[Applause] [Music] [Applause] [Music] conversations with Tyler is produced by the mercada center at George Mason University Bridging the Gap between academic ideas and real world problems learn more at marcus.org and for more conversations including videos
transcripts and upcoming dates visit conversations withth tyler.com [Music] before you begin one thing let me express my admiration for him I'm a strange communist like Marx who said that one can learn more from a conservative like Balzak then from all progressives about economy I think that
our only true Partners the true leftists today are modest intelligent honest Skeptics conservat this morning he provided the best I'm grateful for it the best definition of myself he told me that he considers me a moderate conservative communist my gratitude to you thank you I would like
to pursue this theme thank you for your remarks the assigned topic was why I am still a communist I think in fact what you argued was why I am no longer a communist and you can be thought of as favoring a kind of social democracy with more effort directed at climate change
but before we get to psychoanalyzing you let me start with a simple factual question so you you cite China as the biggest success story of Communism but is it so successful it has right now the per capita income pretty much exactly equal to Mexico not so impressive if you
look at capitalist Taiwan it has the per capita income of France single-payer health insurance gay marriage it's a complete liberal democracy life there is very nice furthermore the last 30 years the air in Taiwan has become much cleaner and the air in China has become
much sturdier so why isn't China the failure Taiwan the success and yes it's a vote for capitalism not communism yeah you're already asking me a question okay yes question okay okay okay no no no first uh but if you compare what what China 50 years ago the difference is still absolutely shocking
look at shankai Beijing today and so on second point you know uh forget about per capita compare prices and so on and you will see that today's China that today's China the standard of living of middle classes at least in the developed part you know numbers at this
level don't tell a lot but at one point I agree with you that uh this in the long term this whatever we call it Chinese authoritarian capitalism or whatever we call it will not work I think and China has put over a million people in concentration camps their
labor force is already shrinking rate of growth is falling so you are in fact a moderate right Pro Taiwan communist yes no but okay no can I briefly answer you very honestly I see all your points I I agree with them and but my point is this one nonetheless and now I want to ask
you if I may a question yes okay I know we exaggerate and I'm well aware of I emphasized it do you remember how easy to fall into this Fascination by catastrophic Prospect do you remember no you are not old enough I am some of you must around 30 40 years ago most of
Europe especially Germany I remember very well no was obsessed by V and d and I remember the cover of spegel they demonstrated said exactly with Statistics that 40 50 years after that time today Europe will be without forests I'm sad to tell you but according to some statistics today there
are more forests in the world than at any point in last 100 years so I'm over aware of this fascination of catastrophe but nonetheless I think and you can deny it I will not uh when we communist take over you will go to gulak but for different reasons know will you go you know what I why I'm
glad to talk with him that you know in today's politically correct climate in typical Western academic institution you cannot talk like that you know no but seriously but I nonetheless see these threats and I could go on indefinitely like digital control and so on things
are serious there the extent to which we are manipulated already and so on ecology immigration and did you notice I'm not a simple humanitarian there I just don't share this this simple optimism open on hearts and what all the poor will move to Europe and whatever so
how very simple question I will try to cut myself short how these three domains that I outlined I think at least in the long term they need a more Radical Something will have to happen do you probably you don't agree do you see them as serious threats are you still a
fukuyama in the sense of we just make a system function a little bit better I'm skeptical there the threats you mention I all see as serious but ecology keep in mind the Communist nations were the worst Po and still are surveillance the worst culprits China right not a fully
communist Nation but nonetheless surveillance is worst in China if you're worried about genetic engineering and the reshaping of mankind biggest offender is likely to be China no I even know it may surprise you the exact data I was shown by a friend in saur of
shankai already clinics no no no okay sorry I will not lose too much time this will interest you I met years ago in Frank book fair one high guy from Chinese Academy of Sciences and he gave me printed in English the short program programmatic note and it says it shocked
me literally the goal of biogenetic in China is to regulate physical and psychic health of the Chinese Nation they're directly doing it what I only don't like is don't just evoke China as this ultimate horror we are basically doing the same I claim let me now get to my theory of you now there's an old
interview I read with you and I found this passage quite striking quote and sympathetic I should add the movies I watch are often old stalinist movies the songs that I listen to are old communist songs dot dot dot I fully admit it but it is also my pleasure now also you're
from Slovenia you're from the Balkans that part of the world has not developed ideally there are far-right parties in many places there's been War the Balkans are still a disint appointment so there's a negative outlook on the world you're from and I view your attachment
to the Communist label as a kind of nostalgia like the old stalinist songs which you don't actually think are better than Beethoven but it's some like the old East German women who love their spral pickles the old cars the Tres and the Communist label for you it's like your
spral pickles the gorki uh it's like the trabi and why not just cast it aside and live free why be so tied to your own Nostalgia that's my question okay my counter question is then that obviously what I read today around are nonetheless I'm more of a pessimist you see we are
coming back to this basic dilemma but you need this Nostalgia right why not Free Yourself by jettisoning The Nostalgia and take the next step if I were your therapist this is what I would be asking you to do okay let's go on what I don't want to lose your time but what really fascinates me
in stalinism is uh how if you look at it closely how fascinated stalinism was by America for example do you know that that's why I like Soviet Cinemas that the absolute model of Soviet Cinema was Hollywood they had they had desperate plans in the 30 to build on crime there
own version of Hollywood how they imitated Hollywood and so on and so on I claim that you you know even explicitly when Stalin was asked around 1930 his definition of a bolik he said the one which combines Russian dedication to a sacred cause with American pragmatism
efficiency and so on and so on what what uh uh but you know behind this what you call Nostalgia is for me nonetheless it's much more traumatic if you want it I am the first to admit and that's my maybe we share the opinion here that's my criticism of one of the criticism of
frankfur school as I always repeat look at habas at his work he begin publishing in early 50s read all his work and I don't think you will even guess for from his published text that there is something like communism and East Germany Frankfurt School in a strange way almost totally I know there
is Marcus's book Soviet Marxism but it's very specific and you know what makes it so strange the central thesis of late frankurt school is a dialectic of Enlightenment horrors of 20th century fascism stalinism are not simply regressions to some dark past they
are deployment of a certain total Ian whatever we call them Potentials in the project of modernity itself okay but isn't stalinism a much more traumatic example of this than fascism with fascism things are relatively simple I think it's a model of conservative Revolution and so on and so on but
bolism which tried to do a radical emancipation and it turned into a traumatic night I think even today we don't have a good theory of stalinism that's what bothers me not any return to it I will give you as a proof that it's not in this sense Nostalgia I'll give
you another example I have such a memory I always tell my friends jokes about life in the Army I served in the mid 70s in Yugoslav Army but you know like it was a nightmare I know but what fascinated me was I never did I learn so much about ideology and my politically
correct friend don't for example I wonder if some of you know you don't have here anymore military service in Norway but basically on the one hand Yugoslav Army was as all armies probably absolutely homophobic you were gay you were beaten by fellow soldiers every night discreetly before being thrown out
but at the same time crucial absolutely crucial the entire life was so totally penetrated by homosexual inuendos and so on in my unit we didn't say good morning we say I'll smoke your prick thanks and after I finish with yours so you this this all these paradoxes what fascinates
me about ideology is and this where communism interests me is how this is why Yugoslavia which was relatively liberal communism interests me do you know that in Yugoslavia it wasn't just we have our own ideology self-managed socialism I mean this literally Slovenia
was a small country we knew everybody else nenat sounding like more Nostalgia to me army Tales we talked about smoking the prick right okay but but but the lesson I learned there I don't care if you call it Nostalgia the lesson I and I will tell you where I see real Nostalgia
today the lesson for me is how an ideology can function not only even if you don't believe in it but you it is prohibited to believe in it this was the beautiful Paradox of EX Yugoslavia I had two friends who worked in the Central Committee of the SLV party they lost
their job you know why because they were stupid and took the ruling ideology too seriously but you know who are for me change the topic but along the same line the true nostalgics today that's why I don't like the novel this will again hurt some of you Margaret Edwood handmaid stale this is for me true
Nostalgia it's what fredri jamson called Nostalgia for the present it paints this horrible near future it doesn't raise the crucial question but she's still too fascinated by our permissive societies and so on and so on you know for sorry these are side issues if I visit your
debate with Jordan Peterson it's on YouTube I felt you w that debate and it's striking to me the discussion between 1 hour 10 minutes and 1 hour 18 minutes and in that part of the discussion you say that you calling yourself a communist is a bit of a
provocation but now I'd like to draw a comparison take the writer who just won the Nobel Prize in literature Peter hka right sometimes called an Austrian but he's ethnic sloven he he has sympathized with the Serbian atrocities yeah and you are hard on him correctly so you don't
don't give him the space of that being a provocation he is so close to your world that you apply a more absolutist moral standard and you want him to jettison his Serbian Nostalgia and I am submitting that Nostalgia for what do I have Nostalgia I I the attachment to the
label communist you can do everything you want without that word without the concept without having step by you know the old joke what's the difference between a communist and a Nazi tenure right you mean University ten yes it's a joke but the point is you don't need communism I you are
much smaller than go let's go step by step first H my criticism of him was very specific even before he got involved into what he got involved to I didn't like the game he played for example I remember his text from 30 years ago 40 before where he said in Austria everything is commodi fight you
go to a store every brand of milk has a name you cross the border to PO Slovenia it just says milk with no brand name and so on and what I hate is we should agree even here what I call through borrowing the term of my friend another Austrian philosopher Robert fer interp passive
authenticity you want to keep your well good life in the west but you like to be authentic through others this is why we were very good he was proud to refer to usin in so far as we were the modest poor Communists the moment we wanted our own State join European Union we
betrayed his dream that's why maybe you know in the text I quote this wonderful saying by if you are caught into another's dream and that's for me we should agree here the big problem of Western academic left they're always searching for another place where things really happen
when I was young it was Kuba then it was a a decade ago Trav Venezuela and so on and so on no nothing great happens elsewhere and so on and to my Ser friends I declare that they will see if they will succeed too well he will betray them also they will disappoint him you know this is what annoys me with
h if you if you ask me but listen talking about Nostalgia I'm sorry to tell you but I'm not saying I was a great dissident but now I will say something arrogant if there are not some great dissident from Eastern Europe here then probably I can Venture a hypothesis
that I did more for The Disappearance of East European communism than any of you in this room I was for 5 years unemployed I had to survive through parents and so on and so on so I was there when it was needed and so on and I'm even a little bit proud to say that
the role I played at that time is that when you said we have problems right-wing politicians yes we also do it but Slovenia is the only post Yugoslav country where nationalists never took over that we did I was at that time it will show Toyo member of a party called
liberal Democratic party and we did it we we but you know what for me the again I return to that I I appreciate what you but please ask me that question how will we deal with ecology you really think that with Market a little bit of that it can be dealt no we need much more than
that we need more don't okay I call that more communism you know why people idiots tell me not you why why don't you call it socialism everybody is a socialist today Bill Gates says he's a socialist and so on it's meaningless socialism basically means today you care for society Hitler
cared for society I don't care you know I just want to signal that as you nicely said now something a little bit more radical will be needed that's all I'm saying sometimes I I love your books I've read more than half of them which is lot madman madman your Gul sentence
is redoubled now but one thing I crave is to one day just see you writing about a question like the electric tram in Baran should it go through a tunnel or not and you would not be allowed to mention fukiyama you couldn't use the CW word capitalism or communism and just
analyze that question or look at a municipal bus system in Denmark somewhere and those to me are in some ways more question may we have a then because I will tell you why not this this may surprise you the answer yes first you know I tremendous this was the
point you know when in my short speech short when I said I despise for me the model of catastrophe today my friends they cried Tak Square syag we were there 1 million people we were all crying wonderful I say F off what interest me I hope we agree here is what happens two
months later well I'm I'm all for this pragmatic concrete problems I'm not waiting for a big revolution I just am now this may surprise you for somebody who may sound so B bombastic as pretentious like me you know strange as it will sound but I don't know everything you know like I'm immediately
thinking in literal terms what what to do so many factors I don't know enough I I I like this totally concrete empirical problems I like paradoxes for example would you agree very briefly maybe you found this in one of my books I'm not quoting this as an argument for anti-
capitalism I don't know that but there are some group experiments which fascinate me which proves that you cannot reduce some forms of solidarity to money an Jewish friend from Israel told me this they had a kindergarten there and uh this story is apocryphal people have tried to follow up on the
kindergarten in Israel story it's probably not true really are we talking about one when they made it when they made pay even less we're not we're not sure this is true I've looked in it's possibly true it cannot be confirmed but I I accept the point sometimes when
everything has aice I believe surprising and when I talk about communism and so on my god I've written texts it and know I go on into it into for me communism is just as I emphasize and the name of a problem is not a solution I you know now I I will say something that will shock
you I'm well aware some of my communist friends admitted that even if we imagine something similar to Communism the mega problem will be envy and so on and this is who is one of the great guys my God the one who conducted cha according to leftist mythology not Pinochet The
Economist free market who advised Pinochet according harberger no no no no the big guy the sorry I think he only visited once or twice that was not my point but one of those guys when reproached with the fact that but capitalism is unjust you work harshly you fail your neighbor was he
said but that's why capitalism works because he said your pride Sur lives intact let's say we are two guys we live in a just society and if there is no lack and Injustice this means if you are richer than me I have to admit that I'm more stupid than you but capitalist
Injustice it's a very elegant argument communism is easy in a way you always have an excuse right the system screwed the and you're always right now I will ask you this is my big argument against happiness do you agree if you are now like my stazy Observer you have your
list yes you remember when I argue about happiness against I take as an example and I was there I talk with people who sucks Czechoslovakia in the 70s material needs were basically satisfied nobody was doing that and as you said you always had an excuse there was too much
rain or Dro Communists screwed it up then very important you had a nearby Country West Germany which was the ideal ad but it was not too far away and so on that's why I'm against happiness happiness means no responsibility relatively comfortable life you know
because after already after KV basically with brn you must know this communist ow made a PCT with population they admitted we will never reach the west but the message was you leave us political power we leave you your private Niche where you can enjoy your life and and so on and so on I
think that kushev was paradoxically don't you agree the last guy who somehow paradoxically you know he was sincere in that you must know it United Nations speech where he yeah he the last EPO where the ruling nomenclatura have still believed in communism after that it's a
totally different logic of emancipation some of the Communist EMP power I love this in Yugoslavia even refer to Maru Frankfurt School they said but you know in the west you have commodification alienation here you can take it easy it's more poor and so on and so on you know sorry I too much let me praise you
some more no all your yes all your books I've read one of my favorite things in the books is how much humor you have and in person speaking or over breakfast for this I will share your sing gulak probably your humor which is based on Insight right rather than hny Youngman
type of joke FKS uh is phenomenally good but here's what strikes me you have the humor of a right-winger of a right-wing moderate so if you think of today's left it is increasingly humorless you're not allowed to talk about so many things on gender your views are much more
right-wing than leftwing that's debatable I don't left wi is moving when I sit down with my right-wing friends and they joke around their jokes are in Broad terms like yours leftwing my answer to this is simple my answer to this is that's why politically correct Le are doing all
possible to get Trump reelected if you ask me a little bit more years on this and we will be where we are but let me add as a sign of friendship to you another bad taste humor about you you are my friend I like you so when we commun this take over yes uh nonetheless
because you are objectively guilty you go to gulak okay but as a special favor to you you know what you got on better days in gulak on S day some kind of disgusting soup in trails and hats half rotten fishes and potato maybe some bread in it don't exaggerate and I will call from my
Moscow Center yes and Isn't it nice you will get two plates of that soup do you do you agree you have an increasingly right-wing sense of humor and that if we're going to be why call it rightwing when I was to make fun of s irony it is no longer leftwing humor the world
has for the worse okay we're making progress maybe you are indeed the moderate right communist Nostalgia rum State communist who is maybe almost ready to abandon that final bit of the Nostalgia don't count on that too much because I still think that the crisis will hit us I I see signs here it comes
my pessimism I think that the situation today with new rightwing blah blah blah and here as we already talked about it I'm very open for example do they exist here not we talked about it so-called incels invol celibat usually they DEC as the worst women hating fascist no they
do something I think almost tragic they try to turn their failure and already this is Politically Incorrect to State today you cannot address a woman almost it's prohibited saying she's beautiful you cannot say to a man you are nonattractive enough you cannot get any
woman but that's their experience and I admire how without any imminent violence they turn this into a wonderful performance especially clown cells and so on it's a wonderful way to survive a pretty terrifying predicament and I don't buy the they automatically NE fascist and so on concerning feminism
and my reproach to me too is not they are too radical and so on but it's a upper middle class fake American feminism should first do I hope we agree here a little bit of a good old-fashioned stalinist you will say again Nostalgia self-criticism you know there are so
many sins of American feminism do you know for example they supported American invasion of Iraq that it will help women well we know today that the situation of women today in Iraq is much worse than under Sadam Sadam was an brutal despot but relatively secular this is what
bothers me second problem you will again say I'm conservative here it I don't care the problem with political correctness is for me that questions which are questions of uh not manners in a superficial sense but of Customs here I am as you know a hegelian hugel always
emphasized the basis that holds Society together are Unwritten rules customs and so on political correctness stes too much to legalize it you know you are allowed to call this name for example let me give you a provocative example you know it to to provoke you once I
problematize this idea of consent even bureaucratic consent you have to State it on a selfie sign before mutual agreement and they say oh so I think we can rape women we don't need consent they totally misread me on the opposite I just claim consent in itself is good
better than nothing but it doesn't solve the problem there is so much pressure violence which can survive the form of consent even if there is a formal consent and sexual exploitation can go on and so on and so on my problem with LGBT plus as if I'm attacking them no the problem I see there I wonder if you
agree is this one I have a problem with identity Politics the problem is that the idea of predominant there are many LGBT plus who are extremely good theorists persons but the predominant view is the one of this one I simplify it there is some kind of multiplicity of
gender positions FL think it's almost the Mau version you let the 100 flowers Blossom let 100 boots gender bisex triex and then evil patriarchy comes imposes the binary division let's get rid of these and some of them even establish a list 30 35 positions my God and then
they say Freud is outdated if there is anything to learn from Freud is that that sexuality is in itself antagonist traumatic Shady domains and so on and so on that's my first point my so it's as if what bothers me in LGBT plus is as if if we get rid of social pressure we are
we get some kind of happy sexuality the first presupposition that adoped here is because you do what you desire my God didn't they read frud how do you know that you really desire what you think that you desire there are all the ambiguities here my second problem and
that's the theoretical one let's move into Hegel a little bit maybe you know my line LGBT plus it's all about plus no because the ordinary LGBT theorists are for me two British empiricists plus is for them simply maybe we don't yet know all identities let's leave it open you
know like maybe there will be other gender identities we will include them no as I got this I forgot Kine sorry from an Australian LGBT theorist very intelligent lady who wrote to me but what if plus itself is a subjective position you can be a plus in the sense
of you know at a distance doubting and I think this is feminine position at it stronger I will go to absolutely everyday level that's why the most provocative woman's answer is why do you love me because there is no answer to this question the moment you answer it it's not true love by definition if I
tell you why I love you then it becomes matter of M you know so what I'm saying is that I just try to complicate things why not move to Singapore yeah it's a wonderful country and if you ask which nation has the quality of government and the thoughtfulness and the long time
Horizon to actually deal with ecological problems are they not near or at the top top of the list and therefore you and I can join hands in embracing Singapore and presenting it to the world you know here I I may be Marxist but isn't it that Singapore Ness enjoys its role as a structural an
exception I don't think you can expand Singapore to Indonesia already with Malaysia there are problems and so on and so on well every country is different but clearly Singapore has stronger there because you know I Rec that Singapore Port is even at some
point it was the busiest port in the world and so on which means they are kind of a Nole point for the countries around them and so on I doubt second thing maybe I have here too much liberal sensitivity but nonetheless you know it's a kind of a the way I would Define
Singapore you may disagree is is fascism with a human face a very human face it's consensual and so on but there are so strict limits even at the everyday ridiculous level for example I was there with my son who wanted some chewing gun we went to a store and they laughed at
me are you crazy you have to go to Pharmacy we went to a pharmacy they said okay where do have doctor's prescription I said no I'm this is fine this is not fascism Singapore did that because too many people were leaving the chewing gum on the subway doors and it was creating
a problem maybe they overreacted criticism of Singapore the che what I say come join me at the food stalls right where in Singapore yeah I know where all the best ones are right jump on board forget the Communist thing the Nostalgia can be for Singapore 13 years ago which in some ways was less
crowded right it's a better Nostalgia no no no but but again don't you see where my communism comes seriously it's precisely I it's not where you think I don't think there is any link with me clinging to the name communism and my Nostalgia those times I'm well aware
were more or less a nightmare I mean I'm listen one reason against Nostalgia is that I was jobless although you may know this joke something wonderful happened when people ask me which was the key factor for your relative success in the west I told them communist oppression
because I applied for a job when I finished my post doal doctoral studies in 1973 and this was the harsh line I couldn't get the job and then I was for a couple of years unemployed I was looking for contacts in the west without communist oppression I would have been
now an unknown professor in city of lublana Slovenia as sometimes you remind me of libak the Slovenian rock group they they're my friend my God I'm with them from late from late 80s and now things get complicated there you know why because many leftists who support them are n less
afraid of course okay they are staging totalitarian rituals what if some people will take it seriously and so on and once they were asked are you a fascist and one of them said I am a fascist like Hitler was a painter what answer is that I don't know but why can't they just say
I'm not a fascist and then you could say I'm not a communist and you and Li Bach and we could all meet in the food stalls of Singapore Taiwan have a nice time right better batteries so solar power can really save us we could have the government subsidize you know better
Battery Technology I know it's not all we need to do but think about that electric another I can tell you from my personal contact with libak that they don't mean it as an ironic spectacle they are very serious in their heartline that's what I like about them they're not Don't Be
Afraid we are not really totalitarians it's just one big social game and so on and so W but at a certain point I didn't want to join them because they wanted me you probably know two years ago when they went to uh North Korea North Korea no it would be too much sure of course I
I didn't want to too communist for you yeah no but nonetheless you know what was so interesting with liak here you have the complexity of ideological process that all this fear will they be manipulated by radical right and so on they never we whenever they are popular never the right I know what the
right Wingers at least in Europe are listening it's not the German version of libak there was some influence do you know Ramstein the group links links they are left and it's a beautiful the right thing to do for the left to appropriate this horrible totalitarian sounding
stuff and so on and so on the right Wingers that I know they think beautiful romantic songs apolitical usually and so on and so on but still you know where you I get your point of course I still when you said no something more will be needed F you what more tell me you say
no no no it's not I know ecology and so on digital control have you any idea what what more will be needed what do you think that ecological party will be elected I hope so maybe it's 20% electric cars now I don't know what beran did to get that but many parts of the world could learn from
whatever has been done here and we're at 20 let's work for 60 right yeah but on the other hand my only not criticism of Norway is that you have oil gas and so on you know you can we can I would like to learn from Norway but I would like even more if you give me your
natural you earn from the oil and then divest from fil although I have one argument for you here the good thing about Singapore is that they have no natural resources no well they do a lot of refining there so refining yes but no no uh not that I'm aware of but what
what made made it is it kind of one incidental conjunction that what I would have maybe said about Singapore of uh this Chinese proclivity to hard work and English legislation or what there must have been some unique combination keep in mind the Chinese themselves felt at
first that the Chinese who went to Singapore were kind of the losers who were not doing well in China the poorly educated peasants but the Singaporean government thought let's invest in human capital when which government I'm talking about on you yes yeah and it
worked for the most part but what's then your problem with China because do you know you must know this that at the beginning of History forums Den pink came to Singapore everybody everywhere there they show it and said Singapore should be a model for it is time for China to liberalize I don't see them
doing that they seem to be moving in the opposite direction here and now we T the true problem sorry now I'm not losing time you know where I am a pessimist some of my liberal friends tell me oh China achieved so much with full political liberalization they would have
achieved even more I doubt it we don't know the counterfactual speaking of counterfactual have a question for you about Donald Trump yeah so you initially said well if Trump wins it could be good because it will Revitalize the left he did there was then another another article where they
people asked you did you really mean it and you said maybe a year ago yes but I look at the Democratic race front runner number one is Joseph Biden age I think 77 yeah he was vice president for eight years mayor Pete is now number two because he took a moderate stance sorry
who name mayor Pete Buddha Buddha judge I'm so sorry I don't know know how to pronounce that name I'm not sure I do either but he he's a mayor from South Bend Indiana to me you know perfectly fine candidate and the Democratic conservatives are in the
ascendancy and where the Democrats have gone hard left is identity politics and that's exactly the thing you hate so why has it been good four years of trump maybe eight years of trump we don't have time to go it but let me be specific Democrats who go for identity politics
already Hillary tried this against Donald Trump yes and sorry sorry against against Bernie Sanders that's why I admire Alexandria Casio Cortez who said something very ingenious you must have read it who who said uh recently endorsing Bernie Sanders I endorsed him
not in spite of him being an old white man but because her idea was this one Bernie Sanders can get us we don't need de Center Democrats are obsessed if you go to much the left we lose this Cent votes and so on Trump did exactly the opposite I think the target of the democratic party should be those
impoverished white half unemployed workers who otherwise would have voted for Trump not those middle of the road and so on and so on Trump is a genius here how he broke all the rules and so on because do you remember how often in his campaign when he said something I
know Preposterous horrible liberal press said oh Trump just show himself his over and so on no it's not over Trump proved that sometimes the only way to majority is through extremes it's not always that Center works but I worry here there's a parallel your views and pronouncements
on Trump and on communism so in the case of trump you think well I can say this I have a vision that will work out a particular way the Democratic left will be revitalized but what we've gotten is the worst the identity politic the moderates are on the rise and then
there's a sense of well I can attach myself to Communism I have a particular theory that will work out some way it will tell us we always need more when it comes to ecology but that to me seems like the Trump prediction we know from the work of Philip tetlock it's just very hard to
predict the future so why not stand up for just the right values like tber right I don't agree with everything she says but her core message is correct she is unambiguous she's to the point it's not ironic there's got some complicated the she is the Contemporary communist
for me fully you know why but you know what I know forget you know what I like about Miss Carlson is a communist you know what what I like about Greta zberg first you remember some media in Europe tried to blame her parents you know they are manipulating her my answer was I
hope they do I hope why shouldn't we the left also manipulate but what I like is precisely I didn't like her at the beginning you remember when she played that innocent girl who is telling us that the emperor is naked but did you notice how in the last year old man she
has this almost a little bit of diabolically aggressive smile I like the mean Greta zberg I don't like the good innocent girl and I also referred to her you know for me she is deeply feminine but not the usual notion not femininity promoted by the media today holistic
dialogue uh no no no she's quite dogmatic in this that's what we need today and I don't need anything more okay we can debate the name but I think that that what she is doing is definitely communist today for me Greta tber aong and so on incidentally do you know the story I must repeat it to you I
hope all of you don't know it when I visited him two weeks ago in prison it's wonderful I couldn't believe it I'm sorry some of you know it I was sitting close to him like this in open space at the table A friend brought me a cup of coffee plastic cover I took the cover
off and drank some coffee and put coffee back on the table in two seconds literally a guard was there very gentle soft no ter and just said please sir put the cover plastic cover back on the coffee I asked afterwards I didn't want to cause problems there why they told me
you were sitting opposite as son an evil man it was for my own good they told me they wanted to block the possibility that evil man like a son will grab the boiling coffee and threw it into my face and so all it no but I think okay these are my heroes you like alternate
scenarios right no there is no alternate here i' like tell what's the alternate scenario where you write books which are not so much PTI not so much bringing together of disperate elements but you become a kind of realistic nonan preacher almost like runberg return somewhat to your Catholic Roots embra
race your right moderate side retire in Singapore and go gallivanting off to the food stall where you we share your sense of humor with my rightwing friend what is that alternative scenario ecuator is too hot for me if I re if I retire and I'm not lying to you now two three times
I've written about it I want to retire to the part of Norway which is not even Norway I'm not kidding I wrote about it it's my ideal Place Long here being walber Island that's my ideal place it's half empty nothing there and it's very good prospects for survival because you
know the joke it's prohibited to die there because but last question but scenario we were you evolve in this manner with your rightwing sense of humor what does that look like why do you call it's the humor of my youth my God yes thank you what has to happen for
that scenario to come about I'm not saying it will happen but what is that science fiction world look like what would you have to first I will tell you no no I'm not trying to make cheap propaganda for myself but I did try to practice this you know what one of my
books which was not full failure but close to a failure my rewriting of antigon did you read that one no I have not read that I love that one you know what I did I took it's precisely alternate scenario I took and you will not like the third version I took antigona but you should like it because
it's very pragmatic I took first it at it's pure alternate logic like kl's film and that Lola runs and so on first I took the way the story you have in sofocles which incidentally is not the original story the original Greek myth is totally different okay you know what
happens I will not repeat them then at the moment of her big conflict in the middle of the play with uh with crayon I play alternate reality she wins crayon says okay you are right let's allow the burial in my scenario what happens is that as crayon suspected there is again
Revolt again the traitor the whole of tibus the city is in ruin and at the end of the second version he walks desperate in the city and uh cries like that famous you know h line of antigona I was created for love not for war that and the corus answers you but
that's what you created then comes the third version last word is for you but you have 38 seconds so use the third version that you will like I hope is while crayon and antigon are fighting the corus steps over said you are both traitors uh ruining the city you should both be liquidated and they
establish a kind of jacobine Terror and they're both liquidated nobody likes this I don't La thank you very much thank you but don't you suspect me I still have zero seconds but don't you suspect me how come that you don't have don't you trust me that fear that now I'm
talking soft but if I get too close to power you will see the stying inside of me you don't suspect me of really being a bad guy you trust me don't I think your attachment and almost obsession with plenitude and being generative PL of ideas idea the sense in which you are generative which is a personality
feature and a temperament and neurological in you that that so overwhelms whatever oppressive Tendencies You might have that if you were appointed dictator of whatever you would just go off and write more books and you can't help it and I admire this and some I will tell you a story very
brief one don't be afraid no time that's what I like is even I hope you will like this in mark my favorite passage in Marx is maybe you know it 1870 Paris commune there was a dream that maybe there will be a European Revolution and marks wrote a letter to
angles I love him for that where he says oh my God they want the revolution now but but I haven't yet finished the capital not now I have to finish my book that's the true spirit that I exactly and that's why I trust you now we have a method for questions there will be
questions from the floor and questions from Twitter your questions from the floor are to be questions not statements not proclamations not political platforms we are here to hear this man so I will cut you off if it is not a proper question but before we get to
that we have four questions on video at least one of which is too long and I'm told they're your friends but you need more enemies perhaps yeah ABS I'm first we start with those questions let's get to those and then questions and microphones will come around and will
all be managed efficiently because this is Ban Norway questions from the video first video please my line of questioning for slavo has to do with the Marxist critique of political economy first in relation to Marx's historical materialism do you think there have been any major changes
in the basic relations between economic infrastructure and more than economic superstructure in capitalism between the mid 19th century and today has the role or weight of the economy in shaping social history altered over this period second if you were to rewrite
Marx's critical rendition of Economics for the 21st century what components of it would you prioritize updating revising scrapping or replacing what would be some of the distinctive features of your own contemporary critique of political economy they are all my friends I know
who will be so I will on the other hand these are difficult theoretical questions we need another two hours I will just say that yes I agree with I cannot go into it now with Adrian's Point how the relationship between ideology economic infrastructural change and so on and so on but all I can do now
is point out what he knows and most of us know that already in March and that's one of the critical points that we need to read marks what I really admire in Marx because it's not what you idiots not you personally but think it's his theory of commodity fetishism it's not
simply we believe in fetishist not no the Marxist theory is that we boura subjects in our actual life we are usually pragmatic anglosaxon utilitarians the fetishist inversion is in how we act our reality is structured Marx has a wonderful Theory where it's not not this Enlightenment Vision you
know we dream Illusions the other thing is real life no we can be very to repeat a joke that I'm sure you all know but it renders perfectly the point you know that story that I always repeat Neil B and the Horseshoe you know nbor had a horseshoe AC at his country house across
the entrance Door superstitious item and a friend asked me why do you have it there aren't you a scientist do you believe in it you know what's n B's answer of course I don't believe in it but I have it there because I was told that it works even if you don't believe
in it that's how ideology works today at this level the extent and maybe you would agree with this the lesson of Marx is that that's why interestingly enough commodity fetishism he never calls it ideology because it's something very strange it is a system of beliefs and so
on but objectivized central part of infrastructure itself along those lines I would say we have to go further than marks and so on and so on I don't want to second video question please my question is about communism so along with alen Badu you are one of the philosophers who
reinvigorated the philosophical discussion of the idea of Communism with a series of books and conferences and events and so I'm wondering about your thinking about that project and the potential for commun M now I'm also thinking about your um additions of
collected works of lenon um different um volumes that you've produced um with Lennon's works and then and some of your um events also your event with um Jordan Peterson and so my sense is that uh for the most part you work within the um communist tradition in addition to Hegel
and Lan but yet sometimes it seems like your position is that every part of the 20th century experience has to be um erased has to be forgotten has to be um overcome that we go back to the beginning and we don't need to use anything that we learned in the 20th century other times it seems
like you're precisely actually um learning from the 20th century and using some of the writings of lennin and the achievements U and the examples from European history in the 20th century so I'm hoping that you might clarify how you see the potential for communist
politics today right not just communist philosophy but communist politics today what kind of organizational forms you think it requires and whether or not there really is a potential in communist movement maybe another way to say this is how do you imagine the end of capitalism again another two hours
answer question uh uh what I would say is that looked CL first I didn't my God I'm not crazy I'm I didn't edit collected works of Lenin I haven't read them never what interested me is Lenin at a very precise moment what fascinates me in lenning and I said this in both of
my introductions to some texts that first lenning time is over I don't play the boring Trot Sky game of you know this crazy dream oh if only Lenin were to survive two years longer he would have made it packed with throt SK Stalin would be Sid step and so on no the
deadlock was there from the beginning so what what interest me in lenning and maybe that's what we need today is this totally pragmatic voluntarist Spirit isn't it clear that in 1917 it was a total mess lenning often didn't know what to do some even liberal communist praise His State and
Revolution but what he says there is something that he immediately abandoned them what interests me is especially lenning in 2122 and this was the big failure of the October Revolution they wanton the Civil War and then it would have been my moment okay now it's everyday life
invent new forms if you can they failed but uh Lenin was at least the one who he said openly our situation is totally desperate we don't have any formula he didn't have any trust in the future he he saw this total openness that's what fascinates me but I'm not
preaching in any sense the return to it so my idea unfortunately I'm here maybe a little bit more let's call it pessimist I really think and incidentally in this metaphor of returning to zero level I quote Lenin who wrote in 2122 a wonderful text where he said we nothing worked then he said
it's not that we should stabilize our achievements but we should return to the zero level begin from nowhere and quoting data which also you mentioned the horrible uh the the fact that the only livable communism today communism in the formal sense the Chinese one means ecological problems more digital
control and so on and so on we have to begin in some sense from the zero Lenin already did this not just as a good direction if you are dogmatic Marxist you can show that Lenin totally overturned Marx and so on in this sense Lenin was not the one of the Fidelity to
Marx he pretended to be but you know how religious revolutions also work all great Revolution proclaims itself return to Origins mark Martin Luther the greatest religion oh we just want to return to the original Bible and so on so no I think again that with all
objective study and so on see the good bad sides but the 20th century communism was ultimately a failure an absolute failure third video question please hi slav Paul Taylor here hope life's treating you well my question relates to the role of academics as independent critical
thinkers in my experience within the UK sector at least academics over the years when confronted with growing bureaucracy growing commercialism have behaved like leming type creatures or quizzl thingss to use a couple of references your Norwegian audience will be familiar
with and given brexit as a recent example there's very little genuine debate over all the complicated topics around leaving the EU or not leaving as the case may be and there's a level of Conformity and group thing that reminds me of the movie Stepford Wives if that rings a bell with
you so my question to you is you've experienced Yugoslav communist system and you've experienced something of the UK academic system which of those environments do you think is most conducive to genuine iCal engaged intellectuals thanks it's a very nice question and
again you will accus me of nostalgia but I would say in the last decade 1980s Yugoslavia was better you know why there was not yet a total economic Fiasco and that was the beauty from 1980 at least maybe 82 the ruling nomenclatura were already preparing for the Fiasco so actually I think that some
of the governments in different republics were pretty good you know why because they knew they don't have Democratic legitimacy so they tried to do to learn some legitimacy think for example a very s story in mid 80s or 67 a gay organization formed itself in Slovenia
immediately a delegate from Central Committee came there yes you are progressive we are for do you want financial support and so on and so on then we got democracy 1990 the first thing that the city Town Council whatever dominated by conservative is is abolish all have to this gay
organization so in some paradoxical sense it was a golden era I would say the second half but I don't have any Illusions it's not that Communists were good orwh but communist in power knew they were fighting for survival this is incidentally also how I read the
explosion of nationalism milosovic got this communist nomenclatura had a problem democracy is coming how to regain some type of democratic legitimacy without canceling themselves as nomenclatura the answer obvious was paint yourself as defender of national interest and so on nationalism and so on
on the other hand I must say what makes me so depressive and United States are big enough are not the worst but especially UK I don't know how it is here it's this pragmatic ter of philosophy has to serve concrete social needs labor party more than teer began
this in England my friend philosopher are telling me you got labor Representatives coming to University's philosophy department and say we will give you more money but we will just match if you get some money from uh private companies and so on and so on but what I like about today's I think
this is certainly not a traditional leftist idea that what's good about Academia is precisely that it's a space with no concrete attachment to any needs of society you can go crazy you can freely debate and so on and so on and this is more and more difficult today
even in gery they are telling me my good friend conservative but bright Peter Slaughter Dy he told me to get more money you know what he likes to do business weekends years ago he went for a weekend to Volkswagen top managers and explain them you know this what's going on today postmodernity the
situation and so on and God I didn't so what I'm saying is that this reminds me in an uncanny way to the Worst Years in ex Yugoslavia 70s of the Communist oppression this focus on also human Sciences has to work for society expert solve problems no we don't need that
today we need precisely Academia Humanities in their useless character they the only also in Sciences I think if you look closely isn't it that practically all big inventions as far as I can judge emerg either in a totally contingent external way usually some military contract or as a private Hobby
and so on so what I advise you if you're here at the university is don't believe in this Mantra of you are here boura spending money hard-earned workers money and so on uh be more useful no what's great about University is they are not useful in the immediate sense that's
what we should expect from you academics all great things again to use the guy whom you mentioned this morning uh how do yon elster yes he has wonderful term years ago of states which are necessary a byproduct it just comes you cannot plan it Academia should be a place for
this last video question please hi sa from Australia s my greetings you've often spoken critically of the hin Paradigm where the danger lies there grows the saving power the idea that disaster Harbors the seeds of its own overcoming the catastrophe provides both the negative
index and even the opportunity for Redemption it's a model of historical catastrophe or crisis that's often associated with a kind of dialectical Salvage along pseudo hegelian lines I'm saying pseudo hegelian because you've done so much to argue that Hegel himself
resists this kind of negative eschatology but you've often suggested that Mark Falls prey to his way of thinking one of the few criticisms of this Paradigm and is that it exaggerates or misconstrues the exceptionality of the present and misunderstands the nature of
the crisis and of Crisis specifically it underestimates the capacity of capitalism to absorb and feed on its own crises can we still hold to the idea of capitalism as being its own gra biger can you elaborate your critique of the helan Paradigm in the light of the present when we can see the the danger
the ravaging effects of global capitalism all around us to the sense that maybe danger itself is not the word we can use any longer and where previous models of Crisis seem not to hold specifically and here's my my question is there a concept of revolution in the
present context that does not fall prey to this Paradigm uh again it's a mega difficult question just to explain to you know what see Rebecca K incidentally here I am a sincere not politic Ally correct feminist I'm organizing next October New York big Hegel conference the majority
will be women and I already brutally apologize to people no no I'm not politically correct feminist it's simply that the best heelan studies come from women today so okay so helerin parad you know this passage from helerin the Jour rantic poem all the time quoted by
harder V gar Vex do WR the out where the danger is the greatest the point of Salvation is also near and so on and this is a model for the usual revolutionary thinking even in Marx proletariat zero level exploitation poverty but there is a chance that you turned around into salvation I'm here a
hegelian if you ask me I much more believe and I will not go into it now it's another half an hour how do I apply this to what I was telling about catastrophes apocalypses and so on the postapocalyptic vision hegel's problem is exactly the opposite one the big
attempt at Liberation happened French Revolution and for Hegel I don't totally agree with him but nonetheless it turned wrong jacobine Terror and so on so what went wrong Hegel is not a crazy Optimist as bad as things are you should see a chance for the better no he
basic Insight is exactly the opposite one no matter how good an idea or a project is we can be sure that it will be somehow that it will turn wrong somehow and I think what Hegel did to French Revolution we should do to 20th century communism first we have to still
we disagree here maybe uh I still see some tremendous utopian emancipatory potential but it went terribly wrong with stalinism and so on and we shouldn't play this cheap games just corrupted Stalin or even did you notice how Marxist are often even racist here they put the blame on Russia is too
close to Asia so it's Asiatic barbarism which is responsible for it no it things went wrong and we have to begin thinking from this what's then the solution simply return to more modest previous model of society this is my vision today yes we are approaching a crisis but we
cannot simply Revitalize the 20th century communism we can we should rethink it radically I'm again a hegelian a hegelian pessimist here Hegel is for me a thinker of deep distrust hegelian Dogma is everything turns wrong so only this whole delicate hegelian theory of
repetition only the second time to do it again you have to do it again maybe you have a chance the second time if you learn the lessons of the first time and I think that's what we need today this much more modest Spirit don't wait for a big revolution it already happened and
it got screwed up we now take questions from the Flor L I will call on you and please wait for the mic this way you can be captured on YouTube you are deeply a good stalinist no I am yeah yeah democracy you want order here in the frontier there's two people with hands up and we'll do them in
sequence I'm Jesse toel from the philosophy Department here at the University of Bergen now you came here today to tell us that you are still a communist that's not an affirmation that's a reaffirmation so my questions are are two I've got uh the first is what has prompted this
reaffirmation of your commitment to Communism and the second question is has your commitment to Communism evolved over the years and if so how I think I implicitly maybe I failed answer this in my whatever you call it bombastic word speech talk or whatever that it's simply
the big dilemma is for me this one it's still again as I said the fukuyama Dilemma we are confronting a series of problems today among them not only Global migrations uh the new forms of dominations based on Digital Universe ecology and so on and so on is the
existing liberal Democratic capitalist system strong enough to cope with these problems or not and my answer is unfortunately no I I'm not saying now that this means anything go let's reinvent let's return to 20th century communism I'm totally I totally agree with you that all these problems
reappeared only now we are discovering all the ecological catastrophes go to East Germany whole areas are there totally contaminated go to parts of the Soviet Union which are even now prohibited and so on and so on but to put it very simply you know I I was never naively Pro communist my diploma
work in this was early '70s late 60s was rejected by University this were still communist time as not Marxist this may surprise many of you but you know that I began as a haidarian my first book was on haerian language in slov no I don't today I would settle accounts with the
book in Nazi Style burn it you know but what I'm saying is that uh this is to put it in very simplistic Common Sense terms that's why I'm so distrustful about this usual liberal optimism like you know of course all my sympathy goes with for example refugees but don't turn
it into a humanitarian problems but not in this politically correct way you know Western people like to in from develop country like to blame themselves like yeah yeah yeah whatever happens in third world it's colonialism we are guilty and so on no we are not responsible because
what one should never forget here I'm still I'm sorry to disappoint you stonly pro-european Enlightenment tradition even political correctness itself is I think a misdirected application of something that is part of European tradition of Enlightenment you cannot
even I think imagine something like political correct witness outside the Western tradition so again so that I don't get lost it's not that once I was a traditional authentic communist but I was very lucky in Yugoslavia you know why because I don't have any Illusions
about ex Yugoslavia I'm not nostalgic but you know what was our luck from early 60s borders were maybe for literally 20 dissident but other side were completely open as a student late 60s I was going once at least every two months if not more often by train to London Paris or Munich
to buy books and so on so for us in ex Yugoslavia the end of Communism was not this traumatic experience oh my God now we know what it is no we were there all the time going to the West no Illusions and maybe this was my luck that I had no Illusions about Yugoslav communism I
didn't buy the stupidity of some Western communist Yugoslavia is different it was an authentic Democratic communism but borders were open so I also didn't have great Illusions about the west and it goes to my honor check it up it appeared in 8889 in new left review a short text of
mine the East European republics of Gilead reference to Margaret edwood's handmade stale where it was clear to me that I predicted there explicitly that East European post communism will take this nationalist fundamentalist ter and so on and so on so again it's not that I
ever was a traditional Marxist because you know what was my formative experience I remember when I was young student the big conflict in Slovenia was between Marxist frankurt school and hiigarans hiigarans more dissident Frankfurt School official Marxist then the big French wave
exploded so-called structuralism post structuralism and both sides dissidents and the party officials used the same language attacking it that's what made my identity through the French experience but I'm sorry if I disappointed to but again my point is this one simply that we are
approaching problems catastrophic potentials and it will not be able to deal with it within the liberal Democratic capitalist system that's my my Foundation very simple one directly in front of her then in the front row over here and we'll need to compress the
answers a bit to I'm sorry I'm very sorry yes I will I will go into my Buddhist mode you know this like clap with one hand listen to my silence or whatever please sorry um so I think we can agree with that um the idea of a stateless communist uh Society is kind of stupid so could we apply the uh
idiot King in our the idiot king sorry edus idiot King right yeah who is this okay me no like like you talked about this in like theocrats where it becomes tyranny when the experts get in charge that's the worst yes yes um that's the worst I agree with that so we need like an idiot
King to be on the top so the expert can make the decisions under him could that solution be in a communist society and what would it up to a point very good question I would refer here to my Japanese friend very intelligent read him his book are translated most of into
English kin karatani and he okay it's provocative what but he said now the passage from boura to proletarian democracy I quote him is a passage from voting to Lottery you know that there must be a dimension of Lottery chance and so on to prevent expert Rule and so on so I believe that
in every whatever we call it more authentic democracy and so on an element of chance is needed and that's why from ancient Greece to Venice which was not exactly Democratic but n they were also obsessed with Lottery how did was the how do you call the boss do how do you do yes how
was he selected an incredibly nstep process very incredibly complex but it was a mixture of checking the person that he's not corrupted with Lottery with lot no so if on the other hand you know it's he is not yours but you were once their colony uh uh I mean Denmark
no Kart also was well aware of this you know I WR in a biography of how to pronounce it correctly kagor okay we in the corrupted way say Kar he was I think I WR biography once called by the king and like what lessons should I learn and he expected some deep theological
philosophical wisdom care no you must learn how to be polite how to say polite platitudes and so on and so on I believe in empty manners all our humanity is based on empty manners and this is what absolutely fascinates me I've written a lot about it how you know this I call
them sincere hypocrisies for example I don't know how you do this here but in my country let's say I'm sorry it's my old story some of you may know it let's say no but we are I don't know what's our let's say you are a millionaire I'm a poor guy you invite me to dinner the
bill to a restaurant the bill arrives in my country it's absolutely crucial to go through this empty ritual at the end the bill arrives we both know that you will pay but I have to insist a little bit no let's at least share it but not too much yeah not too much yes because because in
my ultimate Evil once I did this to a friend of mine it was very evil he insisted let me pay I said okay pay and he was he was totally desperate he had to claim oh I forgot my credit card but but what I'm saying isn't this something wonderful this is specific human
communication you make an offer a gesture which is expected to be rejected but nonetheless it has to be made and all our communication is like this like you walk on the street you stumble upon a friend and you tell him oh nice to see you how are you doing usually this is a
total lie you are thinking why didn't I see him 5 seconds before to cross you know and for this we need I'm asking answering your question I'm not lost for this we need idiots there is no civilization without this idiots two final questions one here one on Twitter
30 second answers M Class opportunist if you want to combine left and right you know yes question yeah my name is GIS Department of comparative literature I had prepared a complex question concerning the unoriented ab but I took the message from the moderators I just keep this
short and very concrete the signs of a communist future you mentioned two names at least Greta tunberg and Julian Assange so I would like to ask you very specifically how do you believe that the hearing about the exibition of assar will turn out at the end of February and
how do you think the outcome would affect that sign of a possible communist future 30 second answer yeah a very difficult question because I hope Julian he doesn't have a TV cannot watch it no because uh I'm more of a pessimist we are trying to do what can be done organize things here and there but the
entire establishment is against him and so on and so on but nonetheless there are good signs here and there even Paul rat the previous Australian prime minister turned against extradition and so on and so on so if you ask me about his concrete fate I will do but what can
I do all possible I'm a pessimist I think we should just hope that at least the after effect will be up Twitter question super quick 30 second answer Norway too suffers from the stigmatization of Communists and even though the poor are getting poorer and
the rich getting richer with far-right parties in Parliament workers are reluctant to turn to the left how can we best turn the proletariat towards our cause 30 seconds please you know uh first when you say poorer poor are getting poorer richer getting richer but still you know Norway
is still an ideal for many of us if I may say this you know like this I got from my good friend varakis who said you know everybody protests austerity and so on but for us or you in the developed West austerity means oh my God purchase power fell for half a per and so on
austerity is what happens in Greece where it fell for 30% and so on what I would say is again Alexandria Ocasio Cortez formula I'm totally again for all this new feminism and so on gay rights and so on but don't fall into this gap of cultural politics find a link with the majority
because poor are getting poorer and so on and so on is there a political party talking for them but not in this traditional Marxist way doesn't work but you know because so many in United States politically correct people you can see that their political correctness
quite often has a secret class bias they don't say it but the politically incorrect are the poor primitive people working class and so on and so on it's a much more complex situation and I will say now something that you will like but for this you will get to G Lu foring the problem is much bigger one
does the left I always I was there in Occupy Wall Street and I was asking them what do you want do we have a project many of them just had a vague idea less corruption big banks are corrupted what do you want do are you fukuyama a little bit more efficient system do you want
all Social Democratic welfare do you want old style communism and I will be very critical left leftist I'm the first one to admit that the left doesn't have I don't I'm not talking about legalistic details but a again en vision of a future Society I don't see do thank you
very much and thank you all for coming you see him you see him how evil he is he interrupted me exactly at this pessimist point you know and then he stiffled and brutally with his fascist boots oppress the good message that I wanted to finish it thank you very much [Applause]
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