Anna started the day as usual she Rose by 5:00 a.m. exercised at 5:30 sat for 30 minutes of professional hair and makeup and then was chauffeured to her office where her three assistants were waiting for her her requests for her assistance were constant day and night
weekday and weekend and always delivered in emails with no subject line her schedule was maticulously planned when Anna called a meeting if you didn't arrive early you were late she has been the editorinchief of Vogue since 1988 and is one of the most powerful figures
in media if she wants a fashion designer to have more influence she recommends them to lead a bigger label and she has this power because the owners of these labels seek and follow her advice she advises them not only on their clothes but also how to run their businesses in
turn they are rewarded with coverage in the magazine and more important Anna's personal support and advice and she doesn't wait for the next generation of fashion designers to emerge she financially supports them through the Council of fashion designers of America Vogue fashion fund that support can be
the difference between unimaginable success and bankruptcy editors of Vogue were powerful before Anna had that job but she's expanded that power remarkably making herself a brand that powerful people want to be associated with how she speaks hires fires eats and shops are both topics of obsession and
scrutiny when Anna asks for something she usually wants it done immediately despite the fact that her work emails to her staff go out at all hours it can be addicting working for her other people that work with her praise her directness you always know where you stand with her
and that's better than working for someone who might want to know about your kid's birthday party but can't make up their mind about a headline she has to be involved in everything Anna controls all that she can right down to the ingredients in the food at the Met Gala and maybe most importantly of all
she knows the ecosystem in which she operates better than anyone that was an exert from the book I'm going to talk to you about today which is Anna the biography and is written by Amy Odell before I jump back into the book I want to grab I have uh in my hands printed
out I printed out this interview that Anna did uh with the financial times it was one of their lunch with the Ft series and I think it gives us a good overview of Anna the person and her uh life and career before we jump back into the biography and right here from the title so I read this after I read the
biography and the title of the article uh it says Anna winter I just have to make sure things are being done right if Anna had a personal tagline if you had to describe her that is exactly how I would describe her I have to make sure things are being done right and so this
lunch happens at the Ritz in London and it just gives an overview uh it says winter has presided over the so-called fashion Bible of Vogue for 35 years her celebrity and influence only increasing as the power of magazines and the Vogue brand have waned she's now global Chief
content officer of K Nast a role that has given her oversight of all of K nast's magazines so there 32 different magazines that she's in control of uh the only one that she's not in control of is the New Yorker and then there's a line that becomes very apparent if you
were to read the biography of Anna as well there is a Mythos surrounding Anna that inspires refence akin to that given to royalty and so one thing that's mentioned in this interview is the fact that she's been running Vogue for 35 years you might think hey you know you
do you want to retire you want to step down no there's no way this person is going to relinquish and she says I love what I do and I'm constantly challenged by it and as you'll see she practices complete control regardless of what role she is she happens to be in and so when
she got this promotion in 2020 to be the chief content officer the global Chief content officer of all of the K Nas magazines she winds up firing and and replacing a bunch of high-profile editors and she talks about why she did this and she says the idea uh says Anna
is to make sure everyone felt that it was a different day so she did that in 2020 but she also did that many times as she was going from magazine to magazine before she got to become the editor-in-chief of Vogue the person interviewing Anna for the financial times at one point interned for her at
American Vogue in early 2008 and they talked about the difference before 2008 was essentially like the peak of the magazine industry they had so much more resources and so much more money back then than they do now so it says K Nas was then at the peak of its Financial reputational Powers editors were
chauffeured into work in Black Town Cars even as an intern I had regular access to one a hush would descend through the headquarters when winter stepped into the office on my first day this is so ridiculous on my first day I was warned by a fellow intern never to make eye
contact so I have one of my favorite stories I have a bunch of you know I love Kobe Bryant and Michael Jordan stories I find them fascinating and especially when those two interacted and this advice is first of all terrible the worst thing you could do with a really powerful person is be overly
differential so uh Kobe Bryant's the he's about to play Michael Jordan for the first time ever in the NBA and his teammate goes and he's like hey do you want some advice he goes whatever you do don't look him in the eye and Kobe was like what why would I not look him in
the eye and he says that oh my teammate didn't understand that I'm that too you can't look me in the eye either buddy at that point in his career Jordan was used to people being afraid of him and so people that actually stood up to him and fought back and showed that they could
not be intimidated were actually gained Michael's respect there's another great I think Kobe's 21 at the time uh Phil Jackson invites uh Michael Jordan down to like hang out and talk to Kobe at the Lakers practice and Ahmad Rashad is with Michael Jordan and he's interviewing
Kobe Bryant later on after this happened and they talked about the fact that you know was trash talking him was like oh you can't guard me and then Kobe immedately says well you can't guard me and they start going back and forth and then Kobe's like well you know you got shoes like we can play if you like we
can just solve this right now but even at 21 Kobe refused to back down and he idolized Michael he grew up watching videotapes of him as you know if you've listened to the multiple episodes I've done on Kobe but what happened and this was the fascinating part and this is why
I think this this idea where like you listen to this other intern it's like oh don't look at these people in these in the eyes terrible advice so Michael leaves Kobe's still at practice right Michael leaves he walks out with aad Rashad and he goes I love that dude that
dude's a warrior and the fact that Kobe was not intimidated the fact that Kobe was willing to push back and to say no no like I have talent too I have skill I'm not afraid of you that wound up being the foundation of this big brother relationship that he had with Michael
all the way up until he died and so when I got to this part in the article I just wrote Kobe don't defer show strength I I don't think you should be meek and act like you don't belong there so anyways back to this uh winter came of age in the late 19 1960s in London she says I
grew up at a time when women still left the dinner table so men could smoke their cigars and talk about the real issues of the day she says she had a privileged childhood her mother was a film critic and her father was the editor of the evening standard her relationship with her father something
we're going to talk about a lot about today it's it was maybe the most important relationship that she had um he had a very exacting Manner and he earned uh the nickname called Chile Charlie so they the people that worked with him not his kids and his family they thought he was actually warm and
loving but at work they called him Chile Charlie obviously Anna is known for being like quote unquote the ice queen and very abrupt or whatever the case is I would hear lots of stories about what the strong presence he was in the office she said but we never saw that at home
he was very loving and kind and just wanted to just wanted us to make our own way in life yet it was her father who suggested that winter write editor of Vogue on a career form at school she says I don't think I would have thought about it without him being so specific
and I think that happened that the timing is a little hard for me to understand based on everything I've read about her and I watched two documentaries a bunch of interviews with her and then read this interview in the book as well I think that happened somewhere around age of 16 to 20 uh and
we'll talk about that later the fact that her dad literally gave her like you know shoot for the very top Vogue was the very best you're interested in fashion you're interested in publishing well the very best the Pinnacle of that industry was Vogue so of course you're
going to go for the top uh that seed might have been planted early but Winter's Journey to the top of the Mast head was not a straight climb she left school at 16 I wasn't very good at school to be honest she says and I wanted to be independent and make my own way she took up jobs on the sales floor
of Biba and then herods uh her father helped her land her first editorial job at the Fashion title Harper and queen this is in London before she moves to New York then in the mid-20s she moved to New York where she reveled in an anonymity that she couldn't have had as the daughter of a famous newspaper
editor in London and this is what she said about the time in New York nobody gives a damn where you come from or you where you went to school she starts working at the Harper Bazar magazine and then she moved to New York Magazine this is really important because she was
doing such good work that she caught the attention of this guy named Alexander Lieberman that's important because Alexander liberman was K Nas's editorial director and he's actually the one that's going to recruit her to Vogue in fact liman thought she was so talented
he made up a job for her that did not exist just to get her in the K Nas organization uh that role was creative director of Vogue a job that did not previously exist and much to the annoyance and alarm of then Vogue editor Grace Mirabella this is going to be Grace Mirabella is the one who had the
job before Anna displaces her and this is kind of crazy like think about being Grace right you're the editor and chief of Vogue magazine they have this new person they bring her into Vogue they give her this title that doesn't exist creative director and they say hey she
doesn't report to you but she reports to libran which is Grace's boss that is not a good situation to be in uh from libran Anna said she learned to keep meetings very short he was very very decisive and and this is hilarious he had a desk with nothing on it except a buzzer underneath
so that when he was done with you which was in about five minutes his assistant could come in and whisk you away so imagine this guy's talking to you and you're like where's your hand lra Min he's pressing this button so his assistant can come in and get you out here now there's this is something I
thought I found fascinating so I'll just tell you up front I found uh Anna to be hyper competent and ruthlessly efficient so her meetings SO liberman's meetings right he likes keep them very very short you know 5 minutes at most her meetings are 2 minutes long the first 60 seconds
are guaranteed the second minute is a courtesy and this is something that she does not hide so you can go on YouTube and watch these Vogue does a series with a lot of famous people called like 73 questions and Anna's done it twice and on the second one called 73 more
questions with Anna what I found was fascinating is she was asked the question what is the number one thing that you hope people learn from you and she said to be decisive and clear so before she takes over American Vogue she actually is sent in 1985 by Lian and cond Nas owner Sai new house so s new
house was a major character in last week's episode I love how all this connects he was a major character in the story of Larry G GOI and a major client for Larry gagosian he owned uh K Nast at this time they send her to London right so she's going to be the editor of British folk this is what does she do
she does exactly what they they talked about in the opening uh when she was promoted in 2020 she fired most of the staff and then as a result of the way she fired them this is where she starts getting this this reputation I guess this nickname that continues with her to
this day they call her the ice queen so she's doing this job in London but she does not want to be there because she she was married at the time uh Anna's return to London was challenging in other ways my husband was chief of child psychiatry at Columbia University and he
and he did not want to give up his position so we commuted quite a bit I had my son Charlie and then I was pregnant with my daughter so I felt like was endlessly pregnant and eventually it seemed to me that staying in London long term wasn't going to be viable she comes
back to New York to edit House and Garden for a few months before new house offered her the job that her father had chosen all those years ago Mirabella this is so ruthless mirab Bella learned on TV that she had been fired liman in new house leaked it to the Press instead
of telling her and she had worked Grace Mirabella if I'm not mistaken had worked at vog for 37 years that is ruthless uh Winter's position hasn't always been secure in the week of the 1990 recession vogue's ad Pages fell new house advised winter which who was sometimes resident about Resident about featuring
advertisers products in her pages to follow the money and she did now fast forward to present day it is probable that K Nas cannot afford to lose her advertisers run ads in Vogue not only because they think it will sell clothes but also to secure Winter's favor and
advice and this is kind of crazy Vogue actually sells something called the Vogue 100 it is a private club whose members pay $100,000 a year just for access to Anna uh delegation is not among Anna's managerial talents she is notorious for controlling every Last Detail God is in the details she replies
I am not a creative person I cannot draw I cannot sketch I cannot make anything I just have to make sure things are done right okay so now I want to go back to the biography I want to go right into her childhood and the influence that her father had though she spoke often in
interviews about her father as an inspiration she almost never over the course of her entire career discussed her mother despite how close they were Anna's professional ambition and ruthlessness seemed to stem specifically from her father so one trait that she picked up from her father was the fact
that her father was a voracious reader Anna was a voracious reader from a very young age she still is to this day also her father whose name is Charles kept a very strict professional schedule that comes up over and over again in anything that you read or watch uh about Anna the
fact that she's up at 5:00 a.m. she's working out she's working he works 24 hours a day now she's talking about her childhood uh looking back there wasn't any sense that he was an absent father he taught us all he taught all of us meaning all her siblings what work ethic
is and how important it is to love what you do in life she was able to witness his passion for his work firsthand when she visited his office she thought the office of a newspaper of a magazine it was completely exciting that she knew she wanted to work in publishing and the
way she reflects on this later on in life is that she says that the gospel in our house was the newspaper and so I'm going to read a bunch of other descriptions about our father and it like father like daughter there's a lot of this sounds like Anna Charles was by
no means easy to be around in Daily interactions he was quiet cold and exacting Charles had to make decisions constantly and therefore made decisions rapidly he was so frightening that people would bend over like a field of wheat under a wind as he went past that is exactly the description of when uh
being an intern in vogue's office how they would like there's there's a ton of these stories where if you see Anna in an elevator people will literally run out of the elevator so they don't have to ride up with her that is not unique to her there's a bunch of examples in
this book that that I've heard said you could replace the word Anna winter with Steve Jobs and it's the exact same thing people were afraid of being stuck in close proximity with Steve too he'd start asking questions about what you're doing I think in some cases I don't know
if this was a like a myth but you know supposedly he's like fired people for bad bad answers to his questions in an elevator ride but back to her father staff were thrilled when he offered a single word of Praise excellent on the bottom of their copy he commanded respect and they were eager to please
him same thing for Anna he was fascinating and we were all en throwed by him so again that all these words could be applied this is exactly how people that work with her uh describe her as well and the author makes that point here his staff would later notice the same bulletproof discipline in his
eldest daughter Anna's mom they called Noni and this is the traits that she got from her mom non was bright witty and critical with a sharp eye for the weaknesses of others but she was also great fun to be with as long as you weren't her Target Anna his friends and
colleagues would say the same thing about her before I move on I want to go back to this idea that he offers her father would just write like one-word responses Anna does the same thing on copy this is something that uh the first time I disc I discovered this was
actually when I was reading all these books on David Oggy David ogy says something that I loved he says I believe in the dogmatism of brevity and he understood he actually worked way before he was an advertising agency founder he worked for this secret agent right during World War II this guy named
Stevenson Stephenson winds up being one of Ian Fleming's Inspirations for the character James Bond and what David ogy was talking about in all the books he wrote is that one thing he learned on how to run an organization that he learned from Stephenson is that to become a master of the tur memo that's
the exact word he used Master of the tur memo when you'd send something to his boss right when you send something to Stevenson you would get a reply back in one of three ways yes no or speak and if he wrote speak on whatever you hand it to him that means you got to get up and
go to his office and talk to him and the reason I bring that up is because when David Oggy says hey I believe in the dogmatism of brevity I think Anna would agree with that as well and there's many times when she was described just like this her manner of speaking was like her
father's clipped so she's going to combine her fascination with publishing with her fascination with fashion uh so it says she stood and walked she's 16 years old what I'm describing to you she stood and walked like a model in a fashion spread she would exhibit a
certain fashionable confidence for Anna it wasn't just enough to look good she wanted to be admired as the best dressed person in the room and her voracious reading is mentioned yet again uh she kept up with everything by reading voraciously books newspapers magazines literary journals 17 the magazine 17 was
my dream she confessed I couldn't wait for it to come every month you're going to notice a lot of the things that I'm going to pull out are very repetitive in the sense that they appear when she's a young woman 16 and they still she's still this way in her 70s she's very
disciplined she's very hard on herself and she wants to be special she wants to be a part from the crowd so then it goes into Anna's lifelong adherence to very strict Fitness and diet regimen uh this starts when she's a very young girl this is 1964 she winds up reading a book on
dieting which has a one sentence regimen that she would follow eat fewer than 60 gram of carbohydrates a day and so this avoidance of carbs there's actually a it's actually a movie uh that came out I just watched it again CU my wife and daughter love the movie It's called The
devil we's Prada and at first I was like I I'm not going to you know I was doing a bunch of research on Anna but I don't have to watch that movie but then I get to the end of this book and her daughter Anna's daughter watches the preview with her and I think the movie came out like
2009 or maybe even earlier 2006 and Anna's daughter's like wow they they captured you perfectly mom and in the and in the movie It's mentioned multiple times that like you're not supposed to eat carbs so anyways uh she's very very disciplined not only in her personal
like Fitness and diet but also in her work and I think that they feed on each other so it says Anna's judgments of others were ruthless but she was hardest on herself she did not want to be part of a group that already existed she wanted to be in her own rarified air and
what's amazing is how much discipline she had when she was a teenager so she's in a she's a teenager she's going out at night with one of her girlfriends they're going to these very like hip clubs and you're probably thinking oh she's going to go and Pary like nope everything she does this is why like
she's very easy to interface with I found like studying her very fascinating cuz she's very everything is in service of her Mission so her and her friend with the last name of lasi were not trying to get drunk they would actually not drink any alcohol they drink like
Shirley Temple or Coke and they would leave an hour after coming to the club so why are they going there for Anna going out was never about going wild visiting the clubs was more about reconnaissance than excess amidst a crowd of the fashionable she was studying so she stops going to formal
schooling when she's 16 because she says I was desperate to get out into the world and get on with things I wanted to work and she certainly knew she like her vague Direction was hey I'm going to work in publishing and I would love to be able to to combine publishing and fashion and this is where she's filling
out like this career form and this is where she's having the conversation with her dad that changes her life forever at the bottom of it she she's telling the story now okay these are her words at the bottom of it it said care objectives and I said what shall I do how do I fill
this out and he said well you write that you want to be the editor of Vogue of course and that was it it was decided and so the entire time I'm reading this book Anna has such founder mentality that I forget that she's technically an employee right she didn't start con Nas con Nas I didn't even know
was still a private company it's founded like over a hundred years ago and but you'll see from the very get-go she thinks like an entrepreneur so her dad hooks her up with this woman named Barbara Griggs who works for her dad she's the fashion edit Ed editor at the
evening standard which is what Charles is running right he says hey I need a favor can you I'd be very grateful will you take my daughter Anna out to lunch I think she's very set on fashion career and you know can you give her a little guidance and this is what I mean about
the fact that she's just very consistent from the time she's a very young person to all the way up until the present day Griggs took Anna to lunch and was immediately impressed this girl was just a child but she had an adult Poise and a of purpose all she wanted from me was
some information this is like the most founder mentality thing ever right all she wanted from me was some information what she didn't want at all was any guidance or tips on how to manage her career that she was perfectly willing and able to figure out on her own so she's going to start working at this
magazine called Harpers and queen she is still in London she's going to wind up working at this magazine for five years and this is what she talks about at this time the fact that she was learning on the job I learned how to go into the market and choose choose clothes I
learned how to choose talent I learned how to collaborate I learned how to do a layout I learned how to write a caption I was thrown into my career frankly with ignorance I knew nothing you had to learn everything and you had to do everything remember what I said at the
beginning if she had a tagline it would be I have to make sure I have I have to make sure that things are done right she was like this when she was young an it was a perfectionist not the type to forget a dress or lose some jewelry so in fashion it attract a lot of kind of
like lazy there's no nice way to put this it just attracts like a lot of lazy dumb people and you have this unbelievable iron discipline whipped smart crazy Fierce work ethic and of course she's gonna go she's going to dominate these people and it talks about the fact that people would would follow
her and they don't even understand why they would follow her she just said hey you know I started at this magazine I didn't really know anything I was kind of thrusted into this career in like a sea of ignorance and this is why I always say belief comes before ability
because even though she didn't know what she was doing she just believed that she could figure it out she did not second guess herself so people were not left wondering what to do she immediately everywhere she goes you drop this her into any kind of environment and she's
going to immediately take control and start leading and because she presents herself as so confident to the outside world people like okay well I guess I'll just follow her and so page after page after page you'll see a note where I just say perfectionist confident in her taste and judgment she does this over
and over again she showed enormous respect for the fashion pieces that were loan to the magazine everything they borrowed had to be sent back in the precise condition it arrived in down to the tissue paper wrapping that's Anna's insistent this was not normal right if
you're if the magazine gets to lent something it has to go back in that pristine condition uh Anna's own style and grooming was attended to as if she were constantly starring in the fashion editorial she was meticulous about everything she had the power to get people to do what she wanted with a look
or a sentence she was attractive and interesting and conveyed air of mystery more about her discipline her ambition the fact that she believes quality of work over feelings Anna's power in those days lay in her silent she knew there was a lot going on in her head but she
was not sharing it uh there was a lot of drinking back then said Anna who never liked alcohol but I was always the first person to leave I had to get up and go to work in the morning so it talks about the fact that just like G GOI and when we talked last week there the like the
social aspect of your job looks like oh you might be hanging out you might be going to parties or clubs or events for people like goian and for people like Anna winter those are just marketing and sales showcases in Disguise they are working when they're doing that Anna did
not bother with niceties if a photographer came in with a portfolio she didn't like there was no pretending that she would think about it to spare someone's feelings and it was Frank about her ambition even as a lowly Junior fashion editor which is what she is now American Vogue was the job that
she really really wanted Anna quickly tired of doing photo shoots she recognized early that she did not want to be the person out in the field creating the content but the person in the office making decisions just like her father I want to be the one in charge she also did something very smart
at a young age she realized that the physical location she is in should match her ambition levels she thought she was that the fashion industry in London was like the Backwater and I need to get to New York because she thought that New York was the center of the universe and
so she's going to work in New York for a long time event she's going to go s back to London but anytime she sent back to London she knows it's temporary I have to be in New York because New York is the center of the universe and it fuels her ambition even greater even more and
this is one of the things I respect about her most she just had a singular purpose and she knew what her mission was and she put all of her energy into accomplishing that mission mission all her energy into what the direction that she was going how she felt about Vogue is how I feel about Founders right Anna
had one concern when she was on the job and it wasn't adopting friendly americ manners her Focus was singular she was very clear-minded about wanting to do work that she thought was the best over and over again they're going to talk about people that interact with her like
they they they can't believe her work ethic they were in awe of Anna's work ethic she really had no calms about being completely focused she was just on her path to what she needed to do period the end in an office people kind of clown around they take breaks they
gossip she never did any of that she wasn't in it for the fun and game she was in it for the work and I think she's 26 when they're describing her this you know what it made me think of well let me finish the sentence I'll tell you what it made me think of she knew damn
well that she wanted to run Vogue and so I I read uh two biographies on Coco Chanel I wind up reading all the biographies I can find and surprisingly there's not that many of them but the the biography on Coco Chanel I read all the way back for episode 199 if you haven't listened to that episode you
really should she said something in that book that is made me think of a 26-year-old Anna and she goes I am not here to have fun or to spend money like water I am here to make a fortune and Anna really does have a Founder's Soul she just does not like taking orders she's going to wind up getting fired
multiple times actually and this is why I said like she should have been a Founder I mean obviously things worked out well for her so she winds up getting fired by the editor-in chief and what's fascinating is I'm going to skip over that story but I want to talk about what
she took away from that she's looking back when she was young and you know kind of not even uncontrollable you know she just she anytime she's in a room she's just going to immediately take charge and she she's looking back through the eyes of experience and I thought this was fascinating so I just
want to read uh it's about two paragraphs to you I think it's you'll find this interesting I was fire this is Anna speaking I was fired by the editor and chief who told me that I was too European at the time I didn't know what he meant but in retrospect I think it
meant that I was obstinate that I wouldn't take Direction and that I totally ignored my editor's need for credit thinking about that chapter in my life what I find most interesting is to realize how little things have changed talented but totally self-absorbed young English girls now come to see me with
some regularity and with some regularity they tend not unlike myself way back to have an almost total disregard for re ERS with a bit of regret I also realize that I have moved closer to the position of the editor who fired me that is a sign of maturity that is a sign of
learning from experience just want to bring out another sentence here about the fact that New York and matched the city matched her intensity and her ambition Anna felt like New York made her even more ambitious audiences were bigger more money was at stake editors took everything more seriously it was a
better work environment for Anna who was intense now again let's go back to the fact that she jumps she has a bunch of different jobs sometimes they're in London sometimes they're in New York but the way she's described it's this is what I love about her it's just so
remarkably consistent she was always her own person she didn't really listen to any structure because whether she was or not she was the boss and so even at another job we all knew that she wanted to be fashion editor Vogue that she was looking onto bigger things oh this is
this is fantastic the fact that she just loves to move at a rapid pace and make very fast decisions Anna would move through the fitting with the same rapid pace of an assembly line she had all the looks planned out in advance and was ready for try-ons fittings were quick
because Anna was decisive she never said that looks great or got excited she would look at them and then say okay because Anna had planned almost everything in advance she often didn't even have to show up to shoot she would send her assistant instead she was also insane M ly
talented from young age and was obvious to other people and so she's working at this magazine called viva viva is actually going to go out of business but the important reason the reason I want to bring this up is because it was the work the high quality work she was doing there got the attention this is the
first time people people that were very important to her future future career plans so this is Alexander liberman who's again the editorial director of Ky Nast he actually talking to the people that own Viva and he's like well this is fascinating I noticed that I love what
you're doing with via first of all and I noticed you have an English woman on the map M head and so what that job actually did for Anna was doing exactly what she needed and that was making her name to very important and influential people that was happening in 1978 so Anna would
have been 29 at the time and so she winds up working at New York Magazine and she is so prepared and goes over the top compared to like the rest of the people uh that they could have hired for the job that I just want to pull out one line that's that's hilarious and they uh
they were describing Anna says Ed this woman is amazing we're all going to going to be working for her someday she wore high heels every day which didn't B she's also funny and you're going to see that right here she wore high heels every day which didn't bother her because she said it's not that far from
the front door to the limo on her first day at work she brought in her own big white table instead of working at the same crappy desks as everyone else she said I have I prefer to have a large white surface with which to view clothes and accessories against she was
singularly driven by by professional advancement and even at New York Magazine which was not known for fashion by any stretch of the imagination it's going to be high standards and quality over everything there's a great line from Steve Jobs that I thought of when I got to the section he said be a yard
stick of quality some people are not used to an environment where Excellence is expected when the photos came back Anna killed the story without explanation it didn't matter that this was her assistant's first shoot or they had cast someone notable as the model
this was something she would do again and again over the course of her career and once she decided there was usually no way to get her to change her mind she knew that killing stories was necessary to let people know that you had standards she had standards and unlimited confidence she's actually
introduced so a lot of people are impressed with her work that she's doing at New York Magazine and so they connect her to have a meeting with Grace Mirabella remember Grace Mirabella is the editor and chief of vog this time she has the job that Anna wants so they
go to this meeting if you're expecting any kind of difference from Anna that's just not going to happen impressed with Anna's work in New York she arranged a meeting with Mirabella mirab Mirabella asked Anna what job she would like at Vogue and Anna replied yours that ended the
meeting and so imagine your Mirabella because now we're going to fast forward this is where liman is gonna give her the the job that didn't exist right he offered Anna the title of the creator director which had never been used before right and so imagine like you just had a meeting with her she like
yeah I want your job and then you have this person coming in who is not supposedly you're like second in command but is not reporting to you and reports to your boss like come on man that's that's not a good situation to be in and then who is the kind of person that is
in this number two role it says she was being offered the number two position at Vogue but Anna wasn't a number two sort of person and this is one of the most fascinating parts of the book for me because we really see what she want wanted to do and how she was different
from her predecessor now she's going to work underneath her for a little bit then she's going to be sent to Britain so it's going to I think it's like a 3 or four year period something like that before she actually gets her job but it is fascinating as vogue's creative director she worked right under
Mirabella mirabella's management style on the other hand was antithetical to Anna the meetings where clothing was selected when Mirabella was in charge could last 8 to 10 hours it was a belabored conversation Mirabella wanted to analyze she didn't just look at something something and say yes or no
one of her favorite comments was this needs more I need more what more meant was often anyone's guess Mirabella analyzed the looks to death meanwhile her boss is much more like Anna liman had a lot more in common with Anna he liked quick decisions encouraged editors
to trust their first instinct and didn't dilly dally over anything and so when I get to this section Anna starts reminding me of Steve Jobs again there's one this is excellent book I've read it three times I'll probably read you know another five uh throughout my life it's
the last time I covered I think it was episode 281 I think the title of the episode's working with Steve Jobs the title of the book is called creative selection inside Apple's design process during the Golden Age of Steve Jobs and really I love this idea of like The Importance of Being decisive and concise
and being easy to understand for for your employees right and the guy writing the book his name is Ken Kenda he worked and demo directly to Steve and this is what he talked about it's exactly what's taking place in this book Steve was at the Center of all circles he made all
the important product decisions from my standpoint as an individual programmer demoing to Steve was like visiting the Oracle of Deli the demo was my question and Steve's response was the answer while the pronouncements from the Greek oracle often came in the form of
confusing riddles this was not true with Steve he was always easy to understand he would either approve a demo or he would request to see something different next time you are not going to find an example where Steve is in a meeting for 8 to 10 hours and he's saying give me
more give me more and no one knows what the hell more is so Mirabella writes an autobiography later on and she's talking about this this period of her career I want to pull out just two paragraphs from her autobiography and she's talking about Anna who obviously is obsessed with control she'd sit in on editorial
board meeting shaking her head obviously disagreeing with everything I said or did and biting her lip to keep from saying so then she' go behind my back and redo outs bring in new art circumvent me and my fashion editors and take charge of planning fashion sittings
with photographers when she couldn't bypass my editors she'd harass and criticize them and so Mirabella is actually going to get a slight reprieve because the fashion the editor-in-chief of British fogue who was in that position for 21 years actually steps down and so they decide in 1985 they're
going to move Anna and let her be editor-in-chief of British uh Vogue and so she's sent across the pond to Britain now this this is when I already mentioned this earlier the fact that she gets there and she proceeds to fire everyone at British fogue who uh predated her obviously she wants
complete control and she didn't think they were they she thought a lot of them more lazy and she wanted to to drastically uh increase the quality of the magazine but this is when she gets this brand that I think she still has to this day that she is they call these are
the words these These are not my words obviously they're in the book they brand Anna as Fashion's indomitable and new ice queen a character characterization that For Better or Worse would stick so there's nothing in this book that is going to be new to you or I if you've listened to Founders a
bunch and if you read biographies of these super type a highly driven entrepreneurs there's no there's no behavior that she's doing that we haven't seen before the difference lays in how they would be described so you know there's a lot of people that describe like a Steve Jobs like you know
tyrannical rude control Obsessed the same behavior by an is just being described as indomitable and ice queen and and all these other characterizations but it is the same behavior I don't think it is unique to her at all and everything that Anna does just like everything Steve Jobs did just
spoke to the fact that they were constantly trying to up the quality of the products that they're making and we see that here anna ran the magazine with iron fisted discipline she wanted the staff to be on time work hard and run everything by her for approval a stark
departure from her predecessor who allowed photographers to come into the office and select their photos and improve their layouts now this is hilarious she also doesn't give a who you are so there's a guy named Lord Snowden he was a photographer who married Princess Margaret and it says
Anna came in and reduced a shoot of his to a photo the size of a postage stamp somebody on her staff told Anna you cannot do that because it is Snowden and then Anna's this is Anna's response and she just ignored me Anna started her own workday shockingly early to the previous
administration uh they felt much greater pressure to work in Anna's hyper efficient Stu style but Anna also got her staff raises they paid her more something that was nearly impossible to do Under the previous administration and you could also see why she wanted to
replace much of the staff they just it was a staff full of bad habits and so even the idea is like okay before you go on a shoot like I want to see all the looks and people like what are you talking about like why would you do that we'll just shoot it and then afterwards
we'll show you what the results is and then you pick the best and it's like there's no way in hell we're doing that the sheer fact that they had to wheel clothes into her office before any shoots was wildly different and unheard of Anna reviewed every photo from every
shoot herself which also stunned the staff she and she also demanded endless re-shooting if it did not involve editing Vogue she did not address it she had no time for small talk so as Anna was saying earlier the fact that she felt her time in London was untenable they had two young kids her husband is
is in New York she wants to get back to New York eventually she goes back to New York she spends a little bit of time in another condas publication but I want to skip forward to the part where she actually gets what she's wanted all her life and this is happening in 1988 so Anna is around 39 years old when
this happens and so it says Grace Marabella was sitting in her office when she got a call from her husband uh Grace this is ludicrous what is this all about and so he's telling her about the fact that there was like this gossip like there was a rumor or gossip around the
fact that Grace Marabella has been fired from Vogue and Mirabella told her husband she like I don't know what you're talking about so I got to call you back she go goes upstairs she's like okay I guess I got to go to liman's office and she found libran sitting there I guess he's just there with his
desk remember his empty desk in that button that makes you go away and he says Grace I'm afraid it's true and so there was just some things that Grace was doing that there's just no way that Anna would do so liman's assistant is getting interviewed and it says uh the
pages of the issue in this room you actually see this in the documentary it's called Uh the September issue where all the pictures or what's about to go on the issue right they're all put up on a board usually in order and then they also have this thing called the book
where like they print out looks like almost like a like a homemade copy of the the issue they're working on and it's delivered to Anna's house every night and then she like leaves notes on it and brings it back the next day it's in uh the movie The Devil's product too but anyways they have this boarded and
fogue where like you put everything up and there's often times where like there's something going in the magazine and it says mirror B didn't know the names of some of the people in the artists featured in an own magazine and you have people saying I was shocked at
what Grace didn't know that there's no way that's going to happen uh with Anna winter and again one thing that Grace didn't understand is that relationships run the world uh Mirabella had another problem that Anna did not a nearly non-existent relationship with Sai new house the owner of the company the
ultimate decision maker and you're not making a relationship with him that is a massive mistake uh she never grew comfortable with him and intentionally avoided him and if Mirabella wasn't inside new House's ear as the singular voice and Authority on Vogue who would be that was Anna winter and so Anna
immediately takes over starts making changes remember go back to the fact that when she's giving that interview on 73 more questions what does she want she want she to be decisive and clear the infamous hours long runthrough were now over in minutes remember they were
taking 8 to 10 hours on this this is how Anna does it Anna would just go yes nope nope yes yes no goodbye under Mirabella every request had to be written down but Anna complained of drowning in paper she didn't want you to write anything down come to the office ask your question and
then get out with Anna you get two minutes the second minute is a courtesy and so I was thinking about the section A lot and I was like okay well she wants you to be decisive and concise what's the opposite of being decisive inconcise it's fluff well there's no fluff if you
only have 60 seconds this time constraint forced es you to get to the essence of the issue it reminds me of Churchill did this later on when they were fighting the Nazis in World War II he talks about for Pete's sake cut your memos in half and he has this great line on why this is so important it's
interesting that all these people are British olave Churchill and they love the dogmatism of brevity maybe there's something there but uh Churchill says something that's fantastic he says it is slothful not to compress your thoughts and so Churchill would even do that
where he's like you cannot write more than a page on this absolutely not and I love this idea of whether it's a constraint by document length or time the constraints force you to get to the essence let's go back to her expanding her power again she is not just a magazine editor editor and chief of
Vogue was her goal she's so much bigger than that now Anna viewed her social life as part of her work no matter what the what or who the party was for Anna controlled the guest lless by focusing so much on the social side this is her in my argument Maybe I'm not not it's
not maybe it is this is her most important idea even people who knew Vogue was powerful before she became editor-in Chief underestimated how powerful it was Anna did not underestimate how powerful that position is and then she didn't stop there she extended that power beyond a magazine
which is why she's so much bigger people would say she's bigger than vog is today so check this out by focusing so much on the social side Anna was asserting herself as more than a magazine editor by virtue of editing Vogue she was necessarily a leader in the fashion
industry but she also seemed intent on using her position to become the leader of the fashion industry not a leader the leader of the fashion industry and so I want to pause there I want to go all the way back to the very beginning of the book the intro of this podcast right
where it's like hey she had been the editor of Vogue since 1988 she's one of the most powerful figures and it talked about so they're talking about the power she has but then the intro was also about how she wields it and she wields it in ads advice and money the fact that
if she wants a young designer to have more influence she will go and call up the heads the people that make those decisions the people owning the fashion labels the people that actually listen to her and seek her advice because she has a relationship not just because she's a magazine editor and then if
you're on her team if you're in her good grace she put you in the magazine so everybody all the uh editors before Anna had the same had a very similar asset right she expands that asset because yeah of course I could picture the magazine what is that going to make it's
going to you know people are going to buy your stuff it's going to literally Drive sales going to change trajectory of your business but how she goes and says hey that's not enough like I have a lot of power I can either you know they said something like build build your
brand or or maybe help push you into bankruptcy or whatever the case is so it's like okay I'm I'm more than just distribution though because now she goes out and intentionally builds all these relationships with the most powerful people in the industry then they seek her advice then says hey I got a bunch
of young people and why don't we start this other fund that's the fund I mentioned earlier the Council of fashion designers of America Vogue fashion fund so usually get if you win that award you get a couple hundred grand I try to figure this out I don't think they get
any equity in return for that I thought it was like oh is this like kind of like a y combinator model so like oh let's identify you know like is this like a seed investment for fashion designers it looks like the money is just you get money and mentorship I I did not see
that Vogue or Anna gets equity in the actual company but the reason that was also smart is because as the years go by now you have all these well-known designers that credit Anna with giving essentially breaking them into the industry and so every year you might have a dozen half a dozen more people
that become more and more loyal to her they go out they have fantastic careers they build relationships and this this cycle just keeps building upon itself but I love this idea that she just saw this is the the the way I'm going to phrase this is like she saw the industry
the potential for the industry and how she she can expand the power and the influence that her individually and then Vogue as a brand has by just combining all these people that are already in the ecosystem and then intentionally putting them together in a way in which when
they work together it becomes stronger and as a result the the what she created the whole is greater than the sum of its parts and this becomes obvious the more the deeper you get into this book if you choose to read it but also is obvious if you watch the September issue you and
you will see the influence and literally like fashion designers will change their entire line if they get a negative feedback or if Anna doesn't buy in so the power she has cannot be understated the way in which she accumulated the power was fascinating she aligned
everybody's interest with her at the center so Anna is also one of in my opinion one of the greatest examples of this idea that you can build a great career on a handful of principles that you just repeat over a long period of time repe ition is the foundation of clarity of thought and we see that here
so she's complete control of Vogue uh she's doing all these photo shoots it says photo shoots could cost six figures and Anna did not feel that she had to publish the result just because they were expensive she killed entire shoots to drive home the understanding that editors and photographers who wanted to
have their work in her magazine had to do an extraordinary job she knew that re-shooting would be difficult and stressful but this was exactly how Anna built up Vogue by insisting on getting what she judged as excellent and making sure no one who worked for her ever got
lazy she expected as much from her team as she expected from herself and so I mentioned earlier the fact that at Apple Steve Jobs with the center of all circles it's the same thing at vog to the point where it has its own acronym awok the final Mark of approval on
stories which had to be delivered before it would get in the magazine were her initials plus a w awok would become a verb in the office as in is it awok and then another thing that she had in common with Steve Jobs is she respected people that gave a damn passion is universally respected if you
were passionate about something she would respect that the thing that she couldn't stand was that if you didn't give a crap this was explicitly stated in in Ed cill Ed kill's the co-founder of Pixar the person that worked with Steve Jobs the longest consecutive time
I think they worked together for like 26 consecutive years or something like that I just reread Ed's book and and did another podcast on it was episode 317 and he talked about this he says Steve never questioned me for all his insistence he respected passion if I believed in something that strongly he
seemed to feel it couldn't be all wrong literally same words that are in this book if you were passionate about something she respected that and so she trains her ire staff to like live up to the rapid Pace that she works at the ruthless quality standards and so a lot of people uh the person that wrote the
devil devil weare's prct was actually one of her assistants and then she wind up quitting because it was such an intense work environment and you know a lot of people can't handle that that's a good thing about being an adult like you can self- select into the the kind of
work environment that you want to like be a part of and you know she's Anna's like well these are my standards this is what I expect of you and if you can survive then that's great but if not like she will ruthlessly cut these people out and a lot of it is just because like
there isn't a lot of you know kind of American culture is like hey how you doing and like there's like this there's like like an introduction before we get to the actual point Anna skips over all that she just goes right to the point we talked about earlier how the fact that
she sends constant emails to her assistants all day long and you can tell that she wants to get to that point because they don't even have a subject line but what's fascinating is like she walks into the office as soon as she goes into the office she just starts speaking it's not like hey good morning
anything like that they are expected to have like a blank Word document up cuz as soon as she walks in the door they have to start furiously typing everything she says as soon as she walks in because as soon as she arrives she just starts talking and issuing to-dos
without periods or pauses and you see this also in the movie The Devil Wears Prada and so a large part of this book also is you know saying that they're trying to tell you the other side of this like this is how Anna does thing this is her perspective and then this is
the people that either like it or in many cases the people that kind of criticize her for this and I can't tell you why but what popped into my mind when I got to this section reading about the people that you know obviously don't like that is a conversation that Johnny
I was being interviewed I think by Vanity Fair a few years after Steve Jobs died he talked about some of the most important lessons that he learned uh with Steve and the first one was like this ruthless Focus that just you know Steve was the most remarkably focused person that Johnny ever met in his life
and you know there was you just realized all there's levels to focus and Steve's on a different level but the second thing he said was very interesting actually Steve calls Johnny Vain and I thought that was a very like fascinating choice of words and this is the story
that Johnny tells and Johnny says I remember asking Steve about this it could be perceived that his in his critique of a piece of work that he was a little harsh and we had just been putting our heart and soul into this I asked him this is after so what happened
before this conversation is they had a meeting meeting did not go well Steve was understandably upset and Johnny's going to ask hey you know can you Mo moderate the way you deliver this message so let's go back to this I remember asking Steve about this it could be perceived that in his crique of
a piece of work he was a little harsh and we had been putting our heart and soul into this and I asked him could we not moderate the things that we said a little and he said why and Johnny said because I care about the team and Steve said this brutally brilliant insightful
thing he said no Johnny you're just really vain you just want people to like you I'm surprised at you Johnny I thought you held the workup as the most important not how you believed you were perceived by other people and then Johnny says and I was terribly cross because I knew he was right and so in my
notebook I have that this I transcribe this this exchange and I the only part that's bolded is I thought you held up the work as the most important it's obvious when you study the careers of Steve Jobs or Anna winter they hold up the work as most important now this is not I don't
think being you know direct or even like really harsh or you know a dictator is a prerequisite to doing great work I'm not saying everybody should do this look what Steve Jobs did you're an adult you got to figure out how you want to manage your own company right no one should
tell you that no one should make that decision for yourself it's definitely not a prerequisite like John D Rockefeller arguably you know Charlie Munger would tell you he created the greatest company of all time he was ruthless to his competitors but inside of his office the people work for him
his Partners loved him his employees would say he never said a cross word he never raised his voice he was never rude so it's clearly not a prerequisite to building a great company but the the main point here is like putting up the work right the founder is the guardian
of the company soul and you're what you're one of the thing you're guardian of is to make sure that the work the quality of the work is most important and Anna definitely did that even if she could be harsh or said complaining to Anna was pointless because Anna would
just say this is not a girls boarding school deal with it yourself and this always on very fastpac very decisive work environment is clearly the one that she wanted to operate and work in it says Anna was the rare exception who didn't seem to need such an escape to deal with the pressure of her work and
so I read that sentence and I immediately came to mind the podcast I just did on herb kellerer who's the genius founder of Southwest Airlines that's episode 322 if you haven't listened to it and one of my favorite things that I ever read about herb I loved herb he was a character it's just
like incredible and it's pretty incredible that he's like the greatest undoubtedly the greatest Airline founder of all time but he was asked like you undergrow undergo a lot of stress all the time how do you handle it and he says I don't handle it I like it and I
feel that uh Anna is the same way like obviously she's in a high strust position but she chose to be in that position and I think she likes it okay so we always talk about the fact that the story of the father is usually embedded in the son right this comes up over and over again in every biography
what's interesting is like there was a a weird strain there's a lot more detail in the book I skipped over a lot of that but like her dad was like a Serial cheater he was like constantly cheating on and not being not faithful to Anna's mom they wind up getting divorced later
on I think after like 30 something years but then this caused Anna a lot of trouble because like she discovered some of her father's Affairs when she was still like a teenager and obviously that caused a lot of pain and trouble in their family what is interesting is that
Anna repeats that same mistake so she is married uh to the father of her two children they're married for like 19 years she winds up meeting this guy named Shelby who's also married uh they wind up I think the two married couples like wind up sitting next to each other at like a like some Vogue Event and then
Shelby invites Anna out to lunch and they like I think almost like immediately start an affair winds up destroying her marriage I'll get to what her husband says in a little bit that might uh like shine some light on this but her and Shelby went up being together thing for like 15 years they
never get married they don't even live together so you can clearly see that Anna like put her career was like her very her top her top priority but he was a very successful and Powerful entrepreneur and she was attracted to power not only in W of being her lover
but in and like her friends are like the top people that got to the top of the profession in whatever field they're in and there was just some interesting uh paragraph about this like came to my attention and so it says looks didn't seem to be what Anna Prim admired in men
after a lunch with Bill Gates when Microsoft was on the rise she came back to the office and talked about how attractive she thought he was and the person she's saying to this her last name is Jones and she goes Jones just thought God she's attracted to people who are powerful Anna knew from her own
father how painful having a cheating parent was yet here she was inflicting the same pain on her kids and so her ex-husband whose name is d Avid Schaefer he's the psychiatrist he's been on record he says that uh a lot of people debate like does Anna have the ability to empathize with other people and he
says very clearly that Anna is not capable of empathy and so I want to go back to this idea that she constantly expanded the power and what vog could be and so something she helped create is this Met Gala which I I had heard the name I knew people got like kind of put
on like fancy costumes I guess as like my understanding of this or I guess they would call fashion look like costumes to me but I I didn't even know owned it and it turns out like when you when you start reading about it's like oh it hit you right away it's like oh
the Met Gala is an asset it's the way to expand her power in this very valuable industry the reason it's an asset is because it's invite only so the guest list is completely 100% controlled by Anna and so this is her her push to be much larger larger than just a magazine
and so they sell tables to people that are approved you can only not only does a person person buying the table usually a company have to be approved by Anna but then even after you buy the table if you say hey I want to bring five guests Anna has to approve all the guests that
you bring even after you bought the table and then she also has to approve of where the people sit and this is why I was like oh this is like a business conference this is what she's doing it's a fashion business conference you just dress up and we call and it gets covered
in the media but that's exactly what it is Anna wanted to mix everyone up so that business deals Could Happen Anna wanted people to meet other people and that's where a lot of business came from it's part of building the industry then it really clicked for me when I got to
the sentence like that is what she's doing she's not just building up a personal brand She's Not Just building up Vogue she's building up the entire industry and so she adds yet another asset starts out with the asset of Vogue adds them Met Gala then you do this fund the cfda Vogue fashion fund I've been
telling you about and funding new designers she's describing why I really started to understand more fully how hand-to mouth these businesses are for young designers it's always been tough there isn't anything new about that but when they have to compete in a marketplace with so many big companies
these smaller designers often don't have the same resources and are probably the last ones in line when it comes to factory and fabrics so they that's when she they start this Vogue fashion fund 10 finalists be become part of what they call the quote Vogue family they build a
relationship with the magazine and over 10 years that's A1 designers who become loyal to voke and so she mentors these people that wind up being finalists and wind up winning and she gives them excellent advice and one thing that she gives them is one quality is the best
strategy she's obviously you know a living proof of that you could see that by examining her career but she talks about that the fact that relationships are going to last a lot longer than money relationships last longer than money and so she would there's all these people interviewed in a book that are
talking about the mentoring that they got from Anna she said resist any cheapening of the brand however popular and lucrative it might be in the short term and he says even the $200,000 that I got from winning the the award right the money kind of came and went but what
stayed was we got mentorship with the CEO of Burberry this was a relationship that lasted for years and years it lasted much much longer than the money last and so she then makes her network your network and so With Every Act she's actually acting in service of others and
then this winds up strength in her own position and there's a a bunch of examples like this but this is I think the first time I've mentioned this the fact that investors will then call Anna and say hey which labels should I invest in why because she's got a bird's eye view of all the young up upcoming
fashion designers some of which she's actually given money to right so they could survive some of which she's giving mentoring to some of which she's giving both of them to and there's a great line describing what's taking place it says she does so much for so many people that
when she asks something of you you do it really this is how everything works together she funds nent designers she then puts their clothes into Vogue this makes selling way easier she then gives them good advice because she has so much experience in this industry right and
then some of the some of the people ignore their advice her advice and go out of business so this is an example of this brand called Band of Outsiders they wind up winning the CF da Vogue fashion fund and the $200,000 price along with the money comes the validation of
magazines like Vogue the closer in Vogue right people like Anna her huge influence now his business model the guy that owns Band of Outsiders his business model was selling wholesale so he would sell clothes to stores like saaks Fifth Avenue Anna is the industry's chief
allocator of Buzz so if Anna says hey I love Band of Outsiders if you see ban of Outsiders in Vogue magazine it makes those sales flow a lot easier and so he just describes this and says hey you know if I have all these photo shoots if my clothes are in Vogue photo shoots they're appearing in Vogue magazine
everything just gets a lot easier he says it's a One-Stop shop for relevancy and then she also gives really smart advice she told him don't spend any time and money building out a Band of Outsiders store in New York just roll racks into the unfinished space and
start selling clothes it's not very different to the advice that she got from s new house back in 1991 where she's like stay close to the money follow the money this guy this young designer thinks okay I'm hot right now everybody wants my stuff what's the best thing I could do let me not sell
anything for eight months and design this beautiful retail establishment and Anna's like that is a terrible idea you're hot right now people will pull the product out of you get an unfinished space put your clothes on racks and start ringing the cash register he does not do that she told him not to spend
any time or money building out a band of Outsider store in New York just roll racks into the unfinished space and start selling cloth she was 100% right we lost 8 months of sales and momentum building out the perfect store that was one of the death nails of my brand in
other words not taking her advice was one of the death Nails one of the things that caused his brand to die and then the last thing I want to talk to you about is the effect that the devil wees PR movie had how the fact that it just made her bigger and even more powerful and so they're at a
private showing of it she's with her daughter her daughter's name is bee and it says at one point bee turned to her and said Mom they really got you the impact the movie had on her image was incalculable she finished off the year as one of Barbara Walter's Most
Fascinating People became a mainstream celebrity Merill Street played her in a movie for God's sake this was never her goal though she sees it as part of her job she's very conscious that this is a Persona that is exciting at the moment because she has that job and the minute
she doesn't have that that job she knows it's going to be different she has now become big Anna and with her star power now transcending fashion in media it would be terribly hard for K Nast ever to let her go and the reason I wanted to end there is because if you think about it she started with the goal to be in
charge of Vogue and now she is bigger than Vogue and that is where I'll leave it for the full story highly recommend buying the book I will leave a link down below if you buy the book using that link you'll be supporting the podcast at the same time because books are made out
of books if you want to read another biography of Anna I will also link down that down below uh it's actually in the bibliography in the author's note in this book it is uh the book by this guy named Jerry Oppenheimer it's called front row Anna winter What Lies Beneath
the Chic exterior of voges editor and chief um the author of this book Amy Odell said that that book was an enormously useful blueprint for this book so those both links to both books will be down below uh highly recommend if you want to watch a documentary on Anna and the process it's called the
September issue the devil weare's Prada is the movie and then also if you want to see her being interviewed in Vogue uh you can go to YouTube and watch 73 questions with Anna winter and 73 more questions with Anna winter that is 326 books down 1,000 ago and I'll talk to you again soon