people that I trusted my whole life and my music didn't even want that song on the album wow everyone was petrified of that song was there a reason do you think that can you can you come up with one fundamental reason why people were unsure about it what were they scared of me killing the brand but I I don't understand what I am the brand so like
whatever I do is is on brand I am the brand that is the statement that they can be all things all the time whether we like it or not Sam will forever be that brilliant heartbroken sensitive singer-songwriter who gave us in the Lonely Hour but now Sam is a free unfiltered brilliant modern pop diva Sam is Sam Sam is Gloria and they know how to make an entrance foreign
set the scene because this isn't actually even though this is a place of Music this isn't our normal spot we don't normally come to rehearsal rooms not for any other reason except they're quite sacred yeah they're places for artists like yourself to come in and up and make mistakes and get it right totally if anything they're like they actually are the most
daunting places ever at the beginning of my career I'd say yeah um but now I I love rehearsal rooms I feel I get I'm excited to be in them when I'm here why was it daunting it to start looking up in front of people is exhausting and tiring and scary and especially these musicians like my band like I'd say especially my backing singers actually they're singers that
I've grown up loving in the UK and watching and they've back in sang and sang with the biggest artists ever so you literally when you got to a point when you could you made the call to the people you always wanted to go on stage with yeah totally and singing in front of them was scary yeah still is sometimes you know they're incredible seeing as a musician so it's always it's
always scary I love the chemistry you have with them on stage as well there's a real sense of mutual support and love and friendship and I think we forget when we buy tickets to go to shows that it's real work and not just that you're not actually in complete control you can lose your voice at any moment yeah it's happened to you yeah I mean even now
like I'm I've got we're rehearsing and like I've got a cold this week because I came back from Australia because the world has a cold this week by the way yeah everyone's getting you know aren't they you can hear it when I talk you know I've never mind yet even though it's tempting it would be tempting no ever not even on like a TV show or
anything like that no never amazing but it is tempting like now thinking like I want to do this for my whole life and sing like this and if you've got an arena show and you can't get through it it's tempting to like be like should I mine but I can't I can't I'd rather just have the back and singer sing and I just quote behind me yeah you just puts one out in front and
just stand and join the backing singers yeah I um what's amazing is there are kids who are watching this who will be like mime like what are you talking about mine like singers don't mind like there was a time I think in the late 90s 2000s where if you went on television certainly in the UK that's all you did yeah totally it makes you really wonder
like what role the music played in that at all Yes Man I mean now there's tuning right which is which is a little help in hand too yeah but it's because it's been used in such a creative way now totally like I watch our kids at home muck around with that and it's like oh it's it's no longer a crutch to me it feels like it's an actual tool yeah it's a
it's an atmosphere it's an atmosphere it feels like it's an atmosphere speaking of which you've really you've leaned into all of that on this new album this idea of nothing is sacred anymore yes when you first came out it's like we like everybody was like was like Sam is sacred and the songs are sacred yeah this album is sacred and the artwork had
you sort of like in a sort of it's awesome little toilet was that the running joke for a while then you're looking at it with your friends said yeah yeah is it yeah yeah it's funny could you either it was sacred like it's never heard explained like that but it was it was well because you were so unique and needed like I'll tell you a quick little story I remember
the first time I went into St John's wood in the studio and we were listening to a playback of the album and I've been invited in as a writer which was awesome so I wasn't there as media so I was part of this I was in this room I was like wow do I get in here it's always amazing writers and producers and you were in there and and I was hearing the album for the first
time in the Lonely Hour and I was like I don't even like how has this been made in 2000 whatever like it felt so Timeless and it felt so out of Step at that moment in time when that album was being finished did you feel like it was going to be what it became God no no not at all not at all what were your goals with it um my only focus at that time my life
was to to sing and to make sure that I could have this as a career you know I could just come out of working in the bar and I was just I was just so like focused on uh my work ethic and making sure that I was doing everything I possibly could to continue doing this as a career not having to go back to work um that album is weird it's weird
thinking back to it now like I remember feeling Exposed on it which is the which is something I still feel now so I'm still I'm very happy with the fact that I've kept that with my music I was gonna say that can be positive in the sense that you know you reach a vulnerable place that early on in your life and in your career the ability to be able to push that forward but also
um yeah you were exposed millions and millions of people bought that album or tickets to come and see you and with millions of fans comes quite a lot of eyeballs with cameras and things like that and so the exposure is kind of they can go both ways oh totally and it's been mad like the last few weeks I've been doing the chats for this album and the people you know asking me
like you you feel so you're so confident you're moving in these ways now but and I keep having to remind everyone that I always moved in this way yeah it's just doing it at 20 years old yeah in front of 20 odd thousand people on stage you know moving in that queer way or the feminine way that I do when I dance and stuff like that it's petrifying and I I
can't I don't I wasn't being disauthentic at any point in my career I just wasn't feeling safe I think the suit was too tight yeah yeah yeah totally it was like it was but in a way it was beautiful because it protects it's a metaphor by the way but you can take it how you want but I mean it it's like how could you dance in that thing yeah exactly exactly it's so true in
both ways it's so true so they buttoned you up to the to a degree and you allow yourself to be buttoned up to a degree where where it was like okay all we want is the emotion yes yes allow us to emote you sing the songs in Willem moat that's what I when I look back on those shows now I'm like Sam is really just giving yeah I mean don't
move your hips don't you know talk about this that that don't break the spell yeah but just like let's keep the focus on the voice and in a way it felt like I was being a little bit silenced I guess and I was silence it myself but at the same time I look back and I'm really thankful for it because it protected me it kept the focus on my music
um being out and talking about being gay at 20 years old and press if I had like free reign to talk about what I wanted to oh my God I could have caused some damage what is the source of the fear if you can go back to that moment in time when you're like there's things I would like to say and conversations I'd like to have but I can't what's what's the
source of that fear when you're young and you feel that you can't I think it was just a lack of experience and I wanted to talk on things but I think I had some wonderful adults about around me he just wanted my they wanted to make me to experience life before talking about it like in front of everyone I think it was really important and I think that it went on a bit too long I
think that when I was 25 26 I was like I'm really fed up of just having to perform and it always be about the voice because I am a visual creative I always have been yeah you're a Charisma trans Sam and everyone who knows you when you walk in the room gets that so it was weird watching you in this box on stage yeah yeah because also even like the
suit and the quiff and everything that was that was all stylized that was created for me and and from amazing people around me so it did it did get to a point where I was like I need to kick this door down yeah and I did and it was a hot mess for a while and now I feel like I've I've got this Rhythm and I'm harnessing what I want to do I've got
incredible artists around me I've it's like I'm becoming the artist of my dreams which is amazing feeling it's crazy the hot mess is so beautifully described because I actually think it's really important it's an important part of the process for things to get messy and yeah for you to find your voice yeah especially in pop music because I find
pop music like it is messy like if we think back to some of the biggest pop people in the world and then and pop careers it is messy yeah and and I think it's important for people to see that um but I just want people to know that what I'm making is authentic and that I'm part of every single that's never been a question I don't think I don't
think in fact I think if anything it was almost you were you were too authentic yeah that's what I mean by sacred it was almost like don't don't touch or just this perfect thing yes it gives us what we need totally and then you came out I'm gonna break it yeah yeah it's so true it's so true I had to it's always gonna happen it starts in such a tasteful way I mean we know this song
love me more and uh you know you shared that with us because I I think knowing you pretty well that there was a real Simplicity and a purity to that that reminded me of the first album but it was like sonically updated and it was that's what it felt like to me it was like I'm not divorcing my old self I've just grown that's what I took from it
yeah and for me love me more was my last uh offering to my older audience or people that were with me the past and left to say come come with me and let's experience something new for me love me more is like the end song of that so yeah old artists it reminds me of that of that era but it but it definitely has but it's got that kind of like the sort of the Soul quarian's bum like that
thing that's got that nice Erykah Badu D'Angelo Q-tip totally sub-based thing I wanted that warmth I wanted to start the album with like a glow of light yeah uh because things get slow um thinking about the journey to this album I'm thinking about each each album plays a really important role and I I love it when artists make 5 10 15 20
albums because they all change shape as another one gets made and I think music is Kinder to older music that it perhaps got a rough deal at the time yes do you know what I mean so but but I want to just spend a couple of minutes talking about thrill yes yes I struggle to even look at the cover of thrill and I'm not a judgmental person because you you do you you you know you
live how you want to live eat what you want to eat work out don't work out whatever like be happy is all I care about and you could tell when someone's happy they're not happy you just don't look happy on that cover I mean I was starving I was hungry I was generally hungry yeah it's a wild thing to look back at you some of those pictures and
be like whoa because people don't I think people don't realize I'm six foot two yeah um I'm a big person so six foot twelve right now yeah I know it's huge wouldn't be incredible but to get myself to like I was I got to like 13 stone like I was small enough did you think you looked good did you feel good about that oh no complete body just Morpher I thought it
was big I thought it was I thought I was overweight which is quite scary yeah and it was um I think it was a reaction to fame I think it was a control mechanism within my second album because there was a lot of pressure out around me yeah on that record and the pressure I put on myself um but also I think I needed to do it because I always needed to get to that
way in a weird way to see how it felt to look back on it yeah because I thought that was what was beautiful um so and getting there and being conscious of how ill I was has made me learn so much from it but it is crazy it's crazy also I remember with that cover actually for the level I deliberately chose the one where I looked really sick why because I wanted
because the album was it was meant to be dark it was meant to feel dark like it was meant to fill yeah exhausted yeah because that's what I was and that was that was the honest place I was in and I wasn't worried about sharing that so I definitely chose the cover that that was true and honest was anyone worried did anyone your family or your friends or I
don't know your friend in your business team are the same did anyone take your side at any point and say we appreciate the journey you've been on and the music is wonderful but it's just is this the move well I think that I was managing to like hold down like a really intense job and tour around the world so I don't think anyone was too worried they thought I was okay
at times um but I think what happened it was it was after that it was after after the halfway through the thread of all tour um when I started to to have this conversation about gender and stuff like that that's when and my mental health got quite intense my because I have OCD right so so my OCD got really bad and um that's when it all started to unravel
and then it unraveled for like two years and it and so I was holding it together for a while but my my family were always they always check in on me and you've got a great relationship with your family yeah they're incredible they're incredible and they're always watching my mental health and stuff identify with that in many ways uh you know it's part
of the conversation I've been having throughout my life with increased volume yes yeah for us to even be able to acknowledge that now I mean it's beautiful it's wonderful you know and as someone who also has OCD yeah I mean I remember when I sort of realized that my OCD and my pure OCD was kind of at the source of what was driving me crazy yeah and for a while I
thought like I'm in the wilderness here like I do not know how to rationalize with my mind yeah it's scary as hell it scares I'm I didn't know you had it but then I had I had pure too and it's like people don't really understand like it's you get I get you can get into such a dark place really dark place and you immediately separate yourself from the
reality of how other people see you and all you can see is yourself through the lens of the OCD yes which is I'm crazy um I'm crazy why is this happening yeah it took me a lot of years to actually kind of therapy and things like that to sort of figure out that the the me here that sits here with you is a good dude yes yeah yeah yeah because because my
city would just be like nah man you're nuts yeah you're nuts you have disastrous thoughts you think everything's crashing out around you people are gonna die it's just it's really tough going and I know a few artists who have been through it and um you know it it really can affect your sense of stability in a big way yeah 100 it really can and I think it's like
I call myself a recovering perfectionist I feel like that's how I feel it's like okay yeah I mean every day I'm like it's okay to not be perfect I've got to you know and I really do think I would have always had this but I do think Fame and my job has exasperated it you any sort of closer as you go through life and I mean you just do the work naturally but
I don't know whether you also do the work proactively and talk to therapists oh yeah I've got that I have a therapy for nearly over four years yeah yeah so I love it I love it and I know it's not for everybody I know not everybody can afford it and it can it can be seen as a luxury but it I definitely think if you're going to put time into your body
or put time into your lifestyle you should also put time into your mind 100 are you really sort of closer as you go forward like where you think The Strife of perfectionism this desire to express yourself even though really deep down you're really sensitive and vulnerable what drives that and and where it actually came from I think it came from
my just like all of us our childhood you know I I was I was an isolated gay kid in a village I didn't experience certain things growing up I remember like just with the the bullying in school and stuff it was it was I went to places in my head even because of my career like the idea of being famous or well known or being a successful singer was was where I would go to in my mind was it
revenge you to the boys in school like it was like that's how I'm gonna get my my power my power back my voice back powerful fuel there yeah it's crazy and it fueled it fueled it if like it's how I got here in a way like yeah and um it's so it and in a way I've I actually still do it sometimes but now I do it in a more healthy way because it's at the
hope of things is is a beautiful thing to curl up into and at the basis of all of it Fame was never what I truly curled up into it was music and that's what saved me again in the last three four years and and I just can't believe that music has to save me again and again and again and again see music is the good stuff but but the desired for fame fame
is the Revenge fuel yes 100 that's like if they can just see me on stage yeah they'll know they kick the wrong dog you know they punch the wrong horse totally but what I didn't realize is I if if I got there and I did that I didn't realize that I'd feel even more isolated so what is that about though because you hear this all the time and I think it's
something that people struggle to understand who aren't in the Arts who don't have success in the Arts and it's quite a common you've read it I've read it we've seen it in many articles the more I got the mdri guy it didn't solve anything yeah yeah what's that about I think it's attention seeking and like I just want everyone to look at you and then everyone looks at you and you're
like this is it felt better when I dreamed about it right right because you probably don't even know who you are that they're looking at yeah totally and then also it's this weird thing where it's like carry on looking at me you better not look at me because if you don't I'm gonna I don't know it's who I am it's my identity now yeah so it's a
very odd thing I've had to like I've really had to step away and push against it to get to a place now where I don't it isn't something I think about anymore yeah and network identity is crucial and you talked about um making that really fundamental change as to how you see yourself and the hope that others will see you that way yeah and um you did so at a time when I I
think you were very you are remaining you remain a very powerful voice in helping change people's perceptions on what it is to be human and these tags and these genres we give this video ourselves as a species yeah yeah it's almost like a living genre really yeah no it is um this is the only question I came and prepared in my head with go for it hit
me um because I'm really genuinely interested to know how the experience been a few years now how the experience has been since you've come out as as you know neutral and how you found it what your learnings have been what you've learned about people The Good the challenging how it's how it's been how it's going so we've got two sides really my personal
life and then my public life and in my personal life it's it's been there's not one negative um my family have a they can communicate with me they always did but they they communicate with me now in an even better way my my love life my as as has become better from it I I feel lovable I I feel comfortable in my skin but I I wear what I want to want to wear I I
truly just joy in abundance has has been pre-expression yeah since changing my pronouns it's it felt like a coming home I wish I knew what it was what the words were when I was in school because I would have I would have identified as that in school and you would afford for it 100 100 because it is who I am and and it's who I've always been
um I think all the only negatives in the struggle have been in my public life and my job and just the amount of hate and um shitness that's just that came my way was just exhausting and it was really hard and it's not like this isn't me like sitting at home Googling my name and and seeing things of me like this is what people hold their thoughts what people have to
understand it's really hard to avoid hate yes when you're in the public eye everyone can say don't look for it don't search yourself it's people will find a way to tell you we don't like you like me one of those crazy news like it was it was hard not to look but for me I can deal with not Googling myself not reading comments that's something I can
control what people don't realize with trans non-binary people in the UK is it's happening in the street yeah like I'm being abused in the street verbally more than I ever have so that was the hardest part I think was being at home in the UK and like having people showering a Ministry across the street someone spat me like in the street it's crazy
yeah in that particular moment as someone who gives so much and puts your heart into your music and shares with people oh how do you feel in that moment like has it I don't know I feel I feel every day when us people ask me for pictures and like I'm I'm nice I'm kind I'm I've always been very open and one I think I'm good in that sense like I've I've
really worked hard to please people every day when I'm walking down the street but I think it's just what I find hard about it is it's like if that's happening to me and I'm famous I'm a pop star yeah can you imagine what other kids like queer kids are feeling and it's just so sad like that we're in 2023 and it's still happening it's exhausting
and especially in England especially in England like it's been crazy to like be in New York and L.A because I feel like I can dress and be myself more in these cities than I can at home so that's a wild feeling to because America's a complex place and it's a wild feeling to like if I went to the White House the other month and having Biden stand up and say all these things and and say
talking about trans people and how he sees them he sees us you see us I haven't heard that in my own country it's beautiful my politics and it was it was powerful yeah the only I don't you know I was going to say there's a there's a little bit of a detention sadness to the way the political system is built in this country when statements like that are made unfortunately you
know just around the corner from potentially in the Contra contrasting an alternative approach of course which is destructive but it's good to hear it's stay in that moment it's so good to stay in that moment because that in that moment somebody with the with the on the largest Podium with the loudest mic yeah said that one of the most important
things and you were there yeah I was there questioning yourself it was wild I was on a video shoot and we got an email that they said from the White House it was crazy they know that as well what I love about the White House is they know it's the biggest mic drop it's not like they could easily do it stealth it could be from the office of some random place
and it's like look this is how we roll we keep things on the rest but no official stamp the White House it was crazy it was crazy it was beautiful what'd it say it said President Biden's asking if Sam's free um to perform immediately my anxiety came over my head like oh my God thought the Grammys was scary like how the hell am I going to
get things the good stuff there right there oh I can't do it I can't do it and you already know you have to do you have to do it but it was like it was like two weeks before we were so it was like quick turnaround which is good but crazily went there and I didn't have one ounce of nerves interesting it was nuts I was I felt so calm it was like it was it was really
beautiful because I I was in that moment I was like you know what all my therapy or my work yeah that I've done on myself is paying off like I'm feeling good and I was there with my my bvs my singers and all my musicians and all my family my team and we like we shared the moment I had my cute little handbag Kamala said she loves my handbag which was really nice
it was a wild feeling having like the guards yeah announced my name and then walk out the doors yeah it was crazy and what are you what were you staring at what could you see I was just I remember being behind the doors and the president was behind us and watching it and then they all left the room to go and watch me from the front yeah and then I just
stepped out and it was it was such a beautiful sunny day and I was like I'm at the White House I'm surrounded by the gays and the queers and we're celebrating some good news like it feels like it's sad but it's a rare thing um sometimes within our community so it was really beautiful to be able to celebrate that did you get some face time with Iceman Ice Man the president
I swear I love that um yeah I did I did I got to like spend some time with them all four and they were all lovely yeah yeah Kamala said that she played my song at her wedding which I was very much she didn't say which style so hopefully she was telling the truth um um yeah I she was really really sweet and they were all really lovely and kind and
um yeah it was mad it was a mad experience I can hear an uh the room next door I just did quiet I don't know if it's getting picked up yeah this amazing choir of just incredible singers who have come together to help you bring to life some of these songs for Saturday Night Live this week and when this is being filmed it's SNL this weekend I can tell you something what so
cool the first performance is Unholy with me and Kim and I'm in this huge pink dress and I'm gonna lift the pink dress up as she's under the room which is going to be sick and then the second performance I wanted to do my the hymn Gloria that I wrote for the record which is a wild one because I'm not even hot I'm hardly singing on it and I sing at the end of it
um but it's a whole choir and on my tour the stage is shaped like Aphrodite it's like the golden Aphrodite Aphrodite body and that's the shape of the stage yeah and I was like how can we like bring that vibe to SNL and um Sharon Stone is going to be in the middle of the stage at SNL in gold as like a like a piece of life art and the whole performance is just the
choir around her singing Gloria to her in like this golden lie yes she said yes I'm like was she your number one choice yeah yeah we were talking about that it has to be Sharon Stone and I messaged her and she's why what does Sharon Stone mean to you she's just just such a powerful woman but she's a powerful woman and she exudes vulnerability and Beauty in in a in a
way that to me is is real one of the most iconic movie stars the last 50 years yeah yeah I mean like when they made real movie stars yeah yeah back in the day that's going to be crazy you put quite a crew together for this album amazing people really great people I mean people that you've known for a long time you know trusted old friends and
some people who have you know come into your life in the last few years I mean Jesse don't even get me started she's one of the most talented writers an incredible performer and just carries herself such an excellent way yeah I'm not surprised you two are besties I mean she did she did something for me that was crucial I mean it was during
promises with Calvin um being in the studio without I've only ever written with guys and so being in the studio with her uh she showed me a way of of speaking through song that I hadn't been shown before and and allowed me to talk about loads of different emotions that have why the other guys maybe weren't too comfortable talking about and for that I'm indebted
to her forever she's incredible I also think she's one of the most forceful talents in the industry we have I agree I think her writing is makes me think of Winehouse and some of the greatest songwriters ever I think yeah I think I honestly think she's a she's a long-term bet so I think you'll look back on it 20 years time and what she achieves over steady and really
productive amazing period of time will be the career of a dream 100 she's incredible sometimes it takes time doesn't it to realize that you've got greatness in your hands like that yeah well it's funny because I feel like you've you you're playing that game now it happened to you so you you played both it's like oh let me sell 20 million
albums and now let me get into a place where actually the work is steady and Brilliant and amazing and yeah then on holy comes along and you know how to handle it did you know how to handle it how did it feel different this time I'd imagine to have something different that was like such an a quick single driven I mean you've had big songs before but they found out part of
the body of work yes yeah and just I don't know you told me how does it feel I mean in total God's honest truth it was I was exhausted by the time that song came out interesting because I had to push so hard like people that I trusted my whole life and my music didn't even want that song on the album wow you know they was everyone was petrified of that song was there a
reason do you think that can you can you come up with one fundamental reason why people were unsure about it he said petrified what were they scared of me carrying the brand but I kept I don't understand what I am the brand so like whatever I do is is on brand and it's not their fault I don't I don't blame anyone for this but if someone doesn't
think something is beautiful that they don't think it's beautiful and all I've ever wanted anyone around me to to be as truthful and honest with me and they were and they didn't think that I was looking beautiful or that it sounded beautiful I had to trust my instincts because I'm looking at the kids around me nowadays and I'm looking at you know I
think it's one of the beautiful things about being queer is that I go to queer bars and they're these melting pots of all different people from all different places and you you you realize how free people are getting yeah you know and a lot of the team that work around me now they have their families they they live in their areas and they don't go to bars
like they used to and stuff like that so I do think there was an element where I was just like you guys I don't think you get this I can't grow that way yeah yeah I don't think you're understanding where what I'm trying to do and it was a real pull and tug like it was it was we weren't communicating for for a while but I also had people telling me from you know like quite
important people that what I was doing the way I was living my life was affecting my record sales and that I was trash the word trash was was said to me at one point oh and I just and I had to like I had to like have that person get out of the room alive that is a straw but it's but it is it's it's homophobia and transphobia that's that's structural and
it's yeah it's within people even the people that are very loving and liberal and love me that they say things they don't realize what they're saying is is hurtful and and you know trash in the in the queer Community is is kind of something that we all harness in a beautiful way you know like yeah the bars are trash yeah because and then Holly is beautifully trashy 100
yeah there's nothing for me I think Chic classy things nowadays are trashy and that's okay I think it's beautiful I think they always have been to some extent yeah and also you can be both you know you can you can you know where these types of things then also go absolutely wild when you want to this one on holy is that's why I connected was because it was it was one
of those great moments that was on the surface it seemed so overt but actually it was super subversive yeah yeah totally because all of the you know Housewives and everyone was like it's like oh it's so subversive it's gotten under the skin of society yeah oh my God hearing you say that it makes my life like because I daydreamed about that
song I like sat there listened to it by myself in my garden and like I've never been so obsessed with music like I was with this record and especially Unholy yeah like I lived inside that song for like two years and just pushed and pushed it and I've got so many people that are part of that song and the writing process they're incredible there's one person that's Ilya who
without him that someone would be here because he from day one even in the studio when the day that we started writing that song everyone was like this is an interlude all this is like this could be on the part part two of the record or like or even like this isn't going to be on your record yeah but Ilya just saw something light up in me when
we started writing it and you could see that I loved where we were going and we started working with each other on that song in in time that wasn't given to us from the label in terms of writing we'd I'd be in LA and he'd be like come in the studio and we just Tinker away at things and change words and move words and add production here and there and he
trusted me all the way through it's my guy even though no one I mean a few everyone came on board in the last minute but Max Martin as well was a huge part of it because he he was behind it and had heard it from Ilia and he said this is really exciting oh you need these pop songs to come along once in a while that just like I said they they
sort of detonate in the room he's like oh what is this like it must be my dream as an artist like that is I'll never forget like when I was first described as a crooner like I love crooners don't get me wrong it's fabulous but when I saw that I was like oh [Music] when I'm in my like Vegas judic Island mode well I think I think I think also
it obviously didn't help as the wrong phrase but I can't think of anything different to say it didn't assist that predicament that you went straight off in the Lonely Hour and straight into Bond yes yes so you went into the ultimate croon totally totally I I actually think I I played that role like even with the queer from the zoo I like dramatized that role like it was you
know I in the 10-year anniversary in the Lonely Hour next year I want to put my suit back on and get my Cliff grown and and and put the exact same outfit and play it because I want people to see that it genuinely was a character you should subvert it just like on holy did you should you should update it yeah so now I'm just like no it's just two
friends talking I'm getting my Med advice that you want to no yeah I will you should totally don't go back to the original suit you should totally just be like oh the guy in the suit is no no longer a guy oh I love that and it's changed the situation they now wear the suit very differently to how he wants it that's true it's true I will you can take those songs in a
really cool way one of my favorite songs on there is a little Tad more sort of straight down the line but I think lyrically and thematically it's incredible which is um how to cry yes it's just the idea of like you know you never learned how to cry you learn how to be a bad a bad person but you never learned how to cry um where were you when that concept sort
of came to mind and what really inspired that I mean after Unholy and rinsing the guy who is about so hard is there a guy it's about yeah yeah so it's about someone yeah oh yeah wow do they know it's about them um I think they do now yeah somehow got around them but also I don't it's about them but also there's there's nothing special about them Jesus there's so many
of them about like it's not about them it's about it's about a wider conversation can you imagine the anxiety of being the person that a song that's all about keeping the Biggest Secrets is all about but they know they're arrogant they love it they love it they love it so they are literally that textbook narcissist yes yeah totally totally they are and they
just wow and they don't they're losing um they don't have empathy you know they're a bit Psychopathic I think so it's how to cry it was like the song I put it directly after Unholy because I wanted it to be this moment of like even though you're in a knob and you piss me off and I think you're gross and not in America sorry Norman Britain is a just in
case you're wondering I'm not sure if you guys know what knob means one of the great insults to have been exported from the United Kingdom you knob no it's up there yeah but um he as long as much as he is an idiot I just feel bad for him truly that's what I generally that's even worse but I do it's no I mean for him it's even worse yeah but I don't know if I'll ever
like care but it's it's just like you hurt people because you can't love people yeah you know and I think that's what the sentiment of that song is you know I I want to talk about um the last song on the record yes which is the which is the big anticipated collaboration between yourself and Ed Sheeran he's such a special man he's
such a special man we've had a beautiful friendship and music and stuff like I've always felt it always have to happen organically yeah yeah um he sent me that song the beginnings of it and I was immediate uncomfortable because I I don't do that I I don't get sent songs and then sing on them unless it's like a collab thing someone's like um so it was a bit of an ego moment at
first like I just feels weird like if I wanted to do something I wanted to be in the room right yeah with him from the beginning but that was all that was before I heard it and then I clicked play and it was just one of those moments it was like I can spend my whole two years trying to write all these pop records right and I feel like I've done a good
job on this album and I wanted to write an amazing pop album and I feel like I've written some amazing pop songs um but Ed and Ed's ability to write music let's turn a phrase it's just beautiful how's he doing it's just so special how's he doing it's so special it's it's um it's one of life's absolute guarantees absolutely it's gorgeous when you press
play on the Ed Sheeran song even if you don't like Ed Sheeran you will come to the end of it and there will be a beautiful natural conclusion and something will have been shared that leads to a learning if you allow it totally it's magical it's magical and it felt it felt so beautiful on I'd done about nine songs of the record that I was happy with and I was like this is
this is how I'm gonna end the end the album like I it's something beautiful and generous for me that I love I love this feeling of I've done what I've need to do now I'm going to step aside and have Ed come and help me do this and finish it with me and I wrote my verse I wrote the bridge and we collaborated on on the whole record but um it was a beautiful thing to share
with him and I think that we both sound super vulnerable I feel like yeah his voice sounds really yeah really vulnerable and that's one of the things I was drawn to in the song was just you know Ed can do a lot of things vocally he's got a great Rhythm yeah and he can definitely hold his notes but even when he's singing his more emotional songs
he's performing them I don't feel he's performing on this song no no it's totally him like raw yeah the message behind the song is so beautiful it's like it's just a really classic love song for everyone everyone and people who have gone yes yes that's the line that really got me as well as is even for the people who are no longer here yeah yeah because I'm sure there are
people who are watching this who have lost someone recently or not recently who are struggling to let go yeah and want to stop loving that person and in a weird way because it's too painful totally but it's too powerful isn't it you can't get away from it can't get away from it how are you now with the idea of loss and leaving things behind
now that you're moving in such a powerful New Direction and things just feel good like have you come to terms with that with that idea of like it's okay oh my God what to lose people of course I want to lose things but just loss totally I'm I'm I'm in a better place for it for sure I feel like I no matter what happens I have me and that's a crazy feeling because and a
beautiful feeling that I know that I've got myself and I've and and I support myself and I'm I'm always going to have that no matter what but I haven't actually been through a lot of grief in my life yeah does that scare you a bit the thought of it oh my God yeah yeah totally because I haven't I've I've I've I've only lost grandparents and stuff
which is a natural order of things though yeah exactly so that that will be an another a part of the movie that I think I'll struggle with for sure but it's gonna happen isn't it and we can prepare by talking about it which I think is beautiful yeah so where does all this momentum go next on tour right on tour I mean I saw MSG in the diary when I opened up the
internet the other day and I was like oh good to have you back in that room yeah it's gonna be beautiful it's gonna be for the tours could be amazing I mean I'm putting on a proper theater pop performance it's gonna be wild inspired by who um Freddie Mercury like slash Opera like operas and and it's going to be wild like even like a lot of Bob Fosse has
come into it with uh with Unholy and with a lot of the music I've been doing it's like Camp Liberace theater theater that's what I want to go for so I'm really excited about that I'm excited about the clothes um but I mean I have my next three albums planned like genuinely interesting like and and possibly half of them are written yeah I have a very
clear aim that I want to bring out probably another four records before I'm 35. because at 35 I want to go traveling you're in plan mode where the new songs written in the aftermath of the success of Unholy or have you been doing it simultaneously while you've been making Gloria well there's a there's a whole lot of work that was done at the same
time it's quite interesting because of Unholy yeah um I've gone back and listened to certain songs yeah how they how do they sound well I think there's quite a lot of music that the team and people didn't really C is being amazing because now there was a lot more in that vein and now after a platinum single they're like that's a great song yeah which which I've I've
always known like some of these songs are crazy it's sex it's the element of sex that is honestly what this is it's like it's I've been desexualized since I was I was a young artist it was something that we didn't go near um uh because it made people uncomfortable made the men uncomfortable in my in my life so the fact that now that they're
getting comfortable with my sexiness it's just like oh my God there's so much to play with you've unleashed a beast yeah I saw on the internet the other day someone was like Sam Smith obsessed with tattoos I know tattoo addiction I have got a lot how many you got I'm filling up now is that over 35. from your perspective what drives the
mentality of collecting tattoos rather than just one what what does it unlock well I got my first it's quite actually fascinating I got these when I was like 15 16. right as the gender to gender signs interesting I got it because I said I was best to both for the term yeah when I was like 15. you were looking for the police tattoos yeah and then now I'm just like it's
like a notebook what's the what's the stupidest one you have either strawberry on my phone this is her name's Sally the slightly strawberry and she's got a bra and knickers and she's got um suspenders and hills and she's just there on my thigh why well I just saw this tattoo artist who made strawberries and I was like Count Me In I feel like a strawberry
what's the most meaningful one uh uh if there is one actually popped my anchor on my neck I got it recently wouldn't buy that because it's the first song I wrote completely by myself was a song called little sailor when I was 18 and that's the song that I sent to Elvin and sent to my managers and then they heard that and then I got in the studio with Jimmy
wrote let me down wrote latch wow like that song changed my life and that's why I've called The Fan Sailors that's cool and the anchors now become part of my like name and stuff and so I put it on my throat because that's that's the thing I did like it's I'd say it's my most important all right little sailor shut up oh my God love you love you thanks for another
wonderful album thanks for still being here thank you thank you I don't think we can ever take it for granted especially when you go through real life stuff it's not just about the Performing and the music and entertainment everything else it's about sticking around yeah it's about having the courage to keep going totally totally thank you for helping me with that always