the historic first meeting of rolls and Royce took place in 1904 the two men could hardly have come from different backgrounds CS rolls had been educated at Cambridge and moved comfortably in London Society among his aristocratic and Wealthy Friends Henry Roy had known
poverty and hardship all of his life the only University he graduated from was the one of Hard Knocks the one characteristic they had in common was a certain prickliness this is how rolls described the first time he met Roy you may ask yourselves how it was that I came to be associated with Mr Roy for
years I'd been engaged in the sale of foreign cars I wanted to be able to recommend and sell the best cars in the world the cars I sold were the best that could be got at that time but I always had a sort of feeling that I should be selling English cars instead of foreign
ones I noticed a growing desire of my clients to purchase english-made cars at the same time I could not come across any english-made car that I really liked eventually I was fortunate enough to make the acquaintance of Mr Royce and in him I found the man that I had been
looking for for years it was immediately clear two rules that Henry Royce was an unusual Talent roll at this time had a prejudice against two cylinder engine cars and so he climbed into the passenger seat of Henry Roy's little two-cylinder car prepared for all the vibration and roughness that were
usually associated with that type to his amazement he found that the car had a smoothness and a quite phenomenal degree of Silence he came he rode and he was conquered that is an extra from the book I'm going to talk to about today which is rollsroyce the magic of a name the
first 40 Years of Britain's most prestigious company and it was written by Peter Pew so this is my second time reading this book the first time I read it was like three and a half years ago it's originally episode 81 of founders I wanted to read it because I think a main
theme of Henry Royce's life is that you can actually build worldclass products in an amazing business without having to invent anything new his main Talent was an ability to observe think about and then improve on existing machines and products and he says this himself he's
like I didn't invent the automobile I just took every component of the automobile improve the quality and the sum of those parts led to the Quality that Rolls-Royce is still known for 100 years after he started the company and this idea has been in front of my mind I
just did this three-part Series where I read all of Paul Graham's essays on episode 277 which is the third in that three-part series there's a this this essay that Paul writes that's called hackers and Painters and Paul has this line that I absolutely love and he says
a great product has to be better than it has to be and he says relentlessness wins because in the aggregate unseen details become visible I'm going to read this line this line could he's just in this case he's talking about Paul's just talking about Leonard Vinci and Michael
Jordan and others this could be the great this could be a great description of Henry Royce all those unseen details combined to produce something that is just stunning like a thousand barely audible voices all singing In Tune and so the way I think all this ties together is because there were painters
before Da Vinci there were basketball players before Michael Jordan and there were people making cars before Henry Roy yet what they all have in common is they were Relentless and relentlessness wins because in aggregate unseen details become visible and so with that let me
jump into Henry Royce's early life this podcast is about Henry Royce because even though CS rolls was the co-founder of rollsroyce he died just a few years after the company started he actually died tragically in a in a plane crash he was actually flying one of the early
right Flyers made by the by the right BLS and he was the first English person to be killed in a plane accident and so most of the early history of Rolls-Royce is built around the very domineering personality and Engineering Genius of Henry Roy he says he was descended from
generations of farmers and Millers his grandfather had been a Pioneer in the insulation of steam power in watermills unfortunately that Talent skipped the generation Royce's grandfather was successful his father was not and as a result of his father's lack of success
Roy actually grew up in poverty his father James trained to be a farmer before moving on to Milling James proved to be unreliable and seemed unable to apply himself consistently I think you can already see where we're going this is a main theme in the history of
Entrepreneurship that's going to show up over and over again by the time Henry Royce was born his dad was in finan trouble he died in a poor house at the age of only 41 I think around this time Royce is eight or nine the reason I said that you could probably see where we're
going is because there's this main them that pops up over and over and over again it comes from the biography of Francis Ford Copa that I covered back on episode 242 you can always understand the son by the story of his father the story of the father is embedded in the
son think about you could not have a more opposite description of Henry Royce and the person he was than that description the author just just gave us of his father James James proved to be unreliable and seemed unable to apply himself consistently Henry Royce is going to have the opposite problem he
works so much he almost Works himself to death Henry Royce therefore knew property in his early life when he was four years old he was already earning money bird scaring in the fields after his father died he sold newspapers and delivered telegrams his life may have
been very very different if it wasn't for the fact of this a random act of kindness from his aunt this act of kindness is actually going to change trajectory of Royce's life fortunately when he was 14 an aunt agreed to pay $2,200 a year for him to be an apprentice at the Great Northern Railway
Works he learned a great deal about Machining in the workshop after 3 years his aunt was unable to continue her support this was a serious setback for Roy since failure to complete his premium apprenticeship denied him skilled status so even though he has the knowledge he doesn't have the credential
he winds up having to take a job that's for Less pay than than he would have if if he would have had actually completed his apprenticeship he says he found work as a toolmaker with an engineering firm he was paid $60 a week and he worked from 6:00 a.m. until 1000 p.m. so even
from a relatively young age we're around 21 he's around 21 where we are in the story right now he was interested in both machinery and electricity so he's actually a mechanical engineer and an electrical engineer uh this is his first job uh with an electric company his
interest in electricity led him to a job with the electric light and power company in London he progressed so well that he was actually promoted to be a first electrician of an associated company of the power company this wind up being an important twist of fate because that company a few years later
is actually going to go out of business and went into liquidation and then Royce had saved some money and set up his own business which he named after himself so it was the FH Roy and Company and this is where we get the first introduction of what I mentioned earlier the a main
point of the book rice had an ability to think about and improve existing machines existing products so his company starts out making like small electrical items like electric Bell sets switches fuses filaments that sort of thing but they have eventually move on
to building complete installations of dynamos a Dynamo is a machine that's used to convert mechanical energy into electrical energy so it's also sometimes referred to as a generator and so this is what Roy said about his skills at this time and so he's looking at existing dynamos he says in spite of
insufficient ordinary and Technical education I managed to conceive the importance of sparkless commutation and the superity of don't worry about these terms I'm I'm skipping over a bunch of the terms just technical terms and the superiority of the drum wound Armature
for continuous current dynamos this goes on for quite a while that's not the important part what I think is the important part this is the theme this is why I wanted to reread the book I need to drill this idea into my head over and over and over again everything around
you can be improved these improvements can be the foundation of a wonderful business exactly like Rolls-Royce and one of my personal Heroes James Dyson and so this section ends with this fantastic sentence this ability to observe think about and then improve on
existing machines was to be a consistent theme throughout Roy's life and then Roy talks about the early days of his business how it was very tenuous on the borderline of success and failure and we see an early glimpse into this legendary work ethic and this intense drive to not
wind up like his father for many years I worked hard to keep the company going through this through these very difficult days I personally kept our few machine tools working on Saturday afternoons when the men did not wish to work many times our position was so
precarious that it seemed hopeless to continue certainly he became obsessed with work often staying late into the night and even all through the night on a number of occasions those arriving next morning would find him at work at his workbench asleep with his head in his arms and the main problem with this
business is that it's inconsistent the company can do well over the next few years it actually does relatively well over the next decade or so but there's constant booms and busts and so during an economic recession this is what causes Roy he's looking around for other
products that that he could make that he could use his talents and actually make and so this is why he starts making cars helping Roy make the decision to build a prototype motor car was the post-war slump this is in 1903 which left his company along with many others with
spare capacity Roy was mindful of the survival of his company and faced with declining orders felt that the Motorcars could be a new product in which he could use his talents as an electrical and mechanical engineer and this is where it became clear to me that Henry Roy is
another example of something that you and I talk about over and over again it pops up in the history of Entrepreneurship that the timing is really important Royce happens to be at the right place at the right time with the right set of skills and so while Roy
is actually experimenting and building his first prototype car CS rolls asked this other guy that they both know this guy named Edmonds if he knew of a source of new cars this is how roll meets Roy and so we see the foundation of the Rolls-Royce company comes from frustration Roy is looking at the
existing cars and he deems them inadequate this is reminds me this is why I say reminds me of James Dyson if you haven't listened to uh I did I think the best I've done a number of uh episodes on James Tyson I think the best one is probably episode 200 so it says
frustrated with the inadequacies of the dville I think is how you pronounce it which was essentially the standard like the high standard in automobiles at the time and so Royce is examining the existing car and he said he saw he could build on it Roy decided to make a
prototype car of his own and then the author makes a good point here some have tried to give the impression that was almost by chance that Royce became involved in designing a motor car Roy was not a man to rely on chance he saw a motorc car had a great future and that
it would be an ideal product for his business and this is a description of the main theme of the book this part is excellent there was nothing revolutionary about Royce's car he had taken the best of current automobile design and improved on every aspect of it I do not think that Royce did
anything of a revolutionary nature in his work on Motorcars he did however do much important development and a considerable amount of redesigning of existing devices existing products is the way you and I would think about this so that his Motorcars were far and a way
better than anyone else's Motor Cars he paid great attention to the smallest detail in the result of his personal consideration to every little thing resulted in the whole assembly being of a very high standard of perfection it is rather to Roy's thoroughness and attention to even the smallest detail
than to any revolutionary invention that his products have the superlative qualities that we all know so well so as you can imagine somebody with insanely high quality uh standards and expectations is unbelievably difficult to work with so he's definitely hard on
the people around him but he's also very demanding on himself and this is going to be a fantastic quote about that uh here he was a hard Taskmaster but it was only fair to add that he drove no one harder than himself one employee said later I not only admired him I was one
of the few people who were genuinely fond of him Henry this is this is an incredible quote Henry Roy ruled the lives of the people around him claimed their body and soul even when they were asleep now just stop here and imagine and try to put yourself in his shoes and look at
his life through his eyes right your father was chronically sick he was lazy and didn't apply himself he dies while you were young think he's like eight or nine years old you grew up in poverty you took a job every job you get as young as four years old you were saved
by an act of Charity and now you have the opportunity to apply your rare set of skills to build a valuable company and create wealth of course you are going to take it seriously a lot of this reminds me of Koco Chanel I read her biography I've actually done two episodes on her but the last time I read
a biography on her was episode 199 and she grew up in poverty she was an orphan her mom dies when she's young her dad skips out and she talked about just I want control and it was very rare you know she's starting B first of all like how it was so unbelievably rare for
women like uh women to be able to start their own company in the early 1900s and she has great lines in those books where she talks about like you know for the first time she has Independence and control and like fate is now in her hands instead of just felt like life was
something was happening to her and she said they didn't understand how important this was to me and then later in life she still has that level of drive and dedication to her work where she says she said uh one of my favorite quotes of her she says it is immoral to
play at earnings one's living she had a deep love of fashion she loved building her fashion house but she took it very seriously and there's also a line in that fantastic biography I'm going to read to you she devotes her energies talking about kushna obviously she
devotes her energies to barely noticeable refinements of details of her suits and dressers listen to this description of how Henry Roy worked and you will see that same mindset and it says this is a story on the quality work in detail from one of the first apprentices at Rolls-Royce my favorite
story of Rolls-Royce workmanship design and quality to the Americans when they ask me about it as they often do is the use of taper bolts instead of rivets I remember Roy carefully explaining to me how a hot rivet never filled a hole when it cooled and a cold rivet was too was
punishing the metal too much so hot uh rivets won't do cold rivets won't do that's fine we'll create something new so we made taper bolts and we fitted them perfectly in a hand reamed hole it is such details that explain the difference between Rolls-Royce and other
cars it was Roy himself who taught us all the principles which carried on in the whole organization think about that Roy is the one that comes up with the principles and he spreads it through the entire organization this reminds me of one of my favorite descriptions ever I've read
I don't know what 10 books on Steve Jobs and it says he made and remade Apple in his own image apple is Steve Jobs with 10,000 lives inevitably whenever you hear a brand that is known for Quality a brand that in many cases outlives the original founder right whether it's a a
Ferrari a Rolls-Royce an apple an Estee La a Chanel you can always tie it back to one insanely dedicated and obsessed founder they create the culture from the very beginning and in many times that culture is a reflection of their personality it is who they are he made and remade Apple in his own image apple
is Steve Jobs with 10,000 lives we are seeing that same principle applied at the very beginning of Rolls-Royce 120 years ago it was Roy himself who taught us all the principles and which were which were carried on through the entire organization and I think this next part
is an excellent way to think about a product I wrote when I read this part this sings to me this first car like its successors were not revolutionary in any single part but in the Excellence of the whole quality as a strategy this gives you an idea of the quality of Royce's
work reliability was the strongest feature of his cars one of them was returned in 1923 in perfect running order after 100,000 mile R miles run over the hilly roads of Scotland it was a standard of reliability none of rolls-royce's competitors could come near to emulating
and as you can imagine one one element of his personality was that he was a control freak this part just made me chuckle cuz he's in the middle of building a car and giving everything to building that car they're successful so they have to expand and he's like well I
need to dedicate just as much time and energy into building the machine that makes the machine which is the factory right Roy though he was deeply engaged in the development of a new six-cylinder car still found time to design most of the factory buildings himself and then
Morris makes an incredibly important decision they should do one thing and do it well he did not want to dilute his skills uh his skill set over making multiple cars he's going to focus on one the other vital early decision made by the new company was to conate on one
model and now that Roy had produced a model Superior to all its Rivals Royals Roy would devote its energies exclusively to this model instead of diluting his skills over three or four models Roy could concentrate on bringing one model to perfection and there are those who would say that
this new six-cylinder Rolls-Royce the silver ghost is the most famous car ever made now this is crazy so this I think the silver Ghost came out in 1908 I think the first one was made in 1908 this goost to show you that a good idea can last for an unbelievable long time
this is how this is one of the ways they marketed the silver ghost you know over 100 years ago I remember seeing Comm car commercials when I was a kid that took this idea and are still using it it says to Pro to prove its smoothness of the silver ghost and lack of vibration a
glass full of water was placed on the car while the engine was taking up to taken up to 1,600 revolutions per minute and not a single drop spilt and I just want to pull out one part that I think is interesting because I think it speaks to the fact that overregulation and usually
overregulation caused by special interest can actually or kill a a new industry in the early 1900s the automobile was a very it's a new industry and so Thomas Edison actually makes a cameo in this book and says like Britain's essentially overregulation their own industry and allowed the
Americans to seize control over one of the most important industries the world has ever seen so it says in Britain the the development of cars was held back by laws designed to protect a former way of life and the interest of the Whale Way the of the Railway companies so they had
this thing called the locomotives act and it stated that listen to this this is so incredible if first of all if you're driving a car there has to be at least three people so why would you have to have three like three people in a car at least three people had to be employed
to drive the vehicle while the vehicle was in motion one of the three passengers was required to preed the vehicle on foot by at least 20 yards so you're calling up your friends like hey guys let's go for a drive by the way which one of you is going to walk in
front of the car the whole time like that's ridiculous the speed limit was 4 mph 4 miles per hour on country roads and 2 mes Hour in town in towns there was a license fee of $1,000 a year Per County in which the vehicle was to be driven through faced with these restrictions early motoring Pioneers
were forced to spend time trying to have such Laws repealed rather than on the development of the cars as Thomas Edison observed the motorc car ought have been British you first invented it in the 1830s you have roads only second to those in France meaning as the quality
of the roads you have hundreds of thousands of skilled mechanics in your midsts but you lost your trade by stupid legislation and Prejudice so then we get to the part in his life where he almost Works himself to death I think he's at 48 years old at this point CS rolls he
had just perished in a plane accident plane crash like I said that was in 1910 the next year it says another Calamity struck the following year when Royce himself was taken seriously ill long years of overwork and neglect on the needs of his body finally took their
toll doctors were pessimistic about his chances of survival they eventually going to send him to a warmer climate this is when Rolls-Royce becomes a distributed company like the the headquarters are in London and then the factories in Derby in England and then Royce and his design team up until he
dies I think about 20 years from where we are in the story they're actually going to work in the south of France which I'll get to in a minute but right now he's really sick and he's still working from bed eventually his partner uh there's this guy named Claude Johnson
Claude Johnson describes himself as The Hyphen in Rolls-Royce he plays an unbelievable important role he's like he's like the business guy the business manager to Royce's engineering genius and so Claude eventually is going to save Roy's Life by taking him and taking him on long extended vacation
essentially the only way you could get this guy to stop working is if you put him in a car and just drove him around Europe which is exactly what Claude did uh so it says uh Roy's Mind undistracted by the management of the factory uh he kept his staff busy with a continual
stream of ideas from his very fertile brain often his health kept him in bed all morning and this was the period of his greatest mental activity without making a single note he would design a new component in his head after lunch he would explained the component and the
plan to his assistant uh the assistant would write up Blueprints and then they'd be sent sent to Derby where their Factory is and then the finished Parts would then be sent back to Royce Royce would then turn them over this new part that came from his mind is now in his
hand okay that's essentially what's happening in the book Royce would turn them over in his sensitive hands criticized them and then redesign them and then this next part is interesting for two reasons and both those reasons remind me of Warren Buffett and Charlie
Munger one I love this idea um it said Warren says a loss of focus is what worries Charlie and me the most which is exactly what's going to happen with the competitor of Rolls-Royce and never happens with Henry Royce but also because Charlie and Warren talk about
they didn't like betting on companies at like the beginning of an industry because they maybe like I think they use the example of like the American Car Industries like 2,000 startups and yet only three survive and so at the beginning of this industry Rolls-Royce had all these other competitors and one
of them was this very formidable company called Napier and Napier's founder got rich and got distracted and so this is going to benefit Rolls-Royce too because all the talented Engineers from Napier go to Rolls-Royce and he says I saw that his meaning Napier's interest in his so
it's a car company named after the founder okay I saw that his Napier's interest in Napier's cars was beginning to wne there was not the old enthusiasm and there was a certain error of indifference as regards to the class of work that left the factory his chief interest seemed to pass from the factory
to his own bank account which was never the case in the early days this is why Jeff basos says missionaries make better products right Roy was a missionary Napier just wanted to make money eventually a lot of the most talented Engineers left Napier for Rolls-Royce so today rolls is well known
not only for the cars but they build highquality airplane engines that actually starts because World War I breaks out there's a need for domestic airplane engines I don't think there there was even like I think the industry was barely you could even barely call an
industry at this time so the reason I'm bringing this to your attention though is because Roy just takes it on his own he's like okay well I'm just going to try to design my first airplane engine even though the board told him not to and he just NE it it just it was
irrelevant to him it did not matter he's like I'm going to do what I want to do at the same time as a Rolls-Royce board was deciding not to make airplane engines for the government Roy was already designing one not for the last time Royce was ignoring what the board
had decided in his absence and then we see the same level of quality and dedication Obsession that he applied to his cars he's applying to airplane engines now uh he already had an engine ready to test in late 1915 it was expected to give 200 horsepower but gave 225 horsepower on its first run however
Roy was not satisfied he strove to increase power reduce weight and fuel consumption and at the same time improve reliability Roy was testing every part of the engine to destruction and this is so crazy as he's building this right his work is so detailed and like he's
writing not only memos for himself but memos for all the people working for him that the company decides to make these notes into a book that they're eventually going to call the Rolls-Royce Bible so impressive were the writings from Roy that Claude Johnson had Roy's
memos on the subject printed and bound in a book in the preface of that book were these words in the opinion of the board of director directors the memo and letters written by Mr Roy in connection with the design testing and manufacturer of these engines are so admirable as
evidence of extreme care foresight and analytical thought that the directors decided to have them printed and bound in order that copies may be available for study as an example to all grades of Rolls-Royce Engineers present and future this book became famous as the Rolls-Royce Bible it was described by
quote the achievement of a thinking designer so how good were these engines what was the quality level so good that the enemy thought they were amazing this is high praise for Roy's engine design from an unexpected Source the engine received praise from the enemy that it
was aiming to Vanquish a young British Airman was instructed to fly to an Airfield in France and landed by mistake at a German base when the Germans inspected the engine they said quote one of the most interesting of hostile a airplane engines on the highest plane and respective design is undoubted Ed L
the rollsroyce and so something that was a theme throughout the history of rollsroyce is they were obsessed with control Royce is obviously obsessed with control so much so this is this is the first a company that was so focused on quality that they risked going to prison
remember this is wartime so it says when the ministry of Munitions tried to force Rolls-Royce to get a dozen or so other firms to make their engines Claud Johnson took the Bold stand saying that he would tear up every drawing and go to prison rather than
risk listen to this he would tear up every drawing and go to prison rather than agree to risk inferior skills of other companies Johnson said that the plan of using other manufacturers was futile and would yield nothing but mountains of scrap he had his way and other companies were not
licensed and they continue with this obsession with uh control after the war when the war ends so like that four-year period of World War I there was essentially like the automobile industry in Britain was essentially Frozen right so they get out after the war and
there's like this boom and then this slump and so there's a lot of other car companies that are merging and so Johnson and Roy were talking like do we are we like do you want to merge our company uh with another like with other car companies due to this like post-war
Market uncertainty and Roy and Johnson are like nope I'd rather retain control even if the even if what I was in control over I want complete control instead of like a larger size right so it says johnon and Roy wanted to be their own men Roy admitted it I prefer to be absolute boss over my own
Department even if it's extremely small rather than to be associated with a much larger technical department over which I only had joint control and so this podcast is heavily focused on Henry Royce but I do want to point out something because Claude J Johnson dies
about a decade before Henry Royce does and it's really it's this highlights that sometimes you need the right partner whether they're a co-founder or not so they can actually complement and like your skill set and actually compensate for the skills that you lack
Claude Johnson was that right partner for Henry Roy this is perhaps an appropriate moment to compare the qualities of the two men and see how well they complimented each other without Roy the Peerless engineer there would have been no Rolls-Royce cars that much is certain but without Johnson's
organizing ability and flare for publicity there would probably been no company to exploit the cars Johnson thought not only of external relations like public relations right but also those inside the company what does that mean as you can imagine Henry R is not a
people person Roy's lack of what today are called interpersonal skills with his managers and employees is welln although he engendered quite remarkable loyalty in spite of being a hard Taskmaster Johnson was more aware of Human Relationships and then it makes this point that I referenced earlier that
maybe Johnson's greatest contribution was the fact that he saved Ro Roy from himself perhaps Johnson's greatest contribution to Rolls Royce was his understanding of Roy himself and his unselfish action in 1911 in taking him on an extended trip through Europe which almost certainly saved Royce's life
Johnson also understood that both Roy and his employees would probably function better better if they were kept apart this is what I referenced earlier that the design element is going to be on its like own island in the south of France and then the production and the
HQ is going to stay in England it was a happy coincidence that Roy's doctors prescribed cair if Royce had stayed in Derby where their Factory is his obsession with detail might well have hampered the commercial viability of the growing organization and so this is how
rollsroyce was actually set up as a distributed company this gives a firsthand view of how the company operated in the 1920s the control of the company was vested in three widely dispersed groups all designing was carried out in the south of France that's where Roy is all the directors
except Roy were based in London and all the production stayed at the Derby works because Roy's word was law throughout the company the Apex of this administrative triangle was undoubtedly the team of designers working under Royce in France this in the south of France this kind of reminded me of if
about like when Steve Jobs came back to Apple like his tight design uh his tight relationship with Johnny I and the other designers like they were secluded it was very hard to even access uh the department they they worked in uh that's what pop to mind when I read this they
worked in monastic seclusion in an office situated in the middle of a village about a quarter of a mile from Rey's house this is wild and probably a good idea to ensure a minimum of distraction the office was forbidden the luxury of a telephone this was the team
responsible for the design of every car and all their components from 1919 until Roy died in 1933 in matters concerning the actual model which eventually went into production Roy's decision was final he is going to die at the age of 70 he's another example of somebody that
loved what they did so much that they did it till he died the night before he died he sat up in bed and Drew a sketch on the back of an envelope which he gave to his nurse and housekeeper telling her to see that the boys in the factory got it safely Henry Royce was quite simply a
genius and thanks to a meeting with cs rolls and his partnership with Claude Johnson the benefits of his genius were spread and shared by the whole country and indeed by The World At Large we have noted his belief in hard work AG Elliott who joined Rolls-Royce and Rose to be
chief engineer and who served the company for 44 years said this everyone who worked with Roy knew that he was a perfectionist they knew how he would test Parts far beyond anything they were likely to have to withstand on the road some found his habit of changing and
improving designs extremely frustrating but he wanted his designers to be improving all the time in Roy's view such an approach saved time in the long run this tradition of obsession with functional Perfection long outlived him and indeed is Paramount in rolles Roy today never one of the world's greatest
man managers Royce was able to concentrate on what he knew best his mind undistracted by the management of the factory Roy kept his staff busy with a continual stream of ideas from his fertile brain Royce's striving for perfection in everything he did was
epitomized by a comment he made to a neighbor after he had stripped and rebuilt the neighbor's lawnmower Roy said whatever is rightly done however humble is noble and that is where I'll leave it highly recommend picking up the book if you buy the book using the link that's in the show notes
on your podcast player you'll be supporting the podcast at the same time you can also find all the Links at Founders podcast.com if you're looking for a further way to support the podcast and you want to listen to my AMA ask me anything episodes where you can ask me
questions directly and then I answer them on the episodes that link uh to subscribe to that is down below as well and available at Founders podcast.com I just published the second of the AMA episode a few days ago that is 287 books down 1,000 to go and I'll talk to you again soon