you're watching tvpn live from the Temple of Technology The Fortress of Finance the dojo of the dollar today is Wednesday February 26 2025 and this show starts now we got a great show for you today we're covering Nvidia earnings that are dropping later today uh there's
a Rare Minerals deal that's going on in Ukraine we're going to dig into the companies that might make money from that deal stay away from the politics stay in the business world the technology world uh there's also an article in The Economist about DOD
procurement reform they're calling it The Battle for the Pentagon folks the battle for the Pentagon check it out very cool doed my address it's a live stream hopefully no one shows up in my house um and meta Zuck is is gonna spend $200 billion on a data center potentially we're going to
break it down for you and we have Ryan Peterson calling in from flexport in just about 15 minutes and so we're going to run through the Nvidia stuff first our first article of the day comes from the Wall Street Journal Nvidia earnings what time do results come out and what
to expect nvidia's chips are the computational workhorses of artificial intelligence and the company's quarterly reports have become gauges of health of the AI boom Nvidia is due to report fourth quarter results Wednesday after market close about 4:20 p.m. eastern
time so 1:20 our time and if you aren't stressed about this you're not heavily invested enough not just in Nvidia but the entirety of the market everything everything's everything's riding on I was talking to somebody who was thinking about going to Global econom changing from One Fund to another
uh and I was like you should probably wait until Nvidia earnings drop to make that decision yeah because if Nvidia rips uh might be a good time to lever up yeah and it's interesting because you have people uh earlier this week Steve Cohen was on records flipping Barrett
saying this is the first time I've been bearish there's all these cyclical sort of forces austerity right reducing spend in the government which sort of trickles down anti-immigration which you know reduces some economic activity that's happen tariffs are taxes and so you know
there is a case that tariffs make sense in the long term but in the short term there could be some Financial pain and so uh plenty of of uh investors are uh sounding alarm Bells we see this on the timeline and Warren Buffett is also sitting on a a historically large cash
pile of uh hundreds of billions of dollars in cash now um and you know he's looking at the fundamentals and saying I don't get it but we will find out more when Nvidia drops their earnings analysts expect to see strong sales growth in today's report even after
about two years of unprecedented expansion they point to Capital exp uh Capital expenditures by nvidia's largest customers Amazon meta alphabet Microsoft these are the hyperscalers they all plan record spending this year driven by AI but as we covered earlier in this week
uh some of the hyperscalers are getting a little bit of cold feet SAA saying hey maybe I want a lease maybe I want to you know not really sign that many leases and so I'm sure Dylan Patel and Ben Thompson will have uh great analyses out tomorrow or later this week breaking it
all down and we will bring that to you um much of the money that goes directly into nvidia's pocket which has helped Elevate its market cap above 3 trillion and make it one of the most valuable companies in the world um there's no shortage of challenges nvidia's
dominance in AI chips has made it a target for disruptive startups and other chip makers who want in on the action Nvidia chips have also been caught up in a geopolitical standoff between the US and China and and any concerning signal about the future could worry investors
much like China's deep seek did last month when it claimed it could create Advanced AI models with fewer chips I'm interested to see what Jensen has to say around earnings specifically in regards to deep seek because the easy answer is to say look jeans's paradox right what
every everybody that's heavily invested in AI that was their immediate reaction uh and I think it's a fair one uh but I think he'll need to go a little bit deeper than that on on earnings because everybody sort of heard that already if he just sort of doubles down it's like I
If I Was an analyst I'd be pressing him okay like what does that actually where does this actually go yeah where does this actually go yeah well if you're looking to make investments in uh Nvidia or any other asset why not go to public.com Investing For Those those who
take it seriously multi-asset investing industry-leading yields and they're trusted by millions go to public.com uh so let's talk about the US and Ukraine deal um that there has a there's been a deal that's been reached but details remain unresolved this also comes from
the Wall Street Journal uh was this Trump giving into to the you know he just was feeling the pressure from the true social ban in Ukraine saw this yeah that's right over the weekend or it was Friday yeah zinsky uh was feeling the pressure from Trump so he hit him where
it hurts true social ban the uh true social if you don't know they've got about a million dollars in Revenue globally uh and I'm gonna I'm GNA go out on a limb and say maybe five grand of that was generated in Ukraine so not exactly hitting Trump that hard but it
was a statement's letting letting him know yeah yeah don't mess with me uh but something happened I mean earlier they were talking about a $500 billion mineral deal uh but it's since become much more vague in terms of what this deal actually means uh the text of the
deal which has been viewed by The Wall Street Journal includes the creation of a fund co-owned by the two countries with the details of the financial Arrangement be to be determined later so they're basically just saying hey we know that America has spent a lot of money on on supporting Ukraine it's a
hundred billion dollar investment overall over the last few years 70 billion of that was in military hardware specifically and you know it typically there is some sort of repayment plan when these military activities happen like even in World War II you know it's
probably like the most noble war that America has fought right but Americans who footed the bill for those tanks and bombs and everything they got war bonds and then they got paid back and it was actually a good investment for people that were supporting America at the time
and there's no reason why I hope we never see war bonds on public but uh I mean now scenario now it's just treasuries right just issue a ton of treasuries and then we do whatever we want with the money it's one big pool of capital and it's not necessarily um
allocated yeah yeah yeah very specifically but but it can happen there can be a war bond drive if there's like hey we need you know a trillion dollars right now or or 100 billion or something and so uh how are they going to pay this back Trump wants to get the deal done
and make sure America comes out on top and so uh he's saying hey you got these assets in the ground these minerals and these minerals have been very hotly contested because China has so many of them and and there's a desire to shore up our access to Rare Earth elements and
other minerals as well so the deal is part of a broader of of broader arrangements with the United States zilinsky said this deal can be part of future security guarantees and so initially the the thought was give us all 500 billion and we will guarantee your safety we we will do anything to
protect you because 40% of the minerals that are targeted in this deal are in war torn areas that are contested regions that Russia's actively act uh active in and so America would have this massive Financial incentive to go and protect those areas um but it's since
kind of downgraded to a like a I don't know a more more vague deal at this point yeah just an interesting data point so mining actually only contributes 6% of Ukraine's towards Ukraine's GDP so it's not it's not uh you know it's significant uh but when
you think about Ukraine's um balance sheet versus cash flow essentially like they not generating a lot of money but they have a lot on their balance sheet yeah exactly the yeah yeah so in 2021 Ukraine's GDP was uh just under 60 billion so by Trump going out and saying
we want the value of the next $500 billion do of your minerals like that's pretty you know it's not an insignificant ask even though there was this hundred billion doll investment yeah zilinsky said he specifically didn't want to strike a deal where ukrainians would be paying for it for
multiple Generations like like the great grandchildren of the ukrainians now are still would still be paying it back so they want something a little bit we've seen throughout history if you saddle a nation with with extreme levels of debt it can create chaos create chaos
absolutely and so uh the this agreement can have a major success or quietly passed by zinsky said and I believe that a major success depends on our conversation with President Trump um he said that he would have several questions for Trump whenever they meet
including whether the United States would cut off Aid to Ukraine and if so whether Ukraine would be able to buy weapons from the United States He also would ask whether sanctions on Russia would be lifted he said uh we will draw conclusions after my di dialogue with
President Trump and so the mineral rights agreement has been a major sticking point in the relationship between keev and Washington which has deterior deteriorated rapidly this month at the Munich security conference zilinsky refused to sign a version of the deal presented to him by treasury
secretary Scott bassant uh at the time he said he couldn't sign an agreement that didn't include a security guarantee for Ukraine officials across Europe also expressed shock at some of the demands the US had made in their offer including the right to up to 500 billion in
revenue from mineral development and so uh they've been going back and forth Trump called Zenia a dictator uh the relationship is deteriorating but the end result might be that uh you know some sort of deal gets done here where they don't quote this but they say that
Trump accused Ukraine of starting the war yeah which seems yeah anything to get a deal done here y uh today zilinsky said today it's important not to lose the us as one of the guarantors whether it's the main guarantor or one of the guarantors of security guarantees for
Ukraine and we are working on it and so I wanted to dig in so I had I I pulled up some data on the companies that might be involved in actually going and distracting these uh these and you can see a sheet here uh going extracting these these minerals so uh MP materials alberie and uranium energy Corp could
benefit from the deal given their focus on rare Earth's lium uh lithium and uranium respectively uh the deal was agreed to involves Ukraine uh sharing revenue from critical minerals but these aren't developed yet and so you need companies that come in and do survey
surveys to actually understand what's in the ground uh even caterpillar was cited as a potential beneficiary here because they make a lot of mining equipment a lot of you know construction equipment that can yeah how much what is the total value of the equipment needed to mine
$500 billion worth of Rare Minerals it's a lot this is a multi double digit percentage of the end value yeah yeah it's a I mean it's a uh that's what I don't understand so the United States is not going out and saying we're going to come mine your Rare Earth minerals it's
that we want a ro like a massive royalty on the value of whatever is mined within the country yes and so at some point there needs to be these private companies need the ability to capture margin as well if they're going to go do the work and so I'd be interesting to
see a diagram specifically around how that where the sort of like actual margin is being allocated to because the US can't just take the actual retail you know market value of you know a piece of titanium right it has to take otherwise the economic what's the incentive for
the mining company to actually pull that out of the ground yeah totally it it's it's that there's 500 billion allegedly in the ground on the balance sheet of Ukraine that's going to get turned into cash at some point over the next few decades a number of companies could come
in and buy those rights and they could pay for them upfront and then they reap the benefit but at some point the money from that deal is going to go into this formerly it would just go into Ukraine's treasury because they own the materials the the the minerals but under this
agreement it will go into a like a collective fund yeah it's interesting too because presumably much of these deposits are on private land Y and so if you're private citizen who owns the land and then the United this foreign government is making a claim to it and
they're making that claim because you know we provided Capital to fund the war y you're like well I you know I didn't ask you to do that my my mineral deposit isn't even anywhere near the front lines know there's a bunch of crazy Dynamics here and uh I think these are
essentially on like Federal Stargate is on the line yeah yeah yeah it's a big deal uh and so uh digging into some of these companies MP materials corporation headquartered in Las Vegas they're the largest United States producer of raree elements operating the mountain pass
mine in California given the deal stipulation that us companies must hold 50% ownership of Ukraine's uh Rare Earth deposit MP materials as a prime candidate to expand its operations now this is all like super hypothetical this is just uh you know you could bring in
any company to do this deal but uh the question is like is Ukraine even like they're not currently mining these are they set up to or will they partner with an American company they they could partner with a Chinese company for all for all we know there's actually a
Chinese company that's um that's that like the largest Rare Earth Mining Company in the world is a Chinese company because that's where a lot of these rare Earths come from yeah and you can imagine China is doing many of these same deals with the belt and Road initiative where they say cool we're
going to give you you know this funding for infrastructure if you can't you know actually pay for it over time we're going to claim the infrastructure and also you know secured by underlying mineral I don't know if you have the market caps there but I was kind of
shocked by how small some of these companies are yeah I just think it's it's many of them are are sort of low margin businesses right so they're you know getting a fairly low multiple on um yeah I think most of these companies are in the single digit billions if they're
there's a couple here that are in just the hundreds of millions there's not a huge uh like you know moat around these businesses it's just a lot of hard work digging digging in the mines basically yep uh um and there's been some a lot of talk recently of uh Duren mining uh
which is out of El Segundo and I have just appreciated pretty much every graphic that they've put out uh it makes me yearn for the mindes I've never set foot in one uh but but their visuals are fantastic it's just duran.com d r i n.com unfortunately I'm not an investor but I
am uh very excited to see what they do and and maybe will look to invest in the future yeah so we should have Ryan Peterson joining us in just a few minutes we're figuring out our second live call in of all time we're trying to do it a little bit more professional
this time with a real Zoom you should be able to see his appreci call in senra was G Monday yeah uh and if we can just wire this the phone in we can just make some phone calls while we're on stream that would be fantastic um but I'm sure we'll follow more as that deal rolls out
I'm super interested I mean we've seen Ukraine as an opportunity for hard tech companies uh neros is probably one that took the most Advantage but um anderol certainly had a Ukraine narrative for a while in the sense that Palmer lucky was saying hey we've been talking about the
return of great power competition we've been talking about the importance of drones and Ander was very countercultural very contrarian and now it's super consensus because everyone all through 2020 through 2024 was basically like we need to defend Ukraine
I'm not exactly sure when the I think the Ukrainian war broke up in 2021 2022 a couple years ago but at that point everyone uh you know not just right wi obviously left wing was was very very in support of of Defending Ukraine and uh that led to a lot of energy
24th of February in 2022 so almost exactly years ago three years ago yeah and so uh and then neros has a similar thing I think they just uh struck a deal to send a few thousand drones over there and they was kind of scaled manufactur was wild I don't think I I'm sure even
their investors didn't feel like it was feasible to get neros product onto the front lines yeah uh of this war and uh Bravo to them for for making it happen cool well well let's uh let's move on to something that is a great place to express your rare mineral collection on your
watch on bezel uh go to get uh bezel to shop for over 22,500 luxury watches fully authenticated inhouse by bezel team of experts um and they have a great post here uh POV you say you're full but then they roll out the six foot Rolex cake have you seen this photo insane and
they did a little giveaway you got to follow these guys on X because uh they said uh and Connor can you let Ryan in he is in the waiting room let's see first ever video guest so he's in the waiting room here we go Ryan how you doing up got man I'm traveling right wear a tuxedo to join
you guys you're looking good you look good too fantastic I like the zip up it looks comfy where are you right now I'm in Dallas Texas nice uh can you give me the breakdown on the announcement kind of the Cadence what this means for the company just break it down yeah so we we
launched uh earlier this week we launched about 20 AI products basically stuff that we built over the last six months we moved to this model where we every six months just do a big drop try to kind of drop a little bomb uh it comes from a principle in physics where
the maximum energy transfer happens when you take something really really hot you put it in a place that's really really cold and we feel like Freight industry in general is like that so you want to just gather a whole bunch of hotness and drop it all at once was there any push
back when you kind of pitched this to the team or was everyone kind of like oh yeah we already know the Brian chesky uh kind of like talk that you were referencing and and we we're in we're bought in people liked it a lot no no push back because I think a lot of our
Tech teams feel a little frustrated that they don't get enough support from marketing or they build this thing and people don't pay attention and never gets any buzz and it's all feels a little incremental when you look at it a little bit by bit um the pushback that I
was expecting to get would have happened over the last month because there's uh there's nothing like a deadline to get people to work hard I remember um yeah like some good business advice actually is the way to get people to work on nights and weekends is not to
ask them to work nights and weekends it's just give them a deadline that can only be met if they work on nights and weekends so I think some of the stuff we shipped over the weekend like right before the launch yeah yeah I was going to say it's the same thing with sales like it's hard
to know if a sales rep is actually good unless they're you know competing on a team uh with other people you know their other peers right uh one of the things I thought was interesting I I think that early stage companies can struggle sometimes when they end up dropping like
three major announcements on one day because uh if you're just like starting to like build that brand and audience I think it can be um you can end up wasting a handful of announcements by uh you know dropping them all at once versus spreading them out but I think at the scale uh that
Flex ported at it makes a ton of sense to you know do this sort of keynote sort of approach yeah it could be that it could be also earlier stage companies don't know what's going to work and need to iterate more and be more like evolutionary and at our scale we sort of
know what the thing needs to be and Sh business itself works as is so customers ask for these and you're B just paying down like a backlog of like the most common requests right yeah and like we're not really holding much back like a few of these things kind of soft
launch or already in production and live over the last couple months but like we never did any Fanfare or marketing or packaging of it up uh but definitely a bunch of stuff was like barely shipped on time kind of team grounded out over the last few weekends and working you
know burning the midnight that's great though it's got to feel got to feel like very inspiring to the team and very like just like everyone's on the same page AG now everyone's on the same Cadence everyone has the same like pop and champagne at the same time because like
we all hit the same goal basically yeah I recommend it to companies I think yeah it's an interesting caveat maybe some early stage companies want to like build more of a success compounding motion of little wins and constant launches and stuff uh there's a lot of there's aot
there's probably something to that as well but we saw such good results from packaging it it's definitely a new rhythm going forward how how are you pitching flexport now kind of at the highest level in terms of like the long-term vision and how how how how did
these new uh releases kind of like fit into that narrative or like the the high level story you're telling about flexport it it's always been a really challenging thing because we can do a lot of things for a lot of different use cases for different audiences at the at
at its core what we're trying to do is run this full end to end from Factory floor all the way to customer doors and retail stores I like that it Rhymes uh being able to everything on that full end to end transaction and then including placing orders back to those
factories to replenish we want to make that as as simple and reliable as a light switch like that your Logistics just kind of works you take it for granted you go back to focusing on your brand or focusing on your product which is what you should spend all your time on as a product company and like the
logistics piece is just automatic it's pretty automated it's reliable it's cheap yeah uh and lots of options to get the products where they need to go and we're also um Flex for capitals become a really instrumental part of our business where we do inventory financing for
people so you're like also shouldn't have to worry about that compliance Capital insurance for the products y so but yeah it's a it's a very big ambitious Vision because the world's big we gota be able we ship product to and from 147 countries last year yeah uh
that's a lot of different surface area you mentioned um trying to get to a place where you know like an e-commerce business can basically with one click get on flexport and then be fulfilling through you know Nordstrom's France e-commerce system can you break down a
little bit more of like what that will look like and what what are what are the barriers like why is that difficult yeah and that is a big part of the vision too is like we Logistics right now is your cost center yeah we want to make it a growth engine we want to be like hey you
know you've got this awesome Logistics platform you can sell in more markets whether that's geographies yep or more channels different retailers marketplaces um and yeah it's it's hard because these retailers all have their own very specific requirements for how
you label the goods like Nordstrom wants it appear as a Nordstrom package even even if it's shipped by flexport or the brand so yeah you've got to get that custom they want it to run on a Nordstrom shipping label yep makes sense not a flexport shipping label they want
some cases they want special hang tags that say nordstrom.com or whatever and it slips stuff so youve got to do for each retailer on board them in that way and then when that's on the digital side where what we call Drop Shipping where you're selling on nordstrom.com if
you're selling to Nordstrom or really any of the big box retailers they also have huge requirements for how you deliver pallets to them like the label has to be a certain number of inches above the ground and has to arrive at this time and if you miss those things
they they have a call it chargeback they they they they like thousands of dollars for and the other challenge is compliance across all these different product categories right which is a whole other beast in terms of uh I I understand uh I've invested in a number
of consumer Brands and and just dealing with that level of complexity and especially a lot of 3pls are not super sophisticated and there's real you know finds associated with sort of not doing these things correctly one question I had is around you know entering sort of
fulfillment uh and being a player there from every my sense is that nobody loves their their 3pl or their filment provider and so that's a huge challenge I'm sure you've been super intentional coming into that how are you sort of focused on um you know making uh is it
is it possible to make a fulfillment product that Brands like truly truly love right because everything could be going great for years and you have a small issue and it's so critical to the business that it can it can be very challenging what's been your approach there definitely our goal is to become
you know the most loved vendor you have in all your Logistics act we've done that in the freight forwarding TI although we've had our ups and downs lately our NPS score has been through the roof so 72 NPS last and last time we measured it last month so we definitely
know what to do what flexport did differently than the Fulfillment business we required from shop by Logistics we were very Enterprise focused our Tech teams meet with customers constantly and solve Tech problems and then we are also more than a tech company we're a service provider
and so if the tech can't do it like we're still going to get it done and I think that's something that we've had to kind of learn teach new tricks to this business that we acquired now I'm really proud of them for the last nine months at least they've just been like our Tech
teams have been meeting with the customers non-stop closing gaps like taking feedback solving the problems we definitely still have work to go but the the the cycle time of like taking their feedback implementing it is really good like these customers feel like they have
a custom Dev shop even though we don't build custom software for people uh it's been a mess lately so um I don't know how close you guys have follow but a huge amount of um e-commerce is fulfilled from Mexico dutyfree into the us if it's under $800 there's no taxes
that was 30% of all the big Shopify Merchants were doing that uh and it went away the Mexican Government shut that program down on December 19th and then like totally no one saw that coming everyone thought Trump was gonna shut it down no one thought Mexico was gonna
shut it down didn't make any sense they kind of brought it back but then they like haven't given the Importer licenses to these companies so so it's not really brought back so flexport fulfillment we doubled our Revenue in the first what is today February late February so the
first two months of this year we've already doubled the revenue of that big business unit that we acquired from Shopify wow but has not been without hangup like we our team my whole leadership team I was there last weekend working whole leadership team is
basically living at our warehouse in San Bernardino right now because we're taking all this inventory out of fulfillment centers in Tiana and trying to inbound it and none of it's proper a lot of it's not properly labeled imagine right you're like taking it all out of this Mexican fulfillment
center throwing it in boxes and shipping it to us and like the people labeling these boxes didn't care that much about the comp you know labeling and compliance well so many there's so many landmine if this is like one of the most uh uh crisis prone borders in the entire
world right between Mexico and the United States uh you got to be so careful around so many different things to make sure uh that you know everything that you're doing is is you know not not and there's the whole you know Dynamics with the cartels down there that try to
get involved in some of these more traditional businesses so um so is so that Mexico thing that you just mentioned that's separate from the Teemu D Minimus change that's going yeah Mexico color on that can you own thing and and like it's possible that it's
related it's possible that Trump they were trying to do Trump a favor or something and Clos this down not not really clear to me why they would do this because they say on the surface it's to protect Mexican textile workers jobs M and kind of create a barrier to
entry so that like you would Source in Mexico instead of in Vietnam or something but uh been a best CH separately CH Trump actually first Biden's CBP did this Customs um and Border Protection back in September I want to say announced they previewed hey this 321 de Minimus program for goods
made in China is going to go away but it was very vague it was sort of when that would be implemented or how Trump on in his first week made the executive order to shut the program down and then in his second week he brought it back yep but no one thinks it's back for good like
we're sort of um in this limbo stage right now but it's making it really hard for companies to plan and now that is just targeting goods made in China yeah but I don't know everyone's like oh I'm fine I produced my goods in Vietnam I just don't know that the Trump
Administration is going to see the world that way I think that you I I would predict and I don't have any evidence for this but my intuition tells me I would predict some tariffs on other countries besides just Vietnam that a lot of these people think they have a
safe haven for their products but maybe we'll wake up to a roote Awakening what is the uh what is the global footprint of flexport look like now I mean it's a big company you said 146 147 countries or something do you have offices people warehouses in all these places like no
not in all of them we have offices in 15 countries and then adding five more five more in the next uh 12 month as fast as we can we're we're uh we're launching so it's a big um so that's why you're traveling all the time yeah I went to 19 countries last year and and some of them twice so I
don't think I left the United States last year TR the world's big place Sean you gotta get out there it's not that bad I enjoy it yeah uh talking about the news uh this morning there was some news around the the port deal uh and specifically around automation like what
can you speak to on that front what should uh you know there was a lot of push back people being you know uh obviously a wage increase uh and then uh on top of that uh Banning uh some of these companies from uh rolling out automation that would that would
threaten uh jobs uh what is what's going on there what's your take on on the most recent news pretty ridiculous to ban Automation and a port uh just putting America at a competitive disadvantage the reality is you're not at this table you have carrier the the the port operators and the ocean
carriers on one side of the table these are the employers and then you have the Union on the other side and they're negotiating neither of them cares that much about automation because if if there's no automation it's sort of like a non-proliferation treaty hey cool we
don't have to spend money on automation as long as our competitors don't either like it's we're all Level Playing Field here the people who ler you and all of us who buy who use the ports who ship stuff uh consumers will have to pay more for everything and I don't know by the
same logic like we would we should all be farming with with sticks instead of you know just dig a hole with a stick and put a seed in the ground so I think it's very stupid I'm sure the union will want to come after me for that they're doing the right thing for themselves by
the way they should represent their interest that's their job as a union so I don't criticize what they're doing but my stance is very Pro Robotics and automation I'm obviously we're technology company so yeah yeah broadly I mean there's been a lot of uh heat
around the humanoids robotics space and just robotics broadly where where do you see flexport itself leveraging uh some of this Tech and uh I'd love uh I'd love to get your take on just the humanoid form factor generally is that something that you see being integrated you know
across um you know all the different physical touch points of the flexport business or do you think there's a better you know form factor you know it's not obvious to me that humanoids are going to be the right form factor for like 3pl and filment for example um
though definitely not obvious the whole thing is it's I'm very much Wai and see it's the humanoids are making enough progress that it's really causing me to second guess how much I want to spend on catbacks in a big automated system right now in a fulfillment center because you
know three years from now I want to have this the life cycle on that investment probably like 10 15 years at least right not hopefully it can pay back faster than that it would have to before we invested but like it's gonna it's got to last that long I'm not going to replace
it and I could just totally imagine I have this like giant expensive system that three years from now is just obsolete because progress in humanoids or other types of Robotics so it's kind of interesting one of these Cycles where you're like if it's improving that fast
then you definitely can't in it yeah it's crazy the future one is gonna be way better yeah well it'ss are good in that sense because they're modular you can buy one at a time instead of like well the concern we've talked about this before the concern with humanoids
is just if if humanoids depreciate at the rate that the model 3 does are they viable Investments right you're just like sinking dollars into these things and then the next year it's like well you know I could have invested 50 Grand into training this human who's going to
be like better at their job and all this stuff and I invested in this robot now it's like just not even uh you know effective hard for them to clear is so high too I mean workers are very like on an IQ basis like they're pretty smart they got amazing dexterity in their
fingers they run around they've got agency they're not that expensive like there's a lot that bar is going to be really high for them to clear yep for sure so we're I'm we're still like pretty manual in our fulfillment now we're digital in the sense that like we scan everything in and out and like a
lot of you can't screw this up technology but the actual pick pack and parcel you know putting this putting in the box is pretty manual and I I the bar is so high to to to clear so we're kind of happy with that uh well it's 11: we'll let you get out of here unless you
want to lecture us on uh JFK uh otherwise hope you have a great day did you see that I did a TV interview yesterday and I was on the air to talk about ports and they were like in the back room waiting in the in the green room or whatever and they're like our
next story is JFK assassination but first we got to talk about ports and the end of my interview like can I just stay let's talk to AFK yeah well uh where can the listeners uh uh what's a good starting point to get into the JFK lore okay great well I'm here in Dallas okay uh which obviously
is D Plaza is where he got shot and if you are ever in Dallas you gotta go down to D Plaza right at the scene of the crime there's this guy this fat guy in sweatpants he sits right there all day every day and he will tell you everything you give him 20 bucks he
sells like this little magazine 20 bu he'll give you a tour going behind the bushes and be like oh the mafia was right here on this bridge and like he will give you the whole layout of how it all went down so I highly recommend Dallas uh so you just got to go to the
source you're not even recommending a movie or a book it's just go to Dallas and get the tour I like it correct this guy will tell you everything that's great okay that's amazing uh have a great rest of your day save travels enjoy Dallas and uh let us know if C
Crack the Case on the the JFK talk to you soon bye see you uh well let's move on that was great that was great always candid we do need to do a a a JFK Deep dive that's how we really blow this show up go into the conspiracy realm no politics just straight up tinf foil hat
hat is right here we need permanent tinf foil hat constantly uh well let's stay with the politics stuff The Economist has an article on will Donald Trump and Elon Musk wreck or reform the Pentagon I don't know if you want to read from this Jordy you got a copy I got a copy for
you I got a hard copy the the battle for the Pentagon they got some nice do your address I got it here too uh I'll kick it off in the Pentagon they must surely be on high alert on February 9th president Donald Trump declared that it would soon become the target for Elon
musk's Doge accusing it of hundreds of billions of Fraud and Abuse Mr Trump will unleash his insurgents fresh from the feeding foreign aid into the wood chipper um their work could not be more important or more risky and yeah I mean we've heard this for a while like oh the
Pentagon wasn't able to pass an audit decade in a row of being unable to I don't even know if it's the it's really the issue is the audit but it seems like they just don't use ramp they don't have they don't have a good grasp on you remember yeah last week I was you
were like how do we spend how do we spend so much money this month and I was like look and ramp and you like were able in like literally 10 seconds to see exactly where everything was spent um but yeah they couldn't even hit that bar yeah uh which is uh we will definitely
be passing our audits here at at this podcast yeah uh you don't become the most profitable podcast in the world without passing an audit yeah uh but I mean to to kind of put on the steel hat and take off the tinfoil hat the Steelman hat uh uh you know I I am okay
with the idea of a uh of a black budget I'm okay with paying my taxes and the Pentagon does stuff that I you don't need to be all on chain no I don't need it to be all on chain because I don't want the adversaries to know and I don't want the average citizen who does pay
their taxes to just be able to say hey it's my right as an American to know exactly where the CIA is spending money and then I can just immediately text that to someone in Russia or China like I'm fine with not knowing but I don't want there to be just massive money
stolen like that doesn't make sense I want it to be you know some some sort of accountability in checks and balance internally and so uh this is uh this is a big debate here uh so that is because America's Armed Forces face a real problem not since the Soviet Union
launched Sputnik and built huge tank formations at the height of the Cold War have Americans have America's military vulnerabilities been so glaring in in The Killing Fields of Ukraine America is being out innovated by drone designers in the seas and skies off China it is
losing its ability to deter a blockade or an invasion of Taiwan and one thing interesting from this morning I saw uh Chris from amadon heavy Industries they're they're building uh Maritime defense uh products and he shared something earlier about how China was
caught I guess in the last 24 48 hours cutting undersea cables off the west of Taiwan so they had come sort of around the other side and so there's that the other thing that's that's relevant to the defense side which is a whole front that people don't even really talk about
but a Texas Rancher was killed by an an uh an improvised explosive device yesterday morning I saw that um which is just insane and many people are saying that should be considered an act of you know basically yeah that's a terrorist activity if if on American soil an
American citizen was killed by a cartel which you could easily you know Trump has already paved the way for basically labeling them as as ter I think he did label them as terrorists interesting um um and so the the the problems are clearest in the struggle to turn technology into military Advantage the
drones over Ukraine are upgraded every few weeks a pace that is beyond the pentagon's budgeting process which takes years um and this is what we're seeing with neros and anderol uh equipment going out it gets revised much faster than the Pentagon can even update a
requirements document uh and so there's been a big push for uh updating the uh the way procurement happens we talked about this on on a previous show uh I have a good post here from elano over at paler uh there's an article in Breaking defense Pentagon leaders are crafting a
plan to shake up how they buy and field technology with defense secretary Pete hegseth starting things off by potentially directing that the department adopt s the software acquisition pathway as the preferred method for software development in a draft memo obtained by breaking defense
heg Seth calls on the department to adopt the software acquisition pathway a practice created in 2020 to accelerate software development by implementing best practices from the private sector at its core S swp is a streamlined method for procuring software programs
but spoke to DOD requirements DOD requirements uh although the s swp organizations can deploy capabilities into platforms within 6 months or less DOD has previously stated that the goal is to speed this process up into hours or just days which makes a ton of sense
so that uh companies like paler and other software providers to the dod can push updates much faster than having all this back and forth and so there's a lot uh going on there but of course A lot of people are are worried that the Doge stuff will just result in smaller
budgets and then you know defense tech companies will be on their back foot because they're expecting an expansion and they can't get that if if things are are pulling back but at the same time there's uh you know the actual budget will be passed not by the executive
branch but by Congress and um it all looks like there's a continuing resolution and then maybe even an increase in uh in defense spending and so uh we can read more of this I don't know if there's anything else you want to say not on that specifically I'm sure there's other stuff in here but um but
yeah I mean we we joked about this yesterday too every it's sort of um what's interesting right now is every Department feels like they are knows they're under threat because to them you know if you're running a department or or you know even if you're just an employee generally
everybody that's worked at a startup that has a massive it's way more fun to have massive budgets that are sort of like you don't really have to you know it's you know and this is the issue when when startups raise too much money they just start you know spending them uh or
or or you know and so regardless bloat bloat is more fun than posterity and being you know and running you know highly efficiently and and questioning every spending decision and cutting back and saying oh we can't do you know this idea is good but we're not going to do
it because we have you know somewhere better to spend that money or it's just not good enough it doesn't meet the bar and so no you know you know historically these departments have just sort of said every year we need more and more money we give them more and more money they're
not being evaluated you know purely on um they're certainly not being evaluated on efficiency right you know you had that tinfoil hat conspiracy theory about um NASA NASA saying that they might be talking about the the the asteroid that's going to destroy Earth to to keep
it was just too conveniently timed this thing's hitting in 2030 apparently or might hit in 2030 and your math is so bad that every other day the odds go up by 1% I don't know no the odds don't go up 1% they were like you know doubling every two days yeah yeah uh who who
knows who knows uh but but I heard a similar conspiracy theory about the hyp iic missile stuff it was always hard to tell uh when there would be a Chinese demonstration like these undersea cables like on one hand yes it might be China's more dangerous than ever so we need to
increase military budgets or it could just be I want an increased military budget so I have an incentive to make China look more dangerous than ever and so that it's always really hard to to to figure out what what is driving the narrative uh and you know in in the
China case I am a little worried in the NASA case I don't know how much I buy that conspiracy but it is interesting uh and I'm glad the but but it is it is it's a it's an important question to ask you know uh this is an interesting line from here um uh behind this is the nightmare of
budgets two-year delays are aggravated by Congressional squabbling Pork barreling politicians waste money by vetoing the end of programs uh they guard their control over spending so jealously that without Congressional permission the Pentagon cannot as a rule
shift more than $15 million from one line to another so if it's over $15 million it has to go to Congress and Congress has to say okay yeah we'll take not even not even taxing more spending more it's just reallocating and they and they put it in context here it says 15
million is too little to buy even four Patriot missiles when the Pentagon propo proposed diverting just 0.5% of the defense budget to buy thousands of drones under its replicator initiative so in August winning approval took almost 40 Congressional meetings soow so
the idea a that Mitch McConnell should have a say in in this sort of individual line items of Y uh the pentagon's budget is insane especially when you consider that he goes you know anytime he does an interview he he you know sort of uh uh there's like a bug and you know poor guy
but there's a bug in the system that just causes him to just like you know you got to restart the computer basically he did just announce his retirement Y in 2026 but or or he not going to run again in 2026 uh but unfortunately that means for for the
foreseeable future he will still have a say in uh you know things that that you know generally um this level of micromanagement yeah uh should be done almost like looking back to say like we gave you this budget did you spend it efficiently if not you know we there
needs you know and then we're enforcing changes versus the micromanagement at the and I'm sure I I mean I I need to look this up but it it feels like this $15 million number is one of those uninflated adjusted numbers where when they passed that rule they were like sound they were like well yeah we don't
want the Pentagon to just randomly move $15 million and be able to create a new Manhattan Project like you know oh $15 million that's all of our aircraft carries and now $15 million is like four missiles and so the Pentagon can't shift it around uh Pentagon angst is as old as
the military industrial complex past secretaries of defense including Bob Gates and the late Ash Carter were philosopher Kings next to their new and manifestly unqualified successor Pete hegseth who uh was a Fox News host but has military experience I don't buy the
unqualified narrative as much as some people um but but he definitely has a different uh background from from previous secretaries of yeah it's more it's more so do we need a leader who's highly experienced uh as a Warf fighter and highly pragmatic and has deep
relationships within the active you know actively enlisted uh military or do we want the philosopher king who's going to sort of sit and uh you know tell everybody else how how things should be done without the sort of boots on the ground yeah it's almost like we need
both you know we we need the guy like Pete heg X needs both right we need our we need our operators and we need our philosopher Kings Absol sometimes they end up intersecting yeah a lot of times the philosopher king usually would write you know the book that then goes viral
and becomes the the tone that everyone's marching to the same drum of but then you see what Pete HTH is doing with some of those photos where he's like working out with the guys and like really like leading from the front and I think that that could be good uh there was a great
oped in the journal yesterday about uh Army Recruiting falling off a cliff and now starting to climb back up and what they can do about this and uh they actually mentioned the uh JFK uh proposed a 50 mile March like nationally to like encourage men to like go and out
and like potentially join the Army and so he was like proposing this it was was very cool uh anyway uh there are two reasons why this moment may be different one is the time is ripe uh not only is the threat to American Security becoming clear but a new generation of military
technology firms including andal paler Shield AI uh is banging on the Pentagon doors indeed paler is now worth more than any of the five Prime contractors more controversially Mr musk is eager to crack heads together on enthusiasm which stems partly from the second reason to
hope his experience elsewhere in the 2010s to escape the ignominy of paying of paying for rides to the International Space Station on Russian spacecraft NASA put fix price contracts to provide such Services out to Tender Boeing offered something called Starliner Mr musk's
SpaceX offered crew Dragon at a much lower cost crew dragon has been a huge success Starliner has yet to fly a successful Mission and has left Boeing having to absorb billions of dollars of budget overruns as they should yeah and that's the nature of the free market
like that is a good outcome I think um from the 60s to 2010 the cost of getting a kilogram to orbit hovered around $112,000 SpaceX Rockets have cut that in uh by a factor of 10 already it's a, or 1,200 uh per kilogram and promise much more uh very very fascinating uh Mr
musk's task is big and complex uh American weapons need more AI autonomy and lower cost where possible they should be made from cheap off the-shelf parts that ride on advances in consumer Tech this is a lot of what andal is doing uh the Pentagon should foster
competition and risk-taking knowing that some schemes will fail yeah it's interesting you know part of the reasons why these decisions uh end up being so contentious is that the individual Senators have uh you know their constituents back home that are oftentimes dependent on jobs from
specific programs right so it ends up getting into this position where we're not we want to keep this program going because 300 people in this small town that voted for me uh rely on this program for their livelihood yep and so it's a very very complicated issue um
and uh yeah I'm I'm I'm interested to see I would love to hear uh as this sort of Pentagon Doge uh you know Collision happens it would be really fascinating to hear what our analysts in China and Russia and any of our adversaries saying uh because they might be you know they
might be actually concerned about it because hey we have the biggest military budget in the world and if we keep the budget the same but spend it three times better it'll actually be very bad for adver adversaries but if we just cut you know and hack across the board they
might be you know rubbing their hands together saying like this is this is great right it makes it makes us able to be more competitive uh but any uh this is is one of those things uh every single American should want uh if your tax dollars are being spent anywhere you
should want them to be spent right and I don't think that that's a political issue at all that's just uh called being um you know pragmatic yeah so if you're at the Pentagon and you're working if you're burning the midnight oil trying to uh figure out where the budget is
going figuring out how to optimize our military spend there's no better mattress to sleep on than an eight sleep boom nights that fuel your best days turn any bed into the ultimate sleeping experience go to eight sleep to purchase one big fan of eight sleep go to tvpn
you can can beat you can uh compete with John and I sleep scores we should get just get like a group chat going and we can uh I did not do well last night I think I got like an 80 something it was rough why was it rough I don't know couldn't I think I went to bed to I was
the one 83 only 6 hours and 41 minutes not good you're you're I'm falling I'm falling off I had a 96 and the thing that just keeps dinging me is I'm not getting quite I'm barely getting more than seven but I'm in the range yeah um but work on I've reflected on it I think
that choice of shirt and suit phenomenal I think it's great uh risky one today uh I wasn't sure if this sort of off-white shirt could go with the suit but it's working I think I think it looks great you know who needs to put on a suit one of these days who's that Mark Zuckerberg
that is true he's looked good he put on a suit for it's a shame when a man only puts on a suit when they're in trouble exactly you don't want to be the guy that only is wearing a suit when when people you know are trying to come down on you because if you're wearing a suit
all the time when you are you know in the yeah uh sorry swear jar sorry swear jar um uh but you know if Zuckerberg wear a suit every single day and then he goes in front of Senate and he's wearing a suit he doesn't look guilty I think he needs to wear it every
day I I just think we know he can pull off the cool t-shirt with the the graphic te we know he can look good walking into UFC but I want to see more versatility more range in the outfit the New York Times actually has an article in 2018 called Mr Zuckerberg's I'm sorry
suit oh yeah and another one from The Hollywood Reporter yes Mark Zuckerberg wore a suit at the Senate hearing so he's got the guy the guy who had the the sort of uh you know daily uniform what was it like the the gray shirt it was the gray sweatshirt the hoodie yeah and
and there was this famous interview with Caris swisser where Caris Swisher's really putting the screws to him here's another here's another one these these headlines are amazing uh Washington Post 2018 Mark Zuckerberg is one of the suits now he'd better learn to get comfortable
in one and so they're they're all just dunking on him from wearing his suit but if he'd been wearing it you know even once a week prior to that nobody would have been able to say I'm sure I mean his suits looked great but I'm but he could take it a step further now now
that he's so into fashion he could really find something that's a standout suit and even blend in some of the the the hype Beast gra he could take some creative risks with the suits that he chooses and how he puts them together and just throw it in every once a while
I'm not saying I'm not saying get rid of the T-shirt entirely I'm just saying every once in a while show up in a suit show up in a button- down let's see a polo let's see you be able to style you know it you know any former Facebook employee chamath was recently on his
podcast talking about his uh Laur addiction and he looked fantastic ftic I thought uh you know he was getting MD for it but um it uh you know I think he he's got good taste and uh yeah it's hard to argue with that it is it is well the reason we're talking about Zuck is
because uh meta has is discussing an AI data center project that could cost $200 billion and uh for reference they are spending something between 60 and 80 billion on capex per year not all of that is for artificial intelligence a lot of that for serving reels which is
obviously AI driven as well but it's not for specifically for llm training um but he's all in on AI and is now thinking I'm sure this 200 billion is over a series of years he's not just ramping up the capex by a factor of three or four uh overnight but it is an exciting story
and it's interesting given that Nvidia earnings are happening later today uh we'll see if this is something that uh moves the needle for NVIDIA because if they really do want to spend $200 billion that's going to be a lot of GP use so I'll kick it off and then I want
to get your take metap platforms is in talks to build a new data center campus for its artificial intelligence Endeavors that would dwarf anything the company has done to date and would be among the biggest of its kind it would cost more than $200 billion the proposed
campus which hasn't been previously reported this is in the information uh would be several times larger than a new data AI data center in Louisiana that Mark Zuckerberg discussed last month which he implied would be about four miles long that data center would cost
10 billion and so now we're going up 20x uh the discussions suggest meta is preparing for a multi-year surge in demand for generative AI among its billions of users through an AI chatbot available in all of its apps it also shows the lengths that to which Zuckerberg may go to keep up with its
rival open AI which has embarked on a joint venture with SoftBank to spend 500 billion over four years on new data centers for its AI like Microsoft Google and Amazon meta has outlined plans to massively increase cap largely for AI development meta said it will LIF its
capex between um to between 60 and 65 billion that's the actual number up nearly 70% on last year so there there are he's no uh he's never been afraid to roll a dice on capex yes and he's founder mode he can just well just generally making big bets obviously
around uh uh you know he he he re you know it's funny at the time meta yeah the Rebrand seemed so silly yep to me and in the fullness of time Facebook is like 50% of the metaverse that we experience right when you look at uh everything from Instagram Facebook WhatsApp it's actually a
perfect name I I I agree I agree I I think it's aged very very well and I think uh like it did get away from the Blue app like people use Instagram they use WhatsApp like everyone uses a meta product even if they don't use Facebook specifically and I think that uh Zuck
realized that and and he actually needed so so what what we're seeing now is that every single one of zuck's apps will eventually like become somewhat irrelevant with the youth and so he needed a sort of he needed this sort of parent level brand to say like you're
investing in meta and my leadership and this sort of collection of of digital uh and you know now physical products uh some of them will you know they're going to have their time uh but but many people have reported you know we talked about this probably a month ago at this
point a lot of people feeling like I don't use Instagram as much anymore I don't post there I'm you know my my attention is being spread elsewhere and so he needs to I think it was really smart to not be the blue the blue company you know the Facebook company
totally um and uh yeah yeah and there's something about capex spending like this that's somehow less risky than spending on a specific app or specific platform um like when he they when they went to build out the the last data center Bill the B the last Big Data Center plan they
they got kind of caught flat-footed with reals because Tik Tok came out and the main you know Tik Tok was oh it's vertical video that Scrolls but the real thing that made Tik Tok take off was that it is able to with AI essentially personalize a feed very very quickly
aesque yeah I'm sure but but even even then like it's clearly like a like a very robust algorithm in terms of understanding what is this content and how is it linked to other content in the feed and this person spent 45 seconds watching this one minute clip and 15 seconds watching this other clip so they
like cars and not trucks or whatever uh and so it bringing that to bear in reals on Instagram was something that required a new data center like it wasn't just something that they could just spin up on AWS or on their own servers because it required new new AI uh new AI data
centers and so Zuck famously when that happened he said I don't just want one realized um data center I want two Y and because then if we get caught again we'll just have one ready to go and then of course the llm boom happened and he was ready and he was able to train llama
really quickly and then they have been not dependent on any other llm provider and they've been able to just open source that but also use it internally for their chat Bots and so you so you can imagine that you know this it's like he spends $200 billion on this is it
just to serve llms in all of their apps they're probably looking at the data of how many people are chatting with llama across all of their apps it's looking really good but even if that doesn't happen maybe people start generating a lot more video and that's really Intense
or people start doing something else and it still requires a lot of Hardware a lot of AI chips a lot of gpus and so it's also you have to imagine that that uh you know we're in this sort of more Pro business administration if m&a come you know gets back on the menu in a big
way Zuck is going to get extremely aggressive acquiring these sort of breakout consumer AI products totally and being able to go to the founder of an AI company that has product Market fit but it's losing a billion dollars a year and saying why don't you join meta
I'll still let you run the business Y and you're going to have access to this $200 billion of yeah uh you know data center never be able to get on your own yeah you see you could see character AI having like a very natural home and fit within that metaverse and so I think my
read on this is is broadly that he wants meta to be independently competitive in AI yeah have you know you know not be held back by by you know gpus and just raw uh computing power and ultimately create you know allow meta to be a place where uh other companies can land and
get and be competitive with Stargates and Elon and things like that the other thing from this article that stood out to me is that um this line leaders at meta and open AI grew concerned about the speed with which xai stood up a data center to develop AI in Memphis
Tennessee last year so every single person that wasn't at xai watched what the xai team did in Memphis and that became the bar and so if if if um Zuck is paying uh you some you know executive team specifically around data centers you know uh combined I'm sure it's like
$50 million like some absurd amount of comp he's looking at them and saying this is the bar yep you should be able to achieve this because I know it's possible yep uh and there and there's um you know some some sort we've talked about this yesterday but uh some constraints around uh you know
potentially promises that were made around um ESG and stuff like that I don't know where meta lands with that but uh ultimately that's the bar now so and if Zuck is certainly going to be intense around that and say uh you know you know actually you know I would want
you to you know do it even faster because that's him as a leader saying you know he was wanting to really set the pace but that's a bar now and and yeah and when you launch a new llm like because the landscape is somewhat commoditizing like you have to be superlative in some way and so
essentially like open AI seems to still be on the the frontier of the frontier they they are the leading but every other company is a when they launch something they always have some differentiator maybe they beat them by just a couple points on chatot Arena or
M mlu or they slightly bigger context window with Google or you know oh it's uh you know it's it's open source and that's enough to be like well it's a GPT 4 class model and it's open source so now it's it's it's in the conversation whereas if you're just launching a clone
that's exactly like like you know uh open AI but like deep seek it's like oh they had this oh we we were it's so cheap and it's really cheap to use and it was trained really small and you can run it uh you know you can inference it so cheaply it's like it didn't matter
that they they weren't an order of magnitude better than chat GPT or gp4 What mattered was that it was at the same level roughly but then also had little bonus and I think that Zuck is is thinking about that right now as xai spun this up is like can their llama 4
drop outdo xai grock 3 because if it can't then they need a new Twist on it they need something else that that will really otherwise it's just you know it's not going to become some popular product yeah one interesting thing is U meta has not been nearly as aggressive of forcing
llama down people's throats as xai and grock have right so does feel right so uh most people are using grock within X makes sense it's already there they have the Standalone app now I think people are starting to use that more but uh meta with how much they're investing in
AI how much Zuck cares about this why is it that you go to your home you know why why have they not slammed this on the home row of Instagram which is a you know an app that I don't know do they they must have so I I would push back on that in some ways because they do shove
into it's more just that there's a conversation about AI that's happening on X that we are very much a part of and so we see that integration I don't know if you know basket Twitter is using grock in the same way that Tech Twitter is um but if you go to Instagram and you
type in a search term there's an icon right here to click you know put this in a chat and all of a sudden I'm talking to llama and so it it pulls it up right here and by the way guys John's explore page is cars watches and weightlifting very uh very pure yeah
most expensive Lambo let's do this and like very quickly it will it will insert me in a in a chat it it used to be really aggressive where it was actually hard to to pull this up but like you can see that like this is like you know um it's like if you search in Instagram you
will get pipelined into a flow they've gotten less aggressive about it but uh they are definitely slipping the AI in uh I think they're trying to do it Tastefully because there's there's often really big push backs to any changes in Instagram even when they changed to like
Hey we're going to put more reels in your main feed there was a big like backlash to that uh becoming more algorithmic people hey I built up a following of five million followers like now every post has to go viral or it's just a flop like that's not fun yeah in
the chat says didn't meta add artificially generated profiles I argue that's way worse than x they did but but but those never broke through in the same way that the grock narrative has on very different to be like I still use Instagram search to search for specific
things I don't go there with the intention all of I'm going to ask this llm a question that I have and they certainly they certainly haven't been pushing like a deep research comparable product in in any meta products that I'm aware of yeah um it would be cool it I
mean I one of the favorite parts of ax and xai is that you're on a you're on a post and you just click the button and then it just gives you more context and you can say hey write a whole report about this a lot more that's a really good point there could be so much more
like research like using Instagram for research I want to it would be very cool to be able to and maybe maybe this is possible and we're we're just not engaged enough with with uh llama but being able to say who do I follow or or who have I engaged with in the past that
has talked about intermittent fasting and then get you know a bunch of you know get a a return yeah I mean I was thinking about this just on X like I I really hope that that xai gets more access to my ex profile so I could actually say of the people I follow who are the experts in this in this right
now it's a little bit random it's really hard to search right now for for what's happening sometimes I'll just do uh filter follows and then the topic so I'll say Okay I want to see you know uh anyone who's talked about meta uh I'll search like meta data center filter
follows and then it filters out all the junk accounts that I don't follow and I'll just see okay Dylan Patel posted about it someone else posted about it Etc uh there's some interesting scale here we should go over uh The Meta The Meta executive discussed eventually
needing between 5 and 7 gaw of power for the site by comparison open AI has planned to acquire 8 gwatt of power for its proposed array of data centers known as Stargate by 2030 each gigawatt is enough to power 750,000 homes to put openai and meta projects in perspective at the end of
2023 Microsoft's entire Azure Cloud business had around five gws of capacity and that's across the entire world um so getting getting up there getting up there big big data centers training huge we use around one gwatt to run the show yeah it's great anyway um so everyone is
is focused on this drastically more or drastically less as meta charts as meta uh charts plans for a major expansion it is waiting on some of the Nvidia chip orders at plac last year Instagram head Adam maseri told his staff in a note this month uh meta is also contending
with uncertainty over how many AI chips it needs to train and run its AI we may need drastically more or drastically less capacity than we thought to build Frontier models that's of course about deep seek oh why you're laughing I mean that to me I mean is is relevant to
Nvidia earnings later because it's possible that companies are just you know the risk right now for NVIDIA is that companies massively you know o overspend and then flood the secondary Market you know end up having to offload some of these chips that are depreciating because the chips are
actually getting better Y and then it gets into a situation where you can go on the secondary Market not from Nvidia and buy you know uh however many h100s and and that Revenue no longer goes directly to Nvidia and Nvidia nukes like that that's a risk and so to to see the
head uh basically the CEO of Instagram he operates very much as uh in in sort of founder mode he still makes great videos about the platform and and uh helping creators there to say to see him you know it sounds like he wasn't intending this for to be uh to be
publicized but we may need drastically more drastically less capacity than we thought to build Frontier models that just says we don't know what's going on uh we're not you know that that's not a high you would prefer him to say we think we're going to need you know we're
pretty confident in our projections it's possible we might need more or less is very different than saying we may need drastically more or drastically less we have no idea no idea we're going to find out I tend to think we I'm still pretty scale pilled I I still think we need a
lot more I think that the the Deep seek optimizations maybe maybe we'll see uh but but I I I I think I think the Deep seek optimizations you get those and that's kind of like a onetime algorithmic benefit just like rhf was kind of like an algorithmic benefit but
then you want to apply scale to it and so I look at Deep seek and I say cool uh let's do all of the optimizations that uh deep seek did around memory bandwidth and and uh in int four or int8 instead of in32 all the different optimizations that they did let's take those and run
that at 100x scale and we'll probably get better models so the wild thing is is right now this is the interesting question and we're not going to go Cramer and start making predictions uh but Nvidia is worth almost twice what meta is today wow what does that look
like in a decade from now it's hard for me to it it's hard to imagine uh it's easier for me to imagine meta as a 10 trillion dollar company yep than it is for me to imagine uh especially uh than it is for me to imagine Nvidia as A1 trillion doll company and that that's um that's a
primarily uh Vibes based analysis but uh it anyway anyway yeah I mean when when you think about like potential platform shifts like um post GPU maybe you go TPU takes off that's rough for NVIDIA potentially if you're cut I mean Apple silicon is a non- Nvidia product right
it goes directly from apple design to tsmc kind of cutting out the middleman uh and then Quantum Computing Nvidia doesn't really have a piece in that at the same time like you know everyone's using these gpus right now and continues to versus the Facebook narrative and The
Meta Narrative of like if VR is big platform well they're really well positioned for that if you know this social stuff is really really sticky people you know can't really go rebuild their social graphs everywhere else um there's just all these different
elements where um Zuck seems to have his finger in so many different pies that could potentially be huge over a very long period of time but it's fun to figure it out but Jordy if you had $200 billion do to spend how would you track it all I would use ramp oh ramp save
time time is money save both easy to use corporate cards bill payments accounting and a whole lot more all in one place go to ramp.com and uh we will move on wait quick note uh a ramp SDR is in the chat right now under the account ramp SDR that's fantastic and they say when are
you interviewing a ramp s strr oh there we go we got to bring them up I would say that we have a nightly interview where I just call them up and we just chitchat that's fantastic we should start bringing him on the show yeah I love it that's great uh did you see this
uh uh this Alex Jones post exactly what we want to be covering uh but it is funny yeah this is this is funny because you need to put it on anytime you interact with Alex Jones because he's tinfoil hat City uh but uh he said major Scandal breaking Apple iPhones now
replace the word racist with Trump so you would use the dictation you would say racist and it would just autocorrect to Trump obviously that was very controversial and uh what's interesting is that there's a proposed Community note here that says this is false the
only way this happens is if you set up personalized autoc correct in Apple's settings this was staged for engagement farming and I believed that but then I opened the Wall Street Journal and the Wall Street Journal has an article here saying Apple has pledged to fix transcription glitch that replaces
racist with Trump and so what's interesting is that like I guess it was a problem I have no idea how this happen I I just I'm gonna text you right now yeah yeah test it out and see and see what it does um if it autofills it needs to be the dictation so you have to say
it you have to say uh you to say racist to the to the the the dictation button uh and see if it replaces it let's let's test this now live we'll get to the bottom of this Alex Jones you're in the truth zone no misinformation allowed here let's see uh racist what does it
say it says racist okay well debunked Alex Jones you're on notice uh but for some reason Apple did actually address this and they said they would fix the bug occurring on some iPhones in which its textto speech transcription software is sometimes replacing certain words
with an R consonant including racist with Trump and I'm sure uh the words rampant and Rampage at Al at at times also appear to be replaced with Trump and I bet you that's just something in the they're updating the transcription algorithm which we've talked about we
wanted them to do this there are always hallucinations whenever you build these deep learning models uh they're very hard validate and I'm sure just somewhere you know there's so much in the Corpus of like YouTube videos that they're probably scraping to train these
models of people saying tra Trump and racist in the same section or in the same sentence that some bit got flipped and all of a sudden it thinks that they're similar yeah I mean what Alex Jones I'm sure would suggests is that it was an activist employee of course oh
yeah I hardcoded this in and and I don't think that's what's what's happening did you notice that uh with some of the transcription models if you if you just triggered them and had it transcribe nothing like you didn't say anything and you said thanks like transcribe that
basically it would say uh like thanks for watching and don't forget to subscribe because it was clearly trained on YouTube videos and it was like the most the most popular thing humans say ever is Please Subscribe isn't that hilarious that's hilarious and so I we
say that I would open no no we don't we we we got it but yeah I would open it up and I would just push this and then this and it would and it would just say like you know oh thanks for subscribing or Please Subscribe um and so these these heirs happen all the time people blow
them out of out of proportion there was the there was the Gemini image debacle uh people said oh Chachi PT can do all these things grock is is advocating for you know giving Trump the death penalty uh it's all it's all over the place and people read into it whatever they want
whatever their political ideology they're like I got to get I got to score the points and so it does seem like there was an air it does seem like Apple's working on it but it also seems like uh you know uh Alex Jones was engagement farming a little bit um but
you know he's got to get that Creator payout you know done that before done that before uh this is crazy a Tik Tok user who goes by the handle uh David Medi PDX said on a post on the platform you say racist and it blurts out Trump the software correctly renders racist or
Rampage several times but occasionally when it is replaced it will dictate the word Trump instead of racist and so artificial intelligence has been known to generate unexpected results the current excitement around General artificial intelligence which is able to produce text and images has attracted
controversy over its propensity for presen erroneous fake orful content and this is why's been conservative with the generative AI St like the Moji why is it restricted to the just cartoons well if if you tell the model never create anything photoreal ever it's very
hard to say someone used Jen Moji to create a fake image of the president going to prison and it swung the election and so that was The Narrative of the election and I had a prediction that I think I posted this I need to take a take a Victory lap on this one
but I said that after effects would be more uh Adobe After Effects Photoshop the Adobe Creative Suite that would be more impactful in the election than generative AI because generative AI was still very clockable like you could see okay that's clearly an AI rendering of
of Biden doing something stupid or Trump doing something stupid like not many people are falling for that and then voting based on that but the but the but the video editing stuff was much easier to see and we actually saw a lawsuit about this where um you know I think it
was uh oh I'm going to get this wrong one of the major networks did an interview with KL Harris and then they edited it down and they took out some pieces and Trump sued and said you edited out the bad parts which swung voters to vote for KLA that wasn't generative AI that was just the the
razor tool Aral in yeah in in Premiere basically and and that those types of edits uh even even just doing little things like you're you're watching a clip of Biden you you cut it and then you add some extra sound and it sounds like he's taking an extra long amount of
time to answer the question something like that can be misinformation more than you don't need generative AI to do that uh and so Apple has been uh really on top of this stuff and playing it very safe I think that they should be more aggressive uh and I actually don't think
this is that big of a deal and I don't care what what's your take yeah it's just another uh moment that you can imagine the Apple exec are just deeply frustrated with all things AI summarization and AI you know dictation decoding uh so anyways well I'm sure
Apple will need to clean up their uh reputation they'll need to put up some new Billboards those gen mooji Billboards aren't doing a good job and when they run their next billboard campaign who should they use Jordy ad Qui let's go out of home advertising Made Easy and measurable say goodbye to
the out of the headaches of out of home advertising only ad quick combines technology out of home expertise and data to enable efficient seamless ad buying across the globe and I wanted to highlight a cool billboard from northr Grumman who uh you know the company's
not doing as well paler is bigger now we love andril on this show but uh hey it's a cool billboard and uh it looks nice it's a little B20 Raider right you have to imagine ander's been been very I think effective with their out of home strategy and in all the places that Northrup Grumman and
exec are also you know commuting around you have to imagine that uh they felt a little bit of a fire look at where this billboard is it's truly in the middle of nowhere no I I think that's in California outside of their testing facility which is cool uh and yeah I
mean if you're building hardtech take a picture of the hardtech make it look great and throw it on a billboard uh what a great way to get the message out there if you have a striking product and that's really where um where the the ad quick stuff and the ad of home really uh
hits its stride is when you can come up with with great copy great visuals that when they're put in the real world they make people people stop they make people take a picture of it they make people post the picture of your ad for free on the internet because it's so cool the
opportunity for apple is to look back at you know their Decades of incredible marketing and just run run back totally play the hits play the hits play the hits the uh they're more of a luxury brand today than anything and that's okay and gen mooji doesn't feel like a
luxury brand exactly it doesn't and and I mean I I hear you that they're a luxury brand and a lot of their products feel like like the airpods max those feel very like you wear them as a status symbol uh and you know the phones certainly feel this way um but they did
they did have like the fun color the the see-through plastic IMAX back in the day they've always had a little bit ofun doing a see-through phone you can imagine almost like an acrylic phone uh would be harder to break and replace but uh but good luck to them hopefully
uh we'll see some cool stuff from Apple and uh we wanted to move on to uh a new term we know we talk about decamillionaires CTI millionaires cenes billionaires Deca billionaires and now there's the super billionaires and the Wall Street Journal wants to introduce
you to the world's 24 super billionaires the ultra Rich are growing in numbers and changing wealth as we know it in 1987 Forbes published its first billionaire list there were 140 people on it com with a combined wealth of 295 billion at the time the richest person
was Japan's yo uh yoshiaki tuomi uh a real estate Tycoon worth 20 billion today the world's richest person is Elon Musk with a net worth of 4 lost 20 billion yesterday yesterday H it's a moment of silence for the capital erosion going on roughly 21 times as much as the previous Peak um
and so as the ranks of global billionaires have swelled dramatically in recent years a new category of ultra Rich has emerged the super billionaire musk is just one of 24 people worldwide who qualify for that distinction which is defined as individuals worth 50
billion or more as of Fe February these super bagine imagine you're you're sitting at 48 you thought you were ready to retire and they come out with this new definition yeah yeah and you're you're going to be thinking to yourself I'm so embarrassed to go to Davos this
year I'm so embarrassed for Sun Valley I'm not getting to invited to the super Bean a dinner totally I mean if I meet someone who's sitting at 48 47 billion I'm not even giving them the time of day yeah I'm I'm kind of Sni oh you want to be on the show oh you want to be on the
show why don't you pump those numbers up yeah why don't you go turbo long something right now and uh try and pump those numbers up uh well they have a very interesting list tons of people worth deep diving a lot of these people have been featured on David cra's
Founders podcast uh and let's go through them Elon Musk Jeff Bezos Bernard Arno L Larry Ellison Zuck Sergey Brin Steve B Palmer Warren Buffett James Walton from Walmart Samuel Walton as well from Walmart although they used to have the exact same net worth James is pulling away with 117 billion his
brother4 billion yeah something's going on there uh amonio Ortega Ortega is at 113 billion Alice Walton is at 110 Jensen Wong at 100 man he's up there now but that that St is doing well generational run it it has been it's it's fantastic he's been founder CEO of
that company for what 30 years now yeah deserved uh Bill Gates Michael Bloomberg Lori Larry pagee uh mesh and Bonnie Charles KO Julia KO uh Francois beton Court Meyers from L'Oreal gani from the andon group is at 60 billion Michael Dell is also at 60 billion uh zong Shan Shan from Nong Fu
spring no idea for pronounce all these and progo pretu is n fu spring the the water I no idea it is it's a bottle it's the dominant bottled water brand in China wow obviously um there's actually have I have a book on this guy that I that's just been sitting there in my
office at home uh maybe I got to pull it out Nong Fu spring mode yeah that sounds great um in major luxury real estate markets like New York Miami Palm Beach and Los Angeles and Aspen new super tall towers and specman manions have popped up geared specifically to the
billionaire set and there has been an explosion of nine figure home sales across the country you remember the the one in Beverly Hills do you remember that was a rough one yeah but that was built on spack they wanted to sell it for $500 million it would be the most
expensive uh home ever sold in America and it was basically just like billionaire bait it was like yeah we'll build this and somebody will come pick it up nobody really did the market kind of crashed it was kind of a disaster I think the bank wound up selling it to
the guy who started that fashion company fashion Nova yeah but at but at may be their cost or maybe they lost money on it I think I think the house is 100,000 square fet it has a 50 car garage it has a full club that makes sense it has a full club like the club for like DJ and
like you can host you can host like thousands of people there the LA fires are kicking off youve got your 50 car garage at one house like I need to move all of these tonight yeah very very difficult uh did you see the the video tour with the guy who built the one it's
fascinating so may maybe it's worth we should definitely dive this so he he basically made his money in uh direct to to DVD movies so he made a ton of money in like the 8S and 90s uh taking like cheaply made movies and then Distributing them into like grocery stores and people would pick up a new
VHS oh some jog Cloud vanam movie or something they and they'd pay for it so he made a bunch of money doing that in in Film Production then got into into real estate he built a home for the winlos twins I believe um and uh and then as the deal was kind of going south
and he realized like hey maybe no one's goingon to buy this $500 million house uh he was like well now I'm pitching it as a reality show to Netflix I'm gonna live here and we're GNA have concerts and he wanted to have like UFC fights there and stuff and he was really like
scrapping at like any way to make this deal work and I think it uh eventually the bank said hey you owe us too much interest you got to up I wonder what the appetite I mean a lot of these homes you know once you get into the $100 million plus range are are very much trophy
homes and uh for the people that are buying them they could burn to the ground without uh having making really a dent right like if you look at any of the this list if they lost $135 million home it'd be a basically an annoyance but almost a minor one at that compared
to the sort of day-to-day uh or year-to-year fluctuations in the stock the one out of the LA fires that was wild uh was uh the the $135 million home that was in succession oh yeah that burned down and the issue with these is they're just not like you can get
insurance on them but not actually yeah insurance that will cover any sort of you know even the the rebuild on it um so anyways let me keep reading the rise of the super billionaire marks a transformation in the composition of the world's ultra wealthy experts said in
the 19th century and the early 20th century the richest men were industrialists John D Rockefeller built standard oil into a monopoly Andrew Carnegie dominated the steel industry and Cornelius Vanderbilt a mast of Fortune through railroads their wealth while vast was spread across industries
that defined an era of physical infrastructure and Manufacturing through Standard Oil John D Rockefeller became the world's first confirmed billionaire in 196 during that period a company valued the the company's value accounted for physical assets like property and
Machinery more so than the types of intellectual property and promise of future scale and earnings that push up values today today's Tech billionaires make up a significant portion of the super Bill billionaire pool in addition to musk there's Bezos Larry Ellison Mark
Zuckerberg Steve Balmer their wealth is linked almost entirely to the stock prices and therefore future cash flows of the companies they started and there's an interesting kind of narrative violation in here Steve Balmer is at 157 billion Bill Gates is at 106 Balmer Balmer people don't like the
Balmer era for Microsoft like the stock didn't do as well Sacha kind of brought it back pivoted to Cloud the only thing I remember is the video you know oh yeah he was Sal that was that was great the Wild on here this this has been discussed a lot but it's worth bringing
up while we're on the subject there's only one investor on the entire War top 10 list which is Warren Buffett every single other person on the list uh was a founder or CEO you know uh or or part of the the family that started one of these companies and so yeah so when you're
ping VC I would argue that they're flexing on you and they're like oh yeah I'm a VC I make so much money be like oh I'll see you on the super beaire list yeah good luck trying to it luck good luck crack in the top 20 yeah good luck uh no but you you could also argue
though that that Elon you know people like Bernard Bezos Elon are actually the world's best Capital allocators they just of keep reinvesting into the machine um and so uh unlike past Generations where fortunes were built over decades today's Tech driven economy has also
enabled Founders to amass enormous sums in a matter of just a few years before his arrest in 20122 Sam bankman freed the now disgraced founder of cryptocurrency exchange FTX who we covered on the Monday show because he did a interview from prison uh he was
worth 26 billion before the age of 30 for instance that is so much money wow well I mean Sam is actually not there there's a world where if Sam gets another markup he cracks this list because at at the current I I would imagine so at the current he he got sevenish per of open AI oh you're
talking about Sam Alman Sam B fre I'm pretty sure Sam B and freed has no equity in anything right now he is destitute I I I you have to imagine that in that I bet youf has hidden away some coins but uh no Alman specifically you know I think he did he get 10 it was 7
to 10% so climbing up could be in 10 if they get the $350 billion round down and then they get a nice 2x you know just a simple 2x on thatx on that simple boom he's in he's in he's in the territory I mean you're certainly shooting for a trillion dollar company and you know
consumer consumer tech companies seem to be the ones that get trillion dollar valuations uh certainly not in the uh uh rare mineral mining business over here correct uh the Great American fortunes of today are new money not old said a 2024 report by the Heritage Foundation a
conservative think tank which noted the absence of names like asor Carnegie melon Rockefeller and Vanderbilt on lists like the Forbes 400 of the approximately 97 still living billionaires on the 2005 Forbes 400 list who inherited fortunes less than half
are still on the list today the minority of heirs and heises who remain on the list today were three times more likely to have fallen in the Forbes rankings then have risen and so bad day to be old money did you know that uh speaking of old money and uh television hosts uh
Anderson do you know that Anderson Cooper was a descendant of the Vanderbilt family I did know that yeah um but his his mom bowled out too hard so he didn't actually inherit much money no way well he's done quite well uh but he's done well yeah selfmade this this
is hilarious yeah so he he only inherited 1.5 million uh which is actually very common right in some of these families for overtime couple Generations down there's really uh nothing left uh so so they so they go to this economist Joseph stiglets uh Nobel prize winning Economist a professor at
Columbia University said he attributes some of the rise of the super wealthy to the inability of antitrust laws to contend with Monopoly power in the tech sector we've covered this before because a lot of these tech companies they do essentially have monopolies but not
because they are sequestering a particular resource they're not cornering a resource they have created uh aggregation platforms like Tesla is not a monopoly on cars you can just go buy another car and yet the company's worth a ton of money um and so the
antitrust laws are not really set up to bust these companies up yeah which is why Tesla's down however many percentages uh specifically because they don't they're not a tech company in many ways yeah and so we have antitrust laws that were well adapted to Standard Oil
but that don't work well here in the tech sphere Monopoly power has given rise to the potential of enormous amounts of wealth uh these guys have both at the corporate level and at the individual level been even better at avoiding taxes than in making good products Diglett says he's a little bit
of a hater the level of taxes they pay as a share of their profits should be an embarrassment to them he's he's wagging the finger but this is my favorite line in here Wall Street Journal they called for comment and they said the 24 super billionaires declined to comment or
didn't respond for request for comment they sent they sent this article to TW to all 24 people on the list and everyone was like N I don't want to be in this article I don't want to comment on my on on the on the tax subject so I mean Burkshire and specifically Warren
have been smart about advertising how much taxes they pay um birkshire paid $28.5 billion dollar of 2024 taxes um and I think at that scale when you're you know uh I think they you know making a a good argument that they're paying their their fair share there there's
also the argument that like yes like elon's notay that was the biggest tax bill single tax bill in history yeah and and and so a lot of these a lot of these guys they own you know 50% of a company it doubles in value they make $100 billion doll sure if they didn't sell
like why would you tax them that doesn't really make sense but they generate tons of taxes because when you go and buy a Tesla you have to pay taxes on that when when when you buy a product through Amazon or you know you're paying sales tax and all this stuff and so taxes are
generated by their companies and of course there's income tax of everyone who's an employee and they are linked to lots of taxes but yes they are not taxed on their wealth until they go and sell it and then they have to pay Capital Gains um let's close out here regardless
regardless the growth of the super billionaire segment shows no signs of slowing um it's plausible that we could see the first the world's first trillionaire in the next few decades that'll be a possible they are listening to the stream right now it's possible
one would probably have said no in the past but's possible these days so fascinating well if you're trying to win the favor of a super billionaire and you want to take him on a nice vacation where you going Jordie wanderer.com find your happy place book a wander with
inspiring views Hotel grade amenities dreamy beds top tier cleaning and 247 coner service is a vacation home but better we love wanders they are if you're looking to take a wander trip they're offering $400 off your trip uh for a spring sale that they're doing I
think it's for the next 24 hours you got to move quick but who we got to get on wander Ryan Peterson because he's always traveling he's always on the road he just posted this right before he came on the show uh he says jetw suet x with starlink is simply the best airline
product in the world right now he's getting blazing faster internet he told me he was we were trying to get him to call in yesterday and he was on a plane right when we were recording I said you got to get starlink on the next flight he had Starling so I experienced this
exact uh combo on Saturday yeah flew up to the bay and back and I think you could live stream like that this connection the cool thing is is you know if you're flying Delta or whatever they don't even really turn on the Wi-Fi until you're in the air and so you have
this potentially like you know period where you're disconnected starlink is just constantly on when you're next to the plane you know when when when you're in the vicinity of the plane so you can get on the compl sit down 5 minutes later you take off you're connected the
whole time it's amazing it's beautiful huge fan huge fan of starlink um I haven't had to use mine actually every I I I I bought it as a prepping thing and I fortunately had internet the entire time well we already talked about the doc workers so let's move on to uh Casey
neat uh fantastic vlogger really pioneered the Vlog on YouTube he says terrible idea but hear me out buy up all the Humane AI pins they closed the company last week reprogram them to only run grock sexy mode and boom we now have the thingy The Joker was in love with in the movie Her from
2013 he just calls walking Phoenix The Joker yeah I mean this is this is really what uh this is really the bull case for friend people fall in love with their device and AI can jack up the price you know 20 bucks a month forever and people will spend you know uh thousands of
dollars a year uh on their on their uh digital partner of sorts and so a lot of people were kind of going back and forth on this it's a little bit of a joke it's funny uh but I love this because Oscar here says we dot dot dot may have made a prototype of this once and Oscar was at
Humane he was at Humane and so now that Humane is is done all the Humane people like they clearly had a very talented team we've been working with Sam Sheffer on pmf or die and uh it's great to see that you know the gloves are off they can go have fun they can say hey look we
tried this but it wasn't some fraud you know we were all talented designers talented Engineers we just kind of missed the mark on the product we got a soft landing at HP and now we're gonna have fun we're going to tell you the stories of of what we did and uh and
kind of go direct which I think is great because you know this makes me aware of who this person is they're going to find a job and it'll be great yeah very yeah we didn't even cover grock sexy mode because it was uh vulgar and uh but it's probably I mean what I think grock is
doing generally is very you know intelligent by just being kind of obscene and the internet has always had corners of it that we're obscene Y and that's what gets people talking and using these products and so I think that while it is vulgar it is smart from a
user acquisition standpoint uh you know if somebody likes you know uh chat gbt for what it is a sort of work companion Etc uh and then they hear hey there's a version of this product but it's actually insanee and wild and entertaining they're much more likely to
try that versus hey you know we have a 1% better version of you know uh 01 Pro yeah like people just aren't going to care about that the same again it goes back to this idea that like if you launch a Frontier Model most people will not be able to detect two points higher
in MML or chatbot Arena like you got to come out with something different on the product side you got to come out with a different it needs to be opinionated yeah and that's what's happening with um all these products even with Claude you know people Claude is kind of the
opposite it's I don't think it's sexy mode I think it's uh but it is friendly and affable and people are are excited about that and then also it's just really good at coding so people have been into that anyway let's move on to Bridget Harris we had her on the show
yesterday she's back back she's back welcome back Bridget uh she says in the past day in the past three days the SEC the Securities Exchange Commission has dropped their cases against coinbase Robin Hood and Unis swap let's go this is great news yeah good good timing
Bridget comments there uh just some uh it's some some nice wins for the industry amid the market abolutely nuking uh the coin's down at 83 today off of a high of 105 or something like that 20% now uh but I think a lot of this was priced in and people maybe got a little bit over their skis on like
it's going to be perfect and Trump is going to buy a trillion dollars of Bitcoin and like I'm pricing that in too and so when everything doesn't it was priced for Perfection right and so now we're falling back but it's good for the entrepreneurs that have been working on
building products where the SEC cases of course if there's something really going wrong at a company like it makes sense that the SEC would step step in but what about the situation where it's just purely based on some regulatory uncertainty or some lack of clarity
around how you build these products I think I think everyone just wants everyone in the industry at least who's a serious player not like it's interesting because these are not these are across multiple categories you have uh uh you have one coinbase which was a you know trying to be a basically
regulated crypto product centralized exchange here in the US you have Robin Hood which entered crypto at a much later point I think in 2019 or 2020 fractionalized Bitcoin yeah it was fractionalized you didn't really own it and people push back against that at the
time but eventually got into some of these more high-risk volatile assets uh even more high-risk than than Bitcoin itself and then Unis swap is in a totally other category where this was a company that had a US operation and team but then also I'm assuming had sort of
offshore foundations related to their token and so they had like the most complex structur so it's interesting to see that across the board coinbase Robin Hood uh and unisoft squarely in in three individual categories are all now not having to fight these cases and uh I
think it's Hayden from Unis swap uh had a rough few years uh just sort of battling this I'm sure was massively distracting and you know Unis swaps in American company they they pay employees here in the US and they very much I think suffered by having to fight with the
SEC uh while uh International unregulated competitors Aid into their market share so they lost I think a lot of market share over that period but uh good opportunity for them to refocus here in America obviously for public company it's rough but for private company gets really really hard
to underwrite that risk as an investor yeah because you could say okay well you know maybe this maybe this maybe this case gets completely dropped in the new Administration so the the the impact the liability on their balance sheet right now is actually zero and I don't need to
worry about it maybe just some legal fees to string out the lawsuit until it gets dropped or it could be a million dollar fine or a $10 million fine or it could be shut down the company and you know seize the founders phone you know FBI raid like it's so hard to price what
impact of these suits will be because the the the regulatory Clarity is so minimal and uh hopefully we're moving towards something that's a little bit more clear Trump isn't exactly known for clarity there's usually a lot of chaos uh but hopefully things get clearer over
the next couple years yeah it's wild to think about uh there was a period in 2022 where coinbase was A7 billion public company and they went on to get this Wells notice which was the thing that everybody was afraid of and crypto was getting a Wells notice uh if they
were operating any type of exchange adjacent product um and now even though it's down you know dramatically in the last week still a $50 billion company so they've they they've finally you know uh this this recent news you know just happened and I I think was probably
priced in to some degree right totally um but uh but yeah they were a company doing you know basically over a billion dollars of earnings or something like that and getting getting like a getting 7 billion like it was almost offensive but people didn't want to touch it they
said this is going to get regulated into the ground there was a big period as as FTX was huge scandals people thought binance was at risk too people thought some of the stable coin companies remember I remember seeing the exact ethereum bottom which was around I think
$800 yeah and thinking I don't know what the floor is here right because all this stuff had been happening and it just didn't seem it felt like the the equilibrium price for some of these assets was dramatically lower than it ended up being yeah um and uh you know I
think coinbase has uh coinbase also deserves a lot of credit for leading the charge around a lot of the different sort of movements within Tech that have become now just uh part of the culture yeah it's interesting like coinbase has always been aggressive they've listed a
lot of assets some of those assets are kind of like you know not done that well but but they never became like complete like meme token like pump they ored around economic freedom right yeah economic freedom is people should be able to buy whatever they want exactly
uh but but yeah they ran into trouble recently uh around just how do we process listings many because there were you know it became clear the the meme sort of cycle sped up so quickly that if they didn't list an asset within the first 48 Hours it wasn't going to get
any buying at all because things would Po and then just go and then they become a a huge Market M as well in a sense of like if coinbase lists it you know it's going to pop and so there's all this speculation and then it's highly you know material non-public information
whether or not they're going to whether or not they're going to list it and so it all gets very complex but hopefully smooth sailing from here good luck to the coinbase team uh big fan of Brian Armstrong over there leading the charge in more ways than one um but let's move
on to David cenra the man himself founders he says a friend asked me to take a personality assessment and then he used AI to analyze my personality in every single episode of Founders this is the one thing the AI wanted me to know one thing you might not fully realize about
yourself is how rare you are and how valuable your level of obsession is your approach deeply studying biographies recognizing patterns across time and Distilling fundamental truths is something very few people have the discipline or patience to do
consistently most people skim the service you go deep this Obsession has shaped Founders podcast into more than just a podcast it's becoming a Timeless Archive of entrepreneurial wisdom you're essentially building a modern version of your personal library of the greatest
Minds ofes seem like the AI is using his own words to describe hey uh AI uh let's put away the glazin nator 3000 here come on tell me something uh you know tell me something senra hasn't told us yeah yeah yeah yeah throw some shade on senra take him down AEG AI you know a bit build
back up build him back up yeah motivate him say hey say hey hey that that last episode you know normally you you post weekly it's been two weeks what happened step it up yeah no we want senra to get he's already the best let's make it let's motivate him to get better it's okay even the goats have had
a rough season right and it's an opportunity to come back exactly it makes for a better storyline like you you you watch Michael Jordan you want to know oh he had that rough period where he dropped out when played baseball came back you know we want a comeback story here
we don't just want oh he's been on a historic run no problems in this guy's life no I want to hear about times his microphone broke he couldn't get the RSS feed to work couldn't upload it he did it anywhere yeah he he he's he's dealt with injuries he's told me yeah he's
talked too much he's lost his voice he has all sorts of different like loses to he knows it's the money maker oh he knows it's the moneymaker so she so tell me about this your your ability to push through the pain that's what makes you great David not not just your your
content which obviously is good uh your ability to connect past wisdom to present challenges and tell stories in a way that makes those lessons stick as a unique skill you don't just transfer knowledge you embed it in the people's minds in a way that compels them to take
action many people want to learn from history very few dedicate themselves to living inside it like you do that's what makes you work and your perspective so valuable so on on this note the other day two days ago I posted uh a picture of David with the quote I'm really in
the pursuit of greatness I know people don't usually talk like that but I want to be one of the greats David senra and nobody only like a handful of people noticed that that was actually a quote from Timothy sham but but senra actually talks like this and and the beauty of
hanging out with senra is that the podcast just morphs with real life so in the same way that when we're working out in the morning it's basically like an offline version of the podcast where we're just talking through happening and takes and different things like that
whereas hanging out with senra you actually get the wisdom of all the History's Greatest entrepreneurs because he'll just bring up the sort of obscure reference to you know something that you know Warren Buffett did in that that nobody else would even think of in that
moment and but he'll tie it back into how it's relevant and uh it's it's it's truly Priceless I can't wait to have him on the show again next time with video since we fig what we're gonna do uh we haven't even told him this yet but when we are doing a deep dive on a specific
company or entrepreneur we're going to just start calling him in and just start uh bringing that Founders level analysis to uh tvpn can't wait for it uh well let's move on Mark suster over at upfront Ventures says data rooms are where fundraising processes go to die
quote tweeting Bryce Roberts friend of the show he says no one finds conviction in the data room so true but also you know we were didn't really data room and sometimes like you you know you need to do the due diligence sure they had data room but it just had a a model that was
just extremely aggressive not an operating model at all just a purely uh Community adjusted evida based model yep uh but yeah I I notice you know I I put this in the stack because when I am talking to a Founder about investing ultimately if I want to invest I you
know on the first call I'll basically be like sometimes all this side on the first call if it's coming from an you know warm intro from somebody that I invest with a lot I'll just tell them right on the first call yeah I'm in for 25k uh just let me know when you need me
to close right uh other times it's hey let's go meet up and grab lunch and I'll hear a little bit more uh and you know I'm not a professional investor so my process is is uh should be quite different from institutional investors but if I'm actually not at all convicted
I'll just be like cool send me the deck and and I'll I need to like sit with it for a little bit and so investors institutional investors will get to that point where they meet with a company two three times they don't have conviction yet and so they say send the data
room and we'll we'll discuss it internally and get back to you yeah and that is the point that the deal Bas oftentimes dies yeah because it's hard to just look at the numbers and actually build uh Bryce here which which Su quoting Bryce Roberts friend of the show
no one finds conviction in the data room right you find conviction in the conversation and uh in the meetings and then um the data room is just sort of like almost you know checking the box of in case because you're only going to say no if you see what's in the data room
you're never going to be tepid and then see a data room oh blown away yeah you're seeing the data room and you're just you're you're only going to invest in the business if you think that you know entrepreneur is going to take it you know 10 20 100 times you know yeah
but you're looking for you're looking for bombs in the data room you're looking for like some contract or some I mean we we saw a funny one recently where someone sent out this was just an investor update but someone sent out uh a an investor update where they said they were they made like a million
dollars in the last quarter and then they said they quote unquote burned like 500k or something but when you looked at it they really were using burn just as expenses yeah and they were actually profitable yeah and but I was super concerned when I first saw it like how
are they burning so much when they generating so much revenue but in fact they were just they just misused the term burn to mean expenses and they were actually profitable but uh yeah that that like like that's you know an error to the upside uh but you're often
looking for that in the data room of like is there something here where uh there's been a bunch of companies that have been uh solid and then you dig into it it's like oh they have some crazy you know liability some contract that they need to pay that's going to be millions
and millions of dollars and that completely changes the business and that's something that you might find in the data room but you don't want you don't want the process to get stuck there you want to be firm ly handshaking we're doing this unless there is a bomb that we find or someone
finds in the data room interesting well let's move on to uh perplexity they launched a $50 million seed and preed VC fund why did you think this was interesting uh break it down I I think this this doesn't make any sense okay why uh for uh this this feels very 2021 coded
where a lot of companies were basically saying hey we should we should have our own little venture fund because everybody was getting a venture fund Y and it's really hard to generate returns in Venture yep you got to be crazy Insider networked great brand or you
just have to outwork the competition or you have to get lucky and perplexity what is what is the what's the reason that the next Google needs a preed fund today yep and who's going to be spending their time on it and why are they spending resources here Y and I'm sure
they have a a reason for it but you know maybe it's that hey perplexity relies on a bunch of these you know upand cominging models you know we use them in our product we want to be able to be invested in those companies and get some upside but a $50 million fund you're not
really going to get enough ownership to be that that meaningful especially uh and is it their money if it's their money I don't think that makes sense there there has to be better places they could spend it if it's other people's money then now they're managing this
sort of LP base uh just seems Seems like a distraction okay let's do some steel Manning on this uh first one arvind is super well connected totally he's he's a super well-connected in AI he's probably meeting a bunch of great Founders maybe he doesn't want to sell $50 million a
secondary invest on his own balance sheet would you give him a $50 million sidecar fund to write million dollar checks into companies that he meets randomly yeah why not I think that they will get into good companies sure I I think that this fund will not impact
their success as a business and I don't think they're when you look at where they are in the App Store charts yep they don't have time to be distracted that's fair and uh you know looking looking here the other uh Hadley's in the comments says that should be enough
for one investment is like kind of a joke but like some of these the kind of rounds that uh uh are moving the needle in AI are are ones where you kind rounds yeah you need to be writing a you know some of the most competitive rounds are are sort of these so the other flip side
that I'm thinking is uh we've seen these types of small funds from startups and scale UPS before uh slack had one that was specifically targeting at if you're a company and you're building a slack integration a slack bot a company that will be built on top of the slack API we
we want to help you get off the ground so we'll just throw you you know a venture investment to kind of help you build that business I don't know if perplexity is planning to think about it that way but you could think about this as almost like you're you're you're
Outsourcing a little bit of development of the ecosystem around your product I don't know if that works for complexity but you could imagine that there's other products that you could build on top of the perplexity API and you want to build those companies perplexity has unique
insight into what's going on with the product so they they they let you build that they put some money in they're getting the investor updates they see that you're taking and then they can acquire you and so it's kind of like Corp Dev marketing budget almost yeah
it's interesting so the funds GPS are Kelly gra and Joanna Lee chalenko okay uh they had another venture fund and so I'm I imagine they're sort of rolling their efforts into this new fund uh so in many ways like yeah maybe this is primarily you know perplexities anchoring the fund
their own Capital uh but again uh plexity is going to win because consumers want information and they go to perplexity instead of Google or open aai or any of these other you know chat uh chat interfaces and ask perplexity and right now I just think it is the most competitive category yep and uh I
think that the comments are very fair sure to kind of push back on this yeah I mean open AI has a startup fund they've funded a lot of stuff Sam has a fund yeah but it's different because you're saying you know you're basically saying we're going to give you a million dollar
you're going to spend all of that money back with us yep and you're going to build on top of our platform I don't see the the case right now that that people are going to be building on top of maybe they'll integrate perplexity right but for example public.com has a perplexity
like interface built on top of all of their data sure and they would be a good candidate to use perplexity but they built it in house and it works really well um no I agree with you I I I I think you've convinced me even though I played the steel man on this one uh
somebody's got to be the Steel Man exactly and again at the end of the day more money for great Founders yeah I and uh and I bet you they'll have good returns I just think it's it makes sense for the community to push back a little bit and say hey we want you to just
build the best possible search you know product uh information engine or what are they uh answer engine answer engine build the best possible answer engine I don't care that you could 3x a $50 million fund yeah well let's stay on AI and go to Andre karpathy former open AI
employee former Tesla employee he says agency is greater than intelligence I had this intuitively wrong for decades I think due to a pervasive cultural veneration of intelligence various entertainment media obsession with IQ Etc agency is significantly more
powerful and significantly more scarce are you hiring for agency are we educating for agency are you acting as if you had 10x agency you know who has agency a golden retriever golden retriever is going to get that ball when you throw every time not going to be the most intelligent
dog but the dog is going to look good doing it uh grock explanation is close agency as a personality trait refers to an individual's capacity to take initiative make decisions and exert control over their actions and environment it's about being proactive rather than reactive someone with high
agency doesn't just let life happen to them shape it think of it as a blend of self self efficiency um determination and a sense of ownership over one's path people with strong agency tend to set goals and pursue them with confidence even in the face of obstacles they're
the type to say I'll figure it out and then actually do it I was thinking about this like as a Founder um like I probably don't have more skills or than like you know someone who's like a you know high level pm at a tech company but like what the agency is the thing it's
basically just like yeah I'll grind on something for years and years and years and I'm used to like oh like things are terrible for multiple years like no problem yeah uh and I don't think that that that that skill set built everywhere in certain organizations it
is certainly but I noticed that in a class like in the classroom growing up yeah having an understanding that I that I wasn't necessarily more intelligent than someone else yeah uh yet I had more ability to shape a conversation or shape a discussion or things like that and
then carrying that into professional life and I think every anybody that decides I'm going to start a company is default sort of higher agency than you know or or do anything right it's high Agency for L Gill to be like I'm just going to build a monument because I want
to build beautiful things it's high Agency for uh uh Nat fredman to say I don't know how much plastic microplastics are in these Fair life things I'm going to find out I'm going to test it I'm going to just make it available right and so shouldn't just that that s you know
agency uh when channeled in an entrepreneurial way is is one of the most powerful forces in the world but it also is beautiful to channel it in other ways right it's important to channel it in your relationships with you know with your family with I I I've tried to
leverage agency in my HOA it's gone terribly uh uh uh but uh that's more of like a Zoomer uh Zoomer on Boomer you know dynamic um but uh but yeah it's cool to see this because I think for a very long period in Tech uh we've been obsessed with our high IQ uh Heroes and Legends and I think
that that's intelligence should be celebrated yep uh but for too long people would knock the founder that was high agency got a little bit lucky made it big and then when they were successful other people would say oh like he's not even that smart not even
that smart yeah and as sort of a as a way to sort of take them down yeah and we should be celebrating our golden retrievers the ones that go and get the ball totally and yeah they might look a little silly doing it sometimes but they got the ball they got the ball and
that's what matters yeah uh I I've heard some people Riff on this where it's like after you get to like 140 IQ you get up too high there's actually a fallof in terms of kind of your impact and you just go into like chess or like pure math and and then that can be extremely
valuable and and great for the world but uh it's not just that like the P the algorithm is not just hey we want to run Microsoft we need to find just to have everyone take an IQ test and the person that scores the highest becomes the CEO yeah I was thinking about this SAA it's
like why is he such a great leader at that company like he's there's probably smarter people at the company presumably working on crazy Quantum Computing and algorithms and all sorts of stuff uh but he has some blend of skills that take initiative make decision
and exert control yeah and he also Communicator too you see him on the dwar he has so many other Charisma it's like when you look at the stats I always think back to um like if you're building a character in Diablo or something in some RPG there's like strength which is
probably like your fortitude how much how willing how willing are you to just like grind and grind and grind there's intelligence of course which we all know but then there's also wisdom like how much knowledge do you have there's plenty of people that have super high
intelligence but super low wisdom so they don't know anything about yeah it's not just Street smarts it could just be like a super you take some math PhD or some chess master and you say hey uh come in and figure out this uh you know industrial supply chain and they just
don't know any of the Power Players they don't know how the thing works they don't know anything and they have to get up to speed on that maybe they can quickly because they're intelligent uh but then there's also Charisma there's luck there's all these other skill
points that you can kind of weave into your your build and uh it's always funny when you see someone like clearly specked into intelligence fully and none into whiz and uh they wind up making really silly mistakes um so I I think this is going to be a an increasing
narrative in the age of AI as intelligence you know the the golden retriever thing is like kind of a joke but there is a The Shred of Truth there which is that um purely relying on intelligence is not going to be enough and that there's going to be a blend of traits that we have a harder time
building models against because we don't necessarily have evaluations for agency yet or evaluation good a good example here is um some a Founder you know upand cominging founder with high agency Augustus Doro rain maker right he wouldn't tell you he is the most gifted
climate scientist in the world right because he did I don't even believe he studied climate science in school right but he came out he wanted to be able to make it rain on command and he is just you know yeah smashing through every possible uh you know door that getss put you know
or or sort of wall that gets put in his path yesterday he was posting that some state is trying to explicitly ban like his company from you know and he's just saying cool do it like I'm gonna I'm Gonna Make It Rain uh and so that type of both tenacity initiative uh the
ability to to have conviction in your decisions which I think is a big part of agency too A lot of people decide they want to do something take a few steps down that path and then hit some type of wall and say I'm going to you know I guess I went the wrong way well speaking
of agencies we got a present from a VC fund that also has a marketing agency attached to it now I think this one is yours Jordy this is from whiz over at space cadet space cadet classified this is I mean the design here is fantastic you open it and it plays a video of uh
it's an AI generated version of my name my name is John C I live in Pasad whoever seeing this I exist in the year it's not too late to fix it don't very fun wait so did you incredible execution but the only thing is that doesn't look anything like you in my opinion yeah some of them like uh
Shields looks pretty good very accurate there's the other guy from 50 years VC that I saw I haven't actually seen mine yet your like let's live react so I mean very clearly it's like a pipeline of they took your profile photo or an image of you and he takes your your image and
where you live my my name is that doesn't look like whoever is seeing this I exist in the it's not too to fix it don't have but I do this this star will get it looks similar to my eyes there's something there the hair's all wrong too short you would never do that with your
hair okay I think we can close that up it's very loud anyway um what a cool drop and I love this as an idea for you know high value clients uh marketing for a company I I think this is super interesting I saw Jake Paul did something like this for w where they did
the I don't know if it's AI deep fakes or something but uh the concept is really is really key here to getting it executed correctly obviously this is like a Sci-Fi themed Venture fund uh so uh you know you want to make it uh you science fiction Ty in the chat called it
teu Jordy teu Jordy yeah U but uh but anyway so so one of the cool things was this was timed with basically the kickoff of their new fundraise Y and I saw whiz shared uh we officially kicked off fundraising two weeks ago and we're already 50% to First close which is
amazing uh and uh so anyways if you are planning stunts it's important to time them up in a way that you can benefit from the attention because there's a you know I've had super viral drops in the past where we had we dominated the timeline for a day and then you know it
just you know the attention Fades and what did you actually get from it and so very well timed for for whz and the space cadet team to do this when they're you know wanting to get in front of uh you know a bunch of LPS and other investors and uh it's clearly
paying off yeah he's done a ton of these drops he did a Cards Against Humanity spin on Tech uh I also got a deck of magic cards with a bunch of different characters from Tech it imagined as magic card folks uh very fun very differentiated uh much better than a cold email for sure uh so always enjoy
that uh well speaking of funds let's move on to uh Pedro Santino he says today we are returning 7x cash on cash to our LPS go pedroo grateful hit the you got the size gong handy here we go Pedro this is for you and your LPS that's fantastic we love to see it leak that
newcomer leak that yeah newcomer yeah uh and BC brags is in the is in the chat saying sweet so just some pure pure content from VC if you're not if if you're getting the engagement from VC brags but not the dunk you're doing something right yeah yeah flexing but
not being like the humble brag just actually laying out the facts it's great it's the right way to kind of brag just say hey we did our job this is amazing people don't realize you know VC's get dragged a lot yep but their job imagine having a job where you think of it as a
10year engagement 10 plus Year Engagement where you do most of the work up front and then you just kind of have to sit and wait to see how you did and that level of waiting like most people do work and they want to know right away or that month or that quarter if it's
going to yield results and um it it's just uh it's an entire skill set in itself to have that level of patience to be able to do a bunch of work wait a very long time and and uh I'm sure that uh you know he did very well from this and uh it should be celebrated right the
same cultural movement as uh you know Timothy shalam talking about yeah his orientation it's like we should celebrate when uh somebody has a very successful fund that's what they set out to do and uh there's nothing wrong with with sharing news like that so it's
great well speaking of sharing news let's go to Lulu she says unrelenting torrent of AI news is The New Normal there used to be big launches every few months then every few weeks now it's every day of the week if you were waiting for an open window to do your launch don't wait and uh she's quote
tweeting Victoria who says La just making sure I'm not losing my my mind here last week we got grock 3 with reasoning plus voice mirror's thinking machines Microsoft's Majora ma majorana one Quantum chip Arc and nvidia's Evo 2 Google ai's co- scientist AI generated
gameplays Helix by figure a new clone Robotics and it really is like every single day that's why we need a daily we missed one of those da we missed our we missed Nvidia Evo 2 we did miss that God oh we'll have to follow up yeah no and the main thing here is it it it does
feel like if you have a if you're you know hyperscaler or you know one of these new mod Foundation model companies you can just pick a random day and launch and you maybe want to feel around and make sure one of your immediate most direct competitors is not launching but
one of the benefits you think that's what they do because I think that they see when the person's launching and they launch the day before yeah yeah yeah no but I don't think that works it also backfires to some degree because you can maybe you're only getting your 24 hours
of Fame and then there's something new and exciting so it's really difficult to time these it's hard to know what the actual right strategy but the other benefit of there being so much news is that people are more engaged in the news right we talked about this would we have
been able to do this show two decades ago probably not there just wasn't that much exciting stuff happening whereas now there's new exciting developments every single day and we have way more stuff to cover than what we can actually fit in the show uh and so anyways um
but yeah uh important to break through I mean it really underscores like how impressive the chat GPT launch was in my mind because the internet is extremely noisy you can't even share links anymore on X like it's very hard to go viral with a new product launch to the tune of
a billion users or a 100 million users you know yes yes it's totally possible to do a stunt or a viral video and get a few thousand people paying attention and then that starts the flywheel of growth and you grow your business for a very long time but it's hard to jump to you
know consumer internet level scale very quickly and uh yeah I mean breaking through is is harder than ever um so yeah for a lot of startups the answer is not waiting for the perfect moment where it's dead silent on the internet and hoping that you're launch goes 10 times
bigger it's maybe launch as soon as you can and then do a six-month second launch and launch again and then do a stunt this what we were talking about with Ryan earlier a lot of I I think once you're at Scale Company especially you know something someone like a
flexport or an Airbnb the average Airbnb user doesn't care about these incremental updates oh we made it you know slightly easier to like pick a oh you can now book you know anywhere in a 10day period you know it just doesn't really matter it's not as significant but when you bundle all those stuff it
can be it can show hey we're making major advancements to the platform every six months and people aren't going to care as much oh we hired a new Airbnb hired a new director of marketing yeah no one cares right we care but but uh going to make an ESPN video out of it
yeah yeah we will but uh but but for small companies I do think the right approach is you want to show the pace and the iteration and you want to just launch I I I've told Founders figure out a way to launch something once a week yep do try to be in the timeline in a
big way 50 times a year yep and you will build a brand that way you you can't build a brand off of two touch points a year yeah and also I mean talking to to to Ryan it seems like like the launch went well he you know iterated through all the different product improvements
that they've made but it didn't take over the Internet the way you know uh grock 3 did uh but it was incredibly valuable to the PACE and culture at the company that they had this and it's and that's almost and then and then that feeds into the brand and you start
associating okay yes this company feels like it's moving faster because I can see that there are that there are events and updates and so uh it's one of those like shoot for the moon you'll land amongst the star situation where like if you if you start launching more
frequently you start batching launches even if those launches don't wind up going Mega viral and 10x in your business at least you're on a product development Cadence that is quick and that's valuable so I love that so get out there and launch and call I mean an example of a launch that maybe is
getting a little bit lost uh is this company paper which is coming out and they they look like they basically cloned figma completely down to some of the branding even just feels like an extension of figma uh and again uh they they launched they got some traction but
uh they didn't even break through to the same degree that I I would have thought they did they would have you know they got like 100k views to me yeah um opportunity for them to just keep launching and uh you know continue to Double Down yep well good luck to them
and that's our show for the day do you have anything else Jordy that's it I'm excited for tomorrow it's good to be back in the studio thank you guys for tuning in thank you for tuning in leave us five stars on Apple podcast and Spotify and when you leave us a review
put an ad for your company or your favorite company in the review description we'll read it on the show uh send us any questions follow us at tvpn uh subscribe follow us on YouTube all the things and thanks for watching we will see you tomorrow have a great day thank you