do you ever get used to it the idea of releasing music putting it out weirdly I'm getting used to it slowly so what does it feel like when you use it I have a low every time I Get Low yeah I get low I almost get upset [Music] for melancholy that you would feel at the end of a holiday or is it more like a thing that you're sort of concerned
about because you're not quite sure how people are going to perceive you're gonna sound like a drama queen but it's like a death in a way yeah because they're mine yeah and they belong to me and I'd sit with them and I love them and imagine how people would uh listen to them or if people would enjoy them
and um then you put it out there and it doesn't belong to anymore and people take it and people are rude those who know you and love you and true fans have seen your metamorphosis but those who are rediscovering your music because you're making incredible music are like who who was this person compared to that
person there are some people waking up to you again complete but I think what I'm trying to explain to people and not not just the people listen to my music also my team because I said I'm sent Unholy to my team and everyone was like what is this like they were confused they were like what is the brand like
what what are you trying to do here like because it's this is not stay with me this is not this it's not that everyone's trying to make sense of it I hope you turn around and said good question what is the brand well I said I'm the brand yes that's what I said I'm the brand and I just like my gender
really I'm I I'm everything I can be anything I can sing anything I want to and I want to lean into that with my genres I've always tried to I come from latch I come from Stave me it's not like money on my mind wasn't a weird pop something my mind was on in the Lonely Hour but it was weird that's a weird it's a weird song it's weirdly
wavy and like it's really up to about Annoying yeah by the way I love two inch punch but the production compared to the rest of it is like low-key completely mad but it all worked right and in in a weird way it worked it may have not been the most cohesive record to you know Coolio's but I'm not interested I didn't
grow up listening to you know all some I've listened to some of these albums these incredible cult you know albums I think they're going to be cynical sand no they're all incredible they're amazing but I also come from you know Mariah and and and Whitney and George and all these people
who were genre harp if and also Rihanna and Beyonce if you listen to Rihanna's first records there was all different genres compiled together in these beautiful ways someone asked me the other day what's Rihanna's new album gonna sound like and I said well she's done everything so it could be anything
completely and I love that I love to be that's this is where my you know Madonna jumps out like I've always wanted to be an artist that changes it up every single time yeah you know that's the dream yeah I wanna yeah I want to bring out like my Opera album when I'm 40 and then I want to work really hard for the
next four or five years and then I want to like travel around the world no planes no tour no no performances actionable Focus travel yeah I mean I'll run music by myself but I want to just trains cars walking I want to see every inch of the planet for like a year like like a student Michael Stipe told me this thing once
where I said to him how did you write lyrics on this album he went why I just got some overnight things and put it on a backpack and I went to the airport and I looked up at the departure board and I said that looks fun and I went I went to the desk and they had a seat and I bought the seat and I flew there and I
stayed there for three days and I sat in cafes and I just drank a glass of this and Adriana ate a bit of that and then I was like went to the airport with no fixed about like destination looked up at the border went oh maybe I'll go there and I just traveled there oh it's beautiful that's beautiful yeah that's
kind of what he was talking about oh totally that's that's my vibe but I love that I want to get lost like I love the feeling of being lost would you do it on your own would you go with people uh depends depends if I was had a lover at the time yeah yeah I've also got my beautiful friends that I
love that I'd be down to come with yeah um yeah I'd love it I don't know how I feel about hostels but no I mean I don't think anyone's expecting a certain sort of level of travel for you I mean we're hoping no I need to give it a full go I just hate rats yeah I'm not doing rats if I see a rat I'm out there I don't think
you're turning right on the plane oh my God I'm just putting that out there I mean if I have kids I'm gonna yeah I mean that's 4X yeah but I'm just saying if you're on your own I think you're going left yeah I mean I'd hate playing so no planes it would all be it would all be trains and cars how would
you cross the ocean on a boat on a boat near 100 on a boat yeah you'd rather go like through that ocean when it's rough than in that turbulence I did a six hour drive to Vegas two days ago they're six hours there six hours back yeah instead of getting on the plane I hate planes do you love to drive love
to drive music service stations love a service station the whole vibe yeah I love it so that's your plan but but kids are definitely a part of it yeah of course yeah once I've done all the traveling I'd love to do that yeah with someone you love ideally right I'll be beautiful yeah but I can also do it alone of course that's what that's what
I mean there's multiple Pathways you really let go on this music and and we we hatched a plan before we started this conversation we were like okay do we do it all in this go or do we like have a really cool conversation somewhere really fun that we can like have a glass of wine and stretch out and make it a
lifestyle Choice let's do both we decided to do that yeah obviously which means that this one is the amuse Bouche for the main course which comes later on um that doesn't mean we can't touch on music so I kind of want to know without going into the details you can't share at this point you know what you're
overarching feeling is about this new record if your first album was that debut album that unveiled itself to you that allowed you to present your voice to the world and we responded in kind and then the albums that have followed the second album was like okay I am extending myself deeper into this world
big songs big collaborations big moments we talked about that the last album to me was a Break Free yes yeah I pulled them I pull it all apart moment what is this last time for me was almost like DIY yeah it was like not I didn't have the energy yeah to to go in like I did on this record um but I kind of lead into that I don't
mind people seeing part of the process or other things that maybe felt a little unfinished at times you know so who who do you hear when you listen back to that I'm not what but who do you hear someone mid-transition transition from what to what growing up like it was a it was it was a proper growing up so what were you
letting go of um letting go of this Sam Smith artist yeah that was me yeah but was also uh only allowed to talk about certain things we talked about this we couldn't Broach sex yes it was true we couldn't I couldn't really Broach sex and that's not down to end it is what it is down to
my whole team as well as me but it was me too you know I was scared and I was scared to talk about it because I was I I if I showed people my sex everyone would would say it was gross which is so funny because knowing you personally you know and having gotten become friends with you and my my wife loves you and
we've had we've hung out we've had dinners we've dance we've socialized you are an unfiltered sexual funny Charming sociable honest human one of the most fun people in the world to spend any time that you can with Sam I'm telling you go hang out with them but but then you get to this point where the identity
that's presented to The Wider world but doing that on stage is scary yeah that's really scary to do that to do that on stage in a in a world where queer people aren't really celebrated yes as they should be still you know it's a scary thing to do so it took it took guts and um it still takes guts God's funny isn't it the marketing the
marketing materials say that it the lgbtq Revolution Is Here Yeah but the reality is it is here and we and and everything is moving forward in a wonderful way but there is realities that are that are quite hard to swallow like when it comes to the stats of you know the countries that where it's still
illegal you know and it is it it is hard it's still hard to be queer um there's still backlash you know I I still get things said to me on the street even now if you are you like the weirdest thing is you can be famous right you can be a pop star and you still get it because I thought I'd become a pop star and I'd never get a
bad word said to me ever again I'd never have homophobia I'd never experienced it if I became a star you know and then you and then it happens and it's still there it's still there um so yeah it just takes bravery it really does if you take a look at the icons that you've mentioned um some of
which are queer some of which are straight it doesn't really matter but but many of them if they live to tell the tale and most notably the ones who did not made it really clear that what you just said yeah that actually with that level of Fame and attention comes even more scrutiny and at times you are
you are considered to be responsible for things people don't understand and or at worst like dislike yes yeah and I think you're made to be um you know you have to talk about your queerness immediately I think if you become one known in your queer but it we don't have that privilege sometimes of
just being able to talk about the music you know all that acting or um the sport yeah you know yeah you can't just talk about that you have to talk about it oh and that's I've I've stepped into that because I've now realize how powerful that is because you're on the front line of the Revolution exactly and you can there's
kids out there that need this yeah they need us to talk about it you know but when you're thrust into it it's hard so how do you find a safe place in the studio I mean you pick your collaborators really well odds but uh no but but but you but you don't sit still either um you know you are searching for
new fresh perspective on your art um you've worked with some people on this new project that are unique I know and holy you know working with Blake slacken and working with Omar fetty and circuit this is a real crew and Jimmy's there to keep you to keep you grounded he's yours yes I mean he probably
is he kind of you know life partner now in many respects in terms of the longest person you've probably had a relationship of that nature with and it is a relationship let me tell you it's wild it really is a relationship but we're it's beautiful how we've grown he's really let me uh Blossom as well and he's so good at what he does and we
we still uh second-guess each other on things it's it's beautiful I just for me I really realized something with this album and that is that I love teamwork like I love making music with people um I think that it it makes me better at what I do like being in that room with with Blake and Jimmy those people and
it's like this war um to get to a this this good place with the music and um I enjoy that I like seeing people in battle because you you start to study their techniques a little bit can you give us a little bit more before we get into because the album will unveil itself over time and I'm sure times conversation comes out
um you will probably either put more music out because we're a little way away from the record coming out so we can dive into all the themes in deeper detail but who are some of the other people that you work with on the record um I've worked with Incredible people Jesse Reyes is part of quite a few songs
um Calvin oh Calvin on it I worked with uh oh wow so Calvin to their track I'm not here to make friends yeah yeah amazing and what about the one lose you um that was me Blake Ilya um Jimmy slick Max just Re Max Mountain yeah wow yeah what's he like Sensational yeah yeah what can you tell us what can
you tell us about the the mythical Man of Mystery the the prince of Pop just just truly a um a servant of music like he his whole life is to serve music if music's if there was a God music is his God right that's how I feel when I chat to him wow and it's the ego there's of course everyone has ego but
um he can put it aside and and a lot of like Ilya who works with us and with with Max he's he's Sensational at that too yeah it's like the music is the leader at all times and you're never going to work out the code some people treat it like it's a science that you can work out okay and if then you've
because you lose the soul if you I think if you worked it out I think it's the opposite I think you have to give yourself into the complete and utter unknown factors of the moment and then you never know what you're gonna get if you'd shown up in a different kind of space on the day you wrote Unholy it
wouldn't have existed the way it existed it's like it's it's about as close to the present when you really give into it as you can get I think yeah oh totally totally it's like meditation really at the end of the day what's your relation ship like with modern music especially when you're in your process because you
I know that you have you're a fan of music but can you walk that line whilst you're also charting your own path or do you have to just leave that alone and focus on your own oh totally I still love music but I've I've always with music it's it's weird I've never like I never go out and and find it I let it
come to me so whether it's you hear something in the street or someone randomly playing it in the car you know shazam's like my best friend in that sense you know I love a Shazam because what's your lashes at oh gosh can we find out yeah where's mine my last Shazam was Bob Welch enemy eyes I don't even know what it sounds like mine was
I'm obsessed with this artist right now um it's shyko oh shy girl's ridiculous what did you Shazam Nike Cleo I only just heard Cleo Cleo's crazy so late to the party but like I'm obsessed with Nike too the whole I just love shy girl yeah out of control yeah it's like I would love to work with shotgun who do you think in
your mind that that makes musical makes art is someone that kind of takes the right steps the paves a way for you to do it the way you want to do it I always reference Robin I think Robin's amazing Robin just takes her time it's such a good shot and she she said that to me once she met I don't
should have remembered she met me when I was 20 years out and I was sitting in Germany in a canteen and she was about to sing fembot and where were you were you at were you at that point where you were money on my mind yeah and she came and sat down next to me and she just said to me take your time and then she
left it was like it was like an angel coming and just giving me some really beautiful advice but I remember at the time being like I'm not gonna take my time I've I've I haven't got the time I need to bring out music and I've only just realized what she meant go to hell with your small and impactful statements no
but it's so true so why I'd love to have known just just a little bit of insight into what was going on in her mind that because I've met Robin a couple of times and she's very deliberate she's not she doesn't waste words and she doesn't waste time but what what inspired her to want to come over and share that with
you well she must have seen something in that moment that you wouldn't have even been aware of just the way you were carrying yourself or something yeah I mean I was young and it was blowing up and it was just so fast-paced and you I think you need someone to always remind you that you are in control you can stop
when you want to stop um and just make sure you like what you're doing I think yeah I love that um there's so much more for us to talk about on this record I'm hesitant to go too deeply into it at this point um but there's one song I want to talk about if that's okay which is called no God which is attached to a beautiful little
piece of music a nice little reprise at the end called herding um and I just I I just think that this song um is one of the best things you've ever written oh thank you it's amazing because because it actually isn't um a performance per se it's not a song that lends itself for you to have to drive
for some kind of emotional resonance because it's all in the words what's it like to write oh it's incredible I remember like I love that song it doesn't get it doesn't get old for me as well it's it was just something I really needed to get off my chest um people with God complexes you know um
I like to feel like I'm part like even when I go on stage now I hate the fact that it's it's about me in a way like I really want the band to feel like I know I'm trying to make sure these these shows now feel like it's a theater show like it's an ensemble of people I watched you the other day at
the other other night on the live Lounge when Kim Petras comes out and this is what you did if you watch this is what sound did now if you watch any of the pop star here comes the collaborator on your song and what happens is most people dance with the collaborator and they like wait for their moment to just
take their mic back and they like share it this is what Sam did monitor this Sam goes and you step do what Kim's Kim's and I know I know I was like class yeah I mean I just don't I I'm I would rather one day how rare that is these days I don't I don't know people don't do that they stand next I mean one day it's my dream
to just have like some sort of installation on my face and not be seen like that's my dream like I'd love to just be in some like this dress that just covers everything that I don't have to be seen I mean it's one thing for you to want to step back and let and let somebody have their moment which is
beautiful a beautiful human choreography but why don't you even want to like go through that experience full stop it's a weird one because I do enjoy singing live but I just think it's the most vulnerable feeling in the in the world I've never felt more vulnerable or naked than when I sing right and I'm always
scared that I sound bad I afterwards I'm panic I have lows when I come off stage because I feel like I've just bared everything and it's it's so it's I don't know it's just so personal so okay if that's how you feel in yourself no matter what happens what is it what does Applause sound like it's confusing
because it's it can be it's really comforting and beautiful um but but I like it when it's Applause for the music if it's Applause for me I feel weird wow it's not even temporary if they're applauding you you can't even hold on to it for a split second not really making yourself feel good no not really it's hard like even with Unholy
doing well like I need to I have to really try and just enjoy it yeah because I just yeah it's a weird one I've never enjoyed like even when I was a kid singing live it was always a real like traumatic experience the in the Lonely Hour tour which was a true one laminate World Tour like that's when you
get one lemon and it just says World Tour on it so if you get one of those you can go to any show you one if you lose one you're dead I think we've committed to doing something that's very album orientated toward the end of the year yeah so we'll leave it here but uh shame man love it miss you too thank you so much all right