we can't play that on YouTube though right okay can you check that welcome to technology Brothers the number one live show in Tech we are live from the Temple of Technology The Fortress of Finance the capital of Capital today is Thursday February 20th 2025 and this show starts now we got a
great show for you guys we're going through a new humanoid robot uh it's completely normal not weird at all totally normal uh SAA Nella did uh dwar cash Patel's podcast it was a fantastic hour and 15 minute long interview we're going to break down some of the best
takes from that and give you some updates on Microsoft's new Quantum Computing chip uh Nicola the uh kind of Tesla knockoff company the the robotic truck Tesla of trucks the yeah the Tesla of trucks if you just ignore they went bankrupt uh and we're going to break down the story there give
you a little bit of History give you some details of what's going on in chapter 11 uh and then uh we are going to go through some timeline and read you some uh some hot takes and some great posts on X and so let's kick it off with this video of Clone robotics they
announced protocone the world's first bipedal musculos skeletal Android and let's see if we can pull that video up and see okay and I do you see this video Jordy Incredible video I don't know if we're going to have sounds but they have this sort of dramatic I think they were
playing the uh yeah we West World oriented I think it was from Oppenheimer or something but it was very creepy and I think that's what they're going for like they're going viral every single time and they're getting attention amazing way to get attention I think
what they need is a coherent argument of why the humanoid should be musculoskeletal right like is a real reason other than the and maybe maybe they could argue oh we can take off the little meat suit basically like we can take off the plastic meat suit I think that's uh I think that's step two like
Step One is get the attention get the hook and then step two is make your case and so I'm listening like right now because I've seen this and it's been so jarring and it mission accomplished doing like Elon numbers exactly doesn't even want them to be doing that exactly
accomplished I want to more I want to more and when they follow this up with more detailed analysis a blog post a video even an interview the crazy thing is they have like everything about this is just built for the feed totally because it's it's muscular skeletal but
it's also faceless which makes it even more weird totally so you have this humanoid that has like basically skin and muscles and like all this ability to do weird and the thing is is like this thing is going to be able to move in in ways that that are deeply that just trigger the human mind to be deeply
concerned because it's moving in ways that mean that the human body would be breaking it's deliberately uh horror film inspired it's deliberately weird uh it's the opposite of everything that uh what was that Japanese company that did azimo do you remember that robot that
humanoid that they did back in like the 2000s do you remember azimo no so azimo was deliberately designed to be like short and cute and friendly and it was like this little robot and it just looked like something a Pixar film and then wh do you remember the the early
whmo cars they were like these little bubbles they were made fun of in Silicon Valley cuz they were like these little circle with like cute little like headlight eyes and they were clearly the mission of the designers at Google and wh was let's make this thing look as
friendly as possible don't make it look intimidating it's a robot people will be freaked out let's make it look like accessible and a lot of companies have gone that direction these guys are going the exact opposite direction and they're getting a ton ton of attention for it
and hopefully they can convert that into fundraising hiring development progress all the things they need to do to actually make yeah this looks like objectively a cool company to work at Y and uh just just generally interesting right coming out and trying to be the
the the third or fourth Optimus or you know now we have Optimus yep figure Neo Boston robotics yep unit tree they all kind of figure fall in the same yeah and they all have different strategies for getting attention and actually growth like Neo's like bringing them to streamers and like kaat is playing I
thought that was smart with Neo I the only thing is I've gone through this before it can be a total trap to start getting like outsized attention before you're ready to capture it it's good from a fundraising standpoint you know I'm sure that clone you know a bunch of people
are seeing this and wherever they're at in their fundraising journey I actually don't know but I'm sure people are reaching out being like I want to put money into this company because investors are sort of trained to pattern match on on U differentiated thinking to
some degree so like just the you know you could argue that long term maybe it doesn't make sense to have like all these fibers surrounding the humanoid but uh that being said just the ability to think and figure out how to for clone to figure out how to differentiate
itself whereas I think a lot of the average consumer will be able to differentiate clone in a couple years maybe they won't be able to differentiate Optimus vers fig versus Neo right it's going to all blend together unit tree right they just sort of look all the same so very intelligent
um attention strategy and uh should we go through some of the posts yeah I mean so they they follow it up and they do give a little bit of explanation here they say the protocone is a faceless anatomically accurate synthetic human with over 200 degrees of freedom over
1,000 myofibers and 500 sensors and so I think that you know whether or not you think complete replication of the human is important in robotics context there's a lot of questions about like hey do we even need to give them legs like maybe if they're running around a factory
throw some wheels on them un tree one that's like dog shaped will just be flipping but it also has wheels and it can do all these things it can stand up but then it can go four-legged um so I think I think like if you're starting from scratch thinking from first principles you would actually kind of
refactor some of the problems from a human uh and give it more arms or less arms depending on what the job is I don't know don't want to be you know don't want to be uh full of hubris but uh maybe we are perfect but we might be goated we might be goated yeah the the
bipedal the bipedal the bipedal form fact it did evolve over millions of years allegedly yeah yeah well uh scientists said let's go to the Bro scientists uh well let's go to Samoyed online Samoyed says yep boss the promo video is going great I got the twitching humanoid
robots strung up on a meat hook and flickering lights they'll love it it's amazing I mean it's just working exactly as intended this got 70k likes and another 2 million views oh my God this did get another 70k likes so yeah a lot of these views have to be driven by quote tweets because it's so easy to go
V 20 million views is a lot of quote tweets tough to do fantastic and then Atlas good friend of the show uh chimes in says terrible quad insertions and the delts are hardly capped midsection also looks to be in poor condition and I actually laughed out loud at this I
think it's so funny uh just yeah we need to be so so Atlas is absolutely right you need to be evaluating humanoid robots as though they were going for their ifbb Pro cards you know exactly the these presumably there will be humanoid bodybuilding weightlifting powerlifting Olympic weightlifting
competitions and it's important to like put them you know you know really try to try to put them up against the best humans in this isn't close to samsak by any means I I I even opposite shade I'd like to see them give the Clone spray tan like give like a Sam Spray
tan just super dark yeah super multiple layers of spr spray t for sure uh give it a face some smiling white teeth yeah you know we won't have humanoid AGI until one of these wins the Arnold like that is the only that's the real that's the Benchmark I don't care about mlu or
CH Arena I care about the Arnold that's a cougan CO CED Po got exactly and llama here says 60 G protein diet never reached failure barely even tracks reps sets or weights thinks creatine is illegal got not going to not going to make it on that but uh you know we're
talking about ways to get attention obviously viral videos work very well if you have a viral product like a synthetic humanoid that's super creepy but sometimes you don't and sometimes you just need advertising that's why we want to talk about ad Qui big sponsor on the channel they make out of home
advertising easy and measurable say goodbye to headaches of out of home advertising only add quick combines technology out of home exper expertise and data to enable efficient seamless and AD buying across the globe and what I want to add here is AD quick can also
help sponsors get very you know sort of Brands get very creative oh yeah so uh this is sort of dark but you know how the cartel will sort of hang up you know uh bodies over you know over passes clone could hang their their their uh humanoids from meat hooks like they did in their video just hang them
from like overpass on the 101 right I think there's a collab in the future there there's a great collab there but yeah if you want to if you want to get creative hit up ad quick and uh let's get back to the show uh so py McCormack says Jesus dwares Patel is cooking
because he launched a new podcast with Sacha nadela and uh it's it is crazy seeing how far this podcast has has has come uh dores has done Zuck he got the exclusive for the Llama 3 release uh and that was fascinating because the New York Times Ro a piece about meta
launching llama but they didn't get an exclusive interview or a real interview at all they just got a statement the death now of traditional media Basic Value is that they would get the exclusive EXA right and now that you have trillion doll company CEOs realizing that they can get more impact
and still get the news out on the New York Times by going to somebody who's who's much more likely to be friendly and not try to sort of position them negatively yeah just focusing on that you know dwares is not like oh like you know talk about your relationship with Sam Altman
he's like let's focus on on like the reality of what's Happening Here and the New York Times would just take it to this place exactly that SATA doesn't want to go nobody really wants to go there let's just focus on the matter at hand yeah it's the TMZ like dwes is not
dwares by nature of being an AI oriented podcast he does not need to do clickbait in order to you know he doesn't need to to try to make it more dramatic than it is to get listens like every single person that that you know is is relevant in AI is like going to at least figure
out what they talked about here yeah yeah and so SAA really did break the news about Microsoft's new Quantum Computing project on the dores Patel uh podcast which is incredible uh and there's a little summary here by prash Adie Sacha is out tldr Microsoft doesn't
believe in AGI they're wear of overinvestment and the open AI partnership is over allegedly Ai and AGI are overhyped uh satcha says us claiming us self- claiming some AGI Milestone that's just nonsensical Benchmark hacking to me the real Benchmark is the world growing at 10% GDP I love this
we've talked about this before artificial economic intelligence I was trying to coin something around it and I was basically just saying like I don't care about any of the evals the eval is the economic output and SAA did a better job condensing it than I did but uh
really like that is how you measure the value of AI is what that's something that's something that everybody like it's very uh as somebody who will be a power you know Microsoft uh presumably will be one of the most powerful companies in AI just by nature of the the overinvestment in in in compute um
and positioning it's very smart for SAA to say you know what I actually think is most exciting is the excessive GDP growth which will create massive Surplus in our economy and enable everybody to benefit from it even if right now they're just you know watching brain rot
slop on Tik Tok right so like even the people that are just doing nothing to be participate in this sort of broader technological Trend if this plays out they will benefit from it massively and I think that's beautiful that's capitalism at its best baby it's it is it really is uh SAA goes on to talk uh
about he's very negative on more capex spend from Microsoft if you look at the Industrial Revolution there was a lot of money lost which is hilarious because everyone saying oh this is the next Industrial Revolution he's like I don't want to be the person that over invested
in the wrong type of windmill so so this I think was in response to dwares saying hey if the if the if we can get to 10% GDP growth which would basically be 5x in our current growth which would be tremendous D Cas was like why don't you spend 10 times more on data center build
outs and he and he basically said well we're kind of like scaling it appropriately right it's like finding this balance between you don't want to have over supply of of you know I'm excited to be a leaser I build a lot I lease a lot yeah I love it yeah so he's he's saying here he's fine if if other
people overbuild because he'll come in and say well we have basically all this demand we'll help we we'll basically B you know we sort of uh you know make long-term commits to your compute and then we'll sort of Chunk it up and sell it you know in consumer in some
categories there may be some win or take all Network effect chat GPT is a great example of an ATS scale consumer property that already has real escape velocity in Enterprise buyers will not tolerate win or take all where the buyer is a corporation Enterprise and IT
department they will want multiple suppliers that is what will happen even on the model side and so this is why uh this is we we've talked about this a bunch of times on the show our sort of generalized belief that Elon thinks the value he was able to catch up with xai in terms of like General model
capabilities at least like within within the ballpark he still clearly believes that you know he he it seems obvious that he would like to control chat GPT as a consumer product company right and he sees that as potentially being you know this trillion dollar company and
now there's all this fud like a lot of people like to say oh open a eyes Yahoo you know look at look at their market cap but you know I think there's a strong case for you know a a dominant consumer you know new consumer app company yeah so prosh uh closed out with five opinion uh sections or maybe four
takeaways uh Sacha is calling the bubble in the buildout the crazy people like governments are entering the game he's happy to lease from them when they overbuild uh yeah so he's talk is capped he's talking about like a a country you know like Malaysia who's like we should
get in the data center game and then and then realizing oh we actually don't have the the technical expertise to efficiently deliver this compute to end consumers okay we should just partner with Microsoft and kind of let them you know operate it and Microsoft is happy
to take over that supply and then ADI goes on uh he's disappointed in the a in the open AI partnership SAA sees them as having built a great consumer app for themselves with dominance in the category but models for Enterprise usage have gotten commoditized which is kind
of interesting because it's like yes you are disappointed but uh like it only because you didn't predict that I guess which is kind of odd uh he's so done with the AGI talk if you can't get to 10% Global growth your AGI talk is meaningless to him I love that uh and
then the last thing he's backing Microsoft from the capex precipice it's funny because he certainly did make Google dance but now they're committed and now they're committed to insane capex but he's out of here uh yeah one of the most meaningful dwar cash interviews so far making Google dance
it's a it's a good PHR it really I mean it does not feel like uh the the the you know Sacha is in a different League than than Google's leadership at this point like it's just it seem you know I'm sure that they'll say hey we should get our guy on D cash yeah but
you know yeah yeah done it I know he's done some interviews with a few people I mean he's done some with uh with MKBHD but I just don't see Sundar pushing as much and also it's a very different organization where the founders of Google are still dipping their toes in
every once in a while like I firmly believe Bill Gates has not been back at like you knowy hey sa I got an idea for you in years yeah definitely not so Sundar has not been on dwar o and what was his last like we need to build a our next can can Sundar is Sundar the guy to go on a
two-hour podcast or is he more of the is he more on comma manager mode comma mode manager mode yeah uh maybe I mean he should figure it out um because it's an important skill set if your CEO can't go on a two-hour podcast you're cooked you know how during the uh during the
election I said that there was the the cougan parlay which was you you bet on poly market for uh Trump to do over three hours on Rogan for kamla to do under two hours on Rogan she wind up doing none and then whoever does the longer Rogan interview wins the election because I had this whole podcast
election thesis um I want to see on on public uh a basket of of tech stocks for where the CEO has done an hourong plus interview on dwar cash I want to own that basket the new QQQ oh oh oh basically if you're running a public compy no if you're running a public company and you have the chops as
a CEO to Duke it out with more cash for a couple hours I think the podcast index podcast CEO index is crazy you know carps carp's done them uh there's a lot of people that have done them so uh that takes us to our our next sponsor public uh Investing For those who take it
seriously they have multi-asset investing industrial industry-leading yields and they're trusted by millions uh public earns High marks for ease of use and investment selection so go check it out at public.com and I wanted to mention public because I wanted to know
after after after Sacha did dwares what happened with the Microsoft stock so I have a chart here on the next slide uh which is Microsoft's uh past week and you can see uh they he goes on D Cas he uh announces this new um uh Quantum Computing thing that we'll talk about
and the stock popped up 2% and so uh the the company has been doing phenomenally and shout out to Sacha the absolute dog uh let's go back to his uh discussion about AGI and that 10% Milestone I think there's some interesting uh quotes here because dores pushes back and so Sacha
is saying you know us claiming some AGI Milestone that's just nonsensical benchmark haing the real Benchmark is the world growing at 10% and then dwares says hey look if the world's growing at 10% the economy is 10 100 trillion globally if the world grows at 10% that's an extra 10 trillion uh you're
investing 80 billion as a hyperscaler that's not that much money shouldn't you be doing 800 billion if you really think in a couple years we could be growing in the world economy at this rate so you know revealed preference he can kind of be like look Masa thinks he should do
500 what are you doing yeah yeah that's basically what he asked which I like cuz it's like this is a this is a this is actually a hard question but it's not framed as a gotcha or some sort of like you know negative thing it's just hey this is actually the real question we
should be discussing and Scot says that's correct but by the way the classic supply side is hey let me build it and they'll come that's an argument and after we've all after all we've done that we've taken enough risk to go do it but at some point the supply and demand
have to map that's why I'm tracking both sides of it you can go off the rails completely when you're hyping yourself up with Supply side versus really understanding how to translate that into real value to customers that's why I look at my inference Revenue that's one
of the reasons why uh even the disclosure on the inference Revenue it's interesting that not many people are talking about their real Revenue but to me that is important as a governor for how you think about so he's like hey Microsoft we tell you how much money we're making from inference and that's
the real value of a AI it doesn't matter how much you're spending training the models it matters how much money is being generated from the usefulness of those models like that is the big risk right now like the the risk for the hyperscalers is is not is not getting in
the general real like not having a gen generally accurate demand prediction right so if you way overdo it you're going to get crushed because people just say look you know these guys can't accurately predict or or utilize the supply they're bringing online and then
the other side is probably what SAA would prefer which is hey we we went big but not big enough and we're trying to race to kind of fulfill that right and especially now with Elon showing how quickly you can build these massive clusters you know 200,000 GPU cluster and he's ramp wanting to ramp to a
million uh as soon as possible so it just shows and and I think it goes back to Google like we saw in uh Google's Cloud uh earnings report that they were capacity constrained and so I think they missed earnings on Google Cloud because they weren't able to deliver services
but I think that SATA is saying hey were they capacity constrained on the training side or the inference side because those tell two different stories about the actual value because a whole bunch of companies can go raise a lot of money and show up at the hyperscalers and say hey I need I need 10 billion
dollar worth of worth of training compute right now and that's not the same as 10 billion of useful AI product GDP growth right like training does not necessarily get US GDP growth and so uh sat is really throwing the gloves down saying let's see it let's see GDP growth
show me something AI people yeah it's great and that's exactly how we should be thinking about this stuff it's so good and so Dart cash goes on he says so if you really think there's some potential here to 10x or 5x the growth rate of the world and then you're like
well what's the revenue from gp4 if you really think that's the possibility for the next level up shouldn't you just let's go crazy let's do hundreds of billions of dollars of compute I mean there's some chance right and so D is like doubling down on this question good
followup and SATA says here's the interesting thing right that's not that's why even that balanced approach to the fleet at least is very important to me it's not about building compute it's about building compute that can actually help me not only train the next big model but also serve the next big
model until you do those two things you're not going to be able to be in a position to really take advantage of your even your investment so that's kind of where it's not a race just to building a model it's a race to creating a commodity that is getting used in the
world to drive you have to have a complete thought not just one thing that you're thinking and by the way one of the things is that there will be over to your point about what happened in the era the memo has gone out that hey you you know you need more energy you need more compute thank
God for it so everyone's going to race in fact it's not just companies just deploying countries are going to deploy capital and they will clearly uh and so I'm excited and he's about to say like they were clearly like get actually like these countries are my pay pigs uh and so I'm excited to be a
leaser Because by the way I build a lot I lease a lot and so he's saying like look yeah some of that cap expend is going to go out but also we're going to be leasing because we don't want to be holding the bag and so there there's a little bit of game of musical chairs
going on with some of the build outs little bit of nervousness I don't know he might be wrong he might be under building uh the the the the Pascal's wager for uh AI buildout at the hyperscalers for a long time was if you if AI is fake and you uh and you overinvestment
job but if AI is real and youinvest you definitely lose your job yeah and so just in terms of like you know I want to I want to maintain my job everyone had the same incentive of like we got to go all in because there's no there's no downside here um let's move on he says
uh he's talking about how AI takeoff is a risk and uh and S's and SAA is bringing it back to like okay how is that actually happening uh he says to your point I think that one the reasons why I think about even the most powerful AI is essentially working with some delegated authority from some human you
can say oh all this alignment and all that that's why I think you really have to get these alignment to work and be verifiable in some way but I don't think that you can deploy intelligences that are out of control for example this AI takeoff problem may be a real problem
but before it is a real problem the real problem will be in the courts no Society is going to allow for some human to say he I did that and that's why I've said that the you know a lot of people say oh lawyers are cooked why are you going to need lawyers to um uh to do you know
things when you could just ask an AI hey can you create this document and send it for Signature and boom it's done and people I think are still going to want to be able to say like we had a human sign off on this AI output and so lawyers might spend less time on
individual documents yep but they will probably do more they have a higher output because business owners as an example will do more legal work because it's cheaper yep and right now all day long business owners will skip a dock because they're like oh this person's just working on like this small thing
you know we don't need to put it in a contract like it's not a big deal but then as it gets easier to just like you know basically chat gbt hey can you make the stock freelancer agreement send it out for Signature boom it's done y it will just happen more Y and same thing
same thing with capital allocators you know these big endowments are like cool I'm glad your hedge fund is using AI to make investment decisions but you better be signing off on you know the vast major any transaction over a certain amount because if you lose our money
like we want to know who's responsible and why it happened and you can't just say you know blame it on your your yeah do you want to summarize that that uh experience we had with that young kid who was thinking about going into fun to fund management yeah so so we we met up with
a with a listener on the show who goes to school at USC which is around the corner from us and um yeah he he was you know our Our advice to him was generally uh you know he was saying just trying to get a sense of what jobs are still going to exist within the space and we felt
pretty strongly that you know specifically he had an offer from a fund of funds to go join and and and go there and I think our Our advice to him was generally that job will still exist for like a number of different reasons but you should still figure out how to use
AI to be exceptionally good at your job to write software for the work that you do to just be even more efficient and you should be thinking of it as how do I use AI so that I can manage you know uh exponentially more capital Y for my firm yeah basically on day one being the most
Junior employee at a company historically that has not meant you show up and you have 20 direct reports unless you're like I don't know like a new unless it's like oh yeah you're some new grad and you're hiring a bunch of people that are you're managing people that
didn't go to college but in most in most firms in most investment firms you come in you don't have any direct reports and after a few years they give you one intern and then after a decade you have a team under you but with AI it's like on day one you can have 20 employees
effectively and you can have a Devon working for you and and a and a de deep it's actually a very interesting way you're going to have the younger generation who learns to manage they should be managers on day one for sure before they ever manage a human yeah no totally and it's and it's many of the
same like workflows for managing people you can use for AI it's like yeah you don't want to let the AI just run off for 4 days just like spinning their wheels like doing random stuff spending money or time or inference totally you want to have them execute something give
them quick feedback you know make sure it's good have them keep going right but then you're balancing that now you can manage you know you could be managing five or six yeah 10 20 agents at once that are all doing carrying out individualized tasks yeah uh and so uh yeah I mean they talk about Rogue actors
a little bit and how some societies might allow for a fast takeoff but again I think that uh there's there there's a huge pressure against that in the same way that we haven't had nuclear war even though yes there are some countries that are rogue States there's enough pressure
to globally I don't think SAA wants to say that but I do think that if there was some AI lab that was truly working on some you know killer AI uh there would be a lot of pressure from the International Community uh militarily to stop that and it would be the same thing
if you tried to build it in San Francisco uh and at the end of the day uh someone has to push the button to deploy the killer AI at least initially and uh and that person wants to survive and there is the threat of violence from governments and so it's less of a risk
than I think most people think anyway um I love this question uh because it gets to the kind of just a really interesting narrative violation in Silicon Valley uh dwares asks SAA is being a company man underrated you've spent most of your career at Microsoft and you could say
that one of the reasons you've been able to hold add so much value is you've seen the culture the history and the technology you have all this context by rising up through the ranks should more companies be run by people who have this level of context and he says he says
that's a great question I haven't thought about that way we have to have a company man of the year award for sure this year for sure I think it is underrated in Silicon Valley and I think um it's very it's very interesting uh and so he says through my 34 years now at Microsoft each year felt more
exciting about being at Microsoft versus thinking that oh I'm a company person or what have you so no ego about it which is there's a huge mtic pressure in Silicon Valley to not be a compy man yeah yeah oh it it' be better to run a $1 million seed it's almost to the point
where people people don't real like many people in Tech the things that they want in life are all achievable on a million dollars a year total comp sort of salary right like everything you could want like the nice house the cars the the second home kids in private school it's
all achievable on that yet they think that the only way they can get that is if they have some big liquidity event I big liquidity event before I'm 30 and I need another one you know and then I'm going to do my big company and then it's lot of those people like how many
of those people would have been a great pm at meta and just don't realize the kind of compensation that you can get by just working up the or totally and the excitement of working on products that instead instead of working on your like vertical ass app that has five users working on some working on a feature
where you're like like people joke about oh you're just changing like the rounding on the button or the Hue of the button it's like well that's pretty cool if you have 20 million people clicking that button every single day or two billion people case of meta like two
orders of to that crazy I'm just saying even if you're working on like some obscure part of the settings app totally you're still getting millions and millions of clicks potentially an hour potentially adding more value than someone who's saving people time and is
money yeah yeah I know it's fantastic uh and so he says I take that seriously even for anybody joining Microsoft it's not like they're joining Microsoft as long as they feel that they can use this as a platform for both economic return but also a sense of purpose and a sense
of mission that they can accomplish by using us as a platform that's the contract I love that that's a great distillation of what it means to like hire and you can tell these hired well because of that uh so I think yes companies have to create a culture that allows people to come in and become
company people like me Microsoft Microsoft got it more right than wrong at least in my case and I hope that remains the case yeah it's interesting that when you look at Apple Google and apple Google and Microsoft now they're all run by Company Men yeah and and
that's been and and the thing that you know we're seeing with SAA is SAA goes founder mode right founder mode is going on the upand cominging AI podcast and being willing to talk for two hours about what you're doing right right yeah Sundar on the other hand you could argue
no these guys are in manager mode Tim Cook is over at the John Summit concert dancing uh you know instead of you know working on the next uh Computing platform and like you know he's done a great job of of that type of manager at least to date yeah well speaking of the
next Computing platform uh the big announcement was uh a new Quantum Computing chip and so uh that they had sitting on the desk right yeah yeah uh quantum computers you might have seen have been um uh you know it's usually like this this super conductor like Frosty hey like super cold like gold
like crazy looking device in essentially a lab certainly not something you can rack on a server uh Microsoft claims to have boiled it down to a point where uh this could potentially be scaled into uh you know millions of cubits uh which are quantum uh which which we'll go through
here so uh Elon shared a grock analysis of quantum Computing and the ma majorana one chip which is Microsoft's new Quantum Computing uh Quantum Processing Unit so we'll give a quick overview of quantum Computing imagine a computer so powerful it could solve problems that
today's supercomputers can't even touch that's the idea behind Quantum Computing unlike regular computers which use bits that are either zero or one quantum computers use Q bits cubits are special because they can be zero one or both at the same time thanks to a Quantum property called superposition this
allows quantum computers to process huge amounts of information all at once making them potentially gamechanging for tasks like simulating complex molecules for drug Discovery optimizing massive systems like traffic or Supply chains and cracking tough math problems there's
a catch cubits are incredibly fragile they can lose their Quantum State and thus their information due to Tiny disturbances like heat or noise this fragility is one of the biggest hurdles in making quantum computers practical now Microsoft launched the majorana chip
uh majorana one ship and it was funny because in the interview uh s has like clearly heard about the project for a long time but he like didn't know the final code name because they probably have code names and they're launching it he's like I think we're calling it majorana he kind of had to like check
that um but it's founder mode it's a new qpu Quantum Processing Unit which could be the successor to the GPU the TPU now the qpu is designed to tackle this fragility problem uh it's the first chip to use a topological core a Cutting Edge approach that leverages exotic particles
called majorana particles uh these particles help create a special kind of Cubit called a topological Cubit which is more stable than the cubits in most other quantum computers here's what stands out uh material it uses a new type of material called a topo conductor
it's more stable and it's more scalable and so Microsoft designed this explicitly to support a million cubits which a huge leap and at that point you can actually start doing like real math and real problem solving as opposed to uh a lot of the a lot of the systems
that IBM and Google has science project it's like oh yeah it's 10 cubits it can it can theoretically do the hard math but it can't practically actually solve so many companies that had uh what was that AI project I forget who he was in it wasn't started with a W maybe uh
you're always saying oh it solved this there d-wave d-wave and there was retti no no I'm I'm not talking about chip uh it was like IBM what was IBM's big AI project Watson Watson yeah Watson Watson got smoked Watson get smoked s yeah they Crush in Jeopardy for a while that was good stunt it's
interesting that that it seems like these big you know uh Legacy Computing companies had these science projects and they seem to be content with them being science projects and being the sort of marketing right because because Watson yeah I haven't even seen anything about
it in the last year well now Watson is a is a Consulting Group that will help you implement llama essentially mogged mogged mogged but also as we've seen there's a lot of money to be made in just AI transformation sure but why have a decade plus long science experiment that you just end up as a consultant
impl a marketing it's a marketing project for your consultancy okay and so I'm just saying like when you call uh you know Exon Mobile and you say hey we want to help you implement Ai and you say uh oh what company are you from like IBM we're the Watson group you remember
the Jeopardy thing yeah we've actually partnered with Facebook and meta to vend in one of the greatest llms at the lowest cost yep not a bad pitch not crazy but the real reason why they missed out is that they weren't deep learning pilled they weren't scale pilled and uh and and Ilia Suk like the
magic at open AI was that there were a ton of papers that were being released around the same time he read the Transformer paper and was like this is it and he identified that and was like let's go implement this and let's scale this and that was like and that was just
a very very key thing um it is interesting that everyone else is catching up and Watson isn't like hey us too cuz they could have done you know if they were cracked they could have done like a deep seek thing or a llama fine tune or Mist I would I also wouldn't be surprised if the best people at Watson
got poached to go to the other yeah but I mean yeah the the company is not set up as a as a research like software Enterprise company anymore it's very much lot a lot of Consulting anyway let's go back to uh the majorana chip uh it relies on majorana particles which
are fascinating because they are their own anti particles uh this property makes them ideal for storing Quantum information in a way that's naturally protected from certain errors picture it like this think of a regular Cubit as a spinning coin that's easily knocked over
by a breeze a topological Cubit is more like a knot tied in a rope no matter how much you shake it the knot stays secure interesting metaphor from grock Microsoft achieves this by using a topo conductor or material that combines the properties of a conductor and a
topological insulator this setup allows them to create and manipulate majorana of particles forming stable cubits why is this a bigger deal well more stable more stability faster progress and Microsoft is super committed to this they've been researching this for 20 years and they' had a bunch of stuff see
that's the kind of stuff like I want to see the 20 years of research and then boom we're going to commercialize this yeah and so they actually had some setbacks uh in 2018 they published a paper on Quantum Computing and they had to retract it because this the P there
was so much push back from the scientific Community uh and so uh the article highlights potential applications they're going to work on self-healing material sustainable agriculture saf safer chemical Discovery and going forward they still have to scale up going from 8 cubits to a
million is a massive engineering challenge it's not just about adding more cubits they all need to work Flawless we're we're focused on doubling here yep they're focused on going to eight to a million but all the best all the best uh you know projects are uh but
let's go to Nature so I believe Microsoft published their paper in nature and there was some push back and I have an article here from nature that will kind of show uh you know a little bit of Truth Zone on Microsoft's claims we'll see how if we agree with it or not
we'll let you be the judge uh so he says Microsoft claims Quantum Computing breakthrough but some physicists are skeptical the tech giant aims to make topological quantum computers that will reach useful scales faster than competing techn Technologies um and so
machines based on topology promis to be easier to build at scale than competing Technologies so again it's not that they've built the million Cub machine yet they're just saying hey the tech tree has been going this direction and we think if we go in this direction it'll be a faster shortcut to
the quantum computer that we want that will actually be able to like you know simulate the universe essentially like the the Cubit the the whole thing with Quantum Computing is that like you can do such complex like you can break encryption but you can do such hard
Computing problems that you can actually like instead of just physically like modeling like the pen dropping and and it's like the pen has a weight and it and there's like a force it's like you can model each atom in the pen and and it's like yeah no problem like sure that
even though that would be like sounds good boss insane amount of of calculations so the announcement came in a February 19th press release containing few technical details but Microsoft said it has disclosed some of its data to selected specialists in a meeting at its
Research Center in Santa Barbara California would I bet my life that they're seeing what they think they're seeing no but it looks pretty good says Steven Simon a the medical physicist at the University of Oxford UK who has briefed on the results it's got to be such a crazy Dynamic doing this Frontier
research and it's bace like Quantum Computing and any day you don't know if you're going to wake up and and your and your Nemesis is going to like publish this sort of groundbreaking piece and then you have to sort of react to it but you got to be like somewhat supportive
because you want it you you ideally want the space to be pushing forward and getting more investment y but then simultaneously there you know you want to be the guy that like has like the the the Breakthrough that really matters so he's like yeah like it seems seems legit
wouldn't bet my life on it you know and so uh I say at the at the same time the company published intermediate results but not the proof of the existence of topological cubits and so big question on what was on that chip because it's kind of the classic like there and I got
the thing and who knows if it's working and it's not working it's like why did you why did you instantiate in the physical world like clearly from a marketing perspective the reason that you say like I'm showing you the iPhone is because like it's real and you can buy it and like Steve Jobs pulled it out
of his pocket and was like this is a real thing you wouldn't you won't believe it be brings a chip around yeah Beth Jus does this too uh I think Beth Jos is in one of these uh tweet threads being like why is this a big deal like I don't care about this uh it's heating up
but I mean in the markets generally uh Quantum Computing has become very hot there's a lot of spacks that were down and now they're popping again and so I'm sure we're going to be hearing more about this the very interesting thing is that most of the Techno Optimist pull on
public what what was the uh look up retti Computing I think that's probably a good one uh d-wave I think as well but um it's very interesting because you can look at all of this it's like one of those things where people overestimate what can be done in a decade and
underestimate what can be done in a century or or overestimate what can be done in a year underestimate what's what can be done in a decade's all over the place they're up they're up 16% this month but it's been it's been oh up 700% the past quarter I told you yeah 10x so what's the market
cap now uh they're at 2.68 billion wow losing 60 million a year on 11 million of Revenue yeah I mean they can't possibly have Revenue because they haven't created a Quantum no no one has like it's it's not like there's no work to be done it's a research organization
now but you're betting that they will be one to commercialize and if they do it'll be extremely valuable uh so good luck to him um wait what you got somehow up that yeah I I mess right it's it's 960 over the past quarter so it's 10x over the last quarter wow yeah $270
million company and now it's A2 billion doll company hopefully other you know companies you know Sacha sees this and says okay this is a new bar now I need a 10x Microsoft in the next quarter let's go what would he have to what would he have to announce you know he would have
to announce we solve Quantum Computing um but I mean to my earlier Point like uh a lot of really smart tech people that I talk to do say yes like this is the century where we will solve Quantum Computing it's going to take a long time probably longer than we estimated it's
hard to hard to exactly you know uh you know forecast it out but when we do it will result in crazy crazy new abilities yeah um and uh yeah one one one guy I was talking to very successful founder was like so million Cubit uh you know quantum computer by 2040 2050 uh talking to somebody else and he
was like yeah maybe and he's like so Dyson Sphere by 2100 uh and he was like yeah that sounds about right and it was like so casual but I was like that sounds crazy but also like that things are really accelerating and we're building crazy stuff like you know you think about a hundred years before we we
can talk to the computer now yeah 100 years ago we didn't have computers at all yeah nothing it was like you know it was like trains are cool 100 years ago yeah uh trains still cool trains are still cool but now we need more them we don't need more of them but yeah uh well
let's go through other uh interesting hard tech demos that kind of went off the rails and landed one guy I think in jail at least one we're moving to Nicola and uh we have a chart here from uh the the stock is all over the place uh the market cap is at 40 million they
declared chapter 11 bankruptcy today were in the Wall Street Journal and so uh it's interesting it's interesting that there's somebody out there that's still buying Nicola shares today because it's still they declared bankruptcy but obviously you can still trade it yeah so
somebody out there is watching some like slop YouTube video of like Nicola being the future and they're like oh this company seems really cool a lot of SLO yeah but at their Peak they were in the multiple billions market cap and they've dropped significantly uh let's give a
little they they popped so in in June of 2020 yeah few months after the pandemic started they went public at at uh around 20 202 billion 20 billion where they they didn't go public they didn't so they sped that's crazy St are normally like four billion doll companies and this is
five times SI but the but think about the the pop on on so many I know I know looks like a me meme coin chart it really does look like a meme coin chart uh and and it had about as much tax as a as a meme as a memein yeah and what a silly name it's like Tesla already exists let's make a company called
Nicola clearly people will think it's it's literally meme coin it's like how there was like uh you know there's Trump coin and then there's Melania coin it's like oh Joe Bowden and KLA Harris or whatever Hillary Clinton coin or whatever uh or even after Dogecoin there
were like cat coins and uh you know they were like the monkeys and then the dogs and the owls and all sorts of stuff uh people know when there's attension just Farm a little bit sneak a little bit off the side yeah proven proven uh path so this story starts back in 2009 uh Trevor
Milton the CEO of Nicola uh he had a project called de hybrid for Swift Transportation it fails amid accusations of misused funds hinting at Future deception uh in 2014 uh he founds the Nicola Motor Company after selling de hybrid touting re revolutionary hydrogen
electric trucks with Hefty seed Investments 2016 the nicka one truck is announced with claims of thousands of reservations and Technology years ahead of its competition what was the Nicola one truck was it actually a like a commcial semi semi uh like a 18wheeler type truck
I don't know yeah and it's so funny because the strategy of saying hey we have this uh you can reserve it for either no dollar or $100 remember the Cyber truck it was like 100 bucks so like I had numerous friends that were like oh yeah I threw 100 bucks the novelty of being able to say like yeah yeah I
pre-ordered one I think you have to put down like 50k yeah which is like a wildly different bar yeah but for that buyer it's you know true change but but like they had an announced pricing so I guarantee there'd be there's like a massive price elasticity to uh to you
know electric car pre-order deposits so if the Roadster was a 100 Buck down 100 bucks down and they were like hey maybe it'll cost 50 bucks and it'll be better than a Turbo S like people would definitely be jumping 50k yeah they like hey maybe it'll be 50k and you only have
to put 100 bucks down now like even if it came out at 200 later people would pre-sell a ton um which could be good for just establishing demand but I don't know and just for context I think uh like to to put in some of these like pre-orders like I think the Humane pin
even at their price point got like 7,000 pre-orders so like they couldn't even get pre-orders based on a device that didn't act you know the Humane device didn't work reliably yeah get to that but uh anyways back back to trucks okay so uh December 2016 they unveiled the nickola 1 prototype despite obvious
signs it was not fully functional I.E visible external power cables so people are like wait a minute there's a there's a cable coming out of this car you haven't untethered this thing uh and in January of 2018 that's that's a year year later it's funny because it actually wouldn't be that damning if
they were like Hey we're going to make the car roll uphill because then you could say well we don't have the battery set up yet but we have it connected to basically an extension cord it's like a vacuum and then we're going to get the B we're the engine's going now we're going
to get the motors working now but but instead they you know put it in motion two years later well yeah basically yeah a year and two months yeah so they do the rolling truck video a promotional video shows the truck quote unquote in motion but it was later revealed to have
been rolled down to simul they actually towed it to the top with a tow Tru and and then rolled it down what's funny is like is like I'm sure if you're building a car there is a process where you go from like we're in the clay you know the clay like where they carve out the
design then it's like hey we have cat designs hey we hey we M we fabricated like the external shell yeah hey we we fabricated like the the the wheels and the transmission and the axles enough that it actually moves and that could have been just a cool thing if they
didn't lie about it and been like look yeah it's not actually working yet but we got it rolling at least it's just funny because you presumably could have got the rolling truck video in the first month oh yeah by just building out the frame putting wheels on it you know
getting I mean there are like kit car guys that can do that in their like garage on the weekend with great there's some great videos of people making like like things that look like Porsches that are just totally fake yeah you've seen the uh the the uh for the Fiero the
Pontiac Fiero people put body kits on that to make it look like a Countach because it was a Mid Engine sports car from the 80s by Pontiac but it's like you know 10 10K or something so you can just mod it like crazy uh this is hilarious in May of 2018 they sue Tesla for $2 billion over design features an
action scene is both bold and bizarre two billion just like the company that the company that names themselves after a derivative of Tesla then goes back and sues Tesla yeah it's like you'd think you'd be getting sued bold and bizarre egregious uh hon the whole thing the
whole thing Nicola bold and bizarre that was there that was there to boost credibility they refund all pre-ordered deposits despite not having delivered a product probably just because they raised some money off of the off of the off of the pre-orders and they didn't
want the pressure from the consumers uh April 2019 Nicola World spectacle is just not a good name for anything a lavish event unveils multiple prototypes and secures a high-profile order from anheiser Bush so they're you know they're deal guys they're making deals
happen I guess uh but rough Milton purchases a 32 million dooll Utah Ranch and uh and public offers proposing a Tesla pickup design draw increased scrutiny and so by November of 2019 people are getting real suspicious of this guy he's he's uh you know suing Tesla launching these weird truck videos
where they're kind of fake and then also propos the guy who was just suing them for $2 billion is now giving them design saying hey Tesla you guys should make this yeah wow hilarious kind of gang do you see the next one the Nicola Badger you want to read this uh February 2020
so this is this is a few months before they spack uh the uh the company unveils the Nicola Badger pickup with over-the-top features including a built water fountain from fuel celling sa can you imagine you just like I mean as a father I do like trucks yeah I mean
you're in the filtered water game Jordy why not why not put that fanatic yeah um maybe we need to hook the Aurora up to the exhaust of the the cooling of the turbo it's funny this truck looks like I've got it pulled up right now it looks like a complete knockoff of the tundra
meets a TRX uh and uh a water fountain using the the dis dispensed fuel is pretty cool so funny uh but but like again great viral story Little feature and you know to be fair like the cybertruck and other Tesla products have had similar things like that like the model X has the gowing doors that are
like total Show Stoppers and it's like you could just do minivan doors on those but get more atten you could do the minivan doors the uh the the one thing about minivan door I mean all these types of doors having kids I got I got a Mercedes van cuz I realized being being
able to just sit stand and just put the kid straight in put the kid straight in with the seats but then the doors you're always kind of worried like are they going to get yep anyways I I thought that was very smart Elon has always been able to thread the needle and the Tesla team around novelty and
and like actual function utility totally because like think about fure another wi cyber truck is very gimmicky but it's also amazing because you're in this huge truck and you just move your hand like two inches you're turning and then Tesla also does like the the novelty of oh
we're going to make like a fart sound effect the car totally um Nicola could never no no no never so June 2020 uh the frenzy begins Nicola goes public via a spack skyrocketing value despite having zero Revenue as investors buy into the hype so immediately uh can see on public go go
you know basically pumps to20 billion and then just uh drops basically every single day for the next uh five years I'm sure they had I got to look uh they had some they had some uh bounces mentioned here who's that Hindenburg um anyways so in September 20 2020 they had sped in in March or or
June sorry uh so just a few months later GM announces an 11% stake so they they take a public you know position in this public company and plans to manufacture nickola trucks only for Hindenburg research to expose a series of deceptive claims so terrible look for GM uh sounds
like they didn't do a lot of technical due diligence first they s they went and visited the ranch in Utah and they were like this Ranch is awesome the tech must I hang out with this guy more the tech the tech must be great shortly after Milton resigns amid mounting evidence of
Fraud and the GM deal is dra dramatically scaled back um yeah I'm sure they still like had their position you know hopefully um and then at that point like this is so long long ago like a little under five years ago and so there's all this legal fall Fallout ju
July 2021 still like the the absolute top of the market Milton is indicted on multiple fraud charges in October 2022 he's found guilty and sentenced to PR prison with Hefty fines they're clearly clawing back um you know I'm sure a lot of I'm sure he did various transactions
over time uh that he benefited from personally Nicholas settles with the SEC for $125 million over misleading investors so they had raised I'm sure billions of dollars through through their public offering um and then in February 2025 today with production delays Financial struggles and a tarnish
reputation nickola files for chapter 11 so um anyways wish wish the story Had A better ending um but uh it's it's honestly in some ways amazing that they uh are uh made it so far even after their founder you know went um uh was was out of the picture um it's crazy on
public they have there's been $27 million of volume today whoa so is this I'm trying to understand who's buying the stock at this point do they feel that I mean who knows right I just it's so bizarre I mean this is just such an interesting company because I they still
they still are loaded up with death similar to Theos similar to Theos like this is this is one of those companies that I feel like was like an open SE Secret in Silicon Valley that everyone knew that this was fake yeah like there was never a moment where people were like oh maybe this will work out like
I'm was it wasn't like Tesla was losing Engineers to Nicola that never happened uh and also there were never VC funds piling into this I just pulled up crunch base and uh uh it was the US Department of in of energy uh cnh industrial General Motors California Transportation
Commission so like the guy was clearly just just really good at Rising like non-financial investors who don't do this stuff and I'm sure that if he if this uh if this found walked into like a Holy Trinity firm and tried to pitch this they would have gotten laughed at
at this time the other car manufacturers didn't really have a strong EV strategy MH it did make sense from a narrative standpoint that there would be a commercial you know commercial focused version of Tesla focused on trucking everybody knew that Tesla would eventually do this but it wasn't a
priority for them right and so from a narrative it all made sense that doesn't mean that they can actually execute on that narrative and and capture value based on that long-term Trend and and who knows you know I know Amazon has EVS now but it doesn't seem like EVS have
gotten that sort of widespread commercial they haven't had the level of traction that that EVS have had in the commercial Market at least so uh Milton is indicted the CEO on multiple fraud charges this is around 2021 2022 and in October oober 2022 he is found guilty and sentenced to prison
with heavy fines Nicholas settles with the SEC for 125 million over misleading investors and uh just now the reason we're covering it today is that it's basically the end of the road with production delays Financial struggles and a tarnished rep reputation they
struggled for they filed for bankruptcy he's going to be out of prison in 2027 let's get him on the show I mean like Conor laughing um uh I mean maybe you know this is another thing we believe in Redemptive Justice right yes and uh you know if he does his time the main thing is I want to see
some Banger deep Tech analysis I want him to come out with some ground I want him to hit the books be the Dylan Patel of the EV the commercial EV space yeah handr analysis yep on happenings prove that you're the real deal yeah not just a charlatan come out with some some
groundbreaking research show me that you've at least read every book about battery cell technology 42 so he's not even going to be 50 when he gets out he's born in 1982 that' be great little bump in the road and um get him back in the game get back in Action yeah I love
I love a comeback story America loves a comeback story uh let's see so another green green energy unicorn died Wednesday as Nicola Corp filed for chapter 11 bankruptcy the 11-year-old Eevee maker aspired to be the Tesla of trucks they went public through a spack uh they got uh they they benefited from
the Green New Deal tched a$ 27 billion Market valuation at the time that was greater than Fords what a coincidence wow uh lots of people trying to take a shot at Ford at Ford Ford gets I mean Ford's Lindy they're going to be around longer than all these companies if Ford
had AIA that that is a hundred billion doll company for a while there was a there was like a grandson of Henry Ford running the company Bill Ford which was awesome because their because their tagline was built Ford tough and his name was Bill Ford Bill Ford tough kind
aough for I love Ford as a first name I on on our list for you know the next the next Sun Ford Hayes sounding name yeah I like that yeah yeah I mean i' I'd love to see Ford make a come back I had a Ford Explorer at one point that was a great car the Expeditions fantastic uh Ford G
fantastic Mustang also great you know these are great cars but let's bring them back uh supposedly sophisticated investors were taken in by its marketing hype General Motors took the 11% stake which CEO Mary Bara hailed as an industry-leading disruptor uh it was supposedly sophisticated uh it was dis
it was disruptive in a different way uh they posted a video on Twitter of its Model Truck appearing to power effortlessly down a flat road with the caption the Nicola hydrogen electric trucks will take on any semi-truck and outperform them in every category weight
acceleration stopping safety and features all with 500 to 1,000 mile range it would that would be revolutionary if true it wasn't according to a 2021 federal fraud indictment of founder Trevor Milton an inoperable prototype was towed to the top of the hill then nickel employees
released the brake so it looked like it was cruising along all while the door was tape shut to keep it from falling off and its batteries were removed prevent the truck from Catching Fire rough after taking investors from a ride uh Mr Milton was the only ride they they
actually went on good writing good writing good pun journalists are underrated underrated who is this this is Wall Street Journal opinion section it's great uh California regulators and the Biden Administration tried to boost the electric truck Market with mandates and
subsidies the inflation reduction act included a $40,000 tax credit for buyers of electric trucks EPA rule last spring requires that electric truck models make up 25% of Long Haul Tractor Sales by 2032 man talk about a bull case for Tesla now it's crazy uh another electric
Mo truck maker Lordstown Motors filed for bankruptcy in 2023 Fisker failed last June rough time the British electric bus startup arrival sold its assets lots of bad stuff going on in the EV truck Market power law rules everything around me that's the story here anyway great
opportunity though for one of our our listeners to become a hero come in pull them out of chapter 11 run it back up to the top yep you're definitely going to get it you know you could this could be turn into a meme coin turn it into a meme coin yeah and we were saying
earlier actually just continue it you know you know Trevor's GNA try and come out of the clink uh W hit the ground running build a new company one thing in the clink so gonna be a young man in the clink bed's famously uncomfortable maybe he needs an aid sleep that takes us to
our sponsor Aid sleep nights that fuel your best days turn any bed into the ultimate sleeping experience you can get one at eight sleep.com and we have another post from eight sleep they uh formulated and sleep elixir with Valyrian root Nature's secret to winding down faster you can check that out at
eights sleep.com as well and so we love a sleep and thank you one note on they set up a URL asid sleep.com tvpn oh cool and they say uh TB approves the pod which is the name of their product oh yeah the Pod approves so they could just say the pod approves the Pod we have a
quote up here that says you can't publish 15 plus hours a week of live content without being at Peak Performance we simply wouldn't be able to do what we do without eight sleep and if you want to win as bad as we do you can't afford to not sleep a oh that's that's amazing okay yeah we simply we
simply wouldn't be able to do what we do without a sleep and if you want to win as bad as we do you can't afford not to sleep on the Pod so uh check it out same same pod that huberman uses I love it I love it and Rob over there absolute boys let's move on to some drama between
Salesforce and Microsoft you know we love Dr show it got spicy I love when I love beir on beire violence I love it I love it uh Mark Benny off and sat Nella have been going back and forth there's an article in the information breaking it down but first I wanted to pull up uh
what the stock has been doing so we went to public.com we looked at Salesforce they're up 20% in the last 6 months market caps 3 10 billion it's a big company big big big big big company CRM big business but they but they own everything now they own slack and they're trying to get everyone to
upgrade to uh slack AI have you been getting those notifications I haven't seen slack AI oh man like whenever you're in slack now fun every there's a mod that pops up request AI David saaks launched like a slack competitor that leverages AI didn't he build the like a
like a slack slack like that was his main thing right that he sold to Microsoft almost clicked on David snack which is a parody account well um saaks what sax pulled uh his chat I was thinking of Yammer like that was the company he did after PayPal and he sold
that for a billion dollars yeah so he last year he announced an AI powered work chat app rivaling slack called Blue um anyways I didn't know about that interesting okay well anyway let's go to this article in the information Salesforce in talks with Microsoft Oracle and Google about Cloud deal to
hand AI uh Salesforce Mark benof has long been a vocal critic of Microsoft a couple years ago he accused the company of violating antitrust laws and how it sells software bundles more recently he slammed its artificial intelligence chatbot for giving inaccurate responses
and being difficult to use I think he dropped clippy as a pejorative it got spicy I think it was I think it was an aspen or Sun Valley uh it was an iconic moment uh but that history hasn't stopped Salesforce from including Microsoft in negotiations it's having with several Cloud providers ERS also
including Google and Oracle about a major new Cloud agreement um uh the deal is likely to be worth more than a billion dollars over several years said a Salesforce manager with direct knowledge of the deal and so uh here's the takeaway Salesforce is in talk with Google Microsoft and Oracle
for a big cloud deal because they need AI inference of course uh the deal could be worth more than a billion dollars over several years and they're currently on AWS but they're bidding it out according to this reporting but we'll see what Ben off has to say Salesforce
wants to rent the servers to run its customer management AI agents and other applications uh a sign of how new AI products are expanding salesforce's Computing needs so obviously Salesforce is stuffing AI in every single product they own they need inference and they need more servers so they're going to
the hyperscalers and they're bidding it out allegedly uh Salesforce already uses AWS in addition to Google cloud and its own data centers uh so we don't know who is the who's emerging as the fav to win he also didn't specify the size and scope of the agreement a Salesforce
spokesperson declined to comment but the agreement will be in the same range as salesforce's past agreements with AWS uh the negotiations with haven't previously been reported signal Salesforce has shift to public Cloud providers for more of its Computing needs they're getting
out of the data center building uh business more or less that that's that's the stick here uh Salesforce has told customers that eventually it will sell its applications through all major Cloud providers uh AWS didn't comment Oracle didn't comment Google didn't comment no
one's talking to the information comenting the information is commenting though the information is commenting and we'll go to Mark Benny off because as soon as this dropped he said the story in the information is incorrect In 2024 Salesforce explored a fourth deployment
option for our customers aide our existing choices proprietary data centers AWS and Alibaba Cloud uh last year we decided to extend our partnership with Google giving customers the option to deploy Salesforce customers 360 apps hyperforce agent force and data Cloud on Google's
platform in future Salesforce releases so he's coming out and saying hey I'm not rug in AWS I'm expanding I'm not switching yeah and I mean some of these quotes are just damning I mean he's saying clippy was a disaster co-pilot is a gimmick he's saying I think this co-pilot thing has been a
huge disaster for them so he's just publicly dragging so what's going on here it seems like it seems like the information is trying to you know sew little chaos over at over at Microsoft Frank Shaw says Mark has no idea what he's talking about this is 2025 right
after he says I think this co-pilot thing has been a disaster yep um and Charles uh who's over at Microsoft says uh one of the execs there working on co-pilot he says this is a big moment for Salesforce because CRM is not going to be the future for customers BR it's
going to be the Strategic imperative for customers I think that's why you see Salesforce taking Jabs at co-pilot because there's that pressure is very real and it's here so that was just uh this month in February uh 2025 back going back and forth not mincing words uh we love I mean we we
called that we need to get people in Tech need to get more you know fired up combative right more physical more physical altercations I want to see oh Mark benof and Scot Nella were leaving the club after an altercation the shirt ripped you know and honestly if you're a Senti one of the best things you can do
is go prison mode and take shots at a take shots at the big dog right go take shots at at Ben off yeah this is like the East Coast West Coast rap battle the lineup this year at dreamforce sucks sucks slop slop slop you should call it dream slop this wouldn't even be on the
you know you know the this wouldn't be on what what are some of like I haven't been to Coachella in so long I forgot about their feeder stages this wouldn't even hit the side stage at 12 noon on Friday at Coachella this doesn't even make you know this gar the D lab it's
not going on the DB do I don't even know what that is but I get it from cont you've never been to Coachella I've never been to Coachella wow I've been to Outside Lands and maybe a few others but I'm Festival guy sometime I'll have to talk about uh going to I've been to both
weekends of Coachella in the same year which which is Dusty Dusty Dusty that actually kicked off my uh original Fitness Arc oh okay that was the Catalyst that's good yeah yeah yeah yeah I think we I think we did mention that one point um and so uh yeah the information is uh sewing seeds of
descent between the hyperscalers I'd love to see it uh there's a hyperforce rewrite going on this is interesting Salesforce has already Rewritten the code for its applications databases and other operating systems to run on ABS services in a project called hyperforce
the aw ver the AWS version of salesforce's applications became available in 2020 Salesforce intends to make the same applications available on whichever cloud provider it picks in the current negotiations while Salesforce incurred a significant upfront expense in veloping hyperforce making it
available on another Cloud wouldn't be as costly since roughly 80 to 90% of its code built for AWS would run on other providers uh interesting so customers of Salesforce want to run on their own clouds Salesforce needs to do deals to make those clouds happy and get them uh
going and uh Benny off wants to keep everyone happy and wants to be able to play all of the different hyperscalers against each other without I mean you can do that if you're throwing billions of dollars around every single one of these hyperscalers has like a sales team
dedicated to Salesforce and they're trying to win said business but there's there's beir on beire but he has been negging Microsoft a lot and so that's got to make that negotiation harder and they also have the most competitive products so doing a deal to to what's
Microsoft's CRM product do they have I mean they have a they have a product for everything yeah I guess XL but I they they they so Microsoft Dynamics 365 is their I mean the big I think the big war is you know slack versus teams teams really crushed slack and I don't I don't
know how you would value slack as an independent company now post acquisition but Salesforce bought slack and uh whether or not that was a good deal for Salesforce kind of depends on teams execution and teams has become really popular because it's bundled with uh
like the Microsoft Office that goes into like so many different companies uh well speaking of software to help you run your business this show is of course supported by ramp our good buddies over at ramp time is money save both easy to use corporate cards bill payments
accounting and a whole lot more all in one I'm going to give you I'm going to give you an example so we launch pmf or die on Monday yep um and uh turns out running a 247 live stream with multiple camera feeds multiple audio feeds uh hundreds of you know concurrent viewers streaming on multiple platforms very
hard we had to tap in a guy named Sam Sheffer was at he was at Humane on Monday Humane gets acquired by HP he decides I'm not going to go into the AI printer business even though kind of we we've talked about this we want a better printer I'm excited for printers but uh
so I talked to Sam this morning at I was driving to work it was 530 a.m. yep and so he's coming online he's on the East Coast you know Tyler gold introduced me yep I'm like dude like you got to help us out like we we need to level this up like we we've got all these viewers like I think pmf or
die has product Market fit in the sense that like viewers are super excited about it Sam's like I'm down I got to go pick up like you know basically like my exit package but after that I'll go and so he rolled into the pmf for die stream today and and right as he was headed
over there I just made him a card on ramp and I was like if you need buy any supplies and so he gets the invite downloads the app adds it to Apple pay and he can now Buy products on our ramp account even though he's like a you know a contractor right so uh that level like
that that used to be like so annoying of like okay go and and and get the receipts and we'll reimburse you or we'll pay you so just so fantastic and uh ramp gets it done um let's go into let's go to the the timeline I want to do this Eric Stromberg post on boot
scaling I thought this was interesting you flagged this uh he writes a little screen shot essay uh Eric if you don't know him he was at bedrock with Jeff Lewis uh absolute dog of a capital allocator uh and Eric writes traditionally startups rais millions of dollars to start in hundreds to scale
today AI is giving everyone an army of agents to design engineer and build on their behalf perhaps AI will deliver so much leverage that Founders will raise only one round and be done profits will fund from there this is a comforting idea for seed VCS but not right if you
can reach 1 million of ARR in 90 days from an apartment why raise seed money instead I expect a different strategy to grow boot scaling Founders will bootstrap at the start leveraging near zero cost of experimentation they'll only raise after achieving product Market fit and building conviction in a
venture scale business at that point they'll use Capital to scale distribution yeah uh boot scaling allows Founders to avoid early dilution while later securing Capital to win versus well-funded competitors a prior generation has proven this model works and he Flags a few here uh at lassan
founded in 2002 they first raised money in 2010 they raised 60 million qualx founded in 2002 they first raised in 2012 for 70 million GitHub uh founded in 27 or 2007 first raised in 2012 one password found in 2005 they raised in 2019 Unity they ra they started in 20
2004 they didn't raise until 2009 and so a lot of these companies that build for a long time independently and then they start doing the growth rounds we skip those early seed series a rounds uh this shift will reape reshape the landscape of seed VC those stuck in existing
structures and clinging to Old assumptions will lose to those who adapt so break it down what do you think about that I thought that was so I mean the the obvious example here is pmf for die Blake came out built a few sort of these like AI native apps like generated so
much revenue that he's now building his fourth app in like two years which he's announcing on pmf or die tonight and uh he did not want to raise at all for this business he's like I have the cash I don't really need to spend that much money I have like the equ like just by
using cursor and some of these other AI tools I have the equivalent of like a bunch of developers that are on demand and so he's very ambitious with this next business like he wants to uh you know he's going to I'll let him announce it tonight but it could easily be a
multi-billion dollar company he will get to the point where you know he could say yep I'm going to raise like $20 million at a 200 post and sell 10% of the compan uh but it's very possible we're going to see a lot more of these businesses that just basically never raise right um and
uh that's not necessarily like the the good thing for VCS is there's still plenty of businesses it it actually frees up capital for VCS to invest in these sort of capital capex intensive businesses defense Tech is a good examp foundation model companies to the foundation model AI is bated it's like
the consumer app companies that are building AI companies need no money to start and then they need money to scale distribution and then the foundation model companies need a billion dollars up front to do the training run and then once they have it they've kind of
cornered the market and they have the commodity and then they can just sell it yeah and so I see more rounds happening where it's like kind of these YC style rounds where it's like hey we need 500k so we can so like if you're working somewhere and you want to quit your job
and still be able to have like decent health insurance maybe but it's really more so the the the you know these companies across the board are just getting way less you know Capital intensive and then simultaneously attention is is free now if you understand algorithmic feeds right like
pmf or Die Another good example we spent $3,000 producing the video it should have like a million views at this point right super high leverage and so yeah if you're a CBC how does that change your strategy do you do you need to do do you need to go and convince someone who
doesn't really need money just to get you like a little allocation and maybe you're the only person you're putting in you know maybe maybe the initial delution is 1% but you got your 1% like you're an angel in a larger round but there just is isn't that lead anymore or
or are you just uh out of the game and and focusing on growth growth fundraising yeah I mean VC's will still have the opport you know basically say sell 10% of your company to me because like I'm going to go to bat and help you win right with Distribution on X you know LinkedIn etc those are maybe
tougher Sals right now but that's why YC's product which is which is you have to figure out what product to make and you have to make your product but we are going to help you figure out how to make a company which is really the product of YC and also the pressure cooker and the
pressure C the value of of YC is you're sitting there listening to some generational entrepreneur Mark Zuckerberg's on stage and you look over and the guy next to he's coding on the laptop and you're like I should go ship a feature right now like people are
grinding and that and that pressure of seeing everyone else all your competition move super fast makes you want to move faster so uh yeah why y see has a bunch of interesting value ads that don't in the form of just the money uh it's fascinating well if you have a money if
you have a business that's throwing off a lot of cash uh highly recommend you pick up this beautiful car posted by Joe wisuki uh one of my favorite builds for a VIP uh a pts 911 St with um on the other side of America but he basically I think he sources the best Porsches amgs Bentley's in the entire
country and so he's constantly sharing these incredible examples um this is one of the best uh that silver on uh tan interior the sort of Heritage interior I think it's just fantastic so um need to get one of these in my garage at some point um but if you're in the market go
hit up Joe he's also got an Instagram account with like some of the best car content and he wears a suit when he's talking about these cars he he respects the cars and says I'm not just going to you know film this you know uh slop video I'm uh anyways so that's great okay well
let's go to this uh next post by Ash untapped Market uh no one has my current dream project opposite of friend.com pendant named foe llm text to speech computer yells at you adversarial Computing guys it's on the come up I mean this is sort of what friend yeah
friend is very adversary notari but it's like hey you know save save my life kind of thing uh that's hilarious and yanic chimes in he says POV you're smiling for a picture but unaware that they're debating how to build a computer that yells at you I love it that's so funny uh yeah very
very lots of fun opportunities building this I think I think that the the adversarial friend.com is probably friend.com I agree I agree with that but I I I think that there there is something beautiful in here like the story that we kicked this off with about the the the horrific humanoid robot as
opposed to the friendly azimo humanoid robot uh the the the the computer that yells at you that is a viral concept that will get a lot of downloads or installs or people testing it out it'll get you a lot of attention and then from there you can kind of figure out okay
what's the real product here what really has product Market fit and friend.com certainly did that with their Market entry uh let's talk about Apple uh this week they launched uh the iPhone 16e uh it's $599 this is a big jump up from the 429 SE Mark German has uh had
the scoop and then the breakdown uh here he says the it has an action button is in 128 256 and 52 gig options black and white color options it iPhone 14 and iPhone SE are discontinued uh pre-order start on February 21st 28th for release and the C1 Apple modem is official and
this was a big a big story uh although it was kind of buried Mark Herman says the C1 Apple modem which is a uh the cellular modem that actually connects to the cellular network normally these are made by broadcom I believe is a Monumental technical achievement because
there's a ton of intellectual property they're not just like hard to it's like it's as it's as complex as making like an Nvidia GPU apparently um and so he says a several billion dollar effort that has been in the works for seven years in the end it gets two sentences in the press release and 15 seconds in
the announcement video apple is clearly downplaying this intentionally Daniel goes what it do yeah be says why Andi says patent cases hinge on how significant a feature is in the whole injunction depends on novelty and criticality the more words the more to
hang in the inevitable Q QC litigation on and so uh Steve is saying hey and Steve sinowski is very sharp I think he's at andreon but he was uh I think at Microsoft for a long time and he understands this stuff really well and he was saying that basically hey they they built this modem it works
and it's going to be able to connect the phones to starlink do a whole bunch more stuff it's just retooling their supply chain gives them a huge advantage on on the supply side but they're going to get sued and so they can't make too big of a deal out of it because if they do uh the
the lawsuits are going to come for them that that's the thesis here at least what people are thinking and so uh there's another there's a little bit of extra context here C1 was birthed from Apple's 1 billion acquisition of Intel smartphone modem Biz in 2019 C1 is going
to give Apple more leverage in carrier negotiations because they said hey Verizon like we we can be independent we can use starlink we can use whatever um and will allow deeper device integration and better better battery life so you know they'll be able to have 100%
battery life right up until they release the new phone on the day yeah exactly exactly Apple silicon team is consistently underestimated so used to the landline mode now the landline Apple landline I like this one uh I actually would like an app charger made from Apple that's one of
those like stretchy landline type things you know so you can people used to walk around the house yeah HP Give me the give me the give me the printer the AI printer give me the AI landline uh these are the things I want here we got the polycom on this on the table uh but
let's move on to uh a promoted post from bezel uh you can shop over 22,000 luxury watches fully authenticated in-house by bez's team of experts a lot of people probably don't know this but when you buy a watch on bezel the person who's selling it doesn't just ship it to you
they actually ship it to bezel first and then people at bezel verify that you're getting a real watch I've been to the space it's a fortress and uh there's just guys nerding out all day long yeah uh and uh you know just making sure that the watch you actually get is legit and
they catch a shocking number of yeah there's so many Fakes fakes I was Googling for some watches and I just saw a uh uh like in Google sh Shing it was like you know uh pek Nautilus $300 and you click on it and it's like it's from like a knockoff website I'm like how is
this even like on Google it's crazy obviously goog clearly has not made an effort to catch near fake watches because if you look up yeah if you look up pek aquanut it'll pull up a some sketchy website yeah it pulls up these watches that are just objectively you know obviously not real
and uh Google's happy to put them in front of you and so uh when you buy a watch on bezel I'm actually going through this right now uh the seller shipped it to bezel they received the watch and I have the update they've started the authentication process uh and so it's very fun you get a little
Domino's Pizza Tracker and you get to see exactly where it is in that process which is very fun and I also wanted to go through this fun uh little post that they uh ripped explaining the perfect 3at collection say less they argue that the perfect watch collection is a steel
sports watch for the everyday Flex a dress watch for closing deals and a wild card because it's fun here's what they're going with and let us know in the comments what you think about this they recommend for the everyday uh Flex a Rolex Submariner Hulk reference
116610 LV which matches our new color color yeah you might see it in the corner we're using uh a beautiful is that a Kelly Green I don't I don't even know what that it's great green question uh uh it's built like a tank water resistant to 300 meters for all the diving you'll never do I need I need to
relax the next time I go back diving I actually scuba dive a lot uh and somehow it goes with everything even though it's bright green for the dress watch like can we figure out how to under you could do it if you had a rebreather set up scuba diving yeah in in a tu yeah
underwater pod this would be potentially viral uh the the dress watch they recommend the cardier tank Louie uh reference wgta 011 arguably the cardier to have the tank LC is pure old school Elegance uh it this is timeless sophistication at its finest perfect for
closing deals sipping negronis or just reminding people you have taste I love the cardier tank I think it's fantastic watch worn by Andy Warhol and Muhammad Ali and uh Jackie Kennedy and it's just a fantastic watch with a beautiful history and for the wild card they recommend the IWC Pilots watch
chronograph Top Gun uh big bold straight out of a fighter jet this Top Gun Chronos lightweight ceramic case laughs at scratches the military aesthetic means business and the flyback Chrono is just plain old cool and great option for hard tech de Tech founder you don't know
if you're going to end up in an Apache that day yep uh just a Fant pick up a uh an IWC Pilots watch chronograph Top Gun and so uh Jordy you're you're working on a watch collection what do you think is going to be next any any tank I actually need I need a Dr tank would be great I
still think jlc ultra thin would be really good yeah um I think uh there's lot of good op or or of of some sort or but anyways I think the 222 is the Vashon that you're going to wind up with that's that's the only one that I actually want sometimes in life you have Yeah you sort of justify you know
purchases that are adjacent to the thing that you actually want but you need to just no look in your heart and understand what it is you actually want and figure out a way to get that thing exactly uh well let's go to Zach he says the mission of Aura make it easier more
beautiful and more customizable to share your workouts with the world hundreds of millions of people use apps like Strava neiki run Club to track their workouts tens of millions use apps like Instagram Twitter and Tik Tok to share their workouts uh his goal is to start giving
creative tools so that second Behavior sharing uh becomes art form of its own and as a byproduct I believe if you make training more creative and public athletes want to train more so Zach is uh based in New York City operating under uh the the pmf or die mentality
right now working on Aura which is a new app um John already said it but it's basically think about um yeah a a workout app that makes these sort of beautiful Graphics so that you can share your progress a lot of running is a sort of like communal activity everybody sort
of pushing themselves independently and Zach has you know a million plus plus followers on Instagram wants to build a product for himself and them to just be able to share their their um training more and I'm super excited to see it uh I don't run much myself we should go over to New York and just go for a run
with Zach and just get absolutely smokes um but we're getting a treadmill in the cage for pmf or die and so we'll have to have Zach go on a Tesla app in there so love to see it excited to see Zach roll us out yeah so good luck to him as he builds this app we love to see it let's
go over to Andre and Horowitz Chris Dixon was on a podcast with their head of growth David George uh talking about what will happen in the world of AI just to the internet and just to websites which I thought was very interesting because everyone jumps to Terminator or
complete job loss uh Chris is thinking in the future but not so far in the future uh about something that seems like a very real possibility so he says what happens to the billions of websites if they aren't getting traffic uh AI isn't just disrupting search it's changing the internet's economic model
for decades websites provided platforms with content in exchange for traffic this was the Covenant as he puts it uh AI flips this content fuels its model but traffic doesn't always flow back so historically on the internet the beautiful thing is that if you had great
content the traffic would show up the Google search crawler would find you you would go viral on LinkedIn or Facebook yeah stumble upon Twitter used to link out those things have stopped and then the llms uh will just uh give people answers directly so as users turn to AI
for answers instead of the traditional search control is becoming increasingly concentrated in the hands of a few dominant systems he's worried about the future of the internet and what this shift means for creators to address this he asks what new incentive structures or
architectures should we be thinking about and so he's not saying hey we got to ban AI he's just saying that uh you know there needs to be a new deal for Content creators and what does that look like whether that's it uh whether that's a Content we talked about this like the
content licensing model from the llm like if you are really great at crafting recipes at a superhuman level you craft them and then yes you only get one hit from the open AI scraper and one hit from the anthropic scraper but that one hit is then you're basically on like a
YouTube style Creator fund where they split the profits with you and they're saying yeah we're taking your content we are training our model on it but when we when someone asked for this recipe we used 50% of yours and then 50% of someone else's and so yeah we're going to send you you know a couple cents for
every query that we turned over and there's this abstraction layer but we're still paying you somehow and that would definitely uh keep the economic model in place I'm sure Chris as the head of inuries and crypto and massive crypto investor former number one on the might
mest list uh has a bunch of ideas for how crypto can be involved in that uh he doesn't explicitly break that down in this clip but you know he's thinking about that as well what was your take yeah I'm I'm excited to see you know crypto is entering a new regulatory
regime right start starts with a bang a few days before David Sachs gets uh Into His official position as as crypto Zar uh we have presidential meme coins coming out and so this new Administration will uh seemingly be getting um you know trying to get in ative around uh the actual regulations
that have been in many ways forcing the cryptocurrency industry to orient around meme coins right if you can't invest in value because um oftentimes you know many of these tokens couldn't be tied to cash flow or anything like that so if that changes which you know we're all
sort of waiting around to see um there's going to be so many new um actual ways for uh companies that operate on chain to like generate Revenue outside of trading and so uh Andre and crypto has been making a bunch of bets like sort of betting that this will eventually happen
and uh I'm just excited to see like you know I I expect that um Chris Dixon is like actively working with Sachs and and many of the other people you know in the White House admin to try to figure out how to influence this policy to fully unlock crypto's potential right because
it's been handicapped for years and years and years by um the regulatory environment um and not not not allowing like the the the most exciting use cases to flourish yeah yeah I I always think it's interesting Chris's uh framing like he is uh somewhat an early entrepreneur
uh in like kind of post.com era started two companies sold them both has been deeply involved in like the early internet and these like weird like he I'm pretty sure he did the Oculus seed deal or like a very early Oculus deal he did some drone companies skyo uh he I I
I sat on a board with him for a number of years worked with him very closely and uh really enjoyed that and he also back Kickstarter and a bunch of like crazy like he's really close with Fred Wilson and the USV guys and so he's he sees the internet as something that's valuable by itself like to humanity and
he has a real reverence for internet communities a lot of his investing thesis early on was like find uh I think he had some quote like like what people do on the on the internet on the weekends will be your job in 5 years something like that and uh I thought
that was very interesting and so he's he's very uh driven to maintain uh what is great about the internet uh well anyway let's go to how startups are changing Anthony Pano says the real Flex is Raising as little money as possible for your startup and succeeding with the smallest team
necessary I thought that was an interesting post because are we in the business of flexing like does it matter does it matter if you build a massive business with 10,000 employees or 100 employees like uh I I I guess it's it's always impressive when you see a high Revenue per dollar
or Revenue per employee number but at the end of the day market cap is the only thing that matters really and like and like durable market cap and durable value and durable cash flow and how you get there like Amazon has an order of magnitude more employees than Google I'm
pretty sure yeah because Amazon employees people that do Pick and Pack I think the revenue per employee is always a fascinating metric to look at it's always it can be very impressive if you look at tether right I think they do like $8 million of net income per employee or something it's like
multiples of what that's crazy Black Rock does or these sort of more Legacy financial institutions and you see cursor with 30 employees you know multi-billion dollar valuation so I um I think it's awesome uh I I you know I I think that uh but but you know I think
pom is probably just like baiting people a little bit here um and Ely it shouldn't be what what you fixate on early it's how do we build a really massive durable company yeah uh many paths to success and it kind of depends on what kind of company you want to run like some people want to have the small
like David holes with mid Journey he hasn't raised a lot of money he hasn't hired that many people clearly he wants to run this lab and this product that's like very dedicated user based very profitable uh but he's not he's not like in this takeover the world like raise as
much money do the deal with Masa build the data center like immediately I think he's I think he's building what he wants and it's more about finding the Ika guy or like the life's work that aligns with you uh but anyway let's move on to wander find your happy place book a
wander with inspiring views Hotel grade amenities dream beds top tier cleaning in 247 coner service it's a vacation home but better head on over to wanderer.com uh they're given $400 off your spring trip with spring 400 and there's a beautiful photo of a wander in
Rockaway Beach Oregon I've never been there but that looks fantastic so crazy check it out like every single one of their homes looks like that we want so I really want to partner with wander for the for the you know if we do a season two of pmf for they have this private
island somewhere in Florida yeah you be absolutely perfect to um you know pick up the drawbridge lock them on the island if you want to leave you can you got to swim you know a few miles head on over to wander and and check it out if you're looking for your next vacation home while you're
traveling uh did you see this one from overfit quantitative strategies uh great meme account uh good watermark on this I don't know if we can pull this up here but says choose your Silicon Valley think boy Mark writes more manifestos than gender neutral communist undergrad
it's time to build but not in his backyard is a techto techno optimist he shills meme coins Brian in in injects his son's blood to stay eternally young GW uh lives in the woods and on a 12K income Sam San Francisco's rest Putin Andrew cumulative probabilties final boss yes and N no coffee no alcohol no
medication in the morning meditation in the morning do you enjoy life it's very I don't know I don't I don't even understand that Naval writes Facebook captions but for Millennial Tech Bros instead of Boomers mark his career at Oracle taught him that software can be a
more profitable racket Paul want to be in founder mode reading naval's reading list is the airport books Hall of Fame which is I feel like part of that is he recomends a book it probably goes into the airport because he actually does have a massive audience but who knows
it's very silly very very silly but you know you love to see some wo Jacks from the guys you know uh and uh and love guys you know and love and a lot a lot of good a lot of good content from these guys I don't know I think this is a fun silly little uh silly little post having
fun poking fun some of the Legends in Silicon Valley uh you go on D dark dorh dorh and you're drowning in e girls he says anyway uh let's go to Trey Stevens he is hosting an event in San Francisco if you're in there you should check it out uh he says a little over two years
ago Mary Wagner and I published an essay in Pirate wire's child entitled choose good quests that blew up way more than I was expecting I was also surprised that more than a few readers were able to read between the lines to see the theological underpinnings of the central
argument I'll be giving a talk hosted by acts 17 and Gary Tan on the evening of March 6th in San Francisco in which I'll draw out the explicit theological message and its implications on how we think about our quests in Tech invite Link in thread below should be fun and
so if you're in SF go check it out uh I think it's $50 to attend and uh some absolute killers in Silicon Valley attending this uh I talked to uh Trey's wife yesterday who is organizing the event and uh the lineup for the speaker series is fantastic and just the people
that will be in this room could probably put together a $5 billion round with a few Texs so uh good room to be in and uh fantastic topic yeah yeah it is a very it's a great post if you haven't read it read it uh the the the good Quest idea is uh trying to answer this question of
yeah what what should you do where where where do you fit in within the messy world of Silicon Valley is it an employee at a company that's uh working on something that you really think is extremely valuable is it founding a company whatever you you choose he kind of L out a framework for thinking about
that and it's a it's a rallying cry for for young for young folks in Silicon Valley and I I really enjoyed the piece so go check it out uh let's go over to guo R Rous I need to learn how to pronounce his name guo Ed verel we love him he says inherent to founder mode is
the courage to be disliked for a Founder The Mission customer and product reign supreme effective leadership is not about making everyone at your company happy or producing the average of everyone's opinion it's about doing what's right great post great post very inspiring we love GMO um yeah I mean
that really is the the distillation of founder mode and also going direct it's like this authenticity and not being afraid of cancellation or just negative P that's the that's the pressure of being a CEO you're trying to make uh your your team your customers happy your
team happy uh the media happy you know uh other shareholders whatever um you know Partners infrastructure providers like you're never going to make everybody happy and so he's saying don't try to make everybody happy try to try to do what's right you know generally
for the company and and uh you know usually uh it'll net out to um being what's right for for everybody else in the long run at least yeah and I love Jan from ramp chiming in here well said guo many people dislike me probably because I'm so founder mode uh because he's he's been posting uh day 99 of
asking ramp for a raise uh he's getting the Rays I I think once he gets to day 90 we need to get ramp to put him in the cage put him in a cage if he can live stream for 90 days and add a million of ARR to ramp then he gets his raise but I think the first 90 days of
asking for a raay were just the warm-up for him totally he's not grinding hard enough you're on noticed Jan good luck uh let's go to Andrew Ross sorin have you read too big to fail book or seen the movie it was adapted into a movie Doc yeah yeah Andrew sorin mass monster uh
noted noted mass monster wrote run at the Arnold yeah yeah yeah uh let's see it let's watch Andrew Ross soring get diced let's see him I want to see his traps eating his head get some Death Star delts I want to see him on some gear get some dball some anavar some test some try yeah Andrew come on the
show let's talk about your stack yeah let's get you too big to fail uh but you know Andrew Ros orin's a fantastic interviewer uh and the book is fantastic if you haven't read it uh it's a breakdown of what happened during the housing crisis the 2008 Global financial
crisis and he's been working on a follow-up book 1929 uh for the past eight years he's been working on a follow-up to his book too big to fail he's been it's written uh as what he thinks of it as a sequel a prequel uh a non-fiction character-driven behind the scenes
account of 1929 the year the most infamous market crash of all time happened uh it'll be out in OCT oober but you can pre-order it now I will definitely be uh reading that that sounds fascinating I know the Great Depression and I know about 1929 and a lot of the anecdotes I don't know the
character-driven story behind it I can't name the guy who lost it all or the person that made it through it's very abstract to me and so I'm sure this will be a fantastic read he's a great writer great reporter and uh you know go check it out if you're looking for your next
book um let's go to uh VC brags you want to check out this one throw this in leaked image of the latest Humane Inc product from HP printer division you put on the pin and it tells you the toner's low this would be helpful for us because our toner is low all the time okay
enough trash talk about printers printers are back uh this is important technology folks yeah we got a I I hope that they roll this out I mean it's actually it's actually smart for HP to say Hey you know a lot of these other companies I'm sure a bunch of the best people at Humane are already taking
offers from a number of great companies but still for Humane to add um the the Humane product while it didn't solve a critical need for consumers it was very cool Tech like the tech itself was great and so um I'm excited to uh see what they do maybe this was maybe this was
hp's way they they probably know at this point that we'd run on a Brother USA printer this is their way to kind of just like get on our radar and say hey why don't you bring your posts over to to Powerhouse HP printer will give you a pin that allows you to you know better
interact with your device I mean what is the bull case for the HP Humane acquisition I think there's probably two that I can think of off the top of my head maybe you can think of a few others um one is you know there might be some sort of industrial or B2B application
where you go and you give these pins to a Workforce where they're in a medical environment or industrial environment and they need to be handsfree and you sell these pins into this one Workforce and it's highly specifi highly specific and so I'm I don't know I'm imagining
like I pick up an Amazon package and then the the micro projector just projects exactly what I need to do with it onto the package I don't know something like that do we know that they actually got bought by the print like it wasn't actually no no no no no people
are just they got bought by HP yeah and HP is just known for printers now but they do make other stuff like it's Huer Packard it's like a big company yeah um but uh the other thing is that uh if they're doing you still make computers yeah of course and the other thing is
that they might be in an IBM type Arc where they're going to wind up doing more Consulting and actually have some good-looking desktop computers let's go um and and if I'm if I'm working with HP on some sort of project and you're saying I have two options on your staff one is the person who designed the
latest HP printer and the other person is the person who designed the Humane pen so I actually have I think the design language is better on the pin I have hp.com pulled up they have what do they have uh their printers which they highlight first so clearly important and they have
their PCS desktops and then they have monitors and accessories so it's totally possible that what Humane built is actually super relevant to their monitors their like um cameras mounted cameras right you could imagine a world where you just go like that and it like shuts your computer off and like Humane
was like focused on using gestures to control devices and so stuff like that it would be cool if I go like that to my app you know maybe I can maybe I can't but just being able to go like that turn off my computer you know clap turn it on all the stuff that Humane was kind of
working on yeah I heard some theory that they the the company was bought for 100 million and they might have had around 100 million left in the bank because the company kind of failed pretty quickly post launch and so it's possible that it was kind of like almost more like an
aqua hire and you just get a bunch of people that are you know uh surely they didn't they didn't solve the overall product in a way that was cohesive in a way that could actually gain traction but they clearly have great people who work on projectors great people who work
on batteries they have great people who work on all these different things and so you can deploy those people into the different arms of HP and it seems like it could be a good deal and one of the one of the Humane guys is working on pmf or die now which is great HP couldn't
lock him down that's why shutdowns are good sometimes because it frees up super talented people to just go work on new things yeah maybe uh maybe HP should uh start a live streaming division but too late they if you want to sponsor a live stream Where where guys code all day
long and work out shirtless and jeans or send some printers over yeah yeah it's great uh well speaking of gadgets uh these ones didn't fail Nat fredman says what's your favorite new Gadget and there's a couple interesting ones on here uh UniFi AI key is the top result
uh locally embeds your camera feeds not yet mind-blowing but that's a software update away uh and he and Nat Freeman says he got one of those and it's really promising Kyle Russell buddy M says Ste still the rayb band metas he got last summer so he's a Dau of those I guess or
regular driver of those uh we both kind of churned from them but I I think we're pretty uh optimistic about them as a product long term um and then uh there's some other people that chime in one guy says a dad bike the turn GSD S10 it has room for the kids in the back which is
kind of cool and it also has electric boost thought that was fun Matt mullenweg chimes in and says really digging the daylight Co like a Kindle meets iPad allow for lifestyle actually I'm an investor in daylight you said coice um we got to get one for the set it's basically mimics paper really well
the same feeling of using a Kindle but you can navigate the internet have a browser Etc Spencer Bratman says uh the things he uses uh daily are an ember mug have you ever seen those I have anre Ember mug oh you do yeah uh they have he has say airpod Max uh eight sleep of
course love it uh an aura frame which is kind of cool it's a picture frame that you can upload photos to a juicer Vision he uses the Vision Pro no way I'm surprised by that uh whoop pretty good for tracking sleep haven't seen that another daylight Co shout out this hackable e in watch is kind of
interesting the SQ FMI watchy not to use as a watch but to wear at night to detect movement past a certain hour and wake me up more naturally cheap easy to code so a little bit hacker stuff going on there but it was fun it was a good like little hey uh let's get some
Community engagement from that and uh you know I'm sure Nats cooking up the next idea for you know some sort of side project put some put some kid on it uh let's go to Nikita uh Nikita beer says ladies and gentlemen the King has been dethroned because grock AI is now the
number one app in the app store under free apps all apps and is one above CH is one above chat gbt and he attaches a meme uh with from a high school yearbook quote that says it is not enough that I should succeed others should fail and this is from Kevin Chang the guy uh one
of the one of the guys leading the charge at xai we really yeah no way real quote that's hilarious I had no idea that that was actually him that's so F and what I love about the screenshot deep deep seeks nowhere to be seen Yep they're probably thinking about I got to get on intro I gotta hire uh I gotta
hire Nikita we got to go number one again yeah I love it um and we got to get Nikita on the inside and so uh how uh there's a bunch of uh there's a bunch of back and forth here the App Store ranking doesn't mean anything and they're just pure and Nikita says wow major buzz kill man
uh so interesting to see obviously we've talked about how the Apple app charts are momentum driven uh so it's unclear if if grock usage really is higher than Chad GPT or getting close but certainly there's a lot of momentum they just launched grock 3 there's a lot big news
I'm 90% certain Nikita helps works on xai or advising as well that makes sense makes sense well let's go back to seed investing Delian has an interesting post here he says uh doing VC full-time is a bad set up for seed investing if you have a company you're working on anytime
you spend on VC you're trading against your life's work so you spend time only with the four to six companies a year that truly matter if full-time WTF do you fill your day with a lot of meetings probably uh what do you think uh uh this is another uh pitch for you know uh
moving away from full-time seed investing running around spring checks around Silicon Valley what do you think is it possible to do it full-time well uh you know I think that if you are a VC operating with little to no brand which is 99% of uh Venture Capital firms right
where they technically have a website and a brand but they're not being sought out by the generational Founders I think this works really well for Founders fund where when founders fund bids on a company they can bid lower sure than everyone else and the founder is still
like yes I want to work you know I just went through that with a company with one of my portfolio companies that I did um I did the preed and when they raising their series a they were even before they started the process being like whatever price Founders fund bids you know within
reason we're going to take it and they had other tier one offers right and so there's like a certain uh I think you know um you're on the inside uh so you'd be a little too conflicted to say this but Founders fund is in a unique position where I wouldn't recommend necessarily the part-time strategy to a
no-name CVC who's got $50 million to deploy it's like yeah you probably should be spending all your time trying to meet Founders that aren't coming to you yeah I think I I think the the other takeaway here is just that uh one of the ways to bootstrap a brand as a seed
stage investor is to build a great company because then all of a sudden you're meeting Founders they're coming to you for advice and just through the founder Network founder to founder conversations and then you can write seed checks it doesn't need to be full-time and then over time you can
kind of scale that up and take it more seriously and that's certainly been Dean's experience at vaa he's met everyone that's relevant in the space industry and seen all the deal flow there because even if you even if you don't even think of him as a as a VC
you're going to want to reach out to him just as a fellow a fellow founder in the category Advantage uh yeah big Advantage so helps when you're putting devices up into up into space space fact I mean there's a lot of advantages going on there um what's funny here is Joe
Morrison here chimes in says your best post are the ones where you're a little self-loathing and Dean's like what are you talking about like this this is actually like he's not g he's gassing himself up he's basically saying like I'm doing it perfectly go yeah yeah yeah and he's say like don't even try and
compete with me I love someone else comments I'll take the other sides the odds you'll find and lead the seed round of a generational company while working 60 plus hours a week operating are dramatically lower Delan just says look forward to comparing contrasting our
approaches at the end the decade uh do not do not try in dun cond Delian there's just been like uh it's been a graveyard on X this week of people that tried and got smoked uh it's very rough but yeah I mean when you're seed investor in ramp it's uh it's pretty pretty easy to drive
solid returns he's got a whole bunch of great seed stuff and he's like the main he he he does does a lot of seed stuff uh it's great well let's move on to Kim Kardashian this is crazy yeah narrative violation okay so uh skims has grown into an absolute Powerhouse closing in
on $1 billion in D Toc revenue and has raised $730 million most recently at a multi-billion dollar valuation uh Kim owns 5% of the company after raising so much money they recently did a partnership with Nike the business is on a tear but Daniel here asks absolutely wild to me I get it amazing and valuable
brand but is it worth it when you own almost none of it she owns $200 million so the question Jordy is uh is is it worth it to have $200 million what is $200 million worth I think it's worth $200 million yeah and so uh I don't know what's her opportunity cost is she really is she
really putting more than $200 million of effort into this project yeah I don't think so so I think absolutely it's worth it it's more it's more of this perception that people see skims as a proxy for Kim Kardashian's brand but the push back there is that if you if you
talk to skims customers they will say these products are just better than other products that I can get and it's at a point where you know you could argue that Kylie um Kylie Jenner's products people wouldn't care to use them as much if there wasn't her
Association totally Kim uh skims and Kim Kardashian I think it's different in that they make really good products she's non-operating she's sort of the face of the brand and it's going to net out like if you're going to make hundreds of millions of dollars for being the face of something that's
better than doing a bunch of brand deals for Nike and L and Alo and it's going to net out it's going to out fine but it's still the the idea that um you know there's been a lot of press recently around these Creator driven holding companies and this idea that um uh just
having a big audience will allow you to build a big company in an inexpensive way but Kim Kardashian basically has one of the largest single audiences and the most consumer influence of any person in history Y and she still needs to raise 730 m to achieve what maybe she didn't have to
but she's done that yep and um yeah it just goes to show that uh you know I I've I've talked to a bunch of Founders recently that that think oh I'm just going to work with this one influencer and it's G to you know dramatically change my business or I'm I I my co-founders got you know 200,000
followers and it doesn't mean anything because you tap that follow following pretty quick quickly very quickly yep um and so she is big enough to actually get Market entry um but if you run the numbers on the dilution here you know uh seed series a series B series C 20%
dilution rounds let's assume she got diluted maybe 75% I I don't even know but uh that means that she still only started out with 20% of the company yeah and I still think that's a phenomenal trade I don't think that's crazy because she's in a non-operating role and what
would it take for her to make $200 million in profit otherwise yeah I mean we got we learned a little bit from the ethereum max thing that I think she she gets paid about a million dollars per like oneoff brand deal like post or something like that or like partnership
and so you're talking about 200 of those there's only 200 days in the you know 200 business day 250 business days in the year like all of a sudden she can't do a post every day a million dollars a post certainly no no no certainly not and so even though she's like a huge
figure like this is a great way to monetize her audience it looks way better for her brand because it builds her brand as a co-founder as a business person it it it's more aligned she only needs to focus on the reputation in products of one company whereas if she's if she's advertising for different
brands what if one of them has a scandal what if one of them is making the product and it's low quality all of a sudden that roads hers she can just put all of her all of her eggs in one basket more or less obviously doing she had her I think it's a good strategy she had her
private Equity Firm that you know had a huge fundraising Target didn't come close to achieving it I think they made one investment in a like a hot sauce or like a some hot sauce company yep um but this goes to show that like maybe even the strategy of this Creator Le private
equ Equity Firm was not even that good of a strategy if if if if if a if her primary company had to still raise hundreds of millions of dollars then maybe maybe it's not enough like maybe it's not enough to be differentiated as a you know private Equity Firm yeah yeah very interesting
anyway let's move on to X we got some fundraising news Katy roof has a scoop about X they're thinking about a new financing round that would value it at $44 billion same as the take private price in 2022 Elon Musk has never done a d down round not about to start in 2025
so so this this uh earlier this week on the show we were talking about uh if you looked at x.com investors Washington Post would pull up Google like Gemini would pull up a summary lost all their money so and so lost 700 million seoa lost X you know 200 million etc etc and they didn't
never lose the money if they would have lost money if they would have sold it right so now they're going to be back up this is great for the employees x x had marked down their valuation internally so the employees were getting their options at2 billion so they just they're
going to get a nice pop out of this and um I'm sure that Elon will start to allow employees to sell you know do these sort of um yeah he's very good about lading up the valuation doing the secondary sales making sure everyone's taken care of like he is very very good
at that um and yeah I mean it's interesting because the media was very anti- Twitter acts saying it's not going to it's going to fall apart everyone's going to leave there's going to be no users all the advertisers are going to leave well we got data from ramp that uh
uh AR is AR kazian he's their Chief Economist and The Economist at ramp looked at the spend on corporate cars across all the ramp data showed that advertising on Ax is increasing so that was another bull signal then we got the leaked financials showing that they might have over a billion dollars in
ebah and so yeah you apply a 44x multiple on ebah for a growing tech company like that's not that crazy and then we had that great post from Lon shapira saying everyone was worried that X was not going to even stay online well now you click on X and in one of the new
tabs you have access to a uh Cutting Edge Frontier Model uh and there's just uh you know live streaming has been taking off' been doing really well there on pmf or die and all of my core Tech friends are still there like there's a lot of craziness and the algorithm
changes every week uh but it's still fun it's still the app that I open and for a lot of people that's what their experience is and I don't think it's going away and so I think elon's got it we are back we are back uh well speaking of PM for die I thought this was an interesting post from will at shouldn't
speak he says startups used to be two guys a laptop and a dream just one laptop yeah just one laptop so now he says now it's 50 Engineers $100 million in funding and a full-time DC lobbying strategy what happened gang and I just tagged pmf or die deep Tech happened
yeah deep Tech happened defense tech and and AI like regulatory recapture stuff happened and just the threat I mean honestly a lot of this happened from Lena KH it was like well maybe you do need a DC lobbying firm if you're plan is to sell your company at any point in
time yeah uh and there were just so many different things where there was now oh well if you're not playing in DC you're not in the big leagues maybe you need a government contract even if that government contract isn't going to drive the most profit or the most Revenue it's
going to make people take you more seriously kind of the paler narrative pulls over so there's a lot of different things that make sense and can justify 50 Engineers 100 million in funding full-time DC Lobby strategy but you can still just do the two guys two laptops and a dream strategy if you want and
pmfr die is a great example of that and we see examples of that on the timeline every single day yeah the next post uh from Santi gangas shots um if you can skip to that says today was definitely a day of product progress coded talk to users got Jacks time with friends more
users for his uh product Lebon Master pmf for die really helped you bring your aame and I love to see it we've seen a lot of people since uh pmf or die kicked off posting and just saying I'm locking in from home and just like putting this on because one thing is for certain if
you're building if you're solo building an app remotely y the biggest downside it's it can be a great lifestyle you you've done it with I've done it everybody you know many people go through phases where um they're just sort of building and uh being able to turn on pmf or die and just like feel
like you're a part of something and and have that motivation is awesome so yeah it's free to lock in it's free to outwork your peers lock in uh and we'd love to see it that's great uh well we have the razian uh post here that we should cover uh because he has the
actual real data on what's happening on a with advertisers he says advertisers were leaving X in January 2025 they came back in droves here's the latest from ramp last month 68% of advertisers increased their spending on X Twitter if you're surprised about X's latest
valuation you need to look at this chart and it's from ramp it says advertisers were leaving X in January 2025 they came back in droves and you can see the trend month over month now people are ramping up I'm certainly ramping up on X spend and I think a lot of Smart Companies are
because they realize that uh the AI is going to get better the targeting is going to get better the audience is going to get better uh everything is everything is getting better so there's a good uh opportunity and at the end of the day these advertising markets
they're just markets so if there's cheap CPM somewhere it's going to get sucked Up and hoovered Up by someone uh and so that's the nature of these things uh let's go to Zoomer Zoomer says SF man hogging the umbrella while his fold out is left out in the rain sad and yeah we need to bring back some
uh chivalry some uh Hospitality some man manners don't hog the umbrella uh should be CAU under an umbrella if your if your girlfriend wife is using a jacket to terrible look this this is a career ending uh you know picture potentially so hopefully the GU not identified get to fade into um but if
this is you you're on notice uh you gotta you got to have better umbrella etiquette for sure absolutely and better etiquette in general across across the internet across the real world hold the doors use the correct Forks use good manners don't swear what would your
mother say don't say the s word the r word the F word what about the c word I don't know if we should sensor we don't say that on the show okay uh but we need an alternative to that because I need to fill that in anyway we're going to AI shiffman wrecking yourself there we go
uh if you are building in any other industry then love or entertainment you are wrecking yourself you are building an abstract I don't know if I fully believe that it's great that that's what he's doing I think that's his life work but um I don't know that that's the only
option but you Eng friend new round at 500 million confirmed conf uh no I mean I think I think obi's like very convicted in what he's doing and I think it's I think I think what he's doing building in both love and entertainment in some ways right totally uh building a
a digital best friend is a good strategy I think there's a very real scenario in 10 years where a lot of people the average person is working less potentially than they are now we're we're already at a point where even though lots of people have jobs they're still working less than they were 30
years than they would have been 30 years ago because half their day is spent on at work is spent on Tik Tok right like imagine Jamie Diamond realizing realizing how much I'm sure I'm sure like they could see through the Wi-Fi somehow that like 20% of all of our bandwidth is going to like Tik Tok Tik
Tok or something like that and he's probably is Raging right but uh but yeah so so anyways we we'll see what happens but uh it's a good strategy to to a lot of Founders don't know what they're actually selling so if you're working on a consumer app are you selling you know
are you selling uh you know a love like something that's uh solved for loneliness are you selling entertainment you I think for us we talk about we are in the news and entertainment business right so like we're here to deliver the news we hope to do it in an entertaining
way there's other media Brands like Jason who's in the inspiration bus he's like focused on telling these massive stories and following you know these Trends and inspiring people yeah um but Jason if you want to throw in some uh hot takes and some jokes in the next uh
documentary we're available we're available we'll come spice it up spice just all of a sudden super serious interview with Elon and then we're just there like just you know chopping it up it'd be great anyway let's move on to Kip mock we said congratulations to Isaiah Taylor for raising the seed round
for uh his nuclear company uh and Kip has been a huge sport of the show we've had him on before but he shares an awesome picture uh and he says he's pleased to announce what I've been working on for the last year and looking forward to seeing this project through
in the Philippines so they signed uh coordinated research project with the Philippine nuclear Research Institute Isaiah went all over the world trying to find a hospitable government that would let him build a uh a nuclear reactor uh very quickly and efficiently and he
found one in the Philippines and everyone's excited for them to uh repatriate this technology once they get it up and running but uh nothing to put a little fire under the US governments uh behind uh than saying hey we're going to build it internationally if you don't
let us build it here and so you take this to the the uh to inl or to the what is it the IRC or uh nrdc the national uh nuclear reactor I don't know the guys who approve nuclear reactors in the United States uh and you show them hey we did it in in the Philippines let us
do it here it's a lot easier than saying hey we've never done it anywhere so I love that they're moving quickly I love that they're uh Globe trotting and uh getting stuff done so congrats to the uh to the Valar atomics team once again and Jordy chimes in says absolute Legend
making us all proud uh we got to we got to bring up more of those phrases some of those great phrases like Gunslinger uh sler Gunslinger is such a good one these are some guner guner for sure Gunslingers uh anyway uh we got a post from uh Colin Dunn I've talked to Colin
a couple times we actually have used uh his app visual electric to uh generate uh generate like assets for the show at various stages very cool product sort of takes a place of stock footage allows you to just very efficiently generate um you know uh images for various uses deck
marketing Etc uh he says figma should use their $1 billion breakup fee from Adobe to buy cursor could be their Instagram um near comments another friend of the show says how do you come up with this price uh I don't think that cursor would sell for anywhere close to yeah 1 billion uh considering how much a
you know their their growth right now and access to Capital but Colin would probably push back on that say and and say like figma actually has access to plenty of capital themselves they could probably there could probably be a price there's always a price right yeah and
people always forget with these mergers that if you like Instagram everyone says like oh they uh like they they they they sold out for a billion dollars and then uh Instagram wound up being worth like a hundred billion so they left a ton on the table and that's kind of but if you
get meta stock in the transaction then you see upside and if Facebook 10x is yeah it's like you sold for 10 billion because you can just hold well the other the other difference is Instagram had no Revenue yep and cursor has over nine figures of Reven is very different and
so you could imagine that the the multiple they would get on that Revenue with their current growth and how small the team is would potentially like there's a world where cursor would do a round in the next year valuing them at eight1 billion doll so um cool idea I'm
sure that Dylan would as as Dylan I'm sure is looked at a lot of deals like this right totally um so yeah yeah it's interesting but I I I do think something people miss is that idea of like of like viewing it more as a merger you get equity and the combined entity and if
the combined entity really has a chance to make a serious run at a hyperscaler or a really massive 100 billion plus uh you know Enterprise tech company that could be very very accretive for you even though you quote unquote sold yeah uh because you have stock in the new
entity uh and these and these all stock deals or like partially stock deals can be heavily incentivized towards future growth if you're bullish on the on the partnership and speaking of cursor we got Ben Lang saying from intern to co-founder of the fastest company ever to hit a 100 million in ARR Aman singer
a Sanger he's coding at cursor and just a few years ago he was an intern software engineering intern at you.com okay so Aman Great Name by the way yeah oh yeah nominative determinism right there he'll be definitely spending nights at the uh he followed me on X in
2021 while he was I know I know and so next time an intern follows you DM them immediately and say I want to lead your next round for sure uh that's that's a takeaway you do that a 100 times you might get the next cursor maybe make it all back maybe um uh should we close out with Zoomer
Zoomer second time on the show today this is some news from Google I haven't fully uh done a deep dive on this we'll have to dig into it anytime that there's these new AI announcements goog so bad at marketing it's it's actually it's it's brutal it's because like they they
did that they did that thing where they announced the the AI and they sped up the demo and so now they've like kind of broken trust and no one you need to validate all these things it's kind of unclear like how real is this but Google AI certainly wants you to believe it's real and we'll see uh today we
introduced an AI co- scientist system designed to go beyond deep research tools to Aid scientists in generating novel hypotheses and research strategies learn more including how to Jo join The Trusted tester program at Google um and so uh Zoomer says Google's AI agent
independently discovered a new leukemia drug that then successfully tested inv vitro at clinical concentrations a novel Li liver fibrosis drug targets and a bacterial cell level antibi antibiotic mechanisms it looks like the novel scientific discovery line has been
passed um and uh Zoomer then follows it up and says the dwares question of AI Insight might has just been solved with a Blackboard and a for Loop interesting so it's always hard to tell like you need the scientist to kind of weigh in on this and say like was this just brute
forcing was this really novel Discovery people are obviously you know very hyped up anytime AI does anything and oh we we we just crossed some touring tests we just crossed some new threshold a ASI is upon us uh kind of unclear how big this is whenever I see one of these I always
look to well did the market move you know what's GDP doing right but GDP is Maybe a lagging indicator but my question is okay so there's a massive breakthrough there's allegedly a massive breakthrough in novel scientific discovery right yeah what did the biotech stocks
do what would you expect them to do yeah and I watched this during when Google when Google at Deep Mind they solved the protein folding problem that was one of the hardest most intractable computationally complex problems figuring out how proteins fold very important to drug development uh it's
something that is uh is a cost center I guess in every drug development every farmer company uh Deep Mind solved the protein folding problem with Alpha fold the market didn't really move and what it turned out was that yes it's a really hard problem but uh we have machines
that do it and we have uh PhD students that can just kind of run the assays and they and they do the ex I think it's like x-ray crystallography or something like that uh to to to to run the the the human-based algorithm and it it wasn't a fundamental change in the structure of
the profitability of biotech companies and so the market didn't really move and so I haven't looked it up I don't really know but I'm I'm kind of waiting but sometimes these these announcements go out and it takes a while for the public markets to catch up yeah Trey also says
it's definitely difficult to in the chat he says it's definitely difficult to predict how this shakes out because the inv vitro part is quote unquote easy most of the failure happens after that y so a lot of the stuff comes out it's splashy but then how does it actually
roll out exactly so big questions we'll see obviously exciting and definitely like an important track to be working on uh and very very cool stuff and I'm sure that from an AI perspective this was a you know a state-of-the-art like reasoning agent a co-senior in the world at least at this point who
know well speaking of Science and Healthcare Innovation our very own Ben is probably coming out of surgery right now he has uh emergency wisdom teeth surgery had to get those removed it's got plenty of wisdom so we're not too worried about uh a lack thereof but Ben
was an absolute stud this week he was basically in pain as of like Tuesday and he just got worse and worse and worse still came into the office crushed it still grinded through it yep and uh we're and that's why we did not do a Don peran episode we didn't think it would
be fair to be sipping champagne without him but we did hit 16k on X so thank you to everyone that's followed us uh the growth has been outstanding we've been really happy to watch the show and as soon as Ben is back in the studio the Dom will float it will pop we already yeah it's right there next to you the
bottle's ready to go and so you can expect a Dom episode any day now and I'm sure that'll be one of more fun ones maybe we'll just do all timeline that day just rip r a bunch of hot old time sake I think so why not the takes flow no no you don't want to do a deep dive
on a Dom episode you want to just have fun well said anyway thanks for listening five stars on Apple podcast and Spotify uh check out all the sponsors in the description and we will see you tomorrow have a great rest of your day have a great for watching and listening we appreciate e