I didn't invent espresso the song is not about so my espresso you don't own espresso it's what's so crazy like this is the part of me that feels like an idiot every time I see like a cafe there's just a sign that says espresso and I'm like yes [Music] like there's lots of ways we can start this conversation oh it's Sabrina Carpenter Earth shattering chart destroying Mega pop star it's not where I want to start it's not where I want
oh oh my God what's happening what's happening oh no I want to start because I want to start wait do you do this a are you going to serenate me I don't do the Ron Burgundy trick very often I I don't pull the flute from my inner sleeve for just anybody are you about to sing at me I'm not going to sing at you but I'm going to I'm going to talk about where things start okay while because singing because sometimes like there's a
lot of ways to start an interview and there's a lot of ways to start a song oh No I'm going to cry because so amazing did you learn this dud right now I knew it when I heard it cuz the the chords are ingrained in me like they are millions of people because they're so beautiful so amazing and when you heard these chords and they turned into dumb and poetic which is heartbreaking and funny and aurbic super dark at times and like you
know then a Cohen will never sound the same to me again I'm sorry to that man sorry to all fans but it's so beautiful man it's just FL it FL it just flows thank you that means a lot well I want to start there because all and rightfully so people really care about the other songs right now cuz they're unshakably brilliant and they're everywhere but I wanted to let people know that when they hear the album
they're going to go somewhere else because you've really made an amazing modern pop record Sabrina congratulations love it the sound effects you get one really I have none so I'll just use voice it's by Design only I get the sound effects that's fair how did you know you finished it the album yeah uh very different from my last album where I I questioned it until like the day before it came out like is it done and could I
have changed it and could I have written another song and to be fair I I do have a hard time with the fact that do feel like life doesn't stop so like it's really hard to tell when a chapter of your life should be bookend what is time yeah it doesn't really make sense other than the fact that you just have a feeling I know it sounds very cliche but you just know and there was a moment where I I just knew and it wasn't even
like oh and I I and I wrote the 12 song or you know it was just it was all of these things that I had been trying to kind of put into words for um a brief chapter in my life that I was like you know what I'm good for the next week and then I'm going to write another album it's like I was just ready to to close it and also I just will never forget this this album for teaching me so much about myself you can hear it this I mean
you talked about there was a lot of words there was a lot of intention put into this record to try to close the as I said before we were chatting close the loop on some stuff yeah and you can't help but learn about yourself in that process I I think that's the unspoken beauty of being an artist that we all talk about the the trade and what we get as as fans and everything else but not often is it do
we really talk about the growth that you get to go through and the change that you become after making a body work like this how have you really changed Sabrina like where's the change I've been thinking a lot about this this morning and I kind of have been thinking about it in the sense of like it's one thing to be like people always say like is it scary to be vulnerable in your songs it's actually not it's becoming not
scary to be vulnerable in my songs it's becoming scary to allow everything about me to be misunderstood and to not let it change me to let go yeah to let to let go and to not like to be stronger than the negative things that people say about you like to you know just not let it chip pieces of yourself away but you're a 25-year-old human being who grew up in the internet so then right so so unfortunately you're wired to listen
totally and so and so to cut those wires to be able to allay off the space to process yeah that information and and give it the value that it's worth which is zero zero dollars so how do you do that I mean obviously you haven't figured it out because it's a lifelong journey but like how are you practicing that that discipline so this might be why I'm an and I think about this a lot like I go okay like
realistically yes it's it's about like I'm not one of those artists too that's going to shut myself off from Reading every little thing about me I would rather know and accept it and be like well that's what they think and I think this interesting so so it streng pretend it's not there you use it as a as a way to strengthen your resolve correct and I think it's it's been instilled in me like I I started posting videos on
YouTube when I was 11 for what reason I don't know why thank you to my parents um well also thank you to your parents but also like I mean if I I mean yes thank you but as parents you also got to like you hope for the best right because you're like we're letting her do this because she wants to do it but we don't know what the internet is this was like 14 years ago and thank God they did because I started reading mean things
then and being like wow and being like like my my parents were almost more offended than I was and I had to be like but they might be having a bad day and I was like 12 so I try to go back to that mindset now when I think about the way that people receive things but all this to say I've been really enjoying my last few moments with this album as my own and then and then it being in the world hate to break it to you it's mine now
too it is yours too it is yours too but you had very nice things to say about it so I'm actually fine with this and you got a great Deluxe album title as well for your team when you come out with extra tracks short and sweet and an short and sweet and and I just love the idea that you get to cherish it for a little bit longer most people are in such a hurry to get it out and I think you obviously have such a good relationship within
yourself you know yourself enough to appreciate the the the the the work you put in and the music you have just just to enjoy it you still listening to it literally on the way here I was like I was like got to stream it doesn't count now not even counting these streams don't count man just like this is not going to add up to any billb chat stat whatsoever yeah I'm not really helping myself um no I I I
also really love the fact that like kind of what you said the things that people are expecting because of I think it was like a in a weird way the the last few songs being what they are has been such a a blessing to have people understand a side of myself that is so you know ruminating through the whole record but I really love that people also don't you know expect they know what's coming yeah like I'm a I'm a
well-rounded person you know I I like to believe that I have you know good days bad days like any other person some things I find really funny some things I find not funny at all what don't you find funny um just like people I mean people honestly so many people I don't find funny you know it's true it's true people could be unfunny people can be so unfunny unny oh my God and that's honestly what inspired so many funny lyrics in the album people
not being real unfunny moment around people yesterday when I saw some people with some influence using it in ways I found really and I should we go into that no this is the other thing too about humor it's it's so um it's so dependent on the person and that's been a it's been a tricky thing because sometimes I ride the line just sometimes well but this is the thing we joked about this last time we spoke certain people can
ride the line and get to the other end some people fall the off because they just don't have the thing that people want to what they want to root for the other thing is I think a lot of what I also really love about this album is is like the accountability for you know oh for sure just just being you're on your own ass as much as you're on everybody else's absolutely I I will I will you know call myself out just as
much as I will call out someone else and and I think that's the part of life that I I mean taste is not kind to you no no you know no it's it's it says a lot about my own you know character in moments and and mistakes that I openly like allow myself to make oh that's an interesting way to phrase it because most people make mistakes and then they pay pendants for it later and they almost reject the concept of
allowing yourself it was In the Heat of the Moment I lost my temper something happened but what you're saying is that there are moments in life when you allow yourself to have that experience for reasons only you know and maybe that happened because I think about this a lot now because I started like working at a young age and so I I never went to prom I never went to like I don't know I never had like a crazy summer school
tripping friends like I never did those things and so I think about life right now as like even though I'm writing songs I'm still 25 and I'm still living a life as as a human being that like I want to feel everything yeah and that's got to be interesting line to walk because as a songwriter and someone who's becoming more and more visible you know people talk about how that affects your freedoms or your or your or or your
Curiosities because you have to check yourself at the door but you don't strike me as somebody who wants that you strike me as somebody who wants to actively try to reject those boundaries and those restrictions I just don't want to live out of fear of trying to make sure that I don't upset anyone God what a terrible life that would be it's really bad and I and I know that that also comes with like the moment you
upset people and and they go it's so big that you're like well I guess I know where my line is now but but this is why you know all this to say like you keep you keep good friends around you that know like who you are well I want to talk about friends because you talked about being when you were young working hard and missing out on some of those key beats in life that allow you to a key beat though cuz I've heard about it
no most kids don't care anymore at least the kid well how the do I know I'm so past prom but from my experience of watching it Through The Eyes of some this is a dangerous lying because now I'm clearly speaking on behalf of my kids no look I think F I'm walking away I'm crazy David I'm walking away I'm walking away we're learning so much about Zade in this interview that was not the point it's
not going to go on it's okay it's okay but we talked we're talking about friends I don't know I think prom matters to the people who who who think High School is is a still formative experience I think some people can't wait to leave in which case prom is a step in the direction that way but I think for you you didn't see a lot of that so did you make friends easily do you think of your childhood is being a
life full of Friends by no means was it like heaps and loads of you know but I I have made really selective friendships that have lasted me since I was a child to now you know I and I've talked to people about this about like I I really do sometimes even when I like start dating someone or when I like meet someone for the first time like I like to know how long their friendships are that's a great question though I think it says so much about a
person and not not the fact that you know some people change and you have to meet people later in your life cuz that's also important some of my best friends I met maybe like two or three years ago now but I also have some from when I was 12 or 13 that are still my friends that are really important to me also my sisters course my best how many sisters I have three older sisters and I'm the baby you're the baby so that's
why I'm an this is the other thing like if anyone knows about that that says a lot about me as well but yeah so I I that says a lot for other people and then also for me as well I think just I I really count on those those friendships to kind of keep me super grounded you know grounding is a is a is a through line in this in this album um in terms of the relationships that that you're writing about um it
sounds like some lost their footing and it sounds like some have established you know a grounding place for you and so I I do feel a thread running through this album of not just self-discovery but also um getting through the heartache and heartbreak that can often um man it can it can really break you for a long time and and I I get I get the feeling even with the humor and with a healthy dose of judgment and some of these songs
that you were hting real bad thank you yes um I called it short and sweet for multiple reasons like it was not because I'm vertically challenged it was it was really like I thought about some of these relationships and how some of them were the shortest I've ever had and they affected me the most um you know I I think about the way that I respond to situations and sometimes it is very nice and sometimes it's it's not very nice um
and again the the thing about albums projects writing songs it's all moments so harder for other people to understand that when they're listening to something that's going to take them through maybe a lot of years um hopefully a lot of years is that you know I'm not the same person that I was when I wrote that yeah we love to timestamp you at this moment when we hear This Record like who's breaking your heart right now wait a
minute if it's a good one you'll never let it go to some degree M I think yeah and and that's I I yearn for that and I've always yearned for that I've always yearned to care enough about a a person or a situation or relationship in my life that it provokes that much feeling in me cuz I think that's that's why we're here I think I agree I agree but you know in fness to the human connection it's a cuz I I can relate
it's a lot to ask of people too yeah you know when when you find yourself in a situation where you're yearning for something to be meaningful enough for it for it to affect you yeah um physiologically spiritually holistically correct you know you want your heart to grow a little bit more yeah you know it's it's a it's you got to pace it man and it's tough right and you get what you ask for and then you come out on the
other end either bruised and scorned or like a little funnier and and a little smarter right you know maybe both humor yeah I love the way that you work with humor and that you Embrace humor in your music and I think that some people do it because it's funny but I think you do it CU if you don't laugh you'll cry is that is that the place of is that it it's the perfect way to describe it and also like when you're when you're at
this point in your life where you're like almost at your Wits End everything is funny everything can be funny cuz it's all stupid and it just feels like and by the way at the end of the day what are we going to remember yeah really like what's going to be in our memories I'm really thinking about that cuz just cuz I'm old as no no no you're not I mean when I put the pulled the guitar when you pull the guitar it was
like oh this is definitely an aging experience it was it was humbling for you I thought I played it really delicately it was so beautiful though and I and I will never forget it all right moving on swiftly but I was going to say something about what you were just talking about what were you just talking about oh how funny you are and our being right now no you know what's interesting is is whenever I'm with my friends we always talk about
the moments that we were all laughing so hard remember that one oh my God and the funniest thing happened why is humor like yeah the thing that sticks with us it's like those are the memories that we really do hold on to for such a long time longer than the moments where we were like fighting at each other whenever I've had fights with people we always forget what we were fighting about but whenever we had an inside joke
it lasts forever so I know I know that that sounds like very simple when you break it down but I think so much of this album was made in the moments because I it was something that I just couldn't stop laughing about and I was like well that might as well just be a whole song all right well let's do an experiment can you remember without going into detail cuz that's between you and whoever it was with what the context
of the last fight you had was about I think it was it was something stupid about about my dog right yeah because my yeah we we got a new dog and this is like it's so stupid when you when you like break down like he like in my room you got the dog right no it's my mom's dog and he in my room so you had a fight because Mom's dog in your room mom's dog in my room and no one cleaned it up see this is what we fight
about this is what we fight about but then when you think about the fight I'm like same the dog in my room no one cleaned it up well I mean yeah my sister ended up cleaning it up so shout out to Sarah thank you for doing that I'll throw up if I I can't clean up you can't clean up oh my God I can't clean up I actually do you have a dog I do well who cleans up your dog no sorry okay I have two dogs they live with my parents because I'm
traveling a lot and I love my dogs but then they come to visit so I'm like the cool aunt they come to my house do you know who writes songs about cool aunts people who didn't have a mom people that didn't have a mom that's a good point this was so fun thank you music for I'm not trying to dog bully you I'm just I'm just interested to know no I I think that's funny though that's a really good question because it truly is like you
know you think about the things that you you last thought about and you're like it's pretty it's funny it's kind of funny and look there are significant fights that were happen in life that are worth fighting for and there are times in your life that you will feel like something shifted seismically underground because this was a real moment where it had to be resolved and the only way through it was to push and
pull not physically but like in terms of fighting that's also why there's a song on the album called chus tool and and it's that is a big one it starts in a funny way because like I think about that song and than that song weirdly even though there's more emotional songs in the album that one makes me the most emotional the song Almost ended up being actually completely different than what it was because we were way more zoomed
in on that line as opposed to it just being something that you you say and then you go oh well you know we almost kind of really went into it and then instead it was like actually it is just a fleeting thought because leave it open and also because that's the way life is you go oh actually I never we never really like solved that problem or we never really we never really had that conversation and I'm probably going to
see this person and we're just going to have to like it's not going to be the right time or place cuz there'll be people what's beautiful about leaving it open like that and just accepting that maybe you never will is that you get to sing it that way and the way you sing that chorus and people will hear this song um and this and by the way there is many different um performance environments that you've
that you that you are putting us in on this record like tell me them well slim Pickins is just like I'm just I'm in the bar man and I'm listening to you and I'm and you're an un undiscovered singer songwriter but what are you drinking I'm drinking well if I'm in a bar I'm probably drinking a whiskey or something with some Diet coconut whiskey feels right for that song yeah and I'm listening to you sing and it's like who
is this singer oh she just lives down the road she sings on a Tuesday but you just are she's local but you're just owning this room and it's just that song you just you're in that that to me it's like I know that Jack has already referred to this in Rolling Stone but there's era very early early you know um morning Breeze Dolly Parton going on here like funky Dolly Parton that's a that's a very high compliment
thank you yeah I mean every everything about Dolly but those 1970 1975 records are like outrageous right and so when she was really young um but then you go into this place like you do on sharpest tool and even on don't smile there's relationships between these songs and the way that you're performing them certainly in the chuses with a softness that carries a weight to it thank you it it does it does but I just
it's so nice to hear like yeah I just I I appreciate so much the way that you hear I love your ears yeah same I'm as of very recently I'm very protective and very grateful for them um I want to talk about don't smile because it's a real standout for me thank you I love that song I love the sentiment of like don't you dare don't you dare walk away like this was something to cherish like this ended and it should be
heartbreaking yeah um can you tell us a story about making that song you know it's funny I usually really really write from firsthand experience every song on the album is something that happened to me except for that song wow and that song did end up happening to me in so many ways which is why it was easier to write but the seed of the idea came from my friend that was experiencing heartbreak in that moment and a very
visceral like it was a very heartbreaking situation and again you felt it you felt it I felt it but also like a little who was like just going to write this song and and I think that but was your intention to take it and write a song because it was material that was worthy of being written about or was it because you felt it and felt well also that saying is something that was just so it's like on every Pinterest like
board on every sewn pillow that you've ever seen like you know but the opposite you know don't cry because it's over smile because it happened yeah and I I was like that yes like actually that so yeah that was a that was a beautiful and also just so simple I think wrote that song in France I say in like 30 minutes it was done it sounds like France was a really lucrative time for you creatively it was it was the the birth I wrote half the
record there half the record there and then half the the record in uh at Electric Lady can you tell us can you just describe your your life in France while you were there and and what it was like to write these songs because I I love I love it I love a freak creative environment and it's interesting because I'd wanted to write in France my whole life and I everyone knows this on my I kept asking I was like I just want to do
a writing trip there I just think it would be creatively inspiring I was right turns out and that was awesome but went to this little town literally there was less than a thousand people in this town it was called Chey and it was been there before why a driving through there is just about nothing there and at first I was a little nervous that I would go crazy and then I did go crazy and then how long
are you there for I was there for like 11 days which doesn't seem that long but when you are writing every day they start to blend the days start to kind of like become one because and you off tour too right I was in between tour which is wow even crazier like my mind was was in a place where it was like there is just no concerns right now I just need to write as I'm feeling because I had just finished like literally the night before
I I played a show in Paris and then right after I was done I went to I went to Japan and it was like high low high energy uh environments that were just you know it took me a couple days to sink back into writing and then when I did it ended up being all the stuff that was so honest so emotional so important to me because I was going actually crazy is that where you where you said goodbye to a lot of the old stuff weirdly enough
said said hello to a lot of things I think that's where I opened up uh what ended up being the album that's where espresso came from it's where came from yeah stupid little song but what a beautiful stupid little song it is my God and by the way some of my favorite songs are the stupidest most beautiful little songs it's so good thank you I mean just that moment where you just know that you've created something
that's phonetically unique it's just so phonetically unique is is exactly what that song is you know do you know what I mean it's it's just it's like okay so let's get to the feeling because we know how it's all made us feel when you stumbled I'm sure because you don't intentionally probably go that that me espresso when you stumble across it just it's sounds right but you're like it reads wrong but it sounds right
you know what's funny and I think I give I give credit to you know like Julian benetta who who produced the song like that's the way we talk I don't know how to describe it but like when we're in the room with each other and we made nonsense so a lot of this is adding up you know cuz cuz at that point it was sort of like there really is no rules to like the things you say and and you're not writing a song with well everyone's
going to have to understand this in mind you're just like what sounds awesome what feels awesome and what gets the story across whatever story that is the story is just like you know you are that like this is the confidence is what you embody um but in a in a way that was just so unintentional also to me it's you what my name is I mean I think it's like literally hi my name is it's like that's that me espresso it's like okay
you really need to know who I am right now this is who I am which I really was excited about especially because that song is that unapologetically confident song but I I think for years maybe people didn't accept that narrative as much as they are right now of of like confidence felt cheesy or confidence felt put on I think that's partly because of where you came from you had to be confident even as a kid when you
didn't have it I mean no kids no kid at your age on those TV shows as confident as what we as what people are seeing on TV no right no it's like your job is to be that confident yeah and your your job is also to like say things that you don't think and have the world understand yeah or that you don't understand basically procious on fleek right it's just like whoa I mean it's kind of but it's kind of what it is
right it's like it's like hey your job is to go and present a prous version of a kid who's more mature than is actually humanly possible I've interviewed a lot of kids people who are no longer Kids who' come out of that that place and you know you can see some of them it took a long time for them to figure out who they were you obviously had to go through that too how did you navigate that time what was your what was your
transition process to get out of being on that road to being Sabrina here the human being who above all the amazing music and the LOLs and this I'm having such a good time it's the fastest 30 minutes I've had long time but I just want to say that you're a good person like it's clear to me from the times I've hung out with you very briefly you're a good person so what was that transition going on it's interesting to
to reflect on it now because I I don't feel like I've changed that much I feel like the seed was always there of you know me always kind of having a direction and having you know an opinion and having an idea and steering a ship that was always there whether people you know kind of want to believe that or not it was there with a lot of obstacles in the way and a lot of walls that had to just be ripped down
and I think through obviously life experiences through being humbled through making the wrong jokes like I really have you know kind of found this place right now where I definitely don't have it all together and I don't know it all but I'm I'm really happy with with the current state of you know feeling like I'm comfortable in my body and feeling like I'm comfortable in my mind and um allowing moments to to be the
moments that I'm in and I think for a long time you know there's this idea of you have to come out the gate and smash it and if you don't do that it's it's almost like you don't know who you are or you don't know yourself and I think I'm just one of those artists that it took a few tries and I don't even think of it as it took a few tries to to be good or to be successful I just think maybe for people to to understand it and
catch on to to who I am cuz I was always like I think about old songs of mine that I released when I was quite young like 17 or 18 I put out a song called Sumi and I was getting sued the time I wrote that song and I was like I wrote a song called Sumi and it was just like a very it feels like me now but before I really understood myself and I think maybe it wasn't sonically exactly what I wanted yet or maybe it wasn't fully
written exactly the way I would write it now but but the ideas were there and like the humor was there and the cheekiness or like the the just the I don't know the direction well the ability to face a head on yeah this is the reality of my life right now I'm being sued as a teenager and so I'm and sarcastic and you know that was all that was all there can you play those songs live can you can you Embrace those
moments in time or are you happy to let them be it depends on the song so what qualifies depends on the song um I think a song that feels like it really still applies to me now versus a song that felt like you know maybe I would say that differently now so it's interesting because what what that says to me is that when it comes to entertainment you have to be entertained Above All Else and a lot of people when they go on
stage right they'll they'll play songs because they know they're going to hit a certain certain person a certain way they're it's going to work but I've had and this is kind of bit of a shitty thing to say I'll be the I've had conversations with friends of mine who are like man there were just days I don't want to play that song you know and and I I just so that's why I ask you what qualifies because you never once
said well you know if the people want it I got to play it you were like no if I want it I'll play it there's been maybe a handful of times where where I've been a generous singer to my to my longtime fans that love an old song and I've been like you know what yeah they've worked hard for this but yeah but so have you the not now literally yeah I think that's the other thing it's like I've gotone to this place where I have so
many other songs that I want to sing like we can just all collectively just like yeah this album is a a LEL now and I think it's going to put a lot of your music into into a beautiful context what one are you most looking forward to playing live wow that's such a good question I think I'm most looking forward to playing um dumb and poetic live we just did you just did actually yeah so I never have to do that um ever again I am
most looking forward to playing that song live and also really excited about light a girl's live and Juno live lighter girls is one of those moments I think where it's like you know you're really in copyright territory like just the term lighter girls and then to put yourself in the in the shoes of what girls are willing to do in order to sort of keep balance and try to figure your own way out through life right I'll
never understand that but that song takes me closer to understanding what yeah I was about to say what are you gonna say about girls right no I think that's that's the tricky thing every time I've played it for men it's sort of it is kind of that reaction of like you put that so beautifully but I don't that's such a mansplain thing tell me I didn't do that no no no but I'm saying but I'm saying in a lot of ways that is one song
on the album that maybe is like I hate to use the term for the girls but it it really is in a sense of so what should I do with it um I mean you don't think you have to do anything stream it but I have to listen to it and listening to it I'm going to feel something and I think so what would you like me to feel cuz I'll tell you I'll tell I like to tell people what to feel that's fair so I can I tell you can I can I
thoughtfully tell you what I felt absolutely I felt like I understood the dynamic between that kind of human and this type of human a little better I think that's a good thing to say yeah yeah I get that right I think that's a good thing to say it is have you ever been on the receiving end of Sabrina's stair have you ever been like online when people like go like completely take your words and turn them into something different yeah
that's probably going to happen in this one too but it's okay to me no no no to me oh my gosh you'll be you'll be fine you're a man it'll be fine ow I'm kidding ow I smashed my in the back of my chair you're killing me I'm so sorry you're killing me I'm sorry no this is my favorite my intrusive thoughts oh I have those yeah hey you know the maddest thing happens to about a month ago they went away was it the
Marine collagen what did you drink exactly I just started taking a lot of mushrooms despite what you tell me whether they work or don't work on your album I took a lot and I didn't it wasn't no same it's so funny in fact by the way you give Wellness a beating on that song Sorry I know you really do like you take everything we're aspiring to be and you just destroy it in one verse it's brilliant but harsh it's the other thing
that I've actually really that I've thought about of like people being like this is how she feels feel all the time it's like sometimes I'm into that yeah know but you're in that mood that day you're in that mood that day and also there's just been enough times where it's annoyed the out of me and and and someone's been like I did this and oh my God like I just it just changed everything I'm like there goes that story I was about to tell you my
transformative moment story when I do on mushrooms wasn't on mushrooms it was actually well I had a medical opened I had a medical thing I had a medical thing that really that was really intense and and I went and saw some people and they put me on the right path and they got it figured out but it was bad for a while by the way that song's not about you they're all about me and they're all about him and her and her
and Cat and they're all about you're right you're right actually that helps me tell tell everybody that stream the record tell everybody that no what that but in that in that sense of like I love that things can can heal people and I hope that that's not taken as as me just ripping apart everything that you way too far into this interview to start hoping that things are going to get out of context we are way past that God
bless God bless God bless God bless him right what did you say Rolling Stone a all all it's not what we want and it's actually more importantly not what we need we don't them all we definitely don't need to do that that is a long road to sadness but no what we don't what we don't need is why would this road in I'm sorry um it it is not what we need what we what we don't need is for artists to get into a place where fear
drives truth out of the picture and I feel like the the year between the when you made your last album and the touring you did and this album was the was the area the period of time when you came face to face with your audience for real I remember seeing the YouTube videos when they were just theaters and you'd sit on the end of the stage and talk to the fans you know I'd watch these clips cuz we'd come in here
and we we follow whatever our favorite artists are doing people are doing because we can't be there and I was like oh she's finding her people she's actually out there finding them one by one finding her people and the and the and they're telling you it's okay MH we really appreciate you and you don't have to be scared that's what it felt like to watch there's probably more than just this group but there's a really beautiful
group of young girls that have been fans of mine since I was 14 that just have genuinely stuck with me through everything like from the very very very beginning and they're still at my shows today they still come to every you know I just did the Grammy Museum they came like I I just think that that's such a special feeling when you know it takes them through life and breakups and love and family and college and cuz they're
growing up too yeah so it makes me feel like oh we're we're literally just doing this together um and that's a really really beautiful thing that I'm super grateful for and which is also the reason why touring has everyone has their own like feelings about it but for me I think it's it's created the space for people to understand that there's like a human behind songs you know there's a human behind music or there's a human behind
big hair and like and crazy outfits like it is and and I'm just having fun and they they're they're really really um supportive of of that it's also the undeniable like factor that no matter how much technology makes things more efficient and more effective or social media promises connection and underd delivers that that the work is the thing that that connects us the the effort yeah the going to these towns the
showing up the kid with the ticket in the back pocket who just still can't believe you're about to walk on that stage even though the lights just went down yeah that excitement stays with you it's it's no matter whether you're in the Arts or you want to go on and do anything else in your life it's still an energy that is a fundamental human motivating it's positive motivation yeah and I just think that I just think you
like you were born to do it but she work to get it thanks right sure did put the work in man you know what I mean so what still working still working well let's talk about balance then cuz there's a saying I try to remember right in a song that I worked on years ago never came out which is you can take everything you want but will it ever be enough and so and so what it says to me is that like it just
says to me like how will limitations present themselves and will you be open to them because when because when we're in the height of what we're trying to achieve limitations is is a negative thing yeah but actually understanding what you are willing or not willing to do MH for the benefit of your life is also really important to start kind of just practicing that are you aware of that or are you just like I'm just not
there right now I'm 25 want to get it I think I'm I'm more aware than than I know I am if that makes sense I think there's so so many uh like we were talking about gut instincts and just trusting your gut and I I think that's happened to me a lot in the last few months it's interesting because i' I've been working since I was very young so there's this either perspective of like you must be like not sure how to handle
this right now or you must be so fine and none of this is that crazy and you're doing great right and it's a it's a very up and down every day is a bit different you know some days I'm like thankfully I'm equipped and I and I feel like I have the tools and other days I'm like what are tools I don't even know what I don't know what's going on so I think I I really do trust my gut in a lot of those ways but yeah I I say no to
things that feel wrong in my stomach like as simple as that and I say no if I'm genuinely just too tired I have to there's there's days where I know I can push myself and days where I know like I'm making something so exciting if I don't sleep then I didn't sleep and I was 25 and okay like it's fine yeah but if if I got it in the tank but if it's bleeding into this is a dangerous path for everything else and it's a domino effect
yeah then I got a nap you know well you're doing a good job of of of balance to me because and I say this with the greatest of of gratitude that you're here you're not I don't see you everywhere and I don't see you doing an enormous amount um I'm always very happy when that's the case and yet you still come in here very grateful for that oh I told you I've always wanted to have this conversation with you is it going good
it's going well I'll have to look back and watch it no I'm just kidding this is this is so it's because of the fact that it feels so safe honestly the fact that I said probably three or four things that people are going to be upset about oh no is a good thing that's a good thing it's a good it's a good thing to feel like you can just speak even if it doesn't mean it's always correct you know what at the end of the day m we're
all just trying to figure it out and rock on man you know what I'm saying like we're all just trying to figure it the out and we've just got to be a little more kind to each other in the process um because I think we've decided that the part of figuring it out is to tell other people You' have not got it figured out you know it gives me a nice endorphin rush I feel like I'm actually succeeding somewhere you're not and I
feel like my life is actually a little bit better than yours totally fine I felt that way I can still feel that way it's an energy I try to clap within two seconds I was bang get the out but like you're killing a fly gone right but it's not that easy and and I just I just think we got to be kind to each other man that's an obvious thing to say but damn we are we it's beautiful living yeah I mean my
mom I want to give her a shout out cuz I love her one and two um when couple weeks ago it was like it was a lot for me and I wasn't I wasn't doing too great and I was like you need to go outside and I want to you to put your feet on the grass and the dirt as stupid she was like your feet need to touch ground mom your feet need to touch ground they've been they've been touching the inside of your house or the
plane or hotels they need to touch the actual Earth and she was like and read she was like read a book read a couple chap she was like literally just just like be a person and I was like stupid I don't want to do this and I'm like going outside like taking my shoes off like so mad like okay my feet are in the dirt clean up the dog okay yeah um but it was so sweet and I and I and it really did it helped me emotional because I know me
too it's so stupid no it's not stupid at all it's amazing it's because you know like when you have those moments when the people who know you best give the most simple advice and that's that's so far removed from what we Face most of the time which is the people who know us least trying to complicate the out of yeah and tell you like it's okay you're doing great when you're like that's lovely but uh I want to kill like
I just I can't I can't do this right now so so that was that was advice that I will remember when things are yeah man bit too much grass is crazy also I'm allergic to Grass found that out after but it's fine really I was allergic to Grass as a kid as well you can grow out of that I can grow out I think the more grass I touch the less allergic I'll be oh that's a very interesting combination of things isn't it it's like I'm
allergic to coffee so I have to drink as much as possible it's I don't know if that's is that a thing made it up are people allergic to coffee well no I stopped drinking weeks ago I'm telling you transformative you stopped drinking coffee four weeks ago didn't not that you espresso that's not espresso but I was me espresso for a long long time I had a lot of M espresso okay so I'm okay with that your those
days are over they're over yeah but real easy too oh no not my coffee is not about you feels like a personal attack my coffee is not about you didn't invent espresso the song is not about my espresso you don't own espresso it's what's so crazy like this is the part of me that feels like an idiot every time I see like a cafe there's just a sign that says espresso and I'm like yes like nothing to do with me you're a monster you're literally
walking around every single Cafe now just like that's that me espresso it's no I don't do that but I do have to question ordering it a lot now like I'm just like oh have you had moments in that like where the with the Barista is just like I can't they're wait they're just like waiting for me to say it and I'm like you must can I see your herle team menu please oh bril I love it that's so good oh my God I mean it must be it must be yeah
you kind of yourself I really was like a little bit you think about that and you're like why don't I write songs like a billion dollars like manifest that yeah but honestly music is a manifestation toour how else do you explain the fact that you know country music anything with storytelling hip-hop you know can go from just being this this art form from the streets as a form of entertainment because they not
there's nothing else to do right and then but then you want to talk about what you want and how great you are in hell I've got this I've got this before I got it and then I got it yeah and then guess what the music is like
the largest selling music by the way just that was just not running through my head when I made espresso so and that's on you because now you can't go buy espressos anywhere without somebody going that's that me espresso yeah or
just thinking that I'm like conceited I don't know it's such a weird I'm just like n no one thought that because it's so good it's thank you oh you are we were talking about this before you showed up today um God look at us both of us drying our eyes and snorting laugh crying S I had like Snot dripping down my nose I was like oh my God don't make me cry when I made my makeup real nice so you'll never know what that line
feels like right I've worn makeup you have I'm a modern human did you have a guyliner phas like when you were younger no but I did have a frosted flat top phase where I went full Frost at one point it was like dark time send me a picture send me a picture you'll find it before I do well I mean yeah that if it ever shows up in your Google you've lost your way my explore page is terrifying should talk I mean like let's
go there well no I have like four things on my that's how simple my life is where do you go I actually want to bring up Jack's explore page because the only thing that keeps coming up you're going to a out Jack's explore page yeah because it's it's this video of me we talk about it all the time in this video it's this video of me from this Netflix film that I did a few years ago Dancing Yeah and it's just this move
where he's like it looks like you're learning how to move is a it's like a puppet learning how to how to become a human and he plays it every time and then now every time we're in the studio he's like racking up collections of videos of me doing it for him he better be he better dance like John Travolta to make a statement like that I mean that's that I'm serious that guy better be like frest there for
him to start calling you out on your dance moves no no it's the funniest thing makes me laugh every time and I just think it's so Rand also like the fact that that that I brought that up he's probably going to be like but no it is really funny what you what's on yours what do you always searching I'm not searching like I want to specify that it just comes up I think also now a lot of which is also scary a lot of what comes
up is like yourself or like videos to your songs you got to be so careful where you open your phone right cuz all of a sudden you're like out in a restaurant and then like it just starts playing and you're like and then you have such a narrow vision of life this is why the touching grass thing is helpful because you're like surely this this isn't surely I I do own espresso no but but I really do like I
think that's also why um I I go out of my way to like just listen to so much music in my free time and just talk about that yeah we talk about what you love to listen to can we share a few things right now like I listen to B's every day like the beg's are like my safe place right now and my mom was like talking a lot about them yesterday cuz I was like well I don't think any of them were like all that attractive but their
voices were so stunning and she was like no no no when they were young when they were young they had a little something going on well you know and sadly Andy who passed away young she brought up Andy she said Andy was like her she said Andy was like her literally celebrity crush it's quite a heartbreaking story The BG story for all of the joy they brought and also if you've ever watched the documentary which is so amazing I
mean how funky were they that early stuff before they they hit their hit stride it's so inspiring Oh my days they used every single major and minor in 3 and half minutes I know they literally be like listen mate cuz they from Australia like listen there's only five chords they're in the song we need all seven so it's got to kind of go oh we're going to do it like this then we're [Music] like hit and it's like what the was
that like most people go CG a I think you need both oh I'm not judging I'm just saying if you can use more totally well and that's where you know and I think I have a lot of fun with with um Jack because he's he's really playful with chords I mean in the in the way that you know please is please is like a very oh you changed the entire key on the second verse correct yeah and I love it which we were so excited about
when it worked and it cuz we we tried it one way it didn't sound right and then we tried it in the second verse and it was like it's like a breath of fresh air it's like it's like a moment when you just suddenly go like I'm in this groove I'm in this song I like it and then it's just like oh man like it just got a little brighter which I appreciate not for you know the people that are listening to music that don't nerd out
over that stuff like that's fine but the fact that it just made us so happy that's what it's for and and then that that just brings my love of music like back every every time those little moments happen um but yeah the you know B's are amazing and uh I mean I've been listening to a lot what what's what's and not to turn it back on you but I really do love your taste I want to know like what's your favorite record right
now I'm making playlists right now based on like real mood and and and and and I'm transition obsessed so I'm so so like I I'll make a playlist that starts with a certain song and then I'm like okay but okay so I'll just brain dump 1530 50 60 songs I made a 6 hour one the other day okay and and then I go through and I'm like I spend two days like probably total like 12 hours around yeah so that it just everything
is just like immersive and feels great and so I'm really I'm in a actually very sad but a beautifully sad place I'm listening to an enormous amount of like Tom York and ryx and Justin Vernon and like sad PJ Harvey and just very and like very emotive music like Wing victory of the Sun and very soft ambient string stuff and yeah just you know Billy martin birds man have you ever heard that song I mean I'm going to play a little
bit of it so you understand exactly what I'm talking about but you know I'm in a place where I'm really enjoying emotion and I can't always say that I did she under again where I want to be's daughter a friend in the night in the dark in the cold as she walks far [Music] away [Music] nobody yeah I'm crying same so you know I mean yeah that is where I want to be okay so should we end the interview then but isn't it good to
feel that way so good yeah I sorry now I'm digesting no but I don't the thing is yeah I I don't even want to I mean I I I really appreciate being able to just sit there and and to let someone I do that f for me oh I I love that I but I in general like I think that's what um I've maybe always felt a little bit like maybe people don't understand my love of Music if that I know that sounds kind of weird to say but like I grew up
where oh my God why am I crying now it's the song like crying and then I'm thinking about my childhood um but I grew up with like I lived in the middle of the woods I was homeschooled there was just a lot of time to think with and be alone with my thoughts and my parents thankfully like really introduced such a range of music to me at such a young age yeah that I think as as much as people you know see the the timing of oh she
was like actress turn singer it's like no I just I had such a hunger to create that the the first thing I could do was a TV show at that point the the me releasing music at 10 was not going to be digested I think as well as I would have wanted it to but like the music was was always my life you know and and still is and um I get so excited about things that move me things that excite me uh being able to to capture feelings and into
words and into Melodies I think I think Melodies say just as much as words do so I really I really really um I'm so grateful for for what it's done for me not to be such a nerd but no one is going to question that again thank you I think maybe one guy but yeah him them all them all but the moisturizer is stinging my eyes oh it's good that you moisturize though some men don't yeah no I have moisturiz [Music]