0:01
I read all these books naturally. >> I know.
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0:02
Well, I was going to ask what's your favorite.
0:05
>> The federal supplement is my favorite. >> Of course. >> Of course. >> The classic. >> Okay. >> Okay. Stay rolling, please. >> Mark.
0:20
>> Sabrina, congratulations. >> Thank you.
0:22
It's >> the day after your new album came out.
0:24
Let's set a timeline right here and time stamp this. It is Friday.
0:25
The album came out Thursday night into Friday around the world. Uh, Man's Best Friend. How do you feel? >> Feel very relieved. Bet.
0:34
>> Yeah, I'm uh it's been a whirlwind and a roller coaster as as you could imagine to make >> another album, I guess, in this time period.
0:44
>> Um, but I was so excited to do something that felt not just like unexpected for other people, but it was unexpected for me as well.
0:51
>> Came out of nowhere for you.
0:52
>> It it slowly came out of nowhere.
0:52
But I think like anything, if you have a few songs that you love, you're like, I wonder I wonder how you what it's like seven or eight more songs until you have a project.
1:02
And you know, I would never I would never force it if I didn't love it.
1:06
So, it really was just this thing of I think this is a chapter I'm so meant to document.
1:11
>> And um and it's and it really represents a funny period in my life that I think I'll always look back on and remember exactly who I was at that time.
1:19
you will you got an album to tell you exactly in vivid detail and with real humor. >> Too vivid borderline. >> I don't know, man.
1:26
We'll get to all of that.
1:28
It's a really fun listen and but it's also, you know, it's not just fun.
1:31
I mean, you're dealing with some real human experience and emotion and dressed up in all kinds of different outfits.
1:36
But we should probably establish what's going on here because this isn't it's kind of seems normal to us by the bookshelves.
1:42
Uh but everyone watching this, you know, we're we're deep in a black and white world right now in terms of imagery and stuff and we're really in on your set.
1:49
This is this is a a part of the creative extension of this album cycle for you.
1:53
So, what made you want to bring us back to 1967?
1:54
I feel like I'd be smoking a poor Moore right now and talking about the socioeconomic climate.
2:00
>> And if you wanted to, I would have been like, "Yeah, that would be so great."
2:03
>> Cuz smoking's hip, apparently.
2:05
>> And isn't it funny, too, cuz I do find like I'm so inspired by art from that time period.
2:10
I'm so inspired by music and chords and instruments uh from from that time.
2:15
I mean, everything that has just like a little bit of like a softness and a fuzziness to it is something that really resonates with me and always has.
2:24
>> There's a hard-hittingness to it, though, as well.
2:25
When you see some of the interviews, and I saw some of the reference material, and I'd seen a few of them before.
2:28
I'd seen the Len Coleman piece before, bits of the Marilyn Monroe interview. >> That was fascinating.
2:33
The Marilyn Monroe interview, so smart, so sharp, and so underestimated at every step of the way. Crazy. >> Yeah.
2:40
>> Fame back then was a mad thing.
2:42
>> And it's it's still a mad thing.
2:42
it's just transformed into something so different than what it was.
2:47
>> But but part of that was also fascinating and watching, you know, the way everything's changed and nothing's changed.
2:53
So, I think that that was a huge reference point for me um in making this album.
2:58
And it's so interesting to be able to listen to the songs and be like, I'm saying these, you know, I'm talking about these subjects in a really, I guess, modern Sabrina type of way.
3:08
But it's the same that's been happening for 60 years.
3:14
>> So, um, what does that say? I don't know.
3:16
I'll write it in the next album.
3:17
But yeah, we're we're we're in a we're in a spiral.
3:19
And um you know I do think that there's a lot of beauty in even though those times I was not alive.
3:25
With every time period there's pain, >> there's struggle. There's sadness. There's celebration. There's joy. >> There's icons. >> There's icons.
3:35
There's also just like things that really stick with you.
3:39
>> And um I've been really inspired by all of it.
3:42
>> Um it's unique for us to be talking the day after it comes out.
3:44
Normally I'm catching up people long before the record comes out. >> Yeah.
3:48
So, how open have you been to to to to responds to the album thus far?
3:53
>> It's a really good question.
3:56
Like, I actually think I'm a lot more open than I give myself credit for to receiving criticism.
4:01
I think I've seen people have really beautiful, positive takes on it.
4:06
They they see it in a way that I hoped and in a way that I experienced making it, which is always that's always like A+ gold star like you get it to me, right?
4:18
>> But then you have the people that that just see it from a different lens cuz they're living life differently than me.
4:25
>> And then their experience is completely different.
4:27
I always think that that's so fascinating for me.
4:29
And it's something that as much as I might not like it every time or like every opinion, I can sometimes be like maybe that's a good point.
4:36
like maybe I didn't think about it that way or you know maybe I was really living in my experience like very deeply that I I I wasn't looking at the other side of it and that's you know what all art is.
4:46
It's all just >> up to interpretation.
4:48
So um I'm dealing with it now a little bit easier.
4:51
I think the last few days I was really nervous >> about that.
4:55
I'm sure the idea of opinion is also kind of triggering for any artist, especially an artist like yourself who spent the last 10 years and probably at the very beginning of your journey dealing with strong opinion and having to work out, hang on, >> that may be your opinion, that's not my opinion.
5:07
And at what point do I actually get more of a controlling opinion over what it is I want to do?
5:10
So getting to figure out, and that goes for anybody who's young and starting out in this business, I think.
5:14
And so, >> you know, I was going to ask you, you know, how you've leared to kind of manage and and make opinion constructive for you. Well, it's interesting.
5:22
Even with my last album, Short and Sweet was a record that I worked on for two and a half years after I made an album called Emails I Can't Send.
5:32
And it really was based off of the constructive criticism from Emails I can't send that I made short and sweet.
5:38
you know, obviously it was also my life and my experiences that I was going through, but kind of taking into account, you know, the way that I really wanted to refine that sound and and some of those pop songs into something very glossy was um was one way of doing it.
5:53
And I think this album was birthed the opposite way.
5:56
It was sort of like I felt like I had accomplished something that had something for everybody and they really liked it.
6:02
And then I was like, now I'm going to make this Not just for me, but you know what I mean?
6:10
Like I'm I'm I'm not making it so I can appease and you know check all the boxes for everyone that liked this and this about the last album.
6:19
>> So glad you said that.
6:19
People talk about the complications and success, but it feels like there are times when it can simplify things, >> goals and ambitions and all of a sudden that stuff to your point seems to fall away a bit.
6:27
>> It's like I already did that. I did that last album.
6:29
Do you want to hear the same album again? No. Let me make a new album. Let me try some things.
6:31
you're if you don't like it, that means I did something right because I think it means like you're not used to it.
6:37
It's not something that's so digestible.
6:39
It's not something that you know immediately. It's just like yes.
6:42
And and and not to say that you can't have amazing songs that are great on the first listen, but I do think that there was um something about this album that I knew was going to take a second just simply because of how much is going on. >> It's a rocket ship. >> Yeah.
6:56
>> Yeah. It's it's up and down and the instrumentation is so vivid and so full and so lush and full of really strange things and >> yeah the end of goodbye to truth is the way through goodbye you're in some psychedelic bridge >> there's a lot of psychedelics going on in this album and I and it's because I was so inspired by by ' 60s7s ' 80s and
7:16
and um and some of these like almost score like instrumentations and uh yeah and and I think it's not necessarily something that you know my last album had a few songs where you could play them in the background on the beach and just be like life is great and this one you might have to pay attention a little bit more. You know what I mean? You know what I mean?
7:37
It's just a different album.
7:37
Doesn't mean it's um for me it's uh it's never going to be better or worse.
7:42
I just wanted to make the next thing because I had something to say.
7:46
Um and I'm excited about that that I that I didn't like scare myself into not picking up a pen again. >> And it can be scary.
7:54
I've seen it and spoken to friends of mine and other artists who have had the kind of success you had in the last 18 months and it can really affect their decision-m.
8:00
You can alter their sense of confidence and what they're trying to do and whether or not they've holding on too tight to what they finally got in their hands.
8:06
What does overnight success feel like to someone who spent 10 years trying to achieve it? >> Long.
8:12
It's not overnight at all.
8:15
>> There's um a shift more so in my personal life than anything else.
8:18
You know, >> in what ways?
8:21
>> People um acting weird.
8:25
truly people people just people's behaviors changing.
8:29
>> People that you wouldn't expect to behave that way. >> Yeah.
8:31
It's either people I knew, people I know, people I no longer know.
8:33
Um and or people I had just met, you know, that that was like a new thing for me.
8:38
Making friends is not is not an easy thing right now.
8:43
Um and I think everyone sort of deals with that in a different way.
8:47
But it was just funny cuz it was like, well, I've sort of been >> lurking for a while.
8:50
So, I I can kind of really see behaviors switch a little bit more obviously um than maybe expected.
9:00
But >> yeah, >> other than that, it it on the on the surface, it's like I've been working every day for such a long time.
9:04
It didn't feel like anything really changed there. >> Yeah. >> Still working.
9:09
>> It's interesting you talk about the relationship side of things and in particular like, you know, forming meaningful relationships, friendships, and whatnot.
9:14
Um, we've met a few times off the record and and on the record >> and if I can make sort of an observation, um, you seem like someone who, uh, is unaltered.
9:23
You you've always seemed very straight up yourself.
9:29
>> I don't feel like you carry yourself with an aura of like, you know, I'm I'm here and I'm successful and so just work around me.
9:35
It's like, no, no, I'm just right here in front of you.
9:38
>> So, that must be kind of really um, >> thanks.
9:40
>> I don't know if it's disheartening is the right word.
9:41
Maybe that's too dramatic, but it must be slightly jarring for you to know that you're the same person.
9:46
And really, what do the numbers and what do the increase in crowds really what what what difference does it make?
9:52
Why why are people being weird?
9:55
>> Why are people being weird?
9:55
I also think that there's a a lot of I guess um support that comes out the gate that slowly starts to fade pretty quickly when you when you do one thing right, it's like it's sort of their idea and they're okay with it.
10:10
But when you do two things, right, they're like, "Well, you only say you could do one thing, right?"
10:14
You know, it's it's sort of weird to be like, "Well, I've been working for 10 years to do one thing right."
10:18
No, I've been working for this long to to continue to grow and get better and hopefully do a couple things, right?
10:25
>> So, that's what I'm trying to do right now.
10:26
It it is disheartening at times, but I mean, that's the tale as old as time is people come and go. So, I'm used to that.
10:33
It is like smoking a cigarette. We should have them.
10:34
There is something funny about um feeling really I don't know everything right now seems like there is like a bit of a pad and a bit of a window to um >> you know either I don't know how you feel but being face to face with an artist like do you ever feel like you can just tell them you don't like something?
10:53
>> You know I'm I'm really I'm really pro art.
10:54
I'm really pro art and and I don't sit down and talk to you unless I think that there's a connection that we can have >> to talk meaningfully about music and art and what inspires it with you.
11:03
Um, that's the only trade I want to get to know what inspired this record and who you are right now.
11:08
So, where's the critique in that, but I do admire the critical voice.
11:12
And I think it's important for someone to listen to something and have an opinion.
11:14
And to your point, you you wouldn't have made short and sweet if it hadn't come that way. >> Totally.
11:19
It was an album I always dreamt of making and so is this one.
11:22
>> You know, I keep saying there there is something about this album to me more so than the last one that that does feel really cohesive.
11:28
It it was it was it was made from an experience that was um really really >> safe >> safe consolidated into a not a short period of time but it was something that I was going through that was very um like written from how I felt in the moment as I was experiencing it. not.
11:54
Whereas short and sweet, I was able to sort of deal with something, have some time to think about it, figure out what I wanted to say, and then make those songs from that perspective.
12:00
So, this was a little bit more um maybe maybe in the moment than the last one.
12:04
I also just realized I was like, "This is so cool.
12:09
There there are no rules.
12:09
There are no rules to, you know, and I also have seen a few artists recently sort of say this.
12:16
It's like I think there's this sort of um stigma around doing things in the right way and and >> you're just taking all the fun out of it.
12:26
I mean if if you're doing it in the way that everyone expects and >> give people time to bre I mean I I grew up on artists that would release 10 albums once a year.
12:34
So now to sort of feel like if we've changed to the place where if if artists put out albums frequently, it's like why did they do that? Why are they making art? >> Yeah.
12:48
Why they why are they crowding me? >> Yeah.
12:50
>> As a fan, like I just Yeah.
12:51
>> And I always think about albums as like, you know, I didn't watch Frozen for like 3 years after it came out.
12:56
I I did not see Frozen until 3 years after.
12:59
If you don't if you're not ready to hear the music, don't click play.
13:03
just listen in a couple years or listen when you're ready.
13:07
>> You mean you saw it once and then didn't watch it again or you never saw it?
13:10
>> I never saw it until three years after everyone >> spoiler alert nightmare.
13:13
The whole world saw that movie.
13:15
>> And to be fair, like I wouldn't say that movie is like spoiler central.
13:17
Like I feel like you kind of get the gist of what's going to happen and it's like they're cold.
13:23
>> It was a joke, Sabrina, but you know what I mean?
13:25
>> So I I would say the artist has to make the art when they feel they're ready to make it and then you can listen whatever. >> What about album 52? What about album 52? That's the point.
13:35
The point is to make a lot for yourself to to your point to discover who you are through this process.
13:42
And this album, yeah, it was very much in the moment. Let's talk about it.
13:46
Man's best friend, >> your latest album fast. Came out fast for us.
13:51
>> But >> it looks like it was made in a really beautiful environment.
13:54
The pictures on Instagram are amazing.
13:56
It looks like a domestic environment, like a living room of sorts.
14:00
It's kind of like the dream really.
14:02
No one knows you're there. You're tucked away. Postmates make music.
14:05
>> I was in the UK for some of it.
14:07
>> We made it in three places.
14:07
We made it in LA, New York, and the UK.
14:10
>> And yeah, as like as intimate as it could possibly be.
14:14
And this was the most intimate squad I've ever made my album with, which was my goal all along. I mean, >> band. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
14:21
I it's it's weird to describe it like that, but when you you're in the room, you know, and and Jack is on the synth and John's on the the upright and Amy and I are on the couch and we're either playing the tambourine or, you know, one of us is in the corner playing drums and >> banjo was involved.
14:37
Like there's there was so much happening that it it felt really special.
14:41
It actually just felt like like kids making things that they love. >> Yeah.
14:48
Which I've been thinking a lot about this in the last day.
14:49
Just like when you're a kid and you make a picture and you show it to your parent, you're like, "Oh, I made this picture."
14:56
And they like like, "I'm busy. Like, I can't right now. I'm busy. I can't right now."
15:01
>> It's It's how I feel about, you know, making something that I'm so excited about and then having people sort of immediately step on it and just squash it.
15:07
You're like, I'm like 8 years old, dude.
15:10
Like, look at my picture. Put it on the fridge.
15:12
I drew this picture and I worked so hard on it. >> A magnet. >> Yeah.
15:15
And it and it and it sort of feels like that sometimes which is the part that feels like a little bit sad and I don't want that to keep me from loving making music and loving putting out music.
15:25
So I am trying to navigate that a little bit right now.
15:28
>> So let's talk about the mood in the living room because obviously um you know you're with your friends and there's going to be times when it's fun and the banjo's playing and the songs are flowing and there's going to be times if you are in fact going through what you're writing about in that moment what we hear is the reality of that time.
15:42
There's going to be some intense times too and some pretty emotional times. Yes, which there were.
15:47
>> Um, and I think every time I tried to write about it in an intense emotional way, >> I was sort of dealing with this block, I think because of the fact that even though I knew I was dealing with something that was hurting me so much, I also was really aware of the fact that I felt lighter and I was still like laughing about all the things that were, you know, with my mind.
16:13
>> So, humor came pretty quick. It always does with me. >> Yeah. Right. >> I'm one of those. >> Yeah.
16:18
>> Um and I and I really really appreciate that because it was something where I was able to to to look at the situation and go, well, you got yourself here just as much as you know that experience got you here and your choices.
16:30
So, um it's not long before I'm sort of seeing it from multiple sides and able to laugh at it. >> Yeah. >> And drinking tequila.
16:40
>> It's it's put the distractions in order because they're all beautiful distractions.
16:43
Alcohol is a distraction.
16:45
Work is a distraction when you're in pain. Humor is a distraction.
16:47
The album starts with the funny side.
16:49
There's literally laughter at the beginning of the album.
16:54
>> It's funny with laughter, you know, like it can mean a lot of different things.
16:58
Laughter, people can hear it differently to how it's intended.
16:59
How did you intend the laugh at the beginning of the album?
17:04
>> Well, interestingly, there's a song that is on the vinyl deluxe version of the album.
17:09
It didn't make the original album.
17:10
I think just sonically it it felt like it um >> what's it called?
17:15
>> It's called Such a Funny Way.
17:17
>> And I only bring that up because it's it's exactly what you're talking about.
17:21
It's how you know I interpret humor obviously in a light way, but it's also used to cover something and it's used to sort of um definitely cope with things and not not always in the best way.
17:33
I've I've had trouble in relationships before because people have been like, "You sort of like be serious, you know?"
17:39
And there's been times where I am able to be serious, but so much of the time it feels maybe less mean or hurtful or spiteful to be able to just laugh about it.
17:51
And that's a good thing sometimes and sometimes it's a bad thing.
17:53
So, um, so yeah, that that one isn't on the original version of the album, but it ends the album with the lyrics so funny that I have to laugh just so I don't cry.
18:00
And it's the whole it really sums up the whole record, which is funny.
18:03
Um, but we start with with manchild in this way that's sort of looking at the last 25 years going >> there's a pattern here.
18:14
>> Oh boy, >> I really like it. Yeah. >> Yeah.
18:16
And coming back after short and sweet thinking, I must have figured it all out after that.
18:24
>> Different things to figure out, >> different lanes of life. >> Who knew?
18:28
>> They don't relate to each other.
18:30
Sometimes they it can be magic and they find a beautiful like symbiosis >> but who you are is the person who worked for your whole life to reach people in a meaningful way is not the person who's going to go through a tough time on a personal level because there's a disconnection there very different
18:47
things >> right I think I think like what you're talking about even >> I had so much to smile about in the last year >> you know cuz simultaneously as I was dealing with a lot of pain I was like well be grateful you Oh, things you've been working for your whole life are happening right now. You know, try to be
19:01
You know, try to be present. Try to enjoy that.
19:03
And I think that's where this like struggle of of smiling through the pain kind of happens.
19:09
>> Heart doesn't understand that language.
19:12
>> The brain and the and the and the and and the people around you and the cerebral side of things is like look around you.
19:18
>> The heart is doesn't want to look doesn't want to look at all.
19:19
And you know, you you would think it's one of those things where if you're making a project, right, everything must be tied up in a bow.
19:28
Every meaning must be explained by the end of it.
19:30
You know, every question must be answered.
19:32
But that's just not life.
19:35
And it's also just not life at 25.
19:37
So I I think I'm >> I'm really embracing that because I am someone that loves to have answers to things and loves to understand why I'm feeling this way, but I also have to leave room for the >> for the hormones. Yeah. Yeah.
19:52
And also just this idea of relinquishing control which is um tough when you when you have a vision at a young age and you know what it is you want to achieve.
20:02
>> That's a pretty early introduction to the concept of control. >> Yeah.
20:07
And that slapped me in the face pretty quickly because I you know I I I was 10 years old thinking oh in 5 years I'm going to be on this stage.
20:18
And it took me longer and and I I'm so grateful for it now because again I I see what a lot of people deal with.
20:27
I mean mentally all of this is just a bit of a a show at times if you're not um able to sort of have a good grasp on yourself.
20:34
And um and I think now I'm really grateful for the for the age that I'm experiencing some of this stuff cuz I'm not I don't I feel like I have like a little bit more of a stable ground that I'm standing on. >> Yeah. Hard earned though. Hard earned. >> Thanks. Right. >> Thanks.
20:49
>> Yeah, we've spoken about this before, but I still remember the first time we spoke and it was a video call >> and you were in it.
20:56
>> I remember that you were in it.
20:58
>> Oh, I was in a I was in a dark place.
21:00
>> You you were definitely I could tell even even through the lens I was like, "Okay, all right." >> Yeah.
21:04
Well, that and then that album is such an accurate recollection of >> And this thing, you've always been this honest writer.
21:09
I mean, the pen is unmatched.
21:11
You and Amy Allen right now are just writing songs at such a high level.
21:15
And this concept of humor is to master pain, but also just be straight up funny. Like tears funny.
21:21
Like, >> oh my god, it's hilarious.
21:22
This idea of like just do the dishes and I'm all yours. It's so good.
21:28
>> I was uh I was talking about this earlier.
21:29
I was just sort of like, you know, it's so interesting when you're young, you're just like, >> you know, you have all of these standards.
21:36
You want you want someone that checks all these boxes.
21:41
It would be great if they held the door.
21:44
>> It would be so >> But I thought the nice guys finish last.
21:51
I thought that's the joke.
21:52
>> I don't I know a lot of jokes, >> but that one seems like a big one to me.
21:57
So, >> I feel like a lot of the cliches now are sort of changing based on the world changing >> and people's behaviors being so different than what they probably were back in the day. Yeah. >> I don't know.
22:10
>> And then we're also complex individuals that because we've experienced pain and confusion and being tossed around. >> Yeah. We bring it with us.
22:18
That's >> we also get confused when that's not happening.
22:23
happening. sewing mask is we're like is this boring >> or is this you know not as much of a spark as what I had before all those things and and and that's been something that's been really weighing on me sort of looking at stability as like a a beautiful thing and not like um and not a bad thing >> yeah wear the fireworks at all times
22:42
>> yeah not everything needs to be fireworks at all times but but sometimes >> I want to talk about what's okay if I picked any song on the album there's a story attached to it right there's got to be there's got to be a moment that reminds you of that particular that particular time with you and >> Did you have a favorite? I was going to I was going to ask you. >> Oh, yeah.
22:58
I've got some real favorites. Um we almost broke up. >> Mhm.
23:03
That's one of my favorites, too. >> Love that.
23:05
Um I really love um I really love Sugar Talk. >> Thank you.
23:12
>> I love the groove on that.
23:12
I just like how timeless that feels.
23:16
And I think your vocal runs going into the chorus are like >> pretty amazing.
23:21
You're singing outside yourself on this album and I think that you found a different range or a different depth that you found and I feel like you also gained control over your tone and over that really tight VA in a really powerful way.
23:31
Feel like you just were like zof >> figured it out.
23:36
>> It's there and I know how to get there.
23:38
Well, that was an when I was younger, I remember working with producers that would really try to get me to stop doing that.
23:45
And uh because I always had it from the time I was really I remember recording a song when I was 16 and it was like singing a high note and there was a lot of VBR like to me it felt stylistic and it felt like >> my voice >> but they were like can you just sing it? >> Sing it straight. Sing it straight. That's like that's pop. Sing it straight. >> Sing it straight.
24:03
It's like what the I just >> that sentence sounds so off. >> It's also Yeah.
24:07
I mean, people have said a lot of really unfortunate things to me over the years, but I that was something that stuck with me because for a few years I definitely like it you you do you remember those things.
24:18
And then it wasn't until I started working with Jack that was just like >> your VBR is so special and so unique.
24:25
And then when you hear it throughout short and sweet a little bit, it was something that I was like, "Oh, it's like a sigh of relief."
24:29
Like I could actually just like sing um sometimes the way that I sing in my mix voice.
24:32
And uh and a song like that, I mean, it's just so fun cuz it's like >> it it is it's sort of like doing gymnastics.
24:40
It's like how far can we push it?
24:42
>> And that one specifically, like when we were recording it, we almost broke up again last night.
24:45
It's like >> like like truly like what is the top and how much can we go there?
24:50
>> Oh, you float above there.
24:50
Like it's like you're a full tank of gas.
24:52
You're 30,000 ft in the air and there's no turbulence, man.
24:54
You're just like, >> it's crazy when you hit that note and it really does the job because it takes the song from being something that you feel, okay, I'm in my I'm in the emotion of this song.
25:05
It's like, no, there's we've got somewhere else to go. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We're going over here.
25:09
>> And with Sugar Talking as well.
25:09
I mean, every song for different reasons.
25:11
But, um, but I think this was was definitely one where I wasn't questioning what my voice was and what it >> and what it could be.
25:19
So, it was something where I also really realized how much um the storytelling and the performance has everything to do with the way I sing the line and and there was a lot more acting maybe going on in in this recording process and a lot more theatrics than in the past where you're you're hitting notes and you're sort of making sure that the melody is the best melody.
25:41
This time around, as much as I was also taking that into consideration, I was also thinking about what um would be the most theatrical to sing.
25:51
>> Everybody in the room was clearly because I know you produce the record with John and Jack and Amy and you do the vocals and of course you handle the vocal performances.
25:58
>> Um but I feel like everybody was like, >> "That's interesting."
26:02
>> And then someone be like, "Yeah, I can respond to that."
26:03
When I listened to the record, I feel like everybody is spurring each other on the best way. >> Yeah.
26:08
I mean, and and I do think it's because those three know my voice so well. Yeah.
26:13
>> You know, and and they also put a lot of trust in me.
26:16
So, it's like once we have, you know, a lead laid down, >> they can sort of just press record and I can just start >> doing all the little backgrounds, doing all the harmonies, building out, you know, the world that really like makes it feel like there's a thousand of me there at once.
26:33
And um and that's really special.
26:36
And yeah, I mean, I think it's it's the best part about working with people that you trust.
26:40
>> Let's talk about trust.
26:40
Let's talk about you and Amy in particular. Yeah.
26:43
>> Um there's a beautiful photo on your Instagram carousel of you just lying on her lap. It's really cool. Thanks. >> It's really cool.
26:47
It's just a cander moment of the two of you clearly writing something or figuring something out and it's a real insight into like the chemistry the two of you have.
26:54
>> When you work with a coowriter to that level where you're finishing each other's sentences in order to come up with the perfect way to describe a feeling and emotion, it must feel like you've almost got someone in your head.
27:04
I think I for a really long time I guess the hardest thing for me was when I was writing by myself was having that sort of like that thing to bounce off of.
27:09
You know, >> it's tough especially when you're trying to tell your truth.
27:15
>> And exactly when you're trying to tell your truth, it's really hard to be speaking to someone else and have them bounce off of you in a way that feels reflective of yourself and the things that you're thinking in your head.
27:23
So Amy and I have just become the closest of friends over the last 3, four years now.
27:28
And and again, that's what made it feel so, you know, straight out of a diary, straight from a conversation between two girls.
27:35
And and that's really what it was.
27:37
I think a lot of it was, you know, and this is the first time that Jack and John had ever worked together because they obviously can do everything and then some on their own.
27:46
Um, but it just so happened that that, you know, I was I was wondering and sort of hoping what it would feel like if if I had a song with the two of them together because they're just two of my favorite people ever. >> How'd you do it?
27:56
Just did you divide and conquer?
27:59
I've locked him in a closet and I Yeah.
28:01
And I turn off the lights and um >> just like a couple of unanswered calls and Jack's on the plane, right? >> No. No.
28:05
I mean, but it was it was Yeah, basically nothing.
28:10
>> I mean, by the way, anybody would be it's like if Sabrina's answering like, "You know what?
28:13
I'm just going to you know what?
28:14
I'm just going to get the 905 to >> No, it was funny because we I already had some songs on this album written with just Jack and then a few songs written with just John."
28:21
And there was this part of me that was craving this sort of unity and um >> like a family almost like a protection almost like a sense of like we can like I need >> Yeah.
28:32
I think there's a there's like I said it's something where you never want to offend someone because they're so good on their own.
28:39
They don't need anybody else.
28:40
It was more just out of out of like pure me wanting to try and see if it made something feel different.
28:48
And >> and that's exactly what happened.
28:49
The first day the four of us got together.
28:51
We wrote Go- Go Juice and then we wrote Willpower and then we wrote When Did You Get Hot and then we wrote you know, a lot of the album after that.
28:56
And so I think for me it was it was really special to be able to see them um you know kind of be in different parts of the room working on different things and then Amy and I would go on a long walk and just be singing this second verse until we got it right and we'd come back and we'd be like, you know, I I I love this and I want to put it down and see how it feels.
29:15
And um it was just like very seamless, very effortless.
29:18
And you know, again, some of these ideas that I would be way too scared to tell other people, like there's just no judgment with Amy and I, cuz there's a very there's a very um close-knit bond, a very tight trust.
29:32
And and of course with with Jack and John as well, there I mean, you could only have two very strong, smart men in a room where all I'm doing is shit-talking men.
29:42
And I think that they're very open-minded to the behaviors of those around them, not themselves.
29:48
And obviously knowing there are some good wonderful people in the world.
29:52
I I I am, you know, experiencing a few of them and then a few not so much.
29:56
And I'm keeping it as real as I possibly can.
29:59
And there's like just a no judgment zone, which is >> how you get some of the the lyrics that feel a little bit >> unfortunate.
30:08
It's a brutal day at the office if you don't know yourself coming to work on that record as a as a dude cuz you're just sitting there just going like, damn, we suck. >> Yeah.
30:16
Well, that's kind of how it felt after Manchild came out, but I think after you listened to the album, you sort of >> No, there's a lot of self self accountability on this record and self-awareness.
30:25
And that actually brings me to the to one of the things that I feel everyone kind of jumped to the wrong conclusion on, which was obviously look, you know, provocation has always been a part of any kind of form of popular culture.
30:36
It comes along for the ride and >> um generally the be for the best artists, it comes naturally.
30:42
So I don't ever feel like you're putting it on.
30:44
It just comes for the territory of how you want to create.
30:47
That's the vibe I get very least.
30:50
>> But obviously when the album cover came out, people there was a lot of opinion.
30:53
It really divided opinion.
30:53
And I think without the context of listening to the album now and realizing that, you know, why am I constantly at least I'm getting from this as the protagonist?
30:59
Why am I in this position all the time?
31:01
Why am I constantly in this situation?
31:05
>> It did sort of shed a different light on the art.
31:07
But I wanted to ask you what that idea felt like when you came up with it and what you were trying to get across.
31:13
It's like so funny thinking about it now because I wanted a man playing with my hair and I actually used maybe five different men to take that photo because none of them could play with my hair.
31:28
They were all pulling it like they they were all like nervous to be holding my hair and so the grip looked like they were like yanking it and the whole purpose of the photo was supposed to be >> playful and >> cheeky and airy and playful of like you know I got myself here.
31:43
Here I am like this is someone I love but also someone that you know emotionally can >> be doing a lot with my heart and doing a lot with my emotions.
31:52
It was interesting that the photo that we landed on was was so special.
31:56
There was only one shot that was um shot on film that had that lighting the way that I wanted it.
32:00
Um with this facial expression where I'm clearly, you know, in control even though I'm >> on all fours.
32:09
>> And um and to me it was just perfect.
32:09
So when I showed my friends and family I was like there it is. And it was great.
32:17
And >> and there was a universe a and the reaction was mixed or was >> No, the reaction was I mean there was no shift in the universe.
32:25
It was it was a very normal day.
32:28
>> Um, so when it came out that was that was just my initial thing was to sort of be like, well then this is I guess why, >> you know, putting out something without having uh the context is always tricky. >> Yeah.
32:41
But isn't it funny that a lot of the reaction came from a certain type of individual who shows up on the album without even realizing it, right?
32:46
Like I feel like I don't know this is just my opinion but you know nobody's son talks to the responsibility of raising >> people >> right >> the right way. >> Yeah. >> Right.
33:02
And they're reacting to this like it's this kind of moral misstep. >> Yeah.
33:07
>> But that person on the cover if they see it as a negative could easily be >> their son.
33:11
I've also thought a lot about that in general of you know there is a a generation that gets offended by some of the things I do and it's a generation that that has either young children or they've you know or they've raised children and they're just sort of looking at it from a different point in their life sort of scolding and um >> scolding >> they all had sex >> many times cuz they popped a lot of kids out.
33:40
So, I just think about that and I'm always just like, it's so funny.
33:42
I mean, we're all we're all just so judgmental.
33:46
>> So, why did why did you get to have fun and now I'm not supposed to do what?
33:50
>> I'm not allowed to have sex, but you are like, I'm also a I'm also not to be so self-aware, but I am a pop star.
33:56
>> That's what I'm saying about provocation.
33:57
It comes along with the territory.
33:59
I mean, look at some of the people who have provoked to the point of almost being banned or in fact being banned by countries because of what they said on the record and they've gone on to become these kind of like quote unquote cultural diplomats of the universe.
34:11
>> I understand people's fear of, you know, people in pop culture being able to sort of um push a narrative that maybe is something that they're afraid of in their normal everyday life. And I'm aware of that.
34:23
Yeah, >> I I think it's hard for me because it's sort of like I watch movies and I watch TV shows that cover all the same themes and then some and and some of them inspire me.
34:34
Some of them I don't like myself.
34:36
Some of them, you know, and and that just is >> uh a part of it.
34:39
That's why I always say it's like, >> yeah, >> you're allowed to choose.
34:43
But >> here here's the fundamental skew on that, right?
34:46
Because I agree with you.
34:48
But here's the thing about a TV show is it's a it is a collective group of individuals creating a piece of art which which acts as a separate reality to the reality force field you're in.
34:56
But here comes Sabrina Carpenter who has an enormous amount of influence over our children because she speaks directly to them with art that is straight from the heart to their heart and that causes but that's where people get really tripped out because of the influence of the kind of art that it has.
35:09
Not to say visual arts uninfluential but music is magic. >> I know.
35:13
I think it's just when I was younger, I also had my idols >> Yeah.
35:19
>> taking their clothes off and running around and >> and I didn't do that. >> Yeah.
35:24
>> myself until until I got older and felt inspired to do that whenever I wanted to in the setting that I wanted to and telling the stories I want to.
35:30
I also think I mean it's that's why I say I sort of like to give more credit to the younger audience and not even just the younger audience audience that's my age too.
35:41
You know just because you see someone doing something does not mean you have to do it. >> It's very true.
35:46
>> I wanted to get back to one of your favorite days in the room.
35:48
I want I wanted I wanted a story from you where where it was just a really beautiful day when you were making this record and it felt good and what song came out of it. >> Oh wow. Oh my goodness. It felt like every day.
35:58
It really did feel like magic.
35:59
I mean, the day that we made um Never Getting Laid was very special. >> Such a groove.
36:05
>> And then the day that we made House Tour was was etched in my brain.
36:10
>> Jimmy Jam and Terry Law's goodness right there.
36:12
That's like that's so lovely to hear that rhythm again.
36:14
That new Jack swing and that tempo. >> Yeah.
36:17
Well, I mean, and that was just purely because it was like, >> you know, this sort of infectious.
36:21
It gets you moving from the second the song starts, which I think was some a goal of mine.
36:29
And um >> yeah, >> you know, there's only so many ways that you can sort of make that a great song.
36:36
And and I had this idea of the of the house tour and I'm the house and it just it it comes >> Yeah.
36:42
>> sometimes just like lightning in in a moment and then it's a very quick process of just like and then you know we leave and we come back and we listen and we're like >> so it's actually good I think.
36:53
No, it's a great metaphor.
36:55
It's a great metaphor and if you ever choose to make it literal as well, it's an outstanding sidebar business too. Interior design. >> Thank you.
37:02
If I if I have the time, >> I'll do it. >> Yeah.
37:05
>> Um, but those two days were really really special. >> What about Willpower?
37:08
That that's one of my favorites on the record for sure.
37:09
And it brings out this really country that this kind of rootsier side of your music which has been building for a while and it's clearly a nod back to your upbringing and what you listen to.
37:19
>> People see you as this pop star and that you've got all this charisma in that world.
37:22
I want to talk a little bit about the roots side of this record.
37:24
You have a fiddle on your record.
37:26
So, >> so I just want to >> Great fiddle. >> Great.
37:30
Yeah, it's a great fiddle solo.
37:31
So, I just want to know about that that side of your upbringing and and where those sounds came from.
37:36
What did you you know, where did they come from?
37:37
You brought them along for this record.
37:40
>> They've just been waiting to come out.
37:40
I think again because I love so many different genres and styles of music, it would it would be hard for me to sit down.
37:48
Maybe I'll do it one day, but to sit down and, you know, purely write a record that is just one sound sort of, >> but you know, you have that Carol King album menu.
37:56
I mean, >> oh, just give me a second to cook. You know what I mean?
37:59
Like, I keep thinking about that, too.
38:00
I'm like, you know, when my legs aren't working so well, let's sit at the piano for a while and there's so much time for all those kinds of records.
38:07
So, I'm I was excited that this one could have like a bit of that variety of like it makes you want to get up and dance around the room but not necessarily like, >> you know, in such a choreographed manner, something that feels very loose, very free.
38:21
And I think uh Willpower >> Willpower is just the story of my life.
38:28
Um and it's mine and Jack and John and Amy's favorite that we've we've we've said that we've ever made with each other before.
38:36
Um, but definitely together.
38:38
And I think it was just because the hook is something that is just so infectious.
38:43
Couldn't stop singing it the whole time.
38:47
>> Right through my head right now. >> Yeah. And and same.
38:49
And it's it's one of those that just hasn't left me since the day we made it.
38:53
>> But I mean, I have to give so much credit also to to um John and Jack because the production made it become this alternate universe that is just so fantastical.
39:05
And you know, the ELO influence in in some of these songs was so important to me.
39:09
And um and I think they did a really amazing job at making it feel just very crisp and expensive sounding to me, >> you know, and you produced it with them.
39:21
So I want to talk about, you know, that experience of kind of because there's some arrangement on this arrangements on this record that are like >> grade A out of control sort of like whoa.
39:32
And you love a key change. >> I do.
39:35
So, you know, >> I don't want to do too many, but we we have a lot of weird half, you know, hole and then like going back to a half. Yeah.
39:43
Almost stuff that isn't super detective detectable to the ear, I guess, um, initially.
39:48
>> And that's that that's the Swedish thing, too.
39:49
Like, that's what I mean, I feel like this album really picks up where Aba left off way back in the day, and it's they still sound like they're in the future. >> Yeah.
39:55
I mean, I think it's because it's all the it's all the songs I love.
39:56
Um I always was so fascinated by how abbisonons could they're literally just saying the most heartbreaking thing and it sounds so happy. Yeah.
40:06
>> And uh it's all because of the chords and it's because of the musicality and just how incredible the hooks are.
40:10
So um you know there was a lot of that for me to want to accomplish.
40:14
But I think thankfully Jack and John, like I said, they can do everything on their own, but they do really trust me and they really trust when I when I am able to say like, I don't think this is right.
40:27
I think we could push this further here.
40:29
I think this is watering down the whole song.
40:33
And I think, you know, these this song is about the vocals.
40:35
This song is about the the production.
40:36
This is like, you know, really really requiring space.
40:41
Knowing where space is necessary, you know, I think is is hard because when it's it's just so fun to >> keep going, >> play and keep going.
40:48
>> Maximalism is the point. Yeah. On the day.
40:50
It's only later when you listen back to it or even a fan listens to it and goes, "Gosh, there's a lot going on here." >> Yeah.
40:54
And I always pay attention, you know, when I'm playing it for my friends, if they can hear the lyrics, if they can understand what I'm saying, if they can, you know, take it all in, or if it feels like if there's a this reaction by the end of the song, sometimes it's good and sometimes it's bad, you know.
41:08
>> What song did you say from the crew?
41:08
And I mean that genuinely like what song did you feel like they thought they had it under control and you were like no I really you used a couple of examples like that's watering it down or that doesn't need to be there.
41:18
>> Um I think a little bit of each song and and that's why they were so you know gracious to allow me to co-produce the whole thing with them I think because they know that I'm very um I'm I'm very opinionated on every little sound that I hear.
41:30
And I think, you know, with When Did You Get Hot was a good example of a song that wouldn't have been on the record if we didn't take the time to sit down and like actually try things.
41:37
It actually tried different versions of that song.
41:42
Um that we could we could borrow little elements from House Tour and little elements from Tears that could make that song feel like it belongs with everything else.
41:50
Um and I think that that's where, you know, they are just full of ideas as well.
41:57
And I and I wouldn't be able to do it with them if they weren't.
42:00
And they're they're just so gifted.
42:01
I I really it comes so naturally to them, which is why it feels like lightning.
42:06
You're able to be like, "Can you do" and they could just immediately, you know?
42:10
Um for the fiddle solo, like that was a great example where, you know, for a while it was sort of like we had a we had a rough fiddle in there and the melody was the melody had to be a hook.
42:21
It had to be something that you remembered because >> can you imagine if you got a fiddle fiddle player in here and did a really substandard melody.
42:28
>> Well, it's just like freestyling the fiddle in a moment where the song is growing and growing and growing.
42:32
It's like, no, this has to be as sticky as the rest of the song.
42:35
Um, and John sent an amazing voice memo, his voice doing the whole fiddle. Is >> it a mouth fiddle? >> Yeah, mouth fiddle.
42:42
And and it was like that that's it. That's perfect.
42:46
>> But, um, it's a great solo.
42:46
So, and then it was like, hey, that's the vibe. Do that. >> Yeah. Yeah.
42:50
I mean, and then, you know, you have Jack playing the guitar solo on We Almost Broke Up Again last night.
42:53
You have John playing the guitar solo on Sugar Talking.
42:56
They're incredible musicians themselves.
42:57
And >> Bleach has played on the record, too. Is that right? >> Well, yes. >> Amazing. >> Yeah.
43:01
Um and and I think for me because I again like know them and trust them so much.
43:07
They they're just so they have such great taste themselves, so I don't ever really have to worry too much.
43:11
But um but yeah, I think it's it's wonderful when you can have uh such brilliant people that are still so open-minded and still so humble.
43:22
They're never sort of trying to >> know it all.
43:26
Um and that's the only way you can make anything that feels new and interesting.
43:31
>> You know, the way you described willpower was so cool.
43:32
You're like, that's my that's my whole life.
43:34
Like that's everything I love kind of coming together in one place and and a beautiful realization.
43:38
Um, you know, when you were a kid in the house, what role did music play?
43:44
Was it a driving force in the dynamic of the of the family chemistry or was it more something you had in your bedroom and your siblings weren't so engaged?
43:53
Like, how did music flow through the house?
43:57
>> Music was was everywhere.
43:57
My parents were the kind of parents that love to sit on the porch at the end of the night with a glass of wine and music playing and and that was really important, I think, for me.
44:07
Um, we, you know, we had a piano in my house ever since I was born.
44:11
Um, we had musical instruments around from the second that I asked for one.
44:15
You know, if there was, if I really wanted a guitar, then on Christmas >> that would there's a guitar.
44:19
And and I'm obviously very lucky to say that.
44:21
Um, and and have parents that were >> just so supportive of a dream that could easily be a very silly, you know, thing that turns to nothing.
44:32
So, um, but I think they knew because I was always really attached to it and wanting to know more.
44:38
And, um, you know, from the second that I saw a movie where someone was singing, I was right up next to the screen trying to do the same thing.
44:45
And, um, my parents had very different tastes in music.
44:49
My dad was a big Rush fan, big Queen fan, big Beatles fan.
44:52
My mom was a a big, >> you know, Paty Klein, Eda James, Dolly, Artha.
44:59
Uh there was so I mean Carol King so many great ones and and that's sort of why I feel so lucky because I just was was they're not good singers >> your parents.
45:12
>> No but they are really they have really lovely tasted music.
45:16
>> You know you're the youngest of of four girls.
45:19
>> So you have three siblings.
45:19
Um >> what does that what does being the youngest of four teach you about the concept of adversity when you're trying to achieve your dreams?
45:30
Well, um, being the baby is a really unique Are you the baby of your family?
45:36
>> Yeah, I'm the youngest of two. >> So, I don't know.
45:38
It's a very unique experience.
45:41
And I only know it from my seat cuz I'm I was a very strongheaded baby.
45:45
You know, I wrote a in another song, an older song of mine called Exhale.
45:51
The first lyric is who puts the baby in charge because that's how it felt.
45:56
I I think that was always my personality from the time I was really young.
45:59
So, um >> I think in a lot of ways I I felt very supported to be >> to be outspoken and to also just really take charge of what I wanted.
46:10
And um you know, they they all had their different passions and different goals and dreams.
46:15
So, it it wasn't really so much like I was um fighting for that voice to be heard.
46:20
But I think I I think I was l lucky enough to have parents that wanted to make sure all their all their children had, you know, as much as they could to to do what they need and what they wanted and what they loved.
46:30
So you can have the best foundation in the world doesn't mean you're going to be, you know, the best product.
46:36
You have the worst foundation in the world, become the best.
46:39
It's it's just it's all based off of experiences.
46:43
>> Such a funny gig, isn't it?
46:43
You know, you >> your job is to try to tell your story and find your truth at any given moment to make others feel less alone.
46:51
>> But then >> you go out for 10 months and you got to put the show every time. Yeah. Every night. Right.
46:56
>> I'm a bit of in this climate.
46:56
It's a little scary to say, but I am a bit of a show must go on kind of girl, you know.
47:02
>> I think that was from maybe starting working when I was a really young age and also working in television.
47:06
If you get injured, it's like, well, how bad is the injury? Can I keep shooting?
47:11
>> You know, like can we put a band-aid on it?
47:13
And and maybe that's unhealthy and obviously admitting that people are going to be like, "Oh, poor girl. She has no idea. She's brainwashed."
47:18
Maybe, you know, figure that out later through therapy. >> Yeah.
47:23
>> Um but for now, it's something where again, like I said, I have a drive and I and I do love the feeling that I get when I when I get to perform and do the things that I love.
47:33
When I get to create the videos, when I get to make the album, when I get to be in the studio with the people I love making songs.
47:38
I think um that's that's the part that makes it all feel okay as cliche as that sounds.
47:44
So I um I try to just keep that mentality on especially when I am on the road and it gets lonely.
47:50
But I also like call people and I also have friends and I >> You got your dogs?
47:56
>> I have my dogs >> on the cover of Dog.
47:58
>> My dogs on the cover of Dog.
47:58
They're very famous, very spoiled.
48:01
>> I only found out about Dog the other day when your dogs are on the cover of Dog.
48:04
I was looking I was looking around for some tidbits to talk about and I was like, "Oh, there's a dog."
48:07
Well, they put it on the map cuz they're so famous, those dogs. >> What are they? What are your dog? I should know this.
48:11
This is where fans are going to tear me a new one.
48:13
Uh, what are your dogs names?
48:16
>> They're Goodwin and Louie. >> Goodwin and Louie. >> Uhhuh. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
48:19
And they're very I mean, again, it's it's sort of like, you know, how emotionally, mentally, physically taxing it can be.
48:26
So, trying to put some of those pieces into play that you know are going to help you feel like a person is really nice.
48:36
What's 52 gonna sound like? >> Carol King. I don't know.
48:40
>> How exciting though, right?
48:40
How exciting to realize that for all of this and this is wicked by the way.
48:45
I'm having the best time.
48:46
Thank you for directing this.
48:48
Thank you for the lighting. Thanks JJ. >> So great.
48:49
And it's so cool to see you and talk about this album and you know just capture this little moment.
48:53
But um to realize that like no one can take it away from you.
48:58
that album 52 is yours if you want it and you can make another 47 albums or whatever if you 45 albums if you really want to.
49:07
>> I think the the thing to keep in mind for me is I have so many goals and I have, you know, so many avenues and and things that I'd like to do and things I'd like to try and so I I do try to really take advantage of if I feel driven to make another album.
49:20
It's a lot of work that comes with it.
49:23
So I wouldn't just do it again because someone else was telling me to.
49:28
I'm at a nicer where I can sort of go, no, I'll do it if I if I feel like it's right for me.
49:35
>> And I'm lucky to be able to do that right now.
49:36
But that's sort of why I think I'm feeling so excited about this project in this moment because I know, you know, maybe in however many years, however many albums that come after this, they're not I don't I don't want to make the same album over and over again. I want to try to exp.
49:57
>> Yeah, >> it's um it's great for the music to get two albums in quick succession like this, but then you got to think about like are you going to tour it the way you tour Short and Sweet?
50:04
Are you going to extend because you've been doing headlining La Palooas and festivals all the way through this process?
50:08
I mean, the the comment I'm seeing most from people is where does she find the time outside of the quality of the record is where does she actually find the time to do this?
50:16
And so are you sort of physically and mentally prepared to just kind of light two cigarettes, one off the back of the other one?
50:25
>> That's what the touring is to me.
50:25
It's like you're literally going from one to the other.
50:28
>> I'm finishing the end of the short and sweet tour the end of this year.
50:29
And you know, again, like I said, it's because I I made short and sweet between the years of 23 24 and I made this album at 25.
50:39
Um, I think it'll be a really uh fun show where maybe I can incorporate some new songs without it being a whole new tour.
50:45
Um, but the festival shows that I do are a completely different creative than my tour.
50:50
And um, you know, I it's not saying that I figure it out as I go, but there is like kind of to what you said earlier, it's like how are you dealing with this like overnight class?
51:01
It that's more of of what feels overnight to me is just the pace at which things happen.
51:05
And already it's been a year since the last album and you know already you're sort of like okay I I agreed to do these shows a year ago and you know I'm in a different headsp space now and and and I'm never going to sacrifice again what feels good and and what I actually feel really like strongly about.
51:22
I'm the same way with videos.
51:24
If I make a video and I'm like >> this does not meet my standards and if it doesn't meet mine it's not going to meet everybody else's and you know I don't want to just put out a video for the sake of putting it out.
51:34
That's why I didn't do a video for Bed Cam or a video for Juno on the last album because I was I was like truthfully I don't I don't think I want a fourth single with a video that doesn't match up to the three that I made that I felt so confident in.
51:50
And it's sort of I feel the same way about the tour.
51:52
You know, I'm I'm going to make sure that it's something that I feel really great about and um you know, and then that'll come when it comes.
52:00
don't want to get spoil too much, but I'm I am really excited because I do think that that side of it is always so fun and and gives the people that, you know, maybe feel a certain way about songs a chance to really hear them in the element that they're designed to be in, which some of them are just so made to be done live.
52:17
>> This album's going to just it's going to come alive and the bigger it's already ready.
52:21
Just listening to it, you can hear it.
52:22
I wrote down I was listening to the album the other day on my own.
52:24
Uh, and I wrote down at the very end when it finally finished and Goodbye Ended, I wrote, "Hooray, let's do it again."
52:32
That's what I wrote cuz it does feel like that.
52:33
I feel like the album comes to an end.
52:35
It's like, "Let's fall in love all over again."
52:36
And if if it if I get my heart broken, then great.
52:38
Cuz this was just a great way to experience that with my friends.
52:42
And so, I don't know if that was the intention of the album, but that's what it felt like to me.
52:47
I think I came out of a a a sad situation um a lot less bitter than I intended or expected to um with like a little bit more of the like you know what there's there's two people involved.
53:04
It's not and and and this is part of like growing up.
53:06
I don't I don't want to be enemies with people that I loved. I loved them, you know.
53:11
I think obviously it depends on what happens and what goes down and how much you feel like you can truly trust that person.
53:18
Um, but I do I feel like it is one of those situations where even the album starting with Oh Boy was sort of like a it's an eye roll to yourself being like here we go again, you know, and and I think that that's something that feels very reflective of of this time in my life where you don't really have a lot of time to sort of mope and weep.
53:37
you kind of just got to get back out there and and that not even in a dating way and not even in a romantic way, but just get back out there in terms of like, you know, if if if you're staying inside and you're thinking about how everything's going wrong, everything's going to go wrong and you're going to be inside.
53:51
And I think, you know, a lot of so literal my whole life, um, but a lot of life is is truly happening >> out there.
53:59
So, it's it's it's that like switching on that mindset of being like, you know what, just because you deal with something that's um difficult and maybe really hurts you doesn't mean that you're damaged.
54:13
Doesn't mean you can't do it again.
54:14
Doesn't mean you can't open yourself up.
54:16
And I think this one was was a newer heartbreak experience for me. >> Sabrina Carpenter. >> Woof. >> Thank you. >> Thank you.