[Music] how far can you really take your story because you have infinite stories I mean we could talk for days about the stuff that didn't make into the documentary I mean it's like a bowl of spaghetti you know you start out and you're like oh this looks so good and the more you eat it's like it's never ending never ends you know and and I just wonder how you can kind of even put your life into a
narrative with a duration attached to it it's kind of a crazy experience so Amy got I looked at several directors first and foremost showtime and scooter my manager came to me and said want you to do a documentary I was like absolutely not I'm so not into that idea and can I ask you just quickly why because multiple reasons roll around my head while well first of all I always just
thought documentaries were something that were like kind of at the end of your career and I still feel like I have like I feel like I'm you know I'm not quite on the back nine yet and um but the other thing is I'm really private and I just I I didn't want it to feel like a this is your life and look at all the awards and so once we sort of discussed how it should be and decided
it should be the story of the person as opposed to the career it made more sense to me and I have to say I love documentaries I mean the Nina Simone documentary The Wings document I we watch documentaries on the road all the time and even the Goos I mean I watched that one recently I was just like holy sh I that was great but you know it's like I don't know I just think it's it's
good especially in the day and age where everything is so branded and we we sort of manipulate what we want people to know about us um which is that's I'm so I'm too old for that like I'm not born into the social media era my kids are like Mom you know you were born in the 1780s and I'm like yeah I'm so happy and by the way we've had to adapt to that
experience and so we're always going to be a little suspicious of it because we come from a place we're able to control the boundaries between what you know and what you don't know and now your kids and to some degree our kids they were born into it I know and that's another interesting thing it's like when do you let your kids watch a documentary at what point do they realize that you
actually were a fully formed person before they were born you but um and most human beings don't even have that option we just get to tell the stories we want to tell yeah there's not enough ways there's not enough stories for you to keep back from them for the documentary to be compelling so it's got to be all out there it and you know what there it's warts and all and there's a
whole I mean there's there are five other documentaries on the cutan floor which eventually they'll know about all that stuff too and some of this stuff has really hard stuff you know um my kids are going to grow up understanding what mental illness is they're going to grow up understanding what it means to be a woman not just in the 80s and 90s but it's still going on it is and also
they're growing up with an older mom and they're saying they're seeing you know when they watch the documentary they'll see a young person who was at the top of their game and they're living with the person now who's still doing it but it's not the same you know what is the game and where is the top are the questions that you got to ask yourself all the time and if you can answer them honestly without
comparing apples and oranges there's always a new top and a new game yeah that's what I think well I love I love this part of my life so much I wouldn't change one single thing about it and there's something really liberating about I mean I hate to even say it I say there's something liberating about not being relevant I am relevant but there don't shake your head at me I just
mean it's I'm not going to ever right now ever say that about what you don't ever know well okay let me just say I'm have your headphones on but I Just Dropped a Bomb on that statement I'm just saying I'm not going to write music for um 20-year-olds and that is great because there're going to be 20-year-olds that like what I do but there's also going to be a whole other
population of people that totally are where I'm at anybody who's writing music for 20-y olds is failing before they even started 20y olds decide what they like and they decide what is relevant at that moment in time that is right and so when I say what is the game and where is the top you're having the best time of your life you're at the top of your game I feel it man I'm
so I'm so inspired fired right now I mean it's a trip to be raising kids right now I mean you know oh yeah and it's hard to keep your mouth shut and it's hard for me not to have my heart open because I'm just like taking everything in through their eyes and going holy crap man we need some music we need some we need some like Paul McCartney Yesterday and some yeah you're going through an
emotional Revolution Don't Dream It's Over and some stuff that just rips you apart you know and just makes you feel and yeah well considering the amount of feeling you put into your songs and how much you enabled us to find our feelings through music that were tucked away somewhere the fact that you've opened up a whole new room where it's even closer and more visceral that is an emotional
Revolution that's what kids do to you you know they pull apart any of those protective layers that you think are going to keep you in good shape and they're like they don't come along for the ride yeah they ain't there no see and I I'm so I mean obviously I adopted my kids after I had breast cancer and everything shifted and I was I'm just more convinced than ever I tell people all
the time when it comes to adopting or having your kids or whatever right now I believe you know your kids choose you they choose their path when they come in and if you are really aware and are present with them they are here to also teach you and man they're my best teachers really are they also hold my feet to the fire and they bust me all the time yeah yeah yeah
well they reflect the parts of you that you love and that you don't upon yourself and once you get past that all that stuff you kind of inherently Let It Go in terms of you storing it or me I store it and then you make room for the good and the stuff that they bring that's new and fresh and in a way doing this documentary is a similar thing you can finally take those files that have been
sitting in your hard drive brain and sort of say all right they're there they're never going anywhere but I don't have to keep clicking them anymore like they're out yeah it's there and I wonder how you felt looking back on it having done it whether you felt a little more space inside of you to move forward and not be that Cheryl yeah I mean there was
something really um I mean I hate to say the word cathartic but there was something cathartic about it I mean I had I had the safety net of having people around me that I trusted obviously my manager is has always been with me but also is a large part of the documentary he was also a producer on it handsome devil very handsome in fact there's a chemistry between the two of
you well we're both aging gracefully yes yes yes yes yes um recognized game you know what I mean yes yeah and you're both really sharp dressers as well um anyway um but just you know trusting Amy and her artistic choices and but also her knowing that look I'm not here to talk about Awards there's a world of living that started at a really young age being born with Melancholy um and that being the driving
force of my finding my identity in music and then later on in life that raising its ear its ugly head and also informing me about how to deal with the low lows and the high high I mean it's still difficult for me to talk about it without getting emotional cuz it's you know it's such a it's a part of who I am and and I've never had the Liberty to really talk about it and and people
don't talk about it you know they don't talk about struggling with mental illness depression and it's a very real part of who I am but also why I am and that is the part that you can't project on social media and even if you could um you you have to be able to suffer the ugly things that come in too you know so it's it's nice to be able to tell my story and have it be out and then I'm
I'm done you know I watched it once and I felt like it it told the story the story that Amy and her crew decided this is the story that needs to be told there are a lot of other things that could have been told as well but there's not time and I think they did a great job and they covered the things that I think were most important about my journey you
you know you watched it once I've watched it twice so far I watched music documentaries many times oh my gosh did you watch The Beatles chance I know of course I made my sick myself sick with it the last the last one I watched twice back to back and then I felt like I wanted to have a wake or something I I was so because it was the end of it a real era for all of humanity who grew up
in that time because those Mysteries and those questions and without answers was sort of what kept us connected in a lot of ways and so to finally get the last chapter of the series of the books was like well what do you mean there's no more books and then also to be able to go down the rabbit hole after seeing it and after witnessing the Brilliance in the room and real inspiration and creativity
and also a friendship between all four of them and then being able to go down the rabbit hole and read the interview with Paul McCarty and him talk about look the Press painted us out to be enemies but John and I talked you know many times throughout life and just ran it course you know all of it just I don't know I felt like after I watched it I really missed them I don't know how
people will feel after seeing this documentary I think it will definitely resonate with some women I think it will resonate with women outside of our business uh particularly women inside of our business hopefully it will resonate with people who have had struggles like I've had with depression and and Manic the high highs and the low lows and and also hopefully it will help us to sort
of as women Embrace being our ages and honoring that and feeling proud of it you know and not feeling like I got to run get my face fixed to look younger so that I'm more palatable to look at or I'm more perfect or whatever that this is part of I think it's part of the beautiful part of the journey I agree you know I agree and I think that you talk about
what how younger Generations deal with those expectations Now versus what you went through and I've come to the conclusion I don't think there any era whether it's today's generation or your Generation The Generation before had it any worse or any better it just is what it is in the time because on the one hand you got kids these days who are far more open about their internal struggles so that's
great but on the other hand there's far more opportunity for them to be faced with insecurity anxiety sense of selfworth judgment all that stuff right now the flip side of that is that you know you had to go through all that as well but you didn't have the ability to tell people this is hard this is tough you were in a generation where was like lights camera smile yeah go yeah because
your business depends on it and by the way if your business depends on it then your survival depends on it because as an artist you literally connect the idea of being able to sell records with I will die if I don't oh yeah absolutely and then also generationally you know your race is sort of like well you need to quit thinking about it make yourself busy find something to do uh volunteer if
you're if you're down I mean and also what do you have to be down about you're famous all your dreams have come true so go distract yourself with word because it works really good in terms of keeping the black dog at Bay exactly yeah and I you know I do I I think we've we've come so far um but we still are in other areas we're still in that dark closet you know
um I I was having a conversation in fact we have a new song on the um soundtrack called Forever and it was born of talking to my 15-year-old um who is you know he's he is a deep feeler he's an empath um he's always been that way and I'd love to take credit for it but I think he was born that way um they come out how they come out I think they come out how they come out yes yeah we
guide it but it ain't really yeah we just try not to mess it up yeah and talking about you know the amount of stress and the anxiety and you know I didn't have this kind of stress when I was a kid like being a teenager was hard because of hormones and things but I wasn't worried about somebody I love dying in a pandemic or some wacky leader dropping a you know a bomb on our
the stress they go through compounded with the amount of um expectation put on them to be perfect to look perfect constant feedback it's a different world and the suicide rate going up in teenagers is just you know it's shocking and so I wind up writing this song Club forever about the idea that we have to stay in every moment because we can't really we can't change the ones behind us and we can't dictate
the ones in front of us that's the definition of anxiety isn't it it is and I have to like remind myself of that you know oh yeah as apparent because guess what the biggest fears of all time are what happened before what hasn't happened yet M did I can make the wrong decision as a kid with a really important time five years ago and put them in the wrong school or the wrong
thing or what is that going to lead to down the road and all the unknowns and it's got the moment that's a real practice I mean I feel like songwriting is the is a huge tool for staying in the present moment and in the end we get to absorb it into our life as fans and it changes the context of our lives and what we think and feel but what you get out of it is you get to break that spell
for that singular moment of being able to just write because you can't give anything of yourself to anything else right for it to be effective it's interesting though I can remember after being diagnosed with breast cancer and then also having gone through a very public breakup I moved from La cuz I had like paparazzi shooting into my living room and trying
to capture me at my lowest and I came out of it making a pack with myself I'm not going to go and write I'm not going to you know try to write an incredible song I'm not going to take this experience and try to produce something and music is it's a Sav but there was a point at which for me it was bigger than a Sav it was like a life buoy and I had to figure out some way to tread without
that being the thing that was giving me selfworth wow you know and that's a hard thing when you put yourself you connect yourself so deeply with your work that you have to sort of go okay if I'm not my work then who am I oh I got to drop another one on that wow that is that's a first you know because like I'm just in this for the Curiosity right I'm obsessed with the art and I'm obsessed
with the with the way that where it comes from right that's going to be my life I've realized now that's my life outside of raising my family and being a good family member and a friend and husband and a father I'm just on that Journey right which is why you're really good at it I mean you follow you follow the conversation you don't have like a set of things that you need to cover or
whatever and that's a beautiful thing and that is a that is staying in the moment as well that's listening connecting and there was a great uh quote from the DOL llama saying the most genuine way you can show anyone Love Is by being present and I have to remind myself that I mean when I'm looking at my phone you know while we're watching the Bucks play I'm like dude how many
screens what do you what do you need here how do you expect them to win another championship if you're not going to give your full attention to throw that in there go buck right exactly by the way I'm I'm a fair weather supporter I only support the the the teams that that my guests support so right now I'm like go Bucks okay yes perfect that's all I care about tomorrow might be
something different just FYI don't judge me on that well it's going to be bucks all the way for us although I got to say I want to see Chris Paul I know dude I mean we all want him to win one I want him to win one we all want him to see to get a ring it's important I mean he's given to the game I want the bucks um and yeah Phoenix Phoenix I want them to yeah and then I
want Chris Paul to go home with a ring I'm sorry so you actually willing to give up a sorry Chris I'm sorry Drew holiday yeah that's your team that's but that's beautiful that's empathetic like at the end of the day you know when you've been so such an integral part of of of not only promoting the what's good about the game but also being a strong advocate for family and also for for the
Players Association I mean he's gone above and beyond his own success and gift and wealth to promote this game in the right way so I'd love him to get a ring to I think a lot of people would I think so too but I just he needs to relax though he gets so it's just like oh man let go a little bit I want to just go give him a big hug you said something before which made me exclaim
on that which was that you don't want your work to become such a like the gift of what you do that normally brings you Joy to be a crutch to be another part of the distraction Med yeah that's huge so what did you do instead well it was funny um you know I I I didn't write a single thing until I felt like I wanted to open my mouth and there was a long period there where I
didn't want to open my mouth I just wanted to listen um and I had been a meditator before that but I really got into meditating I had to learn um I was working with this guy in New York City who one of the things that he said that really struck me was that um um you know the the gateway to Awakening is learning to hold an emotion and there were emotions that I was holding or that I
was not holding that were somewhere in my body that go all the way back and we all have it we all have a story we've told ourselves since we were little about who we are a c and I had to like figure out a way to work work my way through all of it and come out the other side and in the process of all that um I adopted Wyatt and I wrote a song three months after he was born from a New York
Times um story about the real estate market and the title was God bless this mess it was 6:30 in the morning and I just fed Wyatt and I opened up the paper and I see this God bless this mess and I started writing and then I wrote The Detour record and it felt like oh this is this is enjoyable and I don't have to do this well I don't have to do it it's
such an important realization especially when you're swept up in this kind of undertoe yeah of business and crowds and there's a moment in this documentary I always look for those moments that like make me reel a little bit or laugh or laugh ironically yeah just unprovoked little nods of like even if I'm on my own and one of the ones that did and there's a few in this dark one of the
ones that really made me chuckle to myself was like do you ever think you'll stop touring and you go not until I'm dead and everyone goes yeah and I just cracked up man I was like and there's the problem right we never see the signs I mean you're basically crying for help and it's trl's like you're the best Sher yes exactly keep going keep going till you die exactly exactly and and that is
exactly that is that rabbit hole man you know I I I at which point I was diagnosed I had I had gone through a relationship with Lance U before that I had turned 40 when everybody on the radio was like 17 and um and I kept saying okay as soon as I get off the rad I'm going to make a record that way I can take some time off couldn't finish the record couldn't take
time off I mean it just gets to be this thing where I got to make a record I got it so that I can tour but I first I want to take some time off but I can't do that until I make a record that's why I call the undertoe cuz you don't know where's up and where's down yeah yeah you just it's thrashy as but usually life will hand you your ass in a paper cup and that is exactly like the day I got
diagnosed I was like oh okay all right you don't have to hit me over the head I get it and so how how hard was it to hold on to it it's one thing to get it it's another thing to continue with that learning and not become because you had 40 years becoming the Cheryl you were before that yeah I didn't I mean at the at the end of the day I didn't really love it or enjoy it the way I I thought
I would you know what I mean and making the documentary was funny because I I have these Vivid memories of laying under our piano you know we grew up with a great big stereo in the living room and had all the albums and I had all uh all the magazines and I would pour over the album notes and I just had this Vision about what was going to look like what was going to feel like you know and
it's all dreamy it's all like Stevie Nicks you know I just you know every time I would think of myself I had a a wind machine on you know I was like flowy and it's going to be beautiful and I'm going to love it and and there were some incredible moments but after a while it's it felt like work you know it felt like what am I doing and where am I in this thing once the transition
happened it's not ever felt the same again it's felt so much more intact and so I'm so much less attached to it and I enjoy it so much more which is all we can ask for um because it's a human experience at the end of the day right yeah it's it's great that we have these songs and wow what a what a collection of songs like in case you didn't know or maybe you did
you still needed reminding that there it's just head after head after head after head and my question is like before we even go back to the first run of hits which has to be acknowledged to some degree when you were getting into album Number Four when you're getting into come on come on and it's like you're still on that 100 foot wave like does it ever get to a point where you're
thinking you know I would I'm grateful for the song and I'm grateful for the fact that everybody loves it but am I ever going to just not be this like the pressure and the Hits and The that record was the the giant nightmare it I I came off the road after the third record and um that was the record I said I'm just going to make a record pretty quick and then I take some time off um I moved to
New York City um I'd been engaged I moved to New York City um made the glob sessions toured that it was great and then came home from that and bought a house and La moved my studio into the living room like set it up in the living room and then I got to where I just didn't even want to go home cuz it was like this throbbing organism you know saying you got to go to work you know
and you know months went by and I couldn't finish anything and um by the time I finished that record I'd spent a million and a half I had gone through like every idea couldn't finish anything and then Britney Spears comes on the scene and Christinia Aguilera I'm turning 40 I haven't had kids yet and I was just like holy crap what what am I doing um and I I think I talked about in
the documentary how I ran into Chrissy hunt and she's like you got you know this isn't your life this is your work take time off and so I did and I threw myself a giant 40th birthday party which of course nobody back then had cell phones and Amy and her crew it was a real Ruckus well we used to have parties at my house I mean my house was the party house like we had a party for the
Rolling Stones and uh you know and this was in that day and age where it was like Warren batty and Maran faithful and mini driver and Gwyneth and Robert dley Jr and um sea Pinn and um Jack Nicholson and Rick Rubin and Heidi fce I mean just like a crazy managerie yeah this is good celebrity really you know it's like uh you don't know who's going to turn up John travol and um Amy's like we do you
have any pictures I'm like no hell no nobody had cell phones back then and so I'm turning 40 I throw this giant party at the lray and invite all these people to come up and sit in you know Bonnie R sat in Ben Harbor sat in um I think Jim Carrey sat in I mean it was just like freefor all and then we went over to Dominics and that went on and 40 was the
most fantastic year and soak up the sun came out and the first cut as the deepest came out and it was like oh I can do this I can do this yeah yeah so it was like it never happened yeah you know it was like the door after after a nightmare renovation they tell you you open the door and you're like ah do it all again what the last four years bottomless pit of disaster had a monster
baby yeah no I might do it again you know it's crazy yeah yeah but after that it it I feel like that's when you started to make the decision like or whether you made it or was made for you I need to recalibrate this because before that I can't even put the years in order but there was a lot of years of a lot of work a lot of hits a lot of you you became a one word you stopped being
Cheryl Crow you became Cheryl when you become a one word your name sort of stops being yours in a way like what is your relationship like with your name when people scream it at you from the street all the time and it's just like I didn't sort of you know what I mean like ISM thing I mean it's it's um for somebody like me who you know I'm from a really small town I wanted to be great I
didn't want to famous wasn't like the end all goal I just wanted to be great and I don't know what that was supposed to look like but when you become famous it's a it does a number on you you know it's like it's so much fun to be invited to the party but all you can think about is what if I don't get invited to the next one you know or um you know what happens when I stop getting invited to
the party and um it does a number you know it definitely a self worth issue right It ultimately replaces your sense of selfworth with the worth that other people apply to your ID exactly yeah which is one of the reasons I'm just like if I had to like deal with daily social media and seeing what people had to say I I've not read a review or an article since my second record because I
got my feelings hurt so badly and I just went this isn't normal you know it's not normal to read people's opinions when you've done your best I mean I can't go back and change anything I did the best I could and I thought you know what I'm not going to read anything else um but it definitely does a number and for me um I did start to lose it and I did wind
up feeling like I wasn't sure who I was anymore I couldn't figure out how to get out from under all of it the weight of it yeah because every night this is the other thing there's a moment when you're singing soak up the sun and it's the perspective of the crowd the camera and the audio track is in the crowd so you can barely hear you all you can hear is us screaming this song back at you and
what struck me about it is this Timeless image of fans giving everything to the artist for the as a trade for the song in the first place it felt heavy to me me it was weird it was like if you're not in the mood and my whole night hard-earned money is relying on this being an existential experience that's a huge burden I'm really deep in this conversation because I'm trying to reset the balance one
conversation at a time about what the expectation is between us and you so there's a there's a pre-existing thing too that goes along with that like for me it isn't even just about I mean I want my fans to be happy I'm like a people pleaser right so my the story I told myself from the earliest of age is if I did everything right that I would be loved that's what you do you make
good grades you are you know you try not to get in trouble and then your parents love you and I think there a lot this is like py 101 I think a lot of people who wind up being famous who put themselves out there um are are seeking love and adoration and acceptance and approval um so it's it's heavy when you are standing on stage and you don't feel like being there and yet I'm taking care
I'm not just taking care of the band I'm actually or my image I'm taking care of all the people that are out there who want to be H you know they want to enjoy themselves caretaking to ride yes and it it after a while I mean just even energetically and when I was going through breast cancer treatment this buddy of mine that I was talking about he said just notice energetically how
exhausting it is to have people projecting their energy at you even you know even wishing you well there'll be people you've never met in your life that are going to be praying for you there going to be people you've never met in your whole life that don't like you for some reason they've decided that you're this or you're that and you're getting what you deserve but all
of that is energy you know you stand in front of 50,000 people or even 300 people and you're playing it's all energy oh let me tell you mortality drives people crazy that's why we go crazy when our parents die and all that stuff it's lot of fear you're faced with it yourself yeah friend of mine said to me once I might have said this to you last time I can't remember but it's a good
reminder if I did when I was going to make one of those calls to someone who's going through something and he said ah I don't know if it's the time he said you know sometimes you just got to remember you got to be thoughtful with your thoughtfulness M and people will just forget that that's a good thing to remember you know what I mean yeah it's it it's you know no matter what you're
going through um you know we all experience the same emotions they just are wrapped up in different experiences from Fear to sadness and grief and all that stuff and death is definitely that's a heavy number and when you get diagnosed with something then everybody around them starts reassessing and it's all kind of revolving around your experience and I think one of the things
that for me as I've gotten older I'm making more sense out of life and life is hard to make sense of and part of how's that going then I know it's hard but there's so there is so much to this idea of energy you know whether people think it's woo woo or not we're all so connected I mean I I'm sure everybody that is in this room and that's listening can understand how in
The Quiet Moments how you can feel terrible for the people that are going through what they're going through in Ukraine even though that's not our experience but we can understand it we have the ability to be empathetic um but it also plays into what's happening here I mean we're watching things change in this country that are very frightening it is maddening it is it is maddening feel
like we can be the same species on this Earth at the same time yeah in a country like this with give or take a layer like like a sliding scale a ladder the same Democratic capitalist principles of of opportunity and be so opposed like I don't even know you like how can we share the same planet and I just cannot understand your thinking to the point where I'm like feel like we're on two
different planets it started to blow my mind so much when I felt the tension in my family and we're close at family but just politically the chasm that it's driven into all of our well to most of our families not being able to sit around a table and be able to discuss topics u i mean there are certain things now that are just off limits just to preserve the peace yes
just to preserve the peace and to still have a relationship and that is real unconditional love when you're willing to sh something that needs to be talked about because you know if you don't it could be curtains yeah and we we had some of those curtains conversations and we do love each other enough but you know some I do feel like there's a little bit of residue of damage you know
and um I wound up revisiting the New Earth by eer tol which is a great book I tried to read it years ago um and I did read most of it but it didn't mean as much to me so I started listening to it and it blew my mind it made see it made everything seem extremely simple to understand that doesn't mean it's changeable right now but um you know where we're
at in in this moment in our Evolution our Humanity or or our non- Evolution I I I think it is it's all a soul thing it's all we energetically we're all so connected and um how you feel is going to it's going to overlap over on to me and how I feel is going to do the same for you it's all chemistry it's all it's all just a big swirl and when it all makes sense and normally sad
to admit it's during times of real tragedy that brings the world together where we ignore our differences for a brief moment there's some kind of brilliant Hue that occurs at that time where it all just the color is just warm and beautiful even if it's sad the rest of it it's hard to make you know any kind of sense of it at all and uh I hope that this is the thrash that leads to a better place I
hope that this is one of those moments because bringing it back to the documentary what it really brought home for me was how much strength you've had to show even at times when you haven't been strong in order to do right you talk about people pleasing like at the highest level to do right by the people that are looking to you to lead because the position you're in what the songs
mean who you are the year you are born in and the time you're successful and to be at a point now where you've you've reh you've reshift your priorities into something that gives you different kind of joy and still to take a step back with some altitude and see that the world is still burning in some of these places I makes me sad I kind of imagine how it
makes you feel yeah I mean I think you know that conversation about energy and all that stuff and I mentioned how getting older you have sort of an an Edgar Mitchell view you know that that view as an astronaut looking back on planet Earth and you can't fix everything and for me it it for a very long time there it was very personal to me um that we weren't that we don't do more for
each other and that we don't show each other more compassion or empathy or whatever um and that the world feels and seems harsher even just social media and um and the way we agree or disagree or just all of it and viewing that through the lens of being a mom to to Young boys even I mean even raising Boys in this moment where music is something that I police which is such a weird thing I
mean I police what my kids listen to isn't that sick and I'm a musician I mean I'm just like what am I doing but you know you tell I signed up to be the protector of their innocence and I don't want to have to explain what WAP you know I'm just saying like your boys must have an auntie who plays that my older one is 15 now um uh and I'm sure he's seen a lot more
than I know about I'm in fact I'm very positive um but he's gotten over the fact that he doesn't have social media um I mean he sees plenty of stuff that he wants to see I'm sure he goes around you know but I do you know I look at their phones and stuff but this is a it's a microcosm you know and I hope that people if they watch the doc documentary will see that everything feels so monumentally
challenging when you're going through it but at a certain point you are like an astronaut kind of having an overview and looking at it and going it's all going to be okay you know it's all going to be okay that's like your friend Joe Walsh said right when he when he paraphrased the great story the line that the the philosopher that said you know the the the great the great Narrative of life
right that when you're in the middle of it it just you don't know where what's up or what's down or what's left or what's right but at the end of it is perfect script script of a perfect film yeah you know beginning and an end yeah these life story that we live you and that to me that's the promise and that's also the glory and the you know you live through it and man you feel deeper and
you see clearer and you experience Joy um everything isn't so black and white you know and you can enjoy you know the being in the gray and not knowing everything but just you know when um when you were talking about the enormous success of Tuesday night music club and then of course this you I mean you were one of the first people to effectively be cancelled in in a way yeah
you found yourself in a situation which happens in everyday life to everybody but a lot of cameras a lot of people and then a lot of attention a lot of success a lot of this it's just he like wow okay that's kind of B and there's a moment when you're when you're sort of going through that time and you get visibly emotional during the recounting of that story what were
you ultimately grieving at that moment in time were you still sad for the situation were you thinking about the younger s and what you were going through and how you just wish you could have been there for yourself as well was it a lot of that because it was a long time ago but clearly it still resonates yeah I mean you're talking about the John O'Brien suicide um yeah I
mean I think it's really the first time I've ever told my side you know I've been very been very quiet about it I've not ever stood up and defended um myself against the claims that were made and it was the first out of respect out of respect yes you know I um I am I mean I'm a really sensitive person and I I value family and like I said in the documentary John was somebody's son I know that it was not my
fault but I think it was the Betrayal and also the disappointment and wow this incredible Union that I had with these people that were friends um you know I I wasn't perfect I got really kind of uh I was a dear in headlights on on the Letterman show and just to watch it all swirl into this really dark place to actually talk about it for the first time was overwhelming and it brought up all kinds
of old you know you know to revisit it and to actually experience it to put myself back in my body and actually feel that um I mean the grief over it the grief and the anger you know uh the sadness the all that stuff that goes along with it um I didn't know when we did the hours and hours and hours and days of hours um of interviewing what would actually make
the documentary um but I also didn't want it to be a documentary of all Feelgood I mean I've had an incredible 35 years of or 40 Years of touring of playing music of backing up people of doing my own stuff and there have been some incredible moments but the moments that were more defining for me were the ones where I had to like face myself and regroup and redefine and refine and
that was definitely one of them and it was early on and it it it changed the way I saw myself in the universe of what I was doing um and it changed how I felt about the business and being could it not how could it not being a young female Rising Superstar that's been collaborating with a group of men MH and then to be caught off guard and have a personality trait that
requires you to like Crouch at the bar out of respect and just let this settle which by the way I can relate to that how does it not darken the Horizon somewhat it definitely changed me and when I it's funny cuz when I look at the artwork like Tu music Club it's like girl in a jean shirt no makeup then you go to like not a worry in the world yeah then you go to Cheryl Crow and I look
like goth you know and I was like uh-uh I'm not going to let the world in I'm not going to be girl next door I'm not going to listen to people saying I did write my own record that a yeah it was the End of the Innocence for me it really was yeah well you know in a way as sad as that is it has to happen in everyone's life at some point can no longer play the children's game
as the movie says you know so you know there comes that maturity and that ability to control your narrative but you know the thing is if you're a person that wants everybody to be happy with you and you want everyone to love you because you always do the right thing mhm um when it doesn't go down that way then you feel like you've been sat in timeout and you're in trouble and you're
the bad kid and that you know it just plays into all those I mean life is literally one long therapy session you know it's what you do it it that matters the most it's truth it's truth it's and it's also most of what we learn is on a playground which means we're not emotionally mature as a species to truly be able to deal with other people's trauma right because we either Run for
the hills and play with another group of kids or we kick them even harder yes you know it's all it's all there in those in those really formative years that they force us onto a concrete schoolyard for eight hours with no real guidance I know it's literally like a zoo it's a zoo and it's survival of the fittest and walk into the real world and we're like I know everything I need to know and
you're like no man yeah it's a show yeah this is a story about friendship as well and aside from his satorial elegance and dashing Elder handsomeness your manager in you is it's a beautiful lesson and choose your people carefully because the moments when he supports you and you support each other when you really need it I have been doing this a long time and I have heard
stories from artists way after the fact that I should have been better taken care of wrapped up what I needed to be taken off the road and by the way those are those are the good those are the good times I get to hear those stories there are people who don't even make it yeah and I I'm philosophical about these things I mean that's another part of getting older I'm very philosophical
about the people in my life because um the people that were there in the beginning are still here and I think um there was that goofy book it basically throughout the idea that you come into to life and you you share every life with the same people right in different in in different incarnations or whatever however it worked out you know scooter and I are Kindred Spirits we're
like family members we're like an old married couple you know um Pam who works with scooter has been there from the very beginning I mean my tour manager has been there I mean everybody has been there long enough that I'll have to have them killed if they leave cuz they know where all the dead bodies are but um you know it's it has been um I mean it's been a source of strength and a source
of support and we've been that for each other all of us we've all gone through really hard personal trials and we've all been there for each other and that to me is that's more important to me than any Grammy or any um any award any high-profile anything having people around you that know you and that are honest with you and tell you that your does stink um I mean mine doesn't
stink very often I'm just saying but um anyway yeah that's four bmbs in a conversation that's um it's getting up upwards towards the record but he is he is the star of the show definitely but isn't it just relationships at the end of the day it is isn't it what it's all about it is I mean at the end of the day it's it's just all about don't you get more of a kick out of hanging out with
Keith Ridgid and you do making an acceptance speech at an awards show I mean isn't that me honestly it's just yeah I mean that's the club you want to be in right that's the club you want to be in and you you know you have to also like give it up for those moments like you got to like go did that just happen and look at my life and I got like people that I love that I've known since
I was you know young uh it's it's tremendous you know at what point do you think it could have taken a different turn thinking back on it now now that we're doing this rare reflection and next time we speak will be about hopefully a new record but what was the moment that you feel this story this documentary would have would have come out very differently if been made at all
yeah well I mean there's so many of those along the way I mean I could have married the first guy I was engaged to and stayed a school teacher and had kids um I could have come home from the Michael Jackson tour after that year of going through some real uh Tri and tribulation by fire huh yeah and just gone home um especially after hearing so many people say we can't sign you you're
not Madonna oh back I mean that's what that's what you know 20t from startom is about like you think it's going to be the fast pass and your talent's going to be on display every night but we actually just like you there we like you support unless you want to do what everybody else is doing right now at Radio then we'll take what you've done and use that as a springing board if you
'll just do what Paul Abdul is doing and that just wasn't my jam so so that was that would have been a game changer I mean there was a moment where my mom flew out and said you have to get out of bed you know you're 6 months and you've not left the apartment and it's time for you to get back to the living and did it feel like six months did it feel like six years did it feel
like six minutes looking back on it um it felt like a really long time I mean there was a moment where you know I'm too I'm too thoughtful to ever think about committing suicide I mean I didn't want anybody to be hurt but I also didn't want to wake up um that's real hopelessness huh it was real hopelessness but you know I got to say you're talking about relationships having a family having
people I mean if your family is one person then you have a family you know and um just having mom show up up at my door and say I know you don't want me here but you're going to get up and you're going to put one foot in front of the other and going to get yourself help and that you know um that could have been a moment I've had a lot of moments along the way I don't know I'm going to
start crying I don't know why everything is gone the way it's gone I'm just lucky well yeah we all are we all are we just got to acknowledge it but um just to be here but also I don't know I think you're super Fearless no thank you I really do I I I don't think you can write these songs and push through some of these challenges you've been through and and
find this kind of be focused on energy and be focused on chemistry and be searching for something that's kind of deeper than what you've already seen because you've seen it all you've seen a lot of sides of life and a lot of and you've seen some real Highs but also you know what it is to your point to be the lowest of the low right so what is so I guess I'm looking at you and I'm like
all right what ises Cheryl Crow think it's all about and it sounds to me like you think it's all about going beyond all of that that that's not the metric of value that none of that is what it's all about it's actually something that we're still searching for is that fair to say I think that's very fair to say you know I I think about my little both my boys I had within hours of their
birth and I I can remember especially with Wyatt going man he already knows everything I just got to figure out some some way not to unknow it for him I don't want to imprint on him because I don't know everything yet and isn't that what it is we're just searching to really know who we we authentically are and how to find joy and acceptance in that I can't wait for this next record
you know because I mean who tells their first life story and still has such a long road to run and so much to do and so much to write about should you want to that's like wow it's perfect timing your team were right it's the perfect timing to kind of put that to one side well I have to say I've never felt more inspired to write um you know this song forever whether people
like it or not it's my favorite song we've ever written Jeff and I and I feel like every time I walk in the studio I have that that excitement about walking out later and having something that has never been written before and that to me is I mean that's the God thing that's the you know how do we Define inspiration or I don't know that's what magic is that's what magic is man it is