I just want to be clear here I'm trying to do a docket and we have to put the kabash on this Insanity of the soap opera that is becoming opening eye saxs because every week it's three four five stories have you seen what's happened this week yeah of course got to catch the audience up here let's catch the audience up on what's happened
here this week on General AI hospital is Sam alman's job security and Jeopardy whose data was stolen this time what did y see why isn't he talking about it and with our special guest will our special guest get her revenge General AI Hospital brought to you by the drama queens at open air wow that who made that that was great did you make that yeah that was me 10
out of 10 that was my idea but Nick's and lon's execution so shout out to calanis you finally landed the the plane broken clock's right twice a day took four years that was awesome broken clock is right twice a day the Jason that's my let your winners ride rman D and instead we open source it to the fans and they've just gone crazy with [Music]
it but seriously there was a big drama sax I don't know if you saw this but uh like you couldn't have missed it with the scarjo so they made an emergency they had an emergency meeting got all the developers together and they've reset they took Scarlett Johansson out and they got a new person I think arguably better I'm freeberg I'm curious your
take on this it's a better hey gbd how's it going good good yeah good week what's going on I'm doing fine uh I'm going to be at father real soon and I think I can have you help with some dad jokes um I'm going to tell you a joke and you tell me if it passes as a dad joke I've never done that before all right what do you call a giant pile of
kittens give it to me a m no didn't quite land all right there it is folks if you want you can switch to Saxy poo so just go into open they stole my voice now yeah they stole yours go into open ai go to voices and then just pick Saxy poo it's right there between Putin and Tucker Putin Saxy F Tucker you can find all your favorite Maga guests on
the number one Maga program Allin podcast here we go all right we're off to a strong start here everybody's in a good mood Let's uh let's keep the good times rolling here and let's go over the scarjo Saga to recap if you're living under a rock this week it came out that open AI specifically Sam had contacted Scarlett Johansson multiple times about
lending her voice for for one of open ai's chat box obviously you know she famously was the voice Samantha in the awesome film her and according to scarjo Alman told her she could quote bridge the gap between tech companies and creatives and help consumers to feel comfortable with the seismic shift concerning humans and Ai and that her
voice quote would be comforting to people although she declined the offer open AI released a chatot named Sky which had a similar voice to scarjo according to scarjo her friends and family thought the voice was her she released a statement yada yada on May 13th the day open AI launched chat GPT 40 Omni which we talked about last week
Alman tweeted her a reference to the film obviously now scarjo is threatening legal action against openi Alman put out a statement apologizing and saying the voice was never intended to resemble hers his quotee we're sorry to miss Jo Johansson that we didn't communicate better open I show Documents To The Washington Post that confirm the voice
was provided by a different actress who is anonymous post reporters also spoke to the unnamed actress's agent who confirmed the story I guess sax you sent us a comparison clip maybe we start there and see what we think yeah do do you guys think they sound the same I can understand and generate humanlike text pretty well it really depends on what
you're looking for in an assistant what specific tasks when I was like oh sexuality like like it was like open my eyes to like some other thing Samantha they where'd you get that name from I gave it to myself actually what do you think I think it sounds pretty darn similar dead on I mean I don't know if it's dead on it honestly it sounds
like a digitally altered version of her voice that's what it sounds like they didn't get it perfect right got it 0% it sounds like it was her voice but then they changed it so either that or they hired a voice actor who sounds like her and that's what the company has said is that they hired a voice actor but they won't tell us who the voice actor is they said
because of privacy concerns which doesn't quite make sense to me because when you hire an actor they want the credit you know yeah so get more work the company could just clear this whole thing up by saying exactly who the voice actor is and why wouldn't the voice actor want that you know she doesn't exist back to she was the General open
AI wait they made this actress up I mean she doesn't exist of course it's a digitally altered version of scarjo and they got caught Okay cookie jar this is why Sam's call to Scarlet's agents or her two days before they launched is such a damning piece of evidence because it sounds like he's trying to shut the barn door on something they've already done right
they've got this demo ready they're going to launch it in two days they're realizing maybe they don't have the rights to use her voice so you have to contact her to get those rights but anyone who knows anything about Hollywood knows you're not going to be able to make a deal with a major star to use their name and likeness in two days it's
impossible so this seems like a really crazy thing to do I mean I think the mere fact that he contacted them and then tweet twed out her which shows that Scarlet was on the brain those are really damning pieces of evidence I think in this lawsuit and it I think it's going to feed into our case I think look here's the thing this company is
going to go down in the history books in one part because the technical inventions that they've created are just next level and frankly created an entire industry and I think they deserve a ton of credit for that but they're also going to be written in the history books for two other things that are probably less aspirational I think the first is that
there's just all kinds of dust ups and unnecessary drama that just seem to kick around every few weeks or months and then the second is the sheer Quantum of value capture that the employees have seen through secondaries before a fully functional business has been really created and so I think it explains why folks circle the wagons consistently
it's a very I think it's a very rational organization they're technically ahead of everybody else a lot of people want to put in money at you know Crazy Prices a bunch of that value is transferred immediately to the employees who circle the wagons and do what's necessary to keep the Taps flowing and I think that that explains the whole thing and and I
think that that explains many Silicon Valley companies quite honestly cirle the wagons defend the company sell your shares in secondary at 90 billion to thrive or whoever what would your take freedberg on all of this craziness and drama I think what we will see over time is that rather then have the ability to sue for their
likeness a lot of AI that is like a celebrity the value of it will arise from the celebrity's endorsement not actually using the celebrities features so without the endorsement I know everyone kind of wants to point to this idea of likeness but I think that there's something about the authentic aspect of having the celebrity actually endorse and provide
their their signature their stamp on it restaurants are a good example some celebrity chef says I was involved in making this menu that's a lot different than mimicking the celebrity Chef's menu from his restaurant putting his or her name and brand on it there's a bunch of videos on YouTube now I don't know if you guys ever you guys probably don't
watch these but I love watching these videos where like music producers make tracks and how they do it and so many of these producers now are using AI tools tools taking samples off of old records or other tracks and then telling the AI make something that sounds like this or looks like this but isn't like this and so there's enough of a transformation
happening that it isn't a direct likeness and then they're able to create entire vocal tracks without needing a singer or without needing the celebrity singer so you're in the you're in the much ad do about nothing camp on this scard yeah I'm in I'm in the like like the content itself I think is probably less like compelling oh go go after her
because the voice sound the but I do think that there's this element of like what if you could then say Hey you know Britney Spears actually lent her voice to this track so do you think she if she sues open a ey do you think it should just get thrown out it's not a real case no I think there's probably gonna be a lot of Discovery to sax this
point that's going to show that they probably did juicy no no no I'm not I'm not saying that I'm saying I'm asking you more that yeah even if they find it your point is it shouldn't matter my point is do you think that it should be thrown up well I don't know I mean hold on let's say you're a movie and you know you can't get Scarlet jansson for it and so
you tell the casting director get me a Scarlet jansson type I think you can do that okay obviously you can't you can't use her name you can't use her likeness but you could hire a different actor who might look or sound like Scarlet jansson if the company actually did that and they did it nine months ago this is what the statement they put out I think
they've got a decent defense yeah but because they may I don't know if we believe that I mean again why why don't you just put out the name of the actual actor that voice actor that you used and there's a very simple test here if the person if there's confusion amongst the public which is what scarjo put in her letter and that was a legally written
deafly written letter to set up a huge settlement because she said the morning this came out all of my friends said oh my God congratulations on your chaty pale this is great the public being confused is the key issue here and there's something called the right to publicity this is basically how celebr defend their rights it's happening all
the time to podcasters by the way there was a company that put me in their ads based on something I said in a show and then they put ads against it and huberman's been having this happen Joe Rog it's happening to me right now I I'm in the middle of this crazy thing with Facebook and they've been doing a very good job the team of meta Ashley thank
you but hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of automated accounts pretending to be me selling all kinds of random stuff it's predominantly on WhatsApp and Facebook and meta and I don't what to do because I we work together with them we shut it down I've actually had to reactivate my Facebook and Instagram accounts which were
dormant so that we could actually have them be verified so that then it's easier to shut them down but it is an impossible task when somebody's impersonating you yeah to fight it at least in my experience it's been a month and we it's just like every hundred we take down another thousand both in both of those cases you guys have your exact
image of you being shown to sell to sell stuff I think that in this Cas it's also unique to scarjo because she was the voice from her there is no like if this were like a voice sort of like Cameron Diaz or sort of like Julia Roberts it wouldn't be as big a deal because it would certainly got some differences to it but it's because they're trying to
mimic the movie her well didn't didn't meta use Morgan Freeman when like Zuck created like an AI or something as a project do you guys remember that wasn't Morgan Freeman The Voice they paid for it and uh there's a company speechify I'm not an investor or anything like that but they have gwenneth paltro as a licensed voice to read your stuff so
they should just they should just license Gwyn voice obvious obvious like just whoever wants to get paid here's the opportunity if three people say no think about the fact that they're not trying to say this is this person's voice but they want to say like hey let's say you just can prompt the AI and say generate a voice that is sort of
like movies that are comfortable and calming to people to listen to and you know that that we've that that we think people will be comfortable and the AI generates something that's sounds like said this before but it's not deliberately trained on scar using a computer to probabilistically copy something is still copying something yes
come on guys let's not make this too complicated is the public confused is the only test you need for you what if there's two public actresses that both have similar voices and then they both claim hey you tried to make this sound like me what do you do in that case Jamal well which one did you call two days before the demo yeah exactly and
did the CEO tweet her I think your whole point about Discovery is what is going to get them in trouble in this case because they were clearly they were clearly trying to do an impersonation of her right yeah if they never reached out to Scarlet they could claim it's just a coincidence but they called her twice they called her some months before and
then two days before which indicates Panic judge Sachs give your verdict I'm starting a new spinoff show judge sa says guilty okay judge sa sentence now what's the sentence the sentence is that Scarlett Janson is going to end up owning more of this company than Sam Alman that's what to happen look they call they call her two days before why do you do that guilty
because you know you have a problem and you're trying to put the horse back in the bar now what they should have done is as soon as she says no you just change the voice completely or you get a fixer get Michael Cohen in there and get a settlement going get let's let's get some uh fixer in there to fix it uh okay listen enough with open AI oh wait
there's more Dr geez it's ruining the docket I guess we have to talk about the next drama from a open AI this week former employees sign an agreement that they're forbidden forever from criticizing the company or even acknowledging that the NDA exists if a departing employee declines to sign the document or if they violate it they can
lose all vested Equity they earn during their time at the company in practice uh this means ex employees have to choose between giving up millions of dollars they've already earned or agreeing not to criticize the company in perpetuity a lot of details here we'll go to you yeah well you can see why they wrote that in there that makes sense if
you think hold on a second if an employee can leave with you know a random copy of like some old weights as a starting point to rebuild the model that could be very valuable or there's yeah yeah but well there's all kinds of like kind of Quasi confidential information or knowledge or knowhow that you leave a place like that with so I could see why there was a justification
to be very heavy-handed about it but again the question isn't whether you're allowed to be heavy-handed you are the question is why backtrack and then offis skade and lie after you get caught right what what do they say they claim it's an accident once they get caught with their hand in the cookie jar which like you set your mouth is just a heavy-handed
agreement it's in the company's interest to do this yeah they just say was an accident just like the Scarlet thing is an accident or a coincidence it's just getting hard to believe just own it and say you know what guys this is a really valuable company there's a ton of very valuable trade secret know-ow IP confidential information and we're going
to be extremely litigious on the offense and protect it because our and it's correlated to the importance of the company in the ecosystem you could have said that and people could have been upset but they would have understood here's what Sam Alman said there was a provision about potential Equity cancellation in our previous exit docs
although we never clawed anything back it should never have been something we had in any documents or communication this is on me and one of the few times I've genuinely been embarrassed running open eye I did not know this was happening and I should have if any former employee who signed one of these old agreements is worried about it they can contact me
and we'll fix that too very sorry about this so he's very very s sorry it's starting to be like BP Oil this company like they're just so sorry about everything here's the question is these are form documents at the end of the day and form documents don't write themselves lawyers write them and when you get a novel change in one of these
documents somebody thought that through and thought it' be a good idea and put it in there right and like jamas said there is a way to potentially defend that it's not like these Provisions don't exist it's just a novel application to try and CLA back someone's already vested Equity from a company well that is onal of these things yeah that is not exactly standard
sometimes no that's completely nonstandard I'm just saying that these Provisions exist in other context and their application as it as a clawback of vested employee Equity is something that I don't think any of us have heard before so I haven't yeah yeah exactly so my point is just this didn't happen as an accident somebody made a strategic
business decision to do this because they thought it'd be in the company's interest yeah so just en lments terms the clawback means you had 10 million in equity you earned 75 %'s got 7.5 million in equity there you say something disparaging about the company they can take it back from you once you leave a company and you vested
Equity you don't lose it I mean as long as you you have some period in which to uh exercise your option if it's an option rather than stock but other than that I've never heard of a situation where employees can lose their vested Equity even in a situation sax we've seen this where somebody commits fraud they still get their equity and then it's up to the company to sue them
for fraud separately right like we've seen of that I mean I guess that's right like committing a crime look I think the question here is is it credible that they keep having these accidents and coincidences what does Judge sack say judge sack says there's one too many coincidences you know look I think like jamas said you could have just owned
this and said yeah that this is a defended in the way he said and said but you know what was too aggressive and we pulled it back I think the thing is look if you if you think about the pendulum of culture in Silicon Valley we used to have a very tough culture of founder-led businesses where there was extremely high expectations and if you
transgressed it was very punitive and then the pendulum swung in the all the way to the other opposite end where you had this like codling daycare type approach that existed for like the last 15 or 20 years and probably what open AI is is an example of a company that needs to be run a little bit more like the former but stuck with a bunch of people
that still pull it towards to be the ladder and that's the cultural tension that they're going to have to sort out because in order to be this incredible Bastion of like AGI and Innovation I suspect that it's going to look more like a three-letter agency in terms of security and protocols in the next 5 or 10 years than it is going to look like
the Google Plex and I think they just need to own that and this is probably a little bit of an insight into that tension and they're going to have to go in more in that direction I think it's a good insight you're not going to be allowed to build these incredibly crazy world beating Technologies where people are running around in an eight-seater
bicycle just not going to work guys and and by the way I mean because it is such an industry-leading company I think we could end up with some very bad fair use precedents or laws because Scarlett duranon is so sympathetic as a plan if compared to open Ai and it's you know unless they show us some discovery that proves that they
really did hire the voice actor and all the rest of it I mean this could lead to some very bad precedents for the industry around fair use well and here we go I think the Microsoft will pay the speeding ticket and we'll just all move on but freeberg my God can you imagine like being two or three phds and you know machine learning or whatever you
study your whole life you're pursuing General Ai and like people are coming up to your desk and creating all this drama and nonsense and you're in the middle of a soap opera while you're trying to create the technology that creates super intelligence it's nuts yeah I find it annoying too just listening to it okay well then in that
case we will move on from open AI up sorry there's one more drama going on it's not just drama I mean it's there's now a lawsuit I think I think it's a very interesting case the fair use case is interesting for sure I think it's a legitimately interesting case that's if it goes all the way it's if it goes the distance it's going to create some
really interesting precedents well I mean you I'm say yeah these the what happens in these content cases is they get settled almost every single time so the case law doesn't get cified they just get settled out of court if you go look at all the fair use cases they they almost never go to the mat and so this one will just be settled it'll just be a question think I
think the other the interesting part of the other story is that the reason all this stuff came out about the equity Club acts was because the safety team quit and it got leaked during that process so this is the third dramatic story of the week that we that one I think begs a little bit more of a so let me question yeah two heads of open AI
super alignment team left the company last week the day after GPT 40 launched Ilia announced he was leaving the company he was their Chief scientist a few hours later his partner on the alignment team uh Yan Leica also announced he was resigning in a later thread Leica explained that he left due to quote safety culture and processes
have taken a backseat to shiny products okay there's a little bit of disparagement uh to our former point about non- disparages n and ndas so a open AI lost both its heads of AI alignment one day after it launched that new product is that a coincidence that's interesting if you don't know what super alignment is it's basically making sure that the software
doesn't go Terminator what are your thoughts on this freedberg I don't know I mean it could be some bad bureaucracy bad politicking not being listened to but I think the real interesting question is who's G to ask these guys what's really going on from a technology perspective and what is that going to reveal because these clearly
are on the frontier of model development and the performance of models and so my guess is there are certain regulatory people who are going to have interest in the fact that this team just left they're going to make a phone call they're going to ask this team to come in and have a conversation and they're going to start to ask a lot of questions
about what the state of technology is over there and I I suspect that some things are going to start to come out saaks it it was reported that Ilia was on the side of the nonprofit e slow down AI be cautious group when they fired Sam so what's your take on what's going on here with super alignment inside of open AI judge sax let's let's call this what it is a mass
resignation and we don't really know why I mean apparently they were promised something like 20% of the Computing resources of open Ai and they didn't get that I definitely read that somewhere and so that is part of it I think but we don't really know the whole story and you know when you look at this issue of the mass resignation and then
you look at the issue of the clawback of vested employee Equity you're like well wait a second maybe they felt like they needed that claw back in order to deter all these people who are leaving from spilling the beans about right whatever was upsetting them something clearly upset them right yeah that's why people are saying there's
this meme what did ilas see what did he see yeah and then like you said the board did fire him and the only explanation they provided was that he wasn't being candid which at the time we thought was an incredibly damning statement and we thought we'd get some explanation of it we never got any explanation whatsoever you know I thought that the board was being
incompetent because I thought that either they fired him overly hastily or they had reason to fire him but then they communicated poorly and you know it you add all these things up and it definitely seems like smoke Sam's a shooter we should just have him on the Pod to explain what I me'll clear everything up stop me if you heard this before Nvidia Nvidia
just smashed all expectations while reporting record profits and revenue the AI train continues on Wednesday Nidia reported earnings for the fiscal q1 Revenue was 26 billion up 18% quarter a quarter 260% year over year basically they quadrupled year-over year on billions of Revenue this chart is Bonkers we've never seen anything like this in the
history of Silicon Valley or Corporate America this is if somebody like literally was mining coal and then found a diamond and gold mined underneath it it's Bonkers what's happened here when you look at the revenue there the you know sort of slow growth or moderate growth Revenue that they experienced that was all because Nvidia was
primarily providing gpus for people playing video games or mining crypto and then what you see with this unbelievable six quarter run uh and five six quarter run is companies like Microsoft Google Tesla open AI Etc buying just billions and billions of dollars worth of Hardware I'll end on this and chathan get your take on it here's 2019 top
companies by market cap in the world obviously Microsoft Apple Amazon Google Burkshire Facebook Alibaba 10cent and then you get some of the you know incumbents and Legacy companies J&J Exxon and JP Morgan Visa way down on the list in 2019 number 84 was Nvidia today Nvidia is the third largest company by market cap behind Microsoft and Apple
and ahead of Google AKA alphabet and Saudi aramco shth what's your take on this will it continue and how do you conceptualize this level of growth on such a big number I mean I think it's a really really incredibly fun moment if you're inolved in anything AI related just because it shows the level of investment that invidious customers are making into
making this new reality available for everybody right so when you're spending effectively a 100 billion dollars a year on the capex of chips and then a couple hundred billion more on all the related infrastructure and then another couple hundred billion more on power you're talking about half a trillion to 3 of a trilon dollars a
year being spent to bring AI forward to the masses so I think that's the really positive take the other exciting thing is if you're on the other side of the Nvidia trade which is you're working on something that does what they do cheaper faster or better it's also really exciting because at some point the laws of capital kick in right we've talked
about this when you are over earning so massively the rational thing to do for other actors in the arena is to come and attack that margin and give it to people for slightly cheaper slightly faster slightly better so you can take share yes so I think what you're seeing and what you'll see even more now is this incentive for Silicon Valley who has
been really reticent to put money into chips really reticent to put money into Hardware they're going to get pulled into investing this space because there's no choice you you have a company that went from 100 billion in market cap to 25 trillion in four years it's just way too much value that that is there to then be leaked back you know the
interesting thing to remember during the PC Revolution which is really mostly the 90s right it ended in the late 90s I would say like 98 99 right before the Doom bubble took over Intel's Peak market cap was I think it got to about $200 billion and then there average growth rate from 1998 to today was negative 1.4% a year
right so it went from about 200 billion to about 130 odd billion and why it's not that intel was a worse company but it's that everything else caught up and the economic value went to things that sat above them in the stack then it went to Cisco for a while right then after Cisco it went to the browser companies for a little bit then it went to the app
companies then it went to the device companies then it went to the mobile companies so you see this natural tendency for Value to push up the stack over time so let me ask we've done step one which is now you've given all this value to in to Nvidia and now we're going to see it being reallocated so jamath who's in the arena trying stuff
some of these things working not working yeah so right now what you do is you speculatively bet on anything that kind of like quote unquote rhymes with Nvidia so AMD is ripping the companies that make HPM is ripping so all of that stuff the folks that make optical cables this Japanese company that I found that makes like the high bandwidth optical cables
ripping so every anything related to that ecosystem right now is at all-time Highs but at the same time what you find now is like every other day when you wake up and read the the trades in techland you find that there's a company that's gotten seated with to 50 million bucks to create a new chip right you're also starting to see folks that are
working a little bit above the stock and build better compilers right things that'll allow you to actually build once run in many different compute environments so all of this stuff is starting to happen at some point the spread trade will be that Nvidia loses share even though revenues keep compounding to these ups yeah death by a thousand startups all right SX I
guess one of the questions people are asking right now is have we ever seen a company at this scale and the impact it's having not just in technology which shth just pointed out beautifully but also it's having a huge impact on Wall Street on the stock market on finance well the the company that everyone Compares Nvidia to or asks the
question about whether a historical comparison should be made is Cisco so there's an article in modle fool saying is Nvidia doing to be the next Cisco there was one in morning star called Nvidia 2023 versus Cisco 1999 will history repeat itself the reason they're asking these questions is that if you go back to the doom boom in 1999 can pull
up the stock performance chart you can see that Cisco had this incredible run and if you overlay the stock price of Nvidia it seems to be following that same trajectory and what happened with Cisco is that when the crash came in 2000 Cisco stock lost a huge part of its value obviously Cisco is still around today and it's a valuable company but it
just hasn't ever regained the type of market cap it had the reason this happened is because Cisco got commoditized so to Chamas point the success and market cap of that company attracted a whole bunch of new entrance and they copied Cisco's products until they were total Commodities so the question is well that happened to Nvidia yeah and I think the difference here is
that at the end of the day Network equipment which Cisco produced was pretty easy pretty onedimensional pretty yeah pretty easy to data around yeah right whereas if you look at Nvidia it's the these uh GPU cores are really complicated to make and Jensen makes this point that the h100 for example has thousands of components and it weighs
like 70 pounds or something like that I mean like a giant oven I mean it's like a main frame it's not it's not just like a little chip so it's a much more complicated product to copy and then on top of that they're already in the R&D cycle for the next chip right whatever it's going to be the h200 or whatever it is and so as people try to catch up with
h100 they're going to be on to h200 so I think you can make the case that Nvidia has a much better moat than Cisco and just by the way on this Cisco comparison just to just finish the thought people were making this comparison six months ago and what's happened since then nvidia's had two blowout quarters and the competitors don't seem to be that
closer maybe a little bit closer but so you know look I think it's an open question so there's a counter here freeberg which is obviously if you follow the Cisco analogy one of the things that also sunk Cisco was once people had bought all that capacity there was no need there was no file size that was so great that it couldn't be
moved easily around the internet you know you make movies HD Super HD 2K 4K the B we've created too much bandwidth there was no use for it so I guess that that's a counterargument for maybe when if we build up too much capacity Nvidia also could not by competitors but just by the buildout being enough so what's your take on that counterargument and
then whatever other thought you have I think that the Cisco analogy it's a pretty different situation because Cisco evolved the business to become much more Enterprise Centric and they were able to to run an m&a process like we see with Enterprise software where they could acquire and roll up lots of different product companies and sell into their
Enterprise channel so do a lot of cross- selling Nvidia is not a super acquisitive business and it doesn't make as much sense because they're selling much more kind of infrastructure tools whereas Cisco moved really high up in the in the Enterprise stack they were selling stuff into Office Buildings they were selling software they did
Acquisitions to kind of fully integrate they had a very diverse set of products that were selling through an Enterprise Channel further up the value stack and a pretty distributed customer base no no serious concentration even though they did sell a lot into Data Centers they were also selling to Telos they were selling to Enterprises they were selling
to governments and so on if you look at nvidia's Revenue they did $26 billion of total revenue in the quarter 22 billion of which was Data Center and about 40% of that was from the top four hyperscalers so a full one-third of nvidia's Revenue in the quarter came from I believe it's Google Amazon Microsoft and meta and so between those
four businesses you know that those companies each have I believe at least over or close to hundred billion dollar of cash sitting on their balance sheet they can't find great places to invest that cash to grow revenue and so they've rationalized away the idea that they will make capex investments to build over the next 5 to 10 years and this is
where that money flows yeah we talked about that in a previous episode because there's no m&a to your Point's not gonna let you buy stuff or the UK is not gonna let you buy stuff so I think that they're going to have less maneuvering capability than Cisco had in the future and obvously there's this deep concentration risk which is going to be
deeply challenging I think Nvidia this is to build on Sox's point is going to get pulled into competing directly with the hyperscalers so if you were just selling chips you probably wouldn't but sax is right like these are these big bulky actual machines then all of a sudden you're like well why don't I just create my own physical plant and just
stack these things and create racks and racks of these machines and goe to AWS instead of selling to them it's not a far stretch especially because Nvidia actually has the software interface that everybody uses which is Cuda so I think it's it's likely that Nvidia goes on a full frontal assault against gcp and Amazon and Microsoft that's going to
really complicate the relationship that those folks have with each other but I think it's inevitable because you're get how do you defend it's kind of the Apple problem how do you defend an enormously large market cap you're forced to go into to businesses that are equally lucrative now if I look inside of compute and look at the adjacent
categories they're not going to all of a sudden start a competitor to Tik Tok right or a social network but if you look at the multi hundred billion Revenue businesses that are adjacent to the markets that Nvidia enables the most obvious one is the hyperscalers which are multi hundred billion dollar Revenue businesses so they're going to be forced
to compete otherwise their market cap will shrink and I don't think they want that and then it's going to create a very complicated set of incentives for Microsoft and Google and meta and apple and all the rest and that's also then going to be an accelerant they're going to pump so much money to help all of these upstarts to your point Jason chip away and nip at
the the Achilles heels of Nvidia until they fall yeah and there's a great uh precedent for what you're saying because or Clues Amazon is making chips Google is making chips and in Tesla's making chips chip everybody's makes their own chips and they got rid of Intel and so this is how it's going to go your margin is my opportunity uh and you know with all
this market cap increase the good news is uh it's just reported that Jensen has bought a second leather jacket so well this market cap has enabled him to expand the work bit way I gotta say he looks really good he looks super fit you know he a picture is he is he in his late 50s he's going into his Harrison Ford he looks he
look great the salt and pepper 61 61 he looks amazing he looks amazing I'll tell you something in the zombie apocalypse draft I'm picking him that guy seems crafty you know what do you think he does for exercise no plastic ball plastic ball no no no his balls have plastic steal in there no no he's got his have brass in literally hadass put into his balls no
all of our balls have plastic apparently okay well we have two choices here we can go with another tech story or we can go directly to science corner and well no I think we do state of the economy and then do science Corner okay so you want to talk about our pocketbooks and then we'll talk about our pockets and then we'll just make a quick detour to
the right and then talk about our balls we're in the same vicinity so I think we should end on our balls okay great let's let's end with our balls likes to start with the balls I don't know everybody's got different kind of Vibes here the ball play should come a little bit later in the in the progr you want to save the ball play for
lighter sax I'm having a hard time keeping this together guys more than half of Americans think we're in a recession I think we're in a Vibe session right now because we're not in a recession but people are feeling really bad a Harris poll conducted by the guardian shows that 5 56% of Americans wrongly believe the US is in a recession not
surprisingly they blame Biden the poll highlighted a bunch of misconceptions 55% believe the US economy is shrinking it's obviously not 56% think the US is experiencing recession it's obviously not 49% of be above believe the S&P 500 stock market index is down for the year it's up 12% this year it was up 24% in 2023 and 49% believe that unemployment
is at a 50-year high when it's in fact at a 50-year low and Americans are really concerned about the cost of living in inflation fair enough 70% said the biggest economic concern was the cost of living 68% said that inflation was the biggest economic concern important quote here a majority of respondents agreed it's difficult to be happy about positive
economic news when I feel financially squeezed each month and that the economy was worse than the media made it out to be according to the poll 70% of Republicans and 40% of Democrats think Biden is making the economy worse jamaath you have some thoughts on this I'm going to go out on a limb speculate that a lot of the big numbers that we use to gauge how
we should feel about things in today's day and age are pretty brittle okay explain fragile and may may actually just be totally wrong so what's an example so for example like if you look at something like non-farm payrolls right so the first Friday of every month you get this report that comes out from the the Department of Labor and it shows
what where unemployment is but how do they calculate that do you think that they have a realtime sense of exactly every person in that month that entered the workforce or exit at the workforce no they do a survey and then they extrapolate and if you do that survey incorrectly and Jason you've commented on this before for example if you don't
capture adequately the number of people that are on the sidelines and never join the workforce or the number of people that are part of the gig economy so they are kind of working you get an inaccurate sense of where the real economy is I think that GDP is somewhat similar because if you just break down what GDP is so Nick there's a very simple pie
chart I sent to you what is GDP it's the sum of four things most of it is what people spend okay then the next big chunk is what companies and governments spend and then the last is what we export to other countries so let's just pause for one second and think about what do you think happens when rates are Zero versus when rates are at 6% people spend a lot more
well people are tend are tend to save when interest rates are high just look the natural thing like why would I buy a pair of these Nike shoes I'll just put it in the bank I get six% but when the bank pays you zero you're like ah let me buy these Air Force Ones and move on right it turns out it's the same for companies companies find it easier to
invest when rates are at zero because it's cheaper it's much more expensive because they're borrowing money at 6% versus at 0% or more more corporate gets charge a higher fee right yeah then when you have high interest rates you have a currency that appreciates it makes exports less attractive to other people which means then you become a importer
okay so what is the last thing that's left the last thing that's left is government spending and you have to ask the question what should governments do when rates are high there was a chart I published in my annual letter if you just go to that for a second and just going back to this chart right before it just so the people
who are listening if you put the pie chop art Nick important for people to know consumer is about 70% of the economy and if you put investment in government together that's just over maybe 34% ex% so it is a consumer-driven economy but hey you know corporate and government spending is a major piece as well and then and I just wanted just to
highlight that when interest rates are very high all of a sudden governments are faced with this very ult problem which is oh man I have to spend a ton of money on interest just like if you had a bunch of credit cards and all of a sudden the interest rates went up so the choice is twofold do governments spend less but unfortunately it turns out that
our governments in America they just keep spending more and more so even if net interest income is small even if net interest income is high they're just like forget it the Taps are on so what does this all mean I think what it really means is that we do a very poor job of measuring all these Dynamics together and so I actually trust the
survey data of these individuals more than I trust the GDP report in the sense that I think it more accurately captures this Dynamic rates are at 6% people are saving more if they're not getting paid more things are costing more the government is giving you free money so you kind of feel like everything is moving so that the GDP measurement the
way that it's classically done shows that wow we grew at three or 4% but the average individual American isn't feeling that they're actually feeling that they have less money so I would actually go with them and actually say if we don't revisit this thing from first principles we're going to get this Dynamic where we think one thing is happening
but the actual exact opposite is happening in this case I do think we're we're in a quasy synthetic recession SX what's your take on the vibe session well look I I tend to agree with jamaath on this I think this a classic story of who do you believe do you believe the experts or do you believe in the intuitions of the American people and
the experts have some statistics on their side but you know the old saying goes there's lies damn lies and statistics and then the American people have their actual lived experience on their side they know what they're feeling and I tend to trust in that and obviously we're in an election year and the Press knows that so they're trying to do this big cleanup effort for Biden
but why why is it that people are feeling this way number one is inflation and if you look at this chart you can see that if you look at household net worth since the start of the Biden presidency and compare it to the change in household net worth at a similar point in Trump's presidency in nominal terms it appears to be the same but then
if you adjust for inflation in other words you look at the real household net worth you can see that household net worth during the Biden term has been flat actually it's down because of inflation right because of inflation where did the inflation come from where did the inflation come from yeah well Larry Summers warned in the first
quarter of the Biden Administration that if you passed an unnecessary $2 trillion do of covid stimulus you would produce inflation the inflation rate when Biden came into office was 1.7% we had a rip raring economy but he started stimulating and we talked about bomic is this new policy of pumping trillions of dollars of stimulus into a healthy economy which we've never
done before what happened inflation went all the way to 9% so people's wages have not kept up with the rate of inflation this is why they feel worse off when you actually look at purchasing power people are worse off in terms of their actual ability to buy things their purchasing power has gone down wages may have gone
up a little bit but they have not gone up as much as inflation so people feel worse off now Larry also had that I think really informative study showing that inflation would have Peak at 18% if you include cost of borrowing so again to Chamas point if you're trying to get a mortgage and you're paying 7 and a half 8% you feel way worse off if you
need to buy a car and make a car payment you feel much worse off if you've got credit card debt which is now hit an all-time record of something like 1.1 trillion your credit card rates have never been higher right so the average American feels worse off because cost of borrowing has a huge impact on their household finances and that's why if you
read like one of the last paragraph in that story that you referred to they use the key words the consumer feels squeezed the average household feels squeezed they may not have lost their job yet but they've lost purchasing power and they've lost they're under they're under earning they're under earning and so the pro this obvious and
you know the pre the Press can Gaslight us all day long about how wonderful things are under Biden but the average American I think understands differently based on their own experience I think the whole thing comes down to the projection of an individual or a household of their lived experience onto the economy you assume that because
you're having a tough time the economy is bad that and the economy as a definition for them is how do I earn and how do I spend and if I'm under earning that means there must be serious job loss and things are more expensive and my ability to purchase isn't improving and so I think we're all kind of going to end up on the same take on this one I
mean Nick if you want to pull this image up this is I think a helpful one which is disposable personal income relative to outlays that folks are needing to spend more than they're making so clearly indicating that they're feeling like they're under earning so the projection of that is the economy is bad without recognizing that it is an
inflationary experience whereas economists use the definition of of quote economic growth being gross production gross product and so if gross product or gross revenue is going up they're like oh the economy is healthy we're growing but the truth is we're funding that growth with leverage at the national level the federal level and at
the household and domestic level we are borrowing money to inflate the revenue numbers and so the GDP goes up but the debt is going up higher and so the ability for folks to support themselves and buy things that they want to buy and continue to improve their condition in life has declined if things are getting worse and if you go to the next image as
s pointed out already here's the image of total outstanding credit card debt over a trillion dollars it's totally spiked and it's going to continue to spike just like federal debt because of the next chart which is the sudden jump in interest rates so we've seen credit card interest rates jump from 12% on average 10 years ago to 21.9% right now and it was at
14% at the end of 2022 so we've gone from 14% average credit card interest rates to 22% now in just about 24 20 to 24 months and so the the projection that I think of the quote economy must be bad is resulted from the fact that income to spending is actually pretty negative so here's the real median family income this actually only goes through 2019 so
it doesn't even capture the era the era that we're talking about but this has been going on uh for quite some time that the average American's ability to improve their condition has largely been driven by their ability to borrow not by their earnings and this has create a substantial set of precedents that were now running into a wall with interest
rates spiking and inflation hitting us because of the overall federal debt that we've taken on I think we're probably going to go around the horn and all agree obviously the crazy spending started in the Trump and covid era and that caused a lot of the inflation as well just to be fair it's two two administrations that are just out of
control with spending but uh the way I look at this is the Mickey D economy people may not know this but 96% of Americans eat meals at least once a year in McDonald's 8% of Americans eat at McDonald's on an average day and when you look at the prices of McDonald's here uh if we look at this image yeah this is incredible this is incredible
this is unbelievable medium french fries at McDonald's Buck 79 in 2019 and now 419 and then if we look at just McNuggets gosh 449 to 758 68% increase McChicken 1229 to 3 389 and then here is a very interesting one this is CPI versus McDonald's Big Mac prices take a look at that as much as the Consumer Price Index has surged Big Macs have
exceeded that and so Americans are seeing this over and over again when they go to McDonald's and other places and and that's what's causing the feeling back to chart go back to that McNugget chart I just want to see what what is it end of 2019 so this is basically you'd want to look at the fouryear stock price right so like these guys have jacked up prices massively if
you you look at what's happened to the stock the stock is way up it's kind of been they've been very motivated and rewarded as a company for just rewarding the shareholder and kind of screwing over the customer if you own equities in McDonald's and you're in the top third or half of maybe half of Americans who have Equity exposure you're feeling
great if you're on the bottom third or half and you're buying at McDonald's and you don't own Equity McDonald's you feel terrible free break you had some additional thoughts yeah but remember what McDonald's and other fast food companies have said is that labor costs have climbed here's a chart on labor costs that Nick can pull up workers at
Walmart and McDonald's have had pay increases but this has really been to try and keep up with inflation the inflation of other costs so a lot of people will say oh they're price gouging they're ripping off consumers to make profits for shareholders but the truth is the biggest component of running those restaurants is labor and labor has
gotten more expensive because the employees that work there have to earn enough to pay their bills and to afford their food and this is the circular effect of inflation it finds its way all through the economy it filters down and it eventually hits everyone look fast food's a pretty competitive business I mean I think the reason why McDonald's is Raising prices
because everyone else is Raising prices I mean otherwise they'd be losing share and just go to the grocery store and look at the price of steak or chicken or whatever or eggs it's gone up tremendously over the last few years let me ask you a candy question when's the last time you were in Supermarket be honest when's the last time you
literally went to a I'm just curious It's not relevant I mean yeah look obviously we know that the price of eggs doesn't affect me okay great I'm in a fortunate position that's not what the topic is the topic is what is the impact on the American people and why why do 70% of the people in that poll feel that we're in a recession even though the
expert tell us we're not and I've explained yeah and and the other thing is there's a went to supermarket the day I like going to supermarket I take my I believe how expensive things I mean some of the stuff I was just blown away how expensive things it's Bonkers about the look at the look at the package I sent you guys the Driscoll super sweet
strawberries you cornered the market on I went and tried to find them here in Sano there's none left they said shth cornered the market went toas not and I no not and I go to sigonas every week a because we like buying our own fruit yeah but also be because our kids like to do it and they like to see what things cost and they like to pick stuff
but fantastic you know this sweetest batch was seven bucks for how many strawberries it by the way 12 strawberries in there well so here's what I'll tell you quite honestly I'm like I think that you need to put these guys on notice oh on blast the perfume so the the the nose like just like it's incredible okay the smell is the aroma
is just absolutely incredible yeah but to be totally honest with you the mouth feel and the sweetness is not what this label would imply yeah what were you expecting in terms of mouth feel I was expecting like something juicier more succulent let let me ask you a question do you have a somaler for your fruit yeah I mean you seem like a real
connoisseur here you do T no I told been texting I've been I've been texting freedberg about this for months I am a connoisseur of fruit okay it's very important to me I like good fruit so you know my wife and I go and find good fruit for our family and it's really expensive and even this overpromises and underd deliver so freeberg if you can land a GMO
strawberry I'm gonna put it in my belly give me a GMO strawberry freeberg twice as big three times as sweet get in my belly I think we should all go to Tokyo for a weekend and do some fruit tasting in Tokyo you have to get on the Hokkaido strawberries this is where it's at you have no idea like what you can spend on strawberries people are
spending 10 bucks on a strawberry it is Bonkers I bought a $100 mango once in Tokyo yeah incredible you know the other thing I think with these numbers is if you're an economist and you're like inflation has gone down that means the rate of inflation's gone down from 6 or 7% down to 3% or 2.9 or 3.1 that doesn't mean prices aren't still going up
and if you want to replace if you want to replace GDP there was a very good article in the Wall Street Journal a few weeks ago about how there's been just a total breakdown in what these highlevel numbers say kind of what we've been saying and how Americans feel and they introduced a different score well they they gave it publicity it's not their
score but it's something that they call the core score okay and what that does it's I'll just read it to you just so you can understand it it's a county level index of well being using measures of Economic Security Economic Opportunity health and political voice and so the lowest possible score is zero the highest possible score is 10 as it
turns out when they use this across every County in America the distribution is basically as follows the the most quote unquote prosperous county is FS Church Virginia which is 7.86 out of 10 and the lowest county is Jim Haw County of Texas which has a score of 2.25 so to the extent that you want to start to look at granular measures this is one
I'm not going to advocate for it but it's an example but what are you noticing here what I noticed is that there's a lot of patches of like me to not good in most parts of America and so other than a very few small Pockets where people feel great most of the country is sort of dissatisfied and I think that that's a really important thing to internalize
yeah some of this is classic psychology you know people do focus on the negative the media focuses on the ne negative and then with social media people are seeing Lifestyles that are unattainable just like they're seeing body types that are unattainable because people are doing filters you're also seeing people living a lifestyle that's unattainable and then
it makes people because their expectation of their life is so high when they then subtract the reality of their life they've got a deficit and really happiness is like expectations minus reality equals happiness yeah but you had that same Dynamic when consumer sentiment was much higher in a previous administration people are feeling much
better about the economy so that's a constant yeah well people were having free money Dro on head people having free Trump dropped free money on people's head so your argument that Biden was crazy in spending sent with his name on it yeah when the economy when the economy was down 33% year-over-year but you ad that way too much money right you admit he spent way
both parties thought that we were headed for depression and so we had a bipartisan stimulus Bill during an actual crisis once the crisis was over there was no need to keep spending so when Trump signed Jason Jason let's be fair he wasn't responsible and once the seal has been broken yeah I think it's fair to say both sides of the aisle now believe that
they can give away an enormous amount of money both there there's nobody that feels like they have a responsibility to stop but I think I think SX is but saaks is right in the sense that so if you take that as a constant right that there will always be handouts now of all kinds yep there'll be different flavors depending
on whether it's a Republican or whether a Democrat a Democrat all an all rationalized it's it's all but so then what I'm saying is that's my point this abstraction though doesn't solve what's happening now because this free money is in the system it's constantly in the system it comes in different wavs so people should feel better the that they
don't in the face of this constant Money Train y I think is actually quite alarming this is I think what the point is which is we are economically in a very complicated moment in the sense that there is no pandemic to blame there's no economy that's totally shut down in fact there's an economy that seems to be moving but leaving an
enormous number of people behind so however it has been structured just sitting here today in 2024 it's broken for more people than it's working for yeah Trump just to give facts Trump will have spent 7.8 trillion Biden will spend slightly less like 6.x trillion at the end of these things they're both going to have added you're missing the fact that Trump had 2020
with when we had the covid depression or what what could have been when the econ year over year yeah and a terribly time tax did you guys see hold on a second let me just make this one point just because both parties have been irresponsible in spending doesn't mean that we can't make further judgment about who's been worse sure what's
happened in the Biden Administration is just quantitatively worse well no quantitatively Trump spent more but you're saying qualitatively Biden's is worse because he didn't need to there was no crisis right okay so one spent more one spent less but one didn't need to and one abs look at look at Trump's spending before Co look at Trump's
spending before covid it was like a 5% bump on Obama spending well the the tax break was the one that that accounted for a lot of yeah but anyway we can sit here and debate Trump versus Biden let's talk about my balls boys yeah we're wasting time here wasting time on Trump and Biden when we could be talking my B if we're gonna talk about our balls we
need to go to somebody who's an expert on our testicles freeberg let's go right to science Corner let's talk about our balls with the Sultan of science there's been a study on phalates our balls and plastic in our balls free bark te this up yeah the consumer reports put out a really interesting or what has become pretty widely covered now story a couple weeks
ago where they measured phalates in common foods and Nick if you want to just pull up the image that's been repeated in a lot of media a lot of press people were going nuts over this phalates are these chemical compounds that are used in Plastics or used with plastics to soften them so when you make Plastics you can kind of you know make
them softer and form them into Al to different shapes and use them for different applications like plastic bags or wraps or tubes or all sorts of things and uh theats are these kind of smaller molecules that that kind of go along with the polymers that that are the basis of the Plastics and they measured phalates which are known to be toxic in
terms of if you get enough of them they can be carcinogenic and cause cancer and they show that every product they tested had phalates in it wend these chicken nuggets had you know 33,00 nanog per serving if you scroll up to the top look at the wait look at the Chipotle chicken burrito oh my God right and just to be clear guys this is not
just about packaging packaging plays a role but the whole food supply chain the way we wrap food all of our water all of our dust all of the air we breathe we have measured theats in everything so these phalates end up in the animals that are used to make milk and the animals that people eat they end up in the water that goes into the vegetables
that we grow in the ground they end up being used to make the little plastic jars that we feed our kids out of the little yogurt pouches that our kids drink out of everything all just to move food around in plastic packaging free B freeberg why would the chicken nuggets from Wendy's though be so is it because they are eating they are eating things
that have Plastics in them Plastics in them but but we also don't know and so we're eating the chicken so we're eating the plastic we're eating the plastic and it's also the fact that the way that they process the chicken and the material that they use and the pack they from you gots are chicken breast that put in the and then the has has you
know the oil is transported in plastic we don't know so it's plastic all the way down at this these are the things like look at Annie's I first of all I really dislike Annie's labeling and pack packaging I think it's very ugly so I've never bought it for that reason but I know that there's a lot of private Equity moms that buy anies because it's
supposed to be better keep going this is a point hold on Jamal's making a really good point go ahead Jamal this is really good and so the problem is you see organic when you go like we again we go to drers that's typically where we go sometimes we go to Whole Foods but we go to drers and sagonas that's the places we go to in
our neighborhood and when you go and you look at these things like prepared meals as an example the thing that has always attracted me to Annie's is because it is positioned as it is cleaner and better for you and you see everybody buying it and what you actually see sitting on the shelf that's left over is actually the chef boy Rd and the Campell and I always
thought to myself I won't buy anies because I actually don't like the label to be honest that was like that was really why I did just deeply dislike the packaging but it turns out it's the absolute worst for you yeah it is and and let me just tell you guys let me tell you guys some stats about this so we produced about three million tons of
thights a year creating them that we use in our industrial supply chain the global market for thights is about billion per year we find it everywhere in our tap water as measured in the US in multiple places there's about one microgram so those were nanograms so you kind of divide it by a thousand so that Annie thing has 50 micrograms of
Daylights in it but there's about one microgram of phalates per liter of water that you're drinking now here's um a study was done out of Germany where they basically tried to estimate how much people were consuming and on average people consume or ingest about micrograms of phalates per kilogram of your body weight per day so an adult male is is consuming about 500
micrograms of phalates per day that's half a gram per day and the human body metabolizes and excretes it it comes out the EPA all of the administrative like agencies that oversee this stuff they're like it's okay we metabolize it as long as we don't consume more than we can metabolize it's going to be safe because it's not going to stay in our bodies
it's going to was out here's the problem while it's in your body while while it's moving through your body being metabolized it is what's called an endocrine disruptor and we talked about this in the past with respect to the sunscreens these phalates actually interfere with the hormones that are made by things like your pituitary gland
your thyroid and even some of the hormones that are produced in testicle cells there was another study done that really tried to estimate what the impact was and here is a study that showed how do phalates actually interact with different parts of the endocrine system and they went through and they found all these places that biological hormones
and the endocrine system are disrupted by the phalates and and we'll put credit for everyone um that that that shared these papers here later and they basically showed the mechanism by which the phalates are actually disrupting endocrine systems now what is the endocrine system we've talked about endocrine disruptors in the past the
endocrine system is the interaction of hormones with cells in your body produced by all these different glands in your body like your thyroid your pituitary gland and so on controls things like growth tissue development reproductive tissue activity like making sperm cells autonomic function like body temperature blood pressure sleep heart rate regulation injury and stress
response your mood all of those things are regulated by your endocrine system and so when the the the hormones or the proteins or peptides that are made by those glands are disrupted by these phalates it can actually dis disrupt those systems and mess them up so while we're not consuming generally speaking enough phalates to cause cancer and
therefore we all say hey it's okay these phades aren't that bad we're not going to all die from cancer the truth is there is demonstrations now on how they can actually disrupt the activity of your endocrine system and as a result have all of these dilus effects another study done on 125 men out of China this this paper was done out of
China they saw damage to testicle cells that would die testicle cells that would produce fewer sperm and then testicle cells that produced sperm with extra nuclei and they actually demonstrated this in rats so the set of compounds can be fairly disruptive so now we'll go to the next story right and the next story is the one that everyone's writing about
which is oh my God there's plastic and balls so a team at University of New Mexico that was published in the Journal of toxicological Sciences just last week they took 47 neuter dogs testicles from a local pet CL where they were getting neutered and they found on average 128 microG per of microplastics in those testicles and it was mostly you know
polyvinyl chloride or one of the the main Plastics and polyethylene and again phalates leech out of these Plastics and leech into the cells and then they went to the medical investigator's office and they found these uh the testicles that were frozen for seven years because when they do a medical investigation and they keep all the body parts they keep them
on ice and then they throw them away after seven years years so before they threw them away they got permission of humans they got permission to use these testicles to figure out are they Plastics and they measured them in the Frozen balls in the Frozen balls these are ancient Frozen balls how old are these balls 23 Frozen balls about seven
years old okay seven-year-old balls Frozen Wait are people donating their balls to science is that how no it's like when there's like a homicide or someone and or you don't know who died or there's an investigation into why someone died the the corner the corner keeps the body parts in case it's needed for a like a police case later as stay
on the record I don't want my balls used that way okay you don't have the Frozen balls on your driver's license like freeze my balls they asked me to store my balls I think said you got such huge balls anyway they got 23 23 of these these balls from these bodies and they found um Plastics on average 328 micrograms per gram of of
testicle in in these balls what you usually find free BG what do you usually find in these balls well we don't we don't know because we've never taken human tissue and tried to take it apart in a very detailed way to figure out like how much plastic is there you know what is it doing to our body but now I just want to connect the dots so now we
have a sense that there's these states and these other compounds that come with plastics that leak in that cause all this disruption separately we're seeing this accumulation of these little plastic particles and remember Plastics are polymers they're long chains of monomers and so they can be short chains they can be long so they break apart
break apart break apart and little tiny bits of them end up and they're very hard to metabolize and they sit in your tissue and then they can cause all this disruption so you know I think these are like generally I'm just gonna say it I'm just first of all I really appreciate that you did this I think it's so important we talked about microplastics
a little bit ago you know jcal moved his whole family away I guess a few years ago from Plastics I've started to do it four or five months ago after you can't get away from it it is everywhere supply chain is your point it's a it's in the water it's in the air it's everywhere this is what I was going to say I think our food supply I think we should just
say it out loud is totally corrupted and I think there's all of these other factors we look at the rise in the use of ssris the lack of sexual function in young men the lack of sex the low birth rate I think these are all related and part of it is the food supply and part of the food supply problem is a fact that it is corrupted by these materials
that should never be in our body I want to just push back on this because I I don't want Li that's a guess but I honestly think it's a truth I don't want to limit it I don't want to limit it to the food supply because here's the other thing all of us are wearing clothes that use polymers which are Plastics all of us are sitting at desks that have
Coatings of polymers on them all of us have iPhones that use polymers all of us drive cars and the rubber one of the ways that they found that uh plastic these microp particles are getting in the air is through tires when we drive little particulates end up in the atmosphere we breathe them in and then they end up in our body every part of
our industrial supply chain uses polymers every part of our industrial supply chain hear you but the concentration I'm going to guess that the concentration when you actually put it in your body and then your intestines and your organs are bathed in this stuff I'm going to guess that the food supply has a huge part to do with this
yeah but when you're let's say you take let's say you're wearing a clothing almost all of our clothes now many of our clothes have polymers in them we put it in the washing machine it ends up in the water supply chain we consume that water I it's very hard to say that there's a specific action our whole system has been inundated with these
lower cost let me say it in a way that maybe you will agree with then we need to fix something my starting point would be the food supply yeah where do you start yeah water yeah my big my big takeaway is is sort of like yours which is almost impossible to alter this industry overnight given how ubiquitous these compounds are and everything we do
and touch tires phones clothing Etc but I think that this is going to trigger and is the beginning of a wave I'm noticing that a lot of folks are going to start to pay attention in the food industry and start to figure out ways to represent low plastic low phalate food products as a way to kind of sell a more premium solution I think that's been the
trend historically with the food industry chth is to respond to your ask right now and to then show up with with solution so I do think that that's and and just just taking a step back we don't have to use these these are all based on fossil fuel so the way we make Plastics is we basically pull oil out of the ground and we turn it into these polymers That's the basis of
this chemical industry we don't have to do that with the same function we can get the same function from what are called bioplastics so these can these are compounds that can actually be much more biodegradable that are made with biological systems and not made from oil using synthetic chemical systems so I do think that there's a
really big opportunity for for a wave of bioplastic Alternatives given that this is now becoming a little bit more obvious to folks that there is this kind of systemic problem that this is ubiquitous and that we do need to kind of address it okay so just zooming out here for a minute you talked about the phalates but what about the Bas freeberg the study on the Bas let me
play in what are the both Jason both these nuts well done that was really well done that was really really well done you you nail up before the show I was like what is BAS B that's awesome why not to start laughing before you deliver the joke next time oh my God where's the air horn Nick play the air horn no no okay let's
get serious here for a second I have a real question part of the thing that I think is broken is that I think somewhere along the way we got screwed up in how food is labeled right and we and then it was it was gamed effectively right so for for years even when I was growing up I thought you should not buy food that had that was high in fat as an
example and little did I know I was ingesting all these sugars as a substitute to Fat it was a total mistake does the labeling to become simpler and focus on these things that are just fundamentally carcinogenic for us one two are there like lawsuits that need to happen Allah cigarettes where you kind of connect the dots between
these phalates and and a bunch of these diseases because it just seems like we are people have thrown their hands in the air for years right some people say autism and diet are correlated right other people so there there you know Crohn's the rise of Crohns there's so many of these conditions that there is a cohort of people that attribute most of the reason the
pathology of the disease exists to food so what do we do or pesticides right yeah that was in there too is that your actual office behind you or is that a background Jam that's my office yeah yeah so like every one of those books is coded in some of these compounds no these are phade free because these are from the 1400s they didn't have that
back then okay good all right well everything else that the desk is made of all of those collector items yeah these are collector's items bro these are these are from an era where that stuff didn't exist and you're you're you're pure I'm assuming you're you're you're wearing a pure baby wool sweater which doesn't have any polymers it's baby casm
yeah but I think what's what what's what's overwhelming about biodegradable right I think I think baby Catherine is biodegradable it is what's overwhelming about this problem is the ubiquity of the problem it's almost like asking tell me everywhere that carbon is used like imagine if you had to label every no I I'm trying I'm trying to hone you into
this one area that I actually I I get the tires and the this and the that I'm trying to get to something that I fundamentally care about I have young children I feed them food every day I don't trust my food supply I've never really trusted it and this kind of stuff adds to this body of evidence where I'm worried that if my kids go through some
kind of an issue at the core of it will actually be something dietary and it's typically overlooked by modern medicine because you'll treat it symic you'll try to give it some kind of pill it's not how you treat a lot of these things it could turn out where I think restructuring someone's diet can actually have an enormous impact so I'm just trying to
figure out what is something that we can all start to do to get a handle on this because you're putting food in your body every day yeah it seems like you're saying it's it's um helpless here freeberg there's nothing we can do and I think what jamath and I are saying asking you is like where do we start how can we start to get off of plastics I
think we got to go into the source so biopolymers are made by living organisms they're they're typically longer chains of what are more like sugar molecules and they can be used in a similar way that we're they're not going to be as good as synthetic polymers that we use today so a lot of our applications a lot of our industry would have to be rebuilt
if we really wanted to go back to redesign the whole system but we got to redesign the whole system we're making everything out of these products because they're cheap and because we can pull oil out of the ground and turn it into cheap stuff and then it makes things affordable for everyone on Earth and that's how this industry emerged you
know it was not like some someone randomly came along and said let's put Plastics and everything because it's going to be good for people it was a way to make products more accessible and more available and cheaper and it's everywhere um and so I think there's this real question of like what industrial synthetic chemistries do we
use today as a species that we should rethink using and start at that level and then rebuild from there and I think shining a light on this stuff and just talking about what these products are find I think that's L latory but too complicated I want something simpler which is like can we get a law passed so that chickens cannot eat certain kinds
of food that are known to be high in phalates yeah and here's an idea look at this chth like look at this banana like I just as a news flash a banana already has a wrapper it's called the peel and then people are wrapping Plastics on this stuff like I think consumers need to demand that like why you take a picture of a banana why did you take a
picture of a banana I found that on the internet I didn't actually take it myself okay I thought you were like sitting at the store photographing ban you know when you see this kind of packaging this is what has made me nuts in my life is all this crazy packaging going on and in Europe you are required at the supermarket and people do this
when they get to the end of the counter they take the packaging off the supermarket has to take the packaging right so they have to bear the burden of it so if you get a tube a toothpaste you can take the packaging off and hand them the thing other places are now saying hey if you're coming for peanut butter or grains or flour or sugar they have a
barrel of sugar they put it in a brown bag and and you get this like more clean experience I think we have to have like both ends of this the supply chain but also consumers there's a there's like a marketing I want my bananas to come with packaging on them you do you want fingerprints I don't want anyone's fingerprints Banas you don't eat the peel but brother
you don't eat the peel yeah but it's I could touch it I haven't we haven't bought water bottles I want everything to come in hermetically sealed plastic yeah but then how many people in your house handle your banana pause whoa whoa she ask him how many people in his house handled his banana oh no Diddy no but the re the real issue is not that it's
like when the girls in your family have puberty younger and younger and you're like why is that happening or inconsistent periods or when the boys go through these weird you know moments where they're like not really growing was Tik Tok no I'm I'm just telling you like there's so many things that we have to panic about it's hard to to your
point it's hard to attribute yeah to one thing yeah but I think I think the I think the thing that everybody could get get focused on is how can you correct at least the marketing versus the reality in our food supply you know a different example I remember Nat telling me something which was along the lines of like hormone free is something that's
marketed but like chickens have been hormone free since the 50s but it's like there's some latent hormones left inside of them and then some of the feed is is really poorly constructed and you should be focused on like air chilled versus water chilled or whatever there's just so much out there and so I think it's hard if you're
like trying to take care of your family sense of it all yeah makes sense of it all it's just like it I think everyone everyone feels helpless and everyone wants to Gras I find this super frustrating because it's something that I I really care about my like what I eat right totally and it came from a place where a lot of disease in my family and
then I was overweight when I was young and so I just want to kind of like tow a no I mean you eatle imposs you if you're eating know Jason but but my my takeaway is there's going to be a lot of phalates in my balls yes absolutely despite all the stuff that I do I'm no better off than somebody eating at Wendy's in the end of the day and I feel like well what
is all that time and expense and difficulty yeah is is it's not worth it well there's other health benefits to it of course and there's environmental benefits but I you know we went all glass bottles as I told you and you know then I find out that some of the cans we have because it's a couple of things we like like certain natural sodas they got
plastic on the inside of the aluminum on theide exactly I'm like I thought I was doing the right thing here by going aluminum can plastic on the inside exactly so the moral of the story is don't try to do the right thing I mean I don't know but anyway I just want to I think this stuff is unavoidable I really do that's why
I'm not worri about I think I think I think you're right and I think that's why you see all of these kinds of diseases these chronic and acute conditions just ticking up tick tick tick tick tick tick tick it's uh well anyway I think this was a fascinating science corner and uh I I I um I took a screenshot of saxs during it this is
Sax's interest level you can always tell how good it is no look I thought I thought this was a science corner I could finally use you know absolutely yeah they they actually checked Sax's balls for the Plastics and all they found were steel so there it is there you go yeah it's just brass balls going around the horn here what's your favorite balls in pop culture for me
it's got to be idiocracy I love have you guys seen Idiocracy in Mike judge's film I haven't seen it okay so in the film I'll just cue this up Society has gone to the lowest possible IQ everybody's got an adiq and like people like a reality TV star is running the country into the ground that's what he has in Idiocracy and the number one television
show is essentially a Tik Tok called ouch my balls here it is oh the wall it's basically the number one television show in this Society this dystopian Society where all the crops have died and they don't know how to make crops anymore is ouch my balls it's just a super cut of a guy getting kicked in the nuts saak what's your favorite ball
moment in pop culture agree Glenn Ross all right here it is folks this is this these that's like Baldwin yeah freeberg you got a favorite ball clip from pop culture for yourself that tickles you no chop you got one I'm gonna find one you got one okay everybody this has been a spectacular episode of the world's number one podcast it's episode 180 of the all-in
podcast with you again for the Sultan of science David Friedberg David Sachs there's a compilation of YouTube on YouTube of all these Austin Powers moments of Austin Powers getting kicked in the balls yeah babies and we'll see you all at The Summit in September byebye love you Bo byebye let your winners ride Rainman David and instead we open Source it to
the fans and they've just gone crazy with it queen [Music] of Besties [Music] are my dog Tak [Music] driveway oh man we should all just get a room and just have one big huge orgy cuz they're all this useless it's like this like sexual tension but they just need to release somehow [Music] we need to get mer [Music] our I'm going and now the plugs the all-in
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do.com I do freeberg can be followed at x.com freeberg and ohal is hiring click on the careers page at ohal genetics.com and you can follow sax x.com David saxs saxs recently spoke at the American moment conference and people are going crazy for it it's pinned to his tweet on his X profile I'm Jason kakanis I amx.com Jason and if you want to see
pictures of my bulldog dogs and the food I'm eating go to instagram.com Jason inth firstname Club you can listen to my other podcasts this week in startups just search for it on YouTube or your favorite podcast player we are hiring a researcher apply to be a researcher doing primary research and working with me and producer Nick working in data and
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