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Well, first of all, how are you?
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I mean, the days since the album came out, how has life changed?
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How does it affect the way you move or feel about things now that it's no longer in your position and it's kind of free?
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>> Um, it feels interesting.
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I mean, it's been a while, >> you know, since I've put out work and so it's adjusting to being back in the mix.
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It's like, whoa, whoa, whoa. >> Yeah.
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You know, the past two or three years I've been really enjoying doing whatever I wanted to do.
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>> And so now I'm back in it in rehearsals and it's I'm like, "Wow, I I miss before."
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[laughter] >> I miss my vacation, you know? >> Yeah.
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But that's totally natural to pine for the thing that gives you the most peace >> because to your point, even if you try to kind of monitor that influence that even the illusion of control when you get out in the world, >> that's where all the unexpected shit's going to happen.
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Stuff's just going to go wrong and blah blah blah. >> Yeah.
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And so that's that's kind of what I'm adjusting to is >> and it's always different, you know, the climate of what I'm putting music out in and what the music is and what the expectction what the expectation of music from me is, you know, it changes every time.
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And so >> yeah, I'm like I feel like I gave a huge amount of output, you know, on this one and it's like ah, you know, it feels crazy.
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But I I don't really know what's real yet until I go out and play it and see it and sing it together with people.
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That's when I know it's real.
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But everything online um I don't fully believe I feel like they're all robots. >> Yeah.
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It's >> like there's people behind them, but you know, I'm like it could be anyone, you know?
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>> Well, that's the problem with it, right?
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is that is that now we live in this world of what's real and what's not and it's sort of somewhere in the gray >> where it's like someone can step in there and say the most beautiful thing heartfelt message put paragraphs together and tell you how it's changed their life >> and we're now programmed to question
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whether or not that's even real to me that's actually one of the saddest things about it right scale and art and and and efficiency and effectiveness and money and all that whatever it's been since the beginning of time >> the one that really upsets me is erodess our faith in what's real and what's actually through. >> I know. I'm like, these could be lizards >> I know.
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I'm like, these could be lizards reviewing.
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>> You know, >> we could [laughter] be, by the way, and not quite know it. >> I know. I could be a lizard.
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>> I I kind of hope I am part lizard because that would explain why I have such fundamentally opposed ideals to so many people on this planet. >> Yeah, me too.
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Yeah, I might be a lizard, too.
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>> Okay, let's be lizards together.
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It sounds like you stretched out on this record and to your and you summed it up beautifully.
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gave yourself unprecedured space to be able to find the truth, >> what it is that you wanted to say.
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Um, let's just start to paint that picture a little bit and go back over kind of >> where that process began and how far you traveled to get to a point where you had something resembling finish.
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>> Well, the word finished is a spectrum.
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>> Resembling finish, >> right? >> Resembling.
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No, >> that's a good way to put it.
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Yeah, that was it's funny that that thing. >> Yeah.
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Well, it's never it's never it's never Can we just say that it's never done? Yeah, it's never done.
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>> Yeah, I'm always editing.
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And so, yeah, it was it took a second, you know, to get to saying, "Okay, all right, I'm I'm done.
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Hands [clears throat] off, you know, >> hands off."
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>> You know, if I want to play shows this year and be out in the summer, >> um it's got to come out. You got to stop.
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I also think people like to um spread the illusion, and I'm sure this is the case for some people, that it's painful to go round and round and around, but I think it's got to be the most fun thing to do. It's >> so fun.
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>> Why would you let it go? >> It's so fun.
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Like my studio space and like it's just so much laughter and jokes and just serious deep conversations and >> yeah, >> you know, you travel and be like, I want to record here now and then you just go. >> Yeah.
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>> And so it was pretty luxurious recording this album.
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Um but yeah, definitely got a lot more intense and like anal about so many things.
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And I think um what brings me pleasure, you know, out of music um has changed tremendously.
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I mean, not super tremendously, but >> what I'm focused on trying to achieve is a lot different than, >> you know, when we first met.
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>> Can we talk a little bit about that that growth or that that that that change? >> Yeah.
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>> Where you were when we met?
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We we met well properly in the studio away from all of this and we listened to your first album. >> The first one? Yeah. >> Yeah. With a group of people. >> Look at us now. >> I know.
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Still here, which is a blessing. >> That was like what? Let's see.
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The first record was 17 18 about 9 years. >> 9 years. >> Almost 10 years. >> You said it.
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I'm not I'm going to paraphrase it wrong, but um how you get enjoyment or how you get fulfillment out of making music is different now than how it was. That makes total sense.
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How's it different for you?
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>> Yeah, like little sweet things, you know, like uh I think if you listen to all these songs, there's like little sweet things throughout all the songs.
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I think I've always done that.
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Like a little sweet thing, for example, would be like for my first thing, the I know there's lots of love in your heart, but you gonna give it to Paul.
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That's the sweet thing, you know?
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So, I feel like I love planning sweet things all over the song.
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So, I think on this album there's a bunch of like small sweet things and there's like something that's like really sad and then something really funny, >> but also too I think >> to go back to the question is um Sonics. Sonics.
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I I fell in love with Robin within this process >> and I feel like she's a sonic god. >> Mhm. >> You know. >> Mhm.
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>> Um >> yeah, soundscapes are amazing.
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Just like textures, the textural experience of music like I'm super big on.
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Um so there could be songs, you know, they could be good songs, but I'm like it's it's a texture in there or a guitar tone.
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I really I can't listen to it.
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Well, it sounds, you know, if you if you're talking about Robin and I hear it on this record, she sits in her process and in her music, it's not um separate like painting.
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It's like she's got to sit in the painting and >> one she came in and we played her music in here.
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It was live on radio and I turned it up and she and she was so happy to be in the center of the of the song.
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>> She was like, "Oh my god, it's all around me." Like you could see her.
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That's how she lives and breathes the music is not cerebral.
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It's pure just like >> Yeah. And you can tell.
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And so, uh, I'm kind of late to the Robin Train, you know, it was really recent. >> You're right on time. >> Thank you.
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But, um, my friend Luca, who worked on the album, and she works on, um, Luca and Alvivera is like Addison Ray's producers.
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>> And so, when I fell in love with the song, um, Aquamarine, you know, I was like, who are these? I need to find these.
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And so uh my ANR reached out and we beca we became good friends but we she was over one night and um we were just going back and forth being music nerds like switching songs back and forth.
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You know this song, you know this song, you know this song as me and my nerdy friends do >> and um yeah she had play with every heartbeat and I was sitting there like just trying to understand it.
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just trying to understand it. We were both I mean she's known the song and she's like still trying to wrap her head around the production and the songwriting and >> I was like wow this is >> so strange you know just this >> combination of sounds and words and
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>> yeah I remember one night I was listening to it and I was crying you know I cried so hard I was just like what the and so I was off Instagram at this point and so I logged back into my account to like message Robin hey can you message me or call me when you get a chance? I just cried [clears throat]
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I just cried [clears throat] >> and I just need to understand like what h like what were you on, you know, like what happened?
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>> How did how did you get here? Like this shit's crazy.
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>> And she got back and Yeah. >> You guys had a chat. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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We're we're we're an ongoing text. >> That's beautiful.
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>> Like wanting to do something together and hang out one day.
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But yeah, >> she so appreciate >> she's Gemini, too. Shout out. >> She's Gemini.
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Uh she so appreciated that.
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I'm not to speak on her behalf, but who wouldn't appreciate that kind of message.
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I mean, when you make music, especially Robin, one of the things she unlocked in pop music in the best way.
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There's before and afters, right?
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There's before and afters, you know, there's definitely a before Robin and after Robin as far as the way we all consider what's possible.
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Yeah, >> for for me at least, and I think what you tapped into that night was that she takes the um >> the the sadness, >> pure sadness, >> the blessing of sadness, right?
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>> And she >> puts it on the dance floor and it makes you move to it and embrace it. >> Yeah.
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It's not like cookie cutter like you know movies where you're watching a sad movie and it's like something sad going on and then like some pianos or strings come in.
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>> Stop pressing my buttons.
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Stop pressing my buttons, man. Totally.
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>> And so I like the sadness that kind of creeps in through some you wouldn't expect.
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I'm like, "Whoa, whoa, whoa.
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What is happening to me?"
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>> And it's like it doesn't really, you can't really tell. >> Yeah.
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>> You know, it's just kind of like >> it was a tone or it was like one word that was said here >> or like, you know, it could be a tap of a sound or like a camera texture and I'm like, "Whoa, something happened." >> Justin does that.
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Justin Vernon does that, >> right? >> Do that for sure. >> Yeah.
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And that song did that to me.
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And so I feel like that's something I wanted to practice and and try that out.
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And so yeah, there's lines that are devastating, >> you know, to me when I'm hearing it and I'm like, >> you know, I made this music and I'm still hurt by it, you know, when I'm listening to it.
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I'm like, h >> like I don't want to listen to this right now.
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[laughter] Um, it's a very like >> I think you could listen to a good amount of it with your friends, but I think some of it's very like by yourself music, you know, >> like you might feel a little weird on the dance floor if this came on, you know?
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Like it hits, but it's like it's for you.
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>> It's really beautiful to hear you in this space though and be that open because it's obviously always been in you and you can't turn that on or off.
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Life will bring that out of you. It's true.
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And I think I've always written about things that were happening to me, you know, um, from the very beginning, you know, they were just like little cutesy teenage, hey, you're cute. Can I see you songs?
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And then now it's like, oh, I'm sitting with real feelings.
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But it's still kind of the same process.
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It's just like [snorts] a lot more um, you know, I'm grown now, Zane.
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You know, I'm a big boy now.
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>> Were you an introspective kid? I was.
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Yeah, I'm big on like pattern recognition.
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>> Can you explain for the people that don't know what that means?
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>> Um, if you see something happen that happens multiple times, you take note of it and then you can kind of like, okay, scientifically, if this happens this time, then >> um the result will be this.
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And so, >> oh, interesting thing.
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Are you obsessivempulsive? >> What is that? >> OCD. Do you have OCD? >> I don't think so. >> I have OCD.
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That's that sounds like a tool >> to sort of manage OCD as well because >> Yeah.
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It's a way to be in control. That's right.
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I definitely do have >> to a degree about a lot of things. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
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And then you realize that when something all the big ones happen throughout your life like heartache >> Yeah.
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loss and like you know having people like the like big big trust issues like big mistrust moments in your life. >> Yeah.
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>> Those are the big kind of reminders that like the control is just like what control? >> Yeah.
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It's like the control is actually me.
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>> You know like my exhausting >> my my sword is actually you know hurting me. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
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That is the interesting thing about OCD and love our relationship you know.
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Well, the thing about love in that environment often, at least for me, is um we try to protect it to such a degree that it's exhausting.
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Like we're so terrified of not having it that it's like I think a lot of songs to some degree, whether they openly acknowledge that it's a wiring thing or it's a compulsion of sorts, dive into that subject matter of like >> Yeah.
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>> I can't lose this, >> right? >> Hugging it to death. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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And I think love is a lot more It's like simpler but also slippy slipperier. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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[laughter] >> Um and so yeah, I like I like always kind of writing about it in in kind of funnier ways.
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Um and also just like opening up different conversations about how to talk about it.
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Um >> and also too I feel like love is also like it's like a spam word too.
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like it's like a spam word too. Like there's been so many times we were in the studio it's like ah I love ah that's corny no switch the word you know it's like spam is >> it's funny because I was thinking about the last conversation we had around Gemini rights
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>> and you were saying that you had a lot of music and a lot of arrangements and and kind of the the architecture of the record and then you had to wait for the words to come and then once you had there was things like a line or a moment or or a phrase in a song and then it just it just all flowed out of you. Yeah. Yeah.
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>> Did that happen this time around as well or did was the writing more consist?
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>> It was a similar thing. Yeah.
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I mean, some words came earlier, but yeah, for the most part, just fragments of ideas and then um in the fourth quarter, it's just kind of verses are coming here left and right. I'm like, "Oh, okay."
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And then I'm like, "Oh, I see. I see what's going on."
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>> What was the song or the lyric or the sentiment or even the feeling that that really unlocked that for you this time?
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It was a bunch of different moments of them.
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I mean, I think like nice shoes was kind of >> like a kind of a manifesto of like how I was speak about things, you know, like when I put that out last year, it's like, oh, this is a good, you know, kind of teaser >> to how I'm going to be talking about myself.
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You know, it's just kind of like splatter.
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But there's there's there's things, you know, planted in there. Um, yeah.
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And then also like the intro I've had probably for the longest time >> and yeah, writing that was like super sad, [snorts] >> you know, it was really sad.
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Um, yeah, it was a bunch of different moments that just kept revealing things to me.
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Um but yeah, I just stayed present.
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>> I can imagine that was really important for you, especially given that um Gemini writes kind of changed things at the time.
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I don't know if it changed things permanently or if >> life has never been the same in lots of good ways and lots of challenging ways, but at the time it felt like it was changing things in real time. >> Yeah.
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and that there was some challenging times for you in that trying to figure out how you felt about Bad Habit, about this new flush of excitement around your music.
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>> Talk a little bit about that in hindsight now with some perspective and sort of what was going on when that unexpected thing happens that you don't you don't change, you don't compromise your values or your art. >> Yeah.
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>> But everyone decides that this is great.
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>> Change happens with everything, you know, that I've ever put out. Mhm.
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>> Um, by the end of every album process, I look around and like everything has changed.
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I think >> the Gemini Rights one was more visible for everyone else.
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>> Um, to see that change.
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>> Um, but yeah, for me, I mean, I think I'm still processing it.
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I mean, even in relation um to this album, you know, seeing how it changed how people are listening to this the first time they hear it, you know, I think there's a lot more of a >> reference point to my name.
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Um, [clears throat] with it being Gemini Writes, you know, and I'm like I've been I'm like, you know, nine years in, >> you know, that's not where I started.
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Um, but there's like, you know, I be seeing stuff and there's huge discourse and I'm like, I kind of love that. >> Yeah.
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>> You know, like everyone's kind of like finding theirelves, you know, in this world or in the Steve world of like, "No, he's like this. No, he's like this.
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No, he really wants to do this.
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No, he's really like this."
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You know, I'm like, >> I don't even know what, you know what I'm saying?
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Like, I'm figuring out every single day.
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And so it's been interesting to see kind of like what people expect of me or what they think I should be doing.
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>> I feel like maybe you're more prepared for that now because what happened a few years ago?
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>> It felt like your audience changed quickly.
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Did it feel like your audience changed?
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Not in terms of personality or expectation, but definitely scale, age, what they wanted from you at that moment in time.
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You know, it's it's like you're on a set path and then through no control of your own, through no it's like no, you got to go down this road for a while, >> right? Yeah.
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I mean, you know, >> it's a beautiful thing to play with, >> you know.
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I think when it first happened, you know, all the all these kids cuz I think before, you know, um when I first went and did my solo music, it was like a mix.
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It was like teens and then it was like really, you know, collegey vibe and then it was like kids, you know, Gemini Rice is like open me up to like real kids being on my I'm like, y'all are rowdy as [laughter] And at first I was like, whoa, whoa, whoa.
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It's like, you know, this like a bunch of my little cousins are here and I'm like, y'all [laughter] are so annoying.
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>> But um I actually learned to kick it with them and love it.
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love them and learn the lang their language and how they see things and how they view things while also like kind of teaching them how to be in this space with >> Yeah, it's a beautiful mutual thing.
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I can imagine it really helped you let go of the kind of perception or at least the idea of how you wanted to be perceived cuz you can't control that, right? >> It's so true.
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And yeah, like yeah, less serious as well, you know?
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They taught me how to just be like kind of fluid with it. Like, all right.
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Like, I'm up to date on all the trolls and everything.
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Now, [laughter] >> you sound like you're online.
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Like, you're pretty online.
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>> I'm pretty online for better or worse.
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But I'm trying to get off.
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>> I'm trying to get off again.
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Well, cuz I was offline when I was writing and then now that I'm promoting the album, it's like >> you're back on.
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>> Kind of got to be on, >> but I'm trying to get off cuz I know it's not healthy for this thing in my in my in my skull.
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>> What's your relationship like with that thing in your skull?
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like what kind of conversations do you have with your with your own kind of mind and your brain?
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Like I said, I'm OCD, so I I have to constantly um let my brain >> Yeah. >> have its way. >> Totally.
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>> Because if I try to control it or shut it down, it will attack. >> Right. >> So, is it restless?
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that you can you be at pace?
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>> I think I'm constantly learning about it.
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You know, some days are easier than others.
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And it also depends on like, you know, what I have coming up and like what I have to do >> and you know, if I'm like over stimulated or if I'm like super busy and I'm like, okay, try to find like let's breathe.
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You know, like the other day I woke up super like overwhelmed. And so I'm like, okay.
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>> I call my uh fairy godmother and I'm like, all right, it's time.
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because you know she's always been like you should meditate.
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I'm like that's corny as Like I'm not you know I [snorts] think the world of it like the people that do it I'm like that's not me you know [laughter] but I'm like it's an actual tool you know it's not a marketing thing like it has been marketed a certain way you know.
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>> Yeah it's the worst thing that ever happened to wellness was wellness. >> Yeah. Yeah.
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>> When it was just wellness before it was wellness. It was awesome.
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Then it became wellness and now it's like I can't with wellness but like >> no thanks.
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You guys could keep that. [laughter] It's true.
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It's like everything gets marketed to to, you know, to the detriment.
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But to your point, it's it's of value. >> Yeah.
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So now I'm like trying to learn how to do that, you know, while I'm in this phase of figuring things out and um >> um adjusting to where I've ended up now or where this is going to where I'm going to end up, >> you know, by the end of this album process.
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So I'm just like [sighs] >> strapped in for the ride.
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But um no, you know, I'm not on any of those anti-dopressants or any of those things. >> Yeah.
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>> But I definitely thought about it on Monday, >> but that's why, you know, I'm a meditator.
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I don't want to do drugs, >> you know.
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I love hearing the the sonic.
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I mean, you talked about sound design and creating sonici environments with this album. >> It's beautiful.
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You know, leaning into, you know, um the sound of it for a second.
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The guitar plays a wonderful role in this film, but it's not the lead >> Mhm.
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>> It's not the lead character. >> Yeah. I love synthesizers. >> Yeah.
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>> That's just where my heart was going. That's where it took me. >> Yeah.
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Because the opening note is so hard. >> It's so insane. >> Which I love.
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It's just like, hey, just in case you thought I was going to break out, [clears throat] you know, the gentle, you know, the you know, get the guitar out and put it through a clean DI and just let's go.
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It's like, no, let's hit you with a saw.
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Yeah, that was uh that was uh the matriarch, the Moog matriarch, >> and I found that sound and I was like, >> it's so nasty. >> It's so nasty.
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Like, [snorts] ah, >> yeah, >> that's what I want. >> Yeah. [laughter] >> Yeah.
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>> Um, but now I tried I have a lot of songs that I started on electric guitar, but it just wasn't speaking to my soul. >> Interesting.
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And I wanted to ask you about your relationship with the guitar when things like that are happening because it's obviously an extension of your spirit >> and it helps you communicate lots of things you wouldn't be able to in this environment. >> Yeah.
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>> So, >> but it changed on this record. >> Yeah.
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I mean, there's a lot more acoustic guitar. >> That's true. >> Yeah.
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And so, I loved acoustic guitar, you know, listen I was listening to a lot of Lobby Cry.
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Is that am I saying that right?
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Lobby Frey and like Bill Withers.
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And I love their relationship to the acoustic.
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>> Well, Bill played it like a drummer.
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I feel >> that's what I'm saying.
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And so, you know, show you me is like that's carrying there's no drum.
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Just carrying that rhythm, >> you know. >> Yeah.
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I love the acoustic way more.
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It was like I felt closer to it.
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Um I also think too I was focused on a lot of just melodies, you know?
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um just getting getting my melodies in a in a place and it felt like on electric guitar.
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It was like I was fighting with it like my voice and the guitar were like >> I couldn't use both things at the same time for some reason. I don't know. It's just what happened.
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>> But on acoustic it was so much clarity um and how I could sing with it and we worked together and different synth things.
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It was like I was working it was working together with my voice.
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>> I can also imagine the acoustic guitar being a far more easy instrument to travel with allowed you the space to be able to write with it because I I find trying to write on an electric without amplification or being on the road or somewhere is like it's not grabbing me the way an acoustic will let will attach itself to your mood and your feeling, you know? >> Yeah, it's true. And yeah, I don't know.
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>> Did you write a lot of songs when you were traveling?
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Did you travel much in between these records? >> A a good amount. Yeah.
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>> Can you quick talk a little bit about where you went and without going into detail, but just like some of the places that kind of ultimately ended up, you know, sparking music?
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>> It's really just Paris.
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I didn't write in a bunch of places.
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>> It's just LA and Paris.
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>> A lot of people I know in the arts have spent quite a considerable amount of time in Paris. >> Yeah.
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They got some energy there.
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I don't know what's going on, but it's great.
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>> How does it how does it affect you if if you're a product of whatever environment you're in? Who is Stephen Paris?
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>> He's chill as [laughter] Um, no. I don't know.
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I had like a sense of clarity out there that was just different than here, you know?
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I think it's as simple as walking to and from the studios like that's something I don't have to think about driving to the studio or with time. >> Yeah. you know.
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Um, and so they were just little things, you know, and I I think also too, like the ability to like look at humans, like I love looking at people.
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>> I was going to say also, do you think it's partly because you're not naturally tapped into the conversations around you? >> Just slightly.
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>> I feel that way sometimes I'm in places like Seoul in Korea where I don't really have any >> Yeah. fly on the wall thing.
25:40
>> I've got no part to play in any conversation because I'm really not I'm not there's nothing to ease drop.
25:44
There's nothing to to to observe.
25:44
So I feel very >> That's true.
25:47
>> at peace in a way in that. >> That is true. Yeah. >> Stimulation.
25:51
>> I did I did enjoy that. Um and yeah.
25:51
So cuz you know uh I'm from California and stuff. >> Oh we know.
25:57
[laughter] >> And but so the opport the opportunities to like go and like look at people who are like kind of different backgrounds and different classes and stuff.
26:04
It's kind of limited, you know, like let's see like the movie theater >> and you know, maybe just the movie or the mall.
26:14
I think it's kind of mixed, >> but you know, it's pretty segregated.
26:16
I hate to say that about California.
26:19
I love >> LA and California, but it is pretty >> You love LA, >> you know.
26:25
So, um, but I think in places like New York and like Paris, >> um, you know, I like the mixup of all types of people.
26:32
Like I love seeing like a like old lady and like a you know just like a young dude in like a Nike tech and they're talking about something.
26:42
I don't know what the hell and they're not related >> but they're talking about something.
26:48
>> Seeing human connection happen in like different types or different forms is like my favorite thing. It just makes me smile.
26:54
So >> yeah, >> I really appreciate that.
26:56
Um and so that was something I would see in Paris and even places like London too.
26:59
I'd just be like, "Wow, how do those people know each other?"
27:02
Well, you're describing naturally anxious environments that absorb people's energy, which LA, as you know, doesn't do.
27:07
LA leaves you with >> No. Yeah.
27:09
You got to, you know, figure it out.
27:11
>> You got to figure it out on your own. Primarily inside.
27:12
Getting outside is hard in LA.
27:14
Even though the weather brings you out, the nature brings you out, but boy does that keep you in. >> Yeah.
27:19
I'm like, uh, what can I where can I go out?
27:21
And it's like free, >> you know?
27:26
>> Paris, I just walk out. I just walk out. I'm walking around.
27:28
There's so much to look at, you know? I'm just walking.
27:33
>> Recently, you know, my last trip I was biking. >> That was crazy. >> That was awesome. >> Yeah. No, it's freedom.
27:39
>> But I don't do like that out here. >> That's freedom. >> I'll be in the car. >> Yeah.
27:42
No, something beautiful about being in a city on two wheels, man.
27:43
It's something really amazing about it.
27:45
Um, you know, there are some returning friends in this record.
27:48
I mean, Fush obviously I I mean, we touched on this on the last record and and what kind of chemistry the two of you have and how natural it is.
27:56
Um, how do you push each other like on this record?
27:59
So it doesn't just I mean you want to be comfortable but at the same time you don't want to lean into old habits. >> Absolutely.
28:04
I mean that was a huge theme of this process was just you know keep going. Uh that's cool. What else?
28:16
>> You know it was a lot of that you know.
28:19
Um [clears throat] and so we were all pushing each other to just write the best stuff you know.
28:26
What was the song if you can think of one or even a lyric that where you really knew that you had gone somewhere new >> and that you were pushing yourself?
28:36
>> It was the uh the show you me >> the had to cry river just to find the fish in the sea.
28:42
Could have been a better way but it's sufficient to me.
28:46
Hard to smile cuz I had to you know comes after that.
28:49
But when we were doing that, I was like, >> "Oh," you know, there was a satisfaction from like laughter and then trying it cuz I would be like, "Let's try it."
29:01
You know, that's what I'm going to do.
29:02
Let's just let's just lay it and see what happens.
29:04
>> And then you sit with it and I'm like, >> "I'm not tired of it.
29:07
I kind you know, like I like it."
29:09
And then I play it for a few people and they laugh but they're not like annoyed or like uh I didn't like that.
29:17
You know, like uh I hate that I laughed.
29:18
They're like, "Oh, I'm enjoying this."
29:19
And I'm like, "Okay, I think it's cool."
29:22
>> And even the um I'm a big baby second on Big Titties.
29:25
Like, you know, I was playing Mortal Kombat >> with the beat on in the back.
29:30
>> And then [clears throat] I'm just [snorts] playing whooping Matt's ass, by the way.
29:33
And uh [laughter] >> you can tell the internet back, baby.
29:37
It's It's the real discourse going on right now. Gaming discourse.
29:40
>> I think that night I got up to like 15 brutalities or something crazy.
29:42
But anyways, um I had just said it.
29:44
I'm a big baby so I own big titties.
29:47
And then Dave, Matt, and I were in the room and then we paused for like 9 seconds.
29:51
And then we all just started busting out laughing, you know, [laughter] and I was like, "Shit, I kind of like that."
29:58
And then I put the controller down and said, "Let's try it."
30:01
And I went in the booth and I laid it and then that whole verse just came to me like, >> you know, so I would just kind of go where the words took me, you know?
30:08
where the words took me, you know? I don't really I think if this album taught me anything is like you know going back to OCD you know I couldn't have OCD in this writing space >> you know you have to just I have to just grab it when I could get it >> you know
30:25
>> cuz when I would try and say okay this is going to happen today I'm going to write exactly like this today >> or this song is going to be written exactly like this >> it'd be like it's whack bro you can't let a song like BB go or other these songs show if you're going to second guess them. Anyway, I mean there's,
30:40
Anyway, I mean there's, >> you know, these songs are about your life, but um they are there are universal themes here that people can attach themselves to. >> Absolutely.
30:50
>> And you know, there is um this kind of sense of yearning or an unrequited, unfinalized, unfinished, unended situation which keeps recuring throughout this record.
31:00
>> It sounds like it's tormenting you and you're not entirely upset about it.
31:02
Like it's that's that's a feeling. >> Yeah. for now. >> For now. >> For now.
31:10
>> But it definitely is a thread throughout the record.
31:12
This idea of sort of um being frustrated at your feelings. >> Yeah. >> Is that fair? >> Yeah. Yeah, they are.
31:19
They were pretty frustrating.
31:21
I think it's like the fact that I'm still feeling them is frustrating, you know?
31:24
Like I think I'm like >> after how long?
31:27
>> A futurist, >> you know?
31:29
>> I mean, it it varies from different situations, but you know, the longest situation that probably inspired me was like 6 years ago. >> It's brutal.
31:37
And so I'm like I'm such a futurist, you know, like how could I how could I let this thing how can I miss this processing this?
31:43
Like why is it hitting me now?
31:45
And like so I'm like pissed, you know, like uh I'm over this. I want to be over this. Like leave me alone. >> Yeah.
31:51
>> And so I'm writing from that place, but also was like it was inspiring. >> Yeah. Yeah.
31:55
>> You know, cuz I think it's also things that, you know, I never talked about too.
32:01
So, it was cool to like finally admit to certain things and just be like, you know, this this hurts, but like, you know, it feels like >> just what I got to do to grow.
32:10
And >> cuz you're all grow cuz you're growing up, Steve. >> I know. >> You're growing up. >> I know. It sucks.
32:19
>> It was so easy back then when it was just like, you know. >> I know.
32:22
It's iPhone in a dream, man.
32:25
>> Playground was just like good times, man. Find the window down. Let's roll. I know. Yeah, that was so fun. Yeah.
32:32
All those songs had long ass pauses in between the verse. >> They did.
32:35
[laughter] So much musicality in there.
32:38
And it's funny cuz we all thought that you were just this really confident musician who knew how to lean into arrangement, but you were just running out of lyrics, >> bro. Yeah.
32:44
I was just on I was just smoking too much weed, bro. That's all it was.
32:48
I thought it was Prince, you know. Good times. Good times. >> You dabbled.
32:55
[laughter] >> It was great. Yeah. >> Yeah.
33:00
>> Um, >> you got to be kind to those records, man.
33:02
They serve a purpose in life. >> I do.
33:03
And you know what's so funny?
33:03
I think like, and this is why I don't believe anything that people say when it when new work comes out.
33:09
Cuz I think with every album, you know, it's like, oh man, nope.
33:15
>> He He's trying something new. He sucks. Bloom.
33:17
And then, you know, now two albums later, it's like that was the best album he ever did.
33:23
>> We knew on the first record. >> Yeah. Who you Who do you have?
33:26
>> Well, you talked about Prince and things like that.
33:27
You could hear certain things into that. Right. Right.
33:30
I thought you meant on um the title track. >> No first album. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Very true.
33:37
[snorts] But yeah, so I'm just going to, you know, give it some time and but there's a lot of, you know, beautiful things that I'm seeing and people are saying really nice things.
33:47
>> So you stay online for a little bit longer while it's nice. >> Yeah.
33:49
You know, >> you know, it's hard, but man, while the compliments keep coming in, I'll give it a little more time.
33:53
Uh, you know, you just said you listen to a lot of music and obviously absorb and figure out how you want to apply through your own filter. So, you are a music fan. >> Yeah, I love music.
34:04
>> What are you listening to?
34:04
Let's keep it really basic right now. >> Yeah. And I'm even buying it. >> Listen to my album. >> Well, obviously.
34:08
And I'm really glad you >> It was genuinely the CD popped in on the way here.
34:13
I was just like, "Wow, >> I love that. >> So good.
34:15
>> That now that is common.
34:15
Not every artist, most artists won't listen to their music once it's done cuz they're exhausted by >> I know. You know what? Usually that. >> Yeah.
34:23
Usually all the other records by the time it's packaged. >> Yeah. >> Forget about it.
34:27
But this one I really like.
34:30
I describe it like if I was a chef, you know. >> Yeah.
34:33
>> I'd be in the front of my restaurant mouth full. Come on in. Oh. [laughter] Oh yeah. Get order this. It's so good. Get that, you know. >> It's so good. [laughter] It's so good.
34:43
Chef, we're running out of ingredients. Keep eating it.
34:46
>> You know, food all on my damn shirt. You know, come get this.
34:49
Y'all got to, you know, >> you're doing the infomercial for this album right here.
34:53
It's like, this album is so good. I stand by it.
34:55
I listen to it every morning, every afternoon, and every evening. It's a great record.
35:00
Understandably, >> man, I love it.
35:02
>> And I wonder if part of that, and you tell me, is because of the surprising nature of it because you let the the words come out so naturally and let the music take shape naturally that it that you can listen to it in a fresh way >> kind of. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
35:14
writing outside of myself, you know, and just being like, you know, I don't know.
35:18
It's interesting working with the universe and stuff like that.
35:24
>> Can I ask you a personal question about from a sort of growth point of view?
35:25
Um, do you or have you ever done therapy?
35:29
>> Yeah, I've done therapy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
35:32
Because I feel like this there's songs on here which are would be a gateway to that or an extension of that that you know. >> Yeah. Yeah.
35:39
It's it's that thing, you know, getting better and stuff. Yeah.
35:45
>> [laughter] >> I'm always afraid of like getting too healthy because I'm like I'm going to I'm going to be so boring next time.
35:51
I'm going be like I meditated, >> you [laughter] know. We don't have that. >> I'm so healthy. I don't smoke anymore.
35:59
>> My job today >> I don't do drugs anymore.
36:01
>> My job today is not here to present you as this like poster child for wellness and post.
36:07
>> Yeah, I'm scared of getting boring.
36:09
>> Let's go the other way then.
36:09
When was the last time you got really turned like truly up? >> Thursday night.
36:13
The day the night the album came out. >> You got 10.
36:16
>> Cut water [laughter] >> You only need one. [laughter] >> Yeah. Um, yeah.
36:23
I celebrated all weekend. I'm still recovering. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
36:29
But yeah, I try to balance it all, you know.
36:32
I don't want to lose my like my like pizzazz, you know. >> You could, Steve.
36:36
You could never [laughter] lose your pizzazz.
36:40
No, cuz what if I came in?
36:42
>> See, >> I I'd respond accordingly. I'd respond accordingly.
36:46
But no, I I'll take you as you come. [laughter] >> So, okay.
36:49
Aside from the growth and aside from the areas, what part of young Steve will you never let go of?
36:54
And and it could be the chish, most immature, most unreasonable sides of your personality as you as you reach self self-awareness levels.
37:02
What parts are just naturally you that you think your friends have to truly put up with?
37:08
[laughter] Like where are you at your worst?
37:11
>> At my worst I'm probably writing the best bars you ever heard.
37:13
Like damn this dude is in his feelings.
37:16
But he's he's he's coming with that though.
37:22
>> But no, I mean the parts of Young Steve, I think the parts that are like really just kind of like hilarious, you know? I've been a troll.
37:28
You know, you can ask Matt, Sid, any of the internet.
37:34
>> You know, I've been like this and I've been very curious.
37:35
Um, but yeah, I know when to insert the joke, you know?
37:39
I know when to be serious and I know when to be like I know when like there's like two seconds have gone and someone needs to say something like funny or deep, but I know >> how to like kind of >> just okay, let's just >> Yeah. Yeah. >> chill now. >> Yeah. >> Um, >> the situation. >> Yeah.
38:00
And yeah, I think the part that's just like really curious about music or whatever it is I'm doing.
38:06
>> Are there other curiosities in your life aside from music?
38:08
Are there things that you're trying to learn or replace yourself after at the moment apart from meditation? >> Always. Yeah.
38:12
I mean, I think certain design things and um stages.
38:17
I mean, there's they're all music related.
38:21
>> But would you intern somewhere like that?
38:22
Like would you go and like you know >> I would Yeah.
38:24
I always say when I'm washed up I'm going to go to school.
38:28
>> You could do it without being washed up. automatic. >> You can No, you can.
38:31
[laughter] No, no, not at all. Not at all.
38:33
>> You can do that without No, a lot of people go back to school when something ends.
38:36
That's kind of a pretty default position to go back and re-educate yourself. >> Totally. Yeah.
38:40
I'm too intensely in music and learn in thiscape right now.
38:44
But I do plan on going to school for, >> you know, I just want to know how to do things with my hands.
38:48
You know, my father was a carpenter >> and so I kind of want to learn, you know, the trade of of the world and [clears throat] carpentry and design and all that fun stuff. >> That'll be super fun.
39:03
>> You know, you um you do touch on him on the record and it's it's it's obviously that's about as personal and a journey as you can go on is figuring that that relationship out over the rest of your life. >> Yeah.
39:13
to raise him in conversation and talk about his skill set, the thing that he applied himself to in life. >> Yeah.
39:20
>> You know, how important is a song >> in helping you to cross the into the next threshold of acceptance and wanting to know about the people in your life that >> didn't play the role that you wish they had. You know what I mean? >> Um, yeah. I don't know.
39:38
I'm still figuring that out.
39:41
I think um yeah it definitely helps to just say that on record.
39:46
I don't know in what ways it helps.
39:48
I mean I am going to the Philippines for the first time. >> So shout out. Was it La La Lest?
39:52
I'm going to the Philippines.
39:55
And so >> are you going to allow yourself some space to absorb that aside from the show or you just going to try and get in and get out? >> I'm going to try to. Yeah.
40:03
>> Um >> but um yeah, I don't know.
40:04
I don't know in what ways it's helping me yet. >> Yeah.
40:09
>> Um >> yeah, [clears throat] >> cuz Yeah.
40:10
I think when you lose someone so early, you know, you learn.
40:12
Well, one, I think it gave me a curiosity for what is that.
40:17
And also too, it's like um I have to rely on stories that people tell me.
40:25
So, I know like little pins of his personality or things that he did. >> Yeah.
40:30
>> You know, but you know, I don't I won't hear from him, you know. >> Yeah.
40:34
>> And so, you know, my mother I know that she says he was a psychic. >> Mhm.
40:40
Um, and he had like magical powers. That's what she says. >> That's amazing.
40:45
>> And she says, "I I remind um I remind her of him >> um and my mannerisms and stuff."
40:51
She said he was obsessed with the way that his clothes fit him >> um which, you know, [laughter] uh but yeah, there's things that I'm like, "Okay, through stories I can kind of piece things together, but there's some things that, you know, >> I won't know." Yeah.
41:08
you know, it could be something that I'm doing cuz you know, we all we all got genes, you know, that we like or we don't like.
41:17
>> The nature nurture thing is real. >> Yeah.
41:19
And so I'm like, if I'm doing something, I'm like, "What the?"
41:20
And I'm like, "Oh, this could be that."
41:22
Or, you know, is this my mom?
41:24
You know, but >> the worst is when it happens physically.
41:29
>> Like sometimes I'll catch myself walking in that shop mirror and I'll be like, >> "Oh my god." >> Yeah. >> I'm my father. >> Right. Right.
41:40
>> You know, like, and I'm not mad at that.
41:41
Like, I love my dad, but it's like I don't want to walk like him. >> Yeah. Exactly. Like, get off me.
41:47
[laughter] >> Get away from me. I'm me.
41:50
>> You're You get away from me.
41:50
You had your body already. It's my body now.
41:54
[laughter] >> That sounds like a movie that's been made 10 times and will no doubt be made again in the next two years cuz we're in a loop. >> Yeah, exactly.
42:02
That's uh that kind of bums me out a little bit actually is how exhausted we are creatively I feel as a species. How is that statement? Does that make sense? >> Absolutely.
42:13
>> I'm like are we really remaking this?
42:13
I feel like we just remade this three three years ago. >> Yeah, man. Yeah.
42:17
[clears throat] That's why it took me so long to write this cuz I'm like okay what am I coming with that is new?
42:24
You know we got to come new cuz everybody rinsing the same sound, same subjects. What are we doing? What are we doing? >> Come on. >> Push ourselves. >> Let's push it.
42:35
>> Yeah, we we we're excited that you and Matt and Sid have shown up again.
42:39
I >> We going to push it. >> I know.
42:43
And it's funny cuz I I I went back a while.
42:45
I kind of it crossed my feed our conversation on Gemini rights and I watched a couple of clips and um the one about the internet and I was so I was so scared.
42:55
And I was like, "So, uh, I look, I I respect what you're doing as a solo artist, and I feel sometimes we shouldn't even bring these things up, but and I'm like, what the was I so scared of?
43:04
Like, you guys have been friends the entire time just doing whatever you want to go do.
43:08
There wasn't anything acrimonious about it."
43:10
So, >> well, I mean, there's like five It's 5 v one, so I understand how that could be, >> you know, it's five of us, bro. >> I know. I know. I know.
43:17
>> Like, you're chill because it's one of us, but imagine it was four more of me.
43:21
You might be pretty nervous.
43:21
Well, I just it's it's nerve-wracking because like you know you for the most part have gone off and done your thing and then but then you do kind of like oh but this thing is magical.
43:30
So the magic the magic is real and you guys are conjuring again and that's beautiful. >> Yeah.
43:36
>> Um >> putting all your out on the same day though >> with three of you. >> Yeah.
43:42
>> Was that conscious or did it just happen that way? >> It just happened.
43:44
I mean it happened and then it became conscious and then it was like oh let's just do this and it was kind of like internet day like fam. Yeah. >> And that was dope.
43:52
And then it's like boom, like internet's coming next year.
43:56
>> So that Okay, so there you go.
43:56
So that immediately sets a precedent for what's going to occur after you guys have gotten these things out of your system and moved it through this current process, you know? >> Yeah.
44:06
And it was also like I don't know, it's it's it's dope to do things like in in community um or share an experience with everyone.
44:13
It's like Barb and [laughter] like that was dope, you know?
44:19
And so, um, same just with my bandmates, you know? >> Yeah.
44:24
>> So, >> have you guys been getting together and figuring stuff out or is it all just an an idea right now? >> Yeah. Yeah.
44:29
I mean, it it definitely is an interesting process now that we're all grown and soloist.
44:35
>> And so, we have like we'll have like three days every two months or four, you know, so it's like >> a lot more limited.
44:42
So, in that in that little time we have, you know, we really got to get it done. >> That's good.
44:48
But um yeah, it's very grown, you know.
44:52
But yeah, all the other music we were just together like all the time, you know, so it's a different process right now. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah.
44:59
>> Um it must be really nice to know that there's so much enthusiasm and excitement around it though because you can never be absolutely certain.
45:03
I mean, everyone's doing their own thing. >> Yeah. Yeah, it is true. It is true. It'll be good.
45:10
Um, before we say goodbye, you know, just to focus on the present moment.
45:15
Um, and some of the people who have shown up on this on this album.
45:19
Um, >> you know, I love I love Pure Color.
45:20
I love the song you did with Erica.
45:22
Um, I love the kind of and I'm just going to be really overt with it cuz I'm a huge fan of both, but I love the kind of massive attacky feel of it and like kind of like mezzanine vibe.
45:33
>> Yeah, Tricky was Tricky was present in my world.
45:36
Do you know the song like poems? >> Of course. >> Yeah. Trick is ridiculous.
45:44
[laughter] >> Um, but getting Erica on the record must have been beautiful.
45:47
And obviously that's a lovely moment where once again, you know, the idea of who you've become through the through her music and how that's altered your identity then is reflected back on her and all of a sudden she's drawn to you and there you are on the record.
45:59
I mean, I just thought it would be dope to recontextualize Erica, you know, um >> cuz it just blew my mind that she doesn't exist in that space already. >> Like what?
46:14
>> Like it's so fitting, you know?
46:16
>> And so I'm like, I'm going to do it, you know, getting Erica Badu on a trip up song.
46:21
Like, are you kidding me? >> Yeah.
46:22
cuz her energy is so otherworldly and so in that kind of distant reverb that exists in that space >> in that like monotone like like whatever you know it was so cool.
46:36
Um but yeah we got to be on each other's records.
46:38
I don't know if I'm supposed to say that. >> Thank you.
46:42
And uh and you know Scissor said a beautiful thing.
46:45
I guess we're going to find out.
46:46
And uh and Scissor said a beautiful thing about the mutual inspiration behind um matching and meeting each other in a room as well, which is always nice.
46:53
It's one thing when someone shows up to do great work.
46:57
It's another thing when they tell you that you're actually helping them do great work in the process. >> Yeah.
47:03
>> Which I thought was really generous and cool, but with a little more detail. What was that day like?
47:06
Cuz it sounds like it was really profound.
47:08
>> We had a we had a solid two weeks together.
47:13
>> Was it supposed to be that or did it just keep going? >> No, it just happened.
47:14
You know, that's how sessions be sometimes.
47:16
You know, you just pull up, you make stuff, and they're like, "See you tomorrow."
47:20
I'm like, "Okay, yeah, fine."
47:21
And then you go the next day, and then they're like, "All right, see you tomorrow."
47:27
[laughter] And like, so it was, "See you tomorrow for about two weeks."
47:29
And then I was like, "All right, I got to get back to my album."
47:32
But it was super inspiring, too, for me to watch her and her freedom, you know, with >> with beats and she was just so fluid with it and just like, >> the way she attacks an arrangement is just like so unique. her is way more free.
47:46
Like me, I I'm like more I'm waiting on these things.
47:48
And with her, she was like just so Oh, it wasn't overly thought, but it was super intentional as if was as it was.
47:59
And I was like, damn, she's a pro.
48:01
I'm I'm like I'm working on getting there.
48:02
You know, I'm so slow, but it was awesome to watch her and and her process.
48:08
>> How much music did you guys make over that two weeks, do you think? >> A lot.
48:13
I mean, she's got a lot of the tracks.
48:13
I mean, I think I've only heard about four or five things.
48:17
Um, but I don't know what she's done. >> That's cool.
48:22
>> You know, >> that's beautiful.
48:23
>> But yeah, it's exciting.
48:23
I got to get back over there, finish that music up.
48:28
[snorts] But, um, >> yeah, and um, oh, also I want to shout out Alice Smith >> on the feeling.
48:35
I thought that was really cool and I'm producing for her as well. >> Oh, so, okay.
48:40
this is what I want to talk to you again.
48:41
Last time we spoke, I think I asked you what else you got going on outside your music, and you very quickly said nothing.
48:48
>> I mean, [laughter] producing is still a part of my music. >> No, I understand. I understand. I understand.
48:53
But and it was a brilliant moment.
48:54
But um but you are a really great producer and coowwriter.
48:58
I mean, you've proven that >> and it is now a fact.
49:03
And so, yeah, working with Ellis Smith and being open to that with the internet coming back, you're your own producers.
49:10
Will you produce this music yourselves as a band or would you like to? Yeah, you will. Yeah, >> it's all of us. >> Yeah. >> Amazing. >> Yeah.
49:18
I'm waiting to stop being like a superstar so I can just produce more.
49:25
[snorts] So, when this album's over, I want to just disappear and just be a super producer cuz I haven't got my super producer moment yet.
49:32
Well, you know, I think that to your point, you know, too much of a good thing.
49:36
I think I think that it's it's hard to do that whilst you're in demand elsewhere. >> It's so true.
49:41
Like I'm I'm like, "Ah, okay.
49:43
Let me let me finish this."
49:43
And then I'm like, "All right, let's go."
49:46
>> Are you ready to do shows? >> I'm getting there. I'm getting there. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
49:52
The band is learning the music as we speak right now. >> Beautiful.
49:54
Well, that is a perfect way for us to wrap this up because why would we ever get in the way of that?
49:59
>> Um, come see me in Asia. >> Yeah.
50:02
But we I would love to come see you somewhere else outside of America, too.
50:05
Just >> going to be my first shows.
50:08
>> I love this recurring uh experience of getting to find out where you stand in life and hearing it through the music and then just the generosity you always bring to our conversations, man. Appreciate you. >> Thanks for having me. I love the history. >> Yeah, same.