and I think that uh it's very possible that that Nat is uh only sharing 1% of the Scrolls that he's
1:53:28
actually doing it's just sort of like look I'm the sort of benev benevolent billionaire doing this public work but really he's trying to get all of this like esic knowledge for himself and he's consuming it and then just deleting it out of destroying the original Scrolls
1:53:43
like uh because uh in the end and he's probably going to be the last guy with the job yeah he's going to be the last man which a good oldfashioned you know yeah what what should Nat's next project be it seems like he's kind of crushed
1:53:56
the skulls I'd like him I'd like to see him go Indiana Jones mode so hire a team of former seals get a few Blackhawks and a nice yacht and start dropping into dropping into countries and and sort of taking their relics like act by force taking their relics by force maybe
1:54:16
he occupies the pyramids for a while and takes applies some of this attack I think you can just go to the the L yeah a lot of that's already been a lot of the hard work i' like to see uh more billionaires start to occupy spaces that
1:54:30
they they don't actually have a right over you so like you know people you know talking about Greenland all right let's let's you know let's uh you know send a landing Force let's like take one of their most Nic like vacation towns right like let's start there and not
1:54:46
have it purely just be a conversation you know what I'd like to see a sort of land yacht you know how Yachts there's this big like competition for like the yeah I want to see someone build a car that's 200 feet long yeah like kind of a tank so sort of steam
1:55:06
roll the steamroller thing exactly those huge dump trucks that move like mining equipment around and they're like 100 feet tall wasn't there something like that in The Incredibles remember that uh you remember that that uh it was a drill bit in the front so you could actually
1:55:21
go through through the Earth too if Elon had a yacht with a drill bit an earth yacht that could just like come up in an area and then like dive deep under into the core and just like cruise around and then pop up that'd be a great asset and
1:55:37
and Earth yach it's everybody says oh elon's so ambitious he's thinking about Mars everybody else is thinking about the moon but why isn't Elon talking about land Yachts the core and the core the let's look down right the ocean's a great mystery but the core is even
1:55:52
greater mystery you don't hear about people you know yeah people go deep in the oceans there people going in the alpha and submarines I mean there's all these Yachts but very few people killed submarines correctly half that R Ocean Gate was a disaster I know but that was
1:56:09
just that was that was a that was a a scop to get people to stop you know to to get people against these sort of submarines yeah which in the reality is like if if I look down your phone you talk with a bunch of be all the time yep every other person in your Tex has their
1:56:26
own private submarine Captain Crew they can go down under the water for a decade and and and be fine so well that's why you know privately a lot of people refer to Atlantis as like the Sun Valley of the ocean the new Sun Valley the new Sun
1:56:40
Valley yeah goinging to Atlantis yeah any move we'll have to do a deep we'll have to do a deep dive specifically on a literal Deep dive a literal Deep dive on on Atlantis the Lost City yeah um I'm not super prepped for uh let's do the locky one he's he's Shilling we're
1:56:56
Shilling on behalf of him yes I saw this post and I was like he's doing so this is a this is a promoted post of a shill uh locky locky uh says I almost never show my investments but after a week with impulse Labs it is very hard not to had
1:57:12
high expectations but it is consistently exceeded speed to boil water is incredible temperature control ease of use all perfect um love impulse and uh yeah I don't know a ton about this company but it it it's kind of seemingly like the time you know everybody was
1:57:28
coming out against gas stoves saying that you know they're toxic and wasteful and and have a negative environmental impact uh and impulse seems like they perfectly timed it of not just creating an electric stove but creating a something better than the gas stove
1:57:43
better than fire one of my first inventions as man so there's a little bit of huis like yeah actually effort really yeah promethian effort to reinvent the stove um and uh hopefully he won't be struck down for his heris yeah but I think he's built different
1:58:01
he's built different yeah yeah any he might even be better than the gauze the CEO of impulse yeah yeah yeah he's certainly I would put through a locky in he's certainly you know developing products in that way so anyways we got to get this one one of these at the
1:58:15
studio I I really want to be able to cook a steak mid episode on the table that be great and have it and and we can just go back and forth finish the episode barbecue style so impuls laughs if you send us send us one of these we'll start doing
1:58:34
Korean barbecue episodes where we just yeah in between the Dom episodes yeah yeah we've been really so John this will be another episode John's been obsessed with feasting on Lion because he keeps saying I'm I'm I'm like built the same like we just have I well there was a
1:58:53
study there was a study uh a bunch of MIT Harvard and uh Stanford researchers got together and they studied the food supply and they they St they looked at the data and they found that scientifically what's going on when you consume animal meat is that you absorb
1:59:09
the power from that animal yeah and so if you eat a lion you become more like a lion if you eat a bull you become more like a bull and so uh just just from a from a physiological perspective eating lamb exactly even though it's you know and certainly never a plant because you
1:59:25
just want to sit there you want to be eating oysters so you develop a hard outer shell exactly exactly yeah yeah let's go to a uh bucket pole oh from n v Baldo congratulations Balo uh Baldo says anyone else miss Diesel Greta yapping about climate
1:59:46
change on the TL let's go I love that we printed this out with 208 so we sniped this before yeah clearly like within seconds of it of it going out but um you know what a good one when you can still see the scroll bar there on the screenshot I refer to this like
2:00:04
being like a big game hunter on the timeline when you when when you see something you screenshot it so fast the scroll bar hasn't disappeared from your phone so it shows up in the screenshot because it's like I had to screenshot that good great yeah I uh I gotta say
2:00:18
did she fall off after the there was that behind the scenes video where she was like clearly wasn't she like a na or something well there was that whole Arc but she she plays a character she's a smart yeah young content creator and they kind of caught her out of character
2:00:37
and they caught her like faking some of these arrests and I think it just it all really caught up at once and and that's one of the issues if you're not being authentic and um you know you're just uh anyway so Greta I'm sure she'll have a
2:00:52
Redemption Arc everybody deserves a Redemption Arc so my all my take on Greta was that there was a fork in the road she's clearly a very talented young person she could have if she' just done a teal Fellowship she would have built like five nuclear reactors by now
2:01:08
probably had a massive impact on climate change and instead she just became like an annoying poster uh which is very sad to see so build I mean that's the that's the answer to all this stuff you know it's always so funny when like the
2:01:21
Environ environmentalists are like throwing paint on electric cars and you're just like okay so you believe in nothing um let's go to uh near near says we kind of created The Matrix and all it took was infinite scroll plus short form video yet billions are trapped in it
2:01:36
techno Optimist for everything except short form video it's interesting take I do I do worry about wireheading as being like the the bad outcome of all this um we created The Matrix people are in The Matrix looking at infinite yeah that was that was a
2:01:54
post AC refererence earlier on the show it uh yeah sometimes uh this thing that everybody's anticipating emerges and it doesn't look exactly like yeah it would maybe feel more like the Matrix if everybody had their apple Vision Pros on and was just fully locked in but that's
2:02:14
almost like a secondary like I just think it's interesting how sci-fi how influential II is on human development and Innovation that if you really wanted to influence the future now you would be making Sci-Fi movies that seems to be in
2:02:33
the same way that you can have an impact through building technology companies if you created in Angel Studios just for new Sci-Fi Concepts right now you could be influencing the world in 30 or 50 years and be thinking about okay what does a world look like with ASI what
2:02:46
does the world look like where every home has a nuclear reactor we're talking to Sham sham SAR about this at paler CTO he just started a new film studio and J carman's starting to do his first sci-fi film like yeah no way and so I think can
2:03:02
we can we cameo in that Jason Jason I think if you need two two guys that can Yap yeah were those guys I mean the hard part about good Sci-Fi is that yeah it really does all come from like the seat of the idea yeah but it also to have enough cultural impact and get into them
2:03:20
and you have to do it Hollywood style Blockbuster I think it yes but I think that you only get that you only earn the right to do the Dune style treatment that's what I'm saying you got unless you have a brilliant idea first and we are we have a short we have a shortage
2:03:37
of like great ideas about the future of sci-fi people are very uncertain about what things will look like we've already mapped out like flying cars robots llms aliens like there aren't a lot of people that are talking about like truly new
2:03:48
science fiction stuff well we're talking about lanyards with tra that allow you know Bean to travel deep in the Earth's crust for you know and get get to China in an hour but yeah I mean there are I I I need to dig into it because there's the Hugo awards that do
2:04:05
uh the best sci-fi books of the year and the best sci-fi shorts of the year and I bet if you dig through some of those award-winning sci-fi shorts there's some interesting Concepts that haven't really percolated into the Z yet but it's always hard it's like you know it's it's
2:04:21
it's hard to find like the next cuttingedge music Trend unless you're really in it and going to shows small places and listening to random stuff and then you find some seed of something that becomes popular and then and then all of a sudden it bees becomes
2:04:34
mainstream there's probably something like that going on in the Sci-Fi Fiction scene I'm just not tapped into it but I'd like to be because uh I love this stuff and it's really cool uh have you ever watched love death and robots Netflix it's really cool I've seen like
2:04:48
five films and five T place so love death and robots is Anthology series uh where they they licensed short form uh short science fiction stories and then had uh CGI and Animation Studios go and create like film versions of these animated versions of these um and it's
2:05:10
great and you can watch them and some of them are three minutes and some of them are 10 minutes and some of them are funny some of them grapple with like really there's like a one that's like a Horror Story basically uh and and it's a
2:05:18
cool way to kind of surface these uh these like sci-fi stories in like a lighter touch way I don't think it's as expensive as like shooting Dune um but uh yeah yeah people have talked about doing a tech Positive Black Mirror before which would be Black Mirror is
2:05:36
just like yeah you know talking you know basically demonstrating the horrors of Technology but there could be ENT of that but the problem is that I think a lot of people get lost because they say I I want to make a techno Optimist black Mir but then they forget that every
2:05:54
great story needs a villain and you have to have Conflict for the story to be engaging whatsoever it cannot just be that's why we can't exist without Tech journalists and Tech journalists can't exist without us exactly yeah you can't
2:06:06
just do the story of like oh yeah we developed rockets and we went to Mars and it was great like no one's going to watch that it's just boring yeah you need conflict you need the rocket to break and musk yes you know fighting and then they they they get to lock in their
2:06:22
lawsuit and then they just say let's get in a MMA match while on a rocket to Mars and The Winner Takes Over Mars and subsequently controls Universe there we go Elon would have an edge there I think I think so um okay just heads up I got like basically like
2:06:42
20 minutes [Music] um like 10 10 minutes uh well let's go to Elon say please be a bit more positive beautiful or informative please post more positive beautiful or informative content on this platform very funny post because uh people were
2:07:01
like screenshotting the next to elon's like most aggressive posts but Aaron slodov uh took the assignment uh literally and delivered he says Be Me human living in 2024 ancestors crossed oceans in wooden boats now we're building spaceships literally have all
2:07:18
human knowledge in my pocket and can learn anything great great great grandparents died from simple infections now we're editing genes to cure diseases watching humans casually land Rockets like they're playing cball space program can instantly connect with anyone on
2:07:32
Earth and share ideas for free my feeling when we're building quantum computers and artificial brains each generation builds something impossible for the last one we're not just planning Mars missions we're testing Rockets right now that feeling when born just in
2:07:46
time to witness Humanity becoming a multiplanetary uh civilization great great post a lot of good stuff great poster yeah great poster great event thrower great yeah great Builder I feel like I feel like X has been pretty positive this this week yeah
2:08:06
ever ever since Elon said hey yeah also the fires like brought out a lot of some vital against the politicians but generally a lot of support and yeah I mean did you see the catch yesterday they C again and it was like I didn't it didn't even hear the
2:08:23
buildup for the catch like last time they did it there was like oh I know some people that are going to watch it live and will they want will they do it will they won't won't they do it and this time it was just like oh yeah they caught it again like okay it's old yeah
2:08:35
and the crazy thing was the visual of all all everything they sent up the breaking up the breaking up yeah cuz the actual Starship disintegrated which I think it was like a failure for that test but still they caught the booster which is cool so kind of like a some
2:08:51
good some bad out of that I guess shout out to Red Bull futurist oh yeah he posted the second they caught it he was like something like that was cool let's do it again no that is the sentiment back to work and then other other SpaceX
2:09:04
employees were showing yeah like uh you miss here's what you miss and it's like showing all the rubble and explosions and all the times that it didn't work and it really is um uh you know the catch is so interesting because uh i' I've seen some some SpaceX critics say
2:09:23
like oh well like you know we we have rockets that land it's just called the space shuttle like the space shuttle would go up and was reusable it would land and then you'd put it back on a rocket but the time just to get the space shuttle back upright is like days
2:09:38
and like you have to change everything out and stuff and so having that booster that can just go up and then come back down and it does it in a matter of minutes it's not like it's up there for like days and then it comes back it comes back down and and then they refuel
2:09:49
it and it's ready to go and you can you can imag you can see that at least structurally the design will enable like dozens of flights per day like pretty easily and that throughput is going to be really really important and it's probably under discussed because just
2:10:04
watching it is like so amazing but what what's really amazing is the the the the like the machinery for high throughput rocketry that elon's obsessed with and this is the same thing with like manufacturing Teslas at scale like the the guy just loves like scaling up like
2:10:20
you know Mass Manufacturing let's go to he's a mass monster he's a mass monster uh Master orbit getting big let's go to Jeff Lewis he says at the top there's no such thing as work life balance the healthy way to integrate business and life is via
2:10:36
love great Pro I I I went through this at I think around 21 22 Yeah and uh at the time I was facing pressure from people in my life say like you need more work life balance and all this stuff and my reaction at that time was I don't I
2:10:58
don't want to work less I actually want to work more I'm trying to set my life up so that I can work harder longer Etc and do this for many many years but what was true about that was there were certain aspects of the way that I was working that were negatively impacting
2:11:15
my life and so finding that balance of and getting to a place where you love work where if I if I'm up late sending emails well if I love the work then that's not a negative experience it's a negative experience if you hate what you're doing yeah um is that is that how
2:11:34
you interpreted the love section of that that was the that was the only thing that I that I didn't fully understand about the post was the healthy way to inte life business I mean that's that was my interpretation of have if you have a love for business craft and and
2:11:49
uh and your life which to me is family and friends right like and that and I'm fortunate that um you know we're not friends we're strictly business partners but um I'm fortunate that I love the work and I love my life and I love that
2:12:06
they intersect you have to have dinner it's fine because we'll be able to business the entire tonight you know we're going to have dinner and our wives will be like can you guys just stop playing the character for literally two minutes so that we can order I mean at
2:12:21
the at the last dinner it was like you know 15 minutes of pleasantries and then like two hours of like let's play on the next activation Sarah was like hey just some feedback like if you're going to get both families together and like you know we're going to have like a nice
2:12:35
dinner could you just like try to spend like it's fine if you spend like half the time like talking about work but like you guys spend all day together could you at least like could you just like talk about something else like a little bit and I was like okay yeah
2:12:50
you're right it's ridicul anyways love what you do love your life it's all one thing that that was the other thing is it's all one thing there's no business is life life is business it's all one thing you got to love it all the good and the bad um the
2:13:06
highs and the lows the bangers and the flops yeah I went to dinner last night at Restoration Hardware they they have restaurants now yeah and they all the food items are shaped like the cloud couch I could couldn't help myself from making so many jokes I was like so is
2:13:23
this like a popup or is this like permanent like oh well like yeah it's actually permanent like they're going to have the restaurant in the store forever and I was like is that in had in I need mon I was like oh so more like the Ikea model than the Home
2:13:37
Depot model we're like was like I was like oh going to dinner at uh restoration Harwood that's great I mean I love getting a a hot dog outside of a of a Home Depot you the Ikea meatballs great it's a Costco model yeah chicken B I was like so what so we're at
2:13:52
rest Hardware uh restaurant what what's the equivalent of chi chicken bake if I get if I'm here like what's what's your specialty what should I get just like like sir please stop we're GNA have to escort you out you've been in there for four hours that was polite that was
2:14:08
polite but it was very funny being like in you walk into the restaurant and there's just like a bed there because they like sell like furniture and Stu anyway we should wrap up last yeah let's WP let's wrap we're going to do one more call action okay uh we want to advertise
2:14:24
your companies unless you can afford uh you know you know package in the six to seven figure range you're going to want to uh just skip the negotiation and just go straight to our review section Spotify Apple uh leave us a fivestar review and mention something about the
2:14:44
show but then uh really spend the bulk of the reviews talking about your business what you're working on and why it matters yep and a call to action and then we'll read it out on the show thank you Brothers we will see you on Monday thanks a lot