0:00
And this same lesson has been taught to me in many ways through drugs or sex.
Search this video
0:05
Economic success is emulating social power.
0:08
It's the idea of oh, but like what what it can we infer from the wealth of Kylie Jenner, is it? Kylie, yeah. Kylie Jenner.
0:20
He's an actor, activist, comedian, and someone who I truly believe is a amazing thinker in the realms of philosophy, spirituality, politics, and life.
0:28
I'm so excited to dive in to his fascinating life, which I believe he's had one of the most fascinating ones.
0:35
He is none other than Russell Brand. Russell.
0:40
Thank you again for that introduction. I was enjoying that.
0:42
Yeah, well, you deserved it. Like I said last time.
0:45
Thank you for doing this again.
0:47
It's great to be back with you.
0:48
Congratulations on your podcast. Thank you. I appreciate that.
0:50
It was wonderful being on yours. Yeah. This is the world now.
0:53
Just people podcasting each other.
0:56
I suppose ultimately there'll be a time when no human interaction is not subsequently released as a podcast. Yeah.
1:03
Well, I think that's what happened, right?
1:04
People had amazing conversations and then they thought, "I wish we could have shared that with someone." Now. And now they do.
1:11
So, I remember last time we were together, it's actually been just a year since I interviewed you for recovery, which was awesome.
1:17
I was looking at that the other day, which was beautiful to be with you on the the feedback we got for that live broadcast last year.
1:22
I think like over 2 and 1/2 million people saw it, and the amount of energy we had for it was absolutely amazing.
1:27
I was very impressed, and for a while afterwards I couldn't do an internet video of that guy.
1:32
I'm press like, press let me see a little heart, smiley face.
1:36
But then I couldn't keep up the enthusiasm, Jay. That is why we need you.
1:41
Well, yeah, I'm not doing it this time because it's not live, so I can't ask for that.
1:44
But we were together in Ireland So, the last time we were together we were in Ireland on a beach because you were shooting a movie, and you were kind enough to invite us into your trailer while you were getting your makeup done and wearing your outfits.
1:55
Tell us a little bit that.
1:55
We were doing I was doing a children's film.
1:57
It was called Four Kids and It's.
1:58
And now everything I do in my life is weighed up against is it going to be as enjoyable to me as doing my daughter's bath time where I get to spend good quality time with them, mucking around, and it's one of my favorite things to do.
2:15
So, I only really do work if it doesn't get in the way of parenting.
2:18
I've been like, you know, I've done had a long period of my life where I wasn't a parent.
2:21
And now, so parenting, that's it for me, you know?
2:25
Like, at this stage, there might be a bit where I get bored of them.
2:26
I'm considering that as a possibility.
2:28
So, like, doing that film out there Radhanath Swami, a friend and teacher to both of us, was kind enough to come visit us in County Wicklow, Ireland, also to do the podcast as usual.
2:39
Heaven forbid that a conversation should occur without being recorded and subsequently downloaded.
2:46
So, you know, on the last day I was writing about it, funnily enough, today cuz I've like written a book on mentorship, and Radhanath Swami is one of the mentors that I write about in that book.
2:56
And I wrote about that occasion and how strange it was to be in a trailer with you, a couple of other guys, Sandipani, our mutual friend, and Radhanath Swami, and of course my own father.
3:06
I'm thinking how unusual that felt, those sort of those worlds colliding, and Radhanath Swami telling those stories from the Bhagavad Gita.
3:15
You know, and in a sense, those kind of those kind of encounters are demonstrative of a new life where my past is coalescing with my future, where different groups of my friends are starting to meet.
3:27
In the past, things were quite atomized for me.
3:30
I was quite insular and solitary and quite I don't know.
3:34
I'm still quite protective, I suppose, but in a different way.
3:35
So, now, you know, if I do make a film, then I'll make a film where I can bring my kids.
3:41
You know, if I do do podcasts, I try to do it in a way that doesn't disrupt, you know, my connection to my family.
3:48
So, things have changed, and that little experience there of making that kids film and and the encounter that you and I had there in a sense is emblematic of this transition.
3:56
Yeah, it was an amazing conversation.
3:58
And it's it's fascinating to see that transition.
4:01
Because did you ever Did you always dream of being a father?
4:02
Was that always a step you wanted to take?
4:04
Did you want to have Yes. children? Yes.
4:08
I like almost as soon as I stopped being a child, I wanted children.
4:10
I really like children a lot.
4:12
When I was sort of like 15 or 16, I like I There's something about them.
4:18
I suppose what it is is that the unstructured connection that they have, which most evidently is observable through play.
4:29
The way kids play for me makes me very very happy.
4:31
That you can just invent what your situation is.
4:34
And my daughter now is just reaching that age where you can That's what she'll do.
4:38
"Oh, no, Lucy's stuck in the mud."
4:41
You know, even know Lucy is.
4:43
"Let's get Lucy out of the mud. You hold on my pajama. You hold my pajamas."
4:47
We have to get Lucy out of the mud, but no sooner have we got Lucy out of the mud, then she's in a tree.
4:50
This kid's got no respect for reality, the way that reality is configured according to material situations.
4:57
For her, Lucy is always on the precipice of being stuck in the mud or caught in a tree.
5:02
And it's our duty to get them back.
5:04
I feel some of the storylines might be being plagiarized from the Disney version of Winnie the Pooh.
5:09
Although the central character Lucy seems to be her own construction, unless that has been taken from Ben and Holly, the kids show.
5:18
Either way, it's a kind of hip-hop editorializing of various media into her own imaginary narratives.
5:24
They They say that hip-hop were the first post-modern art form.
5:30
And now children's play is this wonderful collage of influence, and I want in.
5:34
Do you still have play yourself?
5:36
Is there something that you feel because I feel as adults, a lot of people I know I spoke to the founder of ClassPass, who's a good friend of mine, and she was talking about how as an CEO, she really believes that one of the things we lose as adults is play. Mhm.
5:48
And you just brought that up and I'm just thinking that reconnection of play in our own lives.
5:54
Is that something that you have a form of? Yes.
5:56
I have like firstly I will say this that a very good friend of mine Emma Kenny who you should have on your podcast said that sex is adult play.
6:07
That in a healthy relationship your sexuality should have an air of playfulness in it.
6:10
So that's something that I think about and aspire to.
6:14
Elsewhere in my life in my friendships like I like I've always enjoyed people.
6:20
I guess that's why I like comedians is like people that you can start talking about stuff and you sort of know that what you're talking about is not really real or something.
6:25
But you're just inhabiting a role.
6:27
Of course I'm a performer as well and a performance requires play. It requires play.
6:32
Now from you know you and I getting to know each other more you have a lot of spirit.
6:39
You are running deep you know.
6:40
So you have a kind of a sort of a very what seems to me a very natural monastic sage-like quality you know.
6:47
I'm not saying that that doesn't mean that play is accessible to you. I'm sure it is.
6:54
But for me coming from the background that I do of a performer and an entertainer play is vital. The trick's that energy.
7:00
The energy of none of this is real.
7:03
Don't take this stuff seriously.
7:04
You know it's found in a lot of deities that I like you know sort of like in Krishna for example there's a lot of mischief yeah. Mischief. I like that stuff.
7:14
Now mischief is a risk because we live in a orderly material world with regulation.
7:18
But I suppose the idea of play is you're not hurting no one. Yeah.
7:22
I wanted to talk to you about a few things today and one of one of the first things was and I don't know if you know this.
7:26
One of the most Googled thing is is Russell Brand married?
7:29
And and obviously I know Laura your wife.
7:31
She's she's wonderful and amazing. That's me Googling that. Yeah. Is he? Making sure.
7:37
Who's this person in the bed?
7:40
Where are these credit CARD BILLS COMING FROM?
7:44
You You making sure I'm just checking in with yourself.
7:45
But it's it's so fascinating to me because and I and I and I meant what I said earlier, you've lived an incredibly fascinating life already and you continue to do, but every part of your life's been so well documented by the media.
8:00
And I I use the word well loosely, but your life has been documented by the media.
8:04
And and how is that felt for you?
8:04
Like to How is that felt from an experiential point of view?
8:09
I feel like today, the reason why I ask it is people are listening, my audience, people are just struggling with their lives being documented by their own social media profile.
8:17
Like people are struggling with that, but you've had your life documented by people you don't even know.
8:21
It can make you feel a kind of distinction and separation from yourself.
8:26
Like part of you gets taken away.
8:28
In fact, when I first got famous, I was friends and still am friends with Jonathan Ross, the broadcaster, the English broadcaster.
8:37
And he said, "You lose something when you become famous and you never get it back."
8:40
And what it is is a kind of privacy and a sense of who you are.
8:44
Now, at the beginning of my life in public I didn't have any regard for privacy because I didn't I wasn't that kind of person, you know, I was I liked being famous. I liked performing.
9:00
I was single and so I didn't regard myself in that kind of way.
9:03
It's how it feels like is I the illusion sometimes become more powerful than the truth, but I perhaps everyone experiences that.
9:13
In a sense, fame is simply an amplification of what we all experience.
9:17
We all know what it's like to be gossiped about.
9:19
We all know what it's like to have people not like you and then attack you.
9:22
You know, and in fame you experience these things in amplification.
9:28
So in a what in a way it's very alien, but in another way it's very ordinary.
9:33
Just by degree is different from the normal experience.
9:38
So, in time at times it's been frustrating because I sometimes you want to control your own narrative and you want to control what other people think of you, which obviously is impossible.
9:48
And so, it's at times been quite challenging because I've wanted to go, "No, that's not what I said. That's not what I meant. I meant this."
9:53
And in my journey as a person with a public profile has been one of relinquishing that control, accepting the terms of fame, accepting that I'm here now, and trying to renegotiate so that I I can be somehow useful in this role.
10:08
I I think you're one of the few people who can probably say that authentically because I was saying this to you earlier and I said I'd bring it up.
10:15
I was watching the start of your new Netflix show.
10:18
That's about to come out in the That's coming out in December, so it will have come out by the time this comes out, but but in that show you start off and you talk about how you realize you you make a great joke about how Actually, why don't you Why don't you explain it?
10:31
It's probably better you explain.
10:33
You make a great joke about how, you know, you're out here to send a message, etc.
10:36
, and then also to monetize. Oh, yeah, yeah. I do.
10:39
I say that it's very difficult to make a living in media if you spend all your time criticizing all media.
10:44
Like, I learned that I was using what Like, if you use your position of fame to attack the way that fame and celebrity functions, then eventually you're going to cut the head off the serpent.
10:56
The serpent's like going to stop I mean, in in the end you can't ride that forever.
11:01
So, there was a It was a sort of curious time because I suppose we've talked about mental health, and in a way what happened to me is I reached a point of total disillusionment because I reached saturation in terms of my own In a way, my own expectations of celebrity.
11:19
I would have liked There were points in my life where I would have liked to have been as famous as, say, Tom Cruise or as famous as Will Smith or as famous as you know, I don't know, famous famous people.
11:30
But like when I was very close into that world, it found it very something that in it made me recoil and not at ease with myself.
11:41
Not that I made a deliberate choice to leave, but in this like it's created a kind of spasm in me that I didn't have much control over.
11:50
Subsequent to that, I experienced a sort of death.
11:52
A kind of death of what I thought I wanted.
11:55
Even though, Jay, I was never you know, I'm not a bloody idiot.
11:59
So, I knew that fame wouldn't entirely, excuse me grabbing a tissue.
12:03
I sort of knew that fame would not be um I knew it wouldn't work.
12:08
I've just got me old uh plastic bag here.
12:10
This is where I keep my Is that the baby bag or the That was actually just mine.
12:12
I didn't say the baby bag. I said the bloody thing. It looks too organized. I know. Well, let me tell you.
12:20
I'm not the genius behind the construction of that device.
12:21
Um so, I knew even when I was little, even when I was really little, I thought I want to be famous.
12:27
If I'm famous, I won't be me anymore. I would have escaped me.
12:28
But I also knew that it definitely wouldn't work as a technique.
12:33
But then it's still sort of weird when it actually happens.
12:38
And this same lesson has been taught to me in many ways through drugs or sex or you know, money. A lot lots of ways.
12:44
Not that it's been as I know there are people that are more extremely famous, more extremely wealthy, have more sex.
12:49
I know all of those kind of things, but for me uh I suppose I'm like an idiot student of spirituality.
12:57
That is like, "Well, I'll just really will check that sex doesn't work again."
13:01
Like and then before going in, I definitely, definitely doesn't. It definitely doesn't.
13:06
It's definitely not the answer.
13:07
But these things are seductive for a reason. Temptation is not ugly. Temptation is beautiful. Absolutely.
13:11
And you said you you wrote your book Mentors, which I'm super excited about.
13:16
Because tell us a bit about the few people that are in there and how they've helped you maybe come to terms with some of these things that you just mentioned there. Who are those mentors?
13:23
What are the topics that vary across that book?
13:27
Once I met this guy, I was hanging out with Puff Daddy of all people. Okay.
13:29
And this guy that was mates with Puff Daddy, he was called Tracy. He was pretty cool.
13:35
And he used this metaphor which I've not used in the book and I realized now that perhaps I should have done.
13:38
He goes, "Life's like a computer game.
13:40
You get trapped on different levels and until you can master that level, you'll be trapped on it."
13:45
He goes, "You obviously was trapped on the drug level, then you get trapped on the sex level.
13:47
You've got to transcend these different levels."
13:50
Now for me, these levels are overseen or you're helped to ferry across by mentors.
13:55
When I was a drug addict, I met Chip Somers and Chip Somers was the first person I met that was clean.
14:00
He was a worse drug addict than I'd been.
14:04
He would been in prison for um robbery and stuff.
14:07
I was never never served a custodial sentence.
14:09
So when I heard this guy talking about I don't take drugs anymore, even though he there were lots of things that different, he's an atheist, I'm not an atheist, I was able to sort of somehow download from him or he were able to transfer to me like any good teacher will, something that was latent within me but I was not in a position to realize.
14:25
So he was the first mentor that I had.
14:28
I made the decision, this is like at first I didn't know it was possible.
14:32
Like you say, you can't be what you can't see.
14:34
I didn't know it was possible to not be a drug addict.
14:35
I thought that was the solution.
14:37
Then I saw people not being a drug addict and then I was willing to do what he said.
14:42
In this case, 12-step recovery which I believe is a good solution for anyone with addiction issues or anyone that wants to change themselves actually.
14:49
Then like um you know, then I got kind of caught up on other stuff, the sexual behavior, the obsession with fame, pleasure, individualism.
14:57
And then I met a series of different mentors including spiritual like you know, devoted spiritual people such as Radhanath Swami who we both know, Amma, the great Indian saint.
15:07
Um and uh then like people that are more what do I want to say, parochial like my mentor Jimmy who's like a very successful producer and manager of a production company who's got four kids, been married a long time, doesn't drink or take drugs like me, hasn't for longer than I have, who's quite a solid person from a background I identify with, uh who's intelligent and lucid.
15:33
So, like I watch this person and it's very practical mentorship.
15:37
It's like I if I'm at the point of a decision, like I'm going to do this.
15:41
Jimmy, I'm thinking of doing this. Do not do this.
15:43
I do what he says instead of So, I'm already on a different path now.
15:48
I'm I'm using a consciousness that is not my own.
15:51
I'm accessing external consciousness.
15:52
So, in a way, I know it's a bloody simple.
15:55
It's just following the advice.
15:56
But, we don't have, you know, we come from similar worlds, similar backgrounds.
16:00
We don't have mentor traditions in bloody Essex or Wood Green.
16:04
No one says, "All right, emulate this guy.
16:06
This person is connected."
16:08
You have to find them by chance and by circumstance.
16:10
And some of you don't even know that that's what you need.
16:13
You know, so through my life, once I was switched on to it because of the good fortune of being a drug addict, I became more alert to the possibility of doing it.
16:20
So, I started to look at it like, "I like this guy. I want to emulate him."
16:23
It could be like a comedian like Bill Hicks where like he was sadly already dead by the time I'd become a comedian.
16:29
But, I thought, "I like how he does that."
16:30
And I model myself on that man.
16:32
And like, "Oh, what what does he do?"
16:35
Of course, with, you know, when you're constructing your identity, you everything is about trying to connect to your own essence.
16:41
So, you're not going to, you know, like I'm not from Texas.
16:44
I'm not like I don't use anger in the same way as he does that.
16:47
I mean, there's all sorts of distinctions, you know, and I you know, so you know, my like I a little bit of Kenneth Williams, a little bit of Richard Pryor, a little bit of Peter Cook.
16:56
You just copy the people that you admire and it helps you to become yourself cuz the latent energies within you will be realized if you have the external coordinates to follow, but don't get obsessed or fetishize the external coordinates, in which case you're just mimicking and you won't engage your own essence.
17:12
Yeah, and I'm glad you touched on that.
17:14
What is that difference in your mind on imitation versus emulation.
17:15
Like that mimicking versus actually finding yourself through that process because I I couldn't agree with you more.
17:23
I genuinely feel that we live in a society whereby the pinnacle of success becomes our validation or metric of how we measure ourselves.
17:33
So, right now, for example, you know, Kylie Jenner has become the youngest billionaire in the world at 21.
17:38
Every 21-year-old's going, "Oh god, I'm not a billionaire."
17:42
You know, and it becomes the new pressure.
17:45
So, it becomes the imitation or you see someone who's popular on social media by doing a particular activity.
17:49
You think, "Oh, I need to imitate that to get that result."
17:54
What is that difference between it being a search for self versus a sabotage of self?
17:58
Maharishi Mahesh said, "Discernment is the most important thing. Discernment."
18:03
And then I spoke to Jordan Peterson, and he said, "Judgement."
18:07
So, in a It's interesting, isn't it, that someone like the Maharishi would not say kindness, love, compassion, but would say discernment, knowing what path to follow.
18:14
In terms of mentorship and emulation, I would say inner connection.
18:20
It's very difficult not to want to mimic stars or billionaires, but I would say we must become attuned to what is timeless.
18:31
And economic success is emulating social power.
18:37
It's the idea of oh, like what what can we infer from the wealth of Kylie Jenner, is it? Kylie, yeah. Kylie Jenner.
18:45
Like, is that oh, she's powerful, she can do what she wants, she's made something of her life, she's glamorous, she's potent, she's powerful.
18:52
Like, so the timeless in that is I suppose power.
18:54
The temporal in that is economic success. Oh, it's going to die. It's going to go.
19:01
Kylie Jenner, like all of us, will die. The money will die.
19:04
The globe itself, the entire planet, will die.
19:09
So, if you have spent your time festooning and ornamenting your temporary vehicle instead of the timeless, which is in continual dialogue with the temporal and external, then you have missed the point.
19:23
So, if I sort of say, I like Bill Hicks because Bill Hicks speaks the truth, right?
19:27
And I so I will speak my truth rather than I'm going to wear these clothes and put on this accent, then I've don't learn the wrong lesson.
19:36
You know, and like a lot of times in my own life I learn the wrong lesson.
19:40
I learn, oh, you know, like Hollywood stars, they seem to be above problems and above the filth that I feel contaminated by.
19:48
I'll become a Hollywood star.
19:50
Oh, no, the filth has come with me.
19:51
You know, because I learned the wrong lesson.
19:53
The real lesson, the real work is done inwardly.
19:57
I suppose how to make this evaluation, Jay, would be to This is why I got mentors, cuz you can't always trust yourself.
20:04
I can't always trust myself.
20:06
I'm I still am capable of making dumb decisions. I still want to go.
20:11
I like you say with your seed and weed technique, which I adore.
20:15
I like that I might sort of try and convince myself, that's a seed.
20:16
And I might need someone else to go, that's a weed. You idiot.
20:20
How can you try and sell that as a seed?
20:22
Oh, no, it could be a seed.
20:24
Cuz really what you want to do, you know, power, prestige, privilege, these things all I like them. Part of me wants it.
20:28
I want the glory, the adornment, to be garlanded in wonder, to be kissed and loved and licked.
20:35
But I've been there now, and it's very temporary.
20:41
And yeah, there's that confirmation bias, right?
20:42
We're always trying to find the information that justifies our belief.
20:45
So, if we want to switch and make ourselves feel, oh, no, I am happy doing this because he or she is happy doing it, we find a way. We find a way.
20:53
But what's fascinating about what you've done, and this has genuinely been I think I've wanted to ask you this since we've been friends and known each other.
21:01
And I'm glad I get to ask it to you today because I think it's probably one of the the things to do, genuinely.
21:04
I feel like you're someone who is multiple times reinvented themselves, and not reinvented for the sake of branding or marketing, but in bringing out your truth in different ways. Ooh, thanks.
21:18
That's a good compliment. Right.
21:20
And I'm And I mean I'm saying I'm genuinely saying it.
21:21
Like, I don't think it's been a marketing or branding attempt.
21:24
I believe it's been an attempt to to be authentic and genuine at every moment in the way that I've seen it.
21:30
You You You started off, and we were talking about earlier, you started it off, you were you were, you know, you were the host at Big Brother, the digital edition, etc.
21:36
And then everyone knew you as this, you know, eccentric, crazy, wacky individual, you know, charismatic, captivating.
21:44
And And I've heard people who who worked with you behind the scenes say, "He was extremely charming behind the scenes, too."
21:48
And so it's And there are parts of that which you've kept, and there's parts of that which you let go.
21:53
And then we saw Russell Brand, of course, the actor.
21:55
And then you moved into acting in Hollywood.
21:56
And I know everyone that I speak to in America about you absolutely adores you and loves you for the movies that you made.
22:03
And then we have you coming back and playing a more activist role.
22:08
And then even in politics, and now spirituality and philosophy and culture and society.
22:12
And I feel like that must have been so difficult, because I don't think, and you may see it differently, but from my my point of view, I never really saw you completely step away to come back.
22:24
I never really I see a lot of people, especially celebrities or people who are trying to find their truth and find their why, they kind of go away into hiding.
22:31
And then sometimes they emerge in an interview, and don't always make complete sense, because they're still trying to make sense of what they're finding.
22:38
But you almost have kept your personality and who you are, but then engaged and explored all these fascinating things.
22:45
I've been fortunate this Jay, when you put it like that.
22:47
In a sense, we all have our game, don't we? And our strategies.
22:53
Some of us are attracted to the more high-stakes game, where you could be humiliated, exposed, or attacked, or killed.
23:00
And I think what happened is that even though I in various periods of my life have taken on the tools and ephemera of the culture, i. e.
23:11
I want to be on the TV and dress up and be all famous or I want to go Hollywood or whatever, something in me always knew that these things would pass and are not real and I've kept a healthy dialogue with that, perhaps because I'm an addict and an addict has to be aware of pain continually and otherwise the pain will end in self-destruction.
23:33
So, it wasn't um a conscious, right, I better reinvent myself.
23:39
It was in each case a sort of crisis that felt beyond my control, like just oh well, this isn't working anymore, can't do that no more.
23:47
That's doesn't seem real anymore, not even really cognitive.
23:51
I moved back from America when I fell in love with somebody in England.
23:56
I got Like the thing with politics, for example, was I I remember I feel like I asked myself the question and my mate Gareth that I was working with a lot at the time and what would happen if I just start saying what I actually think about politics and then put it on the internet. What will happen?
24:14
And then I watched what happened and it felt like I'd always felt that.
24:19
Like for take the very obvious example of I said there's no point voting because the the opportunities for change are minimal and ultimately meaningless. I had always felt that.
24:29
That's why I hadn't voted and pretty much everyone I knew felt like I didn't belong to groups of people that were like, well, I'm a Democrat or I'm a Conservative.
24:37
Everyone's like, well, that's just that thing where everyone pretends that ordinary people can have power while these institutions protect their own interests.
24:44
Everyone sort of knew that whether intellectually or just more viscerally.
24:49
So, I started talking about it in the same way of through performance, through comedy cuz the point of comedy in a sense is revelation.
24:55
Revelation of what has previously been concealed.
24:58
That's what is exciting about comedy is that it puts you in touch with an ulterior reality.
25:05
Like that, you know, we know, we suspect, we pray and meditate on that whilst we accept the conditions of this conversation that you're embodying that conscious entity and I'm embodying this conscious entity.
25:15
We both know that they're going to die.
25:16
We wonder what is the energy that's behind it.
25:18
Where will that energy go?
25:19
Of what is that energy comprised?
25:21
How did we end up speaking this language?
25:22
All of these questions fizz invisibly through the air.
25:25
All of these connections are continually being made.
25:28
And I feel that you can apply this metric, this tool, this analytical device to anything.
25:32
You can start saying, "Well, what is politics? Who does it serve? How is it constructed?
25:37
What Why is this this system still in place?
25:38
Why is it not progressed when clearly the technology to change it has evolved?
25:44
Whose interests are being protected?
25:45
Why are these conversations not had?
25:47
Why is this information not conveyed? Why is that you know?"
25:49
And if you start asking those questions, things start to peeling away and peeling away.
25:53
You can ask it of yourself.
25:53
You can ask it of someone you love is a cruel thing to do anyway.
25:56
But or you can ask it of the institutions that are around you.
26:00
So, in a sense, the thing that's, you know, you shed your skin like a serpent, you know, and you sort of go on.
26:05
But like behind it, the energy is the same.
26:10
My belief is while there might be an essential distinction between you and I that you are some very particular expression of the whole and the divine as everyone is, that we are all somehow in continual communion with something that's bigger than us, bigger than this. How could it not be?
26:26
How could our little minds understand all reality?
26:28
How could this be all that there is?
26:30
And how did you get into that?
26:33
Like how did that journey start?
26:34
So, we're talking about all these reinventions, but that particular what, spiritual curiosity? Yeah.
26:39
Where did that come from?
26:39
Like why did they get Drugs. Right.
26:42
Because I think if you start taking drugs, you start thinking, "I'm trying to kill this thing like it's not working for me."
26:48
And if you take things like hallucinogens, the hallucinogens will make you physically experience Oh, no, I'm not me.
26:55
I remember that feeling being quite young, sort of 16. Wow.
26:59
Taking acid and the sort of the horror, actually, the horror because I was not, you know, I was just doing it with other lads.
27:06
I wasn't around bloody gurus. Yeah.
27:09
You know, like so I've just thinking, "Oh, no, I'm not me. I'm not me. This is not good. Who am I then?"
27:15
You know, and there's no one there to go, "That's really beautiful, isn't it, that you're not you because it means that you are everyone and you are everything and all those things you've told yourself and your language and your culture and your gender and your identity are all just biological or social programs that you are exhibiting.
27:29
I just thought, "Bloody hell, whose hands are these?" And it was scary.
27:32
So, but I suppose as I am getting older, I'm becoming You know, in it like at the end of Is it Am I right in saying that at the end of the Gita, like Arjuna is like, "I remember."
27:43
Like in a sense, we know. It's a reawakening. Huh? Yeah, reawakening. Sorry, continue. Continue.
27:50
I was just saying I feel lucky and falls for you. Yeah, unfolds for you.
27:53
And there are moments in life where you are you're the trauma, the rupture, the pain of being alive always will become an opportunity for learning if you're able to do it, if you're able to see it in that way.
28:06
And sometimes in in that pain-based mentality, it's quite difficult to work that trick. Mhm.
28:13
It's quite difficult to go, "You know, what am I supposed to learn here?
28:16
What am I supposed How am I supposed to evolve here?" Mhm.
28:17
Now, one thing I like doing on the podcast is making it really trying to extrapolate from incredible people's lives like yourselves and some practical lessons in that sphere because I feel either if you're watching this or listening to this, you're either on drugs and you've had the same experience.
28:34
I know plenty of people who feel that way.
28:35
So, definitely there's that group of individuals.
28:37
And then there's a group of people that just kind of feel that way just because they've they've realized, "Well, I don't want to be this.
28:43
This can't be all there is."
28:45
And then there's a group of people who are just like, "Oh, well actually that's too far for me to even think about. I'm not even there yet."
28:50
You know, but when you do make that step and you start having originally like you said, you don't have a guru or sage to tell you, "Oh, that's a good feeling."
28:57
You start having these feelings.
28:59
What's the next thing you do?
29:00
Like what what do you do from there? Where do you go?
29:02
Start with the possibility of happiness, I feel.
29:07
I don't agree with whilst you and I have talked before about asceticism.
29:13
You know, and denial of pleasure.
29:13
I feel like the possibility that you can be happy is an interesting thing to invite cuz I think a lot of people just think, "Well, this is life. Life is miserable.
29:22
My mom was beat up by my dad."
29:22
This isn't me personally, I'm just making this up as an example.
29:26
You know, like like I've only ever known misery.
29:29
This like you have to overcome that idea.
29:31
But even the fact that the possibility of happiness exists conceptually in your consciousness is the possibility of its realization.
29:35
Then I feel like you have to accept that you have a problem, i. e.
29:40
something that you want to alter and change.
29:45
Then you have to accept that there is a way of doing it.
29:48
This is where a mentor is useful in hope in the hope that change is possible.
29:53
Then you have to be willing to accept help.
29:55
And I think that can work with any situation, something as evident, chronic, and severe as drugs or so serious eating disorder, or something like, "Oh, I don't like my job anymore."
30:05
Or I don't want to say those kind of things.
30:07
Say me, if I like, you know, if I think, "Maybe I agree with Jay that I don't want to swear." Maybe I think it's bad.
30:16
You know, now I know you don't do it.
30:16
So I think, "Hmm, is it working for Jay? I'll try that."
30:20
You know, so that's an example of how something that's a potential for improvement it could be deployed in my life and I'll maybe try it out and I'll be aware of it and see if it works for me, you know.
30:32
So in a sense like I'm not too Don't be married to the negative aspects of your self-belief.
30:38
You know, if you suddenly don't like something, you can't They you you talk to people sometimes and they go, "Yeah, but I can't change. I'm always like this. Life's like this."
30:46
And like or someone I spoke to and I go He goes, "Yeah, but I don't believe in God in that way.
30:50
I believe God's in relationships."
30:51
I was like, "Yeah, but you're not happy.
30:52
So, [ __ ] your beliefs, excuse my language."
30:57
You know, if your belief's not working for you, let's try something else.
30:58
Let's try something else.
31:00
If it's working, then crack on.
31:03
I love that point about the openness to happiness.
31:05
And And funnily enough, my journey into being a monk and that part of denial was because I believed it would make me more happy.
31:14
So, even then, that was still the seed.
31:16
That was still the focus, the focal point that service was linked to happiness. Yes.
31:23
That selflessness was linked to happiness. about this, Jay.
31:25
You know, when people say I want to be enlightened, is what they're really saying is I want to be happy and I want pleasure and I want to not feel pain.
31:33
And maybe it's not, you know, awful to not want to suffer.
31:35
But, I feel that if you mask the sincerity of your intentions, then you're less likely to achieve them. Totally.
31:47
And also, the way that we avoid the likelihood that our that our journey to happiness or connection or enlightenment or call it what you will, will not be doing what we think is right.
32:03
It's not going to be what we came up with.
32:05
Whilst, of course, all of us I feel carry a kind of barometer that says you like you with the not swearing.
32:11
Something in you told you, "I don't want to do that."
32:12
And you listen to that voice.
32:14
And something in me says, "Yeah, don't look at porn, Russ."
32:18
You know, like it's sort of it's not like I'm not responding to some external puritanical force that's saying don't do it.
32:24
Although, there are enough people that have written down, "Do not objectify sex. It will mess you up."
32:27
You know, people have obviously discovered that for thousands of years, written it down.
32:32
You know, I've ignored it.
32:32
You know, like and like um but like when your inner voice aligns with something like that then you cover possibility of sort of making a meaningful connection. love that.
32:43
I've seen you say that in a video that I saw on your Instagram page recently where you were talking about how how do you feel after you've just done the act?
32:50
Like that's kind of a great reflection process if like for example masturbation.
32:54
It's like how you feel after is a great judge of whether you want it in your life or not. Yeah, if you feel great.
33:00
Maybe there's some people that feel like yeah, no I like it.
33:02
And you know, oh carry on then.
33:04
But like you know, there's obviously such a thing as mental illness.
33:05
There are obviously some people that go around doing the most unbelievable things and it sort of works for them.
33:09
But I feel like as an optimist I have to believe that if we were to approach those people with the light that they would not want to do it.
33:17
You know, I don't feel that people would want to cling on to the murder, the pedophilia if you they had a connection to God. 100%.
33:25
I think people are ready to give up lesser things in any fashion, material or spiritual or energy for higher energy. Me, too.
33:32
What do you think about the thing that Gandhi said ages ago?
33:36
Obviously, quote like it like that you know, there's no point in India getting rid of the British then emulating what the British would do anyway just with Indians in the roles of power.
33:43
He said we've got to break down our country into like his 70,000 villages.
33:47
They should all be autonomous and we've got to let go of our love of gadgets and stuff.
33:51
He was saying this before we were you know, spending our whole life staring at screens.
33:57
You know, like you're saying we we at some point you've got to let go of those low lower pressures, those low those low vibrational pleasures.
34:05
And that's the thing is because people haven't been exposed to higher energy most of all in their life.
34:08
And I see it everywhere I go.
34:10
I'm just I look back and I'm like I'm so fortunate that I met someone of really high energy really early in my life.
34:16
And that's kind of what I feel like what I'm trying to do is is just how can I expose people to great energy early in their life because then they at least know it exists.
34:25
It's almost like I was I was And this is a totally different context, but I was speaking to a big media company recently and they were saying how they know that when they make celebrity gossip, etc.
34:35
it gets big views and big likes and big shares, but one of them is a bit more conscious and intentional and pushed a very important piece around mental health and reform and recovery, and when they did that, the views went even higher.
34:48
And she was just saying that actually taking a more highbrow attempt at media, taking a stance, having an opinion that wasn't necessarily diving into our lower desires to just learn about gossip and sex and all the issues, actually brought people into it.
35:02
And so, it's interesting how we sell people short through what we create. That's a cool point.
35:06
I mean, like our sort of love of God or truth or purity or whatever you want to call it, it shouldn't just be like supporting a football team.
35:14
It's just oh, I like this one, this is the one I've happened upon.
35:17
It's because it actually will work.
35:17
You know, you have to actually believe.
35:19
Like and like I understand empirically with drugs, no Russell, don't take drugs, it won't do what you think it's going to do.
35:28
It will temporarily distract you from the pain and then the pain will be even worse.
35:31
Like it's a harder lesson to learn around sex.
35:33
It's harder to go, no, don't have sex, you will feel worse afterwards, except obviously within in my case in a happy monogamous relationship.
35:41
Like so, but and then even more hard to learn, oh, don't go out and try and adorn yourself with sort of glory and you know, expensive garb or care too much about what people say.
35:52
You sort of keep thinking it will work.
35:54
And obviously as that example suggests, people do think no, looking at this, you know, video that says we might catch a glimpse up someone's skirt or hear some scintillating bit of tittle-tattle.
36:05
You know, it still kind of works and it's but but we are right. We are right.
36:09
Like you can't get past hate with more hate.
36:16
You can't get past lust with more lust, but within love, within some pure consciousness, it must be housing all of it.
36:22
But but the time is resting on timelessness.
36:25
But if you can somehow get by it, if you can get by it, it will be more powerful.
36:29
That's I suppose what faith is. Mhm. Well said. Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.
36:37
So, I'm going to go into We've got 5 minutes.
36:39
I'm going to get into the final five questions that I always do in the last 5 minutes. in. Nick The final five.
36:45
And now it's time for the terminal 20.
36:49
Unique item on Under the Skin.
36:49
Yeah, so I'm going to go into these five questions.
36:52
So, I actually for this segment I went went to Google because I love seeing what really trust Google? trust Google.
36:59
I like I like I like knowing what I like knowing what the masses are thinking about. Right.
37:04
It's a temperature-taking device.
37:07
Yeah, it it helps me really understand they're listening to us? Google? They better be. Mhm. Right.
37:14
Otherwise, what are we doing?
37:14
Yeah, that's why we're wasting our life, okay.
37:16
So, the the question was We've We've answered this one.
37:19
We're going to skip this one.
37:20
So, this one is Is Russell Brand married?
37:22
That's one of the most Googled things.
37:24
Yes, to my wife Laura Brand, by coincidence.
37:29
Uh this is another What is Russell Brand's IQ?
37:30
Well, I think I like to think I'm quite clever. I think people do, too.
37:33
That's a question that people But, that Have you done an IQ test?
37:35
It's mostly to do with triangles, isn't it?
37:39
Put this triangle over there. Now what? Did they? What is it?
37:42
What happened on the Tuesday?
37:44
So, I like to think I've got a high IQ, but there's quite a lot of daily demonstrations of stupidity.
37:47
I would have to be honest.
37:51
Well, I remember when the Guardian put you in as the fourth most Oh, yeah.
37:54
No clever person in the world.
37:58
Cleverest person in the world.
37:58
Yeah, that's good, wasn't it? In the world.
37:59
Yeah, that's good, wasn't it?
37:59
Yeah, that's Cuz there was like Thomas Piketty, Naomi Klein, probably like Yanis Varoufakis, like proper like political leaders, ecologists. And you're number four. Us. Yeah, it's amazing. Quite right. that. Why am I not number one?
38:12
That's what I thought at the time. I love it. Okay.
38:17
Uh that was Yeah, that was the the Russell Brand IQ question.
38:18
I love this bit of the show, the way. Oh, good. Thanks.
38:23
This is really really tapping into my ego. Thank you. Is Russell Brand vegan? He tries. He's a nice guy. Yeah.
38:30
I like I mean like what happens with me is uh eggs.
38:33
Like you know, but like I try to take them in the kindest way. Yeah.
38:36
Uh I what I do is I reach into the chicken just before it's ready. No, I don't do that.
38:42
And like and like and like sometimes like you know, I sometimes like a little buttery snack. I'm so sorry.
38:48
I Vegans are definitely right.
38:50
I'm not arguing that they I'm not saying what's the point of being vegan. Vegans are correct. Are you vegan? I am. Of course you are. Look at your eyes. You disgust me.
38:57
I remember when you interviewed the Happy Pear, too. Oh, I love those men.
39:00
Those men are beautiful, man. You've got to be vegan.
39:02
You can't argue with whether or not you should be vegan.
39:03
You know, like people do No, you've got to eat just eat like some people are taking it to extremes. I only eat meat now. What?
39:09
I won't even have salad with it. No way.
39:11
But like for me, you've got to be vegan for the planet, for yourself, for every reason.
39:15
The trouble is, you know, eggs. And cakes.
39:20
Yeah, weakness, general weakness.
39:20
But I'm heading that way.
39:21
Perfect me will be vegan.
39:23
I And and the last one is what is Russell Brand up to now? Gosh, what is he doing?
39:27
Well, I am uh what I'm doing at the moment is being a father to my daughters, a husband to my wife, and work has become of secondary importance to me.
39:38
But I do The thing that was there in the first place that got me into all that trouble and all of those adventures is still there. It's not gone anywhere.
39:48
It will need to some point manifest itself, and I'm just trying to prepare myself so that when next time it does it, it doesn't lead to me sort of being destroyed in some way or causing suffering.
40:01
I want it to realize itself benevolently, and I feel that the only way to do that is to try to avoid making the decision or allowing it to migrate towards the ego.
40:09
Even things I start with the best intentions, I choose.
40:13
Sometimes the ego gets hold of it.
40:15
It's very crafty, the ego's in it.
40:18
But that's But that's the best thing that we have to try, because otherwise we don't even see it. Mhm.
40:22
And And we would often talk about in the monastery that when you're not doing anything out of the ordinary, it's easy to think you're humble. Oh.
40:31
When you're not actually pushing the boundary.
40:32
Like if you sit alone all day, everyone will think they're humble.
40:33
But it's when you go out there and you do something, like, "Oh, wow, I've got a big ego. I need to work on that." Right.
40:39
if you don't activate, it's easy to start getting comfortable and think, "Oh, I'm quite enlightened, aren't I? I'm quite realized."
40:44
But you've actually just neutralized.
40:46
You're not engaged with the worldly things. I like that. Thank you. Anyway, awesome. Thank you, Russell.
40:50
And I want people to go and, of course, buy the book Mentors, which I'm fascinated to read. Can't wait to read it.
40:55
Anything you'd like to mention on Mentors?
40:58
Just uh no, you can do what you want with that. And buy it and read it. And get Mentors.
41:01
You don't even need to buy it or read it. You could nick it.
41:03
Or you could get the information. Just get a mentor.
41:06
Uh and that Netflix thing. Yes, absolutely.
41:09
But by now that's been and gone. It's February.
41:11
I'm going to push that early anyway. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I want to push it early. podcast, Under the Skin.
41:14
And see how we gracefully steal that last bit.
41:17
And when I go, "Okay, now it's the top final five questions." I just I don't know.
41:21
I just like to go on Google, I guess. I've always liked it.
41:24
So, these are the top five Yahoo suggestions. Sponsored by Yahoo. Yeah. No, I love it. Thank you, Russell. I'm so grateful. Thank you, mate.
41:35
Thank you for sharing your stories. Cheers, mate. Thank you for asking. Thank you.
41:38
If you want even more videos just like this one, click on the boxes over here.
41:43
And if you want to continue seeing these kinds of stories, you can subscribe by clicking the link right here.