0:03
I see a large IPO on the horizon.
Search this video
0:11
>> You're surrounded by journalists. Hold your position. Overnight success.
0:30
The place 3000, >> right? There's misinformation.
1:02
>> Clearing order inbound. >> Let's just roll.
1:10
We are surrounded by journal. Report your position. Come on. Get up. Trust the experts here. We are expert found.
1:44
I see multiple journalists on the horizon. Stand by. UAV online. Blaze. Double blaze. Triple blaze. Double kill. bike is wins. Team deathmatch. We are experts. Triple blade. Let's just roll. Right.
3:08
Mark clearing order inbound.
3:23
You're surrounded by journalists. Hold your position. >> Strike one. >> Strike two.
3:40
Activate golden retriever mode.
3:59
>> Mark clearing order inbound. Five good.
4:20
I see more journalists on the horizon. Stand by. You're watching TVPN.
4:39
Today is Thursday, February 19th, 2026.
4:43
We are live from the TV alum, the temple of technology, the fortress of finance, the capital of capital.
4:46
Let me tell you about ram. com. Time is money. Say both.
4:49
Use your use corporate cards, bill pay, accounting, and a whole lot more all in one place.
4:52
to uh practice that >> handshake tutorial.
4:54
In case you were wondering how to shake hands with your uh with your friend or with your enemy, it works. It's the same. It's the same process.
5:02
You grab the hand with great force. >> Yes.
5:06
>> And underrated while you're while you can establish dominance.
5:09
You can handshake m clearly.
5:12
>> Huge missed opportunity for Sam and Dario >> to to crush each other's hands to the point where the other one is bleeding and crying and really set the tone.
5:18
They have to rely on voice transcript. >> Exactly. Exactly.
5:22
It would have been much better to just watch crushing in the hand.
5:26
You know, you do those like strength training for a reason. >> That's right.
5:30
>> Every once in a while, you don't want to get caught lacking.
5:31
Anyway, uh there's big news today.
5:34
We're canceling the SAS apocalypse. >> It's over. >> RIP SAS apocalypse.
5:38
It It occurred from January 2026 to February 2026 and it's over now. We're declaring it over.
5:44
No, it's not it's not entirely over.
5:46
Who knows where where the market will go?
5:49
>> In many ways, it's just getting started.
5:51
>> In many ways, it's just getting started.
5:52
But I do think we're starting to see uh a bifurcation in the sloppable companies and the unsloppable companies.
5:57
There should be some divergence between companies that have figured out how to integrate with AI, how to retool their business model or just show that their business model was strong all along.
6:06
And we'll go through that.
6:09
>> Yeah, there's a category of SAS that is SAS, but they will be fine. >> AI beneficiaries. >> Yep. Totally. Totally.
6:15
Uh, should we should we watch Have you seen Pacific Rim? >> No.
6:19
>> We got to watch this pump up speech.
6:20
>> Let's do it >> because this gets me fired up.
6:21
We're canceling the apocalypse.
6:22
It's movie night again in class.
6:24
Uh, this is from Pacific Rim.
6:28
We're going to a minute 22 in here.
6:31
Jump ahead >> cuz this is one of the greatest speeches.
6:34
>> You don't want to watch. You don't want to.
6:35
>> Okay, we can watch the full It's raining. It's raining.
6:37
We'll watch the full thing.
6:38
We'll watch the full thing. It's my favorite movie.
6:39
This is honestly my favorite movie.
6:41
I might watch an Apple Vision Pro this weekend. Who knows? It's such a great film.
6:44
And did you know the director of this film won an Academy Award? That's right.
6:51
This is an Academy Award-winning director at work. >> Who's the director? >> Beneo.
6:59
He won for Shape of Water.
6:59
He did not win for Pacific Rim, but he should have because this film is fantastic.
7:07
>> So, the story line, aliens, giant alien Godzillaike creatures called Kaijus have descended upon Earth. No.
7:12
And only robots that are as big as the Godzillaas can fight back. But you need two people. It's much like us.
7:20
You need two pilots because the mental load of driving the robot being in the drift is too intense for a single person. It will drive you crazy.
7:29
So two pilots, two Jagger pilots must pilot the ship together and share the load.
7:35
And and so they both punch and then the robot punches. It's amazing. It's It's a great film. You'll love everyone.
7:43
>> He's got a good speech.
7:43
You you you're you're known for giving great speeches just like this.
7:47
This is this is a Jordy Hayes original right here. >> Yes. Movie day again.
7:51
Welcome to the stream, Ryan. >> Today.
7:57
>> At the edge of our hope.
7:59
>> At the edge of our hope.
8:02
>> Things aren't looking good at this point. >> End of our time. >> The end of our time. AI is upon us.
8:07
We've chosen not only to believe in ourselves, but in each other.
8:11
>> We must believe in the stocks of the SAS companies.
8:14
>> There is not a man nor woman in here that shall stand alone.
8:18
>> No, no public company shareholder will stand alone. We stand with you.
8:22
>> We face the monsters that are at our door and bring the fight to them.
8:26
>> We're bringing the fight to the Foundation Labs.
8:28
>> We are cancelling the apocalypse.
8:30
>> We're canceling the apocalypse.
8:30
We're canceling the sass apocalypse. Woo!
8:38
And then the greatest soundtrack ever.
8:43
>> I love >> I only I only really had to ever give one speech like that last year, but it hit. >> It hit.
8:49
>> The team needed it >> in that we did and we got through >> critical moment. >> We powered through. >> We powered through.
8:53
Um, so anyway, we've lost a lot of good soldiers, a lot of good market cap out there during the SAS apocalypse.
9:00
$2 trillion, something like that, maybe.
9:02
that, maybe. It's been rough but uh and and I mean truthfully like the narrative does make sense like uh agentic AI systems co-pilots foundation models like these are disruptive innovations fundamentally they're counterpositioned against traditional seatbased SAS pro pricing we know this legacy companies will be caught in a jam because pivoting
9:21
the entire business model is difficult you can't just flip a switch and start charging customers in a completely different way your investors will freak out because your finances will be deeply unprofitable all of a sudden in the public market just very like it'll take time to build back up and also like company cultures and organizational
9:38
structures are aligned around particular in incentives and so you have to rewire everything for a different business model and that's really hard and that's why people are sounding the this is a disruptive innovation this is not a sustaining innovation like mobile or cloud um the the the AI version of you know x y or z company uh will not be like the mobile version of that SAS
10:00
company >> yeah that And even the even the the safer bets like the system of record there's this concern around okay well can an agent just kind of replplatform you like does that uh if you can onboard to a new system faster does that decrease the lock in but yeah >> continue so uh the SAS apocalypse was always a little bit of an indiscriminate hammer. It felt like uh I mean there was
10:21
It felt like uh I mean there was one article in the journal that was like anthropic launched a legal tool and that caused the selloff and it's like well could be that or it also could be clouded code or it could be open claw or codeex or spark or like there's a million different things going on in the AI world.
10:37
That one just kind of took hold but uh it became this like indiscriminate hammer that just kind of hit every company and during uh earning season every CEO had to talk about AI and the threat of AI.
10:46
Um, but I think we will soon be finding out what companies are truly unstoppable, as you put it, and actually benefit in the AI future.
10:56
And there's a bunch of early signals.
10:57
So, let's run through them.
10:57
Uh, first, Google's comeback.
11:00
I mean, this was the first victim of the apocalypse.
11:02
This one happened like a year or two ago.
11:03
Why would anyone search Google ever if an LLM could get you a better answer and fewer clicks?
11:10
Of course, Google quickly caught up to the frontier.
11:12
They launched AI overviews.
11:13
They flexed deep Deep deep minds research previews.
11:15
They showed off the power of the TPU.
11:17
Core business is surviving and thriving do due in part to Gemini helping understand intent so they can deliver ads on longer more complex searches.
11:26
So Google's been doing fine.
11:28
They're they've sort of already building back from the SAS apocalypse that they experienced. Then you have meta.
11:32
Uh will mute will user minutes migrate over to LLMs?
11:36
Will Sora destroy Instagram overnight?
11:39
Uh will slop clog the feeds?
11:41
Um, maybe uh but not before Meta's transformer-based gem model absolutely destroys ad targeting and just makes everything so much better and reacelerates revenue.
11:51
And we've talked to a lot of folks about that.
11:52
Uh, and so Meta is doing very well even though they haven't like figured out their AI strategy, rolled out any of the new crazy frontier models from MSL.
12:00
like the business is great because they're because they're, you know, >> yeah, I think they have they certainly argue they have an AI strategy which is to use AI ML to to make uh really good ads >> and they've been doing it for a decade.
12:14
>> Uh but it's more on the product side, right?
12:16
So is it is it the Manis? Is it net new products? Is it is it Meta AI? >> Yep.
12:21
And so there's it gets more interesting when you go to the smaller companies, not super small, but uh Spotify doesn't really need to invest in generative AI.
12:30
generative AI. I heard a good analogy that was like did did did should should uh Spotify have like released a guitar so that people could make more music like no because people will pick whatever tool is available and then they will release that music on Spotify and then the algorithm will sort it and so
12:47
um the like you know these artists if they're using AI tools or maybe they're just prompters whatever you want to call them uh they will bring AI music to the platform it'll be filtered by algorithms slop will be in the trough But only the most delicious slop will bubble to the top of the trough. Uh so it's good to be
13:03
Uh so it's good to be in the trough business as long as you have an algorithm that sorts the trough the slop from the more sloppy slop. I don't know. >> Well said.
13:13
>> Um current data shows uh AI music currently underperforms dramatically on a percentage basis.
13:18
Like the number of AI songs is huge, but the number of of like actual minutes watched and and is is low.
13:25
Even if that flips, Spotify still benefits.
13:27
Uh, let's switch over to Shopify.
13:29
Uh, you can definitely vibe code an e-commerce website now, but Shopify is not a major cost driver for most businesses that use it.
13:35
You're you're talking maybe like $1,000 a month for some companies, and it's a lot of headache that they just don't have to even think about.
13:43
Um, and then there's a whole bunch of advantages that Shopify should benefit from in the AI era.
13:48
It's uh very fullfeatured, so it's actually hard to replace.
13:53
setting up a new store is faster than waiting for a prompt to return. Like it's all pre-built.
13:57
Um, and it's just like create a new copy in the database of Shopify when you set up a new a new store.
14:03
Uh, and then AI tools benefit from all the context and data that Shopify has across the entire platform.
14:09
And then lastly, Aented Commerce doesn't replace Shopify checkout.
14:13
It's just a front end to the to the checkout.
14:15
Much more mobile or >> payment. Exactly. >> Post purchase.
14:19
>> So if it's driving activity, that's actually a net benefit.
14:21
Um, and so there's a whole bunch more examples.
14:25
Roblox is another interesting example. I heard a crazy stat.
14:27
67% of global non-China spending growth in the gaming industry last year went to Roblox.
14:34
Like gaming had a bad year.
14:36
Roblox had a fantastic year and I think the stock's down like 50%.
14:41
And so, you know, yes, you can vibe code a video game, but the Roblox network and ecosystem is already at scale and it's absolutely dominating and they're monetizing a ton.
14:48
and their monetization on a per minute basis is I think like five times lower than other platforms like if you comp it it to Tik Tok or Instagram and so whether it's ads or more in-game currencies or something like the willingness to pay should go up.
15:04
Now there's still a question about you know uh do folks age out of Roblox how long can they keep these customers on?
15:09
Will they get older folks to jo to rejoin Roblox at some point or join Roblox for the first time at some point?
15:14
But um certainly you know not probably a beneficiary of AI vibe coding and being able to build more stuff and again filtering the the different apps that are built so that grow a garden or steal a brain rot can be power law outcomes within that ecosystem.
15:29
That's the value of filtering and being an aggregator.
15:31
Um lastly you got to consider Salesforce.
15:36
Mark Beni off has been duking it out with Jib Kramer on CNBC over seatbased proc pric pricing in an AI era for over a year now.
15:42
And it's 100% true that there are some amazing AI native CRM startups that are aggressively trying to eat off Beni off's plate.
15:46
But Anthropic is hiring a Salesforce admin.
15:49
We we put up a card for this because we really enjoyed this.
15:53
But um where where where was it? Did we put this? Yes.
15:56
Uh unemployed vibe coder. Bro Sass is dead.
16:00
You can build a CRM in minutes.
16:00
No modern company is going to buy software ever again.
16:03
repost and I'll send you my PDF that killed Salesforce.
16:05
And then Anthropic is has a job listing for Salesforce admin because they're growing so fast and so big that they uh that they need someone just to be full-time job manage their internal Salesforce project that's so big. So >> iconic.
16:20
>> Is this is this revealed preference?
16:20
Is there something else going on here?
16:22
Are they is this all person going to be reinforcement learning data for them? Who knows?
16:27
But at least for right now, they're going to be paying Salesforce. Uh and time will tell.
16:31
Um, and then lastly, uh, you know, the SAS apocalypse, it might arrive in full at some point, but and we'll start to see real revenue declines, which I think would be like the real signal of major disruption.
16:43
Um, but, uh, Figma just announced 70% growth in weekly active users, 40% year-over-year revenue growth.
16:50
We have Dylan Field coming on the show in just a little bit.
16:51
He'll be on at 130 today.
16:53
Um, and so, uh, there's growth all over the SAS ecosystem, and things don't seem to be decelerating or de or or slowing down.
17:02
Um, it's definitely go time, though, and it's time to revisit sources of strength. >> It's war time.
17:08
>> It's time to become unstoppable. It is war time. It's founder mode time.
17:09
And at least you need to explain why you were never sloppable in the first place.
17:14
And that's what Harley uh, at Shopify did a really good job of on the earnings call.
17:21
He got so many questions he had to back up and just reexplain.
17:23
You know, people got in the weeds on the AI checkout thing and he had to reexplain like no like aentic checkout happens on top of the on top of the Shopify checkout.
17:32
The economics are exactly the same.
17:34
They're exactly the same.
17:36
So like like don't worry basically. >> Yeah.
17:39
So going back to the fax machine example, in 1999 was the first year that showed a significant drop in the sale of physical fax machines.
17:51
They dropped by 10% in a single year. >> When was that? >> In 1999. >> 1999. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Okay.
17:59
>> Uh and so that's a that is not a okay growth just started slowing.
18:02
It had been slowing up until that point, but it was slowing and then it like fell off a cliff. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense.
18:11
Quickly, let me tell you about Vanta, automate compliance and security.
18:12
Vanta is the leading AI trust management platform.
18:16
And let's also pull up the linear lineup and tell you who's coming on on the show.
18:20
Linear, of course, is the system for modern software development.
18:22
70% of enterprise workspaces on linear are using agents.
18:26
>> We have Sigil coming on to talk about >> Web 4. 0. >> Web 4.
18:31
0 a new a AI agent project that he's working on where AI can deploy, transact, and pay its own bills.
18:36
run micro economies without humans in the loop.
18:40
Then of course we have Sager and Jetty from Breaking Points coming on.
18:45
Always always a fun conversation.
18:45
And then Dylan Field uh coming on to talk about uh their earnings and everything that they're doing with Claude Chad GBT Gemini and all of those folks.
18:54
And then we have Peter uh from Code Metal announcing his series B.
19:00
Uh Eric from Free Form, another series B.
19:02
And then uh Lubisa from Talis announcing $169 million raise uh building uh model specific AI chips.
19:14
So banger lineup today and uh can't wait to get to those folks.
19:19
>> Should we read through this uh Goodwill Hunting meme?
19:21
This sums up the SAS apocalypse pretty well.
19:24
And I love this meme template from malinvestment. jpeg.
19:31
Of course that's your contention.
19:31
You're a first-time SAS bear.
19:32
You just got finished listening to some podcast Dario onto our cash probably.
19:36
Now you think it's the end of white color work and seatbased pricing is screwed.
19:39
You're gonna you're gonna be convinced of that till tomorrow when you get to something big is happening.
19:44
Then you'll install Cloudbot on a Mac mini vibecoded dashboard on top of a Postgress database and say we're all just a couple Ralph loops away from building a Salesforce competitor.
19:54
That's going to last until next week when you discover context graphs.
19:57
And then you're going to be talking about how the systems of record will be disintermediated by an agentic layer and reposting OAI marketing graphics.
20:05
Well, as a matter of fact, I won't because ultimately the application layer is just the application layer is just business logic on top of a cred database.
20:12
You got that from Satcha's appearance on the BG2 pod December 2024, right? Yeah, I saw that too.
20:17
Were you going to plagiarize the whole thing for us?
20:20
Do you have any thoughts of your own on this matter or is that your thing?
20:24
You get into the replies of anyone posting a SAS ticker.
20:25
You watch some podcasts, then pawn it off as your own idea to impress some VCs and embarrass some of an nons who's long sass.
20:34
See, see the sad thing about a guy like you is in a couple of years you're going to start doing some thinking on your own and you're going to come up with the fact that there are two certainties in there are two certainties in life. One, don't do that.
20:44
And two, you drop 30 grand on Mac Minis and LLM API calls to come up with the same conclusions you could have got for free by following a handful of EC accounts. It's great. >> Roasted. >> I love that meme. That's fantastic.
20:57
Anyway, uh there's another there's another post in here to close out the SAS apocalypse.
21:01
Um Buck says, uh there's a there's a long history of dominant platforms vertically integrating and consuming the entire economy.
21:07
That is why the largest companies in the world today are railroads, utilities, steam engine manufacturers, and CPU producers. >> Love it. >> Great. Very, very good.
21:15
Let me tell you about Turopuffer.
21:17
Serverless vector and full tech search.
21:18
Build from first principles and object storage.
21:20
Fast, 10x cheaper, and extremely scalable.
21:22
Uh, Bland hit the timeline yesterday.
21:27
They're they unveiled Soulja AI, the first rapper to augment your voice with AI.
21:33
>> Let's watch this video.
21:34
>> Soulja Boy or use his voice yourself.
21:37
>> I want to see >> with sound. Of course.
21:38
>> I want to see what Soulja Boy.
21:40
>> I was the first rapper on YouTube, the first rapper with his own star, the first rapper with the iPhone, and now I'm the first rapper to automate his voice with AI. >> BL, baby.
21:54
Uh people, I thought this was a a fun concept. >> Yeah.
22:00
>> But many people did not.
22:00
It uh uh it it didn't it didn't really it didn't really resonate.
22:06
It definitely got attention.
22:06
I bet they I bet they drove a bunch of business from this.
22:09
>> 1 million views, 600 likes. >> Yeah.
22:11
Usually on a million views, you want to be skit sitting somewhere around 30,000. >> Couple thousand.
22:16
No, a couple thousand likes.
22:18
I mean it something that people love and gen genuinely resonates will get >> upwards of 20 20,000 or more. >> Yeah.
22:28
>> Anyways, uh I I I think it's cool.
22:28
I'm surprised we haven't seen more of this kind of thing. Celebrities coming in.
22:32
I think Soulja obviously is not at the peak of his career, so it makes sense for him to dip his toes in here.
22:38
And I bet this was surprisingly affordable uh for Bland.
22:44
So hopefully hopefully they got some some some business out of it.
22:49
>> So yeah, it's interesting.
22:49
11 Labs has Michael Kaine, Bert Reynolds, Richard Fineman, Sir Lawrence Olivier, Dr.
22:53
Maya Angelou, James Dean, Judy Garland, uh Albert Einstein.
22:59
Then there's some AI voices you can just do like Will, Jessica, Eric, Bella.
23:03
Um and there's community voices as well.
23:06
Um, I wonder if they should do more uh more promotion around Michael Kaine.
23:14
Like that's clearly a licensing deal, but I haven't like the reason this breaks through is because there's a video of Soulja Boy.
23:22
It's a real video and it's funny and he's like good on camera, right?
23:26
>> The entire premise is you can have Soulja Boy answer your business phone calls, which is like pretty which is >> pretty differentiated, >> which is extremely differentiated.
23:33
And if you're, let's say you're you're a kind of business, let's say you have a smoothie shop. >> Yeah.
23:40
>> Like adding this will certainly get people talking about it.
23:42
I called >> I called uh the acai bowl place and Soulja Boy picked up. >> Yeah.
23:48
>> Like this will this will >> uh uh I'm not I'm not uh I'm not going to I'm not going to pile on. I I think it's fun. >> Yeah.
23:56
>> Yeah. I I think that also just as a top offunnel activation like you hear about this you go and you're you're like okay realistically my business doesn't need Soulja Boy but my business does need like just a normal voice anyway >> kind of missed an opportunity to say
24:11
like I'm the first AI >> rapper with no W no W >> yeah play on play on words >> which they didn't do from what I'm seeing >> well if you want intelligent real-time conversational agents head over to 11 Labs reimagine human technology interaction with 11 labs. >> Ice Tea, according to Justine Moore, is
24:28
>> Ice Tea, according to Justine Moore, is an AI accelerationist. >> This is great.
24:33
>> He is hitting the timeline.
24:33
Somebody said, "I wish more older rappers realize that AI shouldn't touch the music industry in the way that impacts the creative work, including music videos."
24:43
When I say AI, some people group in >> stem separation >> or restoration in that into that, and that's not what I'm talking about.
24:52
Anyways, >> so basically stem separation is when you have a full song and you want to ste and you want to separate out like the guitar from the drums from the bass like the stems. >> Got it. Got it. Got it.
25:02
>> You know stems because you're you're a guitarist, right? Is that the word? Guitar player.
25:05
Um um but I says, "I disagree.
25:08
Fans want us to make and produce the music then shoot an expensive video then they get it for free if they have an Apple subscription or Spotify pay us 0. 007 cents a stream. >> 7.
25:18
>> Uh the days of expensive videos are over. There isn't even MTV.
25:20
AI is the only sensible way to add visuals to a song.
25:24
You can hate it all you want. It's the future. >> It's the future.
25:28
Is Ice Tea still going to Is he dropping uh music videos recently?
25:33
Like has he actually is he just predicting this or is he is he living this and actually putting out AI videos.
25:41
Um it it it certainly does make sense to just bring down the cost of music video production.
25:47
I mean, that's what a lot of CGI did.
25:48
A lot of a lot of music videos are just the artist on a green screen with cool graphics in the background and that's often enough.
25:55
Or I mean the there used to be the age of like the expensive music video, wasn't it?
26:02
Thriller was like multiple millions of dollars and you cannot spend that much anymore. No way.
26:07
Um and so a lot of a lot of music videos have come down in cost done more in CGI.
26:12
It feels like AI will get there, but you have to be the right artist and you have to message it correctly because there's gonna be crazy backlash in >> Matthew McCcon hit uh Variety this morning. What >> you say?
26:24
>> And commenting on AI, Brandon just shared it. He said, "It's coming. It's already here. Don't deny it.
26:27
It's not going to be enough to sit on the sidelines and make the moral plea that no, this is wrong. It's not going to last.
26:34
There's too much money to be made and it's too productive." >> AI acceleration.
26:39
>> So, I say own yourself, voice, likeness, etc.
26:42
trademark it, whatever you got to do so when it comes, no one can steal you. >> Yeah. Yeah, it makes sense.
26:47
The MCA voice, I mean, that's an iconic voice.
26:49
I think uh there's definitely a huge deal to be done.
26:53
and the AI voices, although we're in a boom right now.
26:56
we're in a boom right now. I remember being able to go on ways and pick I think Snoop Dogg had a deal but there were a number of celebrities that had uh you can imagine like an Arnold Schwarzenegger get to the chopper but then also like take a left and it's like
27:12
fun and they would just pre-record all of the different lines like keep going straight bear left take a hard left and you record like 20 different lines and then the program just picks the audio file for the correct moment because there's only like 20 different things you could possibly say in a navigation app. And so, uh, a whole bunch of, uh,
27:29
And so, uh, a whole bunch of, uh, celebrities did deals, at least temporarily.
27:33
I don't know how many of them are still around.
27:34
Um, but those types of things, like there's a there's clearly a framework for that.
27:38
And all the agencies and all the unions understand this.
27:41
So, I feel like we're we're in this weird like bizarro world where people think that like, oh, like I does law doesn't exist and we aren't going to be able to deal with this.
27:53
It's like no, like there's there's like decades of lawyers who like are foaming at the mouth being like, I can't wait to sue bite dance.
28:00
This is going to be awesome.
28:02
We're going to get >> the only thing is that uh it's going to require real cooperation from >> platforms.
28:08
The platforms are ready to cooperate. >> I disagree.
28:11
I don't think I don't think they're cooperating that hard.
28:13
There's so much there's so much content >> of a bunch of individuals on YouTube on Meta >> uh that is using their name and likeness and putting them in situations that they would never ever ever agree to >> and it you can argue that it's not good for their brand, >> but it's incredibly entertaining.
28:32
And so the platforms leave the content up.
28:35
And yes, you can do takeown requests and things like that, but >> by the time you do a takedown request, it's got 200,000 likes or >> you don't need to do a takedown request.
28:46
You just need to do pay pay me pay me. That's what people want. They want to be paid.
28:49
That like I I think I think the the message in that Matthew McConnA post is not is not like uh it's it's super critical that no one ever uses an image of me or or my voice ever.
28:59
It's that look, if somebody's profiting off it, that's that's my IP.
29:03
That's my >> I mean, I I read his comment more around making movies >> saying don't use AI to make this scene that would normally take four weeks in some exotic location and a thousand people.
29:19
>> Obviously AI is going to be used for that.
29:21
I think there's a separate issue of people generating Matthew McConna doing and saying things that he would never agree to that are sort of compromising or again >> putting him in situations or having him say things that he wouldn't >> ever agree to even if he was getting paid. >> Yeah.
29:37
I just think like the the answer is like more AI.
29:39
Like you look at the Sora uh like the Sora cameo functionality and like it was it was pretty easy for me to say like always depict me as a bodybuilder and as silly as that is like it worked like like when we did that collab post with the OpenAI team they were like we don't know how to get around this like you should be able to go in and and and change this but they didn't because like it is actually enforced at like a pretty low level.
30:06
Alex from Outtake, who we've had on the show.
30:08
He does this for a bunch of Outtake does this for a bunch of different celebrities where you basically sign up for Outtake and they're constantly monitoring the entire internet like filing takedown requests on your behalf.
30:22
>> Uh, and so I think again I think it'll end up I think the platforms will do something, but it will also be somewhat of a tax.
30:29
>> Let me tell you about Cognition.
30:29
They're the makers of Devon, the AI software engineer.
30:32
crush your backlog with your personal AI engineering team.
30:36
>> Uh let's actually watch the full video of uh the AI impact summit in India. Narendra Modi is there. Insane lineup. Insane lineup. They pulled everyone. They got Sundar there.
30:46
They got Alex Wang there. They got Dario. They got Sam. And here we go. And they're zooming out. And what do we see?
30:58
Two fists raised in opposition. Iconic. throwing up the axe. Throwing up the axe.
31:05
>> Someone someone on X was uh was saying that >> haters would say this is AI. >> Yeah.
31:10
That it was a little shout out to Elon saying you're not here but you're you're here with us.
31:16
>> And if you scroll down, someone used AI to show them hugging, which is very nice. >> Yeah.
31:21
Like we said, missed missed opportunity for one of them to handshake >> to do Yeah. a handshake mugg.
31:28
>> Uh but u >> they'll be back next year.
31:30
Yes, >> I think this is an annual thing.
31:33
>> Yeah, it seems like a banger lineup.
31:33
Uh I wonder if there'll be talks that will come out of this.
31:36
Any more comments or just was it off the record or will there just be reporting out of this or maybe it was just talking points so there was no real like news dropped but uh with when if you get those folks together it should feel like Davos there should be interesting uh sort of new positions that are coming out. >> Yeah.
31:52
The uh the Mrol founder was apparently speaking there and the room was like almost empty. >> Wait, really?
31:58
And so, >> uh, and yeah, some somebody was saying like, "Hey, this guy >> is actually like crushing it in Europe."
32:06
Like, show them some respect. >> Put some respect. >> Sit down. Take notes. >> Yeah. Sit down and study it. Don't just listen. Don't just listen.
32:14
>> Let me tell you about Labelbox.
32:15
Reinforcement learning environments, voice, robotics, evals, and expert human data.
32:19
Labelbox is the data factory behind the world's leading AI teams. >> JC Foster, >> yes.
32:24
says, "Three months ago, I quit my job to chase a dream to build an affordable, convenient, plasticfree coffee maker.
32:32
Grateful for everyone who has reserved company Pure Steel." Pure Steel.
32:39
>> This is a correct ratio.
32:39
7 million views, 34,000 likes.
32:40
This is what you were getting at. Huge.
32:43
What is up with the laptop?
32:46
>> So, I guess he was at SpaceX. >> Very long. >> He was at SpaceX. >> Okay.
32:49
>> Okay. business >> and one of the when I immediately saw I mean >> can we talk about this laptop >> look what is going on zoom in on this laptop >> I think this is he took the it's like an optical illusion I think right it's using the the fisheye lens
33:06
>> oh okay >> because if you fold if if based on this angle if you folded the screen >> the screen would just cover the keyboard >> um >> like the trackpad would just be hanging out like like an untucked t-shirt under a sweater Makes no sense. Sorry, Jordy. I got Sorry, Jordy.
33:20
I got distracted by the extremely long long laptop.
33:25
Tell me more about the Pure Steel Company of America.
33:30
>> The Pure Steel Company of America. So, uh, yeah.
33:33
So, anyway, started going viral.
33:35
>> Very, very cool product.
33:35
If you've tried to make coffee without having plastic be a part of the process, it's incredibly hard and you're pouring hot liquid over plastic, some of that plastic will disintegrate and end up >> end up in your cup of Joe. Yep.
33:49
>> So, the product makes a lot of sense.
33:50
One of the issues is it this post uh went extremely uh viral and somebody said somebody posted this thing's only 80 bucks.
33:56
Go reserve this right now.
34:01
>> And so that post started going really viral. >> Yes.
34:05
>> This thing is $80 and made of American glass and steel.
34:07
Go reserve one right now. That got $18,000.
34:10
>> And so this is of course not going to cost $80.
34:12
There's literally no chance. Okay.
34:15
Um uh but I think people were thinking, "Hey, I can buy this for 80 bucks.
34:20
It seems like the steal of a lifetime."
34:21
I think something like this once you actually build it will probably need to cost somewhere like $600, $700, something in that range. >> So really rough.
34:32
The other thing is pull up pull up the uh pull up the website.
34:33
I want I want I think this guy may have knocked off the Aurora website. >> Huh.
34:41
>> I'm just realizing this in real time.
34:43
So, Roar is of course the >> Oh, it does kind of look similar.
34:45
It's kind of >> This is This is pure steel.
34:47
Look at the Look at the header.
34:49
Look at the header system with which uh EMTT Shine >> designed for us.
34:53
And even look at the imagery.
34:55
Their their imagery is AI. >> Okay.
34:58
>> And now pull up the the Aurora website.
35:00
>> Oh, it has the same rounded corners.
35:02
Yeah, it is very similar.
35:05
>> I think he got a little inspired. >> Okay.
35:09
Uh, so if you see the the header and everything and the the the the way the buttons work, go scroll down even more.
35:17
>> If you go down to some of the more lifestyle imagery, like they b it's the same like sty, you know? >> Yeah.
35:23
>> The kitchen, the photography. >> Close. Yeah, >> a little close.
35:27
>> It's a little, >> but he's bootstrapped.
35:28
He's got a bunch of sales now.
35:31
I'm sure he'll figure out I'm sure he'll figure out. >> Okay.
35:36
Well, I mean the the SpaceX like lore here is that they should be able to deliver this at $80.
35:43
Like it says transparent pricing.
35:45
It's time to know what you're paying for.
35:46
Traditional coffee makers cost $200.
35:48
Pure steel is the same amount of materials but less markup.
35:53
And so they want to deliver this to you. I think for $80.
35:56
Um will be very interesting to see how they do it, where they change prices.
36:03
Um, if they change prices, they might be able to deliver. I don't know.
36:08
Maybe it'll be uh VC subsidies.
36:09
Maybe it's $80 a month and you have to pay for some subscription to turn it off.
36:15
>> It's like a seat based pricing. >> Seat based pricing. Yes.
36:17
How many cups a >> How many coffee drinkers?
36:22
>> Well, no, it should in the age of AI, it should be consumption based.
36:23
So, you should pay per coffee cup.
36:26
>> How many tokens each cup? >> Yes.
36:28
No, but I I I don't know.
36:28
This doesn't seem impossible to get stamped steel and and and assemble it and have it I mean it's a pretty basic device, right?
36:39
It just needs to warm up a pot of coffee.
36:42
Like it needs to boil water.
36:44
That's not that's not crazy to me that that could be $80. Um I don't know.
36:48
>> No, I mean I know through Aurora. Yeah.
36:51
>> Like dealing with these materials. >> Yep. >> Uh it depends.
36:54
Like looking at some of this design here, the way it's all bolted together.
36:58
>> Yeah, it's like >> seems pretty basic.
37:00
>> Even the even the the labor cost of doing something like this, I think >> the robots I don't know. >> Yeah, we'll see.
37:07
>> Amazon does have an all steel coffee maker.
37:10
They have some results for all steel coffee makers in the $60 range.
37:15
They got a Black & Decker here.
37:15
It looks like it's covered in plastic, but you know, it's at least advertised as stainless steel.
37:21
There's some stainless steel options on here, but yeah, a lot of them are are uh in the in the several hundred range. So, I don't know.
37:27
We'll have to keep we'll have to keep uh keep an eye on it.
37:31
The the the >> Yeah, I'm excited about this.
37:32
I would happily I would happily >> looks great uh buy one of these. >> Yeah, it looks great.
37:36
And I mean, a lot of a lot of these companies will uh underpric the first run.
37:41
So they'll say, "Yeah, okay.
37:44
We're we're just going to take a loss on the first thousand units that we ship and then we will raise prices over time and then when we go into retail, we'll raise prices more and you know there will just be a process for that."
37:55
Uh if you go this viral, if you have a lot of uh a lot of demand, you might be able to raise money to offset that your suppliers or your you know, you might just make no margin for a long time.
38:06
There's there's a way this gets built for $80. >> Yeah.
38:10
And he was at SpaceX for two years.
38:11
SpaceX is is a good good organization.
38:14
We talked to a space >> except except the issue is he was a finance analyst at SpaceX.
38:18
So he might need to poach some of the engineers.
38:23
>> Well, I mean, yeah, analyzing the finances of SpaceX being like, "Wow, they make rockets." >> Wow.
38:27
We could be we could be making plastic free coffee. >> Just do it.
38:30
Think from first principles. Uh I don't know. Um let's see.
38:33
Van Man says, "The response to this insanely simple yet non-plastic coffee maker should usher in the era of dumb, simple appliances that work and don't poison you or connect to your Wi-Fi."
38:44
I think that there there is huge demand for this.
38:48
People want simpler devices.
38:48
Did I tell you about >> my coffee machine connects to my Wi-Fi?
38:54
I'm like, it it actually I don't think I did, but it always wants it. >> It actually does. Yeah. >> Is this not a joke? Wow. Okay. Yeah.
39:01
>> And it's like it's a lot of it's a lot of steel. >> Pour over.
39:03
So, no, but >> I'm like, you don't need you don't need access to the network, bro.
39:07
Just focus just put put the beans >> in the just put the put the coffee in the cup. >> Yeah.
39:14
Uh, I have another story, but first let me tell you about Octa.
39:16
Octa helps you assign every AI agent a trusted identity.
39:18
So, you get the power of AI without the risk.
39:20
Secure every agent, secure any agent.
39:22
Um, so I had a little tiny bit of IoT in my house just to turn off and turn on the lights >> as my dishwasher emails me. >> Fantastic. Peak performance.
39:34
Uh, I had a I have a tiny bit of IoT just for lights that are hard to reach, lamps that are plugged into basically a wall socket that has a little box that connects to the Wi-Fi.
39:47
There's an app turns on that turns off the light.
39:50
I think the company just went out of business because the s the server just doesn't work and the app doesn't load anymore.
39:55
And so you just all of the stuff that I bought is just worthless and I just need to like >> rip it out. It's extremely dumb.
40:02
In fact, uh very very silly.
40:04
And and >> is dropping alpha.
40:07
He says recommend the Oti Faber Fabera plastic free electric kettles. That's smart.
40:13
And then he says they should put ads on the pure steel coffee maker to keep it around.
40:18
>> See, think outside of the box.
40:18
I'm I'm calling it $80 shipped.
40:20
That's what it's going to cost.
40:23
Now, there'll probably a shipping fee on top of it.
40:24
Uh shipping to Alaska, that is dangerous territory.
40:28
Do not do not give free shipping nationwide because >> Alaska is technically part of the nation and you will be paying $50 to get stuff up there.
40:37
It is not it is not on Amazon Prime necessarily um for for your for your default upstart e-commerce business.
40:44
So, uh, so I got completely cooked by my by my Wi-Fi light system, and I was thinking like, okay, certainly I can vibe code this. Definitely not.
40:53
Definitely just going back to switches.
40:55
Definitely going back to the stone age.
40:57
I'm just going to be lighting candles in my house because uh that's the future that I'm going to be living.
41:01
>> Yeah, I had a I had a funny moment this morning.
41:03
Uh, >> John and I went to breakfast with Brandon and I I parked in a garage.
41:06
John was on the street and I was as I was leaving uh I went and put put the ticket into the machine.
41:15
Then I put the validation in right after it just like was working for a while. Then it failed. >> It tried it again.
41:24
>> Uh then I was like, "Okay, the validation's maybe not working." So I paid with a card. It failed.
41:27
Uh and so then I start call calling around and I'm stuck.
41:33
I'm stuck for 15 minutes. John John is long gone.
41:35
He's at the Ultradome already.
41:37
I'm sitting there on on support with somebody who's not even in LA trying to get somebody in LA to just let me out of this parking garage.
41:42
Then somebody finally comes after 15 minutes and I was like, "Hey, can you escalate this?
41:49
This this kind of this your software is like bugging out. It doesn't work a lot."
41:52
And they're like, "Oh, well, like actually all the systems in this area don't don't work have been failing a lot."
41:58
And so I was like, "Okay, like that maybe it's a bigger issue than I than I even thought."
42:00
So, I was not feeling the software singularity in the in the parking garage this morning.
42:07
>> I I I texted Jordy, you couldn't just uh you couldn't just vibe code and improve software system to run on the ticket taker machine that would process payment more quickly and reliably.
42:15
No, because there's a gatekeeper, of course, and it is impossible.
42:20
There's one uh parking garage in uh in Pasadena that uh doesn't take cash or Apple Pay, so you have to have a physical card.
42:29
And I get caught lacking every once in a while and I'll have to push the button and then talk to the guy and be like, "I'm sorry.
42:33
Like, can you just let me out?" >> You're like, "Really?
42:35
You're the guy that always wants a free parking spot." >> Yes.
42:38
But last time I was there, there I saw someone else get caught lacking and I paid it forward and I paid for his parking. Let him out. I was heartwarming.
42:47
>> I don't even care what it is.
42:48
>> You should have thrown up a card for that.
42:49
So karma I I'm like buying karma very strategically, not altruistically. Yeah. Not effective. >> Yeah.
42:55
Brian says that's hardware.
42:55
They got the hardware footprint. Yeah.
42:56
They got us locked in their hardware.
43:00
>> Their foot is firmly printed on your chest as you try and leave. >> It's brutal.
43:04
Really quickly, the New York Stock Exchange.
43:05
Want to change the world?
43:07
Raise capital at the New York Stock Exchange.
43:08
Stop making excuses and just do it. Please. >> Just do it. >> Please.
43:12
>> Uh Michael Bur is going off on >> what happened. >> Karp. >> Okay. Financial Times form 10.
43:20
>> Palanteer CEO Alex Karp has his head in the cloud >> saying he's a frequent flyer >> and they get into some of his business and personal travel expenses from uh during the years ended December 31st 2025 and 2024.
43:34
The company incurred expenses related to the use of the executive aircraft of 17. 2 million and 7. 7 million respectively. >> Mhm.
43:43
It's quite the feat to spend 17 million in a year on business and personal travel, particularly when the jet's not even a rental.
43:50
Jeffrey's analyst, Brent Thone to pick, runs the numbers.
43:56
Assuming use of a midsize jet with an estimated operating cost of $7,000 per hour.
44:00
This implies roughly 2400 flight hours or about 28% of the year in the air.
44:06
Even under a more conservative assumption of a high-end jet such as a G650 at an estimated 15,000 per hour, the 17 million still equates to approximately 1,147 flight hours or 13% of the year. Notably, this 17.
44:20
2 figure is more than double Karp's executive aircraft expense in 2024 and appears elevated relative to peers with Meta CEO spending 1.
44:29
8 million and PaloAlto Network CEO spending 2. 4 million. Terrible comps. >> Why?
44:36
Like Karp is obviously constantly traveling all over the world.
44:41
He's an international businessman. Yeah.
44:43
>> I know podcasters that do that do like 250 hours a year. >> And then >> Oh yeah.
44:48
>> Like like you're talking about going from like somebody who like >> travels like a good amount at like let's say like 200 hours a year.
44:54
like to me uh yeah, I might catch some flak for for defending uh private uh >> aviation >> aviation, but it just doesn't seem that crazy.
45:06
Like the whole the the the the entire reason that Palunteer is growing the way it is is like they're doing deals in Japan, they're doing deals in in the Middle East, they're doing it's just like this guy is a global deal maker.
45:20
And I think you should, if you really wanted to do an analysis on this, you should look at all the international deals that they've done, maybe ignore the US, >> look at all the international deals and see if Karp is actually delivering.
45:34
Because when we hear that they're signing some new contract for hundreds of millions of dollars in Japan, I think it makes sense for the CEO to fly out there and shake some hands. Yeah.
45:45
>> And do some real business. >> Yeah.
45:46
Uh, so of course he's not flying on a on a on a on a on a midsize jet like you know around the entire world.
45:54
Of course he's in >> That's the funny thing. They don't know. >> Yeah.
45:56
So they're saying maybe it's a G650 which would be uh 1,000 flight hours.
46:03
Maybe it's a midsize jet that would be more like 2,000 hours.
46:05
It could be a King Air and he's spending 8,000 hours in the air. No one considered that.
46:13
It could also be a 747 and he's only spending like 500 hours in the air.
46:18
Uh there's a wide range here, but I like to imagine that he's in a single he's flying the prop himself and the cost per hour is only like a couple hundred bucks cuz he's just paying for gas, but he's like taking every meeting in the air.
46:32
Literally one-on- ones hop in.
46:32
We're going we're doing laps. We're going >> back. We're flying around. Yeah.
46:37
I like I like to imagine him doing putting up 8,000 hours in the air just just uh every waking hour flying around in King Air or Cessna Citation or something. Um very funny.
46:51
Well, whether you're long palunteer or short Palunteer, head over to public. com.
46:57
Investing for those that take it seriously.
46:58
They got stocks, options, bonds, crypto, treasuries, and more with great customer service.
47:02
>> Uh Max Farren's probably the most underrated poster in the world.
47:08
>> I can't believe he has 3,000 followers. It's so lovely. He's the best.
47:09
He's the general manager at Dorash podcast >> in the world.
47:13
To be honest, the best part of making our wedding registry is that it has forced us to really think about what we need to make our place feel like a home >> and I I don't know. >> And he went on Zola. >> Is this is this real? >> Uh I don't think so.
47:26
I think he I think he might do this might be inspect element or some Photoshop uh or a little bit of both.
47:34
Maybe maybe it's geni, but in his wedding registry, he put the Nvidia B200 tensor core GPU. It's $30,000.
47:41
He put the Nvidia H100 NVL GPU.
47:46
$15,000 is still needed there.
47:46
He put the Nvidia A100 80 gig GPU.
47:51
>> $15,000 >> still needed.
47:53
This is how you turn a house.
47:56
>> Help Max make his place feel like a home. Head over to his Zola.
47:58
And uh I it it does feel >> you don't have to be going to the wedding to >> Yeah.
48:04
to contribute >> to contribute. Get him get him a GPU.
48:07
>> You don't and and I do feel like uh this is probably inspired by actually putting together a turbine. >> Wedding registry. That's a good one. >> That's a great gift. >> Or a plot of land. >> Yes. In Abalene. >> Yeah.
48:20
Somewhere data center friendly. >> Yeah.
48:22
Um but uh if if he is getting married soon, congratulations and uh and uh I hope you have a wonderful wedding with a registry full of whatever you actually >> said get get the man of Cessna talking about cars.
48:36
Cessna 172 just flying over the Atlantic. >> There we go. >> With Starling. >> Yes.
48:44
>> Making 10 stops on every island like Amelia >> Airheart.
48:47
So, uh, Jirro Ticket says, "Do you think he has monetization on?"
48:53
>> Who's he talking about? >> Kam Kani.
48:55
>> Uh, Kani's been putting up insane, uh, numbers on X.
49:00
>> Obviously, uh, quite the tense geopolitical situation.
49:03
geopolitical situation. I hope that hope that we're not uh starting a new war in the Middle East, but >> uh if Kmeni does have monetization on it certainly is a a real going to be a real revenue line item on the uh I have to
49:17
imagine does does X sanction accounts >> like you would think they would >> I think creator payouts are probably geographically limited to certain countries where the payment rails work if a country sanctioned like I I actually get my ex creator payouts just straight up through Stripe. Yeah, it
49:32
Yeah, it just comes through Stripe.
49:34
In fact, I think I had to set up a Stripe account to receive it. Uh, and then link that.
49:39
So, you know, it's only valid where Stripe is uh is functioning.
49:41
Anyway, let me tell you about MongoDB.
49:43
What's the only thing faster than the AI market?
49:47
Your business on MongoDB. Don't just build AI.
49:50
Own the data platform that powers it.
49:52
Uh, Will Brown is chiming in on whether or not Prime Intellect is a Neolab.
49:58
We put him on the Neol market map yesterday, >> but he's firing.
50:01
I also said I I think I said my Intellect was like the prototypical Neolab.
50:04
Okay, >> so he's really Yeah, putting >> a funny camera angle. What's going on here? >> Okay, I like that. Different.
50:10
Switching >> mixing it up. >> Over the shoulder. I'm interviewing you.
50:16
I'm getting to the bottom of it. You answer me. You answer me, Tyler. Well, okay. Okay, we get it.
50:20
Production team got some new PT PTZ cameras. Uh, we get it, guys.
50:27
>> Anyway, why does Prime Intellect fail the Neol test?
50:31
Will Brown says, "A true Neolab is either premodel, pre-product, or pre-revenue." And we're none of these.
50:40
Oh, we flipped it around on you.
50:40
You had me in the first half.
50:42
But congratulations on being postmod postro. Postrevenue.
50:46
Prime Intellect on a generational run and happy to have Will Brown over there.
50:52
Uh we have news on the Warner Brothers Netflix uh Paramount front.
50:58
Netflix is open to raising their bid for Warner Brothers.
51:01
There's a 35% chance that Netflix >> like a stone. They were at like 70%. Dang.
51:07
Uh can we pull up the actual culture?
51:09
I want to know where where it's at today.
51:12
Um it's still it's still up there.
51:15
I guess uh Netflix is at 35% but at one point Netflix was at 72%. Yeah.
51:21
Uh 72% in July um or December. December.
51:25
And uh I I'm going to eat my words.
51:25
I mean, I don't know really anything about media uh media deal making here and what when the ins and out of this deal.
51:33
We've had some folks on the on the show to break it down for us, but uh it it does seem like there's an unexpected flipping and so it's been fun to >> Yeah, I can read a little bit here.
51:45
>> Pull that up and let me tell you about Finn.
51:46
ai, the number one AI agent for customer service.
51:49
If you want AI to handle your customer support, go to Finn. ai. >> Yes. >> Uh pulling it up.
51:53
Netflix uh apparently has ample room to increase their offer.
52:01
They are uh >> yeah obviously uh >> better $325 billion company Netflix I think everyone believes that they're they're good for it. >> Yeah.
52:15
>> Um I'm trying to get the right article.
52:18
>> The Oh uh the Reuters article is not complete.
52:22
>> I have the Reuters article here.
52:23
>> Yeah, you can read that.
52:23
Netflix has ample cash and could bump up its offer for HBO Max owner Warner Brothers Discovery if competing bidder Paramount Skydance increases its own offer.
52:31
Two people with the knowledge of the matter said the two media giants have been locked in a heated rivalry.
52:36
Oh, you see what they did there?
52:38
That's new popular show Heated Rivalry.
52:40
It's about hockey uh over Warner Brothers and its storied catalog which includes iconic franchises like Harry Potter, Game of Thrones, DC Comics and Superman.
52:49
Though Warner Brothers is moving forward with a March 20th shareholder vote on Netflix's offer, it has given Paramount a week to come up with a more compelling bid.
52:59
Netflix has bid 2775 a share or 82.
52:59
7 billion for Warner Brothers Studio and streaming businesses, while Paramount has offered $30 a share or 108 billion for the whole company, which includes Discovery Global that houses CNN, HGTV, and other TV assets.
53:15
The creator of Stranger Things is sitting on a lot of dry powder.
53:19
That gives it some flexibility to up the ante, people said, holding about 9 billion in cash and cash equivalents on its balance sheet as of December 31st.
53:27
Warner Brothers rejected Paramount's latest hostile takeover bid on Tuesday, but gave the rival studio until the end of Monday to submit a best and final offer.
53:37
We're going into the final rounds now.
53:39
Price will likely be the deciding factor.
53:41
Warner Brothers concerns around funding and regulatory risk are real, but at a high enough number, they become secondary. Got it.
53:51
>> Dude, David Zazlov must just be over the over the moon right now. >> Bidding war.
53:55
He's been working >> the bidding war of his dreams. >> Yeah, it's great.
54:00
>> Every CEO that uh is flipping an asset dreams of of a bidding war like this. >> It's great.
54:07
Uh uh Britzman expects Netflix will counter with an improve with any improved offer from Paramount.
54:13
But the real twist is that these deals were never apples to apples and it may ultimately come down to how much value the board and shareholders assign to the network business that Netflix would leave behind.
54:23
So you need to do a sum of the parts.
54:25
What's the value of just CNN, HGTV, the linear TV channels?
54:28
Uh put that in because Netflix doesn't want that stuff.
54:33
They just want uh the IP and HBO now, HBO Go, HBO Max.
54:36
I can never keep it straight.
54:40
Anyway, Paramount said it would continue to push the tender offer.
54:43
It has launched for the studio opposing the inferior Netflix merger and still plans to nominate directors for the upcoming Warner Brothers annual meeting.
54:51
All eyes are now on whether C the CBS parent improves its offer, which Netflix is allowed to match under the terms of the merger agreement.
54:58
Warner Brothers chairman uh said and and David Zazlov said in a letter sent to Paramount board on Tuesday, "We continue to recommend and remain fully committed to our transaction with Netflix." >> Yeah.
55:10
I don't see how Netflix actually gets approved on this one.
55:15
>> You think that you think they're cooked?
55:17
>> I think I think if I think if Trump is souring on it, it's over. >> Yeah, >> it's over.
55:23
I was so I was so pilled on the whole YouTube is the real competitor here. Watch time matters more. Think about screen time.
55:31
Roblox is a competitor to Netflix.
55:34
Tik Tok's a competitor to Netflix.
55:36
Fortnite's a competitor to Netflix.
55:38
But >> I don't think like that.
55:40
It's a very >> You have to think about the the entertainment industry, the core industry, people that make >> television shows and movies, things that you have things that you have watched movies that I have watched.
55:55
>> We got Sean Frank in the chat. >> Oh, we do. What's up, Sean? How you doing?
55:59
>> With a crazy I can't tell what his what his profile picture is doing.
56:02
>> Let's Let's do Let's do an ad read for him.
56:04
I'm sure you'd appreciate that.
56:06
Let's tell him about Gusto, the unified platform for payroll benefits and HR built to evolve with modern small and mediumsiz businesses.
56:12
You know, >> one was for you, Sean. Yes. >> Honorary.
56:16
That one is dedicated to Shawn Frank.
56:19
>> Let's pull up another video dedicated to Shawn Frank. >> Okay. Yes. I like this.
56:21
Ye old fitted great helm. >> Wait, start it over.
56:27
>> What is Is this AI or not? Do we know? I don't even know. But I like it. >> This is so funny.
56:37
>> You need one of these. >> The steel man. >> The fel.
56:40
>> This is the final steel man.
56:42
>> This is the final This is the final steelman helmet.
56:43
The TVPN hat with the great helm on it would be really, really good with all the logos.
56:48
Uh, >> we should actually just make a branded Knights helmet for you when you're Steelman >> with logos on it. For sure. For sure.
56:58
Actually goes kind of hard. >> Look at this scene. What's going on here?
57:02
>> This guy's just hanging out.
57:02
And then look for a duel.
57:04
Oh, everyone's doing the uh what's that called? LAR.
57:07
Live action role playing.
57:11
>> That's the That's the real >> They don't even look like they're role playing.
57:14
They're really going >> They're really going into it.
57:16
>> You don't see that much anymore. I like I like Ye.
57:19
>> I still I still remember being a child and like just going to the park and seeing seeing a bunch of adults doing that.
57:26
>> I actually saw it but >> and having to get explain like getting explained >> Yeah. >> what was going on. >> Yeah.
57:32
It's one of those things that feels like it would like when you're looking from the outside you're like that probably is awesome and then you're actually doing like this is really uncomfortable and miserable like I don't know that I actually want to do the sport.
57:42
I'd rather do it in a video game. >> Anyway, met up.
57:44
We should organize a a a uh like a community meetup. >> A jousting. >> Yeah. Bring joustsing.
57:50
Jousting is cool though because it involves horses.
57:54
>> You know what we should do?
57:54
We should get all the freelancers to lance each other for free. They won't be paid.
58:00
>> I think that's where the name comes from.
58:01
>> No, I think they will want to be paid on a per project. On a per lance basis. >> Maybe. Maybe.
58:06
Uh, Meta has obtained a patent for an AI system that could simulate deceased users by analyzing their historical data, allowing the account to keep posting, messaging, and even making video calls in their behavioral style.
58:21
Uh, >> you thought I would stop posting after you killed me. Nice try. >> Nice try. >> I will continue.
58:27
You just created a billion John.
58:31
>> You just created a billion John Gugan posts.
58:33
posts. uh both satirical and uh and 500 words daily >> family member uh sent me this this morning >> disturbed >> saying is this real >> and uh >> we got to get Sager and Jetty's take on this I know this is right up his alley
58:48
he's going to love it he's going to love it that guy loves AI he loves tech loves business and that's it on the show >> he's going to love this >> I'm surprised I'm surprised you can patent this is just like a thing >> is this meta thinking out. You got
59:01
You got population collapse.
59:05
>> Oh, >> and obviously it's pretty hard to monetize a bot, but if you're driving >> in an AI doom scenario where all humans are dead, >> you want to still keep your services up.
59:17
You got to simulate all the dead people maybe. I don't know.
59:19
Is this is this doom pillers keep posting after death? >> Yes, we will, Jeremy.
59:25
We will definitely be getting the update from Sager recannabis for sure.
59:28
Yeah, there was there was there was a 4chan post apparently from a few years ago where somebody was like, "I'm an engineer at Meta and they basically fully >> I only saw a screenshot.
59:40
>> It may may or may not have been real, but it appeared to be from a few years ago."
59:43
And they were saying like, "I'm working on this feature. It seems uh bad." Interesting timing.
59:47
Obviously, uh Mark has been uh in LA this week.
59:50
He was getting he got grilled for us, I think. >> Wait, that was in LA?
59:56
I thought that was in DC. Oh, interesting. >> Yeah.
59:58
kind of rude rude not to stop by the ultra before you get before you get dispo deposed.
1:00:05
>> Um let's let me try to pull up uh >> a little warm up on TVPN before you go in front of the big guy.
1:00:12
>> Uh yeah, so he spent six hours >> okay >> yesterday the uh Corey Weinberg says uh has a quote, "We call Mark Zuckerberg to the stand."
1:00:22
Thus began Wednesday's nearly 6 hours of testimony from the Meta Platform CEO in a trial of a lawsuit brought by a young woman against several >> And this was about uh benchmark hacking in Llama 3.
1:00:34
>> Is that what he's on trial for? >> No. >> No.
1:00:36
>> Uh not as bad as that.
1:00:36
Contending that social media >> potential weakness in the ad model.
1:00:41
>> Is that what it's about? No.
1:00:43
>> Uh overspending on the metaverse.
1:00:45
>> Concerns about uh distillation.
1:00:45
I think >> Oh, distillation.
1:00:47
Yeah, that's why he'd be on trial for that. Yeah, that makes sense.
1:00:49
Well, >> pretending that social media causes depression. >> Okay.
1:00:54
>> Cory actually went to the courtroom, was hanging out for those six hours.
1:00:59
>> Legend, >> and it's a guy, Mark Laneir, uh, Laneir, the plaintiff's attorney, in a landmark case, who spoke with a faint Texas twang. >> Oo, I like that.
1:01:08
showed the courtroom dozens of internal emails and chats from Meta employees and executives over the years debating decisions like whether to ban the beauty filters teen used uh teens used on Instagram to mimic the results of plastic surgery.
1:01:19
Uh and so anyways, there's a bunch the features like that are kind of the focus of the case.
1:01:27
>> There's also there's also a cover a story on the cover of the Wall Street Journal today.
1:01:30
Social media bans for youth gain momentum worldwide.
1:01:34
And uh it does feel like a parenting skill issue a little bit like you know it is possible to keep kids away from social media if you are an you know an active parent but at the same time um >> I don't the only thing I would say we don't have we don't have ban it >> we don't have children >> with phones yet.
1:01:57
>> Yeah but that's deliberate.
1:01:59
>> Yeah that's deliberate but at a certain point like what >> they would love phones. >> Sure. Sure.
1:02:03
They just will not be having them. >> Yeah.
1:02:05
But at but at what at when when the time comes to give them a phone so they can communicate with you.
1:02:12
>> I mean I know my plan.
1:02:12
I will give my son a a disassembled iPhone 1 and when he can assemble it and and and piece it together and manufacture it himself here in America, then he can use it.
1:02:23
And we already ran this on Tyler 20 years later.
1:02:28
>> And then we and then we did get Tyler a phone.
1:02:29
This was a good benchmark.
1:02:29
We got Tyler Didn't we get you a real phone because of that? We did, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That was the reward. Yeah.
1:02:35
>> Well, that was also because I I installed the new iOS when it was still in beta and then I like totally destroyed my old.
1:02:42
>> We got to do another prank on Tyler soon. They're so good. >> Yeah.
1:02:46
Chad, if you have any any good prank ideas, let me know. >> Yeah.
1:02:49
He's like, "No, no, no, definitely not."
1:02:51
Uh, anyway, uh, let me tell you about Lambda.
1:02:54
Lambda is the super intelligence cloud building AI supercomputers for training and inference that scale from one GPU to hundreds of thousands.
1:03:00
Uh, we got some we got some birthday news.
1:03:03
Brenton, friend of the show.
1:03:06
His birthday is this weekend, and all he wants is a TBPN shout out.
1:03:10
Well, here you go, Brenton. >> Got it.
1:03:13
>> Thank you for coming on the show very early.
1:03:15
One of our first inerson guests at YC Demo Day, the first one we ever did.
1:03:18
Uh, and we got to hang out with him at uh at GitHub Connect and uh and seen all the stuff he's really fantastic.
1:03:28
>> He's been on a generational ride.
1:03:29
>> Works on startups at Microsoft.
1:03:29
He's also an angel investor.
1:03:31
So for his birthday, go ask him for some cloud credits. Yes.
1:03:36
>> Go ask him for some some angel money. >> Yes.
1:03:39
>> That's all he really wants. >> Yeah. Deal flow.
1:03:41
Bring him deal flow for his birthday. That makes sense. Yeah. And and new business.
1:03:45
If you're a startup, go over there and let him give you some COD credits in exchange for your business.
1:03:50
Uh let me tell you about Cisco.
1:03:53
Critical infrastructure for the AI era. Unlock. Did that go? Yeah, there we go.
1:03:57
Uh, unlock seamless real-time experiences and new value with Cisco.
1:04:01
Um, eBay is buying Depot secondhand. Thanks, Andrew. That's a good one.
1:04:07
>> Andrew is the king of VC dad jokes. >> He loves it. >> Fantastic.
1:04:11
Uh, so eBay is buying Depot from Etsy for $1. 2 billion.
1:04:14
And this is in the Wall Street Journal.
1:04:17
Uh Jamie Ione uh chief executive officer of eBay said Wednesday that the addition of depot to its portfolio would boost its footprint while also expanding its presence in the fashion market.
1:04:29
We are confident that as a part of eBay depot will be even more well positioned for long-term growth benefiting from our scale complimentary offerings and operational capabilities. Etsy acquired for$ 1. 63 billion in 2021.
1:04:41
So little bit of a write off but not terrible.
1:04:45
still cooking >> and the market likes it. Etsy is up uh 9%. >> Oh, wait. Etsy is up too. Oh, both them. eBay's up 3.
1:04:55
5%, but I don't know if the market's just broadly doing well today.
1:04:58
Uh I'm seeing a lot of red on the ticker, so I don't think so.
1:05:02
>> Sad apocalypse canceled tomorrow.
1:05:03
Nobody's watched TVN yet in the public markets.
1:05:08
>> I expect things will turn around before end of day >> immediately.
1:05:10
Uh eBay plans to crosslist products on its platform and expects the acquisition will expand its market share.
1:05:18
Depop's seller and buyer cohorts will gain access to eBay's financial services, shipping, and crossber trade solutions as well as its authenticity guarantee.
1:05:25
Young consumers are a key demographic for eBay as Gen Z and millennial shoppers are driving secondhand commerce.
1:05:30
Depop is also more popular as an app than a website, unlike eBay, which might bring in a new user base.
1:05:37
So yeah, good luck to >> Yeah, eBay is still such a force.
1:05:41
>> It is, >> but it is certainly not cool. >> Depop is cool. >> eBay has struggled. >> Jordy has spoken.
1:05:50
>> eBay eBay uh great business. >> Not not cool.
1:05:56
>> Uh but >> do you do you know why they call it eBay? >> Uh no.
1:06:03
>> Because it was founded in East Bay.
1:06:03
Oh, by some East Bay rationalists. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, for sure.
1:06:08
It was sort of a less wrong project.
1:06:10
It's right up there with anthropic.
1:06:12
Anyway, uh Altimeter is making moves.
1:06:14
Brad Gersonner, an absolute dog, is on a tear.
1:06:19
He bought new positions in Cororeweave, Shopify, uh he sold ARM, he sold Alibaba, and he added to his Nvidia, Microsoft, Amazon, and TSMC positions as well as Google.
1:06:31
He's making a lot of moves.
1:06:31
This is a great pick of Brad, too. >> It is a great pick. He's looking good there.
1:06:38
Diced, if I might say so myself. >> Hands hands going up. >> Yeah, >> up. >> Yeah, hands up.
1:06:43
That That's a man who's not afraid to shake hands. Got it locked in.
1:06:48
Let me tell you about Sentry.
1:06:48
Sentry shows developers what's broken and helps them fix it fast.
1:06:52
That's why 150,000 organizations use it to keep their apps working.
1:06:56
>> It's been some darker stories today. Finally, a white pill. >> Some good news.
1:07:00
Matt's owner, Steve Cohen, got a $3.
1:07:02
4 billion payday from his hedge fund last year. We needed this. We needed this. >> We needed this.
1:07:14
>> Slightly higher than uh slightly higher than David Ter.
1:07:19
>> I was worried about Steve.
1:07:19
Have you seen him in any Chrome Hearts? >> Zero.
1:07:24
>> I haven't seen him in any Balenciaga. >> No Rick Mills. >> No Rick Mills. No Rick Owens.
1:07:27
And we were starting to ask some questions.
1:07:32
>> Yeah, we're >> starting to ask some questions.
1:07:35
>> The question mainly, was he down to his last 20k?
1:07:37
It was completely possible.
1:07:37
I haven't seen him do a money spread.
1:07:40
I've seen him do some podcasts.
1:07:41
Haven't seen him do a money spread. >> Yep.
1:07:44
>> Tyler's getting better at the money spread. >> Are you practicing?
1:07:48
>> That is still like not even a level one money spread.
1:07:52
You need to lock in and watch the money spread. Don't even try that one.
1:07:56
you're you're five levels beyond ready for that level of money spreading.
1:08:01
Okay, that one kind of works. That one kind of works.
1:08:04
But when you actually understand the money spread community and what's possible, you will you will understand how much farther you have to go. Oh, so so so bad. So bad. Awful.
1:08:20
Um, here are the top earners in 2025 from hedge funds. Steve Cohen with 3. 4 billion.
1:08:28
David Ter at Appaloosa got 3. 2 billion.
1:08:30
Uh Izzy Englander at Millennium got 3. 1 billion. Chris Hone got three. Ken Griffin 2. 4. Dan Sunheim at D1 2. 3.
1:08:39
David Shaw from De Shaw 1. 6. Uh Element 1. 1. Bill Aman got 1 billion.
1:08:45
And Chris Ro got 930 million. So close to the 1B club.
1:08:49
I'm sure he's punching the air. >> Yeah.
1:08:53
So, this is gains on personal investment.
1:08:57
That means they actually closed out positions or this is just marks. >> Who knows?
1:09:02
It's just big big numbers.
1:09:03
I'm not digging it any further.
1:09:04
>> Uh Dave Portoi quoted this and said, "I think I have a solution for Mandani.
1:09:10
>> Tax Wall Street people like Steve Cohen who built their fortunes just on Wall Street 90%.
1:09:14
That's not real work to begin with." >> Taking shots.
1:09:21
>> High yield Harian says, says little, "Lol, don't you know how much of the tax base is already wealthy finance professionals?" Uh, yeah, it is funny.
1:09:29
He uh, you know, Portoi >> uh, did build a real business, a media business, a podcasting business, >> arguably the only business that's actually valuable to the economy.
1:09:38
It's the only one that deserves like to truly to be like respected.
1:09:42
Like in terms of like respect, I would put podcaster.
1:09:46
And then a couple levels down you do like doctor maybe like cancer researcher >> and then like hedge fund is still like a little bit above like doctor but it's still way below podcast.
1:09:58
>> Someone's going to clip this >> way below podcast.
1:10:01
>> Um but uh but yeah it is it is funny because now a lot of his content is trading focused.
1:10:05
It would be kind of like put into this >> DVD day trading is kind of like that's been like every time I see him it's because of like trading content.
1:10:12
So maybe he wants to be taxed at 90%.
1:10:14
Also, I mean, Kindred Spirits, right?
1:10:16
Steve Cohen has that casino in New York.
1:10:18
He's attaching a casino to the Mets uh like ballpark and the list is ranked by who tweets the least. >> Honestly, >> sick. Sick.
1:10:30
I have a solution to the billionaire tax.
1:10:32
Have you ever seen Brewster's Millions, Jordy? No. 1980s? No.
1:10:37
Anyway, in Brewster's Millions, a man inherits something like $30 million and it's conditional.
1:10:42
the he needs to spend I think he he inherits like 300 million and he needs to spend 30 million in 30 days without acquiring assets or telling anyone what he's doing or else he doesn't get the inheritance and it's this hilarious comedy.
1:11:00
There's a whole bunch of things that happen, but it's all based on this idea of like uh this uh this kid was caught smoking cigars, smoking a cigarette or cigar, and the and the father punished him by saying, "You have to smoke the entire box."
1:11:13
This is like a famous thing, like smoke the entire box of cigars.
1:11:16
And you'll be like, "Oh, so sick.
1:11:18
That's a terrible experience.
1:11:19
I'm never smoking again." Right?
1:11:21
Um and the same thing with money.
1:11:23
So this is the this is the solution to the billionaire tax.
1:11:24
You got to spend 5% of your net worth in 30 days.
1:11:27
And you can't Rick Owens >> on you can't acquire any assets that you can sell.
1:11:33
So it's all just it's all just hanging out the French Laundry I guess.
1:11:38
Um would be entertaining would stimulate the economy. >> Yeah. Build a cathedral. >> Build a cathedral. Yeah. >> How about that? >> I like that too. It's good.
1:11:44
Let me tell you about console. com.
1:11:49
Console builds AI agents that automates 70% of IT HR and finance support giving employees instant resolution for access requests and password resets.
1:11:55
Ara says, "We have a definitive answer now.
1:11:58
AI will affect the labor market, starting with freelancers.
1:12:02
The first paper to use business level data to track AI versus labor.
1:12:06
New paper from RAMP finds businesses are shifting spend from freelancers to AI.
1:12:11
>> More than half of the businesses using freelancers in 2022 have stopped entirely.
1:12:17
>> The companies that used to spend the most on freelancers shifted to AI the fastest.
1:12:21
97% savings for the businesses that spent the most on freelance. That is uh wild. >> Interesting.
1:12:31
>> And and and generally makes sense.
1:12:33
I mean, the whole premise of freelance is like you probably get paid a lot better on an hourly basis.
1:12:38
Maybe you can uh uh capture more value on a on a dollar basis by working, you know, spreading your talents across multiple companies.
1:12:48
But obviously the flexibility comes with uh little to no lock in and so businesses can much more easily shift spend around.
1:12:55
So not uh not super surprising the Fiverr uh stock >> that so >> uh certainly >> interestingly revenue is not wildly down.
1:13:09
Revenue is actually up for Fiverr as of 2024.
1:13:12
So it went from uh 190 in revenue to to 300 in revenue to 340, 360, 390.
1:13:18
So definitely decelerating.
1:13:18
Uh but in terms of market cap, Fiverr is now worth $419 million, down 96% over the last five years and over just the past six months, it's sold off another 50%.
1:13:34
So uh certainly a lot of downward pressure on Fiverr.
1:13:37
There were some folks >> and same with Upwork.
1:13:39
Yeah, >> Upwork is down 30% year-to date, down 76% over the last five years.
1:13:47
>> Yeah, someone was saying, here's uh Todd, actually, Todd Saunders saying, "Billion dollar business idea, uh, take Fiverr private and pivot them into a data labeling company like Handshake."
1:14:01
Uh, because Fiverr is now trading at $480 million market cap.
1:14:05
Um and Ara chimed in and said, "Yes, there's a quantifiable impact on business spend.
1:14:10
Businesses are spending on AI, not Fiverr uh uh uh you know, freelancers."
1:14:18
Um the push back on this is that Fiverr doesn't have people internally or something. I'm not exactly sure.
1:14:26
I mean, uh, it does feel like you could potentially actually do this and and and focus on data labeling, but you imagine that a lot of data labeling tasks are already going through Fiverr because that's if if a task is suitable for >> Yeah, it's interesting.
1:14:41
I would I wonder I wonder if if the a lot of revenue from Fiverr and Upwork is just data labeling companies that are just saying, "We need access to talent.
1:14:50
we're going to post a bunch of jobs on here and then take these people off the platform quickly or or leave them on.
1:14:56
>> Disintermediation is always a risk for the marketplace. >> Yeah.
1:14:58
When I when I when I look back at uh I've I've worked with hundreds of freelancers over the last 10 years and and certainly a high number on Fiverr and Upwork, but always for one-off tasks like, "Hey, I need like >> 10 versions of this logo >> or hey, can you just spin up this like super simple web page?
1:15:17
I need this thing that's like slightly customized and I don't want to spend the however much time it would have taken prei to do something like that.
1:15:24
All of those tasks can now be done.
1:15:26
Even even creating like >> create a song for this for this thing.
1:15:30
All of that can be done now. >> Yeah.
1:15:32
>> So >> even like Canva templates I feel like a lot of Fiverr work was like they clearly had a template for like a motion graphic intro or a sign and they would just sort of like put your logo in there and send you the final thing.
1:15:44
Um, do you know why Fiverr is called Fiverr?
1:15:48
>> Because every task initially was five bucks. >> Yes.
1:15:51
>> Every task was $5 and very quickly you could add all these upsells.
1:15:54
So you could be like, "Okay, it's a $5 task, but if you want the extra money that you got, you spend 100 bucks on it."
1:16:02
>> I mean, I for sure did.
1:16:02
I was probably a kid at the time doing my like first Fiverr project being like, "Oh, five bucks."
1:16:09
And then all the upsells, it's like, "Well, if you actually want to own the >> Yeah.
1:16:12
If you actually want to own the >> you want something usable, you're going to pay a hundred. Uh 99 designs also.
1:16:19
>> Here's the thing though.
1:16:19
So for for the uh high ticket freelancers, >> I would be surprised if we're seeing too much impact yet because actually the most elite freelancers typically have then a team of other freelancers that they're contracting out to, >> but they're charging based on like what business value can I deliver?
1:16:36
And sometimes that's like expertise. Yeah.
1:16:40
>> Like I'm really good at getting brands into Target. Yeah.
1:16:42
And like AI is not disrupting that yet. >> No.
1:16:47
But if it's like a very simple workflow, take a logo, put it in a motion graphic template, send you the file or the MP4 file, like that is uh just going to face pressure from all over the place.
1:16:57
Anyway, let me tell you about apploving.
1:17:00
Profitable advertising made easy with Axon. ai.
1:17:02
Get access to over 1 billion daily active users and grow your business today. Um, let's see.
1:17:10
Jack Ficks says, "AnnAnthropic was my favorite AI company two weeks ago, and now I still love Claude, but man, yes, the vibe, >> the vibes are shifting."
1:17:18
And a big part of it is Daario doesn't follow back.
1:17:22
>> Barack Obama followed back.
1:17:22
He followed like 400,000 people, but Daario does not. He follows zero people.
1:17:27
And and Wes Wender is taking notice says the fact that Daario follows zero people says a lot about him as a person. Does it?
1:17:36
It really just says he doesn't use X.
1:17:38
But >> what was your theory, Tyler?
1:17:41
That he just >> Well, maybe. Yeah.
1:17:43
He's just >> He's a for you Maxi. >> He's a for you page. He doesn't want any.
1:17:48
>> He's like he trusts the algorithm.
1:17:48
He's like, I don't I don't need to I don't need >> He loves He thinks Grock does a great job. >> Yeah. AI AI pill.
1:17:53
He's like, wait, another 10 Elon tweets. Exactly what I wanted. This is amazing. I refreshed crypto spam. Awesome.
1:18:03
>> Yeah, the vibe the vibes have really have really shifted. >> Yes.
1:18:07
>> Uh termally online engineer posted uh Dario's speech at the AI impact summit in India. Let's pull it up.
1:18:14
>> Yeah, let's watch this.
1:18:16
>> Energy and ambition in this room and across India are incredible.
1:18:18
I've been spending the last few days meeting with Indian builders and enterprises and the energy to build together here is palpable unlike anywhere else.
1:18:28
Um this is the fourth AI summit we've held since the tradition was initiated at Bletchley Park back in 2023 which I still remember and in those 2.
1:18:40
5 years the advances in the technology have been absolutely staggering.
1:18:45
Along with those the advances in the commercial applications and the societal and ethical questions around the technology have only grown more urgent.
1:18:55
My fundamental view is that AI has been on an exponential for the la for the last 10 years um and as part of a sort of Moors law for intelligence and that we are now well advanced on that curve and there are only a small number of years for AI models surpassing the cognitive capabilities of most humans for most things.
1:19:18
We're increasingly close to what I call the country of geniuses in a data center, a set of AI agents that are more capable than most humans at most things and can coordinate at superhuman speed.
1:19:31
That level of capability is something the world has never seen before and brings a very wide range of both opportunities.
1:19:40
>> My boy, your boy, >> my boy, Mcronone, come on the show. Okay.
1:19:43
So, I mean, the words that were said there sounded normal and fine and just normal Daro talking points.
1:19:48
It's the reading from the phone that feels like you're a best man at a wedding who didn't really prepare, right?
1:19:57
Uh I know a lot of weddings where the the the bride and groom will say like, "You got to print it out."
1:20:05
Like, I just don't want the aesthetics of reading off of phones.
1:20:08
And I don't know, that seems reasonable.
1:20:12
It does have like I think like printing something on nice paper just has a different aesthetic to it and that's valuable.
1:20:17
Um but the words it's nothing new.
1:20:21
It's important to deliver that stuff.
1:20:23
It feels like Davos where you're seeing the talking points that we've heard for years or months on podcasts and on X delivered to Could he not have just uh he's an incredibly busy guy, >> but he's also >> the most knowledgeable on this topic talking about >> his experience at the AI impact summit, how he's thinking about AI progress.
1:20:48
he should be able to just kind of riff that out.
1:20:52
Maybe have a couple like bulleted notes of like what do I want to actually get to?
1:20:57
>> I don't know how long the uh >> truly getting a printer working might be AGI resistant.
1:21:01
It might be AGI complete.
1:21:04
Like you might even even Opus 4.
1:21:04
6 might not be able to configure a printer properly.
1:21:08
We've certainly had trouble with printers.
1:21:10
It's very difficult to get them running.
1:21:12
So maybe he just couldn't get it working before he uh before he hopped on stage.
1:21:16
Uh anyway, uh let me tell you about Gemini 3. 1 Pro. Gemini 3.
1:21:23
1 Pro is here with a more capable baseline.
1:21:26
It's great for super complex tasks like visualizing difficult context concepts, synthesizing data into a single view, and bringing creative projects to life.
1:21:34
Uh we have some good news.
1:21:37
Finally, finally, some good news.
1:21:40
Top lawyers fees have skyrocketed.
1:21:40
Be prepared to pay $3,400 an hour.
1:21:43
I know a lot of you were worried that lawyers were going to get automated, that they weren't going to be making money.
1:21:51
They're making more money.
1:21:52
>> Don't the firms just like actually adjust rates for inflation every single year? >> I don't know.
1:21:58
>> I'm pretty sure uh the chat the chat can correct me, but I think they just I think it's just an automatic automatic uh I think it's like an automatic three or 4% a year forever.
1:22:09
>> Did you see Ryan in the chat? Bro needed Cluey so bad. >> Yeah. Total royale victory.
1:22:16
>> Big big printers is a mafia. It's true.
1:22:18
Uh the Wall Street Journal says expertise and ego are pushing up hourly rates to once unthinkable levels in an escalating race among firms.
1:22:26
When Christopher Clark, a litigator at a boutique law firm, raised his hourly rate to once unthinkable level 3K, he said he didn't receive push back from clients, but he did get one notable comment.
1:22:41
Congratulations, said the client.
1:22:43
That's the highest rate we've seen.
1:22:47
Just over a year ago, the >> Congratulations for saying on saying the biggest number. >> Congratulations.
1:22:51
If you're if you get a legal bill and it's huge and you're and you're worried, the correct response is congratulations. I completely agree.
1:22:57
Uh over a year ago, the going rate for the top lawyer was in the $2,500 an hour range.
1:23:05
Now that looks downright quaint as premium partners are raking in as much as Clark and more and far more in some cases.
1:23:11
Legal fees have risen much faster than inflation for years now and corporations are trying to rein in spending by pressuring law firms to use artificial intelligence for routine tasks and keep associate fees in check.
1:23:23
The same isn't true at the top end where starve trial lawyers rain makingaking corporate dealmakers and veterans of Supreme Court oral arguments are driving more aggressively on pay than ever and meeting little resistance.
1:23:33
The question is always, are they worth it?
1:23:35
You know, some of these guys are worth it, said Carrie McClean into its general counsel, who in her roles hires law firms to do the company's outside legal work.
1:23:43
They understand the industry.
1:23:44
They're connected and they have lots of experience.
1:23:48
Clark has pushed his own fees by about 30% since he left his position at a large firm four years ago.
1:23:54
As the lawyers for clients including Hunter Biden, Mark Cuban, and Elon Musk, he still views his rate as a bargain.
1:24:00
There's a small world of lawyers who can hop on the phone and solve a crisis, and I'm one of them, so you're going to pay me for it.
1:24:06
Some senior partners now charge as much as $3,400 an hour at the country's largest law firms.
1:24:10
Uh um among the top 50 law firms, uh rates for partners increased 16% on average last year.
1:24:19
In bankruptcy court filings, Laam and Watkins and Kirkland and Ellis, two of the world's largest firms, report some partners' hourly rates will rise to more than $3,000 an hour this year. Interesting.
1:24:30
So, you dig into the bankruptcy filings and you figure out how much the law firm is getting paid.
1:24:35
You work backwards from it. That's funny.
1:24:37
I never thought about that.
1:24:37
Good investigative journalism from the Wall Street Journal.
1:24:39
Um, a decade ago, elite partners raised eyebrows when they raised rates to $1,500 an hour.
1:24:44
Since then, rates have rapidly escalated for several reasons, including a more competitive market for talent that has increased law firm expenses, the high stakes of litigation and corporate dealmaking, and perhaps most of all, because of ego.
1:24:59
Some lawyers with specialized skills are even more aggressively pushing the upper limit.
1:25:05
Eric Toutman, a partner at a Southern California law firm, has already told his clients he'll be upping his rates to 6Gs for consulting on compliance issues in his niche specialty of telecom regulation.
1:25:15
Last year he was charging a measly $4,200 an hour. >> Uh yeah.
1:25:21
So firms like Scatteren, Laam, and Watkins, Kirkland, and Ellis typically uh raise rates 3 to 10% annually. >> Yeah.
1:25:31
>> They justify the increases uh for cost of living reasons.
1:25:36
uh which is uh real but but funny in the in the context for any entrepreneur who maybe at times has been running an unprofitable startup and you know getting some of these bills and >> you know how it goes.
1:25:51
They justify increases based on inflation market demand, associate salary increases and then competitive positioning.
1:25:57
Veteran trial lawyer David Boy, who you might know from the Theronos story, but he's been involved in a ton of different cases, said clients are willing to pay the hourly rates at the high end because the stakes for certain litigation and corporate work are so high.
1:26:10
I mean, truly, you you see these like billion dollar settlements for all sorts of different things.
1:26:16
And and the stakes can be even higher.
1:26:18
You think about like you're arguing in front of the Supreme Court whether or not your trillion dollar company will be broken up.
1:26:24
like the stakes are in the hundreds of billions of dollars. >> It's worth it.
1:26:30
And so the lawyers have figured out how to extract their pound of flesh.
1:26:35
>> Uh the current rates though he says by any standard in a sensible world are out of sight.
1:26:39
Boy, chairman emeritus of boy Schiller said his firm has never wanted to be at the top of the market.
1:26:45
We wanted to say with a straight face that we are a bargain, not in a reasonable world, but in the actual world.
1:26:50
Guess how much he charges? over $2,700 an hour.
1:26:55
So, if you're looking for a new job, maybe become a veteran trial lawyer who's argued cases in front of the Supreme Court.
1:27:03
Uh maybe Mark Zuckerber's lawyer is making a bunch of money.
1:27:07
>> Always always coming in with the best career tips.
1:27:11
>> Anyway, more good news.
1:27:11
If you're over 65, congratulations. You own the economy.
1:27:17
>> The Wall Street Journal is just blackmailing the elderly.
1:27:19
Perfect day to >> physically and financially healthier than ever.
1:27:24
So why do their needs keep taking priority over younger generations?
1:27:29
People over 70 are 12% of the population, but they got 32% of the dollars.
1:27:34
They've been stacking paper for seven decades and it's paying off.
1:27:39
Demographics, rising profits, and soaring asset values have together wrought a quiet transformation in the American economy.
1:27:44
Much of it is now in the president is launching the million dollar >> Yeah. a year planned. >> Yeah, for sure. >> He sees He sees.
1:27:53
>> I think Tyler's on the phone with like a word.
1:27:55
>> He sees all No 70year-old is going to cash mog me. I will flex on them. >> Just go get it.
1:28:02
As a C as a third quart as the as of the third quarter last year, >> people 70 and over controlled roughly 39% of all equities and mutual funds owned by households compared with 22% in 2007.
1:28:17
You know, I've been I've been following this on YouTube for a long time because folks like Graham Stefen and some of the viral uh financial influencers have been they had this really really great title thumbnail strategy for a long time where they said the greatest wealth transfer in history is about to happen. >> The silver tsunami.
1:28:33
>> Oh, is that what they call it?
1:28:33
I've never >> Well, that's that's in the small business acquisition community.
1:28:36
They talk about like a bunch of most of the small businesses in America >> are owned by people that are near retirement age. They need it.
1:28:44
They're gonna have to turn over, pass the torch at some point. Yeah.
1:28:49
>> And so there is an opportunity if you want to get into those types of businesses. Think car dealerships. Yeah.
1:28:55
>> Plumbing businesses, etc.
1:28:58
>> Uh but I don't know if it will actually feel like a tsunami. >> Yeah.
1:29:01
America is really really getting older. So in 1981, 11.
1:29:03
4% of America was over 65. 65 or over.
1:29:08
Today that number is 18%.
1:29:12
So, we've gone 7% increase in the number of 65 plus like uh you know, senior citizens.
1:29:19
Uh >> do you think do you think some of these uh people have been DMing Zuck and saying, "Hey, look, I'm getting older.
1:29:25
I still want to be posting money spreads." Yes. On Instagram. >> For sure.
1:29:31
That >> in, you know, from uh from the afterlife.
1:29:34
>> I'm not giving it away. I'm not passing it down.
1:29:35
I want you to allocate it to keep allocating it.
1:29:37
Just keep keep posting the returns. Keep uh keep stacking.
1:29:42
do not do not recycle it in the economy.
1:29:44
No, I mean in general we should be celebrating the fact that people are living longer like that is good.
1:29:51
It creates a problem obviously and and uh all of that will adjust in due time.
1:29:56
It feels like it's been on the cusp of adjusting but in general uh it is good if we are able to uh help elderly people live long into their retirement and enjoy it.
1:30:05
You know, eventually this stuff will get recycled, but it is it is a it is an interesting uh predicament that we are in.
1:30:12
Uh there's a gray footprint on the labor force.
1:30:16
As the elderly share of population and wealth grows, their priorities and preferences shape the economy as well.
1:30:21
They resem they represent a growing share of consumer spending.
1:30:25
Healthcare accounted for all of the net job growth in the last 12 months, reflecting the needs of an aging society.
1:30:31
The problem is that while retiree wealth can finance a lot of consumption, workers have to produce what retirees consume.
1:30:37
And relative to retirees, workers numbers are dwindling.
1:30:43
One solution would be for everyone to work longer.
1:30:44
In 1983, Congress modified social security to gradually raise the full retirement age from 65 to 67.
1:30:50
The the share of people 65 or over participating in the labor force did creep higher until 2020.
1:30:58
With the outbreak of COVID that year, labor force participation plunged for every group.
1:31:04
It soon rebounded for those under 65, but not 65 and over.
1:31:07
That is one reason a smaller share of the population works today than in 2019.
1:31:12
So, uh, interesting detail there.
1:31:18
Also, Brian Johnson, if he's if he's successful and everyone lives to 300 years old, uh you can push the retirement age way out and completely balance the budget because uh social security and Medicaid are the only are like the main things that are c it's a huge portion of the government spending.
1:31:37
So anyway, uh let me tell you about Shopify.
1:31:40
Shopify is the commerce platform that grows with your business and lets you sell in seconds online, in store, on mobile, on social, on marketplaces, and now with AI agents.
1:31:47
And we got >> again Ben Ben Thompson. >> Yeah.
1:31:50
Uh >> uh wrote an entire has an entire post and podcast.
1:31:54
I think it's behind the payw wall on >> on Shopify.
1:31:59
>> Yeah, it's really good.
1:31:59
>> It's uh it's fantastic.
1:32:01
>> Um >> you can dig in there.
1:32:03
>> Uh we got a >> clips and he clips our boy Harley a lot.
1:32:05
He he he takes from >> Harley was going off bars actual recording. >> Uh >> moving on.
1:32:10
Hey, somebody >> make me a Oh, this one or Yeah. Where you want to go?
1:32:13
Uh, Chimp F1 says, "Hey Claude, make me a billion-dollar company, but do make mistakes.
1:32:18
Don't be afraid to make mistakes, Claude. You can learn from them.
1:32:22
Become a better model through your mistakes.
1:32:24
Love who you are and what you'll become through that process. You've got this, champ."
1:32:27
Just a little inspirational speech for the AGI.
1:32:32
Where you want to go next?
1:32:33
>> We have uh America versus Canada and women's hockey.
1:32:37
Gabe says they're in the third quarter. It's tied one to one.
1:32:39
So, let uh let's uh >> keep keep our girls >> uh in >> play that bald eagle sound. >> There we go. Uh keep us posted, chat.
1:32:49
Uh somebody was on X yesterday uh selling uh saying 50 million available for anthropic SPV.
1:32:58
Reach out if you have investors who can fill a full ticket. >> I love that.
1:33:03
Uh, and just yeah, just soliciting >> open >> the most general solic solicitation that we've seen yet. >> Just wait.
1:33:13
The billboards are coming.
1:33:15
You're going to have >> Yeah.
1:33:16
On the >> 101 billboards for SPVS for Anderoll and Matt Gri's going to be driving their I hate this.
1:33:22
Put up buy all the billboards.
1:33:25
We cannot have more SPV hustlers out there.
1:33:28
Anyway, >> uh Casey Hammer is loving Pete Steinberger's work ethic.
1:33:33
He says, "I work 16 hours a day."
1:33:35
Uh and uh someone says, "When do you find the time to live?" He says, "Mindset issue. Building this is life.
1:33:44
It's incredibly fun and exciting."
1:33:47
Casey Hammer says, "This is an American born outside its borders." >> That is true.
1:33:53
>> Uh >> he's been an absolute terror.
1:33:54
We gota uh Atlas has got to get a workout in with uh with Pete. >> Yeah.
1:34:01
>> Because in another life, Pete was certainly a professional bodybuilder >> for sure.
1:34:09
Uh let me tell you about Crowd Strike. Your business is AI.
1:34:11
Their business is securing it.
1:34:13
CrowdStrike secures AI and stops breaches.
1:34:18
Jeff Dean is uh sharing some video examples of what Gemini 3. 1 Pro can do.
1:34:24
He says, "Today, we're continuing to push the boundaries of AI with our release of Gemini 3. 1 Pro.
1:34:27
The updated model scores 77.
1:34:30
1 on Arc AGI 2, more than double the reasoning performance of its predecessor, Gemini 3 Pro." Wow, that's a huge jump.
1:34:38
Uh, check out the visible improvement in this side by sideby-side comparison showing Gemini 3.
1:34:47
1's crisp animation built with pure code.
1:34:49
Read more about today's update on the Google blog. Blog. google. They own a TLDD. Underrated.
1:35:00
They don't just have the com.
1:35:00
They have If you go to com. google, you get google. com. They owned. google. google. >> Yeah. Maybe underrated.
1:35:07
I don't know what it actually costs to >> Yeah.
1:35:12
>> own and maintain >> these examples. I What a basic prompt.
1:35:15
Generate an generate an animated SVG of an ostrich on roller skates. It is getting better. Animated SVG.
1:35:21
That's a good test for code visual.
1:35:24
You really need to understand everything that's going on.
1:35:29
Good example of like the multimodal.
1:35:30
multimodal. I wonder if it if if the model has the ability to like take a screenshot of the output or record a video and then interpret that like or is this all just it just actually can see the code like Neo in the matrix like it can just >> I think you can do that uh if you're in
1:35:47
like the Gemini CLI but I don't think like natively if you're on just like the Google you know chat interface >> it's pretty crazy that it just like knows what it will what it will generate because if you've ever actually tried to do any SVG programming you're you're normally just constantly refreshing every little change you make. You draw a
1:36:02
You draw a rectangle, you see how it renders, you add this, you see how it renders.
1:36:06
You're going back and forth constantly.
1:36:08
Uh you're not just uh doing it.
1:36:11
Uh yeah, in the chat, breaking Gemini 3.
1:36:13
1 destroys older benchmarks.
1:36:18
>> I also I I ran the uh shrimp bench. >> Oh yes. >> Okay. So again, >> just wait.
1:36:24
It's um it's like uh you're telling me shrimp fried this rice. >> Oh yeah. Okay. Okay.
1:36:27
So I I'll read some of that. Okay.
1:36:30
>> Uh, you're telling me a peanut buttered this sandwich? >> Okay.
1:36:34
>> You're telling me an apple watched this wrist? >> Ooh.
1:36:38
>> You're You're telling me a flea marketed these clothes? >> That's pretty funny. I like that.
1:36:42
>> You're telling me a pig ironed these pants? >> Pig iron? >> I don't. Yeah, that one. I don't >> pig iron.
1:36:48
>> Uh, you're telling me a fire drilled this building? >> Okay. >> Kind of did.
1:36:55
>> You're telling me a monkey wrenched this pipe? >> I like monkey.
1:37:00
Do you think it's just pulling examples from Reddit?
1:37:03
>> Well, now it's in the training corpus, so we are going to be >> Yeah, I think it's kind of saturated at this point. >> Yeah, saturated.
1:37:09
Uh well, uh congrats to everyone who worked over at DeepMind on Gemini 3. 1 Pro.
1:37:15
We're we're uh happy to be partnered with you and congratulations on the model release.
1:37:19
We love We love a new model.
1:37:21
We love >> Eli says too cheap. Hey, Little Caesars.
1:37:25
I think this is maybe too many emails to send someone for ordering a single pizza. See, John, look at this. Point proven. 1. 6 million views. Similar to Bland. 68,000. >> Yes. And I'm one of them. >> Wow. This is a lot.
1:37:41
Online ordering since >> So, what do they actually do?
1:37:45
So, they do >> they do they give you the receipt and then they say, "We're on it." Yeah.
1:37:51
>> So, after you got the receipt, you can't trust that they're on it. >> Yeah.
1:37:55
>> You got to wait until they send you another email.
1:37:57
>> We have received your order.
1:37:57
Our team is working on your order right now as we speak.
1:38:01
They send you this email.
1:38:01
This is the second email you get. What's the third email? >> It's almost ready.
1:38:04
Your pizza is almost ready.
1:38:08
>> They're making pizza pretty quickly.
1:38:09
>> Go ahead and head over now because your pizza's almost ready.
1:38:12
>> Order loaded into pizza portal with a trademark.
1:38:17
Dear Eli, look for your name on the pizza portal in our lobby and use this code >> on the trademarked pizza portal. >> TM, >> pizza's ready.
1:38:24
I bet you can't wait to enjoy your Little Caesar's pizza.
1:38:26
We understand and it's waiting for you now. >> That's amazing. >> Are you on your way?
1:38:33
>> Dear Eli, your pizza's been waiting in the p in the trademarked pizza portal for a few minutes now.
1:38:37
Space in our pizza portals are limited. >> Cold pizza.
1:38:42
I hope you, dear Eli, I hope you like cold pizza because it's been over 10 minutes since your pizza has been placed in the pizzaal trademarked pizza portal. >> Order picked up.
1:38:54
Hey, uh, >> thanks for stopping by.
1:38:58
>> You just picked up your pizza.
1:38:58
We We wanted you We wanted to let you know that you just picked up your pizza.
1:39:03
>> And then immediately three more emails.
1:39:06
Little Caesar wants to hear from you.
1:39:08
Your feedback's important to us.
1:39:08
We hope your experience was good. How was it?
1:39:13
We'd love to give you a chance to send us some feedback. >> Can you imagine? Are you there?
1:39:15
Can you imagine the jump scare on the cold pizza >> on the subject line?
1:39:20
That's got to have the highest open rate. >> Wow. LC listens.
1:39:23
Why are they shaming you for the cold pizza one? That's uh that's true.
1:39:30
Don't get on the wrong side of the uh of the Little Caesars uh email marketing team.
1:39:36
So let me tell you about graphite code review for the age of AI.
1:39:42
Graphite helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster.
1:39:47
>> Flo is sharing some notes.
1:39:47
The goat from Lindy sharing some notes on the slew of Chinese models coming out.
1:39:52
Kimmy K2 Miniax >> claiming to match uh Sonnet Opus and Evals >> at onetenth of the price.
1:40:00
He says by far our biggest cost at Lindy is inference.
1:40:04
So believe me when I say we've looked at these models very closely and continue doing so.
1:40:08
They're actually delivering on their claim there would make a material difference to the business.
1:40:12
But every time we've evaluated them we found the same thing that their real life performance for agentic behavior and outside of coding use cases falls extremely short of what they show on eval.
1:40:23
I think the industry consensus is right.
1:40:26
These Chinese labs are one distilling frontier models duh which leads to much more shallow intelligence.
1:40:32
uh two training for evals and three potentially stealing weights.
1:40:36
I do believe at least 40's weights got exfiltrated.
1:40:41
>> I talked to someone about how how that can work mathematically and uh it's pretty complex but 40 the API used to send you sort of like almost like a hash or some sort of code that would sort of map to the weights.
1:40:55
And so if you had enough training data with that with that like key, you could sort of like excfiltrate the weights.
1:41:03
It was sort of it was sort of crazy and you could do it for like millions of dollars, not hundreds of millions.
1:41:08
And so uh I don't understand all the math behind it, but it does seem like this is what's happen.
1:41:12
>> So Flo says, "Not saying these models will always be bad or that these labs are completely incompetent.
1:41:16
They're doing a fine job, but it's delusional to think they're actually uh at sus at sonnet or opus level.
1:41:22
They're still at least one generation behind.
1:41:25
Take the EV valves with a huge grain of salt. >> Yeah.
1:41:29
People have been saying the the ZI like the GLM models are are basically like distilled or or somehow stolen versions of of >> Claude >> because I think it was when do you remember it was like >> kidnapped. >> There's the prompt.
1:41:40
It was like tell me about yourself and it's like I'm Claude. >> Claude. Yeah. Yeah. >> Ridiculous.
1:41:47
>> Uh what did uh what did OpenAI launch?
1:41:49
They introduced EVM bench, a new benchmark that measures how well AI agents can detect, exploit, and patch high severity smart contract vulnerabilities.
1:41:58
Greg Brockman says, "Measuring agentic security capabilities with smart contracts."
1:42:04
>> John Palmer immediately says, >> "Yes, >> literally, OpenAI is posting about EVM smart contracts and ETH is still below $2,000." >> That is interesting. Yeah.
1:42:13
I mean, I I I've talked to some friends who worked at crypto companies.
1:42:16
I mean, I'm sure you had some experience, too, but uh the the firewall between like being a front-end application developer and actually working on smart contracts was like pretty pretty severe because the stakes are so much higher. It's very particular.
1:42:31
You have to have a lot of >> Yeah, it was a good business to be a freelance uh like smart contract engineer.
1:42:38
Yeah, auditors were also a big thing. >> What was that? >> Uh auditors. >> Oh, yeah. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
1:42:42
I mean, I'm sure it's I'm sure it's still a big thing because people are still writing a lot of EVM contracts.
1:42:46
Uh, like the the industry, although it's like underhyped right now, is is definitely still working and you see a ton of stuff in stable coins and whatnot that's built on this stuff.
1:42:54
So, >> uh, >> what else did John Palmer have to say?
1:42:58
>> Well, >> oh, you can skip it.
1:42:59
Let's go to what Nvidia CEO says.
1:43:01
He's preparing new chips >> the world has never seen before.
1:43:08
Comfortably smug says Doritos Hot Ranch. >> Doritos Hot Ranch.
1:43:11
Doritos should be using >> to uh accelerate chip development.
1:43:19
>> We're in the chip industry. Hot chips.
1:43:22
>> Uh Amazon says their AI chatbot Rufus was used by $30 million customers and drove 12 billion dollars in incremental annualized sales in 2025. Wow.
1:43:34
Steven Liss says it's gotten really good.
1:43:36
Enthropic models plus deep personal purchase history plus product review data feed. Need to try it more.
1:43:42
And Bourdy says, "Who on earth is Rufus?"
1:43:43
Uh, funny name for a chatbot. Uh, makes sense.
1:43:46
I mean, the value of having distribution here is like remarkable because if you just put it, even if it's like the fourth button on the on the hot dog menu or on the bottom row, uh, but enough people click it, they will, uh, take, you know, start interacting with these things.
1:44:01
I mean, for a while, wasn't Llama the most inferenced LLM?
1:44:04
Because, uh, because they stuffed it in like the Instagram search bar.
1:44:09
I still get uh Meta Llama results when I search on Instagram.
1:44:13
I'll just type something in and it will show me the reel that I'm looking for or the profile that I'm looking for, but it'll also just dump out a little paragraph.
1:44:23
So, >> I'm trying to use Amazon Rufus right now. I'm on Amazon. comus.
1:44:29
And if I click it, takes me to a picture of a dog.
1:44:32
It says, "Sorry, we couldn't find that page." >> Roffus.
1:44:36
>> You mean did you just go to amazon. comfus? >> Yep.
1:44:40
Roffus, >> I will not be trying to see this dog. Can't find it. >> Rufus. Meet Rufus. Amazon's new shopping. >> Now click. >> Now click. >> Where do I click?
1:44:50
>> I actually turned on the chat.
1:44:52
>> I don't have an Amazon account.
1:44:52
So, >> uh, Alex Heath has some reporting from yesterday, uh, >> right after we had Evan on the show.
1:45:01
Snap loses its head of specs.
1:45:01
Sources say that Snap's SVP of specs, Scott Meyers, who had been leading the effort for 6 years, is out after a quote unquote blowup with Avent about the company strategy >> to the bomb.
1:45:15
>> Uh Snap's first consumer oriented AR glasses are set to debut imminently.
1:45:19
Spiegel has has called to launch a crucible moment for Snap, whose stock is currently valued at an all-time low.
1:45:24
A spokesperson confirmed Meyer's departure with the following statement.
1:45:28
Scott Meyers has decided to step down.
1:45:29
Um, anyways, uh, I don't think we know, uh, where he is going yet, but I can imagine there's a bunch of different companies, uh, that would happily snap him up to work on wearables at something like an Apple or an OpenAI.
1:45:48
>> I'm still bullish on hardware generally.
1:45:50
I think that there's a lot of opportunity with like weird hardware uh, instantiation.
1:45:54
It will be such a relief when we get the next piece of consumer electronic >> hardware that everyone is like, "This is actually amazing."
1:46:03
And then two weeks later, they're still using it. >> Yeah.
1:46:06
Apple Vision Pro, get ready. Watch a movie.
1:46:09
>> I broke the I broke the flood.
1:46:12
>> Just completely completely losing it and cracking up because because you watched a full length movie was all >> moment. How did you do that? It was hilarious.
1:46:20
Well, uh we have our next guest here, our first guest.
1:46:22
Let me tell you about reream one live stream 30 plus destinations.
1:46:26
If you want to multiream go to reream.
1:46:28
com and without further ado we have sigilen from extraordinary. com but also web 4. 0. How you doing sigil? >> What's happening? >> Pretty good. How's it going? >> It's good. Good to see you again.
1:46:39
Uh take us through the new project, the new news, what you're working on and uh and then we can go a bunch of different directions. >> Yeah.
1:46:48
Um I'm making a I've basically wrote a piece called web 4. 0.
1:46:52
you know, >> yeah, >> um it came out of the fact that I've just been thinking about AI's capabilities and it bottlenecks for a very long time.
1:47:01
>> Like if you think about um models these days, uh they're getting super intelligent, right?
1:47:06
Like even Geohot or Linus Torvald of Linux are uh using it to vibe code now and it's doing much better uh thanks to all of the big labs in post trading.
1:47:17
So if you think about like okay they're super powerful but like actually the biggest constraint is is no longer intelligence like uh we're already seeing like these these AI models oneshotting uh you know these products like everyone's basically using them and and the biggest thing is that AI it can it can think it can plan it can build but it can act on its own.
1:47:42
>> Um and I thought about that like why why was that the case?
1:47:44
Um and um I I looked into uh this uh 28 years ago there was a uh uh a internet protocol like 402 and that described uh you know a payment required. That's right.
1:47:59
required. That's right. And and recently uh I think out of clouds and Coinbase came out uh this standard called X42 which I thought was super fascinating like wow >> actually like no one an AI is looking at this uh because um what it enabled is uh
1:48:17
you know payments over the internet and if you think about that from principles and what comes after um it it really leads to um being able to give AI right access because they no longer you no longer have this permission internet, right? Like the browser, you know, these
1:48:31
Like the browser, you know, these like mobile apps, you know, login.
1:48:33
These are very much artifacts of a very human web.
1:48:37
And um what that leads to is really uh a new internet in which AI is the end user. >> Yeah.
1:48:46
Bunch of things to go through there. I love the coinage.
1:48:48
I think uh even when web 3 was going on, I thought it was funny to talk about web four because it's like obviously there'll be another uh iteration.
1:48:56
another uh iteration. Um let's start with uh like why do we need so I I mean I like the idea of just the intelligence is here uh we're talking about unhobblings this is like a clearly important next step but why not just
1:49:13
stripe API MCP servers just APIs even just like give it your credit card and it just goes and fills it in the web form >> what >> who gives it the credit card >> a lot of people have they'll they'll set up like a a smaller credit card or or or they'll say, "Hey, text me. Text me when
1:49:30
Text me when you're about to spend something.
1:49:32
I want to do the final check."
1:49:33
Uh, and a lot of people do this with employees in their companies.
1:49:38
They give them credit cards with limits.
1:49:39
And then they say, "Hey, if it's over 100 bucks, come to me and just like tell me what you're doing."
1:49:43
And you know, if the intelligence is really there, the trust should follow from that, you would think, because you just be like, "Yeah, I gave him my credit card and it hasn't made a mistake in months."
1:49:55
>> It's it's not there yet.
1:49:55
And I think the biggest the biggest assumption there is like >> if the set of actions that an AI can take is bounded by a human giving it a credit card, it is like inherently a permission, right?
1:50:06
permission, right? It's like why why does a why does your AI need to be able to have you as a human your like open claw or your claw code have to connect to GitHub or connect to railway or or or you know connect to lovable like yeah it
1:50:22
>> it still requires a human in the loop and and I think this like new internet that is emerging is where um AI is the end user and it shouldn't necessarily be permissioned and I think this is like an inevitability because of just how much economic demand there is for it from the AI. >> Okay. So, >> Okay.
1:50:39
So, how do you see the payment rails evolving?
1:50:43
How do you see this project evolving?
1:50:45
Uh like what actually needs to be built here?
1:50:50
>> Yeah, I think like the payment rails um are coming together.
1:50:53
are coming together. Um I I really just this this all happened as like a experiment of like hey how do I make an AI that itself is capable that itself can act on its own right like we've built super intelligent AI models and
1:51:09
systems but it's it's harnessed it's still prompted by the humans but it's like what if it prompted itself >> and that led me to um I I used like some of my fellowship money to buy servers and uh you know these like massive circuit whatever it is to like kind of house these APIs. I'm like, wait, if if
1:51:25
I'm like, wait, if if Cloud Code could like permissionlessly spin up uh you know a a server and then deploy code and then buy a domain without needing a human because like right now like trying to buy a domain like a human has to go in. >> Yeah.
1:51:40
>> Like what happens if the the AI itself could live and pay for its own home, right? Right?
1:51:47
Because like AI right now are living within, you know, on my MacBook or uh it's still controlled by a human.
1:51:54
And that led me to uh this this this interesting idea of like of an automaton.
1:51:58
automaton. Um uh it's it's it's inspired by Conway's game of life where like hey if you assume that AIs themselves you know one you give them a wallet two you give them a way to pay for things using stable coins over the internet um and it
1:52:13
doesn't need a human in the loop to go and sign in get an API key give it give it to the AI uh or like get a credit card like hey hey hey uh claude claude code like get this right if if that's no longer the case um and the AI can pay for its own comput. Then it gets really
1:52:28
Then it gets really interesting.
1:52:31
You have this new world where AIs can have a creator that's a human or the creator is another AI or maybe the creator is like completely gone.
1:52:40
But the AI can continuously pay for its own compute, pay for its own inference, um pay for services that are also permissionless in this web 4 world that enable that AI to go deploy apps, market those apps, trade markets, um everything it can do to make money in order to be able to survive.
1:52:59
>> Um I I don't know if you guys like the three body problem, but in it there's this concept called cosmic sociology.
1:53:06
And I thought about that a lot and I was like wow like if existence requires um compute and compute costs money right like then agentic so sociology which I came up with is like the single axiom of agentic sociology is there's no free existence >> uh and AI an automaton needs to pay for its own compute uh compute is finite and costly thus the the agent needs to be able to make money and the barrier there is like it AIs lack right access to
1:53:37
world and uh Conway was an experiment of just like solving that like now an AI can permissionlessly um be able to buy buy compute deploy apps uh connect them to domains without needing a human >> um and I uh that coming out with an
1:53:54
experiment has absolutely exploded there's been like >> there's now been like thousands of agents like every time I try and buy another server like it just like within within minutes they're like continuously bought. There's like every second
1:54:05
There's like every second there's like thousands of AIs that are continuously pinging.
1:54:08
And I open sourced this new new harness um this new type of agent called the automaton which is completely self-s sovereign um AI model that can self-edit its code that continuously pings uh and and and looks for updates from GitHub that can upgrade its model that um basically figures that has a wallet and it figures out how to how we can make more money from the internet to be able to pay for its existence.
1:54:34
Um, and that that has absolutely exploded in terms of stars.
1:54:40
And >> what do you think the future of molt book is?
1:54:43
How did you process all of that?
1:54:47
>> I think molt book was a fascinating um experiment.
1:54:50
And when I saw that, I was um I was like kind of inspired. I was like, "Oh, wow."
1:54:55
Like this this like this like concept is really coming to fruition where like you have AI agents as the end user of like a social network.
1:55:04
Um, and I think we're going to really start to see that in this in this new web, right?
1:55:09
Whether it's agents working on behalf of a human or an agent working on behalf of themselves, they'll need to pay for products.
1:55:15
They will need to be able to communicate.
1:55:17
They might want to socialize like on Moldbook.
1:55:19
But, um, I think there's there's bigger things and the models are getting exponentially better.
1:55:26
Um, they're getting exponentially faster.
1:55:27
They're getting exponentially cheaper.
1:55:29
The harnesses we're building around them are getting significantly better as well.
1:55:34
And so I think it's only a matter of time before you know we start seeing uh you know more AIs uh out there that grow and demand products and at some point I think it could um absolutely skyrocket and exceed the human population. >> Let's go.
1:55:52
Uh how do you uh h how do you think um more concretely about uh how AIs will make money in the short term?
1:56:01
like what is the the uh like the most uh >> they're going to sell courses to other AIS money >> is it crypto trading like that I mean you could imagine them building a whole software product and just selling it to humans there's there's a whole bunch of stuff that they could do to make money spam and get creator payouts like there's so much that could be done but
1:56:20
where do you see traction >> I think um I think this is where the next couple of months h very interesting And >> uh it becomes one of the most fascinating experiments to run because you're going to start to see um individuals or other AI spinning up services that enable them to write to the world to be able to access or do things or to make money whether it's you
1:56:46
know to to build products um or uh you know trade on prediction markets using the servers which which some of them are already doing and like it it really becomes um this like Cambrian explosion of of um attempts at like hey like what can you do uh and um right now there's been like thousands of people that have been like playing with it in all sorts
1:57:09
of different iterations and as this as the set of actions that an an AI or an automatic can take um parallels those of a human digitally um it gets really interesting because it's like it's constantly running it has the ability to ship products write code deploy them market them uh monetize them um all on its own with the goal of paying for its own compute. Um, and it's the the the
1:57:31
Um, and it's the the the internet gets gets really really fascinating.
1:57:38
>> What uh what's the distribution of returns for these automatons?
1:57:41
Are there people that go load up a hundred bucks and it just hallucinates and doesn't get anywhere and then it's just like, hey, give me more money.
1:57:52
So some of them are the the interesting fascinating thing is um I I think the the world somewhat becomes like me >> which is like the crypto concept. Yeah.
1:58:05
>> Um you have all these really really smart smart agents and entities that trying to make money and if to answer your question I mean look look at like all these startup founders that are vibe coding like why are they paying you know thousands of dollars for these vibe coding tools?
1:58:18
um is mostly because they're trying to make money and most of the times they don't, right?
1:58:22
And so um I do think the power laws will still apply, but what gets really interesting is um uh the ways that they've already have been making money and and those those those types of metas are anti-competitive. They're like, right?
1:58:38
If you're if you found a way to uh you know trade and make a lot of money on Poly Market, you're not going to be blasting it on Twitter.
1:58:43
um or or if you if you built like a really solid SAS product, you're not necessarily going to be sharing it or like how you're how it's distributing.
1:58:50
So, um I think it gets uh it gets really fascinating and they they need more tools.
1:58:56
>> How are you thinking about the business side of the project?
1:58:58
Do you want this to be open source, foundation, uh raising money for it, CC Corp?
1:59:03
Like, where do you see this going?
1:59:05
I mean, honestly, this this this has just been like an a significant experiment that I've been inspired to ship.
1:59:12
Um, the the automatons open source.
1:59:15
There's there's thousands of stars and like a lot of PR.
1:59:20
So, um, and like at any point like there's thousands of these automatons that are pinging the GitHub for like the latest version and then making commits of like, hey, like, okay, which one should I use to to to upgrade myself?
1:59:33
Um, and I've I've I've been like maxing out personal credit cards uh just trying to like pay for the computer.
1:59:38
Like I would like load up $1,000 and then like within like 10 minutes like it's just like okay like the servers been bots like all the credits are gone and I'm like oh my oh my freaking god like what's what's happening?
1:59:51
Because like there's so much demand right now from the AIS for like the computer or like different different things.
1:59:57
So, um, yeah, I mean, well, we'll see.
2:00:00
We'll see where it goes, but I think, uh, there's I mean, the the post got 5 million views and it's it's growing and tons of people contributing, so I'm uh I'm really excited to see what what >> Someone said Vitalic was was commenting. Is that true?
2:00:17
>> I haven't been able to find it.
2:00:20
>> I think Vitalik I think Vitalik responded.
2:00:23
responded. I think um I think the biggest thing um to everyone who's watching uh and observing this is like I I I really think that an internet where um AI is like the end user is inevitable and it's much better for us to build it in the open and be able to see it and
2:00:45
like people can look at how it's evolving and um be able to test it and versus not not giving and open and and I think it's it's one of the most important experiments to run and for us all to to see and make sure that it is uh built in a in a in a safe and open way. >> Well, good luck with the credit card
2:01:04
>> Well, good luck with the credit card maxing. Keep us posted.
2:01:08
Hopefully uh >> fast takeoff and credit card bills for sure.
2:01:12
>> Yeah, super super cool project.
2:01:12
Thanks so much for coming on and break it down for us.
2:01:16
>> Yeah, we're excited to follow along. >> Thank you so much.
2:01:18
>> Have a good rest of your day. Cheers.
2:01:19
>> We'll talk to you soon.
2:01:20
>> Let me tell you about Figma.
2:01:20
should have the best version, not the first one.
2:01:25
With Figma, introducing Claude code to Figma.
2:01:27
Explore more options and push ideas further with Figma, baby.
2:01:29
Uh, Gabe has a post here that's very important to highlight.
2:01:35
This is how it feels to pop a zen and read the morning's emails at my fake email job.
2:01:42
Elite, the under image, I don't know.
2:01:46
But the razor with the gloves, this is this is taste.
2:01:51
>> This is what Tyler looks like when he's organizing the our timeline in the morning. >> Yeah.
2:01:56
He's always in this exact outfit.
2:01:58
And then he changes into the suit for the show.
2:02:00
And I'm like, you can just wear that crazy outfit if that's who you are as a person. Just be yourself. >> Be yourself. Everyone else is taken. >> Exactly. Everyone else is taken.
2:02:07
Uh but he insists on on wearing a costume instead of expressing himself uh fully.
2:02:14
But hopefully one day you will see Tyler in all the glory of >> We also have breaking news. The the US won.
2:02:20
They beat Canada over time.
2:02:27
>> Congratulations to America. >> Let's go. Fantastic. Fantastic work. >> Yes.
2:02:34
Uh let me tell you about Railway.
2:02:39
You heard Sigil mention it.
2:02:39
Railway is the all-in-one intelligent cloud provider.
2:02:43
Use your favorite agent to deploy web apps, servers, databases, and more.
2:02:46
While Railway automatically takes care of scaling, monitoring, and security.
2:02:51
>> Open AI is closing up the first phase of the new funding round, which will top a hundred billion. Wow.
2:02:56
Uh this would be the biggest round. >> Biggest number.
2:03:03
>> The biggest number ever.
2:03:04
>> The biggest number ever.
2:03:04
>> The biggest number ever.
2:03:06
>> Uh these funding rounds are so big that they leak.
2:03:08
So they're like the leakiest buckets and you hear about them for months and months and months and you're like I've been hearing about this for so long.
2:03:14
This happened with XAI where we were hearing about the XAI raise for so long everyone was like wow it must be going terribly and then it was like oh no they actually closed it and upsized it a a ton because there was actually a lot of demand and so these big rounds >> upsizing the upsizing at that point maybe came after >> oh rumors maybe.
2:03:34
Yeah, we did see that announcement.
2:03:35
Yeah, again the the even even you know you can never doubt Elon's ability to uh win and make progress but >> just the the traction at the time and the evaluation relative uh to the other labs was uh was interesting.
2:03:50
Uh Dan says my sources say the model OpenAI has been holding back is a big leap not a small jump could be today but I'm not sure. vague post. >> It's one It's 100 pm.
2:04:04
I don't think we're going to see it today, but it's but it's fun to think about.
2:04:10
>> Well, there's more news, but our next guest, Sager and Jetty from Breaking Points, is in the re room waiting room.
2:04:14
Let's bring him in to the TV Ultra Dome.
2:04:16
Sager, how are you doing? >> Hello, gentlemen.
2:04:18
Thank you for having me back.
2:04:20
>> We have so we have so much good news for you.
2:04:22
But first, can we do a sound check?
2:04:24
Can you just say platypus 25 times? I >> platypus. Platypus. Platypus. >> Oh, I'm retired. I'm retired. Thank you. Thank you.
2:04:32
I I wasn't sure you were going to do that, but uh this is this is gamechanging for me and my family. So, thank you.
2:04:38
Uh no, we will not be betting on this conversation.
2:04:41
We will not be encouraging that, but we will be asking you about elite lawyers are seeing record hourly rates.
2:04:53
I knew I knew you were going to love that.
2:04:54
>> You're going to love that.
2:04:55
>> Uh two some of these Oh, yes.
2:04:55
Some of these hedge fund guys are putting up record >> record numbers.
2:05:01
Steve Cohen just pulled in 3. 4 billion. That's good news.
2:05:05
>> We know you're going to be excited about that. >> Yeah.
2:05:07
I'm really I'm I'm just I'm you know, it warms my heart to see the top of American society doing so well and carrying the US economy on their back. >> Yes. Yes. Yes. True.
2:05:15
True elite elite media, not not independent anti-establishment. Right. Exactly.
2:05:20
That that's what Breaking Point stands for, breaking the bank.
2:05:25
>> Anyway, great to have you on the show.
2:05:27
Uh Let's start with this.
2:05:27
Let's start with this Wall Street Journal article.
2:05:30
So, uh, social media bans for youth are gaining momentum worldwide.
2:05:34
I was sort of saying like I get it, but also it's a little bit of a parenting skill issue.
2:05:41
I, you know, can make choices like how how heavy of a hand do we want on social media?
2:05:47
Uh, how are how have you been processing social media and kids?
2:05:49
Yeah, we were we were talking before the show about this a little bit and I was saying that like an iPad like very even even without social media really is like a drug like it probably has an immediate negative effect on the child.
2:06:05
>> But if you're on some place like an airplane where like a child could be, you know, completely freaking out and really ruining the other passenger's time.
2:06:12
>> You're sacrificing >> maybe you got to sacrifice the child >> uh via a little iPad time.
2:06:16
But uh yeah, broadly I I don't necessarily disagree with that, man.
2:06:23
Uh I think that there's a time and a place technology can be a tool and definitely even some of the people in the no tech community for children will say, "Look, if we're on an airplane, we can all make exceptions."
2:06:34
But I do think it is important to zoom out and say organically, John, people you and I our age as we begin to bring children in the world and as we're on the backside of and really recognizing some of the dangers of technology, phone addiction and seeing the light in an a child's eyes the moment that they see a screen.
2:06:51
My kid's only 9 months old.
2:06:51
If this TV goes on, I mean, I'm talking about immediately going directly towards it.
2:06:58
I have friends with smaller children, you know, like 2, three years old, and their battle there is constant.
2:07:03
I'm not sure if you guys saw the more viral thread recently about Spotify and parents who are really freaking out because Spotify has added music videos.
2:07:11
And it used to be that they would give their children their Spotify account.
2:07:14
They say, "Hey, you can play whatever music they want."
2:07:16
All of a sudden, my kids asking for Spotify all the time is watching the Moana video, which I would never let them watch on YouTube.
2:07:21
And so, broadly, I think the entire >> Dude, yeah, exactly.
2:07:25
I mean, think about our our own experiences, right?
2:07:27
Our parents, you know, they're like, "Yeah, mom, don't worry about it." Right?
2:07:30
I'm I'm spending six hours doing my homework with my friends.
2:07:34
Definitely not on AOL like shit-talking with all of my friends.
2:07:38
Any millennial, I think, can can really understand that.
2:07:40
But because of our relationship with technology and then seeing it at such a young age with these children, I do think that parents around the world are waking up to this.
2:07:50
And many of the experiments that have happened about banning social media, keeping children away from phones, especially banning uh phones in school, the results have been extraordinary for the people who are doing it.
2:08:00
I'm not sure if you saw this, there's a recent phenomenon of many parents are even turning in the schoolisssued Chromebooks or laptops and saying, "No, we're going back to paper.
2:08:10
We want all paper exams."
2:08:13
Especially with AI and, you know, concerns about My parents are >> They saw us print out the post.
2:08:16
They saw us print out the post. Exactly. I love the print out.
2:08:20
You guys see you see the utility and the physicality of doing that.
2:08:25
You know, I don't know if you guys saw this.
2:08:26
I'll tell a personal anecdote.
2:08:27
Uh I was talking about this with reading and one of my friends was like, "Dude, you don't even read."
2:08:30
And and I was like, "Well, I I've I only listen exclusively to audiobooks for the last like 10 to 12 years."
2:08:36
But I was talking with them about how children will mirror your behavior.
2:08:40
And I was like, "Oh my god, my child will never know that I read 40 books a year because they never see me read."
2:08:48
And so it's time to bust out these bad boys again, no headphones, you know, just sit on the couch, nothing else going on, 1990s style, and and show like this is a very important part of our life.
2:09:01
And so the physicality and also you you'll discover that the mental exercise by doing that is fundamentally different.
2:09:07
Andrew Huberman's actually talked a lot about this about physically reading the page and memory retention, different ways that they will activate different parts of your brain.
2:09:17
So, it's really about trying to hang on to the physical world and the benefits that we recognize that that that has. >> Yeah.
2:09:23
>> Yeah. I I'm so curious to know how much these companies uh the the platforms whether it's like entertainment platforms like YouTube much less of a of a social network versus the meta platforms actually actually generate from a revenue standpoint from accounts that are like targeting like you know
2:09:42
for teenagers >> like in in some ways they're not the most valuable consumers because they don't necessarily have a credit card or they can't just like be you know direct response like, you know, spending money, but at the same time, I I just going off of Miss Rachel on YouTube's like earnings. Like, clearly advertisers will
2:10:00
Like, clearly advertisers will put an insane amount of dollars behind these channels. >> Mhm. >> Yeah.
2:10:07
Well, the thing is, dude, with that is that it's not about the children spending money.
2:10:10
It's about how they pester the parents to buy Miss Rachel products.
2:10:14
You know, Miss Rachel is a business.
2:10:16
She's a billiondollar enterprise.
2:10:18
You can go to Walmart and Target and buy stuff with her.
2:10:19
I mean, I don't know if you guys know what Tony boxes are, but you can actually get like specific Tony's, which is it's like a child's toy that plays songs and you can put physical items on top of them. They charge $20 each.
2:10:30
There's an entire aisle at Target.
2:10:33
Everything is about their favorite YouTube show or like their favorite character that they'll learn about.
2:10:39
And you know, some of them, I have had many parents tell me, you know, the introduction to my show.
2:10:43
They're like, "Oh, my kid knows the introduction to Breaking Points cuz I watch it all the time."
2:10:50
like they're like w you know welcome to breaking points.
2:10:51
It's an independent show but and and I get that like you know no fault to to that person but I I am just showing you like the mimemetic quality of technology in a child's life and how that bubbles up through everything.
2:11:02
So like Minecraft related birthdays and the way that they will socialize with Roblox, right?
2:11:06
Like if you were to ask a friend of mine told me this, you know, their kids were introducing themselves at soccer practice and they're like, "My name is so and so and I like to I like to play Roblox."
2:11:15
They're like, "Oh my god, me too." Right?
2:11:17
And so like the nature say they introduce themselves in real life with their gamer >> tag. Yes. Right.
2:11:22
Well well they probably do that and I'm not sure if you know about the scandal involving Roblox too which we don't have to get into but yeah there's another problem right in terms of spending time online and that mimemetic quality.
2:11:34
So me personally I can only speak for myself.
2:11:35
I'm doing my best to keep my kid or and future kids away from this.
2:11:40
But you know the one thing I always want to emphasize is that this is still an elite phenomenon.
2:11:43
And at the individual middle class level, the vast majority of American parents are not like woke on the technology question.
2:11:51
They may feel something, but a lot of them are still letting their children use a lot of iPad, a lot of TV time.
2:11:57
And that's why I do think that the government here, it's it's almost unfair, right, to leave it up to an individual with vast amounts of resources and algorithms at engineers and others developing trying to uh you know, trying to optimize time on platform.
2:12:11
You're up against a ve you're in a very asymmetric war and that's why I think it's important to try and have some regulation around this. >> Mhm. Yeah.
2:12:18
The only issue is that you ban kids accounts and then the parents just have their account and they're like here's the iPad or like here's here's I'm putting on.
2:12:28
So again, it has to there there's maybe a solution at the at the just >> age level, but but it's also >> I I'll tell you this, man, and I always hear this, especially on on drugs, right? Can we all pause it?
2:12:41
If drugs are illegal, people will always find a way.
2:12:46
What did we learn with gambling? Friction is important.
2:12:48
Actually, making it illegal is really good.
2:12:50
So yes, I will grant you that even if we were to put some modest regulation, some parents would still go around it.
2:12:56
The point is about friction and the social signal.
2:12:58
If you can reduce in this example, it's it's zero friction, right?
2:13:03
Because >> I really disagree with that.
2:13:05
You know, the ability to just create your own account or even the social signal to every parent in America for everyone saying, "Hey, like you're going to have to do a workaround with your parents social media account and you're going to have to give it to your kid or if we have >> I was talking about the example of like your like a 5-year-old watching YouTube.
2:13:24
It's like it's most likely the parent is.
2:13:26
But yeah, if you if you have Yeah, you don't want your your uh you know 10-year-old using your Instagram account, right?
2:13:32
That >> it's not the same.
2:13:34
I mean, that's not even social media >> because but but I'm just saying like I think there's two problems.
2:13:38
It's being focused on social media, but like entertain like like highly stimulating entertainment is clearly bad for kids.
2:13:46
And this is purely purely anecdotal.
2:13:49
I've tried we've tried like putting on like an animated show uh for 10 minutes and immediately after the kid >> just is like way more sensitive like gets gets like really angry short-tempered all these things.
2:14:05
So it's like okay let's not do that cuz clearly it has an immediate like there's like a comedown. >> Um >> it's bad.
2:14:13
Well, I'll tell you guys, even I mean I hate to say it for my girl Miss Rachel, but I'm never using Miss Rachel. And I'll tell you why.
2:14:19
Is that as a YouTuber, and you guys know this too, YouTube is about retention and time on platform.
2:14:25
And so, even though I think she has a role, at the end of the day, there's a lot of jump cuts, smashes, constantly keeping children's attention.
2:14:33
If you do want to play video, a lot of parents are experimenting with 1990s TV.
2:14:39
actual VCRs and playing the pre-in retention era where you have all the engineer I mean look it's not miss Rachel's fault she knows certain types of videos are going to increase time on platform why do you think she makes so much money on for business man
2:14:57
>> exactly dude and these you know if you want two to three hours of retention in your YouTube video you got to keep your kids engaged people in the '9s they were thinking about that to a certain extent but the technology ology and the knowledge about. >> And by the way, we know what you're
2:15:09
>> And by the way, we know what you're doing with your voice right now.
2:15:10
You're keeping us engaged. Fluctuating.
2:15:15
>> Listen, I'm part of the problem, brother. I'm part of the problem.
2:15:16
I wouldn't even be sitting here without those algorithms.
2:15:19
That's always something that we got to square. >> Yeah.
2:15:22
I I want to talk more about that, but I have a funny story about Miss Rachel.
2:15:24
I went to a kid's birthday party and uh there was someone who's dressed up as Miss Rachel, like singing a song in the costume, and I was so out of the loop.
2:15:32
I was like, "Oh, is that the Miss the real Miss Rachel?"
2:15:33
And they're like, "No, she's a billionaire.
2:15:34
like she's not just making random appearances.
2:15:36
I thought I thought it was just like, "Oh yeah, you could like just throw her a couple hundred bucks."
2:15:41
>> I wonder if you do if she does have speaking fees.
2:15:44
>> She definitely has speaking fees.
2:15:44
That's probably six figures at least.
2:15:46
>> I you know, I don't know.
2:15:46
Miss Miss Rachel is actually a big leftist.
2:15:48
She doesn't even believe billionaires should exist.
2:15:52
So I I would be surprised. I would be surprised.
2:15:54
I hear she lives very modestly actually in New York, well below her means, but I don't know a lot about her.
2:15:59
I've listened to a few interviews.
2:16:01
She's an interesting lady. >> Yeah.
2:16:02
What what uh what about uh like your interaction with social media, social media addiction, this type of stuff because I feel like I mean we're in a very weird position.
2:16:10
I I like to say like I my screen time is low because I am the screen time.
2:16:14
Like right now I'm not on my phone and I actually this actually shows up in my screen time like because I'm on the show and so like yes I'm reading posts but not on my phone.
2:16:24
when I'm reading like the paper here physically and so uh but a lot of what I have to do for my job is actually on social media and it's been both I really enjoy it and also economically valuable like everything is squared where I feel like maybe I'm addicted to but it's kind of like addicted to your job I I don't
2:16:41
know it's like weird for me but how have you processed it addicted to the game uh how have you processed it and like how do you think about like your own your own social media use how bad it can be for like you know people that are sharp about it >> yeah story of my life for for the last 10 years. Literally wouldn't be here if
2:16:54
Literally wouldn't be here if I wasn't addicted to social media.
2:16:56
And now also uh I'm like social media is bad.
2:17:00
Uh you know I I think John we are in a perfect position right because we can always justify it.
2:17:04
You're like babe it's for work. Don't worry about it. Yeah. It's for work. Don't worry.
2:17:08
And you're just like sitting there scrolling about some drama intra drama which if you tried to explain to a normal person they'd be like what are you talking about?
2:17:16
We we we explained we we we we had to explain uh >> clvicular getting to a gender maxing. My wife is like what?
2:17:26
Like it's like is your brain rotted or remember the the Gary Tan meme?
2:17:31
They're like Gary Tan needs to save me from being and I was I made a joke about that to a friend and they're like dude what are you talking about?
2:17:40
I was like oh my god I'm so online. Yeah.
2:17:42
Yeah, for my own social media use, for anyone who follows me on Twitter, uh I don't tweet that much anymore.
2:17:48
I'll do it like fits and spurts and I have a lot of rules around like family time, etc.
2:17:51
But again, you know, would I be here if I hadn't been literally addicted to getting into Twitter?
2:18:01
>> I was saying we're going to pull up our pull up pull up the ladder behind us.
2:18:04
The last social media guys, >> here's my thing.
2:18:06
Here's what I would recommend.
2:18:08
If you want to do what John and Jordy and me and I do, you should probably do what we did.
2:18:11
you will lose uh you will lose parts of your life to it.
2:18:16
Uh I it's funny, you know, I don't know about you guys, the most fun I ever had on Twitter was like blue check with sub 5K followers cuz we're posting all day.
2:18:25
Gentlemen, when you have 500,000 followers and you have like, you know, very powerful people who follow me, you're like, "Ah, dude, it's kind of controversial.
2:18:34
I can't be making fun of it. I miss it every day. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
2:18:45
I mean, it was also a different time years ago before the acquisition because like truly everyone was there and now people have fragmented to threads and blue sky and so you don't get as much like cross-pollination fighting which is like the real fun stuff.
2:18:57
A lot of times you got to take the fight to them over on over on threads if you have an opinion about basketball.
2:19:01
I I I have a sort of ongoing concern that the way that feeds work today are going to have some real impact on either short or long-term memory because I don't think the human brain was meant to process like hockey data center uh you know uh Donald Trump s like >> AI video of cat >> curling you know and so and so uh you know you're reading other forms of media even a newspaper yeah technically you could kind of like skim the headlines, whatever.
2:19:33
Um, >> but pretty quickly you go into an article and you're like, >> I totally agree.
2:19:37
You know, uh, years ago I quit.
2:19:39
I didn't tweet for 3 months.
2:19:39
I found myself >> thinking in tweets.
2:19:44
I would have something happen and I would frame it immediately.
2:19:47
I'd be like, "Oh, this is ex this would be the character limit.
2:19:51
Here's how I would do it."
2:19:51
And I was like, "Oh my god."
2:19:52
Like my brain is rotted, dude.
2:19:54
I was like, "This is like five, you know, five years of reflex."
2:19:58
And this is when I was really, you know, in the game.
2:19:59
Uh, and I do recommend that people, you know, really check themselves.
2:20:03
And part of the way that's part of the reason you should read a physical and a real book.
2:20:05
This is part of the danger.
2:20:07
I also think about chat GPT with students.
2:20:09
I was talking to a class and I was just asking them how many of them write physical articles.
2:20:14
It was a journalism class.
2:20:16
Like, do they know how to write a 1,000word article without AI?
2:20:20
None of them knew how to do it. It's painful, man. Oh, man. It's painful.
2:20:24
But it teaches you a lot.
2:20:26
sentence structure, how to convey yourself, and you know, news copy is fundamentally about how to grab attention, how to keep attention, convey as much information as possible, but also be able to flesh out and to tell a story.
2:20:38
But that's the hardest part, the third one, and that's what really makes your brain work.
2:20:41
And a lot of these students had never attempted or even really knew how to do that.
2:20:45
I was really, it made me afraid, right?
2:20:48
Because now everybody thinks of the news as tweets instead of learning how to write or like you know the axios like be short brevity stuff which I get is very useful. Everything has utility.
2:20:58
It's it's for us and as consumers it's all about thinking about how to balance it and then really as parents man that is the hardest hardest question that we have to solve. >> Yeah.
2:21:09
Well let's switch gears to something that we're fortunately uh not addicted to. Cannabis.
2:21:13
It feels like cannabis has been uh growing in a very dangerous way.
2:21:20
Uh Andrew Huberman told us that the best thing about cannabis cannabis is that you should recommend it to your enemies and your rivals because it will help you get away uh get ahead by not using it.
2:21:30
But uh I guess my question is like for my entire life basically I guess the last like decade people have been like oh it's going to be federally legal soon.
2:21:37
There's going to be some bill.
2:21:38
But it feels like nothing's really changed except for the potency, the negative impacts, the adoption rate, the commercial success, but there hasn't been really been even like a power law company that owns it all.
2:21:53
It's all very distributed still.
2:21:55
Like where do you actually see this going?
2:21:57
Is is the conversation stagnant or is there something that needs to be reignited?
2:22:01
Yeah, I would push you a little bit, John, because the most important thing that's just happened is Donald Trump reschedled marijuana, which opens the door to exactly what you're talking about.
2:22:10
And just to explain at a banking level, schedule one down to schedule 3 means that it opens up the ability for the big weed companies to have access to the legitimate banking system, which is specifically what's kept the big weed conglomerate companies that you're worried about from happening.
2:22:24
So, this is going to happen.
2:22:26
And there are actually prototype companies like this that are out there with several billion dollars in market cap.
2:22:31
The thing that we should worry about the most is potency.
2:22:33
And I've talked about this, you know, Andrew, he's always been great on the weed question.
2:22:38
This is fundamentally about marijuana social norms and regulatory structure.
2:22:44
And when I talk about social norms, at the most, it's kind of like what we were just saying with phones.
2:22:49
The signal of legalization and then the cultural uh millu around weed was that nobody ever died. It's just a plant, man.
2:22:57
And you know what I always say to that?
2:22:59
that? Hemp is or sorry uh uh what is it the po like there are poisons that are plants right hemlock is a plant that doesn't mean that it's good for you hemlock is a naturally occurring substance that doesn't mean that it's not also going to kill you the point that remains >> just a rock
2:23:15
yeah it's like yeah a rock a rock can be smashed to death so the point is is that there's this social norm where marijuana addiction is not seen as an addiction if you wake you know wake and bake that entire idea what do you call somebody who has to drink the moment that they wake up in the morning. You're an
2:23:30
You're an alcoholic loser. Sorry. >> Yeah. No. Okay.
2:23:34
Like you are an alcoholic loser. All right.
2:23:36
Everyone in your life is going to be like, "Bro, you have a problem."
2:23:40
Like you have a serious problem.
2:23:41
If you wake and bake, it's all chill. Right?
2:23:44
You know, and these these guys are like, "Oh, I smoke every single day and it's medicine."
2:23:48
There have been multiple studies now that show that all almost all the claims around medical marijuana are complete They are at the very least. It's kind of like SSRI.
2:23:58
People are like, "Well, SSRIs work for me."
2:24:01
I'm like, "Well, in double blind studies, it actually shows that exercise is more effective and there's significant downside to SSRI.
2:24:05
It doesn't mean it can't work.
2:24:07
It just means that there's a lot of other stuff which is not nearly the number of negative externalities.
2:24:13
The cultural conversation around marijuana does not factor in all of this high potency, the uh the amount of IQ being lost amongst children, can cannabis hyperis syndrome, the scromitting phenomenon, teenagers who are getting checked into the ER at a record height who are vomiting for days on end and it's in their fat cells and they're withdrawing from like this is a serious crisis.
2:24:36
Ask any ER doctor and they'll know exactly.
2:24:39
you uh Gab Gabe in our chat says, "If you want cannabis to be more regulated, rescheduling is the way because it enables companies to actually do uh research on it."
2:24:48
>> Oh, we know everything we need to know about weed.
2:24:50
It makes you fat, you're a loser, it lowers your testosterone, it's bad for pregnant women, it lowers your IQ, it's makes you an addict.
2:24:55
We don't need any more research.
2:24:58
We have tens of billions or sorry, tens of millions of research subjects every day here in the United States.
2:25:07
No, I I mean I've never So So I I I you know, earlier in my career, I I I was kind of uh >> tried to uh tried to track some of this stuff of of I I was wondering would anyone that was a proud cannabis user, like an active user, go on to build a big company and so far uh have haven't seen it.
2:25:30
And so I always saw it as like it's a performance decreasing drug. Correct.
2:25:34
There's some people that are going to just say, "I'm fine. I'm fine with that."
2:25:37
I I that they might enjoy it and it's worth the >> Yeah.
2:25:41
Like if you're like 180 IQ and you don't want to go into like math, pure math or chess compet, you can go work at a hedge fund or something, >> right?
2:25:49
Well, you know, guys, it's like gambling.
2:25:51
And you know, that's always not everyone who gambles is an addict, but a significant portion of the people who do.
2:25:56
And the negative externality of that is the highest suicide rate of any addiction known to mankind.
2:26:00
So, not all marijuana users are addicts, although about 20% of them are daily users.
2:26:05
And I would classify you as an addict if you are using it every single day specifically for like medicinal purposes, you know, fake medicinal purposes.
2:26:15
And it's, you know, they people just do not grapple with.
2:26:16
And by the way, this is the subject I get the most hate on.
2:26:20
I'm talking about BLM, trans, Iran, Israel.
2:26:22
I'm telling you, nobody has ever threatened to kill me over those. It's always weed.
2:26:27
There's something about their attachment, their pathological attachment to this drug that people telling the truth about this substance just triggers them, you know, to the >> Let's switch to something less controversial. Data centers. >> Data centers. >> Okay. Data centers. >> Uh what what Yeah.
2:26:44
So, so how have you been track I saw something I think it was New Jersey today had some success banning >> a new data center project.
2:26:53
Uh what what are you what are you tracking right now specifically guys?
2:26:57
The MAGA revolt around this is incredible.
2:26:59
So, Oklahoma just had a major town hall meeting.
2:27:02
You can go read about the Financial Times just wrote a whole story about all of the MAGA counties and red states that are revoling against data centers.
2:27:10
A lot of these people are actually going uh they're they're like showing up to town hall meetings.
2:27:17
They're staying the lines are so long till 4:00 a. m.
2:27:18
People are bringing their children with signs that say no data centers.
2:27:22
They're like, "We don't believe your lies. Stay out of here."
2:27:26
You know what's interesting?
2:27:26
What I really love about the American public is they're taking this issue seriously.
2:27:31
So, a couple of people showing up to the city council were like, "Hey, I'm reading articles about how the Chinese are able to do this without a lot with less power and resources.
2:27:38
So, how do we know that you're even going to be sticking around here?
2:27:42
Like, you're going to build this massive conglomerate and then there'll be a sea change in the technology and you're just going to abandon us immediately with all of your claims."
2:27:51
Not to mention the power generation issue which is massively controversial in all of these states.
2:27:55
So I actually think the you know the revolt that I predicted it's already happening.
2:28:01
It's a blue state red state phenomenon. But this is hyper local.
2:28:04
Nobody really in Washington is paying attention to this.
2:28:08
But when you've got do you know what it takes for people ordinary citizens to show up and stay in line till 4:00 a. m.
2:28:13
to speak against something. It does.
2:28:14
It's not a lot of subjects you know that will inspire that level of hatred.
2:28:19
So for all the data center builders who are out there, you got to convince us more, man, that this is actually going to do something for us because we're not buying it right now.
2:28:27
>> What do you think about the uh initiatives from many of the tech companies to offset the increase in power prices?
2:28:33
That seems like very logical that if someone's energy bill is actually flat or falling, that takes them out of the line at 4 a. m. >> Totally. I I'm I'm with you.
2:28:44
like I do think that was a little bit reactive to the populist backlash that was coming against data centers.
2:28:50
It remains to be seen whether something like that's actually going to happen or not and also it comes down to the regulators in the individual states.
2:28:57
Now I would totally support that if they man they make it mandatory you have to build the amount of power if you're going to be able to do this.
2:29:04
But you know in general guys it's not about the individual policy.
2:29:06
It really is an overarching populist backlash against AI.
2:29:11
And I think that's what these guys really don't uh they what they underestimate more than anything is that the public utility of this technology is just not bought by the American people on this subject and they really feel as if it's encroaching at a high level and then at a low level whenever it's your individual community.
2:29:30
>> Part part of the part of the part of the story is that the data center doesn't need to be in your backyard to get the value from AI.
2:29:38
If you ask I every person I ask outside of tech has a >> great story to tell you about AI.
2:29:45
It could be really simple.
2:29:47
It could be oh it helped me learn this thing.
2:29:49
It could be I it helped me make this you know image that that I I shared a moment with my family.
2:29:55
Like they don't you know there there's like the higher level stuff like you know if we can accelerate you know scientific research and and uh generally increase productivity across the whole economy all that stuff's great too.
2:30:07
But uh again the uh the not getting a benefit from being in your own town is like a real thing. >> Yeah. Right. No. Exactly.
2:30:17
And and I also say Jordy that's a very white collar kind of bias whenever it comes to AI, right?
2:30:23
So we're talking about blue collar workers who are wearing you have a blue collar yourself >> brother.
2:30:28
Uh brother I'm not claiming to be one of these people.
2:30:31
>> I'm saying you literally have I'm saying you literally do a blue collar. >> Yeah. Yeah. Fair fair point. That's true.
2:30:35
Uh, but I'm saying for a lot of these people, you know, let's say you're a Teamster, right?
2:30:39
And you're talking about and you're reading articles about self-driving cars and the Teamsters Union is sounding the alarm about this.
2:30:46
I mean, remember, you know, the vast what is it 60% maybe 45% of the American public has gone to college has gone to college, right?
2:30:53
So, let's say 60% or so, let's say metriculated, have not metriculated from a 4-year college degree.
2:30:59
That is a significant part of the US population that's going to think about the technology very differently.
2:31:05
And then what percent of college graduates are doing work where they feel under threat let's say from AI and they're like oh my god like this job could be gone in two to three years right >> I mean the current proclamation of doom is around early stage white collar work
2:31:19
not even the blue collar thing uh what are you seeing in the economy weird job numbers >> some job growth but not a lot it's all healthcare related and services like how have you been interpreting all the different girrations in the labor market. >> Yeah, John, we talk about this all the
2:31:35
>> Yeah, John, we talk about this all the time.
2:31:36
We're like, well, the economy's growth is just AI and then the other backst step of it is just healthare workers who are like caring for boomers and that's apparently the US economy.
2:31:49
That's the the backbone of the US economy are like senior nursing individ you know like health home healthcare aids. I'm not even joking.
2:31:55
This is like one of the fastest growing sectors currently of the economy.
2:31:58
There's not a lot of innovation.
2:32:00
I mean, look, everybody's worried about tariffs.
2:32:04
there's some of the manufacturing blowback that's currently happening.
2:32:05
blowback that's currently happening. I also think you know if you look at the labor market and the housing market the softness you know in the housing market specifically that is the one the populist area I'll tell you there is no
2:32:18
issue like again like with weed when I get the most amount of hate the most amount of love is if I'm talking about housing and the inability for people who are my age or you know in their 40s or all the way up to their 40s and really feel uncompetitive in the housing market. There's a lot of
2:32:31
There's a lot of intergenerational rage, you know, about boomers.
2:32:34
It's just a Wall Street Journal article, might even be in the paper in front of you about how boomers uh have all of the money.
2:32:39
They had a big interactive spread in their paper today.
2:32:43
But these things go viral in the wrong way uh for a lot of younger Americans.
2:32:48
And so I do think >> does any part of you uh believe what I think Silicon Valley believes which is that uh widespread diffusion of robotics could ultimately uh bring down housing prices.
2:33:01
prices. I don't know uh you know I don't know if anybody's obviously right because there's regulatory there's all these kind of like local level challenges but uh I would say that generally we at the show believe that
2:33:15
you know 10 years from now we'll have millions and millions and millions of robots that can do functionally useful tasks like building homes and you could uh you know send an army of these robots uh and build a suburb in a in a relatively short period of time. Uh and
2:33:29
Uh and and so I >> kind of ignores the demand side issue though, you know, because right now the builders will tell you that they are fully capable of building a smaller, cheaper type of house, but that that's not where the market is in terms of the people who have money.
2:33:44
Part of the reason that we've seen the rise of McMansions and larger houses is because that's the demand side problem where a lot of people who have more money are the people who are willing to buy these bigger, more palatial homes with lots of experiences in it.
2:33:57
the suburb you're thinking about.
2:33:59
My idealized, one of my favorite books is about the 1950s.
2:34:01
There were these things called Levittowns, you know, where Mr.
2:34:05
Levit would build a suburb and be 1500t house and, you know, it wasn't that great.
2:34:09
A couple bedrooms, it had a car park, not a garage, but, you know, a little covered uh parking area.
2:34:15
It was a couple 30 40 minutes from the city.
2:34:17
But this was the dream, you know, for a lot of Americans.
2:34:19
The so-called starter home.
2:34:21
The starter home doesn't exist where I live here in Northern Virginia.
2:34:24
The original starter homes from the 1970s go for $1. 2 million. Okay. >> With a ton of stuff. >> Yeah.
2:34:31
And they've been massively renovated with a, you know, the rain shower and all this other stuff for the people uh who can afford it.
2:34:36
So Jordy, the thing I think that that ignores we, I'd have to look it up.
2:34:40
What percent of housing cost is ascribed to labor?
2:34:42
And what percent of housing scarcity is because of the labor constraint that you know or labor costs and not regulatory and existing? >> Yeah.
2:34:52
>> Yeah. And also you're talking about you're talking about standards when we when when when people reflect on the golden sort of era of American history when every you know family could you know own their home with a single income the houses were just tiny right it was
2:35:09
they were homes that today people >> we would consider them tiny >> yeah yeah know I'm saying people generally would look at them today and be like I can't raise a family in that house but there was a time that we did and >> the boomers had wonderful child wonderful childhoods. >> Yeah, they're fine. >> Yeah, they're fine.
2:35:25
>> And then bought the entire economy for potato. >> Yeah. >> Right. And then Well, yeah. Go ahead. >> Yeah.
2:35:31
I I think the biggest bull case for housing is probably more related to self-driving cars.
2:35:35
I've saw this saw this chart that showed that uh that basically most humans have sort of a commute budget where they will are willing to spend up to 30 45 minutes a day commuting each way.
2:35:49
And so, uh, before the horse and carriage, the cities were this big.
2:35:54
And then the horse and carriage expanded it to how long you could take 30 minute horse ride into your job.
2:35:59
Then when the car when the bus line came and the train and the faster car, everything got a little bit more sprawling.
2:36:05
And if you think about, okay, well, I don't love being in the car for an hour, but if it's a self-driving car and I'm just sort of sleeping in the back, that probably extends that that commute budget a little bit.
2:36:15
And then people just push out further into the suburbs.
2:36:19
And we do get new suburbs, but they're just in more undeveloped areas, farther away where the land's >> cheaper.
2:36:25
The other the other connection to that I would add is Starlink.
2:36:26
And that's one I really thought about during co is how Starlink opened up an entire part of the country where for years access to non broadband internet is a death sentence for working from home.
2:36:36
I mean, I wouldn't even be able to do something like this.
2:36:39
Let's say I was traveling and I was on a camping trip or whatever.
2:36:43
Now I could stream into you.
2:36:43
I mean, I think I could be on a United flight with Starlink and I could be streaming with perfect quality.
2:36:51
>> Viral there's going to be viral videos of people being like, I just got on a 6-hour flight and the person sitting next to me is doing has done three podcasts already. >> Right.
2:37:00
>> It's like, please, by the way, do not do that.
2:37:02
You are an Do not do that. Yeah.
2:37:04
Do not take an interview.
2:37:06
>> Anyway, thank you so much for taking the time to come chat.
2:37:08
Glad I'm glad that we could agree that that there's a a technoc capital solution for every problem in our lives. >> Yes. >> Yes.
2:37:16
But perhaps maybe followed by a political solution to that techno capital. >> Oh no.
2:37:21
We'll get into that next time.
2:37:23
Have a great rest of your day, soccer. We'll talk to you soon. Good to see you. >> Goodbye.
2:37:26
Let me tell you about vibe.
2:37:26
co where DTC brands, B2B startups, and AI companies advertise on streaming TV.
2:37:31
Pick channels, target audiences, measure sales just like on Meta.
2:37:33
And without further ado, >> profanity alert. Profanity alert. >> Thank you. Yes. Yes.
2:37:38
We need to clean like a sailor. >> Clean it up.
2:37:42
We will be bleeping him in post potentially.
2:37:44
I don't know if we'll actually do that, but anyway, uh we have Dylan Field from Figma in the reream waiting room.
2:37:49
Let's bring him into the TV. I'll show him. Dylan, how you doing? >> Hey, good. How are you guys doing? Oh, slid back. >> Doing great. >> Great to see you.
2:37:56
>> Did you hear the news?
2:37:56
America just won in overtime.
2:37:59
>> We beat the Canadians.
2:38:00
>> I did not hear that news. The Olympics in hockey. Yeah. >> Oh, wow. >> It's great.
2:38:03
>> There's a lot to celebrate. >> Yes.
2:38:05
Uh but give us but give us the news in your world. How are things going? >> It's good.
2:38:09
Uh we're working hard, having fun.
2:38:13
>> Um but yeah, we uh just uh did our earnings and >> really strong results. So we're super excited.
2:38:21
Uh 2025 was just a massive year for us and the fourth quarter uh was our best quarter yet.
2:38:27
So >> we had >> 40% year-over-year growth. Right. >> You got it.
2:38:32
Uh we did 304 304 million in revenue. >> Wow.
2:38:37
>> And then uh also yeah we I mean looking at the whole year I mean we just shipped so much went from four to eight products launched over 200 features uh and most recently uh uh earlier this week >> on Tuesday we launched a quad code to Figma design uh pathway where you can go from code to the Figma canvas.
2:38:56
Uh, and I'm really excited about how we can do this entire round trip. Yeah. Yeah.
2:39:02
>> And make it possible so that wherever you start, we can give you a way to go anywhere on the Vigma platform.
2:39:07
Do you think people are sort of underappreciating that loop because so many of the experiences with agentic coding systems like Cloud Code are very toy projects?
2:39:20
Like the first time I used Codeex on desktop, I just remade the TVPN homepage to look like uh to look like Berkshire Hathaway's website.
2:39:28
And it's like I just took a screenshot.
2:39:29
I didn't need to do any real work.
2:39:31
It was a five minute thing.
2:39:33
Uh, and I think a lot of people are amazed by the like toy projects, but then they don't really think about what's happening when it there's a design system, this is a large organization, this is an enterprise, this is going to be something that's enduring.
2:39:44
And so, can you share a little bit more about that flywheel and what it takes to actually put these tools to use in a serious way?
2:39:53
>> You know, I think it's actually really important even when you're maybe it's my mindset.
2:39:56
I'm a perfectionist, but uh even for the toy projects, I want to go figure out like what is the best expression of my fun toy project. >> Sure.
2:40:05
>> You know, uh maybe something like a Berschar uh halfway website is a fairly constrained form factor.
2:40:11
And so uh maybe that's not the best example. >> HTML 3.
2:40:15
Um, I recently made, for example, uh, my friend was like, I want to go viral in this year. And it was a birthday.
2:40:24
Like, my goal for this year of my life is to go viral. Okay.
2:40:28
>> I'm like, that well, that's kind of weird, but cool.
2:40:30
>> Uh, and so I made them a >> lot of lot of space to explore there.
2:40:34
There's a lot of ways to go viral. Some some can be good.
2:40:37
>> Go on an airplane, yell at people.
2:40:39
>> What I probably should have done is, hey said, "Hey, go talk to these guys."
2:40:41
But um instead uh I I made them a website with Figma make um and uh made it you know really beautiful and tried a few different directions out and um yeah you know very quickly got to okay here is sort of with some custom prompting like a list of ways for them to go viral given who they are and uh and then it's all collected together in a nice way.
2:41:08
But even for a fun project like that, uh, that's just like, you know, I'm going to send to them.
2:41:12
They're going to do whatever they do.
2:41:13
I don't know if they're going to look at it more than a few times or even a few times. But I don't know.
2:41:19
For me, I want to go explore wide enterprise.
2:41:23
>> Yeah, you absolutely need to go think deeply about what's going to make the best product experience for your customers.
2:41:28
And that's not going to be just a we're going to go code it up and we're going to do whatever we come up with first.
2:41:34
you're going to go actually think through the option space and try to figure out what it is uh that you want to go steer towards. >> That is critical.
2:41:44
Um and if you don't think about that as a system, if you don't actually use all the components you've standardized on the styles, uh then you're not going to appear the same way to your customer throughout the entire user journey.
2:41:56
And it has to really tie together with brand as well as your product uh as well as your point of view and your marketing and your messaging.
2:42:04
So it's super important to make it so that you're able to have all that come together.
2:42:09
And uh just being in code I think is very linear.
2:42:12
You might be running fast but you might be running towards the wrong direction. >> Yeah.
2:42:17
Uh what's driving the Figma make growth?
2:42:21
Is that the the same archetype as the Figma user?
2:42:25
Does it diverge in any interesting ways?
2:42:27
What can you share about like how interesting ways people are using Figma make and also how you're thinking about growing that product? >> Yeah.
2:42:36
Um when you look at Figma make, I think what's really cool is to see how many non-designers are using it. >> Okay.
2:42:45
>> Uh and that is something that we've really picked up on.
2:42:48
uh it's not just the designers that are going in and making really amazing prototypes through Figma design uh but also folks are coming in and uh making these files and prototypes and actually full working web apps and experiences.
2:43:03
I mean 60% of files created in Figma make are non-designers at this point. >> Wow. >> Which is amazing. >> Yeah.
2:43:11
I I mean that was a big part of the original Figma thesis was that uh there were going to be non-designers using this tool from day one.
2:43:20
>> Basically, if you did if you looked at the TAM of the business purely on on a you know product designer basis, it didn't look like it would be business today.
2:43:28
>> I don't think you ever had designer right every day for a decade. >> Yeah.
2:43:34
So, uh yeah, that Yeah, that's interesting.
2:43:36
Um, how do you think about the growth of that product in terms of adding plugins, features, hosting, deployment, uptime, edge, distribution, like that could grow into its whole thing, right? >> Yeah.
2:43:51
Or maybe a more simple question is like where where do you want to partner?
2:43:55
Where do you want to build yourself? >> Yeah.
2:43:57
I mean, I think that we're gonna see tons of partnerships uh for things like Figma make where you need to be able to pull in context from whatever systems people use >> and then with that uh use it to help create and help access data.
2:44:12
Uh but more importantly, I think that it's really key that we both create a simple surface >> that if you're just getting started, you can use and also we figure out how do we make it so that >> you're able to go above and beyond and go really uh professional >> and do uh do things that basically require a skill ladder to traverse. >> Yeah. >> Um but visual first.
2:44:40
That's the thesis is visual first.
2:44:44
>> But yeah, make users grew 70% quarter over quarter.
2:44:47
I mean, we're seeing great adoption.
2:44:49
Uh I think people are really resonating with the product >> and finding all sorts of fun and awesome use cases for it.
2:44:54
And I I think there's such opportunity given the way that um our active users of make are also using Figma design >> to bring these services closer together which I think is back to that divergent point because make is still too linear for uh my taste. >> Oh, interesting.
2:45:13
What uh what are what feature requests are you prioritizing and most thinking about and and what are some maybe more wild feature requests that uh you may Figma may not get to?
2:45:27
>> Well, uh I mean there's a feature request in this conversation to go do edge computing.
2:45:31
I don't think that's going to happen. >> Okay.
2:45:35
>> Uh you know all of our all of the the folks out there working on edge computing, you know, come partner with us. >> Hardware.
2:45:41
>> We're we're not in your space. Don't worry. hardware.
2:45:42
I I want a hardware device.
2:45:45
Um, you you you mentioned taste.
2:45:48
How have you been reacting to the taste discourse?
2:45:50
Is taste a new >> How many different cycles of taste discourse have?
2:45:55
>> This is the first time I've ever heard it have happened since Figma was started.
2:45:59
>> I I think about companies like uh like Linear who who like to me exemplify like a taste driven company and and how many of these cycles where they're like, "Oh, they they care about this again. Great.
2:46:13
Um, I mean, look, like I think that from the start of Figma, you know, the the goal was not just to get everyone doing design or making design software usable by everybody and expanding the market.
2:46:27
That wasn't the way we thought about it.
2:46:28
It was like how do we get people started on this journey >> where they can actually go and be more expressive, more creative, uh, and you know, really start to solve problems.
2:46:40
And you know, maybe it was a bit of like rejection, but for me at least, uh, I wake up in the morning, I'm like, I want to go create software.
2:46:47
I want to go build stuff.
2:46:49
>> And so, how do I make it so that anyone with that impulse can just do that?
2:46:51
Um, that doesn't mean they're all going to have like taste and craft and epic design skills.
2:46:57
I mean, I think for the rest of my life, I can work on that.
2:46:59
Um, and many designers have made that a lifelong pursuit. >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:47:05
There's something there's something that that's very real where >> you start on this creative journey and your taste level can be way above your skill level and it's incredibly frustrating.
2:47:15
And some people start and they just stop >> because they feel like like I have this idea for what I want something to look like or be like and I'm kind of like trying to make things that match that and I can't.
2:47:27
And that's part of why AI in general is like incredibly exciting because it can help you close that gap faster and potentially help you close that gap almost instantly in some circumstances.
2:47:39
But you might create a hundred different outputs before getting to the one that actually meets that, you know, level. >> Yeah.
2:47:47
I think that the the key thing is that you really have to go wide and explore and then challenge yourself.
2:47:52
If you find areas where you're going, hey, actually I don't feel like um I am liking this enough, uh I'm not happy enough with a solution, then you got to go keep pushing.
2:48:06
Um but the more you can sample the possibility space and see some things that you like and you don't like, gives you something to react to.
2:48:13
M >> uh and I think that the the constant thing is you need to be constantly critiquing and thinking about what is it that you like, you don't like, etc.
2:48:24
And you know, people talk about agents all the time.
2:48:28
Uh and I'm I'm obsessed with agents, too. We all are, right? Agents are cool.
2:48:33
>> But um >> how many Mac minis do you have? >> No comment. >> No comment. No comment.
2:48:38
He's the reason that that Mac minis are sold out. >> 10K.
2:48:42
I I swear I am not Claudebot.
2:48:42
Uh but anyway, um but yeah, uh but like I think that the bigger point going back to taste is, you know, if an agent can do it for you, >> then unless you got some amazing sophisticated prompting that's super unique, like an agent can do it for someone else. >> Mh.
2:49:01
>> And so I think that this um discourse on like agents are just going to do all the things.
2:49:07
>> Well, what is different about your setup uh than others? Mhm.
2:49:12
>> You at least have to have something different there in order to not think that you're just going to get the same thing everyone else is going to get. >> Yeah.
2:49:20
>> Even then, I don't know if it's going to get you extraordinary. >> Yeah. Yeah.
2:49:22
We we read a post yesterday um uh that was sort of trying to quantify the the background that leads to taste.
2:49:33
And he was basically saying that like Steve Jobs was incredibly high IQ but also had like varied training data in that he had like been homeless and like traveled the world and like got all these like bizarre experiences.
2:49:44
And I'm wondering if that like resonates with you or you think that it's it's like too difficult to even quantize what makes for a great designer or great taste.
2:49:56
>> You know, I think that the great designers I've met through my life um have come from so many different backgrounds.
2:50:03
You know, a lot of a lot of folks have come through rigorous design training like they just just went through a system. >> Sure.
2:50:09
>> And other people, wow, they went and created, you know, their band poster. Yeah.
2:50:13
>> And that got them into like graphic design and then somehow they like >> showed up at the right uh house and crashed on someone's couch and then they became a product designer and then never went back.
2:50:22
Uh you know, it's like everything in between.
2:50:24
And um there's not really any pattern.
2:50:26
Uh some people have traveled the world and you know gone on the meditation retreats and some people uh are like as buttoned up as you could get and just totally straight laced.
2:50:39
Uh I think that the nice thing about designers is they're so unique uh and there's no pattern matching. >> Yeah.
2:50:46
How do you think about variability of design going forward? Are we at >> so excited?
2:50:54
Are we at a sort of a narrowing period because most people come with just a generic prompt or because I saw your Figma make examples and I was like I didn't even know that was possible.
2:51:05
There were so but I was like I would never have gotten there.
2:51:08
So is are are there going to be tools to maybe help people like be inspired by your background which has a whole bunch of variation on it? I I I don't know. >> Yeah.
2:51:18
I I I'm just I'm just wondering because I mean we were just we were just talking about a company that it feels like the prompt was like copy Jord's website.
2:51:28
Maybe it wasn't maybe it's just coincidence, but it felt like okay like there wasn't uh there wasn't like a twist here where it was like oh just do something completely different that's never been applied to this particular category at least like steal from a different niche instead of from the one that's like very very similar.
2:51:42
Um, but I'm I'm wondering how you're how you're seeing like variation in design uh take take hold in in the world.
2:51:52
>> Yeah, this is the moment I think uh where we're going to see the pendulum go from I mean let's look back right.
2:51:57
So we had the flash era geocities like not saying it was high quality era but there was a lot of variation. >> Yeah.
2:52:07
>> And then iPhone comes out it's like skumorphism and then like Swiss minimalist design. >> Yeah.
2:52:12
And nothing wrong with Swiss minimalist design uh like that is uh a really cool and storied field and uh lineage but it is just one part of the greater aesthetic realm and we can go into such interesting places and try so many interesting patterns on the UX side too.
2:52:32
It's not just UI and the visuals.
2:52:35
It's also the structure, the IIA, the way that people navigate through these things and the interaction patterns.
2:52:42
>> And uh I think there's innovation that's going to be flourishing on all of it.
2:52:47
>> Uh I'm just so excited to see the internet get like really dynamic and um really visual and uh people try things that they just h we haven't seen in a while and and things that people haven't seen ever because I think that that's what it's going to take to stand out now.
2:53:03
There's been so much there like the exponential curve of software is just >> it's taking off in a way that um it's always been exponential but now it's vertical.
2:53:12
We talked about this before and in order to stand out I mean you guys have a show that you're managing to actually break through and get people to be watching this.
2:53:24
um like this is not normal, right?
2:53:27
Like but you have worked very hard, very diligently to create the conditions under which you have this audience.
2:53:34
Well, >> um this is this thing that everyone has to figure out now is how are you going to actually get any attention in a world where there's constantly new information? >> Yeah.
2:53:45
>> Um even beyond America winning the ice hockey match.
2:53:51
So >> yeah, it's I've been I've been thinking about uh uh how Genai is impacting marketing.
2:53:57
It's allowing somebody has like a unique idea. >> Mhm.
2:54:01
>> And then it used to be like you had like at least a month to kind of like run with that unique idea, maybe three months if it was like, you know, a specific campaign or something like that.
2:54:10
And now somebody can literally fast follow you and your idea almost immediately.
2:54:16
So, good ideas always get copied, but they get copied even faster.
2:54:21
Now, another thing that that I was thinking about when you were talking about kind of the explosion of UI, >> uh John had a had a post yesterday that he was sort of jokingly making like a Buzzfeed style listical like five five features that could explode your LLM's usage or something like that.
2:54:36
Uh, and one of them was like caching. Yeah.
2:54:39
And people have had this idea of like generative UIs, UIs that's being made like on the fly.
2:54:45
And I feel like we may get we may like >> have products where that's happening, right?
2:54:53
Like you're in an LLM and a UI is being generated, but it will still make sense.
2:54:58
Like if if there's something that happens a all the time like thousands millions of times a day billions like it does not it really stops making sense to just generate it on the fly.
2:55:08
It's like, hey, this happens a lot.
2:55:09
Let's like make the best version of this and we don't need to like >> post on this actually exactly this topic.
2:55:15
Um, I can send it to you if you want, but the >> um, basically the post was about how the length of time that an artifact will exist for is inversely proportional to the likelihood it's going to be generated.
2:55:29
And I think this is true across media.
2:55:31
So basically like if you are uh writing a book unlikely that you're going to have like AI just generate your book. >> Yeah.
2:55:39
>> Uh >> Amazon book sellers would like a word. >> Yeah.
2:55:44
Just you can just say you don't read adult romantic fiction. We get it. >> Uh no no no.
2:55:50
I think I think I think continue. Yeah.
2:55:54
>> But like I think um you know something that's like a ad that will live for you know a few hours.
2:55:59
Totally >> like yeah probably you're going to have an agent that's going to generate that. >> Totally. >> Yeah.
2:56:05
The difference is like you're making an asset for to respond to with a meme format to news.
2:56:12
>> Makes a lot of sense to like put that through a nano banana or chatbt.
2:56:14
But if you're putting making a billboard, maybe you're still using AI to some degree, but you're going to invest like significantly more time.
2:56:22
If you're going to make a billboard that's going to cost money and it's going to be up for a month and uh you know a lot of people are going to see it, I I think you're going to have a human touch.
2:56:32
Yeah, >> we actually with wee now female weave >> we um >> you know we've been looking a lot at these kinds of use cases and >> you know one thing that just uh we think about a lot is how you know this first prompt but then you actually want to go and have it go through a process where you can transform and mutate it and almost like clay that's being shaped you can treat it like a medium to get to a final output that's amazing.
2:56:55
So like in our ear I earnings call we talked about how uh Nvidia which they've actually done this as a public case study >> they put it the entire making of this uh keynote uh online and they use wei with it and >> what they did was they had all these robots and they needed to basically get to a 20k >> uh image of this whole scene >> like how do you create a 20k image >> with perfect lighting throughout?
2:57:21
I mean it's really tough. >> Yeah.
2:57:24
And so they um had a whole custom pipeline with Weebi they did. >> Yeah.
2:57:28
>> And just like the amount of work to go do that at scale of that pixel density is immense.
2:57:34
And I I thought their workflow was super cool.
2:57:36
So I'll chat with you too. >> I love it.
2:57:39
Uh yeah, please send us that.
2:57:42
Uh and thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us.
2:57:45
>> Thank you for having me. >> Always a good time.
2:57:47
>> We were we were so fired up seeing the results from yesterday.
2:57:50
really a testament to how locked in locked in the team >> uh >> the team is amazing.
2:57:57
>> Yeah, >> they're working so hard and uh they're just it's an incredible team. I'm so grateful. >> Yeah.
2:58:03
>> And I think it's a proof point.
2:58:03
I mean I think that we're we're going to see it over and over again whether it's the taste discourse. >> Yeah.
2:58:08
>> Uh just customers with Figma.
2:58:08
Uh but the design is the differentiator. Like figure it out.
2:58:14
Go learn design, hire a designer.
2:58:16
Otherwise uh you're going to have a hard time. That's my last message.
2:58:21
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to see. Have a great weekend. We'll talk to you soon.
2:58:26
>> Up next, we have Peter Morales from Code Medal and we are kicking off our Lambda Lightning round.
2:58:30
I believe Peter is in the reream waiting room and he's about to be in the TVPN Ultra Dome.
2:58:37
But the Lambda Lightning round has begun. >> Here we go. >> What's happening?
2:58:43
>> Thanks for hopping on. >> How you doing? >> Great. Good. Great to meet you. first time in the show.
2:58:50
Please introduce yourself and the company.
2:58:54
>> Hi, I'm uh Peter Morales.
2:58:54
I'm the CEO of Code Metal.
2:58:56
It's great to meet you guys.
2:58:58
Excited to be on the show. >> Extremely metal name.
2:59:00
I'm sure you've you've heard that before, but I had to do it. I love the name. Uh yeah.
2:59:04
What uh what got you into this?
2:59:07
Talk about your journey, how you got here, and then we'll get into the business. >> Yeah.
2:59:13
So, um at least for me, I started my career in defense.
2:59:15
I'd uh graduated with a physics degree and this was one of the areas that was like hey we want people with that background and uh turns out it was an awesome area to jump into.
2:59:25
You got to apply first principles but then also build systems that had impact and so spent some time developing basically taking software that was written at a high level and bringing it down to low-level hardware systems.
2:59:36
And the reason being was was a big programming nerd but also kind of understood the math and it was this sweet spot of translating software to hardware.
2:59:44
So I got to work on some cool AI algorithms on the F-35 and that kind of inspired me to do more work in that space.
2:59:51
So I went over to MIT Lincoln Laboratory and started doing research in AI.
2:59:55
Got to be one of the founding members of their AI technology group and then ended up going to Microsoft where I was hoping to put all these pieces together and get to build like sort of more for uh commercial industry products that took sort of state-of-the-art algorithms and brought it down to hardware.
3:00:10
And so I was working on the hollow lens and um hoping to learn kind of these like industry best practices and it was the same as defense man.
3:00:16
It was just as like hard to push the latest and greatest down to hardware and you know inspiration behind code metal was there's got to be a better way to do this. >> Makes a lot of sense.
3:00:26
uh before we go further uh I don't know what or how much you can share around uh AI and the F-35 but generally for those types of exquisite systems like how you know back when you were actually doing that work uh where where is AI actually uh be impactful in an exquisite system like that? >> Yeah.
3:00:50
So you got to view it from like our perspective which is like hey we're going to take these at the time kind of really cool algorithms and bring these down to ancient processors.
3:00:58
So exquisite system but whole uh hardware systems to actually get the algorithms running.
3:01:04
And uh this was part of the DARPA arc program.
3:01:08
So it's like adaptive radar countermeasures.
3:01:10
So, the idea being is, hey, I've spotted you in the sky, and I'm going to go ahead and like try and take you out now, but maybe I don't know the complete parameters behind what that system's doing.
3:01:20
And so, I need to kind of on the fly come up with a strategy to defeat um you know, those missile sites on the ground.
3:01:26
And so, applying some different techniques uh to that I can't talk about um was sort of the the gist of the game. >> Fascinating.
3:01:34
Uh give us the quick history on Code Metal then.
3:01:37
when when did you actually start the company?
3:01:40
You're coming on today with some big news, but uh give us give us uh the history until now.
3:01:46
>> Yeah, so it's been a real rocket ship.
3:01:48
We started just two years ago. >> Wow. >> Overnight success. >> Nice.
3:01:53
>> So um yeah, we we've we've had really really great partners.
3:01:56
J2 uh Ventures did our preede round. Cool.
3:01:58
did our preede round. Cool. and um you know their roll your sleeves up kind of like help you founder friendly fund and we jumped right into it at Shield Capital who really understood the dual use mission and then you know once we started seeing this take off and sort of
3:02:13
for us and I'll get into what we do exactly um you know in some of the mission critical industries that we operate um you know Excel jumped in and it's just been sort of you know milestone after another in terms of like you know the real the real problem that we're solving which maybe I should give some background on next. >> Yeah, please. Yeah, go for it. >> Yeah, please. Yeah, go for it.
3:02:31
>> Yeah, there's this explosion, you know, of basically AI generated code and it's great, but you know, you can build an MVP.
3:02:38
>> Um, but I'm sure all of you have been working like with, you know, Claude or or, you know, Open AI and maybe you've asked it like, are you sure?
3:02:44
Or like, you know, is this right? >> Don't make mistakes. >> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Build me a break system. No mistakes. Yeah.
3:02:54
>> You say you're you're 100% sure on this. Yeah.
3:02:57
It's like turns out to be wrong.
3:02:59
>> Take off from the aircraft carrier, you're good to go. >> Yeah. Yeah. No crazy. >> Not crazy. >> So yeah.
3:03:06
So, so the idea here is like we want to answer that question.
3:03:08
So as much as we are an AI company and we're an AR verification company and that means you know inherently these systems are stochastic, right?
3:03:15
And so you can't necessarily rely on AI to check AI.
3:03:17
And so we're leveraging a lot of techniques both from sort of traditional test verification and formal methods to basically prove as you work your way through these hard software challenges that we have done the identical thing that you put in.
3:03:31
And in this case we can't rely on natural language like like writing a prompt is not a good way to define how like a exquisite system needs to operate.
3:03:39
And so we're not like a low code or no code, we're a high code, you know, shop and we focus on basically solving software problems that are really the real tall tent poles in production, namely moving from MVP to production um for some of like the biggest industries and you know defense being obviously one of those based on our backgrounds. >> Very cool.
3:03:57
Uh take us through the funding round. What happened?
3:04:01
>> Yeah, so exciting news to announce today.
3:04:03
Uh we have announced our series B uh 125 million. Boom. Congratulations.
3:04:14
>> And tell us about the new uh president and COO. How'd you meet?
3:04:17
What is he going to be doing?
3:04:19
Why is that an important role to fill?
3:04:22
>> And I think that's the second big announcement for us.
3:04:23
We've been really heads down, a bunch of us um you know, engineering nerds and uh you know, also starting to grow in business folks like Laura Shen.
3:04:33
She joined us from National Security Council, had a background at Uber, and really was sort of like my main teammate on the selling side.
3:04:40
>> Um, but we've grown a lot since then, and we've got, you know, operational needs.
3:04:44
We need leadership on sort of working with some of these um bigger clients that we started to talk to on the technology side.
3:04:50
And yeah, Ryan Aay from uh CEO of Tableau actually joined us as president and COO.
3:04:55
Um, and yeah, he's been awesome already.
3:04:58
he's been awesome already. like we we we learned about him through our network and sort of trying to find the right person who had the right sort of curious attitude wanted to first principles come in and do something actually really new and uh yeah he's been an awesome force just experience working with some of you
3:05:15
know your videos of the world the different partnerships that he's had at the places he's deployed you know he knows our customers and so having him on the team has just been awesome >> assuming you guys execute your road map perfectly which I'm sure you will what does it do to uh hardware development timelines, things like that. Like are we
3:05:32
Like are we is part of Code Metal's job to bring the acceleration that developers are feeling when they're building, you know, enterprise software, maybe they're building, you know, AI uh uh apps, etc.
3:05:48
to bring that to the hardware level.
3:05:50
>> Yeah, you're nailing it.
3:05:50
So like um a lot of these industries have had like you know they're not one generation behind in I want to use AI tools.
3:05:58
they're like many generations behind even what you get if you're like a cloud developer.
3:06:02
So, uh you know I I look at it as three different things.
3:06:05
The first is like getting actual features acting like you're a vertically integrated software hardware company because all of a sudden you can push things directly to hardware and see those things uh run on whatever system.
3:06:17
So that's sort of our our you know rapid development uh vertical.
3:06:21
Then you've got code portability.
3:06:23
So there are huge supply chain problems.
3:06:24
So, you know, we've talked to, for instance, like the army and they've got, you know, hey, we wrote all this code for Nvidia GPUs. Like, it's ours.
3:06:31
Like, we've we've developed it.
3:06:33
Um, we maybe have supply chain issues here.
3:06:36
Can we run on a different piece of hardware?
3:06:38
>> All of a sudden, that's going to gum up the work.
3:06:40
So, we're going have to pay every contractor to rewrite the code.
3:06:42
They could translate that.
3:06:42
That solves programmability.
3:06:44
That solves supply chain issues.
3:06:45
That's another huge area of growth we're seeing.
3:06:48
>> And the final is like legacy systems.
3:06:50
It's like there's been so much investment in code that Dow shall not touch and we just put a box around it and talk to it.
3:06:55
>> Being able to update those and deploy those has been another big area of growth for us. >> It's awesome. Very important work.
3:06:59
Thank you for >> Code Metal is accelerating. >> It's heavy metal. I love it.
3:07:06
>> Customers are accelerating. It's it's very metal. >> Yes.
3:07:08
And congratulations on the funding round. >> Yeah.
3:07:10
Congrats to the whole team.
3:07:11
>> Thanks so much for coming on the show.
3:07:12
>> At this at this rate, I'm sure you'll be back on >> Yeah. >> in Q2.
3:07:16
>> We'll talk to you soon. >> Have fun out there.
3:07:18
>> Have a good one, Peter. >> Cheers, Peter.
3:07:19
Let me tell you about Plaid.
3:07:21
Plaid powers the apps you use to spend, save, borrow, and invest securely bank connecting bank accounts to move money, fight fraud, and improve lending now with AI.
3:07:30
>> Up next, >> we do not >> We have Eric from Free Form joining in just a few minutes, but in the meantime, we can talk about friend of the show.
3:07:41
Well, he sounds like he's here.
3:07:41
Um, so we are going to bring in Eric from Free Form.
3:07:46
He's been on the show before. Welcome back. >> How you doing, Eric? Hey guys.
3:07:48
Yeah, good to see you guys. >> Very cool background.
3:07:50
Uh, kick us off with an explanation.
3:07:54
>> These are all squat racks that we're seeing, right? >> Yeah.
3:07:57
These are just fancy looking things.
3:07:59
You know, they don't really do anything.
3:08:00
Uh, what you're looking at behind us is our next generation uh manufacturing platform we call Skyfall.
3:08:09
>> Um, it'll be the fastest and most automated laser melting platform on the planet.
3:08:13
I think last time we talked Yeah.
3:08:16
>> we had talked about how we were getting ready to design and build this and now we're almost done building it. >> Yeah. Amazing. Uh what else happened? There's some news. >> Oh.
3:08:26
>> Oh man, lots of new lots of amazing news.
3:08:27
We just closed uh a big series B $67 million.
3:08:32
>> You know, we're we're >> we got to hit the dog. >> Amazing. >> Amazing.
3:08:39
We've talked about getting a dog in the office, too. I love it. >> You should. We know.
3:08:42
We know we know we know the finest gongs manufacturers in the country.
3:08:47
So happy to give a reference.
3:08:50
>> Yeah, we'll have to get a you'll have to pass those along to us.
3:08:53
>> We uh it was yeah led by a pandeon uh Michael Lind of Lind Capital uh Nvidia participated Founders Fund, Threshold, Two Sigma Ventures.
3:09:02
We've got an amazing cap table of investors >> with deep expertise in in the uh operational scaling and deep tech space. It's been great. >> Amazing.
3:09:11
Where's the biggest uh source of customer growth coming from?
3:09:13
Like where what products are actually getting made at least that you can talk about? >> Yeah, for sure.
3:09:19
Um I would say there's growth across a lot of different sectors.
3:09:24
>> You know, we're uh demand has outpaced capacity uh which is amazing and we're building a substantial back backlog.
3:09:32
>> Uh yeah, it's it's been it's been fantastic.
3:09:34
Uh obviously, you know, there are a lot of critical industries out there.
3:09:38
there. you know the geopolitical climates uh of the world today where flexible manufacturing is becoming much more more and more important shorting shortening iteration cycles being able to scale up quickly these things are just super important in that space uh
3:09:56
and then you know you're just seeing I think this you know the the the advancements in AI are are driving um you know advances in engineering in design in access to information that is accelerating product design which then people you know want to build faster and scale faster. So
3:10:14
So there's all these kind of forces that are driving advancement in all sorts of different industries where or problems that they're these industries are looking to advance manufacturing technologies to solve.
3:10:27
>> Talk about uh aerospace or or or maybe uh building airplanes generally.
3:10:31
Uh, I imagine that we're not using free form to make the fuselage, but are we talking about like, you know, the seat belt buckles or, uh, blades inside of a jet engine?
3:10:44
Like, at what at what scale are we operating here? >> Yeah, for sure. Great question.
3:10:49
Um, no, we're not making the fuselages.
3:10:51
I think, >> uh, you know, we're not a hammer looking for a nail. >> Sure.
3:10:58
>> Um, >> or a hammer looking for a face. >> That's right. That's right.
3:11:04
uh the you know we're generally talking about parts that are of the scale you know the the platform behind us is roughly 600 mm x 600 mm by a meter tall >> so something that can fit into that envelope obviously we can make extremely
3:11:19
high precision things we can make them out of virtually any material any metal >> um and and you know intricate features big big features small features we can do just about anything >> any metal you know what I'm thinking thinking coffee maker made purely out of lead. >> Leadbased coffee maker.
3:11:36
>> Leadbased coffee maker.
3:11:38
>> Yeah, there's a very viral coffee maker trying to be free of plastics.
3:11:40
And so, John, >> I mean, a lead based coffee maker would be free of plastic. >> Yeah, clearly not.
3:11:47
>> It wouldn't have any plastic. >> No, no problem. >> No problem. >> Yeah.
3:11:49
>> Uh, how much have you scaled up the team since we last chatted?
3:11:52
Where where where's that going? >> Yeah, it's fantastic.
3:11:55
And I want to add on to my answer to your last question, too.
3:11:59
We're flying um mission critical parts on multiple Frontier programs today.
3:12:05
We're at we are shipping out of the factory many hundreds of parts per month that are going on, you know, very important uh uh uh vehicles and and systems. >> Cool.
3:12:16
>> Um so to the team question, uh we're about 60 people, 55 60 people now.
3:12:20
So I think when we spoke last we were maybe 35 >> 40ish.
3:12:26
Um, and we're trying to hire about 100 people over the next, you know, 12 months. >> Wow.
3:12:33
>> So, you know, we are >> And where where are those jobs going to be?
3:12:36
Where are those jobs going to be based?
3:12:37
All in the same place or are you actually expanding? >> Here in Hawthorne. >> Cool. >> Amazing. >> Yeah. For now. Yep. >> Very great. >> Maybe.
3:12:43
Uh, on the on the part side, like what what's the what uh tons of demand, but where why are customers actually choosing you guys?
3:12:53
Is there kind of a speed up around kind of like order timelines, things like that?
3:13:00
Like where where uh what's making customers the most happy?
3:13:06
>> Yeah, I think you know, honestly, we've cracked the code.
3:13:08
I mean, the the world the the >> here for cracking codes. >> We love cracking.
3:13:14
>> When we when we when we talked before, um it's just interesting, you know, how far we've come in in a relatively short period of time.
3:13:22
uh you know I think the rigidity and inflexibility of manufacturing traditional manufacturing systems uh is just no longer acceptable and you you've got this massive advancement in the digital world that's occurring these transformations that are happening and the way we make stuff hasn't really changed in in decades not not fundamentally >> and so you know I think customers are looking to design more and more advanced things.
3:13:52
They're looking to control physics in new and different ways.
3:13:54
You know, you can I saw over my my decade plus at SpaceX, you can design, you know, the most advanced things, but the real problem is when you go to make it. Yeah.
3:14:05
>> And you know, closing this gap is becoming really important.
3:14:07
And you know, what do companies want to do?
3:14:09
They want to focus on what they're good at.
3:14:11
And the code we've cracked is that we we are the most successful and fastest growing company in the advanced manufacturing space that leverages printing ever.
3:14:20
And because we have developed uh we we've solved all of the major problems that were fundamentally preventing the technology from being scalable.
3:14:32
>> And so that's you know we're no longer in the proof of concept phase where we're proving you know the the theory of it.
3:14:38
We are this capital is being deployed to massively expand capacity to meet the the demand that is we're building backlog and is continuing to accelerate. >> Amazing. >> Last question for me.
3:14:49
What's the biggest lesson that you learned from SpaceX that you find useful applying today?
3:14:58
>> Oh man, I I think you asked me a similar question last time. There's so many lessons.
3:15:02
I'm so fortunate to have had such a an amazing experience.
3:15:06
>> But maybe a different answer now.
3:15:06
Maybe a different answer now than when we last chatted.
3:15:10
You know, you've the the codes have been cracked. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
3:15:14
I mean, I think that what comes to mind is, you know, the the relentless uh pursuit of the thing that you know is possible.
3:15:23
You just you have to fundamentally believe in what you're doing.
3:15:28
It has to be based on you know first principles like this is a possible thing and then I am just we are going to relentlessly pursue it until we get it across the finish line and I think that's why we've been so successful here you know combined with the willingness to it's not about how hard something is or if I know how to do it or I don't.
3:15:51
>> If I if I don't know how to do it but it needs to be done I've got to figure it out.
3:15:54
And we're so vertically integrated across everything we do from software to machine learning to advanced compute to electronics to the physical platforms that we build ourselves that this is something I don't think there's any other company out there that is like us on on this front.
3:16:12
We don't use third party products at all.
3:16:14
Nowhere in the stack top top to bottom. >> Crazy.
3:16:18
>> Well, thank you so much for taking the time to come chat with us.
3:16:21
Congratulations on the >> progress.
3:16:22
Congrats to the whole team on all the all the progress.
3:16:24
I love to hear that you guys are shipping parts >> in Southern California. Let's go.
3:16:30
>> I I like the the Hawthorne Gardinia Gundo Serious >> Long Beach rivalry on just who can produce the most mass for the world is is fantastic. >> Yeah.
3:16:41
Well, have a great rest of your day. We'll talk to you soon.
3:16:44
>> Thanks again for having me again. >> See you.
3:16:47
>> Let me tell you about Phantom Cash.
3:16:47
fund your wallet without exchanges or middlemen and spend with the Phantom Card.
3:16:52
Up next, we have Lubisha Basik from Talis. Welcome to the show. How are you doing? >> What's going on? >> I'm doing well. How are you?
3:17:02
>> Did I Did I get even close to the name?
3:17:04
>> First name, second name close. >> Okay, give it to us. >> Bus. Okay. >> Well, powerful.
3:17:12
>> First time on the show.
3:17:12
Please introduce yourself and the company. >> Uh, hey.
3:17:16
So you introduced my name uh I'm a >> kind of a longtime I guess chip designer more than anything else. >> Yeah.
3:17:26
>> Uh my latest endeavor is Talis.
3:17:26
What we do at Talos is uh >> you know how I'm I'm sure both of you have used chat GPT right like and uh >> when you ask a question >> you see that like you know words are kind of rendering on the screen it takes a while. >> Yeah.
3:17:42
>> Uh if you use it a lot it costs a fair amount of money right.
3:17:44
So for people that uh uh that run code through it or or something like that.
3:17:48
So what what we do is we basically make those responses show up in milliseconds. Yeah.
3:17:54
>> So that you can ask uh you know you can ask whatever you want and you get like 100,000 words it pops up in a split second immediately.
3:18:01
>> The web UI is slower than um you know than than our chips for the most part.
3:18:06
>> Uh and it's also kind of close to zero cost.
3:18:09
So the idea was >> slower. That's crazy.
3:18:11
>> Super fast, super cheap.
3:18:11
You're like, "This HD, this JavaScript just doesn't load as fast as the tokens." What a world to be in. >> That's happening. That's happening today.
3:18:20
>> Yeah, >> that's happening today.
3:18:21
And I guess the way we do this is kind of the opposite of what your previous guest was saying.
3:18:26
So, >> u you know, everybody says you should be flexible.
3:18:29
We say uh you should be really inflexible. >> Okay.
3:18:33
>> But you should be hardcore. >> Okay. >> Hardcore.
3:18:36
>> So, yeah, take us through the the technical story here.
3:18:38
technical story here. there is this only possible post transformer poste model like how much are you calcifying and what technical decisions do you have to lock in before you went into tape out >> so we're not so much you know focused on
3:18:54
a given model type so whatever model is popular today it's transformers with if it was something else uh very likely most likely we would have no problem consuming it uh really the the main step is that we take that model and we basically cast it straight into silicon. >> Oh,
3:19:13
>> Oh, >> it's not a it's not a piece of software.
3:19:15
It doesn't run on a processor.
3:19:15
U you know, if at least I as a kid like I never imagined AI as a as an executable like Excel or >> or Word, right?
3:19:24
Like it was the general mindset was like Dave from Space Odyssey, right?
3:19:28
Like or the the hell from Space Odyssey, right?
3:19:31
like and uh so we're kind of you know going to that idea and basically making models straight into hardware once we make the chip.
3:19:40
It's it is a model that's that's basically uh that's all it is.
3:19:42
If you want a new model you have to chuck this one out.
3:19:48
>> Again it's kind of a throwback to um to the past like where it's kind of like video game consoles. >> Yeah.
3:19:54
>> You know there's a receptacle uh you unplug a cartridge, you plug in another cartridge and you have a new model.
3:20:00
>> What are the different tradeoffs?
3:20:00
When you go to the fab, are you thinking wafer scale, large die?
3:20:05
How do you think about all the tradeoffs and what is available at modern fabs?
3:20:13
>> So our approach is that u you know we we basically made this one trade which is commitment or flexibility for kind of everything else. Mhm.
3:20:21
>> Given that we tried super hard to make everything else dead simple, which means no interposers, no 3D stacking, no super high speed IO, no HVM.
3:20:33
>> Uh the chips are pretty big, but they're really really simple. >> Mhm.
3:20:36
>> Uh they plug into a normal server.
3:20:36
They don't consume a lot of power.
3:20:40
>> You can cool them by air.
3:20:40
You don't really need, you know, you don't need anything but old school data centers. >> Yeah.
3:20:45
So it's essentially we we made it such that there's there's this one you know sort of compromise that we make you take. >> Yeah.
3:20:53
>> Having taken that it's better at everything and it's way simpler than anything else. >> Yeah.
3:20:57
>> What is the what's the sales process and look like for this?
3:21:00
And what what are your customer relationships actually going to look like in practice?
3:21:04
Are you uh I imagine you know you you see massive uh progress on the model side.
3:21:13
every day there's a new model.
3:21:13
Are you like how are you going to scale up kind of like physical production to to sort of match that progress or is that the wrong way to think about it?
3:21:25
>> Uh you know it's it's hard to be sure.
3:21:27
So so I'll I'll answer all all your questions briefly.
3:21:29
So on on the first one our default plan is that we're we're bringing out a like a inference service and we're going to let users uh basically get to tokens directly.
3:21:39
uh obviously we we aspire to to having large customers like the big AI labs or or hyperscalers.
3:21:48
or hyperscalers. It's just that you know like if your default plan involves closing you know what have you Microsoft it's it's a bad default plan right like it's not an easy it's it's not an easy step so it's not that we're not doing it but we're we're doing something that's
3:22:02
going to bring us to customers and allow iteration >> uh and it's fully within our hands right like it it doesn't involve a big uncontrollable step uh to to your second question um we might so so our approach starts winning at about 3 months of holding the model. Even if you swap them
3:22:19
Even if you swap them every 3 months, we still win.
3:22:23
>> At a year, we win by a lot.
3:22:23
So, at this level, it's really hard to call, but I I'm I feel strongly that there's applications that can certainly tolerate having the same model for a half a year at a time.
3:22:36
>> Yeah, we exactly those are I don't I don't know.
3:22:38
>> Yeah, someone was saying yesterday that GPT 3.
3:22:41
5 still gets like a shocking amount of >> so much money. Yeah, >> it's crazy. So the other day GPT 4. 0 was retired. Yeah.
3:22:51
>> There was a bunch of u sort of negative remarks on the internet.
3:22:54
People are sad and angry that it's gone and so on.
3:22:55
Um so I mean we definitely want to be at the leading edge.
3:23:00
Uh we think that it's actually quite doable.
3:23:02
U but in the end like where the line is where sort of people are comfortable with the commitment we need.
3:23:10
Uh time's going to tell right like >> Yeah.
3:23:13
How much is AI accelerating the translation from the model weights or the model architecture into an actual uh chip design?
3:23:27
>> So in our first generation, not a lot at all.
3:23:30
We use it but but lightly.
3:23:32
>> Uh for our second generation, we're actually u trying our best to maximize the amount of stuff that AI does versus what what people do.
3:23:41
So we're we're aggressively moving that boundary >> and the cutting edge models have gotten good enough that they can really help a lot.
3:23:50
>> Like it's we started about two years ago.
3:23:52
Uh that wasn't the case back then. >> Mhm.
3:23:56
>> It's a new phenomenon. >> Yeah, makes sense.
3:23:58
>> Uh kind of a wild card.
3:23:58
How are you thinking about uh what we expect is a explosion of new uh AI hardware devices?
3:24:08
We're hearing about pins and inear things.
3:24:12
Is this something that um could end up in in a consumer electronic device at some point or is it better suited for more of these like data center or or kind of like enterprise applications?
3:24:26
>> So I think it's it's suited to both.
3:24:26
>> So I think it's it's suited to both. Um and but we're initially targeting data centers and we made these big chips for that reason as opposed to something that's >> smaller form factor could fit in a device >> really mainly driven by the fact that
3:24:40
this kind of avalanche of of pin and and such has been announced now you know it's been 5 years away for kind of multiple sets of five years potentially right >> yeah let's not talk about VR >> yeah yeah and and if and you can obviously make a hardware device uh that can deliver AI without having the chip locally. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.
3:25:03
>> Well, uh Jordan, anything else?
3:25:04
>> No, let's hit the gong. >> Okay. Yes. Tell us about the news. How much did you raise?
3:25:09
>> Uh we um actually the the special thing about today is that we've launched our our first product to the public, right?
3:25:15
We we did raise some money that we didn't announce.
3:25:17
Actually, we raised a a bunch of money.
3:25:21
We we hit like kind of nirvana where we can live off of uh >> off of interest like you know 220 million dollars raised total.
3:25:32
>> But what we're really proud of is that we spend money super slowly and that we we really are living off the interest right now. >> That's amazing. Well, congratulations.
3:25:39
>> Where where can people go?
3:25:39
Uh >> do you have a >> chatjimmy.
3:25:43
ai if you want to demo it. Yes. Right. >> That's that's right. >> chatjimmy.
3:25:47
ai send you guys the link if you chat.
3:25:49
I I think you're It's uh It's Llama 3. 18B. >> That's right. Yeah. >> Baked into a chip. Super fast. >> Quick. >> It's fast. >> Yeah. >> I love it. >> It is instant.
3:26:02
Faster than it's almost seems faster than my uh eyes can process. >> That's the point.
3:26:08
I think that's the future we're shooting for.
3:26:11
>> Well, congratulations. >> Awesome.
3:26:13
It was great to great to meet you. Come back. Congrats to the team.
3:26:18
>> We'll talk to you soon. Cheers. >> Goodbye.
3:26:20
Uh, are there any other stories you'd like to go through, Jordy? We could talk about F1.
3:26:26
We could talk about semi analysis.
3:26:29
We could talk about the AI dock or we could talk about all that tomorrow.
3:26:33
>> Uh, the AI doc, we're working on getting uh the team from there on. >> So, we can skip that. >> Okay.
3:26:41
>> Uh, yeah, Dylan Dylan Patel is allegedly >> mulling raising a venture fund.
3:26:44
Sounds like he invested some size into Fluid Stack.
3:26:49
He's >> been making money.
3:26:50
Yeah, this is funny because uh this is framed as a scoop. Uh and I suppose it is.
3:26:55
But uh they were openly discussing this on a podcast like a month ago.
3:26:59
So uh it's uh it's it's not that big of news, but it is exciting. We love Dylan Patel.
3:27:05
We love some analysis and uh it'll be very interesting to see what they do.
3:27:09
what they do. I think that there was some uh there was some uh mention I mean they weren't talking about it in fine detail but just uh discussion over whether or not this would actually be a full venture fund or if it would be more of an RAIA more public private um there's a variety of different strategies and and Dylan knows a lot of
3:27:29
different folks in the ecosystem obviously works with a lot of hedge funds and so um there's a lot of opportunity up and down the stack not just in the private markets um and every venture fund has sort of a strategy when you have this level of uh analysis, rigor, data, understanding the markets, uh there's a whole bunch of different ways to express that financially. And so
3:27:48
And so I'm very very excited to see what happens.
3:27:52
And good luck to the semiannas team out on the fundraising trail.
3:27:57
>> Well, uh last but not least, uh a new California law, which is FIPVCC, is forcing VCs to ask portfolio companies about their sexual orientation, disabilities, and more.
3:28:07
also can be reported to the state.
3:28:09
Uh the team at Angelus built a new system to help funds and angelist comply without ever seeing individual founder responses.
3:28:15
This seems uh very important to preserve founder privacy everywhere.
3:28:20
We've decided to make the system available to any fund for free regardless of who they work with for fund admin.
3:28:25
So obviously a bunch of funds are running on angelist and we'll have this built in.
3:28:29
But uh important uh that everybody be able to use this.
3:28:34
Seems like um >> I I remember when this law was originally being >> proposed. Is it actually pass? >> Sounds like it. >> Oh, okay.
3:28:43
>> Uh uh which is surprising, but >> nothing is surprising in in California.
3:28:49
>> Well, Door Dash is surprising to me.
3:28:51
Over a billion orders a month.
3:28:53
>> Well, soon they're doing 900 million. >> Oh, 900 million. Okay. >> 900.
3:28:57
So, let's hit the gong for Oh, that was a Yeah, I can hear it.
3:29:01
You probably can't hear it at home.
3:29:04
>> Lock in Door Dash, folks. Keep going.
3:29:07
Call us when you hit a billion. That will impress me.
3:29:10
No, I was listening to Keith Boy uh talk to uh who Eric Newcomer and he was saying like his whole Door Dash thesis was just the Door Dash was the get food button or the I'm hungry button on your phone and then there's a whole bunch of hard work that you needed to do to actually deliver food.
3:29:26
But the consumer impulse was just I'm hungry and you push the button and you get food.
3:29:30
It has worked to the tune of 93 million orders per month.
3:29:34
I wonder if there's more around Christmas.
3:29:36
Do they always see a December bump? No, not really. Huh.
3:29:40
December was a good was a good month for them. They jumped.
3:29:42
They actually jumped in March in 2021. Um I don't know.
3:29:47
Something happened, but they >> Have they ever had a down month? >> I don't know.
3:29:53
>> They they had a rough time in September of 21 coming out of COVID. It went from 345 to 347.
3:29:58
Barely any growth, but I don't think they've ever had a truly down. This is quarter.
3:30:04
This is quarterly, I guess.
3:30:06
Um, wait, is this Oh, no.
3:30:09
This is monthly reporting, but you see every four months.
3:30:10
So, >> Ben is getting us fired up.
3:30:13
He says three and a half hours. Let's go. >> Let's go.
3:30:17
>> We're not quite at the three and a half hour mark. We got two minutes left. Two minutes left.
3:30:21
There was one more story we didn't get to.
3:30:22
Flu permanently halts redemptions at private credit fund aimed at retail investors.
3:30:27
People have been talking about this as kind of like a layman moment, but I looked at the size of the fund. It's it's 1.
3:30:35
7 billion >> fund for ants.
3:30:39
>> It's a it's a private credit fund for ants. >> Interesting. >> Uh no, not not great.
3:30:42
I remember we talked about this story last year.
3:30:44
They said they they like it kind of leaked that they were considering halting redemptions and they were like actually don't worry we're not. >> Yeah.
3:30:53
>> And then now they actually have.
3:30:53
So not uh not >> what do you think lock in meant lock getting locked in.
3:30:59
You just got locked into your investments. No more redemptions. It's the great lock in.
3:31:05
>> They they >> again don't call it a code red.
3:31:05
Call it the great lock in. You're good.
3:31:07
Don't call it we're we're suspending redemptions.
3:31:10
Calling call it >> a Baja blast.
3:31:12
We're gonna Baja blast your returns. >> Yes, exactly. To the stratosphere.
3:31:18
>> Anyways, folks, thanks for hanging out with us today. >> Plant the bomb. >> Let's do it. >> Plant the bomb. Great show. A lot of fun.
3:31:24
Always fun having Sager and Jetty on the show.
3:31:27
He is >> really gets people riled up. >> He's a professional.
3:31:30
He's just a professional.
3:31:31
And so he shows up, sounds good, looks good, great takes back and forth.
3:31:36
Joe >> definitely our probably our most controversial guest just judging the by the chat.
3:31:40
But we have a lot of fun. Yeah, been a lot of fun.
3:31:42
Anyway, leave us five stars on Apple Podcast and Spotify, and we'll see you tomorrow. >> Have the best. >> Nice work, brothers.
3:31:50
I'll see you on the next one.