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I'm just going to start at the beginning.
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Richard, welcome to the show and thanks for coming to Austin.
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Tim, I'm honored to be here.
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It is very much my pleasure.
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And I was mentioning this before we start recording.
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I have had you at the top of my list for people I want to spend time with because I find just about everything about you fascinating and I've wanted to ask so many questions.
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And I thought we would start maybe in a place that it that would be unexpected for people listening.
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I'm not going to start way at the beginning in childhood.
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We'll probably get there, but let's start with the Magic Castle.
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What What is the Magic Castle?
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The Magic Castle is to magic what the Grand Ole Opry is to country western music.
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It's the premium place for magicians to perform around the world.
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And they have what's the equivalent of the Oscar at the Academy of Magical Arts Awards, AMA Awards.
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And um but we uh it's a 27,000 square foot Victorian mansion built 1907. And there's you go in.
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It's for strictly for adults, 21 or over. Must have ID.
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Back to the old days, you have to have coat and tie. You cannot overdress.
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If you're underdressed, they don't let you in.
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They don't like what you dressed, they don't let you in.
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And uh and it's by invitation only, but it's just a very very fun venue and place to perform.
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I just got returned from performing at the castle night before last.
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I just flew in last night.
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You have one of the busiest schedules I've ever heard of and I've met some very very uh driven, busy people.
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Uh the Magic Castle has been this vision in my head or it was I should say for many years and I had the opportunity to go there for the first time just last year with with a member and it just blew my mind to see the variety of skill and the level of skill in the various rooms because there are these these different rooms for different perform performers and different types of performances.
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Could you speak to and I I hope I'm getting this name right, Dai Vernon?
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Oh, yes, you got it right.
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So, who who is Dai Vernon and how did you first meet?
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Well, Dai Vernon first of all was born in 1894.
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He lived to be over 98 years old.
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My wife, my beautiful wife Kim and I threw him his 98th birthday party 2 months before he passed away.
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And he was known as the man who fooled Houdini and that took place 100 years ago this year. 100 years ago.
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And Houdini had a boast that he could if he saw the same trick three times he could figure it out.
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Vernon did did it for him five times, couldn't figure it out.
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And so he was known as the man who fooled Houdini and for over a half a century he was the best in the world with a deck of cards.
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And there's different types of magic.
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There's the big what we call furniture movers the big illusionists and most of those things those that type of show is really money uh more than talent.
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You just have to pay $200,000 to buy this big illusion that turns a cat into a person, you know, inside of a cage or whatever.
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And then there's the parlor magician with the link rings and make eggs come out of their mouth or whatever something along those lines where smaller audience but that's called parlor magic.
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Then there's the close-up magician who will do stuff right in front of your eyes like they'll make coins jump from one hand to the other and or they'll do card tricks.
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But the the most difficult of all forms of slight of hand is the work for the card table, the gambling work.
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And that work is the most closely guarded information of all slight of hand.
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Nowadays, with the internet, just about everything is exposed.
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And Vernon, um wanting to know about more about more about the moves of the gamblers, first read a book in written in 1902 called Expert at the Card Table by S. W. Erdnase.
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And nobody knows who Erdnase was.
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And the at that time, the magicians of the 1910s and '20s, they Oh, we don't care about that book.
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That stuff's too hard to learn.
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And Vernon had it mastered by the time he was like 12 years old.
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And um and so he spent his life hunting down hustlers.
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He was the first one that found Allan Kennedy in 1930-31, who supposedly could deal cards from the middle of the deck, which no one thought that was possible.
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And so that and that information was the most closely guarded pieces of slight of hand that you can get a hold of.
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If you get a hold of it, you get passed on just special people like Charlie Miller and a few others.
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And uh he I met him in 1975.
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I'll I'll I'll tell you a quick backstory. Kind of funny. yeah.
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Doesn't have to be quick, but please go ahead.
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I was working with a guy named Bob Yerkes, y e r k e s.
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He was just at my show on Sunday.
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He's going to turn 87 next month. He's been in stunts.
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He's been stunt business for 73 years.
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His first movie was in 1947 with Elizabeth Taylor.
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And he's doubled everybody under the sun.
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Literally thousands of stunts in on television, thousands of stunts in film.
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I had the movie Earth Towering Inferno.
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Or Earthquake, he died seven times in Earthquake.
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Then died of multiple times in Towering Inferno. And on and on.
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He was on the move recently with uh Tom Hanks on on Angels and Demons.
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He was the minister that was being burned alive and they forgot to turn the fan on to blow him out. Okay.
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Tom Hanks says, "Well, at least you didn't have to act."
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Cuz he wasn't acting, he was screaming, "TURN THE FAN I'M HOT I'M HOT."
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ANYWAY, but anyway, so I was working with him.
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We were training a It was a show called Circus of the Stars.
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We trained celebrities to do circus acts and I was for better or worse, I'll just call him my gofer his gofer.
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And um but I lived with him and he's a dear, dear, dear friend for a husband 50 almost 50 years.
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And um and so we we were training uh for the Circus of the Stars and uh Lynda Carter show called Wonder Woman.
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And uh I have dive Vernon heard I could do some very uh difficult moves with the cards.
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I just turned 21 and I found out I was going to meet him at the Magic Castle and I found out the night before I had to have a suit to get into the castle.
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At that time I couldn't afford a suit. I didn't have a suit.
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And so I thought, "Okay, I have my gambling money."
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I was at you know, at that time stacks of 20s which was a lot of money for me.
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And uh and so I went to the Northridge Shopping Center, set my deck of cards on a coat rack, started thumbing through coats.
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The sales guy comes up to me and says, "I'll cut you high card for that coat."
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I thought to myself, "This is my lucky day."
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I said, "Okay, I'll go for that."
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He goes and he backs off and says, "No, no, I'm just kidding."
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And I said, "Tell you what."
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I took out two twos and a queen.
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I said, "Come over to your desk here."
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I moved him and I said, "If you tell me where that queen is, I'll pay double for the coat I picked out.
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If you get it wrong, you give it to me for free." He goes, "Really?" I said, "Really."
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Well, I threw those cards and darn if you didn't miss it. I said, "Tell you what.
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I'll bet the coat against a pair of pants.
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Give you a chance to get your coat back." He goes, "Okay." Lost again. I said, "Tell you what.
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Coat pants against a shirt and tie."
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He said, "Okay, but this is the last one." And uh lost again.
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So I walked out of there with a brand new suit, didn't pay a dime.
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I said, "If I would have known he was going to uh go for it, I wouldn't have picked out the cheapest coat in the place.
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It was a tan corduroy piece of crap that I still have today because it's how I first met Vernon.
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So, I still have it as a souvenir.
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But anyway, so I get to the castle and um and he Vernon There was two guys in the room.
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Guy Vernon and the listeners in the library, which was separate closed off to the public.
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And uh and another guy named Tony Giorgio who's best known as the actor in the movie Godfather.
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He played played Bruno Tattaglia, which was Vito Corleone's toughest head spinner.
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And there's a scene in the movie where a guy takes a knife and stabs his hand in the bar. Yeah.
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The guy with that knife, that was Tony Giorgio. That's Tony.
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And he was a bust out man back in the '40s and '50s. What is bust out man?
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A bust out man is somebody who a casino will have on hand.
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Oh, hey, that's Tim Ferriss. He's got some money.
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Okay, Tony, take him out fast.
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So, bust out man means they're going to take you down.
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They're going to take you down quick. Get that money from you.
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Or if it turns out that man, that Tim Ferriss, he was just too lucky.
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Okay, Joe, you're out of here. Tony, you're in. Get that money back.
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And getting back means bust you out fast. Using card techniques?
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Yeah, using slide of hand, using card techniques, exactly. The gambling moves.
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Whatever whatever his artifice was.
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Probably in his that case a peek with a second deal. And so one more time.
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A peek that was he would peek the top card, know what the top card is, and then he would deal the card under the top card.
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So, you can see that card on top. What's that card?
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That's the five of hearts. Okay.
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And as as he would deal to the other players, see that top card is not moving.
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It's For the For those who can't see what we're doing, I'm dealing the cards in slow motion and the top card is not moving as that second card comes out.
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But it looks as though it's the top.
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And I can like here's even with one hand.
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And now and of course when the cards face down, I turn it face down.
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Now you're watching, and you can't tell that you've been swindled.
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So he would take a pound, and so then he became an actor in the '60s. Yeah.
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And um anyway, so at the table was Dai Vernon and Tony Giorgio.
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And Giorgio was you know he was about 6' 4", mean, nasty mafia hit man.
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I play I always used to say he never had to act, he just played himself.
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Mean, nasty mafia hit man.
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And because we had battles for all together 38 years, but we battled each other for 20 years.
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And at first I was no threat, but anyway I'm showing Vernon my moves, and he go Vernon goes, "Well now that's all right, but but I don't care how fine you breathe, when you're moving your hand like that it's unnatural.
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It's a it tips you off, and every time I did anything Giorgio chirped a seat from the other table not involved in our little private get-together Won't get the money. Won't get the money.
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And then I showed him Won't get the money. Won't get the money. What did he say?
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Won't Won't get the money. Get the money.
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Will not get the money, but it was won't get the money, which is in other words it's not good enough for the card table. Uh-huh.
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And so So that's just That is just slight of hand smack talk.
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That is That is Won't get the money.
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That is like your mama type of line Exactly. Exactly. Won't get the money. You get a double banger. You shot twice.
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And and so but Vernon and then I showed him the move I just showed you and that technique he thought that was kind of clean because it was more natural.
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And so I remember what he said, and I went home and I practiced what he said.
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I don't care how much you move your hand, no matter how fine that brief is it's unnatural action.
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So naturalness, and that's what I learned from Vernon Vernon.
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Naturalness, you have to be natural in your execution.
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And uh and so I practiced and the next time he saw me he goes, "Now that's better. That's better."
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And he took a and he took a liking to me cuz he would see that I would put in I practiced at the time and this is I and it's not an exaggeration, even though I almost wish it was because it I I I would practice an average of 14 hours a day.
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That was my average time practicing.
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But sometimes it might be only 10 hours because I spent extra time in the gym because I was training for some kind of a fight or on other days I got up at uh 6:00 in the morning, went to bed at 3:00 and I might have may have practiced 20 hours that day.
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But my average practice time was 20 it was 14 hours.
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And that was sustained for 26 years, 7 days 7 days a week.
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And Vernon saw this obsession in me and so he took me on as a pro uh well, a student protege and to cut to the chase, I became the recipient of a century worth of his most guarded card table artifice.
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The techniques that he traveled the world uh hunting down these hustlers and learning their moves.
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And uh and he and I still have things today that only he and I know and I've created things today that only he and I know and he's not telling anybody.
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I think it was uh uh was it Benjamin Franklin said, "Three people can have a secret but you have to kill two of them."
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So, if if we talk about your practice because your your practice and work ethic it it struck me when I first saw Dealt, it struck me as I've done homework and preparation for this meeting.
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What makes good practice?
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Because there are people who practice a lot, they put in a lot of hours, but their skills don't improve or improve much.
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So, what what makes good practice for you?
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Very, very, very good question, Tim.
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First of all, I I say practice does not make perfect."
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They say, "Practice makes perfect."
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No, practice does not make perfect.
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Perfect practice makes perfect.
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You can practice something wrong, when you're done it's perfectly wrong.
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And I see it in my industry all the time.
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They'll practice a second deal in some awkward fashion where uh the most common one is the strike second, and I'll give a visual clue uh picture.
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The card is turned face up on the deck.
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They'll they'll hold First of all, usually they hold the deck in real tight, what's called a mechanic's grip or a real deep grip, and they'll widen up the grip a little bit.
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And then um when they go to take the card, they'll bypass the card they're taking so they can hit the second card and deal it out.
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And and that this this is the standard second deal that you'll see people do, but it has all kinds of tells. It has a lot of tells.
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First of all, you're pushing the top card over to receive it with the other hand.
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So, why is the right thumb bypassing the left thumb?
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And this because so they as exposure of the top of the deck where that second card is to get a hold of it.
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That is a totally unnatural action, but you'll see it all the time.
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And then and then and then you don't have a dead deck.
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Uh one of Vernon's students, and who became a peer of Vernon's, was a guy named Charlie Miller, who I had the privilege of spending time with.
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And they grew up all through the '30s, '40s, '50s, '60s, '70s, '80 '80s.
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And Miller talks about a dead deck.
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When you're dealing the top card, everything below it, there's no movement. Uh-huh.
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And so, if there's movement being made when you're taking the second card out and the top card is going back, you don't have a dead deck.
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You have movement of two different movements.
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There's a second card coming out, the top card going back.
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Now, watch my second deal.
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There's there's no I'm not I'm not crossing the thumbs at all.
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And my left thumb is uh Uh, there's no leaking of the card at the other other corner and I'm not going anywhere near the top of the deck.
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And this um that particular second deal I have practiced Well, I've done it in front of a live audience about 5 million times and in practice I've done it over a hundred million times.
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That one move and I I proclaim mostly I say that it's probably the most difficult move in all of slight of hand because there's only two three other people that are getting it down and one guy's been working on it after he after he watched my videos for 13 years now.
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And uh and but it just takes a long time.
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But anyway, I get off off of a track.
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Practice does not make perfect.
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Perfect practice makes perfect.
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Same thing with a in the martial arts.
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You know, you throw a sidekick.
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You know, other people don't swoop the kick up as they go.
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You lift it and you shoot it in like a like a like a blade.
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You practice it wrong, you sit there practicing it wrong and you're done. It's It's not wrong. It's perfectly wrong. Okay?
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And then and then there's another thing I I I like to say um uh uh discipline breeds discipline.
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Uh, they say how do you put in time?
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And what I'm telling people when they want to train or something, I say the more you do something the more you can do of it.
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Discipline breeds discipline.
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You do something and then the more you're able to do it and the better you do it.
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And so and then they say, "Well, I just can't run a marathon."
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I say, "Don't run a marathon.
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Right now, I want you to just walk down the distance of two houses and walk back.
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Make it so easy you can't talk yourself out of it.
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The next day, walk the distance of three houses. Come back.
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Then the next day, jog down the distance and come back.
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And then eventually, your body starts adapting to the habit and those endorphins start getting released.
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And then after a certain period of time, it's like, "Will you get back in the house?
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Does it have to be a marathon?
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You know, so discipline breeds discipline.
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And perfect practice makes perfect.
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So, let's talk about your physical practice, the training.
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And I have so many notes here in front of me.
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It's an embarrassment of riches.
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As as as I have written down here, CBS producer David Reuben Turner's life story is too incredible for fiction.
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And there's there's a lot to that statement. We'll get back to.
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You mentioned the stunt work.
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You've flown on a trapeze, tightrope walks.
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You have Yeah, high falls.
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You've done it Cliff diving.
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You've done an incredible amount of physical cultivation.
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And I have I have a line here.
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So, on March 5th of this year, you will have not missed a workout in 49 years. True. All right.
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Why is training important to you?
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Why would you go to the trouble, as I have down here, in the '70s, there were no gyms when you were on tour, so you traveled with a wooden briefcase with 120 lb of weights inside.
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Sounds like a workout in and of itself.
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Why is it so important to you?
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Um, well, part of it is when I was growing up, I was always the second smallest or second smallest in my class. Mhm.
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And I would get beat up or I'd get pushed around.
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And um then we watched and we haven't really got off on this point yet. Yeah.
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At 9 years old, I started losing my sight. Right.
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My sister Lori, uh, who I call my genius sister, because she's brilliant.
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And I we both got scarlet fever.
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I was 9, 1963, she was 5.
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And that caused with for me within a matter of moments, I'm fourth grade watching the chalkboard and all of a sudden it just went blurred.
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It was like someone took the chalk the chalkboard and smeared the chalk. It was that sudden? that sudden.
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And the same thing with my sister.
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One minute uh in the she went from from full sight to legally blind.
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And um so now I'm we we were forced in second, third, and fourth grade to watch a movie called Lord of the Flies. Mhm.
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And and I still this day don't know why they made kids watch a horrifying movie like that.
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And what it was about was a group of kids stranded on an island. And the group of boys.
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They were all like between probably 8 to 12 years old, somewhere in that age frame.
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And there was one boy called Piggy. Mhm.
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And he was a chubby boy, and he had to wear glasses, and he had asthma.
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And they found out that they could use his glasses to make a fire.
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And because he was chubby, they called him Piggy.
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And so he was picked around, and he had asthma.
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And then and when I was 10 years old, I found out that I had asthma.
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All of a sudden I'm just deathly sick.
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Because we we were very poor.
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Our house literally was a structure sat on a ditch about a 6-ft a foot ditch.
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And my dad poured concrete down in that ditch to make my bedroom.
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And during the winter, I'd my bed would have 4 5 6 in of water under it, which means molds.
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And I was deathly allergic to molds.
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And I would just get extremely ill.
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And so I was now I'm blind, had asthma, and I was skinny.
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He was chubby Piggy was blind asthma, and he was chubby.
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And so I thought, I don't want to be a Piggy.
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I don't want to be a coward.
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And I was afraid I was going to be a coward because I was afraid.
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And I was afraid of getting beat up.
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And I was afraid when I'm walking down the street, uh guy named Leland, you know, picks a fight with me and and and I get hurt.
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Don Ferguson beat me up and uh others.
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Anyway, so I I didn't want that.
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And then there was another show that it affected my what kind of caused me to go off the charts the other direction was called Lost in Space.
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And there was a little boy on there, Billy Mumy, played Will Robinson.
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And there was a man on the show, Dr.
21:25
Smith, who was the man, the coward, hide behind a rock while this goofy-looking monster made out of papier-mache would come walking up and Billy Mumy would save the day, the little kid.
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And I thought he's brave and I was afraid of turning out like Dr. Smith.
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And then the third thing was Tarzan movies.
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They just see them walk across a tree going spanning two cliffs that maybe a hundred feet down, thousand feet down.
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And then there was always the guy that turn around and say, "Whatever you do, don't look down."
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And then there were the next guy would be the coward would LOOK DOWN AND GO SCREAMING to his death.
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And I was afraid I'd be that coward that would look down and and and panic and fall down.
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So I started just taking things to the outer limits as far as pushing myself.
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And I and and growing up there I had three three movies on the other side that affected me.
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One was uh Ben-Hur starring Charlton Hes- Charlton Heston.
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There was a scene in the movie where he's pulling the oars with his big bulging biceps.
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And that image of strength what you know, made me want to be stronger.
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I want to be strong I want to I want to be strong like him.
22:38
And another one was The Green Hornet starring Bruce Lee as as Kato. Kato.
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And you know, and I thought I want to kick like Kato.
22:51
And and the the third one was uh was uh uh one that really probably set my life on fire was James Garner in Maverick.
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He was the cool slick gambler and I wanted to be a card shark.
23:07
So those are the three things but that's really what started me off on taking things to the extreme.
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Whatever someone else did, whatever they benched, I was going to bench more.
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Whatever their split was, I got to where I could do a 200 degree split.
23:19
In fact, I there's even video out there I'm stretched across two chairs and I'll touch my head to the floor.
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And uh So anyway, I was I just had this thing of whatever someone else did, I had to top it.
23:32
Not that I was able to top everybody which I was not, but I on the top people in the top 1% and I've trained with some very world class athletes, you know, and I either trained them or trained with them and and uh and people had a hard time Frank keeping up with me.
23:52
Well, I mean you're you're still an extremely thick guy.
23:54
You told me before we started recording that you worked out at 5:00 this morning. Yeah.
23:58
Well, and and you understand this cuz you're an athlete yourself.
24:03
You know, that's that's another weird thing I I I do cuz it it wakes me up.
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It gets It gets the adrenaline going, the endorphins shooting and and cuz I had I had shows all week last week every day and and I flew in last night at 9:00 a. m. 9:00 p. m.
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and I thought, "Okay, I need to be on my on my best game cuz I'm meeting Tim Ferriss and we're going to be talking for 2 hours and I have been my voice was already worn from all the shows I've done and what's the best way?
24:36
Some first person says, "Rest, relax, get ready." Uh-uh.
24:42
I was in the gym and then all of a sudden I started at 5:00 and I It's 11 minutes after 7:00.
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I've been in here for 2 hours and 11 minutes.
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My ride's going to be here in 49 minutes.
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Dash to the down to fish tacos that my my made.
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She makes the best fish tacos anywhere on the planet, my wife Kim, and I down those things and then shower and here we are. And here we are.
25:03
And as as you mentioned, we we hadn't covered and hadn't talked about cited uh or the the other CBS, the uh uh is it how do Charles Bonnet syndrome. Charles Bonnet syndrome.
25:19
That's French and English is Charles Bonnet syndrome. Uh especially in Texas. Yeah.
25:25
And uh A lot of people have Bonnet's.
25:26
And I didn't and I and I didn't bring it up earlier very deliberately because I want people to understand that your incredibly deft technical mastery of what you do stands on its own head-to-head against anyone, period, full stop.
25:46
So, I wanted to make that that. Yeah, it's true.
25:50
And that's certainly been recognized by many people.
25:53
And I So, I didn't want to I certainly want to chat about these the Charles Bonnet syndrome, um but I didn't want to lead with it.
26:04
But but since since it came up uh and and uh we we chatted very briefly about this before we started recording.
26:15
Could you please talk to me about the red and blue spectrum?
26:22
Um because because I've I've heard you or I've and I've read you uh say that you you can see things or you see things that other people don't see.
26:31
And I'd love to just know what your sort of experience of reality is like. My world that I live in. Your world. Yeah.
26:38
First, let me explain what CBS, Charles Bonnet syndrome, is.
26:41
First documented 1760 by Charles Bonnet Charles Bonnet.
26:46
And um it's a very rare condition and Dr.
26:49
Oliver Sacks, he's a best-selling author, and sure Amazing author.
26:53
Yes, I'm sure you're familiar.
26:53
He has two books, one called Hallucinations, the other one called The Mind's Eye, where he goes into specifics on CBS, and he's probably documented more cases than anybody.
27:02
And up till 1990, there was only six documented cases.
27:06
And then he's documented six up to 1990? Yeah, 1990, uh-huh.
27:10
And then he's documented a few others.
27:16
And I'm probably I'm the most extreme case on the planet.
27:18
Most people what it First of all, let's kind of give you a picture view of what is CBS, Charles Bonnet.
27:26
And that's where you see a person that's blind and should see nothing will see sporadic colors or splatters or pieces of images or or just some visual things almost like hallucinations. Right. And they're sporadic.
27:40
In my case, I'm it's 100% 24/7, and it's not just in just part of my vision.
27:49
I see a 160° kaleidoscope of beautiful, vivid colors, patterns, shapes, every subconscious image you can imagine.
28:01
And I don't see them in the back of the brain like when you're dreaming or imagining. I look at them.
28:04
I see them in front of me.
28:06
I see them in external space, just like you're seeing me in external space.
28:12
an object that you perceive.
28:14
something I'm looking at it.
28:14
Right now, I'm in the blue spectrum.
28:15
And to explain the difference between blue and red, I have a a neuroscientist that was doing some uh interviewing me for some projects and stuff.
28:27
And he said the red spectrum, which is more geometric shapes, uh it's everything is First of all, there's a grid.
28:33
It's usually a grid like layers of bricks.
28:38
And they're always perfectly aligned, and they're perfect rectangle bricks laid out just like a brick.
28:43
This is in the red or in both? The This is the red. Okay.
28:45
And then there's it's always maroon, which is my favorite color.
28:47
One of my favorite color in the red spectrum.
28:50
So, the brick what would be the the gray mortar is actually maroon. And then the red bricks.
28:55
And in those bricks are all every geometric shape, circles, squares, triangles, stars, just every geometric shape you can imagine.
29:04
And in those shapes will be any every subconscious image that's floating around in my in my brain. Okay. That's the red spectrum.
29:12
He said that's the If I remember, that's the lower part of the brain.
29:16
And um and then the blue spectrum, which is I call it the right brain, analytical.
29:21
The other is the blue spectrum, which is very artistic.
29:25
There's no ran It's not It's It's totally random.
29:27
If you picture I call it like brush strokes. Brush strokes. I like brush strokes.
29:33
Well, but only There's only two breasts that I'm allowed to stroke. And they belong to Kim. Okay.
29:42
And I don't want any slaps from you. Okay.
29:45
So, brush strokes is what I Brush strokes, yeah.
29:49
You guys can see where my mind is right now.
29:51
I just got in a week from week a week away from my beautiful wife. Okay.
29:57
So, breast I did you get brush strokes.
30:00
I've been making Freudian slips all all week.
30:02
And the more Freudian the the better it is.
30:05
So, so in the blue you have these brush strokes. Brush strokes.
30:09
And then and then royal blue to blue to turquoise blue to sky blue to emerald green to lime green all the way down the the the the that spectrum.
30:18
And they're just random strokes.
30:20
And and then floating around is like I said, every subconscious image you can imagine.
30:26
And then just picture yourself underwater in a pool with the light coming in and the light spectrum breaking down like a prism. Right.
30:38
Breaks down light spectrum.
30:38
So, all these colors just floating around.
30:39
And it's All the images are two-dimensional, but they're layered three-dimensionally. Mhm.
30:46
If you picture that, so It's like panes of glass.
30:48
Yes, it just back and forth, you know, depth forward.
30:50
And and the thing about it is I can take any particular image um and I I probably I'm I won't I I won't get slapped, but she might go again.
31:02
And I I take a picture of image of my beautiful wife in her bikini. Mhm.
31:06
And I can, you know, take it, zoom it in, rotate it, you know, or or where I use it most is if I'm create designing a I I've built designed and built my own homes. Mhm.
31:19
And or like a patio deck.
31:19
And my wife can tell you I'm sitting in my my chair and I'm watching in full three dimension. Huh. Like a virtual reality.
31:27
I basically live in virtual reality.
31:29
And so my whole my my spectrum is my own computer.
31:32
So I wanted to design a a deck and I built this three-level deck and I was still counting.
31:39
I need a 4 by 12s post down 4 by 12 across there and then a 2 by 6s anchor in there and you'll watch me looking back and forth engineering this giant projects with a giant project with a thousand cuts.
31:52
It was three levels, stairways, hanging swings built in flower flower beds and um without a single piece of paper.
32:02
Then I tell my dad, okay, he was my cutter.
32:04
I said, this board has to be 192 and a quarter inches.
32:08
And and I and my dad is a genius.
32:11
My dad was a worked well he was one of my my role models, but but I can't tell him or my wife what I'm going to do because I can't explain a thousand cuts. Yeah.
32:22
What I'm doing is it's all in here.
32:22
And so then we would start putting it together and then he'll watch this whole thing come together.
32:28
He goes, now I understand what you say what you were talking about doing.
32:31
So that's one of the ways that I use it and probably the thing I use it all mostly is like I want to remember phone number.
32:37
I can write the number down in the air.
32:41
I'll see it floating in the air just like you'd see it on a computer screen.
32:44
My mind takes a picture of it and I have what's called an eidetic memory and then I just files away. And I bring it back up.
32:50
Um or when I practice it with cards, I will I do this every time I'm at a restaurant or when I'm people and I I'll have the table and I'm watching the move and I'm analyzing something I'm doing and I'll see it and my mind would create image and it's not flesh like you have.
33:08
It's more of a conglomeration of all kinds of of um geometric shapes or images to create the image of an arm, the the image of the cards.
33:21
So it's not flesh and blood colored in the same way you would see it.
33:26
But I do will see the thing the the image of the the constructed within my mind what I'm looking at and then I'll analyze it and I'll and I'll be in the and I'll see everything going on.
33:37
Yeah, there's a solid object between me and what I'm looking at. Right.
33:43
But yet here's the interesting thing.
33:43
If I turn like this, can't do it. If you turn your head?
33:48
If I turn my head, I have to be looking at the object.
33:49
Like my medicine cabinet's the example I have a friend who's a writer.
33:53
He thought this was interesting.
33:55
My medicine cabinet, I'm going, "Where is that Camp of the unique?"
33:58
Okay, and I used to see everything in my medicine cabinet.
33:59
I'm going down, ah, there it is.
34:01
And I'm seeing everything yet the door's closed. All right, okay.
34:07
But now if I turn like this way, I have to see it my mind.
34:09
I can't see it in front of me. Oh, wow.
34:13
That's kind of interesting. That's fascinating.
34:14
And that and that but anyway, so I I I consider a a real blessing that I have this strange condition and cuz I use it all the time. Yeah.
34:25
And um and I like I said, I I I consider myself Uh, very very blessed and and within seconds that you I I can shake someone's hand and I usually can tell their height, weight, um, characteristics about them and my mind will create an image of what I think they look like and my my sometimes they're totally off left field, but um, it'll create its own my own impression of that person.
34:50
And then when they're talking, I will see some strange-looking conglomeration of mouth moving, um, even though it's not necessarily flesh-colored, but it or flesh-looking or human-looking.
35:04
But it's a rep But it's a representation, yeah, of movement motion.
35:07
Well, if you think about it also, uh, for those people who are sighted, I mean, what they are perceiving they consider reality, but it's it's they have their own lens, you have your own lens and it's it's they're they're both representations in a way, if that makes sense. Mhm.
35:24
And uh, I wanted to ask a few follow-up questions with the the uh, eidetic memory, Mhm.
35:33
the photographic memory, is that something that you had partially or fully before losing your sight or is it something that was developed over time, a bit of both?
35:44
It was something I had beforehand.
35:44
Um, I remember when I was 5 years old in kindergarten and we were finger painting class. Mhm.
35:52
And I had a picture of a National Geographic image that I saw of a seascape.
35:58
And so all the other kids are just doing the finger painting their nose and their ears and their hair and their table and I come up with this seascape and I to this to this day, what is it?
36:09
60 years later, it's over 60 years later, I can still see the exact thing that I created 60 years later.
36:13
And it was, you know, start off with the you know, the the the ground and then I had seaweed.
36:21
Oh, I'm sorry, I touched your deck. Forgive me. Okay.
36:25
And seaweed going up and there would be a And this corner had a jellyfish with the things coming down, and a shark in the middle, and just different things that I that I replicated from an image I saw in a National Geographic book.
36:39
And and and so, from from the ages 5, 6, 7, 8, I was the best artist in the school. Mhm.
36:49
And I could, like I said, see a picture and I could pretty much replicate it.
36:53
And and then the problem then then when I you know, 9 and I had scarlet fever, then I I started losing that ability Mhm. to paint and draw.
37:02
That must have been really difficult, I would imagine.
37:03
I mean, how That was a very difficult, and that was probably where some rebellion took place.
37:12
I was shipped off to a special school where they had what it was called a VH room back then, visually handicapped. Mhm.
37:19
And now you say visually impaired, you know, politically much more polite than visually handicapped.
37:23
And I hated the word handicapped, and I despised the word blind when I was, you know, had to go to the school and my sister, Laurie, she only went there 1 year.
37:31
She got She rebelled so much, she said, "Put me back in a regular school."
37:36
She refused to continue to go.
37:39
Uh but my vision was worse than hers at the at the time.
37:41
And so, I She was able to get away with it, I was not.
37:43
And um Oh, so in the at the school, the best artist was a girl named Sharon Coleman. Mhm.
37:53
And she was the best artist.
37:53
Where I was always the best artist at Norco in 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th grade.
37:57
Now, all of a sudden, nobody knows who I am, nobody cares.
38:01
I'm Sharon, she's the one that does the best artwork.
38:02
And and so, there was a guy in the VH department, there was about a dozen of us that that And we go to It was a regular school, but they had a VH department, VH visually handicapped department.
38:13
And one of the guys in the VH room was a guy named Ruben Corral, who, because he was from Mexico, was like twice my size, and he was two two or three years older than I was, but he was in the same grade because he didn't have the opportunity to go to special school.
38:30
And, uh, he would just scribble. He couldn't draw at all.
38:33
So, and he got attention.
38:33
He got hey, hey, look at that.
38:35
He drew all this stuff good.
38:37
So, he got attention for just doing crap.
38:39
And so, I started doing crap.
38:42
I started sort of showing my skills the best I could.
38:44
I I started I just started going the other direction and just scribbling.
38:49
Although, I did do one three-dimensional project. Um, that Dr.
38:53
Um, uh, Sam Cumby, who was the teacher. Um, I did a sculpture.
39:01
And I still have it in my office.
39:01
You can still see it today.
39:02
Of, uh, of a of a Buddha monk.
39:06
And a bald head and a and, uh, anyway, and it was all Um, what what would the word um, uh, it was all properly proportioned.
39:16
And and and I got A in that for that project.
39:20
And that's one of the few things that I do I still have from that.
39:23
But, that was a three-dimensional thing. Why did you keep that? Because I got an A. Mhm.
39:30
Because it was Actually, I I I I'm not saying you shouldn't. I'm just curious.
39:34
because I did a good job.
39:34
But, here's that's also an astute question on your end because I there was other pieces I did and, uh, in high school I did a collage and and I I was just rushing to my art class cuz I could I could do stuff and if you got seven and a half points, you got an A.
39:55
And I could have my art projects done within the first month of the semester and I would get my A.
40:00
So, I did I could mess around after that.
40:01
And I did this one project and I don't even know what was To this day, I don't know what was so good about it.
40:08
But, we had a my teacher was, uh, Mr. Swenis.
40:11
His assistant, don't remember his name, but he went to San Diego State University.
40:15
He took my art project and entered it into a statewide college competition and it got first place.
40:24
And he gave me the ribbon, the blue ribbon for first place and they just put it on display in the hallway of the of the high school and on these those little slides with the locked doors, little locked windows and they and and then when I said, "Can I get my art project back?"
40:39
and they went there and it was it was gone.
40:40
No breaking, there was no glass broken.
40:42
So we we figured the the student that claimed it to be his that entered it obviously went off with it.
40:52
But but other projects after that I started I would I'd get my A, build my project, you know, especially the three-dimensional ones I was good at.
41:01
And then I would I would purposely sabotage them cuz you fire them in a kiln and and if you have something that has air in it it'll completely sealed it'll blow up.
41:09
So I'd make my project, get my grade on it and then when I'd have to go have it fired I'd purposely put in either a ball of clay with a hole in it that sealed air in it or build something in it so when it was fired it'd blow up. Why did you do that?
41:26
Cuz I just I I I was I was angered that I lost I was I was losing my vision and losing my ability to paint and draw and and so this was just one of the ways I was being ornery and just rebelling against my my loss.
41:43
So I would love to ask you about and this is very from the very first moment that I saw the documentary I've I've wanted to ask you about anger and rage because one of my first thoughts upon watching the documentary which was
41:58
very emotional for me to be honest was that any woman who ever dates me should have to watch this movie because it'll give her a better understanding of how consumed in a different for different reasons but consumed I was by anger or driven by it at the very least. How
42:16
How did you How did you relate to anger or what purpose did it serve for you then and and how do you relate to it now?
42:29
That's a big question, so you can break it up into any segments.
42:32
Yeah, at the time I tried just to describe how I dealt with some of my anger and that was self-destructive and I got into other self-destructive behavior and I used late '60s, beginning '70s and so for about 3 years drugs was a part of that as an act of rebellion.
42:52
And um and and and purposely not trying to do my best.
42:57
The only thing I did worked at I worked out was cards.
42:59
And I would play cards with people and I would uh I take their money.
43:08
And and and my drug my drug dealing partner named Doug Ferguson who died from hepatitis from dirty needles.
43:16
And um uh he would have me he would have me play cards against other drug dealers uh to cheat them or trick them out of their money and that's how we we supported ourselves and we uh well, we made our money to buy and sell. Right.
43:32
Um and so that was kind of uh I I actually that was kind of a power the only power that I had.
43:39
The rest of the time I was laughed at.
43:41
Um uh and and there would be times where we would be doing something drunk and then when I come come out of a stupor or blur, they'd be laughing at me.
43:54
And uh and and they was they were at first they were the only people that accepted me cuz they you know, I was This is the drug dealing crowd. the drug crowd.
44:02
the drug crowd. Except they don't we don't care if you can say, you know, come on over and uh we're the just the regular students were more discriminating towards some of us in the VH rooms and then and so the drug people they didn't care but
44:18
then when it got right down to it it was more of I was more of a tool of uh of their of amusement for them um and then then then then I I I met a guy and uh and then I'm going to get off on another little tangent here it was a you know a verse in the Bible said God created us in His image. And that always fascinated me in His
44:44
And that always fascinated me in His image.
44:47
And so I thought okay I'm in the image of God.
44:50
What did God take dirt and made a person?
44:51
God took God took dirt made eyeball.
44:54
God God took dirt and made a brain.
44:56
God took dirt and made a bird.
44:59
And uh and and I I remember watching an episode of uh of Kung Fu and they said "Who will teach me about the universe?"
45:08
"The universe will teach you."
45:09
And then and I thought well that's like saying the wall would teach me but who built the wall?
45:16
The wall you know who built the Statue of Liberty?
45:17
There wasn't a Statue of Liberty didn't build the Statue of Liberty.
45:20
So then I started thinking what what what me in the image of God okay God created a bird man took dirt and we created a jet. Mhm. God took dirt made eye.
45:33
We took dirt made a camera.
45:35
They're staring at us all over the place. Mhm.
45:38
God took dirt and made a brain.
45:38
We took dirt and made a computer.
45:40
What's the the chip in our computer?
45:44
It's basically sand dirt.
45:45
Just about everything in this room in one fashion or another came from dirt. Mhm.
45:50
And so I thought okay that means I can create.
45:54
And so um I went another direction.
45:58
I got heavily into the martial arts starting 19, uh, March 5th, 1971.
46:07
And, uh, my karate instructor was a man named John Murphy.
46:11
Let me pause you for one second.
46:12
So, what precipitated that 90-degree turn or that 180?
46:15
Was there a conversation or a particular day or what catalyzed What catalyzed that turn was I was with, um, some friends.
46:30
And they wanted to watch a movie called Fantastic Voyage, which was a movie about shrinking down a a a a ship, a submarine, and then sending it into a body guy's body to go into his heart to try to fix it, okay?
46:43
And they said, "Hey, the Fantastic Voyage is on.
46:49
Let's get some angel dust and, uh, watch the movie."
46:51
And then they and And so, I I realized I got to stop this.
46:58
And there was something out there saying, "You need to stop it or you're going to end up dead like Billy McCollum."
47:03
And I had a half a dozen Well, I had a half a dozen friends who've now OD'd and were dead.
47:07
And and I thought I if I don't stop this, I'm going to be next.
47:12
And I realized I need some help.
47:14
Anyway, so I went to I went to these people at this park, Wells Park, and I asked them if they had any angel dust.
47:20
They said, "We have something better." I said, "What's that?"
47:22
They said, "A relation with the creator of everything you see."
47:24
I said, "You mind if I sit down and tell me what you know?"
47:27
And they're the ones that told me that we're not here by accident, we're here by design, and that there is a creator.
47:32
And so, it was at that moment that I said I was going to I changed my direction. Turn around.
47:38
And then you mentioned the martial arts. Uh-huh.
47:42
And, uh, And John Murphy.
47:43
That was that was that was I'm a very I can every moment of my life is like a a video I can watch in pin in on every any exact image or moment.
47:54
And that was, uh, February 13th, '71.
47:58
You know, 3 weeks later, you know, March 5th, um my brother, who was 7 years younger than me, he was 9, and he was taking karate.
48:08
And uh and I wanted to take karate because I was tired of I would get I would get beat up.
48:12
I I'll get off on a little tangent.
48:14
I entered another art competition when I was 11.
48:20
And I was I had to have my nose like 2 inches from the canvas as I painted these three vases vases with proper shadow lights coming in. It got first place.
48:30
These two boys didn't like it that this blind kid got first place. And they called me Mr. Magoo.
48:35
There was a cartoon out that time with starring Jim Backus called Mr. Magoo.
48:38
It was this kind of this goofy sight impaired person that just went through life jolly just missing trains and planes, trains, and automobiles. And that was me.
48:48
And so they would say they'd flip the bird in front of my face and say, "Hey Magoo, how many fingers am I holding up?"
48:54
And while I was disfra distracted, friend picked the wallet out of my back pocket and then dangled it in front of my face and said, "Hey Magoo, got any money?"
49:03
And when I grasped for my wallet, he'd then throw it over my head to his friend behind me in a cool game of keep away.
49:09
And they kept Every time I turned around to grab it, they'd just keep going back and forth over my head.
49:12
And then finally one of them started literally slapping me across the cheeks with my own wallet wallet saying, "Got any money, blind blind boy?"
49:19
And the other kid jumped on my back, drove me to the ground, kicked me in the ribs, and they ran off laughing saying, "Thanks for the hot dog, Magoo." Cuz I had $3 in there.
49:27
For me, $3 was It was all my entire life savings, card playing, everything all rolled up in three bucks.
49:36
And so I was so upset about that.
49:40
And so that jumps forward to uh uh the martial arts is that where we were going to Yeah. Yeah.
49:48
And um anyway, so my brother was taking karate.
49:52
And so I I wanted to go down and they they gave him warning.
49:55
Well, you know, this guy can't see and and Murphy, he didn't care if you're blind, deaf, or dumb.
50:02
He'd beat He'd beat everyone equally. He was my sensei.
50:05
Sensei Jim Murray, he was a year ahead of Chuck Norris. He was a class of '57.
50:09
Norris was class started in '58.
50:09
And he opened up Murphy opened up his school in Tijuana in 1960.
50:16
And he was the first white guy who was called white guy Caucasian he was Irish to get a black belt in Japan.
50:21
In this particular system Wadokai, which is a kind of a cross between Shotokan and Taekwondo or you know, it combines hands and feet.
50:31
Where Shotokan strict Shotokan, which is the number one style, was really basically mainly hands.
50:37
Anyway, he um said, "Well, we'll take him. We'll take him."
50:41
And at first he told him, "Don't hurt him in the girl first in the girls."
50:44
I'd get beat up by the girls.
50:47
I'd be get beat up by the old ladies.
50:50
Ladies that we would Noel who would be their driver.
50:52
You know, old enough to be my mother and it was all I could do to keep from ended up on the ending up on the floor.
50:58
And so I realized, "Okay, I got to I got to start getting better at this."
51:05
And at that time I weighed 110 lb and I had my full height of 5'9".
51:11
And Murphy said, "Okay, once you start taking you need to start lifting weights cuz you got to put some meat on those bones."
51:16
So I started punching pushing weights and I went to Gene Fisher's gym.
51:22
And Fisher he held the world's record for the curl at that time in 1963, 221 lb. I'm 221 lb.
51:32
Recorded and 226 unrecorded.
51:32
And and of course he was in the 200 lb category.
51:39
And so at that time I weighed 130 130 lb. I got up to 130 lb.
51:41
And at 130 lb I could pull down 220.
51:44
And he would have to pull me down, lock me in, do my reps, lift me back up.
51:49
I could I was about 250 on the bench at that time at 130 lbs.
51:55
And And and then Murphy would say push me to point where I could do 500 push-ups in 12 minutes 9 seconds, which is my record, but it usually was 500 push-ups maybe 15 minutes.
52:07
Which was actually world world-class time.
52:09
The record I found I don't think I could do 500 push-ups in 15 days.
52:14
Yeah, I I I know that is a bluff on your end.
52:18
Everybody out there that just listened to Tim say that, Tim is an athlete.
52:20
Tim is probably just as crazy as I am.
52:23
He's being modest right now.
52:26
I'm just telling you because he doesn't want to speak for himself.
52:29
Listen to what I'm saying everybody.
52:30
Tim I I felt him out when we first got together.
52:34
And I mean that in a nice way.
52:37
I checked those forearms.
52:37
His forearms Popeye, I know jealous. Popeye you're jealous.
52:41
Olive Oil, he's over here. So 500 push-ups.
52:46
Thank you for saying that.
52:49
Yeah, and but Earning earning the 20 that I slipped you earlier before we recorded.
52:53
The world record in time was 1900 hours.
52:55
So I was world I was world-class time you know 15 in in 1/4 of the time 1/4 and 1/4 of the time.
53:01
So it was And then and that's when I travel around with that briefcase with 120 lb 20 lbs in dumbbells.
53:10
It would be broken apart, put together on the road, do my exercises and so on.
53:13
Anyway, so then Murphy says you can you need more weight.
53:16
And so he said tell him to take vitamins vitamins every day.
53:20
So I started taking vitamins.
53:21
And he said protein powders.
53:21
So I've from for the past 50 years almost 49 years every morning I throw everything under the sun.
53:28
I even throw my vitamin tablets in the blend and blend them up with with protein powder.
53:32
And then I came up with the best drink for if you want to you have two choices.
53:38
Burn up or work out like a mad man.
53:41
And I call it liquid hell.
53:45
And what it is, you take water as your base.
53:48
And then I put in Schiff's brewer's yeast, which really is tasty. Tastes bad.
53:52
I put in half a banana for potassium and three to four to six jalapeno peppers.
53:58
Blend it up and then yeah, you have two choices.
54:01
You either worked out or you just sweat just started pouring out your head.
54:05
And my my workout partner Jim Bowers who you probably saw in Del Rio, he was the one that was talking about riding on the back of my motorcycle telling me where to go.
54:15
And he said when he first started college, I said, "Okay, you have to have some liquid hell."
54:22
And he the first time he did it, he threw up in the sink.
54:24
And then I said, "You're not wasting that liquid hell.
54:27
You drink the rest of that."
54:27
And so he got it down and it and and he couldn't go through a final without having a his liquid hell because it stimulated his brain and his body.
54:37
Anyway, so uh But it's not for sissies. I'll just say that.
54:42
Anyway, so that's what I would drink to to just boost the the energy level.
54:46
And anyway, so I I finally put on some weight and then I remember 19 80 is when I broke 100 I broke 160 up to 160 lbs.
55:00
And then I kept pressing and I got up to I worked out with at Jim Doug McConnely who was Mr.
55:08
Universe at his place and he had I got up to 340 on the bench.
55:15
That's where I topped out at. And I weighed in at 168.
55:21
And today when I got my first black belt, my first degree black belt, and Murphy wanted the hardest test and it was considered the hardest test at the time.
55:30
You had to fight a 10-round bout with a fresh fighter each round, 10 three-minute rounds.
55:37
And he didn't care uh about He didn't want to deal with lawsuits.
55:40
So, most of the testing and training took place across the border of San Diego and Tijuana.
55:46
And so, that's where his school He had a school in the in the states and another main branch for you.
55:50
Is it true that you were offered an honorary black belt?
55:55
Yes, because I and you did not accept. No.
55:57
But to get my first belt, I had to fight one round, 3 minutes, and plus all the katas.
56:02
And the thing about katas because of my identity memory, I could memorize them in one day. Right. Yeah.
56:08
And in fact, when I got I I I when I got my fourth-degree black belt, I had a sixth-degree black belt kata that I learned in one day.
56:15
The guy who uh went through it, and then the next thing he sees it on film, he goes, "I can't believe you did it.
56:22
We just You just I just showed that to you."
56:24
Blah, blah, blah, and you know, just days before, you know.
56:30
And for those people who don't know, kata is a predetermined sequence of moves that you perform alone. Exactly.
56:36
Doing punches, kicks, blocks, uh counters, and so it's like a martial arts dance. Right.
56:42
So, a sixth-degree black belt kata would be like someone being shown a sort of extremely complex halftime performance at the Super Bowl dance routine and then being able to replicate it shortly thereafter.
56:57
Perfectly perfectly explained, exactly, Jim.
56:59
And so, I I guess the katas and all that stuff down overnight, right off the bat.
57:04
But it was the fighting because to let you understand how I was seeing at the time, cuz I had some vision.
57:10
At that time, my teens and 20s, my vision was measured at 20 over 400, 20 over 450, with no center vision, cuz my macula, which is the center of the eye, was gone.
57:21
Okay, so there's no macula.
57:23
That's your forward vision.
57:23
So, if you just picture yourself, there's a hat in front of your face.
57:27
Wherever I turn my head, there's a hat blocking that part of the okay? With me? Yeah.
57:34
Out of the corner of my eye was 24 450.
57:36
So, 2200 is legally blind.
57:40
2050 is You have to have at least 2050 to drive.
57:44
So, out of the corner of my eye, that's where I would see the images or shadows of my opponent.
57:47
And so, I'd always be looking at you like cockeyed.
57:51
I was wondering about that, because I noticed that in the footage from the documentary. Mhm. Yes. Yeah. Got it.
57:56
So, you're looking out of your peripheral vision.
57:58
Yes, because I had no forward vision at all.
58:00
And uh and that's how I knew when I was looking at people at that at that time.
58:04
Now, I have no vision at all. Right.
58:06
But, at that time, if I if I couldn't see anything, I knew I was looking right at you.
58:11
Which was Anyway, so um because my so, first first belt, yellow was one fight.
58:16
Green belt, uh I had five 2-minute rounds, five bouts, five rounds, two with a fresh fighter, 2-minute rounds.
58:24
And uh on a scale of 1 to 10, I trained, I practiced, I and I thought, "Okay, uh I figure it's going to be a maybe a four, five, or six."
58:33
It turned out to be a 20.
58:35
It was beyond my worst nightmare.
58:39
And then it was August 2nd, 1972, and it was over 100° outside, and our dojo was in Tijuana, as I said.
58:48
And it was a solid block brick block cement block building.
58:54
No windows, no air conditioner, not even a fan.
58:59
Wood floor, scratched up wood floor.
58:59
And whenever they would have tests, all the It was like blood sports, like cockfights.
59:07
And so, all the sadistic people would come out to watch whenever they hear that the gringos are going to be coming up, and there's going to be some fights.
59:14
And so, John Douglas was testing for his black belt that day, and I was testing for my green belt.
59:18
And I was the I was the I was the pre-show before the big show. Right. The warm-up act.
59:25
Well, I was the I was the I was the warm-up act.
59:26
And so, get out there thinking and and and it was because of we all crammed into these little thing the humidity factor was in the in the '90s.
59:33
So, before I even start I'm pouring sweat.
59:39
I was gasping for breath as soon as I did my first set of kata.
59:43
Then I did my defense moves.
59:43
I was already gasping and then I started my first round and right before we started Murphy's the rule was we would respect each other's head.
59:52
If you don't hit me in the head face, I won't hit you in the face.
59:56
Body's open target, no limit.
59:56
Okay, groin shots, everything the way we would respect each other's knees.
1:00:00
No knee shots, everything else is open.
1:00:02
If you hit me in the face, then the face becomes an open target.
1:00:07
And so, um Murphy said, "Now, if these guys start hitting you in the face, don't think about it. Just keep fighting."
1:00:12
And at that time I thought, "What?
1:00:14
I thought we were going to mark our shots to the face."
1:00:16
And within the first three first few seconds of the first round, bam bam bam, three shots bam bam bam right in my face.
1:00:22
And I'm going, "Oh my god."
1:00:25
They you know, they I'm I realized I was fighting for my life cuz they didn't like us gringos down there.
1:00:30
And everything was just set in you know, discriminated against there are the black clan which were the black fighters, black federation and and the and the and the Mexican fighters and the gringos. Right.
1:00:41
And uh And so, I you know, the first round I and I'm just gasping for air.
1:00:45
Second round, this guy watched the Bruce Lee movie of Enter the Dragon or no, it was before that Fist of Fury where he does a step up heel kick, spins around with a heel kick.
1:00:55
I catch the one I wow, I blocked that.
1:00:56
Boom, only getting nailed with the with the other one coming around the other way.
1:01:00
Third round, this guy would like knees.
1:01:01
I kept getting knees in the groin.
1:01:03
Fourth round, um the guy's was even stance.
1:01:06
He switched stances on me, grabbed my front hand, went right by me and bam, right in my left eye.
1:01:12
Caught an overhand right right hand punch and pretty much knocked me out.
1:01:17
And now now I'm seeing enough I'm just seeing stars.
1:01:19
And Murphy says, "Wipe off the blood. Don't think about it. Keep fighting."
1:01:23
And I'm just holding myself up against the bathroom and I could barely I couldn't even curl my hands up at at that by this point.
1:01:28
And uh so then the fifth round was probably my best round because I was really a standing I was just a standing I was virtually unconscious.
1:01:37
And then they yelled Marosa his wife yells "Tiempo!"
1:01:41
which means time in Spanish.
1:01:44
And the second she wrote "Tiempo!"
1:01:44
is when I hit the ground.
1:01:47
So I got it by 1 second and then I was so exhausted and have an asthma attack.
1:01:53
I I I I had to I had now I had to stand up because I had to bow out.
1:01:57
As soon as I bowed out I hit the ground again.
1:01:59
Now everybody wants to congratulate me. I'd stand up again.
1:02:04
And we weren't allowed to have water.
1:02:06
And so I crawled to the bathroom and John Douglas will tell the story he's but Murphy's probably going to be mad at me for telling it.
1:02:11
And when he came to he says, "That's not the sink you're drinking out of, Rick. That's the toilet."
1:02:19
I'm drinking out of a TJ TJ toilet. TJ toilet.
1:02:22
And and I go, "I don't care. I was so dazed." And I got gonorrhea. Oh, no. Yeah.
1:02:28
But anyway, so that was green belt.
1:02:31
So then I then the brown belt was 10 two-minute rounds.
1:02:32
And imagine that and then of course on that one I oh I trained like a mad dog cuz I wasn't going to have that last experience.
1:02:41
So I made that and then from brown to black was such a jump it took me another 10 years before I was able to take on the 10 fighters.
1:02:48
And just to give you a quick run down of what my workout looked like to prepare for it.
1:02:54
I'd warm up with a 4-hour weight workout. Okay. 4-hour 4-hour.
1:02:57
And I would start minimum weight all the way up to maximum weight and I'd do as many Now I get to the maximum I'd do weight lift as many times as I could with a few seconds many times as I could then I'd slowly off just 5 lbs at a time from 300 from 300 lbs 395 times 295 290 all the way down to where I had just the bar, which was a 45-lb bar.
1:03:20
And uh And then that And I do that with every muscle group.
1:03:23
And then I would do 500 kicks on the heavy bag, you know, 10 roundhouse kicks with this leg, 10 with this leg, 10 10. Do 100 of that.
1:03:33
Then I'd do 10 side kick with this leg, 10 side kick with this leg, 10 side Another 100.
1:03:37
10 back turn kicks, 10 side Whatever.
1:03:39
Uh step over cross side kick Whatever.
1:03:41
Did five different kicks 500 times.
1:03:43
Then my uh trainer, he would have a It looks like a motorcycle seat with a bag, and he would hold it and uh and with his hand, and then I would have to 100 kicks in 3 minutes.
1:03:53
And so I was simulating the three rounds.
1:03:56
So I'd just bam bam bam bam bam. Punch kick punch kick.
1:03:59
Mainly kicking cuz that uh that that exhausts your oxygen supply faster than punching.
1:04:04
That's why in kickboxing matches you they're required to throw a minimum of of I think six kicks or eight kicks.
1:04:11
And that's because after you start getting tired, you just want to punch.
1:04:14
Takes a fraction of the oxygen that it takes to lift these big muscles up in the air.
1:04:18
And so I do that and I take a First I take a 10-second break.
1:04:22
Do another 100 10 Another 10 20-second break.
1:04:24
100 I do 1,000 I do it 10 times.
1:04:26
It'd be another 1,000 kicks.
1:04:29
From there I would do a 5-mile run.
1:04:29
And I lived in San Diego and those here they had big hills there.
1:04:33
And I would One of the hills was a mile and a half down, mile and a half back up.
1:04:38
And when I got to the top, I would sprint the distance of a house and then run the distance. Sprint run sprint.
1:04:44
And then I would do 10 uh quarter-mile wind sprints. And then I'd throw up.
1:04:52
And then I'd go do my shows and I'd go perform. I'd perform at night.
1:04:54
Then every other day I would go rounds.
1:04:56
You know, Murphy Douglas would have me uh go you know, do uh five rounds, you know, five rounds building up to it.
1:05:03
And sometimes it's two on one cuz you don't have time to to rest at that.
1:05:05
And but that's that was And I I sustained that particular discipline for eight months and Douglas said I over trained.
1:05:14
You know, I went too long, but my problem was asthma.
1:05:16
Cuz you know, being an asthmatic, you know, if I sometimes fear can trigger an asthma attack and that's what happened on that green boat that I described.
1:05:28
And you can't fight if you can't breathe.
1:05:29
And so I had to train my mind to not become afraid.
1:05:33
You know, fear can paralyze.
1:05:35
You know, we can be so worried about doing the wrong thing that we do nothing.
1:05:40
There's actually an English proverb that says, "A man that's afraid to make a mistake is unlikely to make anything."
1:05:47
In other words, totally worthless. Fire the bum.
1:05:51
Fear of failure, when left unchecked, can actually lead to the failure we fear.
1:05:55
And so I I just started, like I said, putting myself in positions and conditions to help my mind overcome those effects.
1:06:02
And I did things I we just talked about the physical.
1:06:07
I did mental things like eating live cockroaches, live grasshoppers.
1:06:14
Um Uh the most absurd things.
1:06:17
Rotten fish guts that sat in the sun for a week to and doubt you know, you saw the way I ate the I chomped down on the eyeball of the mahi-mahi.
1:06:26
And the thing is, if you don't have if you if you can't take it, you know, the person will throw up.
1:06:31
And the people that were watching almost throw up.
1:06:34
When one of when I did the guts, they did throw up.
1:06:36
Don't try this at home, kids. Don't try this at home.
1:06:40
This is a closed track with a trained professional. Yeah.
1:06:42
It was but it was just to train my mind to be able to take whatever is being dished out.
1:06:48
If I can control my mind and body, then I I can make it.
1:06:50
And that triggers another thought real quick.
1:06:55
I'm going to go back to the Charles Bonet syndrome, Charles Bonnet, and how how that can create strength.
1:07:01
One of the ways I use it the most, and that haven't even mentioned, is in training as what I um I can do tremendous numbers of reps.
1:07:11
When I took my fourth degree black belt test, I was in my late I was 47 or 48.
1:07:15
I lifted 222,888 lbs using 3,190 reps.
1:07:23
And the 24-year-old 220-lb black belt who trained alongside me could not do 50% the number of reps or weight.
1:07:28
And that's because I don't get lactic acid build up because I would combine the mind with the body.
1:07:36
Now, you see weight people do this.
1:07:38
They're like Yeah, they're trying to convince their body to do it.
1:07:43
You follow what I'm saying? Yeah.
1:07:44
When you combine mind and body together, they're not doing that.
1:07:48
And what I would do is when I get to the point of exertion, and I would then transfer I'd use my V CBS I I like a on on a bench press.
1:07:56
I would see a cable or on the bench press.
1:07:59
I'd see a cable going up, a cross of it, across two pulleys.
1:08:03
On the other end is a grill-shaped thing on Arnold Schwarzenegger, grilling it together, pulling on that thing, pulling that weight up.
1:08:09
And I would focus on that image pulling the weight up.
1:08:11
And during that moment, I would no longer feel the stress as my muscles continue to press.
1:08:18
And I have the exercises for every I have a mental visually exercise I'll use for each exercise, like the quadriceps extension.
1:08:25
You know, you're you're in exertion when you're straightening your legs, right?
1:08:28
You're And so, what I would see in front of me is a big giant rubber band.
1:08:33
When the band is stretched down when when the weights are down, and then it would it would when the it would the rubber band would go up and it would just go wide, and that's when it's pulling the weight up.
1:08:42
So, I'd watch it, and I would see it pulling the weight up.
1:08:45
So, when I'm doing the exertion is when I'd feel it the least.
1:08:48
Or another image, like when I'm doing a hammer like I'm laying on my back doing a tricep.
1:08:51
I would see a hammer falling, okay?
1:08:54
And when the hammer's falling, is the least amount of effort, right?
1:08:58
Cuz the hammer the way the hammer's going down.
1:09:00
Well, when I'm like this, so I'd see the hammer falling and but that's that's when the tricep is being engaged.
1:09:05
And I taught my wife I when you know, I taught my wife this.
1:09:12
And and within a month's time so what she would do I'd say, "Well, look at yourself in the mirror, your reflection."
1:09:17
And when you get to the exertion like example like a bench military press.
1:09:22
If the point of exertion so you're at you want to do we always do sets of 52 reps.
1:09:27
And when you get to a 48 with it then transfer that see that image of that if reflection pulling those weights up and then and she got to the point where she increased her muscular endurance 30% in a month time and she was already in top shape. Oh, so.
1:09:46
And and in fact now I can give you an example of that if you if we were standing if you want to stand up. Mhm.
1:09:52
Um but I would like I and of course now I'm I have almost 66 so I don't know if I I used to have a demonstration that I would do.
1:09:59
Where I would bend the arm of the person and that is not there's only one person's arm I was not able to bend in doing doing this demonstration for 40 years and no one has ever bent my arm.
1:10:09
But if you want to stand up I can I don't know if this is Sure, let's try it.
1:10:15
So but I'm not going to try to bend your arm because I'm because of surgery I got on this side of me. All right.
1:10:20
I see you look at those muscles.
1:10:23
Now and usually I put myself up against a back so I'm pinned in.
1:10:25
Now I'm going to have you put your hand arm right here. Okay. Your other arm here. Okay.
1:10:29
Not on the wrist I want to put wrist and and your job this way all you're going to do is just bend this little elbow here. Okay. Okay, go ahead. Go ahead.
1:10:40
And look I'm not I'm not using Go. Come on. Come on.
1:10:44
I'm not and I'm not doing any I'm not using any strength at all. Look at my hand. Totally relaxed.
1:10:47
Now I'll tell you how I did it. Okay.
1:10:52
It's once again it's creating mind and body together.
1:10:55
What I did is I envisioned my arm as a fire hose, Yeah.
1:10:59
shooting out that fire hose a thousand gallons of water a minute.
1:11:01
You can't bend a fire hose, I'm sorry. Right?
1:11:06
If you So, think about a fire hose when the fire's when the water water's shooting, you know how to bend a fire hose.
1:11:10
So, I get that image in my mind.
1:11:12
I'm just shooting that fire hose and and I've never had anyone ever bend my arm and yet you without that until I show them they get they learn how to do that then I can bend their arm but before that But anyway, that's just kind of a little side side note but how I've used my CBS to create a lot of strength and I also used it in my training with the cards.
1:11:32
When I would train when I when I analyze moves and break them down.
1:11:37
And and what I would do I'm just kind of transitioning into something else here randomly but what I would do and why I was able to put in so many hours is I would analyze the move.
1:11:47
So, okay, I want to I want a second deal a certain way.
1:11:49
So, I'd analyze the move. Okay.
1:11:51
Okay, I want the I want the I want no leaking and so I'd analyze what I want to do and I'd practice it in slow motion till every exacted element of the muscle memory was firmly embedded in my brain.
1:12:08
Okay, then I would turn it into a subconscious habit.
1:12:10
We all have habits where we're tapping a pen, right? Tapping our feet.
1:12:18
That's idle energy wasted.
1:12:18
It's like the an engine of a car running going nowhere, just idling.
1:12:22
That's idle energy expelled, right?
1:12:25
So, what I do is I turn I learn to take all that energy and funnel it into just my hands and what's in my hands.
1:12:34
And so, that's why I would I would take it and I'd turn it into a subconscious habit and that move I would then sit there and practice it hundreds of times.
1:12:42
I'd do it I'll thousands of times, tens of thousands of times, hundreds of thousands of times.
1:12:49
Then maybe two or three years later I'll look down and go "By golly, I got it."
1:12:54
And then and then some of the things Vernon would say, "That's not possible to do."
1:12:58
And and and and so I would figure it out, analyze it, show it to him, and then and then he'd go, "I don't understand how you can do that."
1:13:07
Well, what I loved discovering in the process of prepping for this conversation, and I want to put a button in the black belt test a second, but that Vernon would describe to you the ideal of how something would be performed even though
1:13:25
uh in reality he hadn't seen it executed that perfectly, and you with your powers of visualization and the way that you would digest his teaching would then go and develop the ability to do what he thought could not be done. At least that's that's my understanding.
1:13:42
At least that's that's my understanding. That's exactly right.
1:13:44
And and he did that for I had the privilege of being with Professor Vernon for 17 years.
1:13:48
In those first five to six 10 years, like you said, he would describe to me.
1:13:55
He'd say, "Richard, this is the way it has this has to be done.
1:13:57
Your hands have to be natural.
1:13:59
You don't want this deep grip when you're going to deal a second or a bottom.
1:14:03
Your fingers need to be on the sides because it's more natural.
1:14:08
That's more of the way you're going to see a your your general person in the public hold a deck of cards.
1:14:13
And so you don't want to create any unnatural suspicion by your actions."
1:14:17
And so he would tell me, "Okay, you have to be able to do with those fingers on the side."
1:14:22
And so okay, fingers on the side.
1:14:24
And you don't want you don't want any of this action here.
1:14:28
So So I'd practice with my hand on the table uh without moving it.
1:14:31
And so I would take the pieces what he said and I would practice it.
1:14:37
And he would actually tell me he'd say he'd say, "Feel my hands.
1:14:39
Feel the position of my hands right now."
1:14:41
And I'd feel his hands, okay, got it, got it. Okay, oh okay, I got it.
1:14:45
So I'd see the picture in my mind of what his hands were showing me, but he never did it because it's an action.
1:14:52
I really couldn't see him do the action because of my hands are getting the way of him executing the action.
1:14:57
But, I knew the action of what he was showing.
1:14:59
So, in my mind I would see his hands, visualize what he said, "This is the way it should be done."
1:15:05
And then I would come up with it and create it.
1:15:09
And then the next time he would see me, he'd go, "Larry, LARRY, COME HERE. WATCH THIS. WATCH THIS. LOOK AT THIS. WATCH THIS. PERFECT ACTION. PERFECT ACTION."
1:15:16
You know, he'd get all excited, have all the other card guys come over and go, "Watch the perfect weather. Perfect weather."
1:15:21
Larry Anyway, Larry is one of my critics at the time.
1:15:24
And but we became a good friend. Same with Tony Giorgio.
1:15:29
But, so that's what he would do is he tricked me.
1:15:31
And it was only till years later that he told me he made them up.
1:15:35
He just wanted to see what this obsessed kid would come up with.
1:15:38
And and then that's why my work is kind of as most 99.
1:15:43
9% of the gamblers and card men out there will tell you it's unique and separate from the way any other person handles the cards.
1:15:52
And I want to tie one one loose end with the black belt test just to flash forward because we we covered a lot of it, but 10 fresh fighters, 10 rounds, you end up with a broken arm at at some point. The seventh round. In the seventh round.
1:16:09
So, you're fighting with a broken arm.
1:16:13
There's footage of this, of course, in the documentary, which I encourage everybody to see.
1:16:17
And you get your black belt.
1:16:21
There was coverage of this experience.
1:16:23
Of course, there were there were some cameras, but also there's a piece in was it the LA Times? LA Times.
1:16:28
Now, why did you My understanding is you did not you did not like the piece you did not like the headline. Why is that?
1:16:36
Well, cuz they used the word blind man earns black belt.
1:16:38
And at that time I was very stubborn.
1:16:41
And um I was just stubborn and probably self-absorbed.
1:16:45
And I wanted my work to stand on its own.
1:16:48
And I wanted to earn it the way Terry Crook, John Douglas, and the other his top other black belt uh fighters did.
1:16:57
That's why when they offered me an honorary black belt, he says he he said, "You put in your time. You put in your lumps."
1:17:02
I said, "No, I want to do it the way you did."
1:17:04
And then that's when I started the training like I described earlier.
1:17:07
But it took me 10 years and uh 13 years and 3 months and 5 days from when I started to when I finally got it from beginning to soup nuts.
1:17:15
And um but anyway, um um uh the fact that they had to put the word blind man earns black belt, it to me it was like you I don't like the theme handicap makes good.
1:17:26
I want the theme Okay, I just made good because I did it.
1:17:31
And then and and to be perfectly honest with you, I kept telling people, "I want to do it they way they did it."
1:17:38
And people would say, "You but you didn't." And I go, "Yes, I did."
1:17:39
And it was literally, Tim, within the last 6 months that someone said something that I understood what they said.
1:17:47
When they said, "I didn't do it the way they did it."
1:17:51
I did it way the way they couldn't have done it. Yeah.
1:17:55
They weren't sight impaired when they did it.
1:17:56
I was I never understood what they were saying because I was so pig headed about I wanted I wanted to do it the way they did it.
1:18:05
But then when you flip it, I I I finally got the message.
1:18:08
I did it in a way that that they It was very unlikely that they or anyone else would have had a hard time doing if they could have done it at all.
1:18:19
Oh, probably uh next to impossible if not impossible.
1:18:22
And I want to dig into the visualization because it seems to be such a superpower.
1:18:30
And I might ask you what you consider to be your superpowers.
1:18:33
But this this this visualization and the CBS and the uh eidetic memory that you mentioned really seem to coalesce to give you something incredible abilities.
1:18:46
Uh whether that's the feats of strength or work with the cards.
1:18:54
I You mentioned earlier that the way you see things when you're scanning or planning the construction the design of construction of a three-story uh patio or deck for instance is different from dreaming.
1:19:10
And so that begets the question, what is dreaming like for you?
1:19:15
Oh, very good very good question.
1:19:15
Uh cuz you know like like you were saying I see my subconscious in external space.
1:19:21
So um you know and it's just a constant uh stagnant situation of all these colors patterns just there until I want to bring them into play.
1:19:34
And it doesn't matter if it's day night if my eyes are open or closed I see the exact same thing with my eyes covered up in a vault uh the I'll see these vivid bright colors when there's absolutely no way of light getting in.
1:19:52
Now when I dream in my dreams I'm never sight impaired.
1:19:56
And I see I dream in full color with audio and visual and I see perfectly.
1:20:02
And everybody I see in those dreams is perfectly clear. Mhm.
1:20:06
Which I you know that that uh someone brought that to my attention in some questions that I was asked.
1:20:10
And uh and I thought well I I guess that's kind of unusual but yeah I'm uh I'm never like I said part of the dream is never that I'm part sight impaired nor do I see any of the CBS uh symptoms in any of my dreams.
1:20:28
Now if I wake up in the middle of the night say um and I had to take some Tylenol or something from some surgery.
1:20:35
I've had 24 surgeries from all my high impact living.
1:20:40
And, um, medication, when I wake up would turn everything into a metallic colors and usually, a lot of times, it's purple.
1:20:49
This is if you wake up in the middle of the night.
1:20:50
Middle of the night on after taking some kind of medication from some kind of a injury that I'm on.
1:20:55
Medications turn it metallic and it turns it usually a purple, which is not is not a pretty purple to me. I don't like it.
1:21:06
You mentioned maroon was one of your favorite colors.
1:21:08
And then royal blue on the blue spectrum.
1:21:10
What other favorite colors do you have?
1:21:12
And did you have them before losing your sight or did you develop them afterwards?
1:21:16
Uh, I probably wasn't aware of a favorite colors before Right.
1:21:20
Um, so much as I am now because I see them all the time and and the different shades depending on the time of year, depending on the particular day.
1:21:30
Uh, sometimes it's just really vivid blues and I just it's just beautiful sometimes when I'm out walking with my beautiful wife Kim and, uh, I my my CBS will create a skyline.
1:21:42
Okay, in other words, the things will be darker here and I feel like that that's the skyline and then it'll be a lighter, uh, shades to create give the image of, uh, you know, earth sky. Okay?
1:21:58
And then and then I go in and I have to ask my wife, is it still light out?
1:22:02
Cuz it it it will stay there and sometimes it's late in the night and I can't get that the I can't get it over.
1:22:09
Sometimes it does can't bother me because I want that to go down because it's now night time.
1:22:15
Um, so there are there are some, uh, times that it will be a bit of a distracting sight. Mm.
1:22:22
What's, uh, I have as a note to ask.
1:22:22
I didn't want to get any of the details beforehand, but a note to ask you about your experience of wind. Ah.
1:22:31
That's a fun I I can see the wind blow.
1:22:35
Whenever I'm walking down the street with my with with Kim or whatever, if the I will of course I automatically see the images of of trees, but they're more like clouds and they're and they'll be a green shapes and colors to to replicate give image of of trees.
1:22:53
Okay, but whenever blows, everything all my all my visualization things that I see will go with that wind. They will gust.
1:23:00
If it gusts, they'll move a little bit more.
1:23:02
I if I do this, everything just now just went If you tap jerk If I tap my ties I have ties higher than I had.
1:23:10
Ju- everything just jerked over and went back straight.
1:23:12
Just weird little things.
1:23:15
Like when I go I'm I'm in a pool.
1:23:17
My eyes are closed the whole time.
1:23:18
Cuz I don't I don't I don't have need to need have need my eyes open when I'm swimming.
1:23:22
I don't have to worry about the chlorine and stuff. Right.
1:23:25
And so when I'm above the pool, there there's a a certain hue.
1:23:29
The level In other words, a a level of brightness of the color.
1:23:32
When I go under the water, I actually see myself going under water and the hue changes.
1:23:36
They It deepens like putting on sunglasses. Right.
1:23:42
Uh sunglasses off, sunglasses on.
1:23:42
And even as I made that image my eyes are closed, I just all of a sudden things went darker and lighter.
1:23:47
I can pretend that I'm opening and when I open and close my eyes, it will the hue is like uh pulling down a shade that has a sun block.
1:23:58
Not a sun block, but the sunglasses would be the best way to describe the all is what the hue changes and then now if I just pretend that I'm my eyes are all closed all the time, I'm pretending I'm opening and closing my eyes, it'll do the same thing.
1:24:13
And I don't know what relevance that had to anything, but it's just these little games.
1:24:17
This is just a conversation between friends.
1:24:19
Nobody Nobody listening or watching.
1:24:22
Uh So, I'm just following my own interest.
1:24:25
And I want to talk about uh the enjoyment of not relaxing.
1:24:30
That's more said uh with a smile, but when we took a little break to have some water, uh you said, "To me relaxing is not relaxing."
1:24:43
And you talked about how being told to relax or asked to relax is like being punished and put in the corner for misbehaving at school uh for you.
1:24:53
In that case, given your obsessive-compulsive dedication to training, to card mechanics, to uh movement, how do you replenish?
1:25:05
What What activities do you find recharge your batteries?
1:25:12
And maybe you could just elaborate on to me relaxing is not relaxing. Okay. Yeah.
1:25:18
Uh and I'm going to bring up a friend of mine who's like a brother. His name is Luke Corum. Mhm.
1:25:23
He was the director of the film Dealt that you mentioned.
1:25:26
And and I'll just say something quick about the film. Mhm.
1:25:31
If it wasn't for Luke, in particular, but I say 80% Luke and then Bradley and Russell, the producer and the writer, but Luke was the one that just had the creativity.
1:25:41
If if I if they would have let if they would have listened to me, and they listened zero to me, they did, that I would have screwed up the film.
1:25:51
The The brilliance of that film is I I lay it at the feet of the director, Luke.
1:25:55
And he would tell me and he actually lived with me.
1:25:57
He had his own place in my house when at certain times, Luke's room.
1:26:01
And I never have my Many times I didn't know if the cameras were on or off.
1:26:05
And he would say, "Well, let's chill."
1:26:08
You know, and you know, which I found out was a word for relaxing.
1:26:11
And chill, I don't want to chill. What is this chill? It's not fun. And I said, "Relaxing?
1:26:15
For me, relaxing is not fun.
1:26:17
Relaxing is like when I was a kid and I was being punished and my my parents as a pleasure I'd have to stand in the corner for an hour and just stare at the corner.
1:26:25
To me, chilling is not fun.
1:26:27
Chilling, relaxing is not fun.
1:26:29
To me, relaxing is adventure."
1:26:32
And I I would tell people and I would I would tell Luke, I'd say, "Don't worry about the end result.
1:26:37
When the film is done, it's going to be a piece.
1:26:42
It'll be what it is and it will be finished. Enjoy the journey. Okay?
1:26:49
You And look at every obstacle and every challenge and every hurt and pain that you come across as part of the adventure of the journey.
1:26:58
When you read a book, you don't want a book that Oh, he went and he entered this race and he won and then he entered that one, no trouble he won, and he climbed this mountain and he won. Uh That's boring.
1:27:11
You have to have antagonist, protagonist, and you have to have challenges, you have to have things that you have to overcome.
1:27:18
So, I would tell people, whatever the situation is, look at it as part of the adventure.
1:27:22
I know my livelihood almost came to an end 5 years ago. Well, multiple times.
1:27:28
Like I said, I've had 24 surgeries.
1:27:30
I had to recount them just last week when I went Am I at 23 22 23 or 24?
1:27:34
I realized I've had I have two steel knees from all the years of kicking.
1:27:39
I took a shot here, roundhouse kick here.
1:27:41
Uh At first I did surgery and finally had to be replaced.
1:27:46
And just, you know, millions of kicks, just fighting did them in.
1:27:47
I've had five hernia surgeries.
1:27:51
I've had I did a backflip off my front porch landing on my fifth disc of my back on my back on the brick, drove it out my belly button.
1:27:58
I've had three back surgeries.
1:27:59
And uh And then fortunately what finally and they and that's so complicated they just doctors it's just they have a hard time with backs.
1:28:07
And then I they have this thing called a neurostimulator Medtronic makes and I have that and it short circuits the pain from the back to your brain. Amazing.
1:28:16
Ever since that like my wife said, "Give her life back."
1:28:20
We have We have this table available. We have some cards.
1:28:25
Uh would you like to like to show anything or do anything? Oh, yeah.
1:28:28
You have a deck of cards there for yourself, right? Shuffle them up. All right.
1:28:32
We'll see this how how amateur the shuffle can be here.
1:28:36
Yeah, you just do it with shuffle two hands. Well, then use one. Yeah.
1:28:39
I just showed you All right. Okay. All right. We're good to go. Switch decks with me. All right. Okay. Here you go.
1:28:48
Now, in poker you've heard of like wild cards like deuces are wild.
1:28:54
Baseball have multiple wild cards.
1:28:54
Other games I'll just cut a card that'll be the wild card.
1:28:57
Just cut off half the deck.
1:28:59
I'm going to move this one card left over here. I can Oh, All right. There you go. Okay.
1:29:04
Just cut the deck in half here. All right. Tell me when you got it. Okay.
1:29:08
And just to make it more random, just say any random number three, four, five, seven, anything you want. Six. Six. 1 2 3 4 5 6. What's that card? Queen of diamonds.
1:29:17
So, the queens will be the wild card, okay?
1:29:21
Now, you just shuffle these cards, right? I did.
1:29:24
Now, have you ever played poker for money? Yeah, let me ask this.
1:29:26
Have you ever played in a casino?
1:29:28
Or have you ever wondered when I play in a casino am I getting conned? I have lost in a casino. Okay.
1:29:35
So, that that thought has crossed your mind, am I getting conned? Yeah.
1:29:39
Now, I'm going to show you You just handed me a randomized deck.
1:29:41
And I'm going to do this in an interesting way.
1:29:43
In the high stake games they'll cut between every shuffle because that buries the top and bottom halves of the deck.
1:29:47
I'll give the deck a little riffle and then we'll People like to cascade the cards into them. Give it a cut.
1:29:55
So, I'm telling you what I'm doing as I do it and I shuffle.
1:29:56
Did everything look legit? Look legit.
1:30:00
And not a move you saw was.
1:30:00
So, you're already in trouble.
1:30:02
Now, I'll show you I'll show you how to move I saw was was honest. a one. Okay. Not a one.
1:30:08
Now I'll show you how fast I can un-cut that deck. What's that card? That is the two clubs. The two clubs.
1:30:13
So, they'll pass the deck to the right to be cut and now the deck is no longer cut. So, two still on top? Watch again. Now, watch again.
1:30:19
I'm showing you how fast I can un-cut the deck.
1:30:22
The deck is no longer cut. Yeah.
1:30:24
That was about a half a second. Yeah.
1:30:26
Now, you've heard of Texas Hold'em. I have. Yeah. Okay.
1:30:28
Well, we'll deal a hand of Hold'em.
1:30:29
In in Hold'em they have what's called a cut card or a burn card.
1:30:31
They put a card in the deck on a face-up card.
1:30:34
Now, after the fact you're going to tell me Keep everything off the table.
1:30:37
Here, give me a full table here. All right.
1:30:39
After the fact you're going to tell me how many people step up to my Hold'em table. Let's pick a number.
1:30:42
Five or six because we don't have a lot of room. Uh five. Five players.
1:30:48
1 2 3 4 5 1 2 3 4 5 burn and we have what's called the flop.
1:30:56
And what are those three cards?
1:30:58
You got the king of hearts, the two of hearts, and the queen of clubs.
1:31:03
are not wild but we did see the queen was your card.
1:31:05
And so, that means there's a pair of kings on the table.
1:31:07
There's a burn and a turn. What's that card?
1:31:10
That's king of Burn card.
1:31:11
So, right now we have three kings because the queen is a wild card. What's that card? That's queen.
1:31:17
Right now we have four kings as you saw with our burn card.
1:31:19
And you're my partner sitting over here in hand number five.
1:31:23
Let's see what you have in the pocket. What's that? That's queen. What's that? That's queen.
1:31:28
So, in the poker you would have uh five of a kind, five kings, or you'd have a a royal flush uh depending on how you wanted to play the hand.
1:31:36
In other words, you killed him. Slaughtered him. Beat him. Whipped him big time. Okay.
1:31:43
Now, you shuffle that deck. Okay.
1:31:45
I'll do I'll I'll show you how far I can push the envelope. All right.
1:31:48
So, I'll shuffle this one.
1:31:48
I think I think we got two cards that got turned up on that one. Okay. That's your job.
1:31:53
You make sure that one's all legitimate. Yep. Okay.
1:31:57
And then I'll switch with you. All right. There we go. Okay. All right.
1:32:04
And you can make sure everything's legitimate in that one. Yeah. All right.
1:32:07
We'll give the deck a cut and we'll play my favorite game, seven card stud.
1:32:11
And this will take a couple minutes to unfold, but it's interesting.
1:32:15
Now, we have a deck of cards shuffled by Tim.
1:32:18
Now, we'll we'll we'll stay with the same number of players.
1:32:19
Well, let's say you choose four players or five. You choose. Four.
1:32:23
Where do you want to sit?
1:32:23
Number one, number two, number three, or number four? I'll be in number one.
1:32:28
Number one, right out of the shoot.
1:32:28
I'm dealing I'm dealing a card in slow motion to hand number one.
1:32:31
Before I continue, take these deck this deck mix them up.
1:32:36
Don't give me the whole deck back.
1:32:37
Just pull out any random part of that deck and put them in my hands.
1:32:39
Just do something quick and just put it down. a couple of cards.
1:32:43
No, well, more than a couple, but enough to get around. Just a stack.
1:32:46
So, I'm going to work with whatever you give me, okay?
1:32:47
Tim just handed me back a random stack of cards.
1:32:50
We're playing dealing a card to player hand number two, player number three, and player number four. You're number one. Slow motion. Watch carefully. There's your card.
1:33:01
We go player two, three, four.
1:33:01
Now, we have what are called the door cards, which means the face up cards. What's that card? Jack of spades.
1:33:09
One, player two, player three, player four. You're number one. What's that card? Ace of clubs.
1:33:15
Two, number three, number four. You're number one. What's that card? Ace of diamonds. Okay, mix them up. Mix them up. Mix them up some more. Mix up the entire deck? Whatever. You're the boss. Okay.
1:33:25
And just hand me any part of that deck you want.
1:33:28
So, you're doing everything you can to screw things up. Okay. And you just Okay.
1:33:33
That's like five cards less than the last time you handed me.
1:33:34
Okay, we have player two, player three, player four.
1:33:40
And so far, we have three cards face up. Yes? And what's that card? It's queen of diamonds. Wild card. What do you Do it again. Mix them up.
1:33:46
Hand me any part of the deck you want.
1:33:48
So, you're shuffling, cutting, Mhm.
1:33:51
you choose how you chose how many players, you chose where you want to sit, you hand me any random part of the deck.
1:33:55
Oh my gosh, getting stingy. Down to six cards.
1:33:58
Player two, player three, player four, and we almost called down and dirty.
1:34:03
I'm now dealing a card off the top to to Tim's first position.
1:34:05
Two, three, four, put that with the rest of the stack. Okay.
1:34:11
Now let's see what you have in your hand.
1:34:14
We're playing seven card stud, high Chicago.
1:34:16
That means high spade in the hole splits the money. All right.
1:34:20
So let's see what you have. What's that card? Queen of diamonds.
1:34:23
That's a queen, a wild card.
1:34:23
So we'll put it over here in the What's that? Ace of diamonds.
1:34:27
That would be a pair of aces cuz the queen's wild. What's that? Ace of clubs. Now you got three aces. What's that?
1:34:33
This is a jack of spades. Jack. What's that? That's a 10 of spades. 10, 10, jack, ace. What's that?
1:34:40
That is the queen of spades. Another wild card.
1:34:43
So right now you have four two aces and two queens, right? That's right.
1:34:50
So you right now in with that would equal four aces.
1:34:51
And the best possible hand in wild card is five aces.
1:34:56
We're playing high spade in the hole splits the pot. What's that? That's an ace. Ace of Ace of spades.
1:35:03
Five aces, the best possible hand you can get in poker is five aces.
1:35:05
You shuffled, you cut, you chose how many players you wanted, you chose where you wanted to sit, and you kept mixing them up, and you didn't even give me a full deck.
1:35:16
You can honestly say that Turner doesn't play with a full deck.
1:35:19
Yeah, that Turner does not play with a full deck. That's amazing.
1:35:22
And yet I dealt you the perfect hand in poker. That's incredible. That's regrettable? It's incredible. Well, that's better. That's better.
1:35:28
Yeah, yeah, yeah, incredible.
1:35:29
That's even That's regrettable. Amazing. All right.
1:35:32
But that shows you how far I can push in that particular thing to be and I know this and I don't mean to sound boastful cuz it's hard to talk about you when you're asking people asking questions about yourself.
1:35:42
It's hard to talk about yourself and not sound bad.
1:35:46
But Vernon, when you first saw me do that, I said, "Professor, what do you think about combine this and this and this?
1:35:52
And you go, "Roger, you can't do that stuff. Not possible.
1:35:54
It can't It can't be done." And I said, "Oh."
1:35:55
He said He said, "You can't do it because" three reasons.
1:36:00
One, your brain can't move respond that fast.
1:36:03
Your hands cannot be that sensitive, and you would break rhythm."
1:36:07
Put those Put those all cards back together from this deck. Okay?
1:36:11
He said, "That's not possible."
1:36:13
And we were at the Magic Castle, and for 10 minutes I sat there.
1:36:15
But he was sitting at the bar, and I was standing next to him. And I was depressed.
1:36:19
For 10 minutes I sat there and go, "This is the ultimate. This is the perfect way.
1:36:23
This is the" And I thought, "And he said it can't be done."
1:36:27
Then all of a sudden I remembered, "But I can do it."
1:36:29
I said, "Professor, come watch my show."
1:36:31
And he came out to the show after he goes, "Roger, what the HELL ARE YOU DOING IN THERE?
1:36:36
I DON'T understand what the hell you were doing."
1:36:38
I said, "Remember when you said you can't combine this and this? That's what I'm doing."
1:36:41
"I don't understand how the hell you can do that."
1:36:44
And then HE GOES, "SMASH, SMASH, COME HERE, WATCH THIS, WATCH THIS."
1:36:45
AND EVERYBODY for the next 18 months, every time I'm there, he'd have me, "Separate the cards.
1:36:51
How many piles do you want?
1:36:52
Where do you want to sit? Watch this, watch this."
1:36:54
And he did it over and over.
1:36:55
And then two years later he goes, "Still don't understand how the hell you can do it."
1:36:59
And he knows exactly what I'm doing, and exactly how I'm doing it. Yeah, that's amazing.
1:37:02
I I So, I have these all the cards facing the same way.
1:37:06
They're I I guess two decks worth of cards.
1:37:08
I don't know how they're split up.
1:37:10
Yeah, but keep 52 52 is the same. Great. Who knows how many?
1:37:15
Roughly roughly 52 over there, I suppose. All right. Wonderful.
1:37:21
So, you Now, you just just because this was mentioned before we started recording, you audit cards. Is that right?
1:37:31
Or you have What's the right term? Analyze.
1:37:34
Yeah, US Playing Card Company is the largest maker of cards in the United States. Mhm.
1:37:40
And they just merged with Carta Mundi, which is the biggest card maker.
1:37:43
They've been start making cards 18 1765.
1:37:46
And US Playing Card Company has been since 18 they've been around for for for 150 years.
1:37:52
And Bicycle is the most recognized pack of cards in the world and has been for over 100 years.
1:37:57
And in 1990 1988 I got some cards. They were so bad.
1:38:01
I told them these are not the cards you've been making.
1:38:06
I can prove prove that you are subcontracting your paper out blah blah blah. Anyway, they sent a rep.
1:38:10
I proved to her and they said he was been proven right.
1:38:13
Then in 1993 they started miscutting their cards.
1:38:15
I turned the things over.
1:38:17
I said these are not the cards you've been making for 100 years. I can prove it.
1:38:21
And at that time they were getting flak from the casinos and they card casinos were not not happy with the cards.
1:38:27
There was something wrong with them and I'm the one that identified the problem.
1:38:30
And and that was the blade was going through the wrong side of the card which affected the integrity of the card and the the ability for it to to to properly be be handled properly.
1:38:40
And so then they finally put me on retainer in the 1990s.
1:38:45
And they I helped them make the best card in the world and they do make the best cards in the world.
1:38:49
And and just give you an idea how far the their director of research and development would push me. He would send me out.
1:38:58
Okay, usually it was two dozen decks or like 20 decks.
1:39:03
But I'll make it real small so you can understand. Let's say six decks. Okay.
1:39:07
So there's it would be if it was two dozen it would be there would be 12 pairs. Okay. 12 pairs.
1:39:13
So we we were small we reduce our our illustrations to down to six six decks. There's three pairs.
1:39:21
And one of the decks Three pairs of decks. Three three three pairs. Yeah. Yeah.
1:39:26
Six cards six decks which is three pairs. Okay.
1:39:28
So we're down to six decks which would be three pairs.
1:39:30
And then when I say pairs um each the the the each pair was ran together.
1:39:37
That was a particular run of that deck. Okay. Okay.
1:39:41
And so they would they would say one of the decks they just changed one of the chemicals in the coating.
1:39:46
This is probably the the most elaborate one that I did.
1:39:50
Just one of the chemicals was changed.
1:39:52
Not the whole chemical, not the whole process.
1:39:53
One of the chemicals was changed in their coating.
1:39:55
And so, not only did I have to say deck one and three are match, two and four are match, and five and six are match.
1:40:05
And it was five and six that had the chemical change.
1:40:07
And so, not only did I And and they had those cards coded.
1:40:13
When I say coded, they had a secret code like Q752916J.
1:40:20
Which that was their key in Cincinnati to understand these two are the pair, these two are the pair, these two are the pair. I did not have the key. Right.
1:40:29
You know, but I just had these random numbers that I had put down in my report.
1:40:32
My son Jason would tell me, "Well, this one dad is J752. This one is 67J4."
1:40:39
And which meant absolutely nothing to me.
1:40:41
And then I'd find out that 67J4 and the Q whatever whatever they were the match.
1:40:44
And so, I'd have to pair them up, match them up, and then analyze the snap, the embossing depth, the cut, the caliper, what I call the right period, and all these things and which one is a better card.
1:40:57
And help And they would take that information and fine-tune their machines to help, you know, make the cards that that they make, which are by far the finest cards you can buy. Yeah, no one yes.
1:41:12
So, I know we have just a little bit of time left.
1:41:15
And we're practically neighbors since you're in San Antonio.
1:41:20
We're very very close by.
1:41:22
I'm curious to know And this this this is sometimes a difficult question, but I'll just I'll ask one or two more questions.
1:41:33
If you could put a message, a quote, anything non-commercial on a billboard to get a message out to millions or billions of people?
1:41:40
Is there Is there anything that comes to mind that you might put on that billboard? Yeah.
1:41:46
In the Uni- In America, we have opportunities.
1:41:49
Success depends upon the use we make of those opportunities. Mhm. That would be one.
1:41:55
Another would would be not going down. Not going down. Not going down.
1:42:02
Another one would be consider every obstacle that I mentioned, every obstacle, challenge, hurt, pain in your life as part of the adventure of life.
1:42:13
That's what gives life gives life spice. Mhm.
1:42:17
You know, we Oh, and then and circling back to um when I was talking about the surgeries and my career was almost at an end, I was at Penn & Teller's theater.
1:42:26
I was going to be on their show, uh their fourth season. And the third season.
1:42:33
And I was in the gym, the Rio gym, where else, with my friend Doug Gorman.
1:42:36
And uh I said, "Okay, I paid $17 for my workout."
1:42:43
Uh it was a ridiculous workout bench.
1:42:46
And so, I was I as soon as I got in there, one of those benches that you set them up up up right like this to like you're doing standing curls. Right.
1:42:54
Or you know, you sit and you curl, or you can recline it back for like you know, triceps, or lay it all the way back and if you want to do sit-ups on there Right. Just a little bench. An adjustable bench.
1:43:02
And it was propped like this. At about 45 degrees. Uh yeah, at 45 degrees.
1:43:06
And I couldn't I pulled that I couldn't get it to go down.
1:43:09
And I felt up it was butted up against the wall. Mhm.
1:43:13
And so, I took that bench and I moved it over like this and wham!
1:43:19
My thumb was here and and it was you know, those commercial grade benches.
1:43:23
The steel bars that went went around here and the steel bars that that was the frame of the bench just came down and crushed my thumb. What did I do?
1:43:34
I know he's crazy and you're people that are listening watching say, yeah, he's a little on the crazy side.
1:43:38
And okay, don't let me get off track on here, but did you know I'm a I'm a certified oddball? A certified oddball? I am certified.
1:43:47
I did I did see your card.
1:43:48
Yeah, yeah, I'll explain.
1:43:49
You've heard of Ripley's Believe It or Not, right? Yes.
1:43:52
In 1984 I was on the TV series Ripley's Believe It or Not hosted by Jack Palance.
1:43:55
I'm also an exhibit in the second largest Ripley's in the country and I'm in the 2015 issue of Ripley's Believe It or Not Book of Eye-Popping Oddities.
1:44:07
I see you must need a certificate. Certified. I am a certified oddity.
1:44:09
So, you might be an oddball, Tim. I'm certified. You're certified. I'm a certified oddball.
1:44:15
Okay, so this so this contraption comes crashing down. thumb and I called Doug.
1:44:17
I said, bring me a bucket of ice and don't ask any questions.
1:44:21
And I I saved $17 for this workout.
1:44:24
I'm not going to So, I ice for 3 minutes, worked out for 3 minutes, ice for 3 minutes, worked out for 3 minutes. Face my worked out.
1:44:31
Oh my gosh, my thumb was as big as my big toe.
1:44:33
I go I ran upstairs, grabbed my car and I went Oh my gosh.
1:44:36
I can't feel it, so I called the producers Lincoln and Lincoln and Andrew.
1:44:41
They were the executive producers of the show.
1:44:42
I said, Lincoln, I had a little trouble.
1:44:47
A bench crushed my thumb.
1:44:47
I think I can do the first and third part of what we rehearsed, but I don't think I do the second. He said, get down here.
1:44:52
He says, you're going to the emergency room.
1:44:55
They sent me to the emergency room and they got in there and the first thing they did is they poked a hole in it.
1:45:01
They said a fountain of blood shot out.
1:45:03
I ended up having to go into surgery.
1:45:08
And you and because that I thought this may be the end of my career.
1:45:11
And Luke and the boys were flying in to get some footage with Penn and Teller for Delta. Yeah.
1:45:19
And they were in air when this happened.
1:45:22
So, they land thinking they're coming in to fight Penn and film Penn and Teller and about, you know, whatever they were going to ask them, only to find out that I just got crushed, and oh, instead they're filming me showing my thumb that's every shade of black and blue but the color it's supposed to be.
1:45:42
Anyway, so I ended up in surgery, and I thought, "Okay, if this is the end of my life, I don't want to be I told the surgeon, do not I don't want to be out I want to be I want fully conscious.
1:45:53
I've went through multiple surgeries, and I I'll just shuffle the cards with my other hand while you work on this one, and that'll just that'll that'll keep that'll be my anesthetic."
1:46:03
And so he thought I was nuts, and you can watch it it's and I said, "I want to film it, too.
1:46:08
So if this is the end of my career, I want footage."
1:46:10
And so they said, "Okay, well, you just put our anesthesiologist out of business. He can film it."
1:46:17
And you can you go on YouTube as crushed alien thumb feature and crushed alien thumb.
1:46:21
One is the short version, one's long long version.
1:46:23
But it's just it's on YouTube.
1:46:25
Crushed alien thumb is what you look it up.
1:46:27
You but it but I have to warn you, it's graphic because he he takes a spoon takes a spoon and pops my thumb open like a hood of a car.
1:46:37
Then he takes and he's cuts it open, and he's squeezing the blood and we're talking the whole time back and forth, and I'm shuffling cards, and they they go back and forth shuffle and and the thumb and and we're talking about this, and and I said, "Man, this is so cool."
1:46:50
And he goes, "Why don't people want to do this?"
1:46:53
He says, they go skitzoid. Yeah.
1:46:55
People go schizophrenic when they see you go through something like this.
1:46:57
They said, "I have to be totally unconscious before I did it."
1:47:01
And I just had a hangnail or bruise.
1:47:03
This is the hand doctor talking.
1:47:04
Anyway, but but I that gets back to I am a certified oddball.
1:47:10
So you So you have your thumb popped open like the hood of the car, and we'll we'll link to those videos in the show notes.
1:47:16
I tend to blog, so people will be able to find all of those videos.
1:47:20
And uh what happened after that?
1:47:22
Did you meet with Penn and Teller?
1:47:24
Yeah, when I went Yeah, Lincoln Andrew said, "You'll come back for a fourth season. Don't worry about it.
1:47:31
Right now, take care of your thumb."
1:47:31
It literally took to the day before my thumbnail came back because they didn't know if it was going to take or I could grow another grow out another one or I was going to end up with no thumbnail at all.
1:47:42
Fortunately, I grew out a new one and it was literally Friday before that my manicures finally got the last part of the wiggly waggly looking thumbnail to be matched up and I went on and I started the filming on the following Monday.
1:47:56
So, it took almost a year to the day.
1:47:58
And and so I I got on the show and had a blast.
1:48:02
It was and I fooled them faster than anybody in the history of their show cuz you know, they and it was really fun and I and Penn and Teller are just amazing performers. They are just top notch.
1:48:14
And and Penn and Teller is so funny and people don't realize it.
1:48:18
And if you watch some of the show and I I'm told this afterwards, he was staring staring at what I'm doing and and he's trying to signal, "Bring down the trophy now."
1:48:28
And over the headpiece, they should have told Don't bring that trophy.
1:48:31
We want Richie to do his entire act.
1:48:33
And then and then beforehand, they said, "Richie, you got to tell us how you do this so we can make a judgement."
1:48:39
This is their judges, Johnny Thompson and and Michael Close.
1:48:41
I said, "Well, you know, De Verne and I are the only ones that really knows this stuff.
1:48:44
We know that we got to make some judgement." I said, "Okay, watch."
1:48:47
I showed them in slow motion what I was doing.
1:48:51
I showed it and they go, "My god, it really is impossible."
1:48:52
And so then what Penn hears over his head, this is what I was told, is don't stood up.
1:48:59
They were supposed to I was supposed to have a 6-minute interview with Allison while they discussed how to do it and then of course they had to done in 1 minute on the broadcast.
1:49:05
And they go they said over the headpiece, "Don't ask us.
1:49:10
We don't know how he did it."
1:49:10
And so then Penn turns around and says, "We have nothing to say. You fooled us."
1:49:13
And then but the cool part was I walk off stage with Penn and I hear this And this is exactly how he talked. Richard! F F F F! I said, "Who's that?" "It's me, Teller."
1:49:30
He said, "It was so wonderful to be so completely and thoroughly astonished.
1:49:37
I've never seen anything like that in my life."
1:49:39
And I got And they said, "Let's get some selfies."
1:49:43
And then And then the really fun thing was at midnight I I get a call.
1:49:46
They tell it They said Teller wants to know if we can come up get a signed deck of cards from you.
1:49:52
I said, "This is backwards.
1:49:52
I'm supposed to ask them for autographs from them."
1:49:56
And I said, "Does Penn want one, too?"
1:49:59
They said, "Oh, would you? Penn would love it."
1:50:00
Anyway, so that was that was kind of a cool really cool thing.
1:50:04
And And like I said, they're they're extraordinary extraordinarily talented and extraordinary talents.
1:50:10
And I was so honored that that they like dealt.
1:50:12
And then they Teller actually wrote one of the on the film posters. One of the blurbs, yeah. Very well earned.
1:50:22
And the the entire story, I mean this is this is a perfect way to wrap up because that entire story makes me think back to Tony Giorgio early on.
1:50:32
And what was what was he saying? Don't make the money? Won't get the money. Won't get the money.
1:50:38
Now, later though Later though What did he What did he say?
1:50:42
In 2001, I just finished my show at the Castle and there's Tony.
1:50:45
And he and I battled each other for 20 years, 25 years.
1:50:51
And they said, "Richard, Tony's here to see you."
1:50:54
And there's a what's called the Vernon seat, where Vernon had one corner, and that's where Tony would sit because Vernon had passed away 9 years, 10 years before.
1:51:00
And and they had one seat across waiting for me to sit down.
1:51:05
All these top card guys are standing there waiting.
1:51:07
They want another battle between Giorgio and Tony and Giorgio and Tony and Giorgio and Tony.
1:51:11
They know they always have these showdowns like gunfighters.
1:51:14
And so I didn't want to have any part of it and I said, "No, I'll just stand here."
1:51:17
For an hour they said they finally said, "Richard, Tony was waiting."
1:51:22
And finally I thought to myself, "You know what?
1:51:25
Tony was mean and hard on me, but I have to credit at least half of my accomplishments to him being my antagonist.
1:51:34
And I thought And I thought, "Okay."
1:51:37
And I said, "Tony, um I just want to thank you for all your years of encouragement. You were hard on me.
1:51:44
You were divisive at times, but people respect you because you knew the real work and you could do the real work.
1:51:51
And because you pushed me hard, you made me better.
1:51:54
And I want to thank you for that."
1:51:56
And he goes, "Well, I thank you, Richard. That's very nice of you.
1:52:00
Did you ever get that center deal down?"
1:52:01
And And of course he knew I did.
1:52:04
I said, "Would you mind showing us?"
1:52:04
So now I sit down now for the next 2 and 1/2 hours we're doing what everybody wanted to see him after every thing.
1:52:09
He turned to us, "That'll get the money. That'll get the money."
1:52:14
And then he actually wanted to He actually proposed He said, "You We have the perfect scam, the perfect threesome."
1:52:22
He said, "I'll tell the people you're a high-stakes gambler and but you can't see, but you would love to play hold 'em.
1:52:28
I'll be the person who tell reads the cards to you."
1:52:31
He said, "There's not five people in the in the gaming world that understands your work."
1:52:35
He said, "And you We have a third agent, third part of the crew that you'll deal the good hands to."
1:52:40
And so from the guy who said never get the money actually proposed us putting together as a team and and hustling together.
1:52:49
And then And then I actually have a handwritten letter, five-page handwritten letter is one of my best treasures from Tony Georgio.
1:52:55
And and then emails that say, "Love, Tony." at the end of it.
1:53:01
So it went from won't get the money to just talking nasty and mean and times at the castle he would have to be taken out taken out of the castle in ways he didn't wasn't pleasant to him.
1:53:14
Uh to uh to become a very dear friend and I actually had the privilege of writing one for one of the magazines his obituary because I had a 39 year relationship with him from from fighting to to earning his respect and really quickly that came from my first director, a man named Steve Terrell who was a TV and movie star back in the 50s and early 60s.
1:53:38
And he was I was in the the theater company called the Lambs Players from 1972 to 78.
1:53:41
And one of the things he would tell me is he would well on stage he would watch me and I'd look be looking out of the corner of my eye.
1:53:49
Remember we talked about that?
1:53:50
Said I had no forward vision.
1:53:51
So I'm talking to my character and I'm looking over here.
1:53:54
He said, "Richard you need to you it looks odd for you looking off to the side.
1:53:59
I know that you can't see the where the shadow is even unless you turn your head to the side."
1:54:04
He said, "Just you look at the voice."
1:54:05
And he taught me how to square my head towards the voice and give the impression that I could see them.
1:54:09
He said, "You've seen an actor who played the part of a blind person. You flipped the roles. You're a blind person.
1:54:14
You play the part of an of a sighted person."
1:54:20
And and he said, "And if you he says he would watch me practice it before and after every scene.
1:54:25
He says, "You love cards.
1:54:26
If you become the best card man in the world, you will earn the respect of your worst enemies."
1:54:31
And and then that was the case with Tony Giorgio.
1:54:34
He was the guy who was an enemy.
1:54:37
He was my big wor- he was my nightmare every time I went to the castle if we ran into each other to become a a very dear man.
1:54:47
And I mean that's that sounds like a another billboard.
1:54:50
So if I could put if I could put up a billboard for you, that's what it would say. That'll get the money. That'll get the money. That'll get the money.
1:54:57
And this has been so fun.
1:54:57
We didn't even get into your hustling stories and this this entire prep has been an embarrassment of riches.
1:55:07
So, I hope this isn't the last time that I see you.
1:55:09
Hopefully, we get to spend some more time together. You name it.
1:55:11
Or where if I'm up here, I'll let you know I'm coming.
1:55:14
Anytime you want to visit or do something again, I'm at your it'd be my honor honor and privilege to hang out together even if it's to go have a protein shake.
1:55:26
Protein shake or maybe I can just get my ass handed to me in the gym or or maybe maybe a bit of both.
1:55:30
And what a pleasure to spend time with you finally in person, which I've wanted for so long.
1:55:37
And people can find out all about you, Richard Turner 52, the number 52, richardturner52.
1:55:42
com on social and I'll link to all of these in the show notes as well. youtube.
1:55:47
com/asat52, that's a s a t 52 and then also youtube. com /richardturner52.
1:55:58
We'll link to all of this for speaking Speaking, you're repped by APB speaking bureau.
1:56:02
My American Program Bureau, APB.
1:56:02
And that's one of my favorite things to do now is for some reason people are inspired and my wife says people want to hear your story.
1:56:11
And I always wanted to just be an entertainer, but I have to say I'm I'm really blessed that I have the privilege of speaking and entertaining some of the most amazing companies in the on the planet.
1:56:23
And I can't wait to see what you do next.
1:56:26
You are also, of course, featured in Dealt, which has at least last I checked a 95% 95, yeah.
1:56:35
on Rotten Tomatoes and it is one of my favorite documentaries I've seen in the certainly last 5 years.
1:56:44
It's it's just spectacular and I am greatly inspired by you, slightly terrified of you.
1:56:53
And Uh, I look forward to to watching your further ongoing adventures and um, hope to uh, hope to have a protein shake in the near future.
1:57:03
But, uh, thanks very much for coming. Really appreciate it. It was my pleasure, Tim.
1:57:06
It was a pleasure being with you and I'm honored as well. Thank you, sir.
1:57:11
And uh, for everybody watching or listening, uh, we will have a lot to link to in the show notes and uh, many resources.
1:57:16
We also have, of course, the video if you're listening via audio, which you can check out at youtube.
1:57:22
com/timferriss or just go to tim.
1:57:26
blog and you'll find it there.
1:57:27
And for the show notes, all the links just go to tim.
1:57:29
blog/podcast, type in Richard Turner, and bam, lickety-split, you'll have what you need.
1:57:36
And until next time, be safe, train hard, practice perfectly if you're going to practice, and thanks for listening. Thanks for watching.